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Re: Re: Testosterone Tumbling in American Males

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yes i was born with both testiclesv undescended till

my operation at 22 i only admitted i had undescended

testicle when i had a major breakdown at that time

but i am not sire you aree correct on secondarryt or

primary,for a start from what i have seen some people

can have both,dont know one worrks out the blood tests

on those as surely fsh and lh are high on primary and

low on secondary ,but on website it said you can have

both,so maybe i am primary and secondary also i dont

think i have ever been told primary is somtyhing you

are born with and seciodary you gwet laterr in life

if someone on here can help us ion this as i have

never heard of that,my assu,mtion wasa both secondary

and primary can be casued at any age by any number of

factors.

again i cant get on trt quick its just not possilbe as

first i am testing out ritalin ,and also i have no

endo ,and the endo who diagonsied me with partial

androgen deficieny onbly did so to fob me off ,his

ideas on hypogonadism he was saying to me with low fsh

and lh and testosterone that would indicate all is

well,hypogonadism lh and fsh would be abnormally

high!!

so in other words this guy was totally clueless,and i

dont intend to put myself in the hands of someone who

is totally clueless,i am sure on diabetes he is ace,i

nothice the hopsital has a ward named after him so he

must be well resepcted in thst area but testosterone

he is not,he is who one is sent to by local

doctors,there is little choice unless you pay for

it,something i cant afford to do even if i was willing

there is no proff that trt or ritalin will help me but

for now ritalin is the prime things,its the adhd side

of me that i need sorting the sexual side i just want

to be rid of partilly becasue the help in uk is so

poor unless you can pay,trt on its own many on here

dont advoctate,yet thats what the endo wanted!

so for now its full on for ritalin and dont ant

anything else affecting me so i dont know whats

actually helping me gain the conentration or energy

and so on,yes trt may benefit me ,but on its own may

cause other problems ,if and when we get some decent

endos locally or even nationally in the NHS in uk then

i will reconsider if other things have not helped me

as for erections 10 minuites in one go i have nevr

managed ,and sexual intercourse i have never

managed,it never gets hard enough,sometimes even

wanking is so long winded and i sometimes with my adhd

think of something esle and erection goes just like

that,so concentrating to maintain an erection is also

part of the problems add to that aspies and adhd

people dont oftem like relationshipos ans are

loners,dont like being touched by others,have problems

with actual co ordination[in sex a lot of good co ord

is needed] so for me the whole relationships and

sex/commitments and respnsibities is as much an issue

as just the errections and pensi issues.

my penis is thin and is about 11.5 cms at its longest

fullish erection but when not erect i am left

sometimes with just a piece of foekskin and not a lot

esle

again doc says " it your wieght and size "

never mind i tell him its like that at 12/13 yrs of

age ,at 19 or so when i was perfect size and

shape/weight,they just dont listen

this is my past doc,i must admit my new doc she does

her best but its not easy even for her to get the

things i want.

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> , I was under the impression, you were born with

> an undescended testis ( a cause of primary

> hypogonadism), and it was never treated properly

> like myself.

>

> Secondary males have lived a healthy life until

> something went unbalanced causing hypogandism. Those

> males have experienced careers, relationships,

> children, etc. They also can be corrected with

> higher success than primary males.

>

> If you feel you are secondary, , please get on

> TRT! Your pains can lessen. Lack of DHT may be the

> cause of your small penis, but if you are thick and

> can last more than 10 minutes, that indictates a

> mature penis around 6 inches, which is pleasureable

> toward the typical female.

>

> ED, etc indicates the penis is less mature caused by

> a number of medical elements. My view and I know its

> correct. ED studies have always been driven in the

> wrong directions; direction of profit over

> correction and cures.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new

> beta.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

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Guest guest

yes i was born with both testiclesv undescended till

my operation at 22 i only admitted i had undescended

testicle when i had a major breakdown at that time

but i am not sire you aree correct on secondarryt or

primary,for a start from what i have seen some people

can have both,dont know one worrks out the blood tests

on those as surely fsh and lh are high on primary and

low on secondary ,but on website it said you can have

both,so maybe i am primary and secondary also i dont

think i have ever been told primary is somtyhing you

are born with and seciodary you gwet laterr in life

if someone on here can help us ion this as i have

never heard of that,my assu,mtion wasa both secondary

and primary can be casued at any age by any number of

factors.

again i cant get on trt quick its just not possilbe as

first i am testing out ritalin ,and also i have no

endo ,and the endo who diagonsied me with partial

androgen deficieny onbly did so to fob me off ,his

ideas on hypogonadism he was saying to me with low fsh

and lh and testosterone that would indicate all is

well,hypogonadism lh and fsh would be abnormally

high!!

so in other words this guy was totally clueless,and i

dont intend to put myself in the hands of someone who

is totally clueless,i am sure on diabetes he is ace,i

nothice the hopsital has a ward named after him so he

must be well resepcted in thst area but testosterone

he is not,he is who one is sent to by local

doctors,there is little choice unless you pay for

it,something i cant afford to do even if i was willing

there is no proff that trt or ritalin will help me but

for now ritalin is the prime things,its the adhd side

of me that i need sorting the sexual side i just want

to be rid of partilly becasue the help in uk is so

poor unless you can pay,trt on its own many on here

dont advoctate,yet thats what the endo wanted!

so for now its full on for ritalin and dont ant

anything else affecting me so i dont know whats

actually helping me gain the conentration or energy

and so on,yes trt may benefit me ,but on its own may

cause other problems ,if and when we get some decent

endos locally or even nationally in the NHS in uk then

i will reconsider if other things have not helped me

as for erections 10 minuites in one go i have nevr

managed ,and sexual intercourse i have never

managed,it never gets hard enough,sometimes even

wanking is so long winded and i sometimes with my adhd

think of something esle and erection goes just like

that,so concentrating to maintain an erection is also

part of the problems add to that aspies and adhd

people dont oftem like relationshipos ans are

loners,dont like being touched by others,have problems

with actual co ordination[in sex a lot of good co ord

is needed] so for me the whole relationships and

sex/commitments and respnsibities is as much an issue

as just the errections and pensi issues.

my penis is thin and is about 11.5 cms at its longest

fullish erection but when not erect i am left

sometimes with just a piece of foekskin and not a lot

esle

again doc says " it your wieght and size "

never mind i tell him its like that at 12/13 yrs of

age ,at 19 or so when i was perfect size and

shape/weight,they just dont listen

this is my past doc,i must admit my new doc she does

her best but its not easy even for her to get the

things i want.

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> , I was under the impression, you were born with

> an undescended testis ( a cause of primary

> hypogonadism), and it was never treated properly

> like myself.

>

> Secondary males have lived a healthy life until

> something went unbalanced causing hypogandism. Those

> males have experienced careers, relationships,

> children, etc. They also can be corrected with

> higher success than primary males.

>

> If you feel you are secondary, , please get on

> TRT! Your pains can lessen. Lack of DHT may be the

> cause of your small penis, but if you are thick and

> can last more than 10 minutes, that indictates a

> mature penis around 6 inches, which is pleasureable

> toward the typical female.

