Larry King Live

[Guest guest]

No meningitis vaccine for us here either -- and we've already turned

down Gardasil. We've lived this long without meningitis, I'm

unconvinced there's a need for a vaccine.

debmetsfan@... wrote:

Well, that was an eye-opener!  I don't think that I will be

getting this for !  two pediatricians have recommended it.  But I

think we will be safe without it!

 

What about the meningitis vaccine?  I heard that she will have

to get it for college if she doesn't get it now.  My mom died from

meningitis 8 years ago.

 

Deb

 

 

In a message dated 10/24/2007 11:15:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time, aschristensencharter (DOT) net writes:

Please google Gardisil. There has been alot of contraversy

over this

vaccine, and it causing problems for young girls. The choice is yours.

Speaking as one with some experience, weigh your choice on this VERY

carefully. I personally never was "at risk" for HPV. I always used

protection etc. My x-husband did not tell me until several months after

we were married that his x-girlfriend/mother of his older son, had

HPV.

This was at the same time that I stated having paps come back abnormal.

Yes it was definately from him, yes he gave it to me. Now that said, I

have had to have more Very painful procedures done than I care to

count,

including losing 1/2 of my cervix at the age of 25. I also was forced

to

have a complete hysterectomy at the age of 30 because the cervical

cancer caused by the HPV he gave me came back after removing part of my

cervix, and it was showing the potential to spread to my uterus and

ovaries. HPV is not something to mess around with, however, look at all

the data on the vaccine and weigh your choices. Personally, I would not

wish any of what I had to go through on anyone. As I said HPV can

happen

to even the most careful person, it happened to me.

here is just one article you can start with:

http://www.nvic.org/PressReleases/pr62706gardasil.htm

*Washington, D.C.* - The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is

calling on the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices

(ACIP)

<http://www.cdc.gov/nip/acip/agendas/agenda-jun06.pdf>

to just say "no"

on June 29 to recommending "universal use" of Merck's Gardasil vaccine

in all pre-adolescent girls. NVIC maintains that Merck's clinical

trials

did not prove the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine designed to

prevent

cervical cancer and genital warts is safe to give to young girls.

"Merck and the FDA have not been completely honest with the people

about

the pre-licensure clinical trials," said NVIC president Barbara Loe

Fisher. "Merck's pre and post-licensure marketing strategy has

positioned mass use of this vaccine by pre-teens as a morality play in

order to avoid talking about the flawed science they used to get it

licensed. This is not just about teenagers having sex, it is also about

whether Gardasil has been proven safe and effective for little girls."

The FDA allowed Merck to use a potentially reactive aluminum containing

placebo as a control for most trial participants, rather than a

non-reactive saline solution placebo.[1

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>]

A reactive placebo can artificially increase the appearance of safety

of

an experimental drug or vaccine in a clinical trial. Gardasil contains

225 mcg of aluminum and, although aluminum adjuvants have been used in

vaccines for decades, they were never tested for safety in clinical

trials. Merck and the FDA did not disclose how much aluminum was in the

placebo.[2]

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

Animal and human studies have shown that aluminum can cause nerve cell

death [3

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>]

and that vaccine aluminum adjuvants can allow aluminum to enter the

brain, [4

<http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm>

5

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>]

as well as cause inflammation at the injection site leading to chronic

joint and muscle pain and fatigue. [6

<http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821>

7

<http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>]

Nearly 90 percent of Gardasil recipients and 85 percent of aluminum

placebo recipients followed-up for safety reported one or more adverse

events within 15 days of vaccination, particularly at the injection

site.[8

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>]

Pain

and swelling at injection site occurred in approximately 83 percent of

Gardasil and 73 percent of aluminum placebo recipients. About 60

percent

of those who got Gardasil or the aluminum placebo had systemic adverse

events including headache, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting,

diarrhea,

myalgia. [9

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>

10 <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>]

Gardasil recipients had more serious adverse events such as headache,

gastroenteritis, appendicitis, pelvic inflammatory disease, asthma,

bronchospasm and arthritis.

"Merck and the FDA do not reveal in public documents exactly how many 9

to 15 year old girls were in the clinical trials, how many of them

received hepatitis B vaccine and Gardasil simultaneously, and how many

of them had serious adverse events after being injected with Gardasil

or

the aluminum placebo. For example, if there were less than 1,000 little

girls actually injected with three doses of Gardasil, it is important

to

know how many had serious adverse events and how long they were

followed

for chronic health problems, such as juvenile arthritis."

According to the Merck product manufacturer insert, there was 1 case of

juvenile arthritis, 2 cases of rheumatoid arthritis, 5 cases of

arthritis, and 1 case of reactive arthritis out of 11,813 Gardasil

recipients plus 1 case of lupus and 2 cases of arthritis out of 9,701

participants primarily receiving an aluminum containing placebo.

Clinical trial investigators dismissed most of the 102 Gardasil and

placebo associated serious adverse events, including 17 deaths, that

occurred in the clinical trials as unrelated.

"There is too little long term safety and efficacy data, especially in

young girls, and too little labeling information on contraindications

for the CDC to recommend Gardasil for universal use, which is a signal

for states to mandate it," said Fisher. "Nobody at Merck, the CDC or

FDA

know if the injection of Gardasil into all pre-teen girls - especially

simultaneously with hepatitis B vaccine - will make some of them more

likely to develop arthritis or other inflammatory autoimmune and brain

disorders as teenagers and adults. With cervical cancer causing about

one percent of all cancer deaths in American women due to routine pap

screening, it was inappropriate for the FDA to fast track Gardasil. It

is way too early to direct all young girls to get three doses of a

vaccine that has not been proven safe or effective in their age group."

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), founded in 1982 by

parents of vaccine injured children, has been a leading critic of

one-size-fits-all mass vaccination policies and the lack of basic

science research into biological mechanisms and high risk factors for

vaccine-induced brain and immune system dysfunction. As a member of the

FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee

(VRBPAC), Barbara Loe Fisher urged trials include adequate safety data

on pre-adolescent children and warned against fast tracking Gardasil at

the November 28-29, 2001 VRBPAC meeting .[11

<http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>]

Full 2001 FDA Transcript:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines

& Related

Biological

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines%20 & %20Related%20Biological>

For more information go to www.NVIC.org <http://www.NVIC.org>.

-end-

1. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>

[Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus Types 6,11,16,18) Recombinant

Vaccine] product insert. Table 6.

2. Food and Drug Administration.

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

May

18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological

Products Advisory Committee: Gardasil HPV Quadrivalent Vaccine.

3. Kawahara M et al. 2001. Effects of aluminum on the neurotoxicty of

primary cultured neurons and on the aggregation of betamyloid protein.

/Brain Res. Bull.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>/

55, 211-217.

4. Redhead K. et al. 1992. Aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines transiently

increase aluminum levels in murine brain tissue. /Pharmacol. Toxico

<http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm>/.

70,

278-280.

5. Sahin G. et al. 1994. Determination of aluminum levels in the

kidney,

liver and brain of mice treated with aluminum hydroxide. /Biol. Trace.

Elem. Res

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>/.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=pubmed>

1194 Apr-May;41 (1-2):129-35.

6. Gherardi M et al. 2001. Macrophagaic myofastitis lesions assess

long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminum hydroxide in muscle.

/Brain

<http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821>/,

Vol

124, No. 9, 1821-1831.

7. Shingde M eta la. 2005. Macrophagic myofastitis associated with

vaccine derived aluminum. /MJA

<http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>/,

183 (03):145-146.

8. Merck & Co. May 18, 2006. Merck briefing document

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>for

Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee: Gardasil.

Table 24.

9. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>product

insert: Serious Adverse Experiences.

10. Food and Drug Administration.

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

May

18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological

Products Advisory Committee.: Gardasil. Table 32.

11. Food and Drug Administration.

<http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>

November 29, 2001. Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory

Committee. Excerpt from transcript.

Here is another: this one also has a video with a mother's story about

what happened to her daughter.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/27/gardasil-new-video-reveals-hidden-dangers.aspx

Dr. Mercola     Dr. Mercola's Comments:

This video provides an excellent, though tragic, example of why it’s

essential to do your homework before submitting yourself or your child

to a vaccination.

