Larry King Live

October 26, 2007

It is called proven by people who use it. You just need to hang out with a different crowd. As to why it's not covered - why isn't "autism" in general covered by insurance, because it isn't a real disability? No. Because they don't have to and it saves them money not to. The longer insurance and schools do not admit coverage and services for ABA, the longer they save money. And as we know, money rules the world. My state is just now working on autism parity in insurance. We'll see if it happens. They used to turn down coverage on my ds for strep throat just because he is also autistic. So I don't think of "insurance" as the guiding light of what is real in the world.

I know you didn't say that "I" personally caved, but you are giving the impression that people who allow their children to get immunizations are being bullied into it or caving. I think I said that if people feel bullied by their pediatrician, then they definitely should get another doctor. There is no reason for people to put up with that.

But in connection with other comments that there is a known cause for autism when there isn't, I think it gives the impression that this is a fact when it's not. People can have different opinions but not different facts. I know some people want to believe in the vaccine connection and I don't care if they do. I just can't have people saying things are fact when they are not fact. And really, I also think that people who don't buy into this theory should speak up more because too often, only your version of this gets publicized. I don't think there is any worry that your theory won't get told.

I don't think the "Columbus" comparison would even fit here. Columbus set sail and landed.

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live

Texas tried to make it mandatory, but it was changed -- not enough research and it was taking the choice out of the parents' hands.Every vaccine, new or not, removes a bit more of our rights -- the medical establishment is not perfect. (Think thalidomide.) I don't want my children ever being someone's guinea pigs or hurt because I caved when a doctor made me feel bad for doing what I think is right. They are my kids, so stand back lolRose wrote:

Deb,

<<<the new one for young girls>>>. are you speaking of the vaccine that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian cancer? I heard on the news that some states made it mandatory for girls to have this, and some schools are giving them out "in school". I don't know which states.debmetsfanaol wrote:

's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all?

Deb

In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I don't really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one. Thanks for the feedback. >> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and > many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say > my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by > that. It's just words.> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover.> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a > body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. > (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the > number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at > a scary epidemic rate.)> > Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense > that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but > because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet > used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol > still remained.> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot > of toxins out there contributing to it all.> > Hope that helps!> Donna>

Debbie SalernoMaine Coon RescueBoard MemberDNA ManagerEastern Regional DirectorVice Presidentwww.mainecoonrescue.net

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

__________________________________________________

October 26, 2007

Well, perhaps you can visit the experiences of more than one child before making your decision as to how to handle things. Both of my kids know they have hfa. Well, their siblings know too. It's like Robin said, it's just part of life and not a big deal overall.

We've just always let them know that this is why some things are harder for them to deal with.

RoxannaAutism Happens

( ) Re: Larry King Live

I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie

__________________________________________________

October 26, 2007

I'm not sure where your beef is then. People do have choices and are choosing to do their own thing. It's not been taken away from them. So all is good there.

You said, "So no, I don't have to prove there is a cause if there is a suspicion -- I'm not a researcher, I'm a parent who knows her child and has talked to a ton of others and has researched a lot on a "mom" level." You can have your opinions but you can't say they are facts. That's all I care about here. If you don't feel the need to prove something is true before you decide it's true, that may be something that works for you personally. Not for me, though. I will demand more before I agree something is a fact. Think about it like this - they used to believe that people were witches and burn them at the stake for it. They didn't need fact or proof, they just felt it was true or had suspicions it was true. I mean you can make an example out of anything to make a point.

Also, I did not say research should focus solely on genetics either. But nothing you've listed so far is a fact as to the cause of autism.

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Larry King Live

I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by that. It's just words. also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover. The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at a scary epidemic rate.)Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound. And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol still remained.Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot of toxins out there contributing to it all. Hope that helps!Donna wrote:

What is everyone's take on the Larry King Live show with McCarthy and Halle Pete? I was pretty frustrated to hear the docter refer to our kids as "Broken Children" and the other comment was from about curing her son of Autism. Autism is a neurological disorder that is not tecnically "curable" but is treatable. I was also listening to them talk about how the MMR shot, and the immunitizations were the causes of autism. I went to the FDA website and the MMR has NEVER contained Thimersoal. Also all other immunitizations have phased out the thimersoal starting in 1999, and most of them are free of mercury or never had it. I wanted imput from everyone here, because I feel like you will all give me great imput on what you think. Thanks! Chelle

October 26, 2007

Try playing "friendship" games - games that are age appropriate and also you can work on sharing, taking turns, letting someone else be in charge, etc.

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live

I completely understand about up and down days. My husband and I seem to switch off and try to balance each other - when one of us is losing it we switch and focus on our younger son and the other focuses on Owen. But for the most part we are tryin to just be supportive, loving and focused on what he does well, which is so, so many things.

Socially we've had a couple of instances where kids have approached him to play and he's either ignored them or reacted in a way that turned them off, so they've moved on. Luckily he's just 4, so he hasn't noticed, but it's broken my heart every single time. Now we try to help by supplying him with the words, and saying things like, "Why don't you go over and ask so-and-so to go on the slide iwth you?" or "Go tell so-and-so you want to play too!" Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

I'm still looking for that magic bullet.... haven't found it yet. It helps to have my husband's support and it helps to have good days that are so, so good. But the bad days... man, sometimes they can just about kill me.

On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote:

Debbie.

It's ok. It's heartbreaking when our kids don't fit.

It's a slap to the ego, the heart and the mind to know WHY they really don't fit, ya know?

What's helped for us is letting everyone we know KNOW about our situation (well,,,,Ian's).

Not many come around to play, but people know. That's good.

Also,,,,,,Ian isn't that bothered that there aren't kids knocking down the doors to play.

Our hardest part has been getting OK with OUR feelings. When we got more ok with how Ian is and that he could really care a less,,,,,,,,we got better as a family.

Is there any group that your son can be a part of with kids like him?

There isn't one around us,,,,,,but we joined a homeschooling group and amazingly, there are other kids with AS.....yipeeee!!!!!!

Also,,,,,,,I totally get what you're saying about not having more kids. BUt, I gotta say,,,,,, when there is no one else for our son,,,,he has his brother and sisters. That is AWESOME.

They are always there making him play or talk or have him show them something on the computer or on a game,,,,go for a bike ride,,,,etc. If it weren't for his siblings,,,,he'd truly have no one sometimes.

Have a super day.

Robindebramelamed <melamedjcomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie

__________________________________________________

October 26, 2007

When my NT daughter was in middle school and high school, she used to call her dad and me the HMPUs (high maintenance parental units)!LizOn Oct 26, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Roxanna wrote:I like your idea! Many people ARE high maintenance! lol RoxannaAutism Happens Re: ( ) Re: Larry King LiveI never thought of it that way -- too late now, I guess, lol...but I figure he's going to want to know at some point why he has therapists, aides, etc., and I'd rather have him understand, and punctuate it with 'but that's no excuse to not do your best...' kind of thing. My little guy's extremely smart and has already questioned me on why he has to go to OT and other places. "Oh, because I'm high-maintenance!" and he smiles.