>

> ED, etc indicates the penis is less mature caused by

> a number of medical elements. My view and I know its

> correct. ED studies have always been driven in the

> wrong directions; direction of profit over

> correction and cures.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new

> beta.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

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Guest guest

dont you produce anyt sperm then ??

i do ok not a lot but it is actually fertisle or was

when it was teste couple of yrs back anyway

but again fertility is not an issue with me o dont

ever intend to reproduce even if was able to have a

suecessful relationshio with intercourse which i doubt

regards paul

>

> If your testis was never able to produce sperm Phil,

> you will always lack. TRT cannot stop my testis from

> producing what they haven't being able to.

>

> Thanks Mr Phil for trying.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on

> Small Business.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Hey , having an unscended testis or both is one of the main causes of

primary hypogonadism and not secondary hypogandism. Thus, why I think you are

primary like myself. Its little doctors can do for primary males because the

medications and technology isnt yet available. Its also not profitable thus why

research isnt seen as ideal.

=======================================================

Secondary = Problem within the brain that can be successfully treated.

Primary = Non functioning testis or testicles that cannot be successfully

treated.

=======================================================

Tricking the body in thinking TRT is actually T isn't successfully treating why

the testicles won't function normally.

========================================================

The causes a normal healthy male can become primary is limited.

I hope that ADHD stimulate works . I see you are putting allot of stock into

that medication. Dont feel its a " cure " . Continued therapy and hopefully TRT

will still be needed. Its up to you also .

We cannot forget what we went thru from being unhealthy, but now we are more

researched and knowledgeable, its up to us to present new ideas to doctors,

rather than allowing doctors to solely dictate our avenues of redemption.

Print out, using MS Word and Spell Check and if not, use the free Abiword word

processor (google.com " Abiword " ) all you feel may be needed in your improved

health. Present it to doctors and email a couple as well. I do it and have been

shot down, but that didnt stop me.

Still, I have other options I explore rather than feeling bad because a doctor

isnt willing to offer different avenues. Its up to you to present whatever you

feel is needed to any doctor.

---------------------------------

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I never had a sperm test, where I had to .... into a tube. My doctors indicated

from other tests my level of hypogonadism. I knew being born with an unscended

testis, that primary hypogandism wasn't incorrect. Cannot wait until testis

cancer and prostate problems......

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: dont you produce anyt sperm then ??

i do ok not a lot but it is actually fertisle or was

when it was teste couple of yrs back anyway

but again fertility is not an issue with me o dont

ever intend to reproduce even if was able to have a

suecessful relationshio with intercourse which i doubt

regards paul

>

> If your testis was never able to produce sperm Phil,

> you will always lack. TRT cannot stop my testis from

> producing what they haven't being able to.

>

> Thanks Mr Phil for trying.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on

> Small Business.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

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Guest guest

but having undescended testicles can cause primary or

secondary according to info on here and by others,some

will get one and some the other.

in other worrds you are saying i dont have

hypogonadism secondary therefore not hypogonadism at

all becaseu my lh and fsh do not indicate primary

so i must just be low t andropause and not any

hypgonoadism ,i am gettting very confused by this,my

blood shows secondary definately not primary.

as far as i am aware scondary or primary can happen at

any time you can be primary all your life or

secondary,its just a case of where the damage is.

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey , having an unscended testis or both is one

> of the main causes of primary hypogonadism and not

> secondary hypogandism. Thus, why I think you are

> primary like myself. Its little doctors can do for

> primary males because the medications and technology

> isnt yet available. Its also not profitable thus why

> research isnt seen as ideal.

>

=======================================================

> Secondary = Problem within the brain that can be

> successfully treated.

> Primary = Non functioning testis or testicles that

> cannot be successfully treated.

>

=======================================================

> Tricking the body in thinking TRT is actually T

> isn't successfully treating why the testicles won't

> function normally.

>

========================================================

> The causes a normal healthy male can become primary

> is limited.

>

> I hope that ADHD stimulate works . I see you are

> putting allot of stock into that medication. Dont

> feel its a " cure " . Continued therapy and hopefully

> TRT will still be needed. Its up to you also .

>

> We cannot forget what we went thru from being

> unhealthy, but now we are more researched and

> knowledgeable, its up to us to present new ideas to

> doctors, rather than allowing doctors to solely

> dictate our avenues of redemption.

>

> Print out, using MS Word and Spell Check and if not,

> use the free Abiword word processor (google.com

> " Abiword " ) all you feel may be needed in your

> improved health. Present it to doctors and email a

> couple as well. I do it and have been shot down, but

> that didnt stop me.

>

> Still, I have other options I explore rather than

> feeling bad because a doctor isnt willing to offer

> different avenues. Its up to you to present whatever

> you feel is needed to any doctor.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low

> PC-to-Phone call rates.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

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Hey , Im not saying anything in replace of a trained Endrocrine Specialist.

I can only comment and share based on what I have researched and experienced. I

stated an undescended testis regardless if brought down or not, is one of the

primary causes of testiclar failure.

Some males pre puberty while on HCG have success keeping hypogoandism under

control and living a normal testosterone functioning life.

I never had the option in taking HCG before puberty nor TRT.

Secondary hypogandism, happens after puberty. The body has matured and went thru

the puberty cycle making the testis function normally, until something from the

brain off sets.

I dont have a problem in the brain. An undescended testis isnt one of secondary

causes.

It seems you are still a bit confused on your health . Perhaps, you are not

asking the right questions during your visits at whom ever you see for low T.

If you are researching or just taking what ever folks in here type without

allowing what you have learned to be expressed toward a trained professional,

the chances you over coming, is limited.

No one in here should be a trained professional that has all the answers in

which you seek. Allot of words I read of assistance, I researched after reading

it in here.

I just didnt take the words as valid, I had to learn what they meant toward my

situation. If I present anything to a doctor, I try to make sure I am very well

prepared.

, once again Testiclar Failure is the failure of the testis or both, to

produce hormone or sperm.

Blood tests and patient medical history, concludes if a male is secondary or

primary.

Steroids for example, can cause primary hypogoandism. Steroids is a medication

that is abused, causing damage.

Certain medications can cause secondary or primary hypogandism. Along with other

elements, you should have researched as I did.

I told my Endo specialist, I had surgery at 10, for an undescended testis, and

wasnt treated for any side effects that were still active. He concluded that

information with simple blood tests and his personal trained medical knowledge,

that I have testiclar failure.

I researched those blood tests and still do todate. I didn't just take his

words, I researched in why. I knew how.

, I understand your learning disabilities, but you must over come. I hope

you are or have been professionally trained in controling them from professional

trained individuals who specialize in adult learning disabilities.

I wasn't trained in dealing with mine, and for that I suffered with a lack of

education, but I don't let others see that. Given, I never knew why I was me, I

couldnt have seeked help, but now I am. I will be communicating with the

Learning Disability services in my city. I will also take another test to

conclude the level of my disabilities.

I am in a program that allocates funds no more than 825 per semister for

college. This program helps those with emotional, learning, and other

disabilities. How I found out? Word of mouth and reserch. I had to then go in

and apply.

All of this can help me now, given I have swallowed my pride and have made my

health more public. I still deal with lonliness and social withdraw, but I still

have faith, that I can over come. Now, its up to extreme therapy to over come

all those years of living emotionally and sexually unbalanced.

Its very hard for me to over come, but Im willing and have allot of avenues

around me for further assistance. Im good with PCs, I have to study when I do,

harder than most. Same if I went to college, now on TRT. I would have to learn

how to study as a person with disabilities. Luckly, most colleges have services

for disabilities with trained compassionate professionals.