In the case of Gardasil, which is, according to this video, the world’s

first genetically altered vaccine, the evidence stacking up against

this

vaccine is striking.

As of August 2007, a review of the National Vaccine Information Center

revealed the following, quite alarming, statistic about this

unnecessary

vaccine: 2,207 adverse reactions to Gardasil

<http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Gardasil-Reactions-and-Deaths-on-the-Rise-29768.aspx>

have been reported. Among them:

    * 5 girls died

    * 31 were considered life-threatening

    * 1,385 required a visit to the emergency room

    * 451 of the girls have not recovered as of July 2007

    * 51 of the girls were disabled

This vaccine is also the most expensive vaccine on the market, so you

can follow the money trail to find out why Merck is now trying to push

this cervical cancer vaccine on boys

<http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/18/absurd-vaccine-marketing-cervical-cancer-vaccinations-for-boys.aspx>!

Getting the Facts About HPV

Health care officials and the media are portraying Gardasil as the

long-awaited cure for cervical cancer, and they’re telling people that

the side effects are minimal.

However, the side effects of this brand-new vaccine are just beginning

to surface, and as time goes by, their severity seems to be increasing.

Further, while cervical cancer is a serious issue, it is not the

epidemic that the media is portraying it to be

<http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/The-Deception-Behind-HPV-Infection-Rates-That-Sells-Unnecessary-Vaccines-6574.aspx>.

Of the more than 6 million cases of HPV that occur each year, about 90

percent of them clear up on their own within two years. If you eat

right, exercise, and keep stress in your life under control

<http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse1.htm>,

your immune system should

be healthy enough to clear up HPV. Secondly, the vaccine is not

fool-proof. You can still get "non-vaccine" types of HPV even if you

get

vaccinated.

Finally, remember that HPV is a sexually transmitted disease, which

means that it is nearly 100 percent avoidable by modifying your

lifestyle habits.

If you have friends of family members who are considering the Gardasil

vaccine for their daughter (or son), please forward this video to them

so they can make an informed decision.

[Guest guest]

One thing to keep in mind -- it only prevents a very small percentage

of HPV. Teaching your child safe sex practices can eliminate more than

that on its own. I agree entirely, research, but not just the FDA and

governmental sites, but all over. Read the fine print. Know how many

girls are actually facing side effects (pushing 1700 now, I believe?)

that are worse than those listed as 'typical.' And then there's a few

possible deaths. Too much risk for too little payback, imo.

RUTHIE BRYAN DOLEZAL wrote:



If it were me, I would get the vaccine; if I had a daughter (I

don't but want some girls) I would get it, because the point is to help

prevent getting HPV; sounds like anyone would want to prevent THAT if

they could, and keep from cancer; that is the hope of the shots, as far

as I know.....but I would always weigh the options.  As an innocent

minor, the choice is yours but your daughter may thank you later for

doing it, too......who knows....I would just research CONCERNS about it

first, too.  But, we support vaccines at our home, so perhaps I am

biased, but I think I prefer to say I am open minded. 

 

Ruthie

-----

Original Message -----

From:

debmetsfanaol

To:

Sent:

Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:36 AM

Subject:

Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live

Well, that was an eye-opener!  I don't think that I will be

getting this for !  two pediatricians have recommended it.  But I

think we will be safe without it!

 

What about the meningitis vaccine?  I heard that she will have

to get it for college if she doesn't get it now.  My mom died from

meningitis 8 years ago.

 

Deb

 

 

In a message dated 10/24/2007 11:15:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time, aschristensencharter (DOT) net writes:

Please google Gardisil. There has been alot of contraversy

over this

vaccine, and it causing problems for young girls. The choice is yours.

Speaking as one with some experience, weigh your choice on this VERY

carefully. I personally never was "at risk" for HPV. I always used

protection etc. My x-husband did not tell me until several months after

we were married that his x-girlfriend/mother of his older son, had

HPV.

This was at the same time that I stated having paps come back abnormal.

Yes it was definately from him, yes he gave it to me. Now that said, I

have had to have more Very painful procedures done than I care to

count,

including losing 1/2 of my cervix at the age of 25. I also was forced

to

have a complete hysterectomy at the age of 30 because the cervical

cancer caused by the HPV he gave me came back after removing part of my

cervix, and it was showing the potential to spread to my uterus and

ovaries. HPV is not something to mess around with, however, look at all

the data on the vaccine and weigh your choices. Personally, I would not

wish any of what I had to go through on anyone. As I said HPV can

happen

to even the most careful person, it happened to me.

here is just one article you can start with:

http://www.nvic.org/PressReleases/pr62706gardasilhtm

*Washington, D.C.* - The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is

calling on the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices

(ACIP)

<http://www.cdc.gov/nip/acip/agendas/agenda-jun06.pdf>

to just say "no"

on June 29 to recommending "universal use" of Merck's Gardasil vaccine

in all pre-adolescent girls. NVIC maintains that Merck's clinical

trials

did not prove the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine designed to

prevent

cervical cancer and genital warts is safe to give to young girls.

"Merck and the FDA have not been completely honest with the people

about

the pre-licensure clinical trials," said NVIC president Barbara Loe

Fisher. "Merck's pre and post-licensure marketing strategy has

positioned mass use of this vaccine by pre-teens as a morality play in

order to avoid talking about the flawed science they used to get it

licensed. This is not just about teenagers having sex, it is also about

whether Gardasil has been proven safe and effective for little girls."

The FDA allowed Merck to use a potentially reactive aluminum containing

placebo as a control for most trial participants, rather than a

non-reactive saline solution placebo.[1

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>]

A reactive placebo can artificially increase the appearance of safety

of

an experimental drug or vaccine in a clinical trial. Gardasil contains

225 mcg of aluminum and, although aluminum adjuvants have been used in

vaccines for decades, they were never tested for safety in clinical

trials. Merck and the FDA did not disclose how much aluminum was in the

placebo.[2]

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

Animal and human studies have shown that aluminum can cause nerve cell

death [3

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>]

and that vaccine aluminum adjuvants can allow aluminum to enter the

brain, [4

<http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm>

5

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>]

as well as cause inflammation at the injection site leading to chronic

joint and muscle pain and fatigue. [6

<http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821>

7

<http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>]

Nearly 90 percent of Gardasil recipients and 85 percent of aluminum

placebo recipients followed-up for safety reported one or more adverse

events within 15 days of vaccination, particularly at the injection

site.[8

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>]

Pain

and swelling at injection site occurred in approximately 83 percent of

Gardasil and 73 percent of aluminum placebo recipients. About 60

percent

of those who got Gardasil or the aluminum placebo had systemic adverse

events including headache, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting,

diarrhea,

myalgia. [9

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>

10 <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>]

Gardasil recipients had more serious adverse events such as headache,

gastroenteritis, appendicitis, pelvic inflammatory disease, asthma,

bronchospasm and arthritis.

"Merck and the FDA do not reveal in public documents exactly how many 9

to 15 year old girls were in the clinical trials, how many of them

received hepatitis B vaccine and Gardasil simultaneously, and how many

of them had serious adverse events after being injected with Gardasil

or

the aluminum placebo. For example, if there were less than 1,000 little

girls actually injected with three doses of Gardasil, it is important

to

know how many had serious adverse events and how long they were

followed

for chronic health problems, such as juvenile arthritis."

According to the Merck product manufacturer insert, there was 1 case of

juvenile arthritis, 2 cases of rheumatoid arthritis, 5 cases of

arthritis, and 1 case of reactive arthritis out of 11,813 Gardasil

recipients plus 1 case of lupus and 2 cases of arthritis out of 9,701

participants primarily receiving an aluminum containing placebo.

Clinical trial investigators dismissed most of the 102 Gardasil and

placebo associated serious adverse events, including 17 deaths, that

occurred in the clinical trials as unrelated.

"There is too little long term safety and efficacy data, especially in

young girls, and too little labeling information on contraindications

for the CDC to recommend Gardasil for universal use, which is a signal

for states to mandate it," said Fisher. "Nobody at Merck, the CDC or

FDA

know if the injection of Gardasil into all pre-teen girls - especially

simultaneously with hepatitis B vaccine - will make some of them more

likely to develop arthritis or other inflammatory autoimmune and brain

disorders as teenagers and adults. With cervical cancer causing about

one percent of all cancer deaths in American women due to routine pap

screening, it was inappropriate for the FDA to fast track Gardasil. It

is way too early to direct all young girls to get three doses of a

vaccine that has not been proven safe or effective in their age group."