October 26, 2007

If this is about a cure, etc., then why are those promoting DAN and DAN conferences, etc., needing DAN or this support group (for example)? 'Cuz, if it works so well, then why aren't the autistic children all better or cured, and our website (or need for it) ended? Just my honest thought here......

That being said:One of my concerns is that, when I, personally, along with my husband, have PERSONALLY been stalked and / or harassed and chased by these 'hell bent roar' die hard believers of all that stuff to do the diets and DAN and all this stuff, I am sent to all these websites, and doctors pages, and I looked at them, very open-minded for a moment; that moment was killed nearly INSTANTLY, as, in my opinion, my husband and I are both very well educated college grads, etc., and most of the pages are very scant and / or just appear to be 'scams' or 'scam like' material, and not very legitimate. THEY LOOK FAKE and LIKE SCAMS TO US!! Seems to us more like MONEY MAKING EFFORTS THAN GENUINE---and, that is where I will leave it, as I am NOT sure I want to get involved in the 'heated debate' here; I think ROXANNA rocks (as everyone knows) but that is just our intellectual and GUT opinions and reactions. I have learned to follow my GUT every time, it is almost always right on; the times I went against my first opinion, I regretted it.

USE YOUR OWN JUDGMENTS----just wanted to share what we feel and see when we are pushed to that stuff......

Ruthie Dolezal

Re: ( ) Larry King Live

I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by that. It's just words. also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover. The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at a scary epidemic rate.)Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound. And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol still remained.Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot of toxins out there contributing to it all. Hope that helps!Donna wrote:

What is everyone's take on the Larry King Live show with McCarthy and Halle Pete? I was pretty frustrated to hear the docter refer to our kids as "Broken Children" and the other comment was from about curing her son of Autism. Autism is a neurological disorder that is not tecnically "curable" but is treatable. I was also listening to them talk about how the MMR shot, and the immunitizations were the causes of autism. I went to the FDA website and the MMR has NEVER contained Thimersoal. Also all other immunitizations have phased out the thimersoal starting in 1999, and most of them are free of mercury or never had it. I wanted imput from everyone here, because I feel like you will all give me great imput on what you think. Thanks! Chelle

October 26, 2007

I also think that, if you do not know what you want for sure that you have to stand your ground, or simply say, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK ABOUT IT, and if I want the vaccines, I will get back with you, PERIOD. Guess I do not see any difference in that, than giving in to anything, buying something you don't want because you felt the salesman was pushy, etc. I agree with Roxanna that I would consider finding a new doctor, but I would also say, given the conversations back and forth, it seems to me that simply THINKING ABOUT IT (rather than just giving in if you were so against them) would have been a wonderful option----and, if he pushed you after that, I would have left!!! Just my opinion again....

Ruthie

Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live

Texas tried to make it mandatory, but it was changed -- not enough research and it was taking the choice out of the parents' hands.Every vaccine, new or not, removes a bit more of our rights -- the medical establishment is not perfect. (Think thalidomide.) I don't want my children ever being someone's guinea pigs or hurt because I caved when a doctor made me feel bad for doing what I think is right. They are my kids, so stand back lolRose wrote:

Deb,

<<<the new one for young girls>>>. are you speaking of the vaccine that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian cancer? I heard on the news that some states made it mandatory for girls to have this, and some schools are giving them out "in school". I don't know which states.debmetsfanaol wrote:

's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all?

Deb

In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I don't really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one. Thanks for the feedback. >> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and > many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say > my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by > that. It's just words.> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover.> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a > body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. > (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the > number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at > a scary epidemic rate.)> > Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense > that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but > because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet > used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol > still remained.> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot > of toxins out there contributing to it all.> > Hope that helps!> Donna>

Debbie SalernoMaine Coon RescueBoard MemberDNA ManagerEastern Regional DirectorVice Presidentwww.mainecoonrescue.net

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

__________________________________________________

October 26, 2007

We bring our children up with the truth; in fact, in therapy, which they are IN, if they do not know their diagnosis, they have THERAPY for that, as therapists and professionals believe that is part of them, and part of making their own lives better. It is an explanation but NOT AN EXCUSE. In fact, I tell my boys now (thanks to this group!!!!) that they are still special (which we always did) but that DAD AND I ARE WORKING VERY HARD to learn new and better ways to work with you, and see the world through your eyes, and that we hope they can be patient with us while we do that, because we think they are incredibly bright, and as frustrated as they get with us, we get frustrated too, but that we are trying to help and see things their way. In some instances, our children have actually started talking more now, and telling us how they feel more than they were and helping us to see things from their points of view, which is awesome. We believe in telling them the truth, too. It is NO SECRET, it is who they are / a part of them; just like if someone is a cancer victim then survivor; diabetic, whatever; you cannot change it, it just is.

Ruthie

( ) Re: Larry King Live

I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie

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October 26, 2007

I was adopted, too, but I NEVER TOLD MY PARENTS THAT!!! I was always glad that I was their's; however, my adopted parents divorced, and my adopted father DID feel that way / hated me (so to speak) because my mother did not birth me / they he never had a real child of his own---that is HIS, not my, opinion----I no longer speak to him!! But, my mom and step-dad (DAD TO ME!!!!!) always claimed me! I would not want it any other way.

But, it comes full circle; I gave birth to my three sons, and two of them tell us we adopted them sometimes when they are mad / etc. They are not, so kids will do whatever to get a rise (they don't get one 'cuz we are their parents, and that is the truth, so they can not get much of a rise from that!!

Ruthie

Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live

On Jun 25, 12:28am, "Heidi Guarino" wrote:} the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old} who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to} have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old} enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him.That seems like really normal kid behavior to me. I mean, how manyadopted kids will someday yell at their parents "you don't really loveme because I'm not your real child"? Doesn't mean they shouldn'tknow. Secrets tend to be really hard on a family.Bam pretty much figured it out by himself, and we followed upby talking about it when he seems to want to talk about it andby providing him with what good children's books we've been ableto find. So far no problems with excuses, though I'm sure thatwill come with puberty. :-)Willa

October 26, 2007

Heidi, I also know exactly what you mean. As a graphic designer, I

frequently take other people's crappy logos or ads and make them

look great or work visually. I find it frustrating to not be able

to " fix " my child in that way, make him perfect, or at least

reworked Especially hard if you have friends and family whose

children have never done anything except be perfect. <grin>

It seems just when I am at the bottom, a little light will shine and

we'll make a baby step forward, or maybe three baby steps forward

and then one back! Or I will run into someone who fits the " always

somebody else worse off than me " picture and then I count a couple

of blessings. I recommend crying highly. It relieves stress and I

always feel better.

You might try keeping a journal of good days only and go back and

read when you are at bottom. Especially teacher comments that boost

your day.

Sue

In , " McClure, Kirsten "

<McClure.Kirsten@...> wrote:

>

> Heidi-

> You just described how I feel exactly. You are not alone!

> Kirsten

> (Mom of 8 yr. old daughter Aspie)

>

( ) Re: Larry King Live

>

> I don't

think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our

> quirks and

weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How

> it must be

to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot

> imagine.

That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would

> not have

another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to

> connect and

get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he

> is hurt and

angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other

> kids. He

doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he

> doesn't get

it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my

> family

members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard.

> Sorry if I

am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I

> am low right

now.

>

> Debbie

>

__________________________________________________

>

October 26, 2007

It's ok, Heidi. Sometimes it's easier to be more open and honest with those you "know" but yet, don't "know". Also,,,,,,,you KNOW that we are all in the same boat. 100%. You are with your hubby,,,,,,but we all know that "different" feeling. (hope I said that right). I may have written this before,,,,,,,but it's gonna be ok. I mean this in a positive way,,,,,,but I hope for you that one of these days, you're gonna really be OK with him. The way he is and everything. I know you love him.....I don't mean it that way. But I hope and pray for you to just "BE OK" with your situation. Maybe that will mean taking the awful days worth a grain of salt. Maybe that will mean looking at your son "talking like Curious " as just "one of his things",,,,, I know this may sound like "giving up" on making him "more acceptable",,,,but,,,,,,well,,,,,,

maybe I am. Our entire family was in knots for literally years,,,,,Nudging him constantly towards the societal norm. But we just never got there. We were sad and miserable. He was anxious and sad and as he aged,,,,,started getting angry. It didn't happen overnight, but Ian is OK wit himself so why shouldn't I be OK with him? Not that he doesn't have responsibilities and things to learn and work on like all of us,,,,,,but he is reallly cool and neat......jsut the way he is. We are all much happier now that we know our limits. For us,,,,,time has been the "healer". Because trying to "therapy him" so he could "fit" was not working. Sorry for the book. I just heard myself in your post. Broke my heart. I'd take a deep breath and enjoy your son for who he is and slowly move on from there. Have a super weekend. Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarino@...> wrote: How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist on talking like Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on

social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are other days that make me just want to cry. I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard for me to accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's really sad. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: Crazy? No way -- we all know our own kids the best, and we have to make individual choices based on that. You'll find that on this list, we often have different approaches but there's respect for that, so even if someone did think you were crazy (which I doubt anyone would lol) who cares. Do what's right for your son, and you know best what that is. And denial is a tough thing. I think everyone goes through a certain phase of it. My husband had it bad, like a lot of dads do. Me, I jumped in with both feet to get help, but I think part of me hoped throughout the last almost 3 years that there was a mistake with his dx -- I know there's something going on there, so I've did the 'well, maybe...' a few times, but that just means that when he's

having a bad day, my stomach goes bam, and I think " he really DOES have autism." It's so clear, but as a parent, I think we still have those moments of sadness/denial about it. Heidi Guarino wrote: the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him. could be this is part our problem and our unwillingness to accept that this is a "forever" thing. I don't know... all I know is that I don't want my son to ever think there's something wrong with him, or try to use it as an excuse to get out of achieving at his fullest potential. Do folks think I'm crazy? I've only been on this group

for a couple of days and I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you... I think I hadn't realized just how much I';vebeen in denial about this and how much it would help to have someone to talk to. On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Wow....we've never really been told what to do,,,,,but try to look at it kind of like how we deal with telling our adopted daughter that she is adopted. It's been a part of all of our vocabularies since day 1. AS and ADHD and Tourettes and adoption. No one blinks twice when the words come up. It's simply a part of our family. I didn't want any

of our kids to one day say, "What? What's that?" and wonder why they weren't told. Who knows. I think it's a very personal thing. I do think that no matter what your child "has".....it's gonna be a natural thing to try to "use it" at some point. When Ian has brought up AS and has tried to use it,,,,,,we've laughed it off and said, "good try". Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance. Now, he'll say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing. They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't bother your son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of the kids.

Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't

think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 26, 2007

Hi Roxanna,

Thank you for your imput here. I get so frustrated when I hear people

just repeat what they hear. My sister-in-law refered to the MMR as

the autism shot and said that she is not going to let her son get it.

I personally feel that there are many factors that contribute to our

kids developing autism. My son had the shots, the protection they

give our kids (in my opinion) far outweighed the risks. Also I have a

hard time beliving that the shots could have caused the multiple

instances of Autism that are in my family. I think there is a genetic

factor to be considered. My Grandfather, my 2 uncles, and 3 of my

cousins (all male) as well as my son all have AS. There MUST be a

genetic link there. That many men having AS can not possibly be a

fluke.

I know that I am going to give my daughter the shots. I know that I

have concerns about the viral load and at our next appointment we

will be discussing spreading out her shots more, but I don't ever

want to have to see my baby suffer Whooping cough or the measles,

rotovirus...the kinds of things that we get shots for as kids. I got

all the shots that babies get, plus a ton more at 9 months of age

because we moved to the Middle East. I didn't " get " autism from all

those shots. I think our kids are wired differently, and that is

exactly what I tell my son. We have struggles with behavior, and

attitude, and I know a large part of his issues are because he

doesn't get social rules, but he is who he is. I wouldn't change him

for anything in the world. I really like, love and adore this unique,

quirky little man that God gave me. I know that having a child with

autism is hard, stressful and emotionally tiring, but when that angel

looks up and smiles, it is worth it.

Thanks again for the imput! I love all the support that is felt here.

>

> I'm not sure where your beef is then. People do have choices and

are choosing to do their own thing. It's not been taken away from

them. So all is good there.

>

> You said, " So no, I don't have to prove there is a cause if there

is a suspicion -- I'm not a researcher, I'm a parent who knows her

child and has talked to a ton of others and has researched a lot on

a " mom " level. " You can have your opinions but you can't say they

are facts. That's all I care about here. If you don't feel the need

to prove something is true before you decide it's true, that may be

something that works for you personally. Not for me, though. I will

demand more before I agree something is a fact. Think about it like

this - they used to believe that people were witches and burn them at

the stake for it. They didn't need fact or proof, they just felt it

was true or had suspicions it was true. I mean you can make an

example out of anything to make a point.

>

> Also, I did not say research should focus solely on genetics

either. But nothing you've listed so far is a fact as to the cause

of autism.

>

> Roxanna

October 27, 2007

How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist on talking like Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are other days that make me just want to cry. I can't believe so many people have these same feelings. It's amazing, we

all are different, live is different states, have different families with different problems, but all us parents have had the same feelings. I also experienced my son with good days, got everything right, didn't act silly, annoying and was so focused. I said to myself, they had to mis-diagnosis him, I know he had something, but maybe its not that. then came those other days, "like you" I know his dx wasn't a mistake. And I was told this is the neurological disorder. His brain is wired different. On his good days, all the connections connected well and he was focused. On the off days, his connections didn't connect to where they were suppose to connect and he had his Autistic day. Maybe I'm not explaining it as well as this speaker that explained it, but I hope you can understand. All those supports your giving your son is great, keep doing them and don't give up. One day, it will connect. you won't know

until you keep trying. I know a person that has a son, non-verbal autistic, he is 21 and is at a 2 year old level. He can dress himself, eat, get into bed, use the toilet & shower by himself, shave, & clean up his spot at the dinner table.. His parents never thought he would be able to do that. Now he is with an aid, he goes to support buildings (works) and shreds paper, helps move boxes, put books on shelves etc...He can never be left alone, cook, cut his food things like that. but with therapies, training & adult supervision, he is able to do things and have a full busy day. Now this is a grown man at a 2 year old level that has accomplished lots by starting early with continued therapy & tutoring etc... that's why I always say, never give up. early intervention is very important. Don't look at progress to far ahead, instead take the baby steps.

It's hard when you expect a 7 year old to be able to make a peanut butter & jelly sandwich, and he can't. When he can take the bread out from the bag. that's a great accomplishment and enjoy just that first baby step. later will come the peanut butter, when he can spread the peanut butter on the bread, stop there and look how much was done. He got the bread, then the peanut butter, next will be the jelly, then the whole sandwich. all this with baby steps. Now he can make a peanut butter & jelly sandwich. now you can move on to another area. with baby steps. Some kids need more time and some don't need as many steps. each child is different. Once you learn your child, things get easier. as he grows and gets older, he will be able to tell you what he needs help in. (I'm not there yet) but my son is able to tell me what is helping him and what

is confusing him. He doesn't tell me "when" he needs help. working on that. LOL, I hope my post didn't confuse you more or make you sad. I'm just trying to let you know therapy, tutoring etc.. does work, just take those baby steps because our kids do need lots of time. Hugs for you Rose I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard for me to accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've

been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's really sad. and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs@...> wrote: It's ok, Heidi. Sometimes it's easier to be more open and honest with those you "know" but yet, don't "know". Also,,,,,,,you KNOW that we are all in the same boat. 100%. You are with your hubby,,,,,,but we all know that "different" feeling. (hope I said that right). I may have written

this before,,,,,,,but it's gonna be ok. I mean this in a positive way,,,,,,but I hope for you that one of these days, you're gonna really be OK with him. The way he is and everything. I know you love him.....I don't mean it that way. But I hope and pray for you to just "BE OK" with your situation. Maybe that will mean taking the awful days worth a grain of salt. Maybe that will mean looking at your son "talking like Curious " as just "one of his things",,,,, I know this may sound like "giving up" on making him "more acceptable",,,,but,,,,,,well,,,,,, maybe I am. Our entire family was in knots for literally years,,,,,Nudging him constantly towards the societal norm. But we just never got there. We were sad and miserable. He was anxious and sad and as he aged,,,,,started getting angry. It didn't happen overnight, but Ian is OK wit himself so why

shouldn't I be OK with him? Not that he doesn't have responsibilities and things to learn and work on like all of us,,,,,,but he is reallly cool and neat......jsut the way he is. We are all much happier now that we know our limits. For us,,,,,time has been the "healer". Because trying to "therapy him" so he could "fit" was not working. Sorry for the book. I just heard myself in your post. Broke my heart. I'd take a deep breath and enjoy your son for who he is and slowly move on from there. Have a super weekend. Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist on talking like

Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are other days that make me just want to cry. I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard for me to

accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's really sad. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: Crazy? No way -- we all know our own kids the best, and we have to make individual choices based on that. You'll find that on this list, we often have different approaches but there's respect for that, so even if someone did think you were crazy (which I doubt anyone would lol) who cares. Do what's right for your son, and you know best what that is. And denial is a tough thing. I think everyone goes through a certain phase of it. My husband had it bad,

like a lot of dads do. Me, I jumped in with both feet to get help, but I think part of me hoped throughout the last almost 3 years that there was a mistake with his dx -- I know there's something going on there, so I've did the 'well, maybe...' a few times, but that just means that when he's having a bad day, my stomach goes bam, and I think " he really DOES have autism." It's so clear, but as a parent, I think we still have those moments of sadness/denial about it. Heidi Guarino wrote: the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him. could be this is part our problem and our unwillingness to accept that this is

a "forever" thing. I don't know... all I know is that I don't want my son to ever think there's something wrong with him, or try to use it as an excuse to get out of achieving at his fullest potential. Do folks think I'm crazy? I've only been on this group for a couple of days and I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you... I think I hadn't realized just how much I';vebeen in denial about this and how much it would help to have someone to talk to. On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Wow....we've never really been told what to do,,,,,but try to look at it kind of like how we deal

with telling our adopted daughter that she is adopted. It's been a part of all of our vocabularies since day 1. AS and ADHD and Tourettes and adoption. No one blinks twice when the words come up. It's simply a part of our family. I didn't want any of our kids to one day say, "What? What's that?" and wonder why they weren't told. Who knows. I think it's a very personal thing. I do think that no matter what your child "has".....it's gonna be a natural thing to try to "use it" at some point. When Ian has brought up AS and has tried to use it,,,,,,we've laughed it off and said, "good try". Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance. Now, he'll

say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing. They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't bother your

son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of the kids. Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come

around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

He will only use it as a crutch if you let

him. When they are little I don’t think it is necessary but by the time

they are school age they can understand. My son has always known as has my

bi-polar daughter. If they try to use their differences as an excuse we inform

them that it makes it more difficult for them to control themselves but they

are still responsible for their own behavior. Consequences are different than for

our NT children. The consequences are aimed at helping them learn to control

themselves rather than discipline for not showing self-control. For instance we

tell my son who loves to read to go to his room to read. Behavior that is

deliberate receives discipline, in his case losing all media privileges (tv,

computer, game cube, and game boy) unless it is for school work. Problem

behavior that is related to their difference it is not fair to punish but they

need to understand that it is unacceptable so you can’t just let it go.

Jolinna

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Heidi Guarino

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:18 PM

Subject: Re: ( )

Re: Larry King Live

Donna,

We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son

that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the

line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch.

On 10/26/07, Donna B

<donnabzygmail> wrote:

A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that

we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and

treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as

hurtful.

Our way? " You're a high-maintenance dude! " We say it with a smile and

a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more

high-maintenance. Now, he'll say " That's because I'm

high-maintenance! " A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad

day, he'll say " They must be high-maintenance, too. " It's helped his

understanding of others because he can relate.

Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped!

October 27, 2007

You just don't know. It could be a combination of things. I had pitocin, too.

Deb

In a message dated 10/27/2007 12:32:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, craftychick70@... writes:

what about autistic kids who did not receive the vaccine? What about those who were autistic long before vaccinations became common?

there probably is a long laundry list of things that can cause autism, just like there is a laundry list of things that cause diabetes or heart disease or any other disease. maybe with the toxin theory there's a kernel of truth to it-kids may be more sensitive to these toxins and it might cause a reaction. but its just as true to say pitocin causes autism because there is anectodal evidence that a number of autistic children have mothers that were given pitocinRoxanna <madideaszoominternet (DOT) net> wrote:

You don't have to prove there isn't, you have to prove there is. But you said it was a common cause of autism and it's not proven that it is even "A" cause of autism, let alone the common cause. Even if people feel like a vaccine caused autism, it doesn't mean it's any more true. I don't think it is widely accepted either. There is just a certain segment of people who do and like to push their theories. I personally get upset that people want to hyper focus on this one thing and not look around at other possible causes. I think it will slow down the search for answers. It's fine to consider this option, IMO, but not at the expense of any other.

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Larry King Live

I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by that. It's just words. also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover. The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at a scary epidemic rate.)Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound. And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol still remained.Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot of toxins out there contributing to it all. Hope that helps!Donna wrote:

What is everyone's take on the Larry King Live show with McCarthy and Halle Pete? I was pretty frustrated to hear the docter refer to our kids as "Broken Children" and the other comment was from about curing her son of Autism. Autism is a neurological disorder that is not tecnically "curable" but is treatable. I was also listening to them talk about how the MMR shot, and the immunitizations were the causes of autism. I went to the FDA website and the MMR has NEVER contained Thimersoal. Also all other immunitizations have phased out the thimersoal starting in 1999, and most of them are free of mercury or never had it. I wanted imput from everyone here, because I feel like you will all give me great imput on what you think. Thanks! Chelle

__________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

I agree with it all, I guess. People "repeating" what they hear or agree with doesn't bother me. I do it....you do it.....we all do it. If we agree with something and see a similarity or a link.....we tend to go that way. Doesn't mean we're all gonna see the link or agree. Since all of the "reasons" are valid,,,,,and we're dealing with the lives our our kids,,,,, it can become a very heated "discussion", though. I see that. People leaning twd something being more of a cause than something else is a very personal thing and shouldn't be questioned, I don't think. It should be accepted that THAT is the way THEY feel. We should allow it to be "written" without it becoming a back and forth, almost "uncomfortable to read" thread. Sorry if this offends.........but it's just the way I feel. Robin

<mrathswohl@...> wrote: Hi Roxanna,Thank you for your imput here. I get so frustrated when I hear people just repeat what they hear. My sister-in-law refered to the MMR as the autism shot and said that she is not going to let her son get it. I personally feel that there are many factors that contribute to our kids developing autism. My son had the shots, the protection they give our kids (in my opinion) far outweighed the risks. Also I have a hard time beliving that the shots could have caused the multiple

instances of Autism that are in my family. I think there is a genetic factor to be considered. My Grandfather, my 2 uncles, and 3 of my cousins (all male) as well as my son all have AS. There MUST be a genetic link there. That many men having AS can not possibly be a fluke. I know that I am going to give my daughter the shots. I know that I have concerns about the viral load and at our next appointment we will be discussing spreading out her shots more, but I don't ever want to have to see my baby suffer Whooping cough or the measles, rotovirus...the kinds of things that we get shots for as kids. I got all the shots that babies get, plus a ton more at 9 months of age because we moved to the Middle East. I didn't "get" autism from all those shots. I think our kids are wired differently, and that is exactly what I tell my son. We have struggles with behavior, and attitude, and I know a large part of his

issues are because he doesn't get social rules, but he is who he is. I wouldn't change him for anything in the world. I really like, love and adore this unique, quirky little man that God gave me. I know that having a child with autism is hard, stressful and emotionally tiring, but when that angel looks up and smiles, it is worth it. Thanks again for the imput! I love all the support that is felt here. >> I'm not sure where your beef is then. People do have choices and are choosing to do their own thing. It's not been taken away from them. So all is good there. > > You said, "So no, I don't have to prove there is a cause if there is a suspicion -- I'm not a researcher, I'm a parent who knows her child and has talked to a ton of

others and has researched a lot on a "mom" level." You can have your opinions but you can't say they are facts. That's all I care about here. If you don't feel the need to prove something is true before you decide it's true, that may be something that works for you personally. Not for me, though. I will demand more before I agree something is a fact. Think about it like this - they used to believe that people were witches and burn them at the stake for it. They didn't need fact or proof, they just felt it was true or had suspicions it was true. I mean you can make an example out of anything to make a point. > > Also, I did not say research should focus solely on genetics either. But nothing you've listed so far is a fact as to the cause of autism. > > Roxanna __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

what about autistic kids who did not receive the vaccine? What about those who were autistic long before vaccinations became common? there probably is a long laundry list of things that can cause autism, just like there is a laundry list of things that cause diabetes or heart disease or any other disease. maybe with the toxin theory there's a kernel of truth to it-kids may be more sensitive to these toxins and it might cause a reaction. but its just as true to say pitocin causes autism because there is anectodal evidence that a number of autistic children have mothers that were given pitocinRoxanna <madideas@...> wrote: You don't have to prove there isn't, you have to prove there is. But you said it was a common cause of autism and it's not proven that it is even "A" cause of autism, let alone the common cause. Even if people feel like a vaccine caused autism, it doesn't mean it's any more true. I don't think it is widely accepted either. There is just a certain segment of people who do and like to push their theories. I personally get upset that people want to hyper focus on this one thing and not look around at other possible causes. I think it will slow down the search for answers. It's fine to consider this option, IMO, but not at the expense of any other. RoxannaAutism Happens Re: ( ) Larry King Live I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have some broken mechanisms in their body, things that

don't work right for one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by that. It's just words. also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never be cured, you'll

always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover. The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at a scary epidemic rate.)Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound. And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't

yet expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol still remained.Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot of toxins out there contributing to it all. Hope that helps!Donna wrote: What is everyone's take on the Larry King Live show with McCarthy and Halle Pete? I was pretty frustrated to hear the docter refer to our kids as "Broken Children" and the other comment was from about curing her son of Autism. Autism is a neurological disorder that is not tecnically "curable" but is treatable. I was also listening to them talk about how the MMR shot, and the immunitizations were the causes of autism. I went to the FDA website and the MMR has NEVER contained

Thimersoal. Also all other immunitizations have phased out the thimersoal starting in 1999, and most of them are free of mercury or never had it. I wanted imput from everyone here, because I feel like you will all give me great imput on what you think. Thanks! Chelle __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

i checked into dan, my son's birth family appparently were dan fanatics, and he's still an aspie. we've been able to minimize some of the issues he's had-giving him coping mechanisms. he doesn't have as many meltdowns as he used to because we've worked with him on using words to express his feelings. he's able to articulate what he's feeling more and screaming less. also, having ear tubes placed has helped-he is not in constant pain and can hear. since he got glasses, his behavior has improved as well (on top of everything else hes crossed eyed) because he's better able to see. we've added more protein to his diet and limit junk and that has helped his hyperactivity (and helped him grow more) he is so smart and we've chosen to focus on his intellectual abilities and help him blossom that way. i think if you focus on what is working in child's life and help them feel positive and secure in that it will carry over into other parts of their lives. does he still have meltdowns?

yes. but they don't last as long or are as intense as they once were. do we still have sensory issues? yes, but they can be better managed...i don't know what the answer is, and its a learning curve but we're going to muddle through itRUTHIE BRYAN DOLEZAL <DOLEZAL123@...> wrote: If this is about a cure, etc., then why are those promoting DAN and DAN conferences, etc., needing DAN or this support group (for example)? 'Cuz, if it works so

well, then why aren't the autistic children all better or cured, and our website (or need for it) ended? Just my honest thought here...... That being said:One of my concerns is that, when I, personally, along with my husband, have PERSONALLY been stalked and / or harassed and chased by these 'hell bent roar' die hard believers of all that stuff to do the diets and DAN and all this stuff, I am sent to all these websites, and doctors pages, and I looked at them, very open-minded for a moment; that moment was killed nearly INSTANTLY, as, in my opinion, my husband and I are both very well educated college grads, etc., and most of the pages are very scant and / or just appear to be 'scams' or 'scam like' material, and not very legitimate. THEY LOOK FAKE and LIKE SCAMS TO US!! Seems to us more like MONEY MAKING EFFORTS THAN GENUINE---and, that is where I will leave it, as I am NOT sure I want to get involved in the 'heated debate' here; I think

ROXANNA rocks (as everyone knows) but that is just our intellectual and GUT opinions and reactions. I have learned to follow my GUT every time, it is almost always right on; the times I went against my first opinion, I regretted it. USE YOUR OWN JUDGMENTS----just wanted to share what we feel and see when we are pushed to that stuff...... Ruthie Dolezal Re: ( ) Larry King Live I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel

is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by that. It's just words. also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover. The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child who cannot process the

viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at a scary epidemic rate.)Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound. And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol still remained.Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc.,

there's a lot of toxins out there contributing to it all. Hope that helps!Donna wrote: What is everyone's take on the Larry King Live show with McCarthy and Halle Pete? I was pretty frustrated to hear the docter refer to our kids as "Broken Children" and the other comment was from about curing her son of Autism. Autism is a neurological disorder that is not tecnically "curable" but is treatable. I was also listening to them talk about how the MMR shot, and the immunitizations were the causes of autism. I went to the FDA website and the MMR has NEVER contained Thimersoal. Also all other immunitizations have phased out the thimersoal starting in 1999, and most of them are free of mercury or never had it. I wanted imput from everyone here, because I feel like you will all

give me great imput on what you think. Thanks! Chelle __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

we were in barnes & noble a while back and saber was playing with the train set that was there, he had started playing with it before another little boy came over and saber didnt want to share...the other boys mother told me that i needed to teach my son to play nice with others. i just looked at her and said he's autistic. next time i'll hang a sign around his neck to let you know. it shut her up real fast!!!! its so hard when people look at you like you're a bad parent or something, when its our kiddo not knowing how to handle a situationDonna B <donnabzy@...> wrote: Hi Debbie -- don't apologize, like you said, we all have our highs and lows. I know I've come here on a bad day plenty of times!I've got four kids, and only my youngest has autism (which, for me, bolsters my thoughts that it's toxins that have just increased through the years), but my 12 yod has seizure disorder, and I see how it affects her life too, though she is SUCH a trouper. Anyway, it's so hard watching your child try to connect and not be able to. People really downplay the social aspects, "they'll learn, they'll get by" are things I hear often. Sure, they will, but does that make it okay? Are we supposed to overlook it?We took my son to the dentist a couple of days ago, and he attempted to play with the other kids at the toy area. One boy was playing with him, but ds had to be in charge. He was telling the other boy what to do, how, when, etc. That's typical, everywhere we go, he has

to be in charge. He wants it that way at home, too, so why it would be any different elsewhere makes no sense. He wants waffles for breakfast every day (when he's not on a pancake binge) but they must be sliced, dry, then have the syrup poured over. His 'coffee' (almond chocolate milk) must be in a specific cup. Everything has a way about it, and while we try to break some habits, shake things up, we choose our battles and some things just aren't worth it. Lots of years to work on that.Donnadebramelamed wrote: I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to

connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

we were told the same thing...i just keep telling saber that he's special but i never tell him that he's different. i also tell my husband that he's special in front of saber to kind of reinforce itHeidi Guarino <heidi.guarino@...> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance. Now, he'll say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing. They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't bother your son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of

the kids. Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't

think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

hugs heidi!! i know how you feel. there are days when i think that saber was diagnosed because he was so different and it was a convenient way to placate his birth parents. he can be so "normal" sometimes, and then you put him next to a "normal" child and you realize just how different he really is. its like a punch in the gut. and when i think about all this kiddo has been thru in 5 years, it breaks my heart. it just compounds his diagnosis with another layer...there are days when i wish he would just draw a picture of something other than a letter or number. then there are days when i realize that he is a math whiz, so it all balances out i guess. Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarino@...> wrote: How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist on talking like Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are other days that make me just want to cry. I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I

can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard for me to accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's really sad. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: Crazy? No way -- we all know our own kids the best, and we have to make individual choices based on that. You'll find that on this list, we often

have different approaches but there's respect for that, so even if someone did think you were crazy (which I doubt anyone would lol) who cares. Do what's right for your son, and you know best what that is. And denial is a tough thing. I think everyone goes through a certain phase of it. My husband had it bad, like a lot of dads do. Me, I jumped in with both feet to get help, but I think part of me hoped throughout the last almost 3 years that there was a mistake with his dx -- I know there's something going on there, so I've did the 'well, maybe...' a few times, but that just means that when he's having a bad day, my stomach goes bam, and I think " he really DOES have autism." It's so clear, but as a parent, I think we still have those moments of sadness/denial about it. Heidi Guarino wrote: the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old

who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him. could be this is part our problem and our unwillingness to accept that this is a "forever" thing. I don't know... all I know is that I don't want my son to ever think there's something wrong with him, or try to use it as an excuse to get out of achieving at his fullest potential. Do folks think I'm crazy? I've only been on this group for a couple of days and I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you... I think I hadn't realized just how much I';vebeen in denial about this and how much it would help to have someone to talk to. On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Wow....we've never really been told what to do,,,,,but try to look at it kind of like how we deal with telling our adopted daughter that she is adopted. It's been a part of all of our vocabularies since day 1. AS and ADHD and Tourettes and adoption. No one blinks twice when the words come up. It's simply a part of our family. I didn't want any of our kids to one day say, "What? What's that?" and wonder why they weren't told. Who knows. I think it's a very personal thing. I do think that no matter what your child "has".....it's gonna be a natural thing to try to "use it" at some point. When Ian has brought up AS and has tried

to use it,,,,,,we've laughed it off and said, "good try". Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should

tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance. Now, he'll say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing. They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are

different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't bother your son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of the kids. Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their

niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to

connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

Math wiz and maybe a future accountant, they make good money and well neededDee DiMemmo <craftychick70@...> wrote: hugs heidi!! i know how you feel. there are days when i think that saber was diagnosed because he was so different and it was a convenient way to placate his birth parents. he can be so "normal" sometimes, and then you put him next to a "normal" child and you realize just how different he really is. its like a punch in the gut. and when i think about all this kiddo has been thru in 5 years, it breaks my heart. it just

compounds his diagnosis with another layer...there are days when i wish he would just draw a picture of something other than a letter or number. then there are days when i realize that he is a math whiz, so it all balances out i guess. Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist on talking like Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a

week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are other days that make me just want to cry. I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard for me to accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's really sad. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: Crazy? No way -- we all know our own kids the best, and we have to make individual choices based on that. You'll find that on this list, we often have different approaches but there's respect for that, so even if someone did think you were crazy (which I doubt anyone would lol) who cares. Do what's right for your son, and you know best what that is. And denial is a tough thing. I think everyone goes through a certain phase of it. My husband had it bad, like a lot of dads do. Me, I jumped in with both feet to get help, but I think part of me hoped throughout the last almost 3 years that there was a mistake with his dx -- I know there's something going on there, so I've did the 'well, maybe...' a few times, but that just means that when he's having a bad day, my stomach goes bam, and I think " he really DOES have autism." It's so clear,

but as a parent, I think we still have those moments of sadness/denial about it. Heidi Guarino wrote: the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him. could be this is part our problem and our unwillingness to accept that this is a "forever" thing. I don't know... all I know is that I don't want my son to ever think there's something wrong with him, or try to use it as an excuse to get out of achieving at his fullest potential. Do folks think I'm crazy? I've only been on this group for a couple of days and I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you... I think I hadn't

realized just how much I';vebeen in denial about this and how much it would help to have someone to talk to. On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Wow....we've never really been told what to do,,,,,but try to look at it kind of like how we deal with telling our adopted daughter that she is adopted. It's been a part of all of our vocabularies since day 1. AS and ADHD and Tourettes and adoption. No one blinks twice when the words come up. It's simply a part of our family. I didn't want any of our kids to one day say, "What? What's that?" and wonder why they weren't

told. Who knows. I think it's a very personal thing. I do think that no matter what your child "has".....it's gonna be a natural thing to try to "use it" at some point. When Ian has brought up AS and has tried to use it,,,,,,we've laughed it off and said, "good try". Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance. Now, he'll say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing. They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't bother your son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of the kids. Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel

better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have

our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

i have to laugh because i was an accountant! and a math whiz too!Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote: Math wiz and maybe a future accountant, they make good money and well neededDee DiMemmo <craftychick70 > wrote: hugs heidi!! i know how you feel. there are days when i think that saber was diagnosed because he was so different and it was a convenient way to placate his birth parents. he can be so "normal"

sometimes, and then you put him next to a "normal" child and you realize just how different he really is. its like a punch in the gut. and when i think about all this kiddo has been thru in 5 years, it breaks my heart. it just compounds his diagnosis with another layer...there are days when i wish he would just draw a picture of something other than a letter or number. then there are days when i realize that he is a math whiz, so it all balances out i guess. Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist on talking like Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to

help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are other days that make me just want to cry. I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard for me to accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's

really sad. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: Crazy? No way -- we all know our own kids the best, and we have to make individual choices based on that. You'll find that on this list, we often have different approaches but there's respect for that, so even if someone did think you were crazy (which I doubt anyone would lol) who cares. Do what's right for your son, and you know best what that is. And denial is a tough thing. I think everyone goes through a certain phase of it. My husband had it bad, like a lot of dads do. Me, I jumped in with both feet to get help, but I think part of me hoped throughout the last almost 3 years that there was a mistake with his dx -- I

know there's something going on there, so I've did the 'well, maybe...' a few times, but that just means that when he's having a bad day, my stomach goes bam, and I think " he really DOES have autism." It's so clear, but as a parent, I think we still have those moments of sadness/denial about it. Heidi Guarino wrote: the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him. could be this is part our problem and our unwillingness to accept that this is a "forever" thing. I don't know... all I know is that I don't want my son to ever think there's something wrong with him, or try to use it as an excuse to get out of

achieving at his fullest potential. Do folks think I'm crazy? I've only been on this group for a couple of days and I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you... I think I hadn't realized just how much I';vebeen in denial about this and how much it would help to have someone to talk to. On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Wow....we've never really been told what to do,,,,,but try to look at it kind of like how we deal with telling our adopted daughter that she is adopted. It's been a part of all of our vocabularies since day 1. AS and ADHD and Tourettes and

adoption. No one blinks twice when the words come up. It's simply a part of our family. I didn't want any of our kids to one day say, "What? What's that?" and wonder why they weren't told. Who knows. I think it's a very personal thing. I do think that no matter what your child "has".....it's gonna be a natural thing to try to "use it" at some point. When Ian has brought up AS and has tried to use it,,,,,,we've laughed it off and said, "good try". Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him,

someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance. Now, he'll say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's

helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing. They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't bother your son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all

drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of the kids. Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right

now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

amazing!!! *smile*Dee DiMemmo <craftychick70@...> wrote: i have to laugh because i was an accountant! and a math whiz too!Rose <beachbodytan2002 > wrote: Math wiz and maybe a future accountant, they make good money and well neededDee DiMemmo <craftychick70 > wrote: hugs

heidi!! i know how you feel. there are days when i think that saber was diagnosed because he was so different and it was a convenient way to placate his birth parents. he can be so "normal" sometimes, and then you put him next to a "normal" child and you realize just how different he really is. its like a punch in the gut. and when i think about all this kiddo has been thru in 5 years, it breaks my heart. it just compounds his diagnosis with another layer...there are days when i wish he would just draw a picture of something other than a letter or number. then there are days when i realize that he is a math whiz, so it all balances out i guess. Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist

on talking like Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are other days that make me just want to cry. I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard

for me to accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's really sad. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: Crazy? No way -- we all know our own kids the best, and we have to make individual choices based on that. You'll find that on this list, we often have different approaches but there's respect for that, so even if someone did think you were crazy (which I doubt anyone would lol) who cares. Do what's right for your son, and you know best what that is. And denial is a tough thing. I think everyone goes through a certain phase of it. My husband had

it bad, like a lot of dads do. Me, I jumped in with both feet to get help, but I think part of me hoped throughout the last almost 3 years that there was a mistake with his dx -- I know there's something going on there, so I've did the 'well, maybe...' a few times, but that just means that when he's having a bad day, my stomach goes bam, and I think " he really DOES have autism." It's so clear, but as a parent, I think we still have those moments of sadness/denial about it. Heidi Guarino wrote: the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him. could be this is part our problem and our unwillingness to accept that

this is a "forever" thing. I don't know... all I know is that I don't want my son to ever think there's something wrong with him, or try to use it as an excuse to get out of achieving at his fullest potential. Do folks think I'm crazy? I've only been on this group for a couple of days and I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you... I think I hadn't realized just how much I';vebeen in denial about this and how much it would help to have someone to talk to. On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Wow....we've never really been told what to do,,,,,but try to look at it kind of like how we

deal with telling our adopted daughter that she is adopted. It's been a part of all of our vocabularies since day 1. AS and ADHD and Tourettes and adoption. No one blinks twice when the words come up. It's simply a part of our family. I didn't want any of our kids to one day say, "What? What's that?" and wonder why they weren't told. Who knows. I think it's a very personal thing. I do think that no matter what your child "has".....it's gonna be a natural thing to try to "use it" at some point. When Ian has brought up AS and has tried to use it,,,,,,we've laughed it off and said, "good try". Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance.

Now, he'll say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing. They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't

bother your son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of the kids. Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family

members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

October 27, 2007

its actually a family tradition...my mother is an accountant, my father was an accountant, my stepfather was an acccountant, one grandfather was a professor at the london college of economics, the other grandfather was an actuary, my aunt had a phd in math. did i mention that we all lack social skills?Rose <beachbodytan2002@...> wrote: amazing!!! *smile*Dee DiMemmo <craftychick70 > wrote: i have to laugh because

i was an accountant! and a math whiz too!Rose <beachbodytan2002 > wrote: Math wiz and maybe a future accountant, they make good money and well neededDee DiMemmo <craftychick70 > wrote: hugs heidi!! i know how you feel. there are days when i think that saber was diagnosed because he was so different and it was a convenient way to placate his birth parents. he can be so "normal" sometimes, and then you put him next to a "normal" child and you realize just how different he really is. its like a punch in the gut. and when i think about all this kiddo has been thru in 5 years, it breaks my heart. it just compounds his diagnosis with another layer...there are days when i wish he would just draw a picture of

something other than a letter or number. then there are days when i realize that he is a math whiz, so it all balances out i guess. Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: How do you get past that? I think I feel it every day. Whenever he has a good day I'm certain this is all behind us. Then, he'll have a tantrum or insist on talking like Curious , refuse to get dressed, or talk endlessly about the same thing for hours and I'll realize that I'm just kidding myself. We are doin everything in our power to help him -- we've pulled every string we have to get him a tutor on weekends, and to place him in a full-day integrated preschool program focused on social interactions. He's getting speech and occupational therapy twice a week, and I swear somedays it really seems like lights are being turned on in his head. But then there are

other days that make me just want to cry. I think as a parent I've become accustomed to being able to "fix" things. I can put a band-aid on a scraped knee, put batteries in toys when they die, give medicine to my kids when they're sick. I can take them places, buy them things, sing them to sleep, make them giggle when they're sad and calm them down when they're going crazy. But THIS.... I can't fix this and it's really, really hard for me to accept that. You should all know that I'm being more honest on this listserve than I've been with anyone... including my husband. Damn, that's really sad. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: Crazy? No way -- we all know our own kids the best, and we have to make individual choices based on that. You'll find that on this list, we often have different approaches but there's respect for that, so even if someone did think you were crazy (which I doubt anyone would lol) who cares. Do what's right for your son, and you know best what that is. And denial is a tough thing. I think everyone goes through a certain phase of it. My husband had it bad, like a lot of dads do. Me, I jumped in with both feet to get help, but I think part of me hoped throughout the last almost 3 years that there was a mistake with his dx -- I know there's something going on there, so I've did the 'well, maybe...' a few times, but that just means that when he's having a bad day, my stomach goes bam, and I think " he really DOES have autism." It's so clear, but as a parent, I think we still have those moments of sadness/denial about it. Heidi Guarino wrote: the advice came from my son's tutor who said she works with a 12 year old who claims he can't learn to read "becasue he's autistic." Our hope is to have Owen in a good place emotionally and socially by the time he's old enough to notice and never have to make a big deal out of this to him. could be this is part our problem and our unwillingness to accept that this is a "forever" thing. I don't know... all I know is that I don't want my son to ever think there's something wrong with him, or try to use it as an excuse to get out of achieving at his fullest potential. Do folks think I'm crazy? I've only been on this group for a couple of days and I feel like I've learned a lot from all of you... I think I hadn't realized just how much I';vebeen in denial about this and how much it would help to have someone to talk

to. On 10/26/07, and/or Robin Lemke <jrisjs > wrote: Wow....we've never really been told what to do,,,,,but try to look at it kind of like how we deal with telling our adopted daughter that she is adopted. It's been a part of all of our vocabularies since day 1. AS and ADHD and Tourettes and adoption. No one blinks twice when the words come up. It's simply a part of our family. I didn't want any of our kids to one day say, "What? What's that?" and wonder why they weren't told. Who knows. I think it's a very personal thing. I do think that no matter

what your child "has".....it's gonna be a natural thing to try to "use it" at some point. When Ian has brought up AS and has tried to use it,,,,,,we've laughed it off and said, "good try". Robin Heidi Guarino <heidi.guarinogmail> wrote: Donna, We were told the opposite -- to never, ever tell our 4-year-old son that he's been diagnosed with anything. That if we told him, someday down the line he woudl learn that he could use it as a crutch. On 10/26/07, Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote: A behavioral therapist told us about 2 years ago that we should tell our son he's different, so when others start noticing it and treating him differently, he'd have a reason why, and it wouldn't be as hurtful. Our way? "You're a high-maintenance dude!" We say it with a smile and a laugh, and if he's having a bad day, we joke about how he's being even more high-maintenance. Now, he'll say "That's because I'm high-maintenance!" A couple of times now, if he sees others having a bad day, he'll say "They must be high-maintenance, too." It's helped his understanding of others because he can relate. Not a cure-all, but it's definitely helped! Toni wrote: If your family members are telling you not to come around.. I wouldn't . They are missing a blessing.

They are closed minded, they are pitiful (sorry). I understand your hurt. I hate to see my kids with other kids because that is when it is so obvious they are different. But, you know what, Debbie, it doesn't bother my kids to be different, they are proud.. they don't want to be pedestrian (their words) and boring and mundane.. to them we are the weird ones who ask about somebody's day and don't really care if they answer or not.. it's a nicety... CHIN up girl, I bet it doesn't bother your son (or mine) as nearly as their treatment bothers us.By the way, my boys are 19 and they do get it, they just don't care. They said the kids at school all drank, smoked, did drugs, had sex etc and that they and one other boy were the only virgins and they didn't WANT to be like the rest of the kids. Try to concentrate on HIS positives just for today and you'll feel better... My pdoc told me when I first started talking to him about the boys... Look at every picture you see of

Einstein, his hair is all over his head, he had a 'keeper', his clothes were unkempt, and yet he was brilliant and made a difference. Your boys will find their niche and make a difference too... I understand feeling low... I have felt like I was on a treadmill getting nowhere fast..sat in my room and cried... but it will get better... Toni ( ) Re: Larry King Live I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your

peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________Do You

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