Given, I never had a GF, Im very concerned in how I will handle being around

females if I go back to school. Will they make me horrible inside or now on, TRT

can I simply over come and focus? I wont know until I........

I realized, a person in a wheel chair isnt so different from myself. That person

may have no learning disabilities nor emotional, outside of the chair, but that

person cannot walk and may be lonely as I am.

If you cannot help yourself now, you cannot blame anyone else . If I can

find information within your country and area within your budget, so can you,

but you have to want it.

---------------------------------

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Hey Nort, and thanks for sharing. Im sorry you felt me sharing with , was

complaining. I felt if I shared and he did, we could find a common ground of

support. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt.

I cannot exclude what I have been thru, given its my life of prior and present.

Once again, I didnt know I had testiclar failure until last year. I seeked help

for emotional difficulties because I felt it was time and I couldnt continue to

be treated as a liability at work, or a non functioning human else where.

Depression treatment lead to me speaking up and saying I have abnormal fat

around my cheat area. From there, I was referred toward the Endocrine

Department. This was three years ago. That department didnt know what was the

problem, this after a year, one surgery, and numerous blood work, etc.

I then found a center locally, and once again seeked treatment so I wouldnt have

to suffer. So, I give myself credit for learning I had a problem and then

seeking treatment.

So, you may not give me credit for finding out just last year, the same time I

found this site I have testiclar failure. I have been taking steps in over

coming. I cant paint a picture of success and happiness, because I havent

experienced it yet, but I have faith that I will, and thats something I am

trying to show he can experience.

I let self doubt about my size get in the way of potential relationships. That I

must live with forever. I am learning how to over come and accept now. Being on

TRT have helped allot. Now, I am not controled by the horrible depression. I

still deal with issues of social withdraw, etc but luckly they are solely

non-medicated issues. I have faith, in time therapy and my personal empowerment

can over come.

I realize also, if I stop taking TRT, the side effects that have controled will

come back.

Im sorry once again, you felt my story was being exploited. Given, allot of

males experienced or currently many side effects from hypogandism, I felt why

not share. Geesh, its not my fault my situation is a bit worst than others.

My parents and doctors missed my emotional difficulties and learning and

conluded I was either lazy or stupid. Not every parent can be Vickie and have

the best professionals including herself, point out the visional.

I have been thru allot and I dont make it a primary thing to share, but if

anything I experienced can help someone like , then its worth sharing. I

have always been compassionate toward others, without judgement and I hope you

can learn also. I have no doubt that I can be successful and married, but right

now, I am doing what any human being would do once realized of a health problem.

Unfortunately, its a long proccess, that I am combating alone. Show some

compassion instead of reading only the negative from my words.

Im glad you are alive and have been treated Nort. Take care.

---------------------------------

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yes i too am doing things to sort things out but i

dont beleive i will marry have kids and even ever work

again

i dont see weither you or me complaining as such just

telling it like it is.

it would be differant if both of us were doing nothing

at all about our prroblems,but we are not both

attacking the issues yes in differant ways and sadly

one has to fight to get anything done,these issues we

cant do on oure own,we cant give ourr own drugs we

need doctors to support us.

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey Nort, and thanks for sharing. Im sorry you felt

> me sharing with , was complaining. I felt if I

> shared and he did, we could find a common ground of

> support. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt.

>

> I cannot exclude what I have been thru, given its my

> life of prior and present. Once again, I didnt know

> I had testiclar failure until last year. I seeked

> help for emotional difficulties because I felt it

> was time and I couldnt continue to be treated as a

> liability at work, or a non functioning human else

> where.

>

> Depression treatment lead to me speaking up and

> saying I have abnormal fat around my cheat area.

> From there, I was referred toward the Endocrine

> Department. This was three years ago. That

> department didnt know what was the problem, this

> after a year, one surgery, and numerous blood work,

> etc.

>

> I then found a center locally, and once again seeked

> treatment so I wouldnt have to suffer. So, I give

> myself credit for learning I had a problem and then

> seeking treatment.

>

> So, you may not give me credit for finding out just

> last year, the same time I found this site I have

> testiclar failure. I have been taking steps in over

> coming. I cant paint a picture of success and

> happiness, because I havent experienced it yet, but

> I have faith that I will, and thats something I am

> trying to show he can experience.

>

>

> I let self doubt about my size get in the way of

> potential relationships. That I must live with

> forever. I am learning how to over come and accept

> now. Being on TRT have helped allot. Now, I am not

> controled by the horrible depression. I still deal

> with issues of social withdraw, etc but luckly they

> are solely non-medicated issues. I have faith, in

> time therapy and my personal empowerment can over

> come.

>

> I realize also, if I stop taking TRT, the side

> effects that have controled will come back.

>

>

> Im sorry once again, you felt my story was being

> exploited. Given, allot of males experienced or

> currently many side effects from hypogandism, I felt

> why not share. Geesh, its not my fault my situation

> is a bit worst than others.

>

>

> My parents and doctors missed my emotional

> difficulties and learning and conluded I was either

> lazy or stupid. Not every parent can be Vickie and

> have the best professionals including herself, point

> out the visional.

>

>

> I have been thru allot and I dont make it a primary

> thing to share, but if anything I experienced can

> help someone like , then its worth sharing. I

> have always been compassionate toward others,

> without judgement and I hope you can learn also. I

> have no doubt that I can be successful and married,

> but right now, I am doing what any human being would

> do once realized of a health problem.

>

>

> Unfortunately, its a long proccess, that I am

> combating alone. Show some compassion instead of

> reading only the negative from my words.

>

> Im glad you are alive and have been treated Nort.

> Take care.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new

> beta.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

___________________________________________________________

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well with my low t low lh and low fsh that should

indiacate secondary but i had an operation at 22 to

descend both testicles,i went thoriugh some parts ofd

puberty but not all,so surely this means not a total

testicular failure but could happily indicate the

sesondary hypogonadism

i think the research is still too new to come to any

real conclusions on all this,how many men with

undescended testicles have been researched??

in one gruop we did a poll on sexual charecteristics

on undescended testicles aksing age of discovery,any

hormone treatment or op before age of 12 and other

issues icluidng how many had one undescenddd and how

many had two,how many had ops after puberty

the result showed both testicles undescendd to be the

rarer cases ,and in males who had not had ops till

after 22 with no hrt in childhood the odd thing was

that we all had esxessiv body hair!!

so both undescended and very hairy not operated till

after 22.

so some puberty things went mad ie i look like a

blooody gorrila,my hands and feet as well as penis are

very small comapred to an averae man.

i agree undescended testicle may be a prime casue of

primarry hypogonadism but but that does not in itslef

disvcount secoindary for some people

i am testiment to that my figures are secondary,i cant

be primary if i wss my fsh and lh would be higher.

i did see at least one sight saying undescended

testicles is also a prime reason for hypogonadism

sencondary or primary and indeedd somehow one can even

have both!!

my only offiical diagnosis is partial andrrogen

deficinecy but what do i expect from a guy who

specialises in diabetes that will do as i cant afford

money to get a private diagnosis,even the cheapeer

ones i know of are too much

regards paul

my voice did break and once i found out what semen was

at age 18 i found yes i could produce it,but it was

always a dam hard and sometihmes uncomfortable thing

to do

prbably not that many,

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey , Im not saying anything in replace of a

> trained Endrocrine Specialist.

>

> I can only comment and share based on what I have

> researched and experienced. I stated an undescended

> testis regardless if brought down or not, is one of

> the primary causes of testiclar failure.

>

> Some males pre puberty while on HCG have success

> keeping hypogoandism under control and living a

> normal testosterone functioning life.

>

> I never had the option in taking HCG before puberty

> nor TRT.

>

> Secondary hypogandism, happens after puberty. The

> body has matured and went thru the puberty cycle

> making the testis function normally, until something

> from the brain off sets.

>

> I dont have a problem in the brain. An undescended

> testis isnt one of secondary causes.

>

> It seems you are still a bit confused on your health

> . Perhaps, you are not asking the right

> questions during your visits at whom ever you see

> for low T.

> If you are researching or just taking what ever

> folks in here type without allowing what you have

> learned to be expressed toward a trained

> professional, the chances you over coming, is

> limited.

>

> No one in here should be a trained professional that

> has all the answers in which you seek. Allot of

> words I read of assistance, I researched after

> reading it in here.

>

> I just didnt take the words as valid, I had to learn

> what they meant toward my situation. If I present

> anything to a doctor, I try to make sure I am very

> well prepared.

>

>

>

> , once again Testiclar Failure is the failure of

> the testis or both, to produce hormone or sperm.

>

> Blood tests and patient medical history, concludes

> if a male is secondary or primary.

>

> Steroids for example, can cause primary

> hypogoandism. Steroids is a medication that is

> abused, causing damage.

>

> Certain medications can cause secondary or primary

> hypogandism. Along with other elements, you should

> have researched as I did.

>

> I told my Endo specialist, I had surgery at 10, for

> an undescended testis, and wasnt treated for any

> side effects that were still active. He concluded

> that information with simple blood tests and his

> personal trained medical knowledge, that I have

> testiclar failure.

>

> I researched those blood tests and still do todate.

> I didn't just take his words, I researched in why. I

> knew how.

>

> , I understand your learning disabilities, but

> you must over come. I hope you are or have been

> professionally trained in controling them from

> professional trained individuals who specialize in

> adult learning disabilities.

>

> I wasn't trained in dealing with mine, and for that

> I suffered with a lack of education, but I don't let

> others see that. Given, I never knew why I was me,

> I couldnt have seeked help, but now I am. I will be

> communicating with the Learning Disability services

> in my city. I will also take another test to

> conclude the level of my disabilities.

>

> I am in a program that allocates funds no more than

> 825 per semister for college. This program helps

> those with emotional, learning, and other

> disabilities. How I found out? Word of mouth and

> reserch. I had to then go in and apply.

>

> All of this can help me now, given I have swallowed

> my pride and have made my health more public. I

> still deal with lonliness and social withdraw, but I

> still have faith, that I can over come. Now, its up

> to extreme therapy to over come all those years of

> living emotionally and sexually unbalanced.

>

> Its very hard for me to over come, but Im willing

> and have allot of avenues around me for further

> assistance. Im good with PCs, I have to study when I

> do, harder than most. Same if I went to college, now

> on TRT. I would have to learn how to study as a

> person with disabilities. Luckly, most colleges have

> services for disabilities with trained compassionate

> professionals.

>

> Given, I never had a GF, Im very concerned in how I

> will handle being around females if I go back to

> school. Will they make me horrible inside or now on,

> TRT can I simply over come and focus? I wont know

> until I........

>

> I realized, a person in a wheel chair isnt so

> different from myself. That person may have no

> learning disabilities nor emotional, outside of the

> chair, but that person cannot walk and may be lonely

> as I am.

>

> If you cannot help yourself now, you cannot blame

> anyone else . If I can find information within

> your country and area within your budget, so can

> you, but you have to want it.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on

> Small Business.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

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Hey , every person have the right to express and I guess, that gentleman

felt contradicting and enmity was ideal.

, not every soul is going to see our process. Most won't in fact. Most is

still thinking how can an undescended testis cause what you blame for your life

being unbalanced and unhealthy. My Mom refuses to research and thinks Im full of

......

So, Im cutting once again family until my situations improve. Folks refuse to

research nor put themselves within our journeys. It's cool, every person has

their own life to lead.

I give you much credit . I know you can further over come and I know how

difficult it is to amend elements within your life. Continue to seek treatment

. Have you tried online dating services? I have but its complex to continue

and explain why Im out-of-work and why Im me.

Let a female you feel profound towards either accept your size and dispositions

or not. Every female is different in what she likes and dislikes. If she doesnt,

its not the end of the world, even if it feels that way. Move on, and play the

percentages. You are a descent guy that deserves happiness, same as me.

Perhaps, once you feel content with your self, you can show others you deserve

better.

Lets trade. You can have brittney Spears, and I'll take that Corrine Baily Rae.

I'll throw in the porn version of spears also. Oh, and tell Corrine her hubby

STAYS in England!

---------------------------------

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Hey again , I hope you are secondary. If you think you are secondary, why

are you not on HCG along with TRT? If HCG works, that means your testicles

weren't damage rather a problem with the testes sending the signal to produce to

your brain.

My LH and FSH will be forever low because my testis cannot produce enough sperm

for normal function. It happens.

Maybe when ever I get a date and hopes it gets serious, I can try inexpensive

fertility medication to try and father a child which I deserve.

I am not sure if HCG can raise my levels a bit while on whatever fertility

medication. I have checked my LH and FSH levels while on TRT and they seem to

get worst or steady without raising, which I suspected.

I wouldnt mind being slim. Hopefully, by spring I can buy cool formal clothes at

Sears. Im sure to get a look or two on the trains. Maybe I'll finally score.

Are you a professional Chef?

Looking forward in seeing the new Bond movie?

---------------------------------

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Thanks Vickie. I forgot to add the relation. I stated the risk is present in

having such cancers, but of course, that risk varies between males. Cancer is

scary and Im sorry your husband has been scared Vickie.

---------------------------------

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Hi Elliot and if you guys need to talk just to each other why not just

Emale each other. Most of your posts seem personal to me don't take this the

wrong way just a suggestion.

Phil

ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

Hey , every person have the right to express and I guess, that

gentleman felt contradicting and enmity was ideal.

, not every soul is going to see our process. Most won't in fact. Most is

still thinking how can an undescended testis cause what you blame for your life

being unbalanced and unhealthy. My Mom refuses to research and thinks Im full of

......

So, Im cutting once again family until my situations improve. Folks refuse to

research nor put themselves within our journeys. It's cool, every person has

their own life to lead.

I give you much credit . I know you can further over come and I know how

difficult it is to amend elements within your life. Continue to seek treatment

. Have you tried online dating services? I have but its complex to continue

and explain why Im out-of-work and why Im me.

Let a female you feel profound towards either accept your size and dispositions

or not. Every female is different in what she likes and dislikes. If she doesnt,

its not the end of the world, even if it feels that way. Move on, and play the

percentages. You are a descent guy that deserves happiness, same as me.

Perhaps, once you feel content with your self, you can show others you deserve

better.

Lets trade. You can have brittney Spears, and I'll take that Corrine Baily Rae.

I'll throw in the porn version of spears also. Oh, and tell Corrine her hubby

STAYS in England!

---------------------------------

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited.

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Guest guest

i have no real way of knowing if i am secondary

the blood tests first of all in uk they say are in

range,but trrouble is the lab ranges arre for all

adult males and not to my age,at 40 my t shiould be

arround 23 nmo/ its actually between 4.6 and 7.6 ,and

one time 3 yrs ago 10.5 all low but only the 4.6 was

classed as low by uk nhs

i finally got a new doc and she sent me to an endo,not

the one who kjnew her stuff and i was recomdedd as she

left to have a baby!! just my luck

i saw this guy for 9 mins or which 6 must of been on

his dicatapohne,i said hypo secindary on those figures

i bleive ,he said no hypogonasim primary and

secondarry you have elevated abnormal fsh and lh,i

said to hime and had papwerowrk to back me up

" secondary i said is low lh/fsh he said rubbish

he did say yes ok figures a little low but wiutihn in

range so i wilkl call it partial androgen

defieicney,he did not even tell me what that was.

he then said trt inkjections but that was it,then my

phyciatric team siad to the endo we cant let him at

this stage have trt and i said well i did not at this

prensent time anyway

my main thing is to try and see what adhd meds can do

in adrresing some of the issues that both hypogonadism

have and indeed adhd.

you onnly gwt to see the endo every few monthws i

fdont know what its like in usa but beleive me uk is a

joke ,you cant just say " i want this " it dont work you

are deailing withg a lot of sometimes prjudicesd

bureasucrrats often past therre sell by date,i swear

this guy was about 80 if a day!!

i do wondwer how one can be both secondary and

primary,what on earth would show on lh/fsh etc how are

both diagnosied in one patient but i have a website i

look at that states it can happen

its clear my testis were not working as theyt

should,maybe they were to a degree,i see no reason why

testis should not of been paritally working,in your

case if you produce no semen[is that correct can you

not then masterbate] then clearly more things in your

testis were not working

in my case they were working but not how they should

be,and again that wiould indiacte i presume hormone

and brain signalling issues again this is interesting

as my adhd/dyspraxia and asperrgers is also beiived to

do with brains signalling issues,so a possible tie

in,and maybe why its differant in me to you.

do you not have any body hair or deep voice,did none

of these characteristics come about ??

if they did thn again you must of had some part of

your testis working for this to happen,my guess is in

both our cases little bits worked and others did not.

unkess you had nothing at all change in puberty then

your testis may of partially been working bti not

correctly and therfore like mine not developing

either.

so i cant just as to go n hcg as well,for a start i

cant even get the diagnosis hypogonadism secindary.

we cant just phone endo up and say can i see you next

week and can i have trt and hcg in usa maybe you

can,we cant not less you can afford private fees

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey again , I hope you are secondary. If you

> think you are secondary, why are you not on HCG

> along with TRT? If HCG works, that means your

> testicles weren't damage rather a problem with the

> testes sending the signal to produce to your brain.

>

> My LH and FSH will be forever low because my testis

> cannot produce enough sperm for normal function. It

> happens.

>

> Maybe when ever I get a date and hopes it gets

> serious, I can try inexpensive fertility medication

> to try and father a child which I deserve.

>

> I am not sure if HCG can raise my levels a bit while

> on whatever fertility medication. I have checked my

> LH and FSH levels while on TRT and they seem to get

> worst or steady without raising, which I suspected.

>

> I wouldnt mind being slim. Hopefully, by spring I

> can buy cool formal clothes at Sears. Im sure to get

> a look or two on the trains. Maybe I'll finally

> score.

>

> Are you a professional Chef?

>

> Looking forward in seeing the new Bond movie?

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new

> beta.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

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yes\ we can not a problem but i had hoped someone

would come in and help us and diont see why??

i will ask again elliot has said becuae i had

undescended testicles i shuold be primary

so how come my figures show as secondary even though

icant actually gwet a diagoniss,if primary my lh.fsh

should be high

and also i asked what bloods results one would have if

both secondary and primary existed whih i am led to

believe does in some males,but eliot thinks that i

must of had proper puberty even though iu had no

visible testicles till age 22.

so yes if this was purely personal then as saaid

before i was happy to use instant messenger but that

never happened and as what we are talking about

affects many then i see it as impootant for people to

take it on board if they wish to

on email groups the thing is thosae who dont wishg to

read an email do not have to,probalby 9/10 mails on

here i too have no interest in,those saying what meds

they are on have no interest in me but i just dont

read them.

so i dont take it the wrong way,but i had hoped that

others would come on board with contructive

information,sad that never happened.

but if those questions can be answered please go agead

as at this moent i am doubitng i have any

hypogonadiosm at all

and my endo must of been right parital andrrogen

deficiency but if so then i have had it since pubert

again is that possible??

this has confised me all even more to tell the truth

regards paul

--- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> Hi Elliot and if you guys need to talk just to

> each other why not just Emale each other. Most of

> your posts seem personal to me don't take this the

> wrong way just a suggestion.

> Phil

>

> ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey , every person have the right to

> express and I guess, that gentleman felt

> contradicting and enmity was ideal.

>

> , not every soul is going to see our process.

> Most won't in fact. Most is still thinking how can

> an undescended testis cause what you blame for your

> life being unbalanced and unhealthy. My Mom refuses

> to research and thinks Im full of .....

>

> So, Im cutting once again family until my situations

> improve. Folks refuse to research nor put themselves

> within our journeys. It's cool, every person has

> their own life to lead.

>

> I give you much credit . I know you can further

> over come and I know how difficult it is to amend

> elements within your life. Continue to seek

> treatment . Have you tried online dating

> services? I have but its complex to continue and

> explain why Im out-of-work and why Im me.

>

> Let a female you feel profound towards either accept

> your size and dispositions or not. Every female is

> different in what she likes and dislikes. If she

> doesnt, its not the end of the world, even if it

> feels that way. Move on, and play the percentages.

> You are a descent guy that deserves happiness, same

> as me.

>

> Perhaps, once you feel content with your self, you

> can show others you deserve better.

>

> Lets trade. You can have brittney Spears, and I'll

> take that Corrine Baily Rae. I'll throw in the porn

> version of spears also. Oh, and tell Corrine her

> hubby STAYS in England!

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music

> Unlimited.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a

> more powerful email and get things done faster.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

___________________________________________________________

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hi eliot i have sadi this before

i dont want any female contact ,i dont want to even

have to see them if psosble which is why i stay at

home as much as possible,i hated seeing them at work

orr college,but i feel same about most blokes as well

the only person i like and feel comformtable to be

aound is me

i am now even more serious in wanting some drug or op

that can makle me totally disisnterested in opposite

sex,thinking about women on buses and trains and any

situation mucks up my head and my already damahged

thought processes so no online dating ,no dating full

stop

i hwent out with last girl,if she had not asked me i

wiuld not of botheres,i know now after that appalling

experriance i most diefinately dont want female

company and only bare male compoany rarely.

any help i seek is to help me do toher things and not

to seek sexual female company or even non sexual

femail company me and females apart from perhaps an

odd coffee with one or two i now on a very rarre basis

is off limits to me.

anything that does not do as i want i discard so work

i tried it ,it does not like me so out it

went,family/friends and anything that gets in my way

ib dispose of or ration and limit.

i have myself to think about and not the thoughts of

others near me,if i do sort my issues out then fine

who knows i may be differant his ritalin is a chanvce

to try and see what it does good or bad ,then choixes

on other things adhd wise or trt wise may be

avaialble,but not with the local endo thats for sure

when i find he has died or lost his job then maybe i

will try again

till then no way,the tea lady prob knows more than he

does

regards paul

n has

> their own life to lead.

>

> I give you much credit . I know you can further

> over come and I know how difficult it is to amend

> elements within your life. Continue to seek

> treatment . Have you tried online dating

> services? I have but its complex to continue and

> explain why Im out-of-work and why Im me.

>

> Let a female you feel profound towards either accept

> your size and dispositions or not. Every female is

> different in what she likes and dislikes. If she

> doesnt, its not the end of the world, even if it

> feels that way. Move on, and play the percentages.

> You are a descent guy that deserves happiness, same

> as me.

>

> Perhaps, once you feel content with your self, you

> can show others you deserve better.

>

> Lets trade. You can have brittney Spears, and I'll

> take that Corrine Baily Rae. I'll throw in the porn

> version of spears also. Oh, and tell Corrine her

> hubby STAYS in England!

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music

> Unlimited.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a

> more powerful email and get things done faster.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

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hi

no its all mixed really

as hypogonadism casues

depression

anxiety

lethargy

mood swings

confusion and inatention

no sense of drive

sexual function erection issues

and all those lead to more low self esteem and other

issues,so a lot gets mixed in and cant

seperate,hoepfully the ritalin will seperate,who knows

maybe i will be left will only the ed problems all the

others may imprrove enough to start my life.

thoughin hypogonadism it ofdten terms it as lack of

,but of course they dont assume some of us are like it

all our lives

which are mnuch the same with the Neuro issues i

have,ovr time i dont tihnk one can say what came

first,what casied what or what has worse effects but

if i tried ritalin at same time as perhaps trt then i

would not know what was causing whjat good or bad side

affects.

so both are as important,but i dont hold out a lot on

the ritalin but may be pleasantly surprised but main

thing is i need to try something and thats is on offer

first with best medical support from top specialist of

35 yrs experiance,the andropause is in the hands of

someone who is yes an endo and ondiabetic issues is

prob top dollar but not on male sex hormones,its notn

his field i bet he only sees a male sexs hormone issue

once a yr or so,diabetics every day!

--- Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> I'm so sorry for what you endure emotionally ,

> but you have to

> understand it has less to do with hypgonadism and

> more to do with

> your other unrelated health problems. If the Ritilan

> does help, the

> world may look a lot better to you. Not perfect bu t

> more tollerable

> so you can have a more normal lifestyle. I sure hope

> so.

> Vickie

>

>

> In , paul wey

> <promachief@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > hi eliot i have sadi this before

> >

> > i dont want any female contact ,i dont want to

> even

> > have to see them if psosble which is why i stay at

> > home as much as possible,i hated seeing them at

> work

> > orr college,but i feel same about most blokes as

> well

> >

> > the only person i like and feel comformtable to be

> > aound is me

> >

> >

> > i am now even more serious in wanting some drug or

> op

> > that can makle me totally disisnterested in

> opposite

> > sex,thinking about women on buses and trains and

> any

> > situation mucks up my head and my already damahged

> > thought processes so no online dating ,no dating

> full

> > stop

> >

> > i hwent out with last girl,if she had not asked me

> i

> > wiuld not of botheres,i know now after that

> appalling

> > experriance i most diefinately dont want female

> > company and only bare male compoany rarely.

> >

> >

> > any help i seek is to help me do toher things and

> not

> > to seek sexual female company or even non sexual

> > femail company me and females apart from perhaps

> an

> > odd coffee with one or two i now on a very rarre

> basis

> > is off limits to me.

> >

> > anything that does not do as i want i discard so

> work

> > i tried it ,it does not like me so out it

> > went,family/friends and anything that gets in my

> way

> > ib dispose of or ration and limit.

> >

> > i have myself to think about and not the thoughts

> of

> > others near me,if i do sort my issues out then

> fine

> > who knows i may be differant his ritalin is a

> chanvce

> > to try and see what it does good or bad ,then

> choixes

> > on other things adhd wise or trt wise may be

> > avaialble,but not with the local endo thats for

> sure

> > when i find he has died or lost his job then maybe

> i

> > will try again

> >

> >

> > till then no way,the tea lady prob knows more than

> he

> > does

> >

> > regards paul

> >

> >

> >

> > n has

> > > their own life to lead.

> > >

> > > I give you much credit . I know you can

> further

> > > over come and I know how difficult it is to

> amend

> > > elements within your life. Continue to seek

> > > treatment . Have you tried online dating

> > > services? I have but its complex to continue and

> > > explain why Im out-of-work and why Im me.

> > >

> > > Let a female you feel profound towards either

> accept

> > > your size and dispositions or not. Every female

> is

> > > different in what she likes and dislikes. If she

> > > doesnt, its not the end of the world, even if it

> > > feels that way. Move on, and play the

> percentages.

> > > You are a descent guy that deserves happiness,

> same

> > > as me.

> > >

> > > Perhaps, once you feel content with your self,

> you

> > > can show others you deserve better.

> > >

> > > Lets trade. You can have brittney Spears, and

> I'll

> > > take that Corrine Baily Rae. I'll throw in the

> porn

> > > version of spears also. Oh, and tell Corrine her

> > > hubby STAYS in England!

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Access over 1 million songs - Music

> > > Unlimited.

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Check out the all-new beta - Fire up

> a

> > > more powerful email and get things done faster.

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Send instant messages to your online friends

> http://uk.messenger.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

___________________________________________________________

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Guest guest

No offense taken Phil. If I felt the need to private email , I would have. I

may address , but that doesn't stop others from reading and hopefully

finding some kind of support as well. Support Phil and not complaining.

I don't offer anything of contradiction when folks come in here and share. I

didn't say anything when you voiced Phil, on over 20 years without being on the

proper TRT. I learned from that and tried to offer support your way the best I

could. You have taught me so much on how to properly manage my health and

research.

Don't worry, I see what we have been thru isn't being received well by others

secretly. I will amend. So, Ill sit back as others who are also suffering from

hypogandism share the kind that doesn't upset a few in here.

I have shared other avenues I am traveling toward to and whom-ever else

reading. The learning disability services globally, that offer allot of free

programs of over coming. I have shared, try correcting all elements internally

you feel is needed, in living a more successful life

Same as Im doing now. I also shared, the importance of researching and relaying

that toward your doctors. Not getting upset when doctors refuse to try different

avenues. Patience in any health situation is ideal. Monitoring ones personal

health should be ideal in any health situation, especially when you dont have a

support structure.

So, if you feel sharing is personal and only effects , then Ill chat with

him in private, but I hope someone doesn't feel excluded, even when we dont

personally address that person. Sharing and support I thought was the sentiment

of Hypogandism 2.

---------------------------------

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I feel your pain . Have others in Europe from this site, offer some

solutions on the health care situation over there yet?

In America, its easier to hop from doctor to doctor, for multi opinions. If you

have the money and insurance you can without problems.

I think , its a time where you are going to have to rely on what you have

learned and take your judgement in conluding what you are.

You have taken blood tests and talked with Endo Specialist. You understand your

health history and how that is connected toward your situations currently.

In situations where you do not have the best doctors, you must understand how to

read your blood tests in better understanding your situations.

Once again, if you are seeing a doctor for low T, why can't you present detailed

information on what you have learned in here and else where? Why cant you say, I

want to try this at this doses and if not, let me see your superior?

Remember, its your health and not anyone else's. Continue to ask questions in

here and find other medically based forums, where you can email or post toward

qualified medical professionals online. If you cannot find a doctor locally, the

net can help. Its a time , where you have to take control and stop relying

on others, because they will continue to let you down.

I went a whole year in an Endo center that didnt understand my condition. I

didnt give up and I found a center that could offer more. The rest was and still

is, up to me to correct. Im here , if you want to go over your blood

results, etc. Im not as fine tuned as the other experienced members here, but I

will research and find solutions with you friend.

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It is confusing , especially if you have emotional and learning

difficulties. Dont try to learn so much all at once; take your time and re-read

over and over again until you have a basic understanding.

I do think you would benefit from working with a trained learning developmental

specialist. I think I will also.

Both hypogoandism type males have some form of low Lh and Fsh. I'm sure I didnt

type , primary males have high LH and FSH. Really low LH, FSH, and low T

indictates a disorder within the testicles. Rather, the testis or both cannot

properly send the signal to the brain in producing enough hormone for normal

daily functioning life.

That's the easy part to understand. Secondary males, are the opposite. The

testicles can produce hormone but the brain signal is unbalanced. Pituary

problems. HCG acts like a a bridge to re-stimulate where the Pituary fails.

, if your testicles are mature in size and width, also firm that indicates

something good.

If your testicles are small in size, width, very sensitive, and soft that

indicates a more serious issue of their developments.

If I am incorrect anyone correct me.

Common sense would indicate, if the testis never was able to produce, HCG would

be meaningless. Dr. also agrees via his web pages.

I dont think I stated you must have went thru proper puberty. Actually, from

what you told me, I thought the opposite. Its cool. Sorry you read incorrectly.

Im not reading others perceptions neither , other than contradictions. You

need opinions and Im not reading them by more experienced members here. Don't

worry , I won't give up on you. How can I........

---------------------------------

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Hey , I understand. Its not easy for me neither seeing females I wish to

talk to, but shy away. The world sees you as you see yourself within this

generation.

But , mastubation can only take you so far. You will hate it also. You need

to work with your therapist or find a new one, toward your self doubt and self

hate. I know because I have both and is dealing with them. Its a process.

I worry that you have closed off avenues of support. As I stated prior, its just

me and these walls. It hurts to be alone and more importantly, it hurts that I

have grown comfortable being alone and withdrawn. That's a side effect you won't

see discribing low T. Depression have many sub titles.

Your fears are understandable. Its not your fault. You didnt ask to be born with

abnormal sexual characteristics but you were, and so was I, and millions of

other males, who find it difficult as well.

I realized letting a female accept what I have rather than running and feeling

horrible inside must be my new frame of mind. I wont try to pick someone like

Paris Hilton... I feel comfortable having my first, less sexual and more

compassionate.

You have size queens that you can spot out, and then you have those females that

dont worry about size. We both must find them.

Hey, I have had my heart broken many times over. The whole susan thing I made

public in here. , it happens but I cannot stop believing that I am not

worthy of love and human contact. I know, I can have what I always dreamed. So

can you friend.

You must work with trained professionals and yourself, to figure out how to get

your self hate turned around into something more profound and positive.

Receiving the right medications and treatment is the correct start.

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Hello Vickie and thanks for sharing so much to me. It meant allot.

I agree. I know from my situations the emotional problems are more than having

low T. The both are connected and both suck.

Each person handles low T side effects differently. I have faith can over

come.

Vickie <plp40@...> wrote: I'm so sorry for what you endure emotionally

, but you have to

understand it has less to do with hypgonadism and more to do with

your other unrelated health problems. If the Ritilan does help, the

world may look a lot better to you. Not perfect bu t more tollerable

so you can have a more normal lifestyle. I sure hope so.

Vickie

In , paul wey

wrote:

>

>

> hi eliot i have sadi this before

>

> i dont want any female contact ,i dont want to even

> have to see them if psosble which is why i stay at

> home as much as possible,i hated seeing them at work

> orr college,but i feel same about most blokes as well

>

> the only person i like and feel comformtable to be

> aound is me

>

>

> i am now even more serious in wanting some drug or op

> that can makle me totally disisnterested in opposite

> sex,thinking about women on buses and trains and any

> situation mucks up my head and my already damahged

> thought processes so no online dating ,no dating full

> stop

>

> i hwent out with last girl,if she had not asked me i

> wiuld not of botheres,i know now after that appalling

> experriance i most diefinately dont want female

> company and only bare male compoany rarely.

>

>

> any help i seek is to help me do toher things and not

> to seek sexual female company or even non sexual

> femail company me and females apart from perhaps an

> odd coffee with one or two i now on a very rarre basis

> is off limits to me.

>

> anything that does not do as i want i discard so work

> i tried it ,it does not like me so out it

> went,family/friends and anything that gets in my way

> ib dispose of or ration and limit.

>

> i have myself to think about and not the thoughts of

> others near me,if i do sort my issues out then fine

> who knows i may be differant his ritalin is a chanvce

> to try and see what it does good or bad ,then choixes

> on other things adhd wise or trt wise may be

> avaialble,but not with the local endo thats for sure

> when i find he has died or lost his job then maybe i

> will try again

>

>

> till then no way,the tea lady prob knows more than he

> does

>

> regards paul

>

>

>

> n has

> > their own life to lead.

> >

> > I give you much credit . I know you can further

> > over come and I know how difficult it is to amend

> > elements within your life. Continue to seek

> > treatment . Have you tried online dating

> > services? I have but its complex to continue and

> > explain why Im out-of-work and why Im me.

> >

> > Let a female you feel profound towards either accept

> > your size and dispositions or not. Every female is

> > different in what she likes and dislikes. If she

> > doesnt, its not the end of the world, even if it

> > feels that way. Move on, and play the percentages.

> > You are a descent guy that deserves happiness, same

> > as me.

> >

> > Perhaps, once you feel content with your self, you

> > can show others you deserve better.

> >

> > Lets trade. You can have brittney Spears, and I'll

> > take that Corrine Baily Rae. I'll throw in the porn

> > version of spears also. Oh, and tell Corrine her

> > hubby STAYS in England!

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Access over 1 million songs - Music

> > Unlimited.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a

> > more powerful email and get things done faster.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

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http://uk.messenger.

>

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Guest guest

hi i swee my phycologist every week to talk things

you have to realsise withn aspergers its not a case of

high self esteem will makle me want to be with people

and females,that does notn work

some aspies do manage the whole relationships side but

thats only becasue withing them there was a deep need

,for must of us we dont have that deep neede for human

contact in same way as others do.

lost count times at school and college/works when

people said " just come out with us and you will be

fine "

no i am not i hate being with others i am

uncomforrtable,my only contact i do enjoy though that

also has similar problems is email.

beleive me i have put a smile on and a brave face,have

been postive as best i can and bleeive me for me it

does not work

i dont want some therapist saying " hey paul you are a

great guy and all is ok "

that is fantasy imo

i have already told my nurse and phyciatrist off for

that,luckily my phycologist knows how i feel more and

we can have more intelligent discussions based on my

emotions when she sees me

ie i can go in ecstacilyy positive,extemly negativ,ii

can have a meltdown before or after,i can be sometimes

totally withdrrawn ie any emotional state.

what you see on my emails is me annoyesd at something

usually as another test not gone right or trouble with

something,its niot me 24/7 365 in a day my empotions

can change in seconds from posotive to negative etc.

i hate totally posiitve people they get on my wick

,its like they are being murdered and saying " hey i am

ok with this dont worry "

positvioe people ignore there issues,i deal with

mine,i confronyt them i seek answers i seek

support,the problem is there is little support and one

is made worse trying to fight and get it.

i had a meltdown erage shouting and screaming in the

hospital in july with my mum,i was going to a care

meeting,i got in told them this had happened ,mum had

stormed off totally and i explained my scresaming

shouting and hititng the walls.

withing minutes both my phyciatrist and nurse in turn

said " i think paul looks much calmer now than he use

to "

what utterr rubbish did they not get what a meltdown

rage is.do they not understand someone with aspergers

not only r4eads peoples faces/emotions incorrrect but

also puts out the wrong info,so peole often misread

us,ie saying we are happy and look calm when in fact

at that time we are far from calm.

i have my onw positivity thats not based on silly

mantras,myn nurse was surpised when i told her

recently after her asking your phycologist should by

now have you saying things to yourself like

" i am a good person i can achieve anything " i said yes

and if she does that just once thats the last time she

sees me thats for sure,what a load of usuelles tosh

that is i said to her looking surprised[ireasd that

meotion ok]

what i want is acces to proper help,i asked if i

ciould see occupationsla therapist one that deals with

sensory integration,well that cant happen as surpeise

surprise we dont have one in our health authority,i

asked if those around me in my tesam could go on

training for adults with my dissabiktiy,and no we dont

have time or funding,i asked for allsorts of access to

schemes but as most out of county again no funding

my phycologist asks on my behalf as well and she gets

as frrsatrated as me at the answers given.

those are things that have a chance of adffetcting me

but no alll i get is self awareness/anger

management/self esteem and positve awareness courses

nonwe of them designed for autistics,and no one there

trained to work with autism

we dont follow the things same as most people

do,anytihng doen with use needs people who are

trrained in all autistic spectrrum arreas and level of

functioning,this iws well known yet they still dont

get it!!

ideally proper things to help may in fact mean drugs

were not needed,but sadly one has no choice as thats

the only choice.

also things need to be ongoin most thing on offer have

time limits and thsts no good for me,if i need

suppoort in any way counselling then no 12 week limit

works it has to be knbow i will need it for probably

rest of my life as io dont learn it in time periods

and my attention issues lose most of it,so it has keep

being done week in week out

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey , I understand. Its not easy for me neither

> seeing females I wish to talk to, but shy away. The

> world sees you as you see yourself within this

> generation.

>

> But , mastubation can only take you so far. You

> will hate it also. You need to work with your

> therapist or find a new one, toward your self doubt

> and self hate. I know because I have both and is

> dealing with them. Its a process.

>

> I worry that you have closed off avenues of support.

> As I stated prior, its just me and these walls. It

> hurts to be alone and more importantly, it hurts

> that I have grown comfortable being alone and

> withdrawn. That's a side effect you won't see

> discribing low T. Depression have many sub titles.

>

> Your fears are understandable. Its not your fault.

> You didnt ask to be born with abnormal sexual

> characteristics but you were, and so was I, and

> millions of other males, who find it difficult as

> well.

>

> I realized letting a female accept what I have

> rather than running and feeling horrible inside must

> be my new frame of mind. I wont try to pick someone

> like Paris Hilton... I feel comfortable having my

> first, less sexual and more compassionate.

>

> You have size queens that you can spot out, and then

> you have those females that dont worry about size.

> We both must find them.

>

> Hey, I have had my heart broken many times over. The

> whole susan thing I made public in here. , it

> happens but I cannot stop believing that I am not

> worthy of love and human contact. I know, I can have

> what I always dreamed. So can you friend.

>

>

> You must work with trained professionals and

> yourself, to figure out how to get your self hate

> turned around into something more profound and

> positive.

>

> Receiving the right medications and treatment is the

> correct start.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music

> Unlimited.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

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again this does not make sense to me both type have

some form of low fsh/lh,but theny you say primary

males have high lh and fsh in same sentence

then really low lh/fsh is a problems with

testicles,trouble is differsant doctors and labs class

differant things as low or really low or indeed many

of us are classed within normal range by many labs.

also on secondaryt i was under impression its not the

testis sending sigs to the brain ,its the brain

sending isgs through the prituitary to the testis but

i suppose its as bit of both signals both ways getting

lost.

also on puberty no i did not go through a normal

puberty things that should of happened did not the

only things that did was hair and voice change.

did you get hair and vocie change or have any puberty

qat at all??

i dont beleive its as black and white as some think,i

am sure many of us prioamry or secondary have some

puberty issues,becasue some hormones may be lacking ie

testosterone but others may of gone up at time of

puberty,some signals may of got through and others did

not.

also how does ssomeeon get both primary and secondary?

what would there bloodwork show,as it cant show both

high lh/fsh and low at same time,so how does one get

such diagnosis?

i think endos themselves are only just waking up to

male sex hormone issues,in uk we are 20 plus yrs

behind usa but even there we still gwet people with

probems being told there blood is ok,even though its

low side of normal so they say and having bad affects

on those peopple.

the thing is even in medical terms there are massive

differances in what a doc may say is normal

as my testosteron seems to stay low but does vary

between 4.6 nmol to 10.5 nmol that too would indicate

that signals somehwere are indeed getting lost.

but for a man of 40 should be around 23 nmol my lh and

fsh again show as in normal range but only one or two

points into normality and not the higher end they

should be,for priomary both of those should be

abnormally high ,whjeras as my testosterone/lh and fsh

should be in top two thids and not bottom third as it

is at moemmnt,but as said ,if the traits i have in

other ways can be stimulated enough by ritalin then

that may help,if not we go bck and look at other

things

regards paul

>

> Both hypogoandism type males have some form of low

> Lh and Fsh. I'm sure I didnt type , primary

> males have high LH and FSH. Really low LH, FSH, and

> low T indictates a disorder within the testicles.

> Rather, the testis or both cannot properly send the

> signal to the brain in producing enough hormone for

> normal daily functioning life.

>

> That's the easy part to understand. Secondary males,

> are the opposite. The testicles can produce hormone

> but the brain signal is unbalanced. Pituary

> problems. HCG acts like a a bridge to re-stimulate

> where the Pituary fails.

>

> , if your testicles are mature in size and

> width, also firm that indicates something good.

>

> If your testicles are small in size, width, very

> sensitive, and soft that indicates a more serious

> issue of their developments.

>

> If I am incorrect anyone correct me.

>

> Common sense would indicate, if the testis never was

> able to produce, HCG would be meaningless. Dr.

> also agrees via his web pages.

>

> I dont think I stated you must have went thru proper

> puberty. Actually, from what you told me, I thought

> the opposite. Its cool. Sorry you read incorrectly.

>

> Im not reading others perceptions neither ,

> other than contradictions. You need opinions and Im

> not reading them by more experienced members here.

> Don't worry , I won't give up on you. How can

> I........

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a

> more powerful email and get things done faster.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

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