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), founded in 1982 by

parents of vaccine injured children, has been a leading critic of

one-size-fits-all mass vaccination policies and the lack of basic

science research into biological mechanisms and high risk factors for

vaccine-induced brain and immune system dysfunction. As a member of the

FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee

(VRBPAC), Barbara Loe Fisher urged trials include adequate safety data

on pre-adolescent children and warned against fast tracking Gardasil at

the November 28-29, 2001 VRBPAC meeting .[11

<http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>]

Full 2001 FDA Transcript:

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines

& Related

Biological

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines%20 & %20Related%20Biological>

For more information go to www.NVIC.org <http://www.NVIC.org>.

-end-

1. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>

[Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus Types 6,11,16,18) Recombinant

Vaccine] product insert. Table 6.

2. Food and Drug Administration.

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

May

18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological

Products Advisory Committee: Gardasil HPV Quadrivalent Vaccine.

3. Kawahara M et al. 2001. Effects of aluminum on the neurotoxicty of

primary cultured neurons and on the aggregation of betamyloid protein.

/Brain Res. Bull.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>/

55, 211-217.

4. Redhead K. et al. 1992. Aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines transiently

increase aluminum levels in murine brain tissue. /Pharmacol. Toxico

<http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm>/.

70,

278-280.

5. Sahin G. et al. 1994. Determination of aluminum levels in the

kidney,

liver and brain of mice treated with aluminum hydroxide. /Biol. Trace.

Elem. Res

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>/.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=pubmed>

1194 Apr-May;41 (1-2):129-35.

6. Gherardi M et al. 2001. Macrophagaic myofastitis lesions assess

long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminum hydroxide in muscle.

/Brain

<http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821>/,

Vol

124, No. 9, 1821-1831.

7. Shingde M eta la. 2005. Macrophagic myofastitis associated with

vaccine derived aluminum. /MJA

<http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>/,

183 (03):145-146.

8. Merck & Co. May 18, 2006. Merck briefing document

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>for

Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee: Gardasil.

Table 24.

9. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>product

insert: Serious Adverse Experiences.

10. Food and Drug Administration.

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

May

18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological

Products Advisory Committee.: Gardasil. Table 32.

11. Food and Drug Administration.

<http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>

November 29, 2001. Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory

Committee. Excerpt from transcript.

Here is another: this one also has a video with a mother's story about

what happened to her daughter.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/27/gardasil-new-video-reveals-hidden-dangers.aspx

Dr. Mercola     Dr. Mercola's Comments:

This video provides an excellent, though tragic, example of why it’s

essential to do your homework before submitting yourself or your child

to a vaccination.

In the case of Gardasil, which is, according to this video, the world’s

first genetically altered vaccine, the evidence stacking up against

this

vaccine is striking.

As of August 2007, a review of the National Vaccine Information Center

revealed the following, quite alarming, statistic about this

unnecessary

vaccine: 2,207 adverse reactions to Gardasil

<http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Gardasil-Reactions-and-Deaths-on-the-Rise-29768.aspx>

have been reported. Among them:

    * 5 girls died

    * 31 were considered life-threatening

    * 1,385 required a visit to the emergency room

    * 451 of the girls have not recovered as of July 2007

    * 51 of the girls were disabled

This vaccine is also the most expensive vaccine on the market, so you

can follow the money trail to find out why Merck is now trying to push

this cervical cancer vaccine on boys

<http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/18/absurd-vaccine-marketing-cervical-cancer-vaccinations-for-boys.aspx>!

Getting the Facts About HPV

Health care officials and the media are portraying Gardasil as the

long-awaited cure for cervical cancer, and they’re telling people that

the side effects are minimal.

However, the side effects of this brand-new vaccine are just beginning

to surface, and as time goes by, their severity seems to be increasing.

Further, while cervical cancer is a serious issue, it is not the

epidemic that the media is portraying it to be

<http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/The-Deception-Behind-HPV-Infection-Rates-That-Sells-Unnecessary-Vaccines-6574.aspx>.

Of the more than 6 million cases of HPV that occur each year, about 90

percent of them clear up on their own within two years. If you eat

right, exercise, and keep stress in your life under control

<http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse1.htm>,

your immune system should

be healthy enough to clear up HPV. Secondly, the vaccine is not

fool-proof. You can still get "non-vaccine" types of HPV even if you

get

vaccinated.

Finally, remember that HPV is a sexually transmitted disease, which

means that it is nearly 100 percent avoidable by modifying your

lifestyle habits.

If you have friends of family members who are considering the Gardasil

vaccine for their daughter (or son), please forward this video to them

so they can make an informed decision.

[Guest guest]

Texas tried to make it mandatory, but it was changed -- not enough

research and it was taking the choice out of the parents' hands.

Every vaccine, new or not, removes a bit more of our rights -- the

medical establishment is not perfect. (Think thalidomide.) I don't want

my children ever being someone's guinea pigs or hurt because I caved

when a doctor made me feel bad for doing what I think is right. They

are my kids, so stand back lol

Rose wrote:

Deb,

<<<the new one for young girls>>>. are you

speaking of the vaccine that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian

cancer? I heard on the news that some states made it mandatory for

girls to have this, and some schools are giving them out "in school".

I don't know which states.

debmetsfanaol wrote:

's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine

and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all?

Deb

In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I

don't

really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip

again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that

issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that

I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids

being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we

need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading

our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely

cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out

the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one.

Thanks for the feedback.

>

> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do

have

> some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right

for

> one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton

of

> intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained,

and

> many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr.

Kartzinel

> is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time

> feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there.

Honestly,

> personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has

issues,

> and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the

peeve I

> have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her

son, but

> to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I

say

> my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an

autistic." My

> daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be

bothered

by

> that. It's just words.

>

> also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered

him.

> You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll

never

> be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can

recover.

>

> The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on

a

> body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a

child

> who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed

to.

> (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having

vaccines.

> Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the

> number of children who can't process the increased toxins is

growing at

> a scary epidemic rate.)

>

> Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes

sense

> that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are

in

> small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can

still

be

> WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.

>

> And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999,

but

> because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that

weren't yet

> used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet

> expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with

thimerasol

> still remained.

>

> Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are

just one

> of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's

a

lot

> of toxins out there contributing to it all.

>

> Hope that helps!

> Donna

>

Debbie Salerno

Maine Coon Rescue

Board Member

DNA Manager

Eastern Regional Director

Vice President

www.mainecoonrescue.net

See what's new at AOL.com

and Make AOL Your Homepage.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Is this a local thing? My dd's college hasn't required it. In fact, no

shot record was required at all. There are waivers, check into it if

you don't want your child getting it..and talk to your daughters, if

they're over 18, to be sure they know what they'd be getting, too.

Liz Bohn wrote:

Most colleges do require the meningitis vaccine. If it gets into

the dorms, it spreads like wildfire.

Liz

On Oct 25, 2007, at 6:36 AM, debmetsfanaol wrote:

Well,

that was an eye-opener! I don't think that I will be getting this for

! two pediatricians have recommended it. But I think we will be

safe without it!

What

about the meningitis vaccine? I heard that she will have to get it for

college if she doesn't get it now. My mom died from meningitis 8 years

ago.

Deb

[Guest guest]

For us, MMR had nothing to do with it -- but there are kids out there,

I know of some, who were never the same after. Each body is different,

so one environmental toxin may be fine for one child but may push

another into severe autism, another may make a child mildly autistic,

etc. MMR is a high dosage all at once, I wish I'd taken the time to get

it broken up into separate shots and weeks apart.

Dee DiMemmo wrote:

i dont agree with the mmr reasoning either...my son had not been

vaccinated prior to his diagnosis, and he was still autistic....i

think it has a lot more to do with environmental exposures and such as

well as medications given to moms when pregnant. the nova program did

bring up some interesting thought regarding epigenetics too.

<mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org> wrote:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I

don't

really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip

again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that

issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that

I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids

being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we

need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading

our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely

cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out

the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one.

Thanks for the feedback.

>

> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do

have

> some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right

for

> one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton

of

> intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained,

and

> many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr.

Kartzinel

> is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time

> feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there.

Honestly,

> personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has

issues,

> and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the

peeve I

> have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her

son, but

> to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I

say

> my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an

autistic." My

> daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be

bothered

by

> that. It's just words.

>

> also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered

him.

> You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll

never

> be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can

recover.

>

> The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on

a

> body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a

child

> who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed

to.

> (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having

vaccines.

> Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the

> number of children who can't process the increased toxins is

growing at

> a scary epidemic rate.)

>

> Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes

sense

> that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are

in

> small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can

still

be

> WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.

>

> And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999,

but

> because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that

weren't yet

> used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet

> expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with

thimerasol

> still remained.

>

> Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are

just one

> of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's

a

lot

> of toxins out there contributing to it all.

>

> Hope that helps!

> Donna

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Donna B after watching them take about this on the news. I've told my kids that they are NOT to get any vaccines in the school. stand your grounds is right! When my kids were at the new doctors offices and it was time for them to get another vaccine. I had a "vaccine book/chart record" with me with the dates and type of vaccine and the Dr's signature next to each one. I told the nurse to look at this book first, due to us moving alot, I had my own records here. She said no! she only goes by her medical chart. I again explained we moved lots of times, changing doctors lots of times, that it was possible that she didn't have all information. She right out refused to look at my book with the vaccine records I had. she then said she has other patients to see, and gave my kids their vaccine shots. she left the room with my medical vaccine book to update and sign it.

She came back about 20 minutes later with 2 doctors. She explained to me that according to her medical record book my son needed his last "MMR" vaccine. [yes, that one]!!! she said after reading my medical vaccine book he already had it and not to worry this is an extra one!!! I was so mad. (no one can undue this) the two doctors that was with her said: now he has more protection. I said he's autistics and DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING ABOUT THAT VACCINE!!! I should of walked out when that nurse wouldn't look at my personal vaccine book. If anyone decides to vaccinate their child. make sure you keep a record for yourself. especially if you move alot or switch doctors alot. they don't always have all information updated on their files..That is why I told my kids, no shots at school. Donna B <donnabzy@...> wrote: Texas tried to make it mandatory, but it was changed -- not enough research and it was taking the choice out of the parents' hands.Every vaccine, new or not, removes a bit more of our rights -- the medical establishment is not perfect. (Think thalidomide.) I don't want my children ever being someone's guinea pigs or hurt because I caved when a doctor made me feel bad for doing what I think is right. They are my kids, so stand back lolRose wrote: Deb, <<<the new

one for young girls>>>. are you speaking of the vaccine that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian cancer? I heard on the news that some states made it mandatory for girls to have this, and some schools are giving them out "in school". I don't know which states.debmetsfanaol wrote: 's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all? Deb In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes: I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I don't really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one. Thanks for the feedback. >> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and > many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say > my son 'is autistic'

sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by > that. It's just words.> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover.> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a > body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. > (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the > number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at > a scary epidemic rate.)> > Be

careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense > that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but > because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet > used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol > still remained.> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot > of toxins out there contributing to it all.> > Hope that helps!> Donna> Debbie SalernoMaine Coon RescueBoard MemberDNA ManagerEastern Regional DirectorVice Presidentwww.mainecoonrescue.net See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It's required in colleges where kids sleep in dormitories.LizOn Oct 25, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Donna B wrote:Is this a local thing? My dd's college hasn't required it. In fact, no shot record was required at all. There are waivers, check into it if you don't want your child getting it..and talk to your daughters, if they're over 18, to be sure they know what they'd be getting, too.Liz Bohn wrote:Most colleges do require the meningitis vaccine. If it gets into the dorms, it spreads like wildfire.LizOn Oct 25, 2007, at 6:36 AM, debmetsfanaol wrote:Well, that was an eye-opener!  I don't think that I will be getting this for !  two pediatricians have recommended it.  But I think we will be safe without it! What about the meningitis vaccine?  I heard that she will have to get it for college if she doesn't get it now.  My mom died from meningitis 8 years ago. Deb

[Guest guest]

Hmm, never heard that, my friend's kids haven't had to so maybe they

used the waivers -- we'd use the waiver too. (Dd's lucky, close enough

to live at home still.)

Liz Bohn wrote:

It's required in colleges where kids sleep in dormitories.

Liz

On Oct 25, 2007, at 3:18 PM, Donna B wrote:

Is

this a local thing? My dd's college hasn't required it. In fact, no

shot record was required at all. There are waivers, check into it if

you don't want your child getting it..and talk to your daughters, if

they're over 18, to be sure they know what they'd be getting, too.

Liz Bohn wrote:

Most

colleges do require the meningitis vaccine. If it gets into the dorms,

it spreads like wildfire.

Liz

On

Oct 25, 2007, at 6:36 AM, debmetsfanaol

wrote:

Well,

that was an eye-opener! I don't think that I will be getting this for

! two pediatricians have recommended it. But I think we will be

safe without it!

What

about the meningitis vaccine? I heard that she will have to get it for

college if she doesn't get it now. My mom died from meningitis 8 years

ago.

Deb

[Guest guest]

Oh, Debbie! Hang in there! My family members would never babysit - they said she was too energetic for them! And her own cousins would not want to be bothered with her when they had friends over. It is sad. I think it's important that you do things together. Do you have any friends with kids his age? That's how would socialize with the kids. Social skills groups are good, too.

Deb

In a message dated 10/25/2007 9:38:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, melamedj@... writes:

I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie

Debbie SalernoMaine Coon RescueBoard MemberDNA ManagerEastern Regional DirectorVice Presidentwww.mainecoonrescue.netSee what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

My dd gets seizures already, and I have to wonder (since they can't

find any brain anomaly) if the vaccines didn't contribute already. It's

scary, but it's definitely a decision everyone has to make on their

own. I won't do it because meningitis stats aren't high enough, imo, to

prove everyone needs a vaccine. But, that's just me...until these

things have been around and they can tell me what long-term effects

are, I'm staying away.

debmetsfan@... wrote:

I

would get the meningitis vaccine because I have seen what i could do.

My mom was in a coma for two weeks. She had to get a blood

transfusion. She was having seizures. It was awful. Finally, her

heart gave out. It is a nasty way to go.

I

think I will hold off on the other shot.

Deb

In

a message dated 10/25/2007 11:45:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

craftychick70 writes:

i work in a hospital and meningitis is a very ugly miserable

disease...especially for teenagers and college students-it can

(and does) kill a lot people diagnosed with it. unless you and nicole

and take all the precautions possible to avoid it, i would say get the

vaccination. the hpv the jury is still out on...i dont think there has

been enough long term research done on it to make a strong decision one

way or another

debmetsfanaol wrote:

's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis

vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at

all?

Deb

In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight

Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that

I don't

really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip

again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that

issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that

I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids

being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we

need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading

our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely

cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out

the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one.

Thanks for the feedback.

>

> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do

have

> some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right

for

> one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton

of

> intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained,

and

> many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr.

Kartzinel

> is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time

> feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there.

Honestly,

> personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has

issues,

> and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the

peeve I

> have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her

son, but

> to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I

say

> my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an

autistic." My

> daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be

bothered

by

> that. It's just words.

>

> also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered

him.

> You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll

never

> be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can

recover.

>

> The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on

a

> body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a

child

> who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed

to.

> (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having

vaccines.

> Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the

> number of children who can't process the increased toxins is

growing at

> a scary epidemic rate.)

>

> Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes

sense

> that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are

in

> small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can

still

be

> WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.

>

> And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999,

but

> because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that

weren't yet

> used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet

> expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with

thimerasol

> still remained.

>

> Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are

just one

> of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's

a

lot

> of toxins out there contributing to it all.

>

> Hope that helps!

> Donna

>

Debbie Salerno

Maine Coon Rescue

Board Member

DNA Manager

Eastern Regional Director

Vice President

www.mainecoonrescue.net

See what's new at AOL.com

and Make AOL Your Homepage.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Here's some information from WEBMD,

human papillomavirus (HPV)

Font Size

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1. an icosahedral DNA virus, 55 nm in diameter, of the genus

/Papillomavirus/, family /Papovaviridae;/ certain types cause

cutaneous and genital warts; other types are associated with

severe cervical intraepithelial neoplasia and anogenital and

laryngeal carcinomas. Over 70 types have been characterized on the

basis of DNA relatedness.

Syn: infectious papilloma virus

Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Test

A human papillomavirus (HPV) test is done to find a high-risk HPV

infection in women. HPV is a sexually transmitted disease (STD)

<http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/sexually-transmitted-diseases-stds>. An

HPV test checks for the genetic material (DNA

<http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/dna>) of the human papillomavirus. Like a

Pap test

<http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/pap-test-papanicolaou-test-or-pap-smear>,

an HPV test is done on a sample of cells collected from the cervix

<http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervix-18980>

<http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervix-18980>.

There are many types of HPV. Some types cause warts

<http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/warts> that you can see or feel. Other

types do not cause any symptoms. Most people do not know they have an

HPV infection.

This test will identify whether a high-risk type of HPV is present. In

women, high-risk types of HPV (such as types 16, 18, 31, and 45) cause

changes in the cells of the cervix

<http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervix-8243> that can be seen as abnormal

changes on a Pap test. Abnormal cervical cell changes may resolve on

their own without treatment. However, some untreated cervical cell

changes can progress to serious abnormalities and may lead to cervical

cancer <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervical-cancer-3675> over time if

it is not treated.

Although HPV is found in both men and women, men are not tested for the

disease.

Right now only 4 types of the over 70 cause cancer, the rest just cause

either no symptoms or they cause genital warts. Neither pose any real

health threat, except during pregnancy. The possibility of having a

c-section is high if the woman has active warts, however they can be

safely removed prior to delivery if a vaginal delivery is required.

Cancer is a serious risk with the 4 they have identified. It can be

removed (very painful procedure while you are awake). However, it CAN

and sometimes DOES come back (mine did, and I was not reinfected at all).

Please do not misunderstand me, I have been through more than I would

wish on my worst enemy, and my family has a very very very high risk of

all types of cancer. That being said, yes, it would be great if we

could come up with immunizations that would make it impossible to get

cancer. Yes an immunization needs to be developed that safely

significantly reduces a womans chances of getting cervical cancer.

However, in my humble opinion Gardasil is not that immunization. If my

aspie son were a daughter instead with all of his aspie nature, there is

NO way I would let him be immunized with Gardasil, because there is a

very real chance of causing seizures (check the immunization injury list

for gardasil and seizures, its way to high). Being that seizures is

something we all have to watch with our kids, giving them an

immunization that has a real likelyhood of causing a seizure and/or

seizure disorder????? Not for me(that is just my opinion). Now, I have

thus far immunized each of my 2 boys aged 7 (aspie) and 4 (nt), however,

I am looking at getting an exemption for any further immunizations with

both boys (but most especially with my as son). Yes some vaccines may

be safe, some may not. Its not like when I was young (im only 31), but

the number of vaccines I got was ridiculously low in comparison to the

147 each of my boys will get by the time they are entering 9th grade.

HPV is real, its here, and it can be deadly. This I know from personal

experience. over 70% of the people with HPV have no idea they have it.

There is no test for men, unless they have active warts. The kind that

causes warts DOES NOT cause cancer. Its all the men running around who

have the 4 strains that there is no test for men that are spreading the

CANCER causing strains to women. No it is not the mans fault (unless he

knew he had been exposed and did not tell his partner, ie my x, the

x-girlfriend carried 2 strains, he only got 1, the cancer causing

strain). Yes something needs to be done. But our kids are not test

subjects. Many states have removed the requirement to vaccinate with

this vaccine based on the evidence of harm it does. If your state is

one of the few that does require it, I hope that it is a state that

would allow parents an exemption. If you choose to vaccinate, bless you

for trying to prevent this type of cancer in your child. It is a very

tough choice. One I am glad I do not have to make for my children.

Also, it is not something (unless required) that must be done when your

daughters are children. It can be started anytime from 9 or 11 yrs old

up to the girls 26th birthday. As long as the first shot is given by

the 26th birthday it must be covered by insurance and it falls in line

with the requirements to use this vaccine. So for those of you that are

torn and not in a required state, maybe waiting until your daughter is

closer to 18 where she can have a say and make an adult decision based

on the facts.

debmetsfan@... wrote:

>

> Well, that was an eye-opener! I don't think that I will be getting

> this for ! two pediatricians have recommended it. But I think

> we will be safe without it!

>

> What about the meningitis vaccine? I heard that she will have to get

> it for college if she doesn't get it now. My mom died from meningitis

> 8 years ago.

>

> Deb

>

>

> In a message dated 10/24/2007 11:15:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> aschristensen@... writes:

>

> Please google Gardisil. There has been alot of contraversy over this

> vaccine, and it causing problems for young girls. The choice is

> yours.

> Speaking as one with some experience, weigh your choice on this VERY

> carefully. I personally never was " at risk " for HPV. I always used

> protection etc. My x-husband did not tell me until several months

> after

> we were married that his x-girlfriend/mother of his older son, had

> HPV.

> This was at the same time that I stated having paps come back

> abnormal.

> Yes it was definately from him, yes he gave it to me. Now that

> said, I

> have had to have more Very painful procedures done than I care to

> count,

> including losing 1/2 of my cervix at the age of 25. I also was

> forced to

> have a complete hysterectomy at the age of 30 because the cervical

> cancer caused by the HPV he gave me came back after removing part

> of my

> cervix, and it was showing the potential to spread to my uterus and

> ovaries. HPV is not something to mess around with, however, look

> at all

> the data on the vaccine and weigh your choices. Personally, I

> would not

> wish any of what I had to go through on anyone. As I said HPV can

> happen

> to even the most careful person, it happened to me.

>

> here is just one article you can start with:

> http://www.nvic.org/PressReleases/pr62706gardasil.htm

>

> *Washington, D.C.* - The National Vaccine Information Center

> (NVIC) is

> calling on the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices

> (ACIP)

> <http://www.cdc.gov/nip/acip/agendas/agenda-jun06.pdf> to just say

> " no "

> on June 29 to recommending " universal use " of Merck's Gardasil

> vaccine

> in all pre-adolescent girls. NVIC maintains that Merck's clinical

> trials

> did not prove the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine designed to

> prevent

> cervical cancer and genital warts is safe to give to young girls.

>

> " Merck and the FDA have not been completely honest with the people

> about

> the pre-licensure clinical trials, " said NVIC president Barbara Loe

> Fisher. " Merck's pre and post-licensure marketing strategy has

> positioned mass use of this vaccine by pre-teens as a morality

> play in

> order to avoid talking about the flawed science they used to get it

> licensed. This is not just about teenagers having sex, it is also

> about

> whether Gardasil has been proven safe and effective for little girls. "

>

> The FDA allowed Merck to use a potentially reactive aluminum

> containing

> placebo as a control for most trial participants, rather than a

> non-reactive saline solution placebo.[1

>

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>]

>

> A reactive placebo can artificially increase the appearance of

> safety of

> an experimental drug or vaccine in a clinical trial. Gardasil

> contains

> 225 mcg of aluminum and, although aluminum adjuvants have been

> used in

> vaccines for decades, they were never tested for safety in clinical

> trials. Merck and the FDA did not disclose how much aluminum was

> in the

> placebo.[2]

> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

>

> Animal and human studies have shown that aluminum can cause nerve

> cell

> death [3

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstr\

act & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>]

>

> and that vaccine aluminum adjuvants can allow aluminum to enter the

> brain, [4

> <http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm> 5

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstr\

act & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>]

>

> as well as cause inflammation at the injection site leading to

> chronic

> joint and muscle pain and fatigue. [6

> <http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821> 7

> <http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>]

> Nearly 90 percent of Gardasil recipients and 85 percent of aluminum

> placebo recipients followed-up for safety reported one or more

> adverse

> events within 15 days of vaccination, particularly at the injection

> site.[8

> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>]

> Pain

> and swelling at injection site occurred in approximately 83

> percent of

> Gardasil and 73 percent of aluminum placebo recipients. About 60

> percent

> of those who got Gardasil or the aluminum placebo had systemic

> adverse

> events including headache, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting,

> diarrhea,

> myalgia. [9

> <http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>

>

> 10 <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>]

> Gardasil recipients had more serious adverse events such as headache,

> gastroenteritis, appendicitis, pelvic inflammatory disease, asthma,

> bronchospasm and arthritis.

>

> " Merck and the FDA do not reveal in public documents exactly how

> many 9

> to 15 year old girls were in the clinical trials, how many of them

> received hepatitis B vaccine and Gardasil simultaneously, and how

> many

> of them had serious adverse events after being injected with

> Gardasil or

> the aluminum placebo. For example, if there were less than 1,000

> little

> girls actually injected with three doses of Gardasil, it is

> important to

> know how many had serious adverse events and how long they were

> followed

> for chronic health problems, such as juvenile arthritis. "

>

> According to the Merck product manufacturer insert, there was 1

> case of

> juvenile arthritis, 2 cases of rheumatoid arthritis, 5 cases of

> arthritis, and 1 case of reactive arthritis out of 11,813 Gardasil

> recipients plus 1 case of lupus and 2 cases of arthritis out of 9,701

> participants primarily receiving an aluminum containing placebo.

> Clinical trial investigators dismissed most of the 102 Gardasil and

> placebo associated serious adverse events, including 17 deaths, that

> occurred in the clinical trials as unrelated.

>

> " There is too little long term safety and efficacy data,

> especially in

> young girls, and too little labeling information on contraindications

> for the CDC to recommend Gardasil for universal use, which is a

> signal

> for states to mandate it, " said Fisher. " Nobody at Merck, the CDC

> or FDA

> know if the injection of Gardasil into all pre-teen girls -

> especially

> simultaneously with hepatitis B vaccine - will make some of them more

> likely to develop arthritis or other inflammatory autoimmune and

> brain

> disorders as teenagers and adults. With cervical cancer causing about

> one percent of all cancer deaths in American women due to routine pap

> screening, it was inappropriate for the FDA to fast track

> Gardasil. It

> is way too early to direct all young girls to get three doses of a

> vaccine that has not been proven safe or effective in their age

> group. "

>

> The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), founded in 1982 by

> parents of vaccine injured children, has been a leading critic of

> one-size-fits-all mass vaccination policies and the lack of basic

> science research into biological mechanisms and high risk factors for

> vaccine-induced brain and immune system dysfunction. As a member

> of the

> FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee

> (VRBPAC), Barbara Loe Fisher urged trials include adequate safety

> data

> on pre-adolescent children and warned against fast tracking

> Gardasil at

> the November 28-29, 2001 VRBPAC meeting .[11

> <http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>]

>

> Full 2001 FDA Transcript:

> http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines & Related

> Biological

>

<http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines%20 & %20Related%20Biologi\

cal>

>

> For more information go to www.NVIC.org <http://www.NVIC.org>.

>

> -end-

>

> 1. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil

> <http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>

>

> [Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus Types 6,11,16,18) Recombinant

> Vaccine] product insert. Table 6.

>

> 2. Food and Drug Administration.

> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf> May

> 18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological

> Products Advisory Committee: Gardasil HPV Quadrivalent Vaccine.

>

> 3. Kawahara M et al. 2001. Effects of aluminum on the neurotoxicty of

> primary cultured neurons and on the aggregation of betamyloid

> protein.

> /Brain Res. Bull.

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstr\

act & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>/

>

> 55, 211-217.

>

> 4. Redhead K. et al. 1992. Aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines transiently

> increase aluminum levels in murine brain tissue. /Pharmacol. Toxico

> <http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm>/. 70,

> 278-280.

>

> 5. Sahin G. et al. 1994. Determination of aluminum levels in the

> kidney,

> liver and brain of mice treated with aluminum hydroxide. /Biol.

> Trace.

> Elem. Res

>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstr\

act & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>/.

>

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=pubmed>

> 1194 Apr-May;41 (1-2):129-35.

>

> 6. Gherardi M et al. 2001. Macrophagaic myofastitis lesions assess

> long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminum hydroxide in

> muscle.

> /Brain

> <http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821>/,

> Vol

> 124, No. 9, 1821-1831.

>

> 7. Shingde M eta la. 2005. Macrophagic myofastitis associated with

> vaccine derived aluminum. /MJA

> <http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>/,

>

> 183 (03):145-146.

>

> 8. Merck & Co. May 18, 2006. Merck briefing document

> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>for

> Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee:

> Gardasil.

> Table 24.

>

> 9. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil

>

<http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>produc\

t

>

> insert: Serious Adverse Experiences.

>

> 10. Food and Drug Administration.

> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf> May

> 18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological

> Products Advisory Committee.: Gardasil. Table 32.

>

> 11. Food and Drug Administration.

> <http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>

> November 29, 2001. Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory

> Committee. Excerpt from transcript.

>

>

> Here is another: this one also has a video with a mother's story

> about

> what happened to her daughter.

>

>

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/27/gardasil-new-video\

-reveals-hidden-dangers.aspx

>

> Dr. Mercola Dr. Mercola's Comments:

> This video provides an excellent, though tragic, example of why it’s

> essential to do your homework before submitting yourself or your

> child

> to a vaccination.

>

> In the case of Gardasil, which is, according to this video, the

> world’s

> first genetically altered vaccine, the evidence stacking up

> against this

> vaccine is striking.

>

> As of August 2007, a review of the National Vaccine Information

> Center

> revealed the following, quite alarming, statistic about this

> unnecessary

> vaccine: 2,207 adverse reactions to Gardasil

>

<http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Gardasil-Reactions-and-Deaths-on-the-Ris\

e-29768.aspx>

>

> have been reported. Among them:

>

> * 5 girls died

> * 31 were considered life-threatening

> * 1,385 required a visit to the emergency room

> * 451 of the girls have not recovered as of July 2007

> * 51 of the girls were disabled

>

> This vaccine is also the most expensive vaccine on the market, so you

> can follow the money trail to find out why Merck is now trying to

> push

> this cervical cancer vaccine on boys

>

<http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/18/absurd-vaccine-ma\

rketing-cervical-cancer-vaccinations-for-boys.aspx>!

>

> Getting the Facts About HPV

>

> Health care officials and the media are portraying Gardasil as the

> long-awaited cure for cervical cancer, and they’re telling people

> that

> the side effects are minimal.

>

> However, the side effects of this brand-new vaccine are just

> beginning

> to surface, and as time goes by, their severity seems to be

> increasing.

>

> Further, while cervical cancer is a serious issue, it is not the

> epidemic that the media is portraying it to be

>

<http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/The-Deception-Behind-HPV-Infection-Rates\

-That-Sells-Unnecessary-Vaccines-6574.aspx>.

>

> Of the more than 6 million cases of HPV that occur each year,

> about 90

> percent of them clear up on their own within two years. If you eat

> right, exercise, and keep stress in your life under control

> <http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse1.htm>, your immune system

> should

> be healthy enough to clear up HPV. Secondly, the vaccine is not

> fool-proof. You can still get " non-vaccine " types of HPV even if

> you get

> vaccinated.

>

> Finally, remember that HPV is a sexually transmitted disease, which

> means that it is nearly 100 percent avoidable by modifying your

> lifestyle habits.

>

> If you have friends of family members who are considering the

> Gardasil

> vaccine for their daughter (or son), please forward this video to

> them

> so they can make an informed decision.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Donna, I agree with you. I don't remember who's post I read this from, but they said, the safest thing to do is teach your children safe sex. educateDonna B <donnabzy@...> wrote: My dd gets seizures already, and I have to wonder (since they can't find any brain anomaly) if the vaccines didn't contribute already. It's scary, but it's definitely a decision everyone has to make on their own. I won't do it because meningitis stats aren't high enough, imo, to prove everyone needs a vaccine. But, that's just

me...until these things have been around and they can tell me what long-term effects are, I'm staying away.debmetsfanaol wrote: I would get the meningitis vaccine because I have seen what i could do. My mom was in a coma for two weeks. She had to get a blood transfusion. She was having seizures. It was awful. Finally, her heart gave out. It is a nasty way to go. I think I will hold off on the other shot. Deb In a message dated 10/25/2007 11:45:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, craftychick70 writes: i work in a hospital and meningitis is a very ugly miserable disease...especially for teenagers and college students-it can (and does) kill a lot people diagnosed with it. unless you and nicole and take all the precautions possible to avoid it, i would say get the vaccination. the hpv the jury is still out on...i dont think there has been enough long term research done on it to make a strong decision one way or anotherdebmetsfanaol wrote: 's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all? Deb In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes: I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I

don't really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one. Thanks for the feedback. >> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do

have > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and > many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say > my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I

can't be bothered by > that. It's just words.> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover.> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a > body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. > (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the > number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at > a scary epidemic rate.)> > Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense > that they aren't going to show the

side-effects, unless they are in > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but > because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet > used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol > still remained.> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot > of toxins out there contributing to it all.> > Hope that helps!> Donna> Debbie SalernoMaine Coon RescueBoard MemberDNA ManagerEastern Regional DirectorVice Presidentwww.mainecoonrescue.net See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your

Homepage. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

These children are more able than most

other people. They have their quirks but we all do. We all have our

weaknesses. Our children just have weaknesses that are more noticeable.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Donna B

Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007

2:08 PM

Subject: Re: ( )

Re: Larry King Live

I totally

agree about the vaccination schedule -- I'd love to see it changed! says she's taking it on, so I hope so. She's

marching on Washington

in April, I'd love to be there.

Nothing's going to change without a lot of public outcry. We can't even get ABA paid for, and not all

of us get even speech/OT covered, it's a darn shame.

I also wouldn't call my son a 'broken child,' if I wasn't clear. He's just my

son, in all his eccentricities. I just want him healthy, to fix those parts

that don't work right.

wrote:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel

is just that I don't

really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip

again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that

issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that

I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR

for their kids

being autistic, and the MMR does

not contain any. I do think that we

need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading

our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely

cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out

the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one.

Thanks for the feedback.

>

> I agreed with Dr.

Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that

these kids do

have

> some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right

for

> one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton

of

> intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained,

and

> many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr.

Kartzinel

> is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time

> feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there.

Honestly,

> personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has

issues,

> and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the

peeve I

> have with Holly

-Peete; she can feel that

way about her

son, but

> to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I

say

> my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is " an

autistic. " My

> daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered

by

> that. It's just words.

>

> also never says she 'cured'

her son. She says she recovered

him.

> You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll

never

> be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can

recover.

>

> The thing with the MMR shot

is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on

a

> body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a

child

> who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to.

> (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having

vaccines.

> Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the

> number of children who can't process the increased toxins is

growing at

> a scary epidemic rate.)

>

> Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes

sense

> that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in

> small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still

be

> WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.

>

> And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999,

but

> because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that

weren't yet

> used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet

> expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol

> still remained.

>

> Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are

just one

> of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a

lot

> of toxins out there contributing to it all.

>

> Hope that helps!

> Donna

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our

quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How

it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot

imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would

not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to

connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he

is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other

kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he

doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my

family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard.

Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I

am low right now.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I am trying. My friend's sons are very athletic and my son is

not so they look at him like he is younger and don't want to bother

with him, even though at 7 my son is 4'6 " and has a mans size 5 foot!

He has low tone and motor planning deficits and he is scared of any

balls coming at him or anything that's on wheels (ie bikes, scooters,

skateboards). So that about sums up what boys do. And he thinks

Pokemon cards are boring (I do too). I am sure that as he gets older

he will find other boys with interests more like his because he really

is a sweet kid. Till then I guess its one day at a time. Thanks for

listening.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Oh Debbie, I wish I can say something to help be more optimistic. My son had this same problem. He wasn't accepted by anyone. His therapist worked hard to find something my son can do to share - get the kids attention at school. He introduced my son to a few magic tricks, card tricks, which my son learned and did well. Also, my son likes to make shapes from paper clips. Would you believe he can make a paperclip person holding a lease, walking a dog. so cute. Well, he first took the "magic trick" to school and he did get their attention. all the kids wanted to know how he did the trick, then another kid showed my son a trick too. another time, he took a box of paper clips and just started making his shapes, curious kids came up to him and asked what he was doing? he explained, one child said he does this with garbage bag ties, they exchanged and tried each others

experiment. Awesome!!! my son came home explaining how he learned how to make shapes from garbage bag ties and If I can get him more paper clips for some other kids to try. That was the start of interaction with kids at school. I didn't use the word "friends" because they didn't continue this relationship after school. but at school he started socializing. So, my point of all this is, maybe if you gave your son something that is interesting to get other children's attention and he shares with them, it might be a start. But, Debbie, if you already tried this, don't give up, something will work. Us parents have to experiment too. One more thing, are webkins popular in your school. If yes, let him bring in one, maybe one that no one has yet and ask if he can have their webkin's e-mail address to sent a "gift" (webkin gift). if its not popular in your school, he can bring a webkin in and start something

up... Maybe he can start something that kids would be interested in, just to start a conversation and go from there. - with the webkins, you can go on the Internet and order from there if the stores near you don't have much of a selection. Maybe your son has a toy, game, object that's an eye catcher and others would be interested in trying. Walmart has this type of ball that you pass to each kid. and when it makes a loud noise, that kid is out. kind of like "hot potato" game. Maybe that's not your son's thing, but something that he likes that would get others attention. If your son likes to build, experiment, take him to a hobby store. lots of interesting things there. explain to him if kids ask you what your doing? it would be nice to explain and ask them if they want to try? and let them try with you. small start, but see where it goes from there. Let me know what you

think. because I'm always thinking of ways to make things work. *smile* Rosedebramelamed <melamedj@...> wrote: I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers. How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and

anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for all your research for us. RobinASC <aschristensen@...> wrote: Here's some information from WEBMD,human papillomavirus (HPV) Font SizeA <javascript:setClass('textArea', 'copyNormal');javascript:setClass('fs_01', 'font_sizer_002b_fmt');javascript:setClass('fs_02', 'font_sizer_002a_fmt');javascript:setClass('fs_03', 'font_sizer_002a_fmt');>A

<javascript:setClass('textArea', 'copyMedium');javascript:setClass('fs_01', 'font_sizer_002a_fmt');javascript:setClass('fs_02', 'font_sizer_002b_fmt');javascript:setClass('fs_03', 'font_sizer_002a_fmt');>A <javascript:setClass('textArea', 'copyLarge');javascript:setClass('fs_01', 'font_sizer_002a_fmt');javascript:setClass('fs_02', 'font_sizer_002a_fmt');javascript:setClass('fs_03', 'font_sizer_002b_fmt');>1. an icosahedral DNA virus, 55 nm in diameter, of the genus/Papillomavirus/, family /Papovaviridae;/ certain types causecutaneous and genital warts; other types are associated withsevere cervical intraepithelial neoplasia and anogenital andlaryngeal carcinomas. Over 70 types have been characterized on thebasis of DNA

relatedness.Syn: infectious papilloma virusHuman Papillomavirus (HPV) TestA human papillomavirus (HPV) test is done to find a high-risk HPV infection in women. HPV is a sexually transmitted disease (STD) <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/sexually-transmitted-diseases-stds>. An HPV test checks for the genetic material (DNA <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/dna>) of the human papillomavirus. Like a Pap test <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/pap-test-papanicolaou-test-or-pap-smear>, an HPV test is done on a sample of cells collected from the cervix <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervix-18980> <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervix-18980>.There are many types of HPV. Some types cause warts <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/warts> that you can see or feel. Other types do not cause any symptoms. Most people do not know they have an HPV infection.This test will identify whether a high-risk type of HPV is present. In women, high-risk types of HPV (such as types 16, 18, 31, and 45) cause changes in the cells of the cervix <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervix-8243> that can be seen as abnormal changes on a Pap test. Abnormal cervical cell changes may resolve on their own without treatment. However, some

untreated cervical cell changes can progress to serious abnormalities and may lead to cervical cancer <http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/cervical-cancer-3675> over time if it is not treated.Although HPV is found in both men and women, men are not tested for the disease.Right now only 4 types of the over 70 cause cancer, the rest just cause either no symptoms or they cause genital warts. Neither pose any real health threat, except during pregnancy. The possibility of having a c-section is high if the woman has active warts, however they can be safely removed prior to delivery if a vaginal delivery is required. Cancer is a serious risk with the 4 they have identified. It can be removed (very painful procedure while you are awake). However, it CAN and sometimes DOES come back (mine did, and I was not reinfected at all). Please

do not misunderstand me, I have been through more than I would wish on my worst enemy, and my family has a very very very high risk of all types of cancer. That being said, yes, it would be great if we could come up with immunizations that would make it impossible to get cancer. Yes an immunization needs to be developed that safely significantly reduces a womans chances of getting cervical cancer. However, in my humble opinion Gardasil is not that immunization. If my aspie son were a daughter instead with all of his aspie nature, there is NO way I would let him be immunized with Gardasil, because there is a very real chance of causing seizures (check the immunization injury list for gardasil and seizures, its way to high). Being that seizures is something we all have to watch with our kids, giving them an immunization that has a real likelyhood of causing a seizure and/or seizure disorder????? Not for me(that is just

my opinion). Now, I have thus far immunized each of my 2 boys aged 7 (aspie) and 4 (nt), however, I am looking at getting an exemption for any further immunizations with both boys (but most especially with my as son). Yes some vaccines may be safe, some may not. Its not like when I was young (im only 31), but the number of vaccines I got was ridiculously low in comparison to the 147 each of my boys will get by the time they are entering 9th grade. HPV is real, its here, and it can be deadly. This I know from personal experience. over 70% of the people with HPV have no idea they have it. There is no test for men, unless they have active warts. The kind that causes warts DOES NOT cause cancer. Its all the men running around who have the 4 strains that there is no test for men that are spreading the CANCER causing strains to women. No it is not the mans fault (unless he knew he had been exposed and did not tell his

partner, ie my x, the x-girlfriend carried 2 strains, he only got 1, the cancer causing strain). Yes something needs to be done. But our kids are not test subjects. Many states have removed the requirement to vaccinate with this vaccine based on the evidence of harm it does. If your state is one of the few that does require it, I hope that it is a state that would allow parents an exemption. If you choose to vaccinate, bless you for trying to prevent this type of cancer in your child. It is a very tough choice. One I am glad I do not have to make for my children.Also, it is not something (unless required) that must be done when your daughters are children. It can be started anytime from 9 or 11 yrs old up to the girls 26th birthday. As long as the first shot is given by the 26th birthday it must be covered by insurance and it falls in line with the requirements to use this vaccine. So for those of you that are

torn and not in a required state, maybe waiting until your daughter is closer to 18 where she can have a say and make an adult decision based on the facts.debmetsfanaol wrote:>> Well, that was an eye-opener! I don't think that I will be getting > this for ! two pediatricians have recommended it. But I think > we will be safe without it!> > What about the meningitis vaccine? I heard that she will have to get > it for college if she doesn't get it now. My mom died from meningitis > 8 years ago.> > Deb> > > In a message dated 10/24/2007 11:15:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > aschristensencharter (DOT) net writes:>> Please google Gardisil. There has been alot of contraversy over this> vaccine, and it causing problems for young girls.

The choice is> yours.> Speaking as one with some experience, weigh your choice on this VERY> carefully. I personally never was "at risk" for HPV. I always used> protection etc. My x-husband did not tell me until several months> after> we were married that his x-girlfriend/mother of his older son, had> HPV.> This was at the same time that I stated having paps come back> abnormal.> Yes it was definately from him, yes he gave it to me. Now that> said, I> have had to have more Very painful procedures done than I care to> count,> including losing 1/2 of my cervix at the age of 25. I also was> forced to> have a complete hysterectomy at the age of 30 because the cervical> cancer caused by the HPV he gave me came back after removing part> of my> cervix, and it was showing the potential to spread to my uterus and> ovaries. HPV is not

something to mess around with, however, look> at all> the data on the vaccine and weigh your choices. Personally, I> would not> wish any of what I had to go through on anyone. As I said HPV can> happen> to even the most careful person, it happened to me.>> here is just one article you can start with:> http://www.nvic.org/PressReleases/pr62706gardasil.htm>> *Washington, D.C.* - The National Vaccine Information Center> (NVIC) is> calling on the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices> (ACIP)> <http://www.cdc.gov/nip/acip/agendas/agenda-jun06.pdf> to just say> "no"> on June 29 to recommending "universal use" of Merck's Gardasil> vaccine> in all pre-adolescent girls.

NVIC maintains that Merck's clinical> trials> did not prove the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine designed to> prevent> cervical cancer and genital warts is safe to give to young girls.>> "Merck and the FDA have not been completely honest with the people> about> the pre-licensure clinical trials," said NVIC president Barbara Loe> Fisher. "Merck's pre and post-licensure marketing strategy has> positioned mass use of this vaccine by pre-teens as a morality> play in> order to avoid talking about the flawed science they used to get it> licensed. This is not just about teenagers having sex, it is also> about> whether Gardasil has been proven safe and effective for little girls.">> The FDA allowed Merck to use a potentially reactive aluminum> containing> placebo as a control for most trial participants, rather than a> non-reactive saline

solution placebo.[1> <http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>]>> A reactive placebo can artificially increase the appearance of> safety of> an experimental drug or vaccine in a clinical trial. Gardasil> contains> 225 mcg of aluminum and, although aluminum adjuvants have been> used in> vaccines for decades, they were never tested for safety in clinical> trials. Merck and the FDA did not disclose how much aluminum was> in the> placebo.[2]> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>>> Animal and human studies have shown that aluminum can cause nerve> cell> death [3> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>]>> and that vaccine aluminum adjuvants can allow aluminum to enter the> brain, [4> <http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm> 5> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>]>> as well as cause inflammation at the injection site leading to> chronic> joint and muscle pain and fatigue. [6> <http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821> 7> <http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>]> Nearly 90 percent of Gardasil recipients and 85 percent of aluminum> placebo recipients

followed-up for safety reported one or more> adverse> events within 15 days of vaccination, particularly at the injection> site.[8> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>]> Pain> and swelling at injection site occurred in approximately 83> percent of> Gardasil and 73 percent of aluminum placebo recipients. About 60> percent> of those who got Gardasil or the aluminum placebo had systemic> adverse> events including headache, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting,> diarrhea,> myalgia. [9> <http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>>> 10 <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>]> Gardasil recipients had more serious adverse events such as headache,> gastroenteritis, appendicitis, pelvic inflammatory disease, asthma,> bronchospasm and arthritis.>> "Merck and the FDA do not reveal in public documents exactly how> many 9> to 15 year old girls were in the clinical trials, how many of them> received hepatitis B vaccine and Gardasil simultaneously, and how> many> of them had serious adverse events after being injected with> Gardasil or> the aluminum placebo. For example, if there were less than 1,000> little> girls actually injected with three doses of Gardasil, it is> important to> know how many had serious adverse events and how long they were> followed> for

chronic health problems, such as juvenile arthritis.">> According to the Merck product manufacturer insert, there was 1> case of> juvenile arthritis, 2 cases of rheumatoid arthritis, 5 cases of> arthritis, and 1 case of reactive arthritis out of 11,813 Gardasil> recipients plus 1 case of lupus and 2 cases of arthritis out of 9,701> participants primarily receiving an aluminum containing placebo.> Clinical trial investigators dismissed most of the 102 Gardasil and> placebo associated serious adverse events, including 17 deaths, that> occurred in the clinical trials as unrelated.>> "There is too little long term safety and efficacy data,> especially in> young girls, and too little labeling information on contraindications> for the CDC to recommend Gardasil for universal use, which is a> signal> for states to mandate it," said Fisher. "Nobody at Merck, the

CDC> or FDA> know if the injection of Gardasil into all pre-teen girls -> especially> simultaneously with hepatitis B vaccine - will make some of them more> likely to develop arthritis or other inflammatory autoimmune and> brain> disorders as teenagers and adults. With cervical cancer causing about> one percent of all cancer deaths in American women due to routine pap> screening, it was inappropriate for the FDA to fast track> Gardasil. It> is way too early to direct all young girls to get three doses of a> vaccine that has not been proven safe or effective in their age> group.">> The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC), founded in 1982 by> parents of vaccine injured children, has been a leading critic of> one-size-fits-all mass vaccination policies and the lack of basic> science research into biological mechanisms and high risk factors

for> vaccine-induced brain and immune system dysfunction. As a member> of the> FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee> (VRBPAC), Barbara Loe Fisher urged trials include adequate safety> data> on pre-adolescent children and warned against fast tracking> Gardasil at> the November 28-29, 2001 VRBPