Re: Re: Testosterone Tumbling in American Males

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:53:41 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Brad that is a very interesting article about the dropping testosterone level

> in older men by the year. Wonder what is going on?

> Blessings,

> Rly

I would guess increasing obesity (= higher E2) and maybe some impacts

from hormones in milk, and estrogen like compounds abundant in

pollution, foods, plastics and our environment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & list_uids=1\

1535251

________________

" You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an

argument for it. " Noam Chomsky

[Guest guest]

There are actually numerous ways low T can occur. One main way is, OLD AGE.

I do think when an older male comes in with ED problems, he receives incorrect

information at times. One of the side effects of low T, is ED which isn't still

known in why and how.

The human body doesn't stay young and firm forever. As human beings get older,

the body also gets older and amends. The body amends differently, given not

every older male will experience low T, etc.

To me, articles that state the visional doesn't provide solutions that are yet

to be formulated. Given, allot of males in general should be more knowledgeable

on what will occur later in life, shouldn't worry so much and get checked out

medically now.

There is a percentage of males younger that also experience low T. That is more

abnormal and more serious than the natural progession of getting older.

Conclusion, low T is treatable but males must research and know health risk

that occur during the late stages in life.

retrogrouch@... wrote: On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:53:41 -0800 (PST), you

wrote:

>Brad that is a very interesting article about the dropping testosterone level

> in older men by the year. Wonder what is going on?

> Blessings,

> Rly

I would guess increasing obesity (= higher E2) and maybe some impacts

from hormones in milk, and estrogen like compounds abundant in

pollution, foods, plastics and our environment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & list_uids=1\

1535251

________________

" You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an

argument for it. " Noam Chomsky

[Guest guest]

Hey Roy - I am so happy to hear things are going well for you. It's hard to

describe to someone - especially women - what mental games we men play with

ourselves. When we are impotent, it really is a blow to our male ego and we just

don't feel like a man. We tend to withdraw and keep things in which just makes

it worse. Then one day, you get a stiffy and have sex and your immediately back

on top of the world. Hope you stay on top.

I have not heard from Phil either. He is such a rock here - and is greatly

missed when he is gone. He is the glue for this group and I for one greatly

appreciate his time and effort.

Arkansas

Roy <chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

There are actually numerous ways low T can occur. One main way is, OLD

AGE.

I do think when an older male comes in with ED problems, he receives incorrect

information at times. One of the side effects of low T, is ED which isn't still

known in why and how.

The human body doesn't stay young and firm forever. As human beings get older,

the body also gets older and amends. The body amends differently, given not

every older male will experience low T, etc.

********************************************************************************\

********

Elliot those are very good logistical reasons that you have given excellent

deduction. I know because I am 83 and have lifetime experience in that

field. I have been given so much bad information that it takes a real sieve

to determine the truth.

Actually in sufferers varies from individual to indivitual and how he his life

style etc. I for one after being on testosterone now for well over 20 years

am just beginning to reap the benefits of treatment in spite of the Endo's

that I have seen. They just don't get the picture. The last one did not know

that Estradiol was an important factor in libido, drive or ED. He looked up

Arimidex in his little Ipod and says, " Well yes it is in here so I can write

a script for it but I don't know the dosage. " I said I know the dosage so

if you will do that for me I will appreciate it. It is expensive but it is worth

it as it goes a long ways in correcting E2. My first E2 was 59 before!

To sum up after I joined this group I have learned a lot about correct

treatment and what others have experienced and benefited from.

I hadn't had erections in the mornings for years now just this past

week I had two very hard ones when I turned over it woke me up because

it bent it of course. Then I went back to sleep and there it was again

when I woke up. I didn't think I would ever get to the point of having

nocturnal erections again but you can if you get the hormones back

in balance. Two Endos said it wouldn't happen. I have news for them

I even have sex and sometimes I actually climax again which has been

years in the coming (cumming) ) Dan if you read this you know now

that I am getting in the ball park. I don't know where Phil has gone

haven't seen him in a week or so, hope he is OK. So that is my

story guys and I feel great except for my neuropathy in my feet

which has nothing to do with hormones. Oh yes I had another ONE

this morning, Halllllleeeeuuuaaa! My wife is happy again! Ha!

Blessings,

Roy

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I'm pretty sure Phil posted that he was off on a trip somewhere for a week

or two...

Fantastic post. 83 and getting morning wood! Wow! And good for you for

telling the doc that you knew more than him in terms of Arimidex.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Roy

Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:50 AM

Subject: Re: Testosterone Tumbling in American Males

There are actually numerous ways low T can occur. One main way is, OLD AGE.

I do think when an older male comes in with ED problems, he receives

incorrect information at times. One of the side effects of low T, is ED

which isn't still known in why and how.

The human body doesn't stay young and firm forever. As human beings get

older, the body also gets older and amends. The body amends differently,

given not every older male will experience low T, etc.

****************************************************************************

************

Elliot those are very good logistical reasons that you have given excellent

deduction. I know because I am 83 and have lifetime experience in that

field. I have been given so much bad information that it takes a real sieve

to determine the truth.

Actually in sufferers varies from individual to indivitual and how he his

life

style etc. I for one after being on testosterone now for well over 20 years

am just beginning to reap the benefits of treatment in spite of the Endo's

that I have seen. They just don't get the picture. The last one did not know

that Estradiol was an important factor in libido, drive or ED. He looked up

Arimidex in his little Ipod and says, " Well yes it is in here so I can write

a script for it but I don't know the dosage. " I said I know the dosage so

if you will do that for me I will appreciate it. It is expensive but it is

worth

it as it goes a long ways in correcting E2. My first E2 was 59 before!

To sum up after I joined this group I have learned a lot about correct

treatment and what others have experienced and benefited from.

I hadn't had erections in the mornings for years now just this past

week I had two very hard ones when I turned over it woke me up because

it bent it of course. Then I went back to sleep and there it was again

when I woke up. I didn't think I would ever get to the point of having

nocturnal erections again but you can if you get the hormones back

in balance. Two Endos said it wouldn't happen. I have news for them

I even have sex and sometimes I actually climax again which has been

years in the coming (cumming) ) Dan if you read this you know now

that I am getting in the ball park. I don't know where Phil has gone

haven't seen him in a week or so, hope he is OK. So that is my

story guys and I feel great except for my neuropathy in my feet

which has nothing to do with hormones. Oh yes I had another ONE

this morning, Halllllleeeeuuuaaa! My wife is happy again! Ha!

Blessings,

Roy

---------------------------------

Check out the New - Fire up a more powerful email and get things

done faster.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when I read older males going thru

side effects of low T, I get heedless because I have experienced it since a

child.

I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo, etc should have been a common thing.

Due to very low T and suffering from the side effects since a child but

importantly, never knowing I had this problem, I didn't know wanting to have sex

with someone was desired and masturbation was normal. If you don't have the

desire, I hope folks can understand your mind won't have the demand and thus,

you won't interact.

I still feel masturbation isn't normal, rather dirty and an escape just like

when someone abuses a drug.

It didn't help me once realizing around 13, that my genitalia stop growing and I

wasn't going thru puberty normally as others my age. Once I realized my penis

was small and I figured it wasn't getting bigger, the emotional side effects of

low T, came forward and I NEVER thought about being with a female in that form.

So, allot of times I didn't try to attract because I knew, I wouldn't be able to

pleasure her then and now. I guess, allot of the side effect from depression,

stems from how you view yourself.

It is a chemical unbalance as well but, if you know your genitialia is smaller,

and the whole world tells you bigger is better including females, that will make

you hate yourself further on top of the chemical unbalance low T causes. Add

other emotional problems from low T, and you have a serious mental problem, that

can effect any low T male, and it did with me.

It must suck for normal healthy males to stop having erections, etc and then

start developing hypogonadism side effects. This site does help and it helped me

to profound degrees.

BTW, good for you Mr in knowing how to use the net and a PC. Some older

folks have trepidation toward technology. Never to old to learn; now I am on TRT

I should not have the emotional difficulties toward a higher education and

interacting with humans who still scare me a bit, especially those I wish I

could be and date.

---------------------------------

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Its wonderful to read a parent taking positive control over health, etc within

their child or children existence. Unfortunately, not every parent shares within

that notion. Too many parents leave every medical decision(s) and discovery(ies)

up to doctors that may not have the patient care as primary.

My situation was and is rare. Doctors told my parents I simply pulled something

leading to my testis up-scending, which was a lie. I guess from a medical

conclusion, if doctors believed my testis was up-scended simply from me pulling

or straning something, then the surgery was a success. I ask myself daily after

realizing why I suffered, why wasnt my hormonal levels tested for some form of

abnormality. I tried to reach out on how I felt. No one cared enough.

I mentioned, puberty wasn't devoloping for me in full, but I guess I didnt

explain it properly to my family physican and parents at the time. I mentioned

to my mom at 13, my gentialia stopped growing leading to my first year of mental

breakdown.

I simply shut down after that day.

Water-under-the-bridge, may seem ideal in theory, but trying to over come years

of side effects and never knowing what most males in here have experienced,

seems........ It's baby steps for me, and Im not going to continue and explain

why. Im tired of explaining to people who refuse to research or assume, hey I

have hypogonadism, blah blah blah. Or, I have been sick blah blah blah.

I try to explain, Im 29 and was born with a birth defect that was mis diagnosed.

TRT could have corrected this problem pre-puberty but unfortuately wasn't. If my

parents were more like you, perhaps they would have picked up on my social and

emotional withdraws, learning disabilities, never dating, etc.

I havent killed myself for reasons I know are valid and profound, nor have I

abused anything other than porn. Some how, without support while still living as

a virgin and out-cast, I will become something profound and successful. Thanks

Vickie, and continue to be a super parent and never take anything your children

say or do with a naive and heedless mentality. Ask questions if you must, and if

their grades are poor, work with them and see if a more serious problem is the

cause. Love and support them no matter what. Never make them feel like a

failure.

Vickie <plp40@...> wrote: Elliot,

It's very sad to relaize how seldom people take routine health

screening seriously. If you were an adult before a problem was

discovered in this day and age, that is neglect on someone's part.

Every year... " EVERY " year I schedule a complete physical for my

children and for us. Their physicals are intended to be

preventative. I think a Physician and or parent would notice

something as serious as a child not developing properly. Maybe I'm

different but I'll tell you I sure would have.

Water under the bridge now. Now you are in charge and taking

command. What was is history and today is up to you! Vickie

as the In , ELLIOT BAKER

wrote:

>

> Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when I read older males

going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless because I have

experienced it since a child.

>

> I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo, etc should have been a

common thing. Due to very low T and suffering from the side effects

since a child but importantly, never knowing I had this problem, I

didn't know wanting to have sex with someone was desired and

masturbation was normal. If you don't have the desire, I hope folks

can understand your mind won't have the demand and thus, you won't

interact.

>

> I still feel masturbation isn't normal, rather dirty and an escape

just like when someone abuses a drug.

>

> It didn't help me once realizing around 13, that my genitalia stop

growing and I wasn't going thru puberty normally as others my age.

Once I realized my penis was small and I figured it wasn't getting

bigger, the emotional side effects of low T, came forward and I

NEVER thought about being with a female in that form.

>

> So, allot of times I didn't try to attract because I knew, I

wouldn't be able to pleasure her then and now. I guess, allot of the

side effect from depression, stems from how you view yourself.

>

> It is a chemical unbalance as well but, if you know your

genitialia is smaller, and the whole world tells you bigger is

better including females, that will make you hate yourself further

on top of the chemical unbalance low T causes. Add other emotional

problems from low T, and you have a serious mental problem, that can

effect any low T male, and it did with me.

>

>

> It must suck for normal healthy males to stop having erections,

etc and then start developing hypogonadism side effects. This site

does help and it helped me to profound degrees.

>

> BTW, good for you Mr in knowing how to use the net and a

PC. Some older folks have trepidation toward technology. Never to

old to learn; now I am on TRT I should not have the emotional

difficulties toward a higher education and interacting with humans

who still scare me a bit, especially those I wish I could be and

date.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-

Phone call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

the story is similar to mine but my parents had no

idea as i guess many parents dont ,how does a parents

know how ones genitals develop

my father was a teacher but he had no idea our

testicles dropped before puberrty,so no one saw that

as an issue for me,and then my penis staying

small,erectioanl dysfunction and all esle again ,my

parents there is no way i was going ot even tell them

things were not5 right.

i kept thinking i would either develop normally or i

was so abnromal perhaps even a haemophridite at one

point that no one could do anytthing and i was jusyt a

freak.

kids at 11 in big school had seen my equipemnt no

balls and small dick and from then on i was vicitom of

bullying from boys and worrse from girls with taunts

every day and physical intimidation and attempts to

sdort my genitals out!!

so that added to my fright and worries,i had no idea

what mastebatiuon was till 19,i had though pissing and

masterbation were same thing so i use to piss on

things thinking i had masterbated and contact with

girls was nil and is a rare occurance today resulting

in more problems,i wish ot be rid of any sexual

feelings at all.its does me no good finding a woman

attractive when i cant get erections for intercours

and cant do the relationships anyway i have

aspergers/adhd that dont help as well,i am no good at

xcommitments and responsibiltiy i dont want kids or

marriage etc

but sexually i like women but cant maintain

erections,and even masterbation takes a lot of work

and make sure i suddenly sont think of something else

as mind alwayts sdoes with my adhd etc racing ofdf

onto something else and losing the parital erection

i dont like docs seeing my bits eitherr and when

examinide for tight forsekin in end i had to go into

hospital and be put on anaethectic just ot be seen

to!!

so i wont go to doctors for such examinations ,so its

mnot just simple to get checked out ,gfor a start in

UK you barely get time with a doc,gwetting the blood

tests for low t has takne 3 yrs and still doubnted by

uk professionals as the lab ranges say low side of

normal

and also in my case i dont want the errections and

sexual desire to me they cloud my thoughts too much i

hate my genitals they have all my life with rection

dysfunction/tiught foreskin and cryptorchidsm

undescended bilateral testiclels/small size and so on

been nothin but a blight on my body and if anyone

knows on hwere of any drugs that will rid me of all

sexual thoughts and functiuioniung i will gladly take

them.

i dont want to be thinking of women when i have to

think of other things and trry and start my life which

at age 40 i have nothing worth living for,my curent

tihnking is when parents die,who i live with i intend

to die shortly after as i dont beleive i will cope

without them as my carwers ,social services in uk

cannot replace what my parents are to me .

though if i ever start on the ritalin for ADHD i dont

know i may have better thoughts??

but even witn my cyrtporchidism diagnoised at age 22

no one ever thought about testosterone least alone me

anf no blood tests were taken then,no one even askend

me about sexual dysfunction

regards paul

--- Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> Elliot,

> It's very sad to relaize how seldom people take

> routine health

> screening seriously. If you were an adult before a

> problem was

> discovered in this day and age, that is neglect on

> someone's part.

> Every year... " EVERY " year I schedule a complete

> physical for my

> children and for us. Their physicals are intended to

> be

> preventative. I think a Physician and or parent

> would notice

> something as serious as a child not developing

> properly. Maybe I'm

> different but I'll tell you I sure would have.

> Water under the bridge now. Now you are in charge

> and taking

> command. What was is history and today is up to you!

> Vickie

>

>

> as the In , ELLIOT

> BAKER

> <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when I

> read older males

> going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless

> because I have

> experienced it since a child.

> >

> > I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo, etc

> should have been a

> common thing. Due to very low T and suffering from

> the side effects

> since a child but importantly, never knowing I had

> this problem, I

> didn't know wanting to have sex with someone was

> desired and

> masturbation was normal. If you don't have the

> desire, I hope folks

> can understand your mind won't have the demand and

> thus, you won't

> interact.

> >

> > I still feel masturbation isn't normal, rather

> dirty and an escape

> just like when someone abuses a drug.

> >

> > It didn't help me once realizing around 13, that

> my genitalia stop

> growing and I wasn't going thru puberty normally as

> others my age.

> Once I realized my penis was small and I figured it

> wasn't getting

> bigger, the emotional side effects of low T, came

> forward and I

> NEVER thought about being with a female in that

> form.

> >

> > So, allot of times I didn't try to attract because

> I knew, I

> wouldn't be able to pleasure her then and now. I

> guess, allot of the

> side effect from depression, stems from how you view

> yourself.

> >

> > It is a chemical unbalance as well but, if you

> know your

> genitialia is smaller, and the whole world tells you

> bigger is

> better including females, that will make you hate

> yourself further

> on top of the chemical unbalance low T causes. Add

> other emotional

> problems from low T, and you have a serious mental

> problem, that can

> effect any low T male, and it did with me.

> >

> >

> > It must suck for normal healthy males to stop

> having erections,

> etc and then start developing hypogonadism side

> effects. This site

> does help and it helped me to profound degrees.

> >

> > BTW, good for you Mr in knowing how to use

> the net and a

> PC. Some older folks have trepidation toward

> technology. Never to

> old to learn; now I am on TRT I should not have the

> emotional

> difficulties toward a higher education and

> interacting with humans

> who still scare me a bit, especially those I wish I

> could be and

> date.

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's

> cheap PC-to-

> Phone call rates.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

ELIOT take it from me i know how you are feeling as i

am about the same,its ok to say let go of the anger

and hurt but if its still there and not resolved in

anyway then it wont go away.

we are how we are partially becasuee of how our

horrmones are not working corrreclty,i dont beleive

its thye other way round,i dont think being posiitvie

has any affect on hormones,if it was was then none of

use would be having hormonal issues males or

females,the fact is hormones control so much of ourr

being and if not well balanced then we feel bad and

have bad emotional experiances more.

as for taking charge yes its a long slow process but

is not simple especialy as with both the genital

issues and my adhd/asperger/dyspraxia issues i have to

fight with social serrvice and health providers to

help me,only this week my local nurses department has

sent me a letter saying due to my nurse being off sick

for now a few weeks and seems a few weeks more they

dont have staff or funding to see any of her clients!!

whixch means all her clients incliuding me get no

nurse at all till she is back at work!!!

whixh means my weekly blood pressure checks plus her

helping me with exercise and she was supposed to be

keeping eye on me in immediate affect of taking

ritalin whih i am supposed to take soon if my own

phyciatrist listens to my specialist who has

recomenedd it that is.

wht can i do ,my hands are tied ,i cant get a nurse

its hard to book to see ones own doctor or nurses at

the local practice,my phyciatrist takes no note of

what my specialists says,i am in his hands i cant

control a thing its not im my power.

even whhen endo suggested trt which i had not asked

for or wanted my phyciatrist immedialtelyt blocked it

as he has in past with cocerta and hopefully not

ritalin as my spcialist has said i am ok to try it,if

that is looked after well,sadly with no nurse being

available to monitor me i may be delayed again on

medication due to there staffing issues,again not my

fault and not in my power at all

very nice email of support vicky and well appreciated

by me and prob eliot as well but its so dam hard for

me and i can see the same pain for eliot

eliot

promachief is my messenger id if you wish a

chat,though i warn you i am not a very positive person

like you life has dealt me a load of knocks i cant

deal with

but least we can get depressed together

regards paul

> > up-scended simply from me pulling or straning

> something, then the

> > surgery was a success. I ask myself daily after

> realizing why I

> > suffered, why wasnt my hormonal levels tested for

> some form of

> > abnormality. I tried to reach out on how I felt.

> No one cared

> enough.

> > >

> > > I mentioned, puberty wasn't devoloping for me in

> full, but I

> guess

> > I didnt explain it properly to my family physican

> and parents at

> the

> > time. I mentioned to my mom at 13, my gentialia

> stopped growing

> > leading to my first year of mental breakdown.

> > > I simply shut down after that day.

> > >

> > > Water-under-the-bridge, may seem ideal in

> theory, but trying to

> > over come years of side effects and never knowing

> what most males

> in

> > here have experienced, seems........ It's baby

> steps for me, and Im

> > not going to continue and explain why. Im tired of

> explaining to

> > people who refuse to research or assume, hey I

> have hypogonadism,

> > blah blah blah. Or, I have been sick blah blah

> blah.

> > >

> > >

> > > I try to explain, Im 29 and was born with a

> birth defect that was

> > mis diagnosed. TRT could have corrected this

> problem pre-puberty

> but

> > unfortuately wasn't. If my parents were more like

> you, perhaps they

> > would have picked up on my social and emotional

> withdraws, learning

> > disabilities, never dating, etc.

> > >

> > > I havent killed myself for reasons I know are

> valid and profound,

> > nor have I abused anything other than porn. Some

> how, without

> > support while still living as a virgin and

> out-cast, I will become

> > something profound and successful. Thanks Vickie,

> and continue to

> be

> > a super parent and never take anything your

> children say or do with

> > a naive and heedless mentality. Ask questions if

> you must, and if

> > their grades are poor, work with them and see if a

> more serious

> > problem is the cause. Love and support them no

> matter what. Never

> > make them feel like a failure.

> > >

> > >

> > > Vickie <plp40@> wrote: Elliot,

> > > It's very sad to relaize how seldom people take

> routine health

> > > screening seriously. If you were an adult before

> a problem was

> > > discovered in this day and age, that is neglect

> on someone's part.

> > > Every year... " EVERY " year I schedule a complete

> physical for my

> > > children and for us. Their physicals are

> intended to be

> > > preventative. I think a Physician and or parent

> would notice

> > > something as serious as a child not developing

> properly. Maybe

> I'm

> > > different but I'll tell you I sure would have.

> > > Water under the bridge now. Now you are in

> charge and taking

> > > command. What was is history and today is up to

> you! Vickie

> > >

> > >

> > > as the In ,

> ELLIOT BAKER

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when

> I read older

> > males

> > > going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless

> because I have

> > > experienced it since a child.

> > > >

> > > > I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo,

> etc should have

> been

> > a

> > > common thing. Due to very low T and suffering

> from the side

> > effects

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Thank you for being brave and relating. I'm sorry I havent reached out

toward you in force. Sometimes I forget you experienced what I did and still do.

So many in here, think our stories are...... It's good to read someone else can

relate instead of believe we are liars and making our suffering up. Screw pity

from folks. I don't share for kind words. Kind words won't correct anything.

, even at 40 you still have allot of good years ahead. Trust me, I know what

you went thru because I was there and still is. One of the reasons why I havent

killed myself, is the belief I can be profound some day, but that faith is so so

hard.

Im still a virgin and it hurts me inside. I try to put myself out there, in my

own way, but I cannot make anyone like me and even if, my mind has always been,

I couldnt pleasure a female with a below 6 inch penis. I guess allot of the

depression stems from self hating created at early ages. My therapist still

doesnt understand when I stay, IM A VIRGIN, I never had friends, and I was

never happy. Her and allot of others still pity and blame me rather than seeing

whats the cause.

Ill share more later. I wish you could come here to America, . Here, you can

receive more treatment and care and a bit more understanding. You must continue

in life. We all have purpose, even you and I friend. Screw others who continue

to be naive rather than just reading our words and trying to better understand.

Our situations are rare.

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: the story is similar to mine but my

parents had no

idea as i guess many parents dont ,how does a parents

know how ones genitals develop

my father was a teacher but he had no idea our

testicles dropped before puberrty,so no one saw that

as an issue for me,and then my penis staying

small,erectioanl dysfunction and all esle again ,my

parents there is no way i was going ot even tell them

things were not5 right.

i kept thinking i would either develop normally or i

was so abnromal perhaps even a haemophridite at one

point that no one could do anytthing and i was jusyt a

freak.

kids at 11 in big school had seen my equipemnt no

balls and small dick and from then on i was vicitom of

bullying from boys and worrse from girls with taunts

every day and physical intimidation and attempts to

sdort my genitals out!!

so that added to my fright and worries,i had no idea

what mastebatiuon was till 19,i had though pissing and

masterbation were same thing so i use to piss on

things thinking i had masterbated and contact with

girls was nil and is a rare occurance today resulting

in more problems,i wish ot be rid of any sexual

feelings at all.its does me no good finding a woman

attractive when i cant get erections for intercours

and cant do the relationships anyway i have

aspergers/adhd that dont help as well,i am no good at

xcommitments and responsibiltiy i dont want kids or

marriage etc

but sexually i like women but cant maintain

erections,and even masterbation takes a lot of work

and make sure i suddenly sont think of something else

as mind alwayts sdoes with my adhd etc racing ofdf

onto something else and losing the parital erection

i dont like docs seeing my bits eitherr and when

examinide for tight forsekin in end i had to go into

hospital and be put on anaethectic just ot be seen

to!!

so i wont go to doctors for such examinations ,so its

mnot just simple to get checked out ,gfor a start in

UK you barely get time with a doc,gwetting the blood

tests for low t has takne 3 yrs and still doubnted by

uk professionals as the lab ranges say low side of

normal

and also in my case i dont want the errections and

sexual desire to me they cloud my thoughts too much i

hate my genitals they have all my life with rection

dysfunction/tiught foreskin and cryptorchidsm

undescended bilateral testiclels/small size and so on

been nothin but a blight on my body and if anyone

knows on hwere of any drugs that will rid me of all

sexual thoughts and functiuioniung i will gladly take

them.

i dont want to be thinking of women when i have to

think of other things and trry and start my life which

at age 40 i have nothing worth living for,my curent

tihnking is when parents die,who i live with i intend

to die shortly after as i dont beleive i will cope

without them as my carwers ,social services in uk

cannot replace what my parents are to me .

though if i ever start on the ritalin for ADHD i dont

know i may have better thoughts??

but even witn my cyrtporchidism diagnoised at age 22

no one ever thought about testosterone least alone me

anf no blood tests were taken then,no one even askend

me about sexual dysfunction

regards paul

--- Vickie

wrote:

> Elliot,

> It's very sad to relaize how seldom people take

> routine health

> screening seriously. If you were an adult before a

> problem was

> discovered in this day and age, that is neglect on

> someone's part.

> Every year... " EVERY " year I schedule a complete

> physical for my

> children and for us. Their physicals are intended to

> be

> preventative. I think a Physician and or parent

> would notice

> something as serious as a child not developing

> properly. Maybe I'm

> different but I'll tell you I sure would have.

> Water under the bridge now. Now you are in charge

> and taking

> command. What was is history and today is up to you!

> Vickie

>

>

> as the In , ELLIOT

> BAKER

> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks for agreeing Mr . Sometimes when I

> read older males

> going thru side effects of low T, I get heedless

> because I have

> experienced it since a child.

> >

> > I wish I knew as a teen, erections, libldo, etc

> should have been a

> common thing. Due to very low T and suffering from

> the side effects

> since a child but importantly, never knowing I had

> this problem, I

> didn't know wanting to have sex with someone was

> desired and

> masturbation was normal. If you don't have the

> desire, I hope folks

> can understand your mind won't have the demand and

> thus, you won't

> interact.

> >

> > I still feel masturbation isn't normal, rather

> dirty and an escape

> just like when someone abuses a drug.

> >

> > It didn't help me once realizing around 13, that

> my genitalia stop

> growing and I wasn't going thru puberty normally as

> others my age.

> Once I realized my penis was small and I figured it

> wasn't getting

> bigger, the emotional side effects of low T, came

> forward and I

> NEVER thought about being with a female in that

> form.

> >

> > So, allot of times I didn't try to attract because

> I knew, I

> wouldn't be able to pleasure her then and now. I

> guess, allot of the

> side effect from depression, stems from how you view

> yourself.

> >

> > It is a chemical unbalance as well but, if you

> know your

> genitialia is smaller, and the whole world tells you

> bigger is

> better including females, that will make you hate

> yourself further

> on top of the chemical unbalance low T causes. Add

> other emotional

> problems from low T, and you have a serious mental

> problem, that can

> effect any low T male, and it did with me.

> >

> >

> > It must suck for normal healthy males to stop

> having erections,

> etc and then start developing hypogonadism side

> effects. This site

> does help and it helped me to profound degrees.

> >

> > BTW, good for you Mr in knowing how to use

> the net and a

> PC. Some older folks have trepidation toward

> technology. Never to

> old to learn; now I am on TRT I should not have the

> emotional

> difficulties toward a higher education and

> interacting with humans

> who still scare me a bit, especially those I wish I

> could be and

> date.

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's

> cheap PC-to-

> Phone call rates.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

hi mine and eliots sound very much alike

i have learning diabikites that mean i cant read much

or take much in ,thats why i cant researrch things in

detail i can glance overr them but then just get

overloaded by it all

whixh is why i am unable to work or live independantly

the problems i have with my genitals started to be

noiteced only at puberty and my othwer issues of being

on own and not wanting to participtate in

anything,lethargy,feeling totally alein to my peers

started way back for me knowing at about 6,my parents

knew someything was wrong with me emotionally at about

3 as apparently i was not developping emotionally same

as my brrother and sis or indeed my peers and as soone

as i started school i knew i did not fit in ,bullyinf

starrted from that first day at school the sexual

isssues and not having any visible testicles added on

to this when 11 and going in for spiort at school

which i detested and by end of first years i refused

ever to do any more sports becasue of how i hated it.

i never mixed with other kids and never knew whats

being a guy was supposed to be,never dated,never

parties,never had major hormonal issues at puberty,it

seemed to get everyone else but not me .

its vwery hard to be positive when you are male and

dont act male in any way,and by time i am now 40 dont

even want to i want to be rid of my genitals as they

have caused me nothing but grief and are useless for

any manly purpose.

but the horrmonal issues came from witihn they are not

perpetuated by how i feel if that was the case as

saaid none of us would have hormonal issues,we would

just be happpy and all our probs would go away,in real

life that rarely happens ,not saying it does not,sfor

some positivity is a boost for me it means running

away from the problems

for years i attempted to work and get on with my

life,i was just palying at it,putiing on a smile a

joke [often about my genitals] now i realise one has

to see ones prroblems and seek help,sadly the help is

hard to come by

if one has a short attention span as i do then trying

to help ioneself is not easy as within a couple of

mins i anm bored and want to do something else.

my life is in slow motion things most people do daiuly

takes me all week

i was on one day,shave another,bather evey 3 weeks or

so,go out every 4 days or so,clean teeth every 3 days

or so,if i do all or attempt all in one day i get

overloaded and hyper

which leads to more temper meltdowns.

so i take life at a slow pace and even that can be too

fast sometimes

with help of others then its a bit better but getting

that help in uk is difficult,adhd and aspergers there

is little help let alone adult help.

some say well all get together and support each

other,but that misses the point we are as aspiergers

loners how thwenhell do we gwet together,if we did it

would be like a war with all in the room disagreeing

as infact we do on support email groups,help has to be

one to one not group.

anyway just hoping i get my ritalin soon and just see

if it works or does not.

regards and as said your support is valued but its

harder if you have learrning dissabiities and lifelong

low testosteron like i have and i beleive eliot has by

what he says

regards paul

--- Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> W,

> I mean this in the most kind way. Elliot may have

> some of your

> physical traits in common but his over all situation

> is very

> different than yours. You and Elliot can be of great

> support to one

> another in this group...as everyone is

> regardless....and my comment

> about stress depleting our reserves in hormones

> etc...I hope you

> will read the research out there. Many of our

> hormones are affected

> by long term stress.....so try to worry less and try

> to be happier

> more maybe? May sound like a pipe dream but it's

> free so no loss in

> investing with potential for long term wealth!

> Good Luck, Vickie

>

>

>

>

> In , paul wey

> <promachief@...> wrote:

> >

> > ELIOT take it from me i know how you are feeling

> as i

> > am about the same,its ok to say let go of the

> anger

> > and hurt but if its still there and not resolved

> in

> > anyway then it wont go away.

> >

> > we are how we are partially becasuee of how our

> > horrmones are not working corrreclty,i dont

> beleive

> > its thye other way round,i dont think being

> posiitvie

> > has any affect on hormones,if it was was then none

> of

> > use would be having hormonal issues males or

> > females,the fact is hormones control so much of

> ourr

> > being and if not well balanced then we feel bad

> and

> > have bad emotional experiances more.

> >

> >

> >

> > as for taking charge yes its a long slow process

> but

> > is not simple especialy as with both the genital

> > issues and my adhd/asperger/dyspraxia issues i

> have to

> > fight with social serrvice and health providers to

> > help me,only this week my local nurses department

> has

> > sent me a letter saying due to my nurse being off

> sick

> > for now a few weeks and seems a few weeks more

> they

> > dont have staff or funding to see any of her

> clients!!

> >

> > whixch means all her clients incliuding me get no

> > nurse at all till she is back at work!!!

> >

> >

> > whixh means my weekly blood pressure checks plus

> her

> > helping me with exercise and she was supposed to

> be

> > keeping eye on me in immediate affect of taking

> > ritalin whih i am supposed to take soon if my own

> > phyciatrist listens to my specialist who has

> > recomenedd it that is.

> >

> >

> > wht can i do ,my hands are tied ,i cant get a

> nurse

> > its hard to book to see ones own doctor or nurses

> at

> > the local practice,my phyciatrist takes no note of

> > what my specialists says,i am in his hands i cant

> > control a thing its not im my power.

> >

> > even whhen endo suggested trt which i had not

> asked

> > for or wanted my phyciatrist immedialtelyt blocked

> it

> > as he has in past with cocerta and hopefully not

> > ritalin as my spcialist has said i am ok to try

> it,if

> > that is looked after well,sadly with no nurse

> being

> > available to monitor me i may be delayed again on

> > medication due to there staffing issues,again not

> my

> > fault and not in my power at all

> >

> > very nice email of support vicky and well

> appreciated

> > by me and prob eliot as well but its so dam hard

> for

> > me and i can see the same pain for eliot

> >

> > eliot

> >

> > promachief is my messenger id if you wish a

> > chat,though i warn you i am not a very positive

> person

> > like you life has dealt me a load of knocks i cant

> > deal with

> >

> >

> > but least we can get depressed together

> >

> > regards paul

> >

> >

> >

> > > > up-scended simply from me pulling or straning

> > > something, then the

> > > > surgery was a success. I ask myself daily

> after

> > > realizing why I

> > > > suffered, why wasnt my hormonal levels tested

> for

> > > some form of

> > > > abnormality. I tried to reach out on how I

> felt.

> > > No one cared

> > > enough.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mentioned, puberty wasn't devoloping for

> me in

> > > full, but I

> > > guess

> > > > I didnt explain it properly to my family

> physican

> > > and parents at

> > > the

> > > > time. I mentioned to my mom at 13, my

> gentialia

> > > stopped growing

> > > > leading to my first year of mental breakdown.

> > > > > I simply shut down after that day.

> > > > >

> > > > > Water-under-the-bridge, may seem ideal in

> > > theory, but trying to

> > > > over come years of side effects and never

> knowing

> > > what most males

> > > in

> > > > here have experienced, seems........ It's baby

> > > steps for me, and Im

> > > > not going to continue and explain why. Im

> tired of

> > > explaining to

> > > > people who refuse to research or assume, hey I

> > > have hypogonadism,

> > > > blah blah blah. Or, I have been sick blah blah

> > > blah.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I try to explain, Im 29 and was born with a

> > > birth defect that was

> > > > mis diagnosed. TRT could have corrected this

> > > problem pre-puberty

> > > but

> > > > unfortuately wasn't. If my parents were more

> like

> > > you, perhaps they

> > > > would have picked up on my social and

> emotional

> > > withdraws, learning

> > > > disabilities, never dating, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > I havent killed myself for reasons I know

> are

> > > valid and profound,

> > > > nor have I abused anything other than porn.

> Some

> > > how, without

> > > > support while still living as a virgin and

> > > out-cast, I will become

> > > > something profound and successful. Thanks

> Vickie,

> > > and continue to

> > > be

> > > > a super parent and never take anything your

> > > children say or do with

> > > > a naive and heedless mentality. Ask questions

> if

> > > you must, and if

> > > > their grades are poor, work with them and see

> if a

> > > more serious

> > > > problem is the cause. Love and support them no

> > > matter what. Never

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Hey , I understand not being able to work and live independently. I haven't

worked in three years. Three years ago, I started going to doctors, to determine

what was wrong with me mentally. Didnt know I was primary, because I never

researched. I believed what the doctors said was why I had surgery to descend a

testis. I didnt know it was the cause of all my hurt.

I knew I had " man boobs " , so once I was in the mental health program, I asked to

be referred to see why, and that's how I first learned of some hormonal

disorder. The center sucked and couldn't tell me what was wrong; so they just

treated my depression. Many meds during that year and none worked cause my T was

very dangerously low.

Last year, a mere blood test concluded from LH, FSH, and Low t I was primary.

What caused primary? Unscended testis that negativity effected the other, during

birth; surgerly desended years late without any form of TRT.

, very few understand including males in here with hypgonadism. They are

fortunate because their hypogonadism occurred not at birth but later in life.

Atleast males in here got to bare children, educate, form friendships, love, be

loved, etc. Side effects of hypogandism varies from male to male. Depression in

another male may be stronger with other emotional difficulties in others.

Years of emotional difficulties can never be questioned. A med just doesnt stop

a lifetime of hurt. Its a process. I wish folks would understand that. Some may

never get over the hurt.

I'm trying to figure out without medication for emotional difficulties, how to

live happy and content. All I know is shame, loneliness, self hating, and pain

all my life.

I know till the day I die, I must take TRT. I know if I stop for even one week,

my emotional diffculties will surface again.

It's a lifetime for and I. But understand, its not anyones fault in here

and else where. Its refleshing in times to question others as they complain. Im

sharing and not complaining. Complaining would detail I had some form of

stability prior I wish to seek again.

Should I hate my parents for not being more active in my health? Should I hate

them for not being more like Vickie?

Should I hate doctors for lying and not checking my hormonal levels?

Should I continue to hate and be afraid of females? Is it their faults for not

confronting me or is it my fault, for only showing a defeated living corpse?

I dont get angry. Rarely am I within stressful and pressured situations.

It hurts bad to see folks your age, successful. It hurts to be scared and

ashamed to a point, I wait hours to get on a train because I feel I am inferior.

Crowded areas scare me also. I hate them.

I hate making eye contact and I always put my head down and play my rock music

loud. The music sometimes make the superior humans invisionable. Then I realize,

I am not normal and they are.

Try feeling inferior when around others. Im beyond feeling inferior. No

medication can correct this. I have to correct it some how.

Understand, a lifetime of emotional difficulties from not being treated for

hypgonadism, causes my words. Sure, I take my shots, not even a year yet, but Im

trying. Its a process I dont know if I can wait to see the results from.

Ill feel better when I find her. Even if it doesnt work out, atleast I have

hope. I dont know if you have experienced relationships , but I so need that

experience. I want to feel human and I feel, a girlfriend will provide that.

Maybe Ill stop hating females for making me feel horrible inside.

, I have always been heavely guarded. If I had to expose myself in school, I

wouldnt no matter what or I would do it within a closed private environment.

Being open, as I am here, is very very new. No one knew about my problems

because I knew, they would pity and couldnt understand. Same for females. I made

the few in my life, go away. I knew they wouldnt understand, so I spared them.

A combination of having very low T and not having desires sexually, and simply

knowing what I had wasnt good enough, I guess saved me the embarrassment of

being within a sexual situation and having her either laugh, leave, or stay.

I chose to pick females I knew deep inside, I had no chance with, and made the

few that liked me, simply go away because I knew my secrets would come out and

she would pick a male that was normal and healthy.

I have explained my health and even gentialia to females online. I felt instead

of run, why not have faith they can understand.

Its a ........ to feel not good enough, even when you know you are. A decent and

compassionate heart isnt good enough.

, you are not lazy. You are a decent and good person. I wish I could give

you something profound. The mind is so complex. I dont know if I will ever feel

human. I dont know if I can over come all those years of darkness.

, Im sure your country has programs for those with disabilities. Perhaps, if

you havent yet, you can work on educational and social skills. I have seen TV

shows with characters who had aspergers.

Its another process , I will once again take with college, or extended HS in

my view. I figured, the other times I tried I couldnt complete because I wasnt

being treated. Now, Im being treated, the more I think, the more I feel its

going to be me feeling inferior and hating myself and females more and more,

preventing me from learning which would detail tutors, studying, and a desire on

my part.

Perhaps, I can be adult-adopted by Vickie.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Wow and thanks for the words Vickie. Let me know if you would refer Ma'am.

One notion, you mentioned your children went thru life so far without health

worries, which is super and I wish for it to continue. I understand your

under-tone. If your children todate, have some form of altering health problem

they would handle it differently in which I have been. Its cool Vickie, you have

that right to compare.

I can list from when I was a mere child Vickie, what I lacked to experience and

succeed, toward what your children have experienced and succeeded within.

The notion that hypogonadism only effects males older is heedless. Primary

hypogandism, which is called by a couple of other terms, effected me by way of a

birth defect. Both my testis were effected but one was undescended.

No one cannot tell me, the side effects of that testis being undesenced causing

hypogandism, because its one of the primary causes, didnt effect me very very

early in life. I felt depressed and withdrawn before the age of 10. At 10 I had

surgery to descend. That surgery should have occurred before the age of 2

because after, it would cause ill-reversable complications. Fact.

I could have had a fighting chance, right after the surgery, If I was put on

TRT. The percentage that I successfully matured during puberty would have been

great, instead it was the opposite.

Given that time line and the years of having the side effects control my

existence, (not to forget my learning disabilities that stopped receiving care,

once I went into Junior HS), (Older males only experince half of the side

effects Vickie from hypogandism, its much more)

Do you think it was fair for you to compare me with your child or children if

they got (God Forbid) unhealthy to date?

It doesnt matter the answer. I met a female that blamed me because I was

unemployed, and this is after I explained my health problem. She still thought I

was lazy and used my health as an excuse.

Silly me, all I wanted was to find happiness. I figured explain your health,

because its the only reason why Im not working. I dont have a huge penis, so I

cant balance out not working. Atleast if I did, I could offer that and she would

be happy and love me.

I wish I knew I had a health problem earlier. I could have been trained to

combat it and handle socialable / learning situations. She had some form of

birth control device within her and got sick at times. She compared her going to

the hospital while working, to my situations which wasnt fair.

My mentality may never be corrected. Something I must live with.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Im sorry to read about your oldest child Vickie. May I ask, how has that

syndrome effected her social and life abilities?

I would like to know when did you and the schools conclude she had a learning

disability? Also, did she receive special attention while in HS?

Was she able to graduate? If your daughter didnt receive special attention from

doctors, yourself, and schools do you feel she would have favored the same

currently or lessened?

Vickie, my heart is pure so please don't feel offended. I just learned s

Diease effects females in sole, from a Law and Order show. I realized females

can also have their own form of hypogonadism like side effects. And also feel

inferior.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

your primary,my blood results indicate secondary ie my

lh and fsh and testosterone are all on lowish side

i would not of known if it was not for good people on

here,i have the problems but had no names ,same as i

had no names for all my other issues till 4 yrd ago

niow i have proper diagnosis forr my

adhd/aspwrgers/dyspraxia but not a proper one for

hypogonadism as uk undestanding in oiur health system

isd pooor,wht he did give me was the andropause

diagnosis though so unutl i can afford a privsate

physician that will have to do

as for trt well atn my age and having 40yrs of this

non functioning i am way too scared to even trry trt

,especially as thats all my endo who is a diabetic end

and not specilaist in sexual issues will prescribe,and

that on its own it seems on looking on hwere can cause

more problems,most on here seem to advocate trt and

estradoil and other things,my endo was only going to

try trt,but my support team concluded its not a good

idea,and i had already gfelt that anyway.

the trouble is i actually as said hate having thoughts

of finding women attractvie and i hate my genitals so

just trt on its own is not all i need,i was even too

much and too deep for a sexual counsellor a couple of

yrs back who sawe my support needs as urgent and made

sure the local LD team prioritised me saying that

counselling on its own at moment is not going to work

with me i need deper phycological help than that.

on other hand now you are on TRT i hope for you this

is helping ,just casue i am too scared of myself and

my feelings ,i hope in time you do find someone and do

have kids if you want them,again for me i just cannot

do that marriage/kids and indeed sexual intercourse or

someone touching my body scare me,though in my last

relationship i was very good at giving foreplay to her

and she orgasmed often, and that made me feel good at

the time.

sadly she dumped me,used me even made a false

harrasment charge to ppolice and still owes me

money,so now i feel like crap again ,it took 18 yrs

for me to even get close to a woman again and yet

again i get crap she says she loved me,funny that in

may dumped,me week after still saying she loved me,in

juse she had a one night stand telling the guy she

loved him and wanted to marry him and have

children,whixh is what she wanted with me,he dumped

her and now she has split up a mariage and is with a 5

times married guy whose gots so many kids all taken

into care by social services,his wife he dumped as

soon as she has a kid social serrvices come in and

take it away!!!

and yes now i n 2 yrs time they get married and have

kids!!

so much forr loving me,all she wants is kids and

marriage with anyone,thats not love

so yes yused again,and owiung me money

anyway i feel we should not use this board for all

this,except for hyppogonadism issues itself ,so if you

ant to talk priavelty with me feel free via email

direct to me orr on messenger on my promachief

id

then we can rant and moan and share experiances

we cant expect othwers to know our pain on here,they

have there own issues,we can and should share how we

feel on here but also try and be midnful some things

are best ton talk more privately

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey , I understand not being able to work and

> live independently. I haven't worked in three years.

> Three years ago, I started going to doctors, to

> determine what was wrong with me mentally. Didnt

> know I was primary, because I never researched. I

> believed what the doctors said was why I had surgery

> to descend a testis. I didnt know it was the cause

> of all my hurt.

>

> I knew I had " man boobs " , so once I was in the

> mental health program, I asked to be referred to see

> why, and that's how I first learned of some hormonal

> disorder. The center sucked and couldn't tell me

> what was wrong; so they just treated my depression.

> Many meds during that year and none worked cause my

> T was very dangerously low.

>

> Last year, a mere blood test concluded from LH, FSH,

> and Low t I was primary. What caused primary?

> Unscended testis that negativity effected the other,

> during birth; surgerly desended years late without

> any form of TRT.

>

> , very few understand including males in here

> with hypgonadism. They are fortunate because their

> hypogonadism occurred not at birth but later in

> life. Atleast males in here got to bare children,

> educate, form friendships, love, be loved, etc. Side

> effects of hypogandism varies from male to male.

> Depression in another male may be stronger with

> other emotional difficulties in others.

>

> Years of emotional difficulties can never be

> questioned. A med just doesnt stop a lifetime of

> hurt. Its a process. I wish folks would understand

> that. Some may never get over the hurt.

>

> I'm trying to figure out without medication for

> emotional difficulties, how to live happy and

> content. All I know is shame, loneliness, self

> hating, and pain all my life.

>

> I know till the day I die, I must take TRT. I know

> if I stop for even one week, my emotional

> diffculties will surface again.

>

> It's a lifetime for and I. But understand, its

> not anyones fault in here and else where. Its

> refleshing in times to question others as they

> complain. Im sharing and not complaining.

> Complaining would detail I had some form of

> stability prior I wish to seek again.

>

> Should I hate my parents for not being more active

> in my health? Should I hate them for not being more

> like Vickie?

>

> Should I hate doctors for lying and not checking my

> hormonal levels?

>

> Should I continue to hate and be afraid of females?

> Is it their faults for not confronting me or is it

> my fault, for only showing a defeated living corpse?

>

> I dont get angry. Rarely am I within stressful and

> pressured situations.

>

> It hurts bad to see folks your age, successful. It

> hurts to be scared and ashamed to a point, I wait

> hours to get on a train because I feel I am

> inferior. Crowded areas scare me also. I hate them.

>

> I hate making eye contact and I always put my head

> down and play my rock music loud. The music

> sometimes make the superior humans invisionable.

> Then I realize, I am not normal and they are.

>

> Try feeling inferior when around others. Im beyond

> feeling inferior. No medication can correct this. I

> have to correct it some how.

>

> Understand, a lifetime of emotional difficulties

> from not being treated for hypgonadism, causes my

> words. Sure, I take my shots, not even a year yet,

> but Im trying. Its a process I dont know if I can

> wait to see the results from.

>

>

> Ill feel better when I find her. Even if it doesnt

> work out, atleast I have hope. I dont know if you

> have experienced relationships , but I so need

> that experience. I want to feel human and I feel, a

> girlfriend will provide that. Maybe Ill stop hating

> females for making me feel horrible inside.

>

>

> , I have always been heavely guarded. If I had

> to expose myself in school, I wouldnt no matter what

> or I would do it within a closed private

> environment. Being open, as I am here, is very very

> new. No one knew about my problems because I knew,

> they would pity and couldnt understand. Same for

> females. I made the few in my life, go away. I knew

> they wouldnt understand, so I spared them.

>

>

> A combination of having very low T and not having

> desires sexually, and simply knowing what I had

> wasnt good enough, I guess saved me the

> embarrassment of being within a sexual situation and

> having her either laugh, leave, or stay.

>

>

> I chose to pick females I knew deep inside, I had no

> chance with, and made the few that liked me, simply

> go away because I knew my secrets would come out and

> she would pick a male that was normal and healthy.

>

> I have explained my health and even gentialia to

> females online. I felt instead of run, why not have

> faith they can understand.

>

> Its a ........ to feel not good enough, even when

> you know you are. A decent and compassionate heart

> isnt good enough.

>

> , you are not lazy. You are a decent and good

> person. I wish I could give you something profound.

> The mind is so complex. I dont know if I will ever

> feel human. I dont know if I can over come all those

> years of darkness.

>

> , Im sure your country has programs for those

> with disabilities. Perhaps, if you havent yet, you

> can work on educational and social skills. I have

> seen TV shows with characters who had aspergers.

>

> Its another process , I will once again take

> with college, or extended HS in my view. I figured,

> the other times I tried I couldnt complete because I

> wasnt being treated. Now, Im being treated, the more

> I think, the more I feel its going to be me feeling

> inferior and hating myself and females more and

> more, preventing me from learning which would detail

> tutors, studying, and a desire on my part.

>

> Perhaps, I can be adult-adopted by Vickie.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new .

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

-hi vickie thanks

yes the internet gives me a voice i nbever had,i am

not good face to face or phones ,though i also have a

habit of upsetting internet groups as well,so its not

all good but at least its something,without the net i

wiould be lost,but it annoys me i only can take basic

facts on some things but not delve deep ebven on my

own hobbies.

i keep going round in circles and asking questions i

asked a hundred times before and just get stuck on

them and its anonying to people on some groups,so like

i now can remember low fsh/low lh and low t equals

hypogonafdsim secondary but then alll the other talk i

gwet lost on and then i try and relay them to my doc

etc and more misunderstnading so i print things out so

she can see them as me trying to explain i gwt all

tied up and lost.

and itsa like that in all the issues i have and indeed

my hobbies,i get so far then it just gwts all cinfsed

in my brain and find it hard ot brring out the

information as needed,and that goes forr emotional

intelligence as well.

regards paul

-- Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> ,

> I understand more than you relize. My oldest

> daughter has severe

> learning disabilities (Di syndrome). Although

> not the same as

> yours, we do have that as a constant challenge

> functionally and

> socially. She won't be independent but she is

> productive.

>

> I read your posts and think how very intelligent you

> are. Believe it

> or not...you're able to communicate your thoughts

> very well. The

> internet has given you such an ability to help

> yourself and others.

> You may find an acceptable solution to much of your

> physical /

> testosterone issues with all the incredible effeort

> you put into it.

> I hope the Ritilan is a good start! Good Luck,

> Vickie

>

>

> In , paul wey

> <promachief@...> wrote:

> >

> > hi mine and eliots sound very much alike

> >

> > i have learning diabikites that mean i cant read

> much

> > or take much in ,thats why i cant researrch things

> in

> > detail i can glance overr them but then just get

> > overloaded by it all

> >

> > whixh is why i am unable to work or live

> independantly

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > the problems i have with my genitals started to be

> > noiteced only at puberty and my othwer issues of

> being

> > on own and not wanting to participtate in

> > anything,lethargy,feeling totally alein to my

> peers

> > started way back for me knowing at about 6,my

> parents

> > knew someything was wrong with me emotionally at

> about

> > 3 as apparently i was not developping emotionally

> same

> > as my brrother and sis or indeed my peers and as

> soone

> > as i started school i knew i did not fit in

> ,bullyinf

> > starrted from that first day at school the sexual

> > isssues and not having any visible testicles added

> on

> > to this when 11 and going in for spiort at school

> > which i detested and by end of first years i

> refused

> > ever to do any more sports becasue of how i hated

> it.

> >

> > i never mixed with other kids and never knew whats

> > being a guy was supposed to be,never dated,never

> > parties,never had major hormonal issues at

> puberty,it

> > seemed to get everyone else but not me .

> >

> >

> > its vwery hard to be positive when you are male

> and

> > dont act male in any way,and by time i am now 40

> dont

> > even want to i want to be rid of my genitals as

> they

> > have caused me nothing but grief and are useless

> for

> > any manly purpose.

> >

> >

> > but the horrmonal issues came from witihn they are

> not

> > perpetuated by how i feel if that was the case as

> > saaid none of us would have hormonal issues,we

> would

> > just be happpy and all our probs would go away,in

> real

> > life that rarely happens ,not saying it does

> not,sfor

> > some positivity is a boost for me it means running

> > away from the problems

> >

> > for years i attempted to work and get on with my

> > life,i was just palying at it,putiing on a smile a

> > joke [often about my genitals] now i realise one

> has

> > to see ones prroblems and seek help,sadly the help

> is

> > hard to come by

> >

> >

> > if one has a short attention span as i do then

> trying

> > to help ioneself is not easy as within a couple of

> > mins i anm bored and want to do something else.

> >

> >

> > my life is in slow motion things most people do

> daiuly

> > takes me all week

> >

> > i was on one day,shave another,bather evey 3 weeks

> or

> > so,go out every 4 days or so,clean teeth every 3

> days

> > or so,if i do all or attempt all in one day i get

> > overloaded and hyper

> > which leads to more temper meltdowns.

> >

> > so i take life at a slow pace and even that can be

> too

> > fast sometimes

> >

> >

> > with help of others then its a bit better but

> getting

> > that help in uk is difficult,adhd and aspergers

> there

> > is little help let alone adult help.

> >

> > some say well all get together and support each

> > other,but that misses the point we are as

> aspiergers

> > loners how thwenhell do we gwet together,if we did

> it

> > would be like a war with all in the room

> disagreeing

> > as infact we do on support email groups,help has

> to be

> > one to one not group.

> >

> >

> > anyway just hoping i get my ritalin soon and just

> see

> > if it works or does not.

> >

> > regards and as said your support is valued but its

> > harder if you have learrning dissabiities and

> lifelong

> > low testosteron like i have and i beleive eliot

> has by

> > what he says

> >

> >

> > regards paul

> >

> > --- Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> >

> > > W,

> > > I mean this in the most kind way. Elliot may

> have

> > > some of your

> > > physical traits in common but his over all

> situation

> > > is very

> > > different than yours. You and Elliot can be of

> great

> > > support to one

> > > another in this group...as everyone is

> > > regardless....and my comment

> > > about stress depleting our reserves in hormones

> > > etc...I hope you

> > > will read the research out there. Many of our

> > > hormones are affected

> > > by long term stress.....so try to worry less and

> try

> > > to be happier

> > > more maybe? May sound like a pipe dream but it's

> > > free so no loss in

> > > investing with potential for long term wealth!

> > > Good Luck, Vickie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In , paul wey

> > > <promachief@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > ELIOT take it from me i know how you are

> feeling

> > > as i

> > > > am about the same,its ok to say let go of the

> > > anger

> > > > and hurt but if its still there and not

> resolved

> > > in

>

=== message truncated ===

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hey , I feel I also need more extreme therapy. Cheap therapist suck. Mine

should be drinking Starbucks and watching the Ellene Show rather than trying to

assist.

She says we are going to try " coping skills " , but she still asks me non coping

skill questions. Me, chatting with her like girlfriends. The only reason I chat

with her is because, I have no friends to talk with. I'm use to figuring things

out in my head.

I need someone stronger and more gifted at therapy. She doesn't ask why Im

still a V at my age. She dresses so nice and then when I comment thinks, I have

some wanker crush on her. I may be lonely but I do have standards.

, you need to start TRT. , it won't hurt so no need to be scared. The

only thing profound I felt was the lessening of depression but the social

withdrawal, etc is still present. No medication can correct that. I know once I

find my first girlfriend, I will feel better about myself and maybe, I will lift

my head up instead of feeling scared and inferior around others. I truly hate

going in the city.

I'm trying to go back to college but will not. Its a sign, saying Im simply

not ready. I know what will happen; Ill feel horrible, the work will be hard

given I need special attention, Ill see females and feel worst given they wont

find me attractive, and I will simply stop going, like always.

I dont know if I will ever get over the 29 years of self hate, unhealthiness,

fear, etc.

But , thats a realization that may not occur. I still hold on to faith

that I can be successful and something profound. It gets harder each day, living

alone. Folks still dont realize. Alone, no support, no friends, and never having

a girlfriend. I hate porn but yet, I must watch others living life, in which I

should. , I also realized I have to stop hating myself for the way my life

came about.

I never did anything illegal but its not my fault for my lack of experiences

and successes. I was simply sick from birth. Not every parent can step up and

research for their child, so that child can have a fighting chance.

Its not your fault neither . Atleast you got to spend time with a female.

Must of been a so-real experience. Realize the experience and not the part

of her choosing another path way. It happens, build from it. Atleast you can

attract.

your primary,my blood results indicate secondary ie my

lh and fsh and testosterone are all on lowish side

i would not of known if it was not for good people on

here,i have the problems but had no names ,same as i

had no names for all my other issues till 4 yrd ago

niow i have proper diagnosis forr my

adhd/aspwrgers/dyspraxia but not a proper one for

hypogonadism as uk undestanding in oiur health system

isd pooor,wht he did give me was the andropause

diagnosis though so unutl i can afford a privsate

physician that will have to do

as for trt well atn my age and having 40yrs of this

non functioning i am way too scared to even trry trt

,especially as thats all my endo who is a diabetic end

and not specilaist in sexual issues will prescribe,and

that on its own it seems on looking on hwere can cause

more problems,most on here seem to advocate trt and

estradoil and other things,my endo was only going to

try trt,but my support team concluded its not a good

idea,and i had already gfelt that anyway.

the trouble is i actually as said hate having thoughts

of finding women attractvie and i hate my genitals so

just trt on its own is not all i need,i was even too

much and too deep for a sexual counsellor a couple of

yrs back who sawe my support needs as urgent and made

sure the local LD team prioritised me saying that

counselling on its own at moment is not going to work

with me i need deper phycological help than that.

on other hand now you are on TRT i hope for you this

is helping ,just casue i am too scared of myself and

my feelings ,i hope in time you do find someone and do

have kids if you want them,again for me i just cannot

do that marriage/kids and indeed sexual intercourse or

someone touching my body scare me,though in my last

relationship i was very good at giving foreplay to her

and she orgasmed often, and that made me feel good at

the time.

sadly she dumped me,used me even made a false

harrasment charge to ppolice and still owes me

money,so now i feel like crap again ,it took 18 yrs

for me to even get close to a woman again and yet

again i get crap she says she loved me,funny that in

may dumped,me week after still saying she loved me,in

juse she had a one night stand telling the guy she

loved him and wanted to marry him and have

children,whixh is what she wanted with me,he dumped

her and now she has split up a mariage and is with a 5

times married guy whose gots so many kids all taken

into care by social services,his wife he dumped as

soon as she has a kid social serrvices come in and

take it away!!!

and yes now i n 2 yrs time they get married and have

kids!!

so much forr loving me,all she wants is kids and

marriage with anyone,thats not love

so yes yused again,and owiung me money

anyway i feel we should not use this board for all

this,except for hyppogonadism issues itself ,so if you

ant to talk priavelty with me feel free via email

direct to me orr on messenger on my promachief

id

then we can rant and moan and share experiances

we cant expect othwers to know our pain on here,they

have there own issues,we can and should share how we

feel on here but also try and be midnful some things

are best ton talk more privately

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

> Hey , I understand not being able to work and

> live independently. I haven't worked in three years.

> Three years ago, I started going to doctors, to

> determine what was wrong with me mentally. Didnt

> know I was primary, because I never researched. I

> believed what the doctors said was why I had surgery

> to descend a testis. I didnt know it was the cause

> of all my hurt.

>

> I knew I had " man boobs " , so once I was in the

> mental health program, I asked to be referred to see

> why, and that's how I first learned of some hormonal

> disorder. The center sucked and couldn't tell me

> what was wrong; so they just treated my depression.

> Many meds during that year and none worked cause my

> T was very dangerously low.

>

> Last year, a mere blood test concluded from LH, FSH,

> and Low t I was primary. What caused primary?

> Unscended testis that negativity effected the other,

> during birth; surgerly desended years late without

> any form of TRT.

>

> , very few understand including males in here

> with hypgonadism. They are fortunate because their

> hypogonadism occurred not at birth but later in

> life. Atleast males in here got to bare children,

> educate, form friendships, love, be loved, etc. Side

> effects of hypogandism varies from male to male.

> Depression in another male may be stronger with

> other emotional difficulties in others.

>

> Years of emotional difficulties can never be

> questioned. A med just doesnt stop a lifetime of

> hurt. Its a process. I wish folks would understand

> that. Some may never get over the hurt.

>

> I'm trying to figure out without medication for

> emotional difficulties, how to live happy and

> content. All I know is shame, loneliness, self

> hating, and pain all my life.

>

> I know till the day I die, I must take TRT. I know

> if I stop for even one week, my emotional

> diffculties will surface again.

>

> It's a lifetime for and I. But understand, its

> not anyones fault in here and else where. Its

> refleshing in times to question others as they

> complain. Im sharing and not complaining.

> Complaining would detail I had some form of

> stability prior I wish to seek again.

>

> Should I hate my parents for not being more active

> in my health? Should I hate them for not being more

> like Vickie?

>

> Should I hate doctors for lying and not checking my

> hormonal levels?

>

> Should I continue to hate and be afraid of females?

> Is it their faults for not confronting me or is it

> my fault, for only showing a defeated living corpse?

>

> I dont get angry. Rarely am I within stressful and

> pressured situations.

>

> It hurts bad to see folks your age, successful. It

> hurts to be scared and ashamed to a point, I wait

> hours to get on a train because I feel I am

> inferior. Crowded areas scare me also. I hate them.

>

> I hate making eye contact and I always put my head

> down and play my rock music loud. The music

> sometimes make the superior humans invisionable.

> Then I realize, I am not normal and they are.

>

> Try feeling inferior when around others. Im beyond

> feeling inferior. No medication can correct this. I

> have to correct it some how.

>

> Understand, a lifetime of emotional difficulties

> from not being treated for hypgonadism, causes my

> words. Sure, I take my shots, not even a year yet,

> but Im trying. Its a process I dont know if I can

> wait to see the results from.

>

>

> Ill feel better when I find her. Even if it doesnt

> work out, atleast I have hope. I dont know if you

> have experienced relationships , but I so need

> that experience. I want to feel human and I feel, a

> girlfriend will provide that. Maybe Ill stop hating

> females for making me feel horrible inside.

>

>

> , I have always been heavely guarded. If I had

> to expose myself in school, I wouldnt no matter what

> or I would do it within a closed private

> environment. Being open, as I am here, is very very

> new. No one knew about my problems because I knew,

> they would pity and couldnt understand. Same for

> females. I made the few in my life, go away. I knew

> they wouldnt understand, so I spared them.

>

>

> A combination of having very low T and not having

> desires sexually, and simply knowing what I had

> wasnt good enough, I guess saved me the

> embarrassment of being within a sexual situation and

> having her either laugh, leave, or stay.

>

>

> I chose to pick females I knew deep inside, I had no

> chance with, and made the few that liked me, simply

> go away because I knew my secrets would come out and

> she would pick a male that was normal and healthy.

>

> I have explained my health and even gentialia to

> females online. I felt instead of run, why not have

> faith they can understand.

>

> Its a ........ to feel not good enough, even when

> you know you are. A decent and compassionate heart

> isnt good enough.

>

> , you are not lazy. You are a decent and good

> person. I wish I could give you something profound.

> The mind is so complex. I dont know if I will ever

> feel human. I dont know if I can over come all those

> years of darkness.

>

> , Im sure your country has programs for those

> with disabilities. Perhaps, if you havent yet, you

> can work on educational and social skills. I have

> seen TV shows with characters who had aspergers.

>

> Its another process , I will once again take

> with college, or extended HS in my view. I figured,

> the other times I tried I couldnt complete because I

> wasnt being treated. Now, Im being treated, the more

> I think, the more I feel its going to be me feeling

> inferior and hating myself and females more and

> more, preventing me from learning which would detail

> tutors, studying, and a desire on my part.

>

> Perhaps, I can be adult-adopted by Vickie.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new .

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

trouble is the only gilrs who have enver found me

attractive have only been after money,not that i have

a lot on benefits but often more than they do!!

no girrls has found me attractive for me.

i use porn often its perfectly acceptable but really i

dont want it or any interest in girls,just seeing

girls when i was woking/college or if i leave the

house gets me going and intereupts my thinking and i

want to be rid of findming interest in females when my

body and mind cant do anything about it,even doing

things myself is hard work to maintain erection and

interest andi ndeed sometimes is even uncomfortable

and hardly worth doing.

trt with the endo i saw was trt only and no HCG or

others things the good people on here say really need

to vbe looked at i woill not put my self in the hands

of an endo whose only knowledge is diabetes,its like

having a vasectomy by a pharmacist,ie not the right

person with sufficient knowledge to do the job.

and also the onyl thing i want to try is my RITALIN

for adhd which i have luckily got the go ahead to

start on novemeber 21st,i dont want to be taking any

meds that may affect me as well ,i need to see what

ritalin does or does not do,befiore trying other meds

for adhd learning problems or indeed testosterone

replacement.

my support is overseen by a phyicatirst and he decided

whether i can or cant do anything,so he has told the

endo not to give me trt and thats that,now i had the

same issue with gtting ritalin,but that was differant

as the speiclaist who diagonsed me with adhd was the

one recomending meds and they are uk specialsits in

adhd management,wheras my endo is specialised in

diabetes so to me thats not good enough.

regarrds paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hey , I feel I also need more extreme therapy.

> Cheap therapist suck. Mine should be drinking

> Starbucks and watching the Ellene Show rather than

> trying to assist.

> She says we are going to try " coping skills " , but

> she still asks me non coping skill questions. Me,

> chatting with her like girlfriends. The only reason

> I chat with her is because, I have no friends to

> talk with. I'm use to figuring things out in my

> head.

>

> I need someone stronger and more gifted at

> therapy. She doesn't ask why Im still a V at my age.

> She dresses so nice and then when I comment thinks,

> I have some wanker crush on her. I may be lonely but

> I do have standards.

>

> , you need to start TRT. , it won't hurt

> so no need to be scared. The only thing profound I

> felt was the lessening of depression but the social

> withdrawal, etc is still present. No medication can

> correct that. I know once I find my first

> girlfriend, I will feel better about myself and

> maybe, I will lift my head up instead of feeling

> scared and inferior around others. I truly hate

> going in the city.

>

> I'm trying to go back to college but will not. Its

> a sign, saying Im simply not ready. I know what will

> happen; Ill feel horrible, the work will be hard

> given I need special attention, Ill see females and

> feel worst given they wont find me attractive, and I

> will simply stop going, like always.

>

> I dont know if I will ever get over the 29 years

> of self hate, unhealthiness, fear, etc.

>

> But , thats a realization that may not occur.

> I still hold on to faith that I can be successful

> and something profound. It gets harder each day,

> living alone. Folks still dont realize. Alone, no

> support, no friends, and never having a girlfriend.

> I hate porn but yet, I must watch others living

> life, in which I should. , I also realized I

> have to stop hating myself for the way my life came

> about.

>

> I never did anything illegal but its not my fault

> for my lack of experiences and successes. I was

> simply sick from birth. Not every parent can step up

> and research for their child, so that child can have

> a fighting chance.

>

> Its not your fault neither . Atleast you got

> to spend time with a female. Must of been a so-real

> experience. Realize the experience and not the

> part of her choosing another path way. It happens,

> build from it. Atleast you can attract.

>

>

>

> your primary,my blood results indicate secondary

> ie my

> lh and fsh and testosterone are all on lowish side

>

> i would not of known if it was not for good people

> on

> here,i have the problems but had no names ,same as i

> had no names for all my other issues till 4 yrd ago

> niow i have proper diagnosis forr my

> adhd/aspwrgers/dyspraxia but not a proper one for

> hypogonadism as uk undestanding in oiur health

> system

> isd pooor,wht he did give me was the andropause

> diagnosis though so unutl i can afford a privsate

> physician that will have to do

>

> as for trt well atn my age and having 40yrs of this

> non functioning i am way too scared to even trry trt

> ,especially as thats all my endo who is a diabetic

> end

> and not specilaist in sexual issues will

> prescribe,and

> that on its own it seems on looking on hwere can

> cause

> more problems,most on here seem to advocate trt and

> estradoil and other things,my endo was only going to

> try trt,but my support team concluded its not a good

> idea,and i had already gfelt that anyway.

>

> the trouble is i actually as said hate having

> thoughts

> of finding women attractvie and i hate my genitals

> so

> just trt on its own is not all i need,i was even too

> much and too deep for a sexual counsellor a couple

> of

> yrs back who sawe my support needs as urgent and

> made

> sure the local LD team prioritised me saying that

> counselling on its own at moment is not going to

> work

> with me i need deper phycological help than that.

>

> on other hand now you are on TRT i hope for you this

> is helping ,just casue i am too scared of myself and

> my feelings ,i hope in time you do find someone and

> do

> have kids if you want them,again for me i just

> cannot

> do that marriage/kids and indeed sexual intercourse

> or

> someone touching my body scare me,though in my last

> relationship i was very good at giving foreplay to

> her

> and she orgasmed often, and that made me feel good

> at

> the time.

>

> sadly she dumped me,used me even made a false

> harrasment charge to ppolice and still owes me

> money,so now i feel like crap again ,it took 18 yrs

> for me to even get close to a woman again and yet

> again i get crap she says she loved me,funny that in

> may dumped,me week after still saying she loved

> me,in

> juse she had a one night stand telling the guy she

> loved him and wanted to marry him and have

> children,whixh is what she wanted with me,he dumped

> her and now she has split up a mariage and is with a

> 5

> times married guy whose gots so many kids all taken

> into care by social services,his wife he dumped as

> soon as she has a kid social serrvices come in and

> take it away!!!

>

>

> and yes now i n 2 yrs time they get married and have

> kids!!

>

> so much forr loving me,all she wants is kids and

> marriage with anyone,thats not love

>

> so yes yused again,and owiung me money

>

> anyway i feel we should not use this board for all

> this,except for hyppogonadism issues itself ,so if

> you

> ant to talk priavelty with me feel free via email

> direct to me orr on messenger on my promachief

> id

>

>

> then we can rant and moan and share experiances

>

>

> we cant expect othwers to know our pain on here,they

> have there own issues,we can and should share how we

> feel on here but also try and be midnful some things

> are best ton talk more privately

>

> regards paul

> --- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

>

> > Hey , I understand not being able to work and

> > live independently. I haven't worked in three

> years.

> > Three years ago, I started going to doctors, to

> > determine what was wrong with me mentally. Didnt

> > know I was primary, because I never researched. I

> > believed what the doctors said was why I had

> surgery

> > to descend a testis. I didnt know it was the cause

> > of all my hurt.

> >

> > I knew I had " man boobs " , so once I was in the

> > mental health program, I asked to be referred to

> see

> > why, and that's how I first learned of some

> hormonal

> > disorder. The center sucked and couldn't tell me

> > what was wrong; so they just treated my

> depression.

> > Many meds during that year and none worked cause

> my

> > T was very dangerously low.

> >

> > Last year, a mere blood test concluded from LH,

> FSH,

> > and Low t I was primary. What caused primary?

> > Unscended testis that negativity effected the

> other,

> > during birth; surgerly desended years late without

> > any form of TRT.

> >

> > , very few understand including males in here

> > with hypgonadism. They are fortunate because their

> > hypogonadism occurred not at birth but later in

> > life. Atleast males in here got to bare children,

> > educate, form friendships, love, be loved, etc.

> Side

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Be careful with those stimulates found in most of ADHD medications. I read they

also have Meth, which is an illegal drug. I can't buy trouble. Geesh, all my

life I have avoided trouble and those that cause it.

You get to a point where relationships, etc isn't worth trying to connect

towards. Cool you have " benefits " . Don't know what that refers toward over

there... Hope its safe and legal.

, HCG isnt for primary males. It will not stimulate the testis. We both

should of had HCG pre puberty, but.... Its not our faults.

If you talk with your doctors again, bring up, if you're on the proper TRT,

the depressive stages lessens. It won't solve your emotional difficulties, but

its a start along with therapy.

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

trouble is the only gilrs who have enver found me

attractive have only been after money,not that i have

a lot on benefits but often more than they do!!

no girrls has found me attractive for me.

i use porn often its perfectly acceptable but really i

dont want it or any interest in girls,just seeing

girls when i was woking/college or if i leave the

house gets me going and intereupts my thinking and i

want to be rid of findming interest in females when my

body and mind cant do anything about it,even doing

things myself is hard work to maintain erection and

interest andi ndeed sometimes is even uncomfortable

and hardly worth doing.

trt with the endo i saw was trt only and no HCG or

others things the good people on here say really need

to vbe looked at i woill not put my self in the hands

of an endo whose only knowledge is diabetes,its like

having a vasectomy by a pharmacist,ie not the right

person with sufficient knowledge to do the job.

and also the onyl thing i want to try is my RITALIN

for adhd which i have luckily got the go ahead to

start on novemeber 21st,i dont want to be taking any

meds that may affect me as well ,i need to see what

ritalin does or does not do,befiore trying other meds

for adhd learning problems or indeed testosterone

replacement.

my support is overseen by a phyicatirst and he decided

whether i can or cant do anything,so he has told the

endo not to give me trt and thats that,now i had the

same issue with gtting ritalin,but that was differant

as the speiclaist who diagonsed me with adhd was the

one recomending meds and they are uk specialsits in

adhd management,wheras my endo is specialised in

diabetes so to me thats not good enough.

regarrds paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

> Hey , I feel I also need more extreme therapy.

> Cheap therapist suck. Mine should be drinking

> Starbucks and watching the Ellene Show rather than

> trying to assist.

> She says we are going to try " coping skills " , but

> she still asks me non coping skill questions. Me,

> chatting with her like girlfriends. The only reason

> I chat with her is because, I have no friends to

> talk with. I'm use to figuring things out in my

> head.

>

> I need someone stronger and more gifted at

> therapy. She doesn't ask why Im still a V at my age.

> She dresses so nice and then when I comment thinks,

> I have some wanker crush on her. I may be lonely but

> I do have standards.

>

> , you need to start TRT. , it won't hurt

> so no need to be scared. The only thing profound I

> felt was the lessening of depression but the social

> withdrawal, etc is still present. No medication can

> correct that. I know once I find my first

> girlfriend, I will feel better about myself and

> maybe, I will lift my head up instead of feeling

> scared and inferior around others. I truly hate

> going in the city.

>

> I'm trying to go back to college but will not. Its

> a sign, saying Im simply not ready. I know what will

> happen; Ill feel horrible, the work will be hard

> given I need special attention, Ill see females and

> feel worst given they wont find me attractive, and I

> will simply stop going, like always.

>

> I dont know if I will ever get over the 29 years

> of self hate, unhealthiness, fear, etc.

>

> But , thats a realization that may not occur.

> I still hold on to faith that I can be successful

> and something profound. It gets harder each day,

> living alone. Folks still dont realize. Alone, no

> support, no friends, and never having a girlfriend.

> I hate porn but yet, I must watch others living

> life, in which I should. , I also realized I

> have to stop hating myself for the way my life came

> about.

>

> I never did anything illegal but its not my fault

> for my lack of experiences and successes. I was

> simply sick from birth. Not every parent can step up

> and research for their child, so that child can have

> a fighting chance.

>

> Its not your fault neither . Atleast you got

> to spend time with a female. Must of been a so-real

> experience. Realize the experience and not the

> part of her choosing another path way. It happens,

> build from it. Atleast you can attract.

>

>

>

> your primary,my blood results indicate secondary

> ie my

> lh and fsh and testosterone are all on lowish side

>

> i would not of known if it was not for good people

> on

> here,i have the problems but had no names ,same as i

> had no names for all my other issues till 4 yrd ago

> niow i have proper diagnosis forr my

> adhd/aspwrgers/dyspraxia but not a proper one for

> hypogonadism as uk undestanding in oiur health

> system

> isd pooor,wht he did give me was the andropause

> diagnosis though so unutl i can afford a privsate

> physician that will have to do

>

> as for trt well atn my age and having 40yrs of this

> non functioning i am way too scared to even trry trt

> ,especially as thats all my endo who is a diabetic

> end

> and not specilaist in sexual issues will

> prescribe,and

> that on its own it seems on looking on hwere can

> cause

> more problems,most on here seem to advocate trt and

> estradoil and other things,my endo was only going to

> try trt,but my support team concluded its not a good

> idea,and i had already gfelt that anyway.

>

> the trouble is i actually as said hate having

> thoughts

> of finding women attractvie and i hate my genitals

> so

> just trt on its own is not all i need,i was even too

> much and too deep for a sexual counsellor a couple

> of

> yrs back who sawe my support needs as urgent and

> made

> sure the local LD team prioritised me saying that

> counselling on its own at moment is not going to

> work

> with me i need deper phycological help than that.

>

> on other hand now you are on TRT i hope for you this

> is helping ,just casue i am too scared of myself and

> my feelings ,i hope in time you do find someone and

> do

> have kids if you want them,again for me i just

> cannot

> do that marriage/kids and indeed sexual intercourse

> or

> someone touching my body scare me,though in my last

> relationship i was very good at giving foreplay to

> her

> and she orgasmed often, and that made me feel good

> at

> the time.

>

> sadly she dumped me,used me even made a false

> harrasment charge to ppolice and still owes me

> money,so now i feel like crap again ,it took 18 yrs

> for me to even get close to a woman again and yet

> again i get crap she says she loved me,funny that in

> may dumped,me week after still saying she loved

> me,in

> juse she had a one night stand telling the guy she

> loved him and wanted to marry him and have

> children,whixh is what she wanted with me,he dumped

> her and now she has split up a mariage and is with a

> 5

> times married guy whose gots so many kids all taken

> into care by social services,his wife he dumped as

> soon as she has a kid social serrvices come in and

> take it away!!!

>

>

> and yes now i n 2 yrs time they get married and have

> kids!!

>

> so much forr loving me,all she wants is kids and

> marriage with anyone,thats not love

>

> so yes yused again,and owiung me money

>

> anyway i feel we should not use this board for all

> this,except for hyppogonadism issues itself ,so if

> you

> ant to talk priavelty with me feel free via email

> direct to me orr on messenger on my promachief

> id

>

>

> then we can rant and moan and share experiances

>

>

> we cant expect othwers to know our pain on here,they

> have there own issues,we can and should share how we

> feel on here but also try and be midnful some things

> are best ton talk more privately

>

> regards paul

> --- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

>

> > Hey , I understand not being able to work and

> > live independently. I haven't worked in three

> years.

> > Three years ago, I started going to doctors, to

> > determine what was wrong with me mentally. Didnt

> > know I was primary, because I never researched. I

> > believed what the doctors said was why I had

> surgery

> > to descend a testis. I didnt know it was the cause

> > of all my hurt.

> >

> > I knew I had " man boobs " , so once I was in the

> > mental health program, I asked to be referred to

> see

> > why, and that's how I first learned of some

> hormonal

> > disorder. The center sucked and couldn't tell me

> > what was wrong; so they just treated my

> depression.

> > Many meds during that year and none worked cause

> my

> > T was very dangerously low.

> >

> > Last year, a mere blood test concluded from LH,

> FSH,

> > and Low t I was primary. What caused primary?

> > Unscended testis that negativity effected the

> other,

> > during birth; surgerly desended years late without

> > any form of TRT.

> >

> > , very few understand including males in here

> > with hypgonadism. They are fortunate because their

> > hypogonadism occurred not at birth but later in

> > life. Atleast males in here got to bare children,

> > educate, form friendships, love, be loved, etc.

> Side

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

---talking with the docs is impossible

we only get to see someone like an endo every 4-6

months and as aaid the endo i have is a diabetic endo

who has aboslutleyl no idea about the isuses i havce

and idd not evwen ask me any questions on my

life/sexual dysfunction or anytihng,his putting me on

trt injections only with no other look into hormonal

issues i have to me is dangerous and i would not trust

anything he says.

yes there are risks with ADHD MEDS but just as there

is with trt/blood pressure meds and so on,miost drugs

we have are in some form illegal,hey look at trt if

just usued as steroids there use is also illegal and

if not correctly managed then extremely dangerous,in

the uk nhs i dont think there is sufficient klnowledge

and support on male hormones issues,maybe in 10 yrs

time we will have more knowledge and experts in the

nhs who can safley manage the issues i and others have

but at moment no,well certainly not at my hosptial

anyway.

as for the ritalin we will start on lowest dose

going,i know many who this has helped and some it has

not,i know that in fact due to my weight and bp i may

die on first table,but hey i have no life anyway so it

does not bother me if thatnhappens,i intend to try one

drug,then another and another if none work then fine i

can say ok i have tried and thats all anyone can sask.

so if my concentration goes iup but my moods do as

well,then i will stop,if my moods stabiuliese and

concentration stays as bad as it is,then i may stay on

it,it just depends what is affected and how

there has been a lot of rubbish in medai about these

meds

the funniest ones is paretns saying

" my child cant sleep has tics/mood swings and bad

concetration since going on italin "

well if thats trues then how on earrth did they get an

adhd diagnosis in first place as those are part of the

diagnosis,and throughout my life without drugs these

go up and down anyway,i cant blame instances on drugs

as i have not takenn any before.

they are a naturral part of what i have now in

adulthood had diagnosed,i am sad to say but a lot of

parents dont seem to realise this.

millions of people have used ritalin and similar forr

20 plus yrs now in fact stimulants were given ovwer 75

yrs ago to the predecessors of what we know call

adhd,its not new at all.

i am skpptical and in fact dont actually believe it

will help me,but i want to be able to rule it in or

out.

the anti ritalin brigade say " too many people being

given these dangerous drugs " well if so then why arre

we not hearing of loads dying each day,if as in uk we

have 350 thousand on ritalin then we should also be

seeing an upturn in deaths and injury,yes sure it may

not work,if it does nbot then so be it,it does not

make a drrug bad becsue it made some affects worse,you

go off it and try something else,trouble is parrents

especially assume it will work for all and then start

gwtting upset cause it did not work for there littl

johnny.

if i had an endo in uk who was part of our free NHS

who has the same interest and experiance as my adhd

professor thn i may well look at trt but i am not

going to put my faith in the hands of a specialist who

i had to convince there was any problems and in end

said " partial androgen deficinecy " but in fact said i

was not hypogonadism secondary as to be so ones lh and

fsh would have to be abnormally high!!

clearly someone who is not an expert in this field and

so i wont put any faith in him and refuse to see him

again and there is no one esle.

regards paul

ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Be careful with those stimulates found in most of

> ADHD medications. I read they also have Meth, which

> is an illegal drug. I can't buy trouble. Geesh, all

> my life I have avoided trouble and those that cause

> it.

>

> You get to a point where relationships, etc isn't

> worth trying to connect towards. Cool you have

> " benefits " . Don't know what that refers toward over

> there... Hope its safe and legal.

>

> , HCG isnt for primary males. It will not

> stimulate the testis. We both should of had HCG pre

> puberty, but.... Its not our faults.

>

> If you talk with your doctors again, bring up, if

> you're on the proper TRT, the depressive stages

> lessens. It won't solve your emotional difficulties,

> but its a start along with therapy.

>

>

>

> paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

> trouble is the only gilrs who have enver found me

> attractive have only been after money,not that i

> have

> a lot on benefits but often more than they do!!

>

>

> no girrls has found me attractive for me.

>

>

> i use porn often its perfectly acceptable but really

> i

> dont want it or any interest in girls,just seeing

> girls when i was woking/college or if i leave the

> house gets me going and intereupts my thinking and i

> want to be rid of findming interest in females when

> my

> body and mind cant do anything about it,even doing

> things myself is hard work to maintain erection and

> interest andi ndeed sometimes is even uncomfortable

> and hardly worth doing.

>

>

>

> trt with the endo i saw was trt only and no HCG or

> others things the good people on here say really

> need

> to vbe looked at i woill not put my self in the

> hands

> of an endo whose only knowledge is diabetes,its like

> having a vasectomy by a pharmacist,ie not the right

> person with sufficient knowledge to do the job.

>

>

> and also the onyl thing i want to try is my RITALIN

> for adhd which i have luckily got the go ahead to

> start on novemeber 21st,i dont want to be taking any

> meds that may affect me as well ,i need to see what

> ritalin does or does not do,befiore trying other

> meds

> for adhd learning problems or indeed testosterone

> replacement.

>

>

> my support is overseen by a phyicatirst and he

> decided

> whether i can or cant do anything,so he has told the

> endo not to give me trt and thats that,now i had the

> same issue with gtting ritalin,but that was

> differant

> as the speiclaist who diagonsed me with adhd was the

> one recomending meds and they are uk specialsits in

> adhd management,wheras my endo is specialised in

> diabetes so to me thats not good enough.

>

>

> regarrds paul

> --- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

>

> > Hey , I feel I also need more extreme therapy.

> > Cheap therapist suck. Mine should be drinking

> > Starbucks and watching the Ellene Show rather than

> > trying to assist.

> > She says we are going to try " coping skills " , but

> > she still asks me non coping skill questions. Me,

> > chatting with her like girlfriends. The only

> reason

> > I chat with her is because, I have no friends to

> > talk with. I'm use to figuring things out in my

> > head.

> >

> > I need someone stronger and more gifted at

> > therapy. She doesn't ask why Im still a V at my

> age.

> > She dresses so nice and then when I comment

> thinks,

> > I have some wanker crush on her. I may be lonely

> but

> > I do have standards.

> >

> > , you need to start TRT. , it won't hurt

> > so no need to be scared. The only thing profound I

> > felt was the lessening of depression but the

> social

> > withdrawal, etc is still present. No medication

> can

> > correct that. I know once I find my first

> > girlfriend, I will feel better about myself and

> > maybe, I will lift my head up instead of feeling

> > scared and inferior around others. I truly hate

> > going in the city.

> >

> > I'm trying to go back to college but will not. Its

> > a sign, saying Im simply not ready. I know what

> will

> > happen; Ill feel horrible, the work will be hard

> > given I need special attention, Ill see females

> and

> > feel worst given they wont find me attractive, and

> I

> > will simply stop going, like always.

> >

> > I dont know if I will ever get over the 29 years

> > of self hate, unhealthiness, fear, etc.

> >

> > But , thats a realization that may not occur.

> > I still hold on to faith that I can be successful

> > and something profound. It gets harder each day,

> > living alone. Folks still dont realize. Alone, no

> > support, no friends, and never having a

> girlfriend.

> > I hate porn but yet, I must watch others living

> > life, in which I should. , I also realized I

> > have to stop hating myself for the way my life

> came

> > about.

> >

> > I never did anything illegal but its not my fault

> > for my lack of experiences and successes. I was

> > simply sick from birth. Not every parent can step

> up

> > and research for their child, so that child can

> have

> > a fighting chance.

> >

> > Its not your fault neither . Atleast you got

> > to spend time with a female. Must of been a

> so-real

> > experience. Realize the experience and not

> the

> > part of her choosing another path way. It happens,

> > build from it. Atleast you can attract.

> >

> >

> >

> > your primary,my blood results indicate secondary

> > ie my

> > lh and fsh and testosterone are all on lowish side

>

> >

> > i would not of known if it was not for good people

> > on

> > here,i have the problems but had no names ,same as

> i

> > had no names for all my other issues till 4 yrd

> ago

> > niow i have proper diagnosis forr my

> > adhd/aspwrgers/dyspraxia but not a proper one for

> > hypogonadism as uk undestanding in oiur health

> > system

> > isd pooor,wht he did give me was the andropause

> > diagnosis though so unutl i can afford a privsate

> > physician that will have to do

> >

> > as for trt well atn my age and having 40yrs of

> this

> > non functioning i am way too scared to even trry

> trt

> > ,especially as thats all my endo who is a diabetic

> > end

> > and not specilaist in sexual issues will

> > prescribe,and

> > that on its own it seems on looking on hwere can

> > cause

> > more problems,most on here seem to advocate trt

> and

> > estradoil and other things,my endo was only going

> to

> > try trt,but my support team concluded its not a

> good

> > idea,and i had already gfelt that anyway.

> >

> > the trouble is i actually as said hate having

> > thoughts

> > of finding women attractvie and i hate my genitals

> > so

> > just trt on its own is not all i need,i was even

> too

> > much and too deep for a sexual counsellor a couple

>

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[Guest guest]

i am not primary perosnally beleive i am secondary

biut as said the endo was clueless and just sighed and

said ok i will put it down as partial androgen

defiecnecy

not a well though out diagnosis,

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Be careful with those stimulates found in most of

> ADHD medications. I read they also have Meth, which

> is an illegal drug. I can't buy trouble. Geesh, all

> my life I have avoided trouble and those that cause

> it.

>

> You get to a point where relationships, etc isn't

> worth trying to connect towards. Cool you have

> " benefits " . Don't know what that refers toward over

> there... Hope its safe and legal.

>

> , HCG isnt for primary males. It will not

> stimulate the testis. We both should of had HCG pre

> puberty, but.... Its not our faults.

>

> If you talk with your doctors again, bring up, if

> you're on the proper TRT, the depressive stages

> lessens. It won't solve your emotional difficulties,

> but its a start along with therapy.

>

>

>

> paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

> trouble is the only gilrs who have enver found me

> attractive have only been after money,not that i

> have

> a lot on benefits but often more than they do!!

>

>

> no girrls has found me attractive for me.

>

>

> i use porn often its perfectly acceptable but really

> i

> dont want it or any interest in girls,just seeing

> girls when i was woking/college or if i leave the

> house gets me going and intereupts my thinking and i

> want to be rid of findming interest in females when

> my

> body and mind cant do anything about it,even doing

> things myself is hard work to maintain erection and

> interest andi ndeed sometimes is even uncomfortable

> and hardly worth doing.

>

>

>

> trt with the endo i saw was trt only and no HCG or

> others things the good people on here say really

> need

> to vbe looked at i woill not put my self in the

> hands

> of an endo whose only knowledge is diabetes,its like

> having a vasectomy by a pharmacist,ie not the right

> person with sufficient knowledge to do the job.

>

>

> and also the onyl thing i want to try is my RITALIN

> for adhd which i have luckily got the go ahead to

> start on novemeber 21st,i dont want to be taking any

> meds that may affect me as well ,i need to see what

> ritalin does or does not do,befiore trying other

> meds

> for adhd learning problems or indeed testosterone

> replacement.

>

>

> my support is overseen by a phyicatirst and he

> decided

> whether i can or cant do anything,so he has told the

> endo not to give me trt and thats that,now i had the

> same issue with gtting ritalin,but that was

> differant

> as the speiclaist who diagonsed me with adhd was the

> one recomending meds and they are uk specialsits in

> adhd management,wheras my endo is specialised in

> diabetes so to me thats not good enough.

>

>

> regarrds paul

> --- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

>

> > Hey , I feel I also need more extreme therapy.

> > Cheap therapist suck. Mine should be drinking

> > Starbucks and watching the Ellene Show rather than

> > trying to assist.

> > She says we are going to try " coping skills " , but

> > she still asks me non coping skill questions. Me,

> > chatting with her like girlfriends. The only

> reason

> > I chat with her is because, I have no friends to

> > talk with. I'm use to figuring things out in my

> > head.

> >

> > I need someone stronger and more gifted at

> > therapy. She doesn't ask why Im still a V at my

> age.

> > She dresses so nice and then when I comment

> thinks,

> > I have some wanker crush on her. I may be lonely

> but

> > I do have standards.

> >

> > , you need to start TRT. , it won't hurt

> > so no need to be scared. The only thing profound I

> > felt was the lessening of depression but the

> social

> > withdrawal, etc is still present. No medication

> can

> > correct that. I know once I find my first

> > girlfriend, I will feel better about myself and

> > maybe, I will lift my head up instead of feeling

> > scared and inferior around others. I truly hate

> > going in the city.

> >

> > I'm trying to go back to college but will not. Its

> > a sign, saying Im simply not ready. I know what

> will

> > happen; Ill feel horrible, the work will be hard

> > given I need special attention, Ill see females

> and

> > feel worst given they wont find me attractive, and

> I

> > will simply stop going, like always.

> >

> > I dont know if I will ever get over the 29 years

> > of self hate, unhealthiness, fear, etc.

> >

> > But , thats a realization that may not occur.

> > I still hold on to faith that I can be successful

> > and something profound. It gets harder each day,

> > living alone. Folks still dont realize. Alone, no

> > support, no friends, and never having a

> girlfriend.

> > I hate porn but yet, I must watch others living

> > life, in which I should. , I also realized I

> > have to stop hating myself for the way my life

> came

> > about.

> >

> > I never did anything illegal but its not my fault

> > for my lack of experiences and successes. I was

> > simply sick from birth. Not every parent can step

> up

> > and research for their child, so that child can

> have

> > a fighting chance.

> >

> > Its not your fault neither . Atleast you got

> > to spend time with a female. Must of been a

> so-real

> > experience. Realize the experience and not

> the

> > part of her choosing another path way. It happens,

> > build from it. Atleast you can attract.

> >

> >

> >

> > your primary,my blood results indicate secondary

> > ie my

> > lh and fsh and testosterone are all on lowish side

>

> >

> > i would not of known if it was not for good people

> > on

> > here,i have the problems but had no names ,same as

> i

> > had no names for all my other issues till 4 yrd

> ago

> > niow i have proper diagnosis forr my

> > adhd/aspwrgers/dyspraxia but not a proper one for

> > hypogonadism as uk undestanding in oiur health

> > system

> > isd pooor,wht he did give me was the andropause

> > diagnosis though so unutl i can afford a privsate

> > physician that will have to do

> >

> > as for trt well atn my age and having 40yrs of

> this

> > non functioning i am way too scared to even trry

> trt

> > ,especially as thats all my endo who is a diabetic

> > end

> > and not specilaist in sexual issues will

> > prescribe,and

> > that on its own it seems on looking on hwere can

> > cause

> > more problems,most on here seem to advocate trt

> and

> > estradoil and other things,my endo was only going

> to

> > try trt,but my support team concluded its not a

> good

> > idea,and i had already gfelt that anyway.

> >

> > the trouble is i actually as said hate having

> > thoughts

> > of finding women attractvie and i hate my genitals

> > so

> > just trt on its own is not all i need,i was even

> too

> > much and too deep for a sexual counsellor a couple

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

Hi Elliot it is not true that HCG is not good for men that are Primary Dr.

has a lot of his men that are Primary on it. Doing TRT shuts down your LH and

FSH doing HCG stimulates all the LH recptor cells in ones body and brain. So if

a man is primary and his base levels were at 350 doing HCG will cause his Testis

to make 350mgs of T keeping them working as good as they can and the other LH

cells in are body. He feels it's not good to go thourgh life with out all

hormones working when we do TRT we shut down the LH adding HCG gets the cells

going again and most of us get a feeling of well being doing a HCG shot. One is

much better off on HCG with his TRT then not.

Phil

ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

Be careful with those stimulates found in most of ADHD medications. I

read they also have Meth, which is an illegal drug. I can't buy trouble. Geesh,

all my life I have avoided trouble and those that cause it.

You get to a point where relationships, etc isn't worth trying to connect

towards. Cool you have " benefits " . Don't know what that refers toward over

there... Hope its safe and legal.

, HCG isnt for primary males. It will not stimulate the testis. We both

should of had HCG pre puberty, but.... Its not our faults.

If you talk with your doctors again, bring up, if you're on the proper TRT, the

depressive stages lessens. It won't solve your emotional difficulties, but its a

start along with therapy.

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

trouble is the only gilrs who have enver found me

attractive have only been after money,not that i have

a lot on benefits but often more than they do!!

no girrls has found me attractive for me.

i use porn often its perfectly acceptable but really i

dont want it or any interest in girls,just seeing

girls when i was woking/college or if i leave the

house gets me going and intereupts my thinking and i

want to be rid of findming interest in females when my

body and mind cant do anything about it,even doing

things myself is hard work to maintain erection and

interest andi ndeed sometimes is even uncomfortable

and hardly worth doing.

trt with the endo i saw was trt only and no HCG or

others things the good people on here say really need

to vbe looked at i woill not put my self in the hands

of an endo whose only knowledge is diabetes,its like

having a vasectomy by a pharmacist,ie not the right

person with sufficient knowledge to do the job.

and also the onyl thing i want to try is my RITALIN

for adhd which i have luckily got the go ahead to

start on novemeber 21st,i dont want to be taking any

meds that may affect me as well ,i need to see what

ritalin does or does not do,befiore trying other meds

for adhd learning problems or indeed testosterone

replacement.

my support is overseen by a phyicatirst and he decided

whether i can or cant do anything,so he has told the

endo not to give me trt and thats that,now i had the

same issue with gtting ritalin,but that was differant

as the speiclaist who diagonsed me with adhd was the

one recomending meds and they are uk specialsits in

adhd management,wheras my endo is specialised in

diabetes so to me thats not good enough.

regarrds paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

> Hey , I feel I also need more extreme therapy.

> Cheap therapist suck. Mine should be drinking

> Starbucks and watching the Ellene Show rather than

> trying to assist.

> She says we are going to try " coping skills " , but

> she still asks me non coping skill questions. Me,

> chatting with her like girlfriends. The only reason

> I chat with her is because, I have no friends to

> talk with. I'm use to figuring things out in my

> head.

>

> I need someone stronger and more gifted at

> therapy. She doesn't ask why Im still a V at my age.

> She dresses so nice and then when I comment thinks,

> I have some wanker crush on her. I may be lonely but

> I do have standards.

>

> , you need to start TRT. , it won't hurt

> so no need to be scared. The only thing profound I

> felt was the lessening of depression but the social

> withdrawal, etc is still present. No medication can

> correct that. I know once I find my first

> girlfriend, I will feel better about myself and

> maybe, I will lift my head up instead of feeling

> scared and inferior around others. I truly hate

> going in the city.

>

> I'm trying to go back to college but will not. Its

> a sign, saying Im simply not ready. I know what will

> happen; Ill feel horrible, the work will be hard

> given I need special attention, Ill see females and

> feel worst given they wont find me attractive, and I

> will simply stop going, like always.

>

> I dont know if I will ever get over the 29 years

> of self hate, unhealthiness, fear, etc.

>

> But , thats a realization that may not occur.

> I still hold on to faith that I can be successful

> and something profound. It gets harder each day,

> living alone. Folks still dont realize. Alone, no

> support, no friends, and never having a girlfriend.

> I hate porn but yet, I must watch others living

> life, in which I should. , I also realized I

> have to stop hating myself for the way my life came

> about.

>

> I never did anything illegal but its not my fault

> for my lack of experiences and successes. I was

> simply sick from birth. Not every parent can step up

> and research for their child, so that child can have

> a fighting chance.

>

> Its not your fault neither . Atleast you got

> to spend time with a female. Must of been a so-real

> experience. Realize the experience and not the

> part of her choosing another path way. It happens,

> build from it. Atleast you can attract.

>

>

>

> your primary,my blood results indicate secondary

> ie my

> lh and fsh and testosterone are all on lowish side

>

> i would not of known if it was not for good people

> on

> here,i have the problems but had no names ,same as i

> had no names for all my other issues till 4 yrd ago

> niow i have proper diagnosis forr my

> adhd/aspwrgers/dyspraxia but not a proper one for

> hypogonadism as uk undestanding in oiur health

> system

> isd pooor,wht he did give me was the andropause

> diagnosis though so unutl i can afford a privsate

> physician that will have to do

>

> as for trt well atn my age and having 40yrs of this

> non functioning i am way too scared to even trry trt

> ,especially as thats all my endo who is a diabetic

> end

> and not specilaist in sexual issues will

> prescribe,and

> that on its own it seems on looking on hwere can

> cause

> more problems,most on here seem to advocate trt and

> estradoil and other things,my endo was only going to

> try trt,but my support team concluded its not a good

> idea,and i had already gfelt that anyway.

>

> the trouble is i actually as said hate having

> thoughts

> of finding women attractvie and i hate my genitals

> so

> just trt on its own is not all i need,i was even too

> much and too deep for a sexual counsellor a couple

> of

> yrs back who sawe my support needs as urgent and

> made

> sure the local LD team prioritised me saying that

> counselling on its own at moment is not going to

> work

> with me i need deper phycological help than that.

>

> on other hand now you are on TRT i hope for you this

> is helping ,just casue i am too scared of myself and

> my feelings ,i hope in time you do find someone and

> do

> have kids if you want them,again for me i just

> cannot

> do that marriage/kids and indeed sexual intercourse

> or

> someone touching my body scare me,though in my last

> relationship i was very good at giving foreplay to

> her

> and she orgasmed often, and that made me feel good

> at

> the time.

>

> sadly she dumped me,used me even made a false

> harrasment charge to ppolice and still owes me

> money,so now i feel like crap again ,it took 18 yrs

> for me to even get close to a woman again and yet

> again i get crap she says she loved me,funny that in

> may dumped,me week after still saying she loved

> me,in

> juse she had a one night stand telling the guy she

> loved him and wanted to marry him and have

> children,whixh is what she wanted with me,he dumped

> her and now she has split up a mariage and is with a

> 5

> times married guy whose gots so many kids all taken

> into care by social services,his wife he dumped as

> soon as she has a kid social serrvices come in and

> take it away!!!

>

>

> and yes now i n 2 yrs time they get married and have

> kids!!

>

> so much forr loving me,all she wants is kids and

> marriage with anyone,thats not love

>

> so yes yused again,and owiung me money

>

> anyway i feel we should not use this board for all

> this,except for hyppogonadism issues itself ,so if

> you

> ant to talk priavelty with me feel free via email

> direct to me orr on messenger on my promachief

> id

>

>

> then we can rant and moan and share experiances

>

>

> we cant expect othwers to know our pain on here,they

> have there own issues,we can and should share how we

> feel on here but also try and be midnful some things

> are best ton talk more privately

>

> regards paul

> --- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

>

> > Hey , I understand not being able to work and

> > live independently. I haven't worked in three

> years.

> > Three years ago, I started going to doctors, to

> > determine what was wrong with me mentally. Didnt

> > know I was primary, because I never researched. I

> > believed what the doctors said was why I had

> surgery

> > to descend a testis. I didnt know it was the cause

> > of all my hurt.

> >

> > I knew I had " man boobs " , so once I was in the

> > mental health program, I asked to be referred to

> see

> > why, and that's how I first learned of some

> hormonal

> > disorder. The center sucked and couldn't tell me

> > what was wrong; so they just treated my

> depression.

> > Many meds during that year and none worked cause

> my

> > T was very dangerously low.

> >

> > Last year, a mere blood test concluded from LH,

> FSH,

> > and Low t I was primary. What caused primary?

> > Unscended testis that negativity effected the

> other,

> > during birth; surgerly desended years late without

> > any form of TRT.

> >

> > , very few understand including males in here

> > with hypgonadism. They are fortunate because their

> > hypogonadism occurred not at birth but later in

> > life. Atleast males in here got to bare children,

> > educate, form friendships, love, be loved, etc.

> Side

>

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[Guest guest]

Remember , unlike cheating body builders, our T won't exceed the way normal

males does. The risk of some life threatening event is low, but without TRT it

becomes greater.

, you understand TRT and what its used for. This subject isn't new for you,

so Im confused in why you are afraid to try TRT(again?).

Use the net to find a suitable hormone Endocrine doctor near your area. Find one

and then see if that person takes your insurance or what is the out of pocket

fees.

Trust me, in America diabetes is more profitable than hormone therapy, but the

hospital center I attend allows me to be flexable on treatment with the two

attendings that know my situation. I have told them the gels are not working,

let me try injections.

One is more diabetes and the other is more impartial but, atleast I can take

what I have researched and see if they will allow me to try a new medication.

It seems you havent tried hard enough with your doctor to try new things you

have researched, regardless if he or she is a diabetes doctor; he or she is

still an Endocrine specialist and should know: low T needs to be seriously

combated with a TRT that works for the patient. If that doctors doesn't report

him or her!

Find someone you feel is knowledgeable by asking questions and reading up.

Perhaps, that doctor may work pro bono, given your story.

Your emotional disorders will not go away without some form of TRT treatment.

Use some of your " benefits " , to order either the gels or vial. We both know,

many males in here have much experience in how to use those TRT's and what doses

are ideal.

Its up to you . You have to stop getting mad over which doctor doesnt know

what and start being more pro active. Trust me, you will not become " normal "

over night; we both may never get there. The mind is sensitive. TRT isn't the

whole answer, but its a start along with therapy with a qualitied therapist.

In order to control happiness, as humans, we must correct all the elements that

makes living and being happy precluded within. For allot of souls like us,

living without happiness and stable health for so long may never happen. But,

it may and all we experienced will just be a distant memory.

Who knows the right love interest comes along, that will lead toward inner

strength and happiness, and then other profound events may occur .Thats what

Im hoping for.

If you're over weight, start losing weight. Try to correct the things in your

life that suck. Un stable health, starts with you seeking treatment. Your

country is a big place. Im sure you can find someone of value both medically and

privately.

I hate going on trains and being around people I secretly envy, but I must do

it, no matter how much it makes me feel inferior, because I know, one day I wont

feel so inferior and I will be working and communicating along side those that

scared me. I realize, its not their faults because I was born unhealthy so I

must continue to stop blaming them.

Humans within this generation, preceive you the way your actions dictate. Of

course you have ignorant souls that will only think the worst upon mine, you,

etc sight but overcome! and move on.

It hurts , this I know too well, but God isn't going to help us over come,

nor is anyone else. Its up to us to find redemption from elements we didnt cause

but is responsible for.

Chief nice ring. Great profession.

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

[Guest guest]

Good to see you are alive Phil. I read you and a wild bear had words and it got

ugly! I wish I could bring this Dr and converse what you just wrote about

HCG to my doctors.

I understand HCG doesnt stimulate the testis and so should you. It doesnt.

Nothing can stimulate testis that never had the ability to stimulate normally.

I could have had normal functioning testis pre puberty if on TRT, but that

doesnt help here and now. Remember Phil, I am not 29 and recently became primary

that may be secondary.

I was born this way and wasnt treated.

LH and FSH, from what I read will not stimulate and raise those levels if the

male is primary. HCG may make you feel better, over all, but having children may

only take a miracle and new medical technology.

Maybe Ill write to Dr and see if he can email or chat with one of my

attending Endo specialist I either or see monthly. I have a fourth opinion next

month at a higher scaled hospital which takes my inexpensive insurance oddly.

If your testis was never able to produce sperm Phil, you will always lack. TRT

cannot stop my testis from producing what they haven't being able to.

Thanks Mr Phil for trying.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

, I was under the impression, you were born with an undescended testis ( a

cause of primary hypogonadism), and it was never treated properly like myself.

Secondary males have lived a healthy life until something went unbalanced

causing hypogandism. Those males have experienced careers, relationships,

children, etc. They also can be corrected with higher success than primary

males.

If you feel you are secondary, , please get on TRT! Your pains can lessen.

Lack of DHT may be the cause of your small penis, but if you are thick and can

last more than 10 minutes, that indictates a mature penis around 6 inches, which

is pleasureable toward the typical female.

ED, etc indicates the penis is less mature caused by a number of medical

elements. My view and I know its correct. ED studies have always been driven in

the wrong directions; direction of profit over correction and cures.

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

[Guest guest]

hi elliot i dont think you know about UK NHS money

doews not come out of ones insurance unless one has

private healthcare

we get free healthcare you do have a little choice of

where to go,i could ask to see another endo but they

have to follow NHS guidleines if within the NHS so one

is stuck with them,to see another endo in NHS would

first of all find one who is interested in TRT as a

speciality[most who are interested i believe are in

private medicine one pays for] as even if in the NHS

they are fully acocuntable to NHS so if theyt wanted

to try something differant then NHS wouls ask why and

say " we only recomend trt and nothing else,not hcg or

any other stuff "

but first of all i would have to go to my own

doctorr,she if willing would have to refer me to a new

endo,that would take 4-6 months to see in first place

and at end of it one is still going to have an endo

follwing NHS guidelines which fall short of whats

available in USA

the NHS is way behind the uk private medicine and that

in usa i beleive.

also i am not after what trt can offer,i dont want to

even be thinking about the opposite sex i want all

thoughts of women to dissapear ,i have more improtant

things i need to be able to gwt to concentrate

on,wowme and emotions gwt in the way ofd that.

if someone knows of a pill that takes away any

interest in women i will take that.

so i dont have any intentions of wanting to settle

down or have relationships with anyone,i dont even

want many friends i get by with seeing my 2 main

friends every 3 mionths or so anything else i fidn

opressive.

its not a case of rejecting trt at all,its thsat

ritalin is firrst thing,then possible trt at later

date if i did both tohgether then how on earth would i

know what is doing what,i may think ritalini has

improved something and find its trt instead or vice

versa,so until i have tried one thing there is no

polint in trying something else on top of it.

losing weight i have no interest in ,i dont judgle

people by weight and size this is what iargue with my

phyiciatrist over,it annoys me he sees weight first

and my reall problems way down the list,i have been

perfect wright and size,was my penis bigger NO

was i happier NO

was i sleeping NO

weas i concentrating more NO

were my moods better NO

and 100 others things all the same as they are

regardelss of whatever wieght i have been.

if weight goes off me as i go on ritalin or indeed if

i went on trt then fine,but i am ok with my wieght,i

hate my genitals but i love my weight.

ritalin does supprss appetite in some so yes that may

indeed happen and so be it,if something i take changes

my wieght then i wont mind but i dont have the enrgy

to lose weigh or the concentration and thats what i

tell my team,how can i exercise and lose wirght with

concetration of a gnat??

i manage if luck 5 mins of running on the spot every

month or so,and after 2 mins i am already gwetting so

bored i lose the will to live,my mnd races around so

fast that anything i do soon becomes too much so i

dont clean teet/wash/bathe/shave each day even i may

do one task and quickly for a few seconds then leave

other jobs for other days.

thats the whol reason the ADHD medsa are first

priority rritalin/concerta/adderal/strattera/abilify

and all sorts i intedn to try and if and when local

NHS starts taking mens hormonses seriously and offer

the right treatments then fine,but at present thats

only available for those with the money to go off NHS

sand into priavate healthcare and thats not me .

also you cannot self refer in uk,you have to get your

own doctorr to refer and that is not an easy

process,if they say no i am not goiung to there is

precious little anyone can do,exscept change doctor

and start all over again,already done that once this

year!!

in usa its a totally differant system so i can see how

you may not realise how it is in UK

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

>

> Remember , unlike cheating body builders, our T

> won't exceed the way normal males does. The risk of

> some life threatening event is low, but without TRT

> it becomes greater.

>

> , you understand TRT and what its used for.

> This subject isn't new for you, so Im confused in

> why you are afraid to try TRT(again?).

>

> Use the net to find a suitable hormone Endocrine

> doctor near your area. Find one and then see if that

> person takes your insurance or what is the out of

> pocket fees.

>

> Trust me, in America diabetes is more profitable

> than hormone therapy, but the hospital center I

> attend allows me to be flexable on treatment with

> the two attendings that know my situation. I have

> told them the gels are not working, let me try

> injections.

>

> One is more diabetes and the other is more impartial

> but, atleast I can take what I have researched and

> see if they will allow me to try a new medication.

>

>

> It seems you havent tried hard enough with your

> doctor to try new things you have researched,

> regardless if he or she is a diabetes doctor; he or

> she is still an Endocrine specialist and should

> know: low T needs to be seriously combated with a

> TRT that works for the patient. If that doctors

> doesn't report him or her!

>

>

> Find someone you feel is knowledgeable by asking

> questions and reading up. Perhaps, that doctor may

> work pro bono, given your story.

>

>

> Your emotional disorders will not go away without

> some form of TRT treatment. Use some of your

> " benefits " , to order either the gels or vial. We

> both know, many males in here have much experience

> in how to use those TRT's and what doses are ideal.

>

> Its up to you . You have to stop getting mad

> over which doctor doesnt know what and start being

> more pro active. Trust me, you will not become

> " normal " over night; we both may never get there.

> The mind is sensitive. TRT isn't the whole answer,

> but its a start along with therapy with a qualitied

> therapist.

>

>

> In order to control happiness, as humans, we must

> correct all the elements that makes living and being

> happy precluded within. For allot of souls like us,

> living without happiness and stable health for so

> long may never happen. But, it may and all we

> experienced will just be a distant memory.

>

>

> Who knows the right love interest comes along, that

> will lead toward inner strength and happiness, and

> then other profound events may occur .Thats what

> Im hoping for.

>

> If you're over weight, start losing weight. Try to

> correct the things in your life that suck. Un stable

> health, starts with you seeking treatment. Your

> country is a big place. Im sure you can find someone

> of value both medically and privately.

>

>

> I hate going on trains and being around people I

> secretly envy, but I must do it, no matter how much

> it makes me feel inferior, because I know, one day I

> wont feel so inferior and I will be working and

> communicating along side those that scared me. I

> realize, its not their faults because I was born

> unhealthy so I must continue to stop blaming them.

>

>

> Humans within this generation, preceive you the way

> your actions dictate. Of course you have ignorant

> souls that will only think the worst upon mine, you,

> etc sight but overcome! and move on.

>

>

> It hurts , this I know too well, but God isn't

> going to help us over come, nor is anyone else. Its

> up to us to find redemption from elements we didnt

> cause but is responsible for.

>

> Chief nice ring. Great profession.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new

> beta.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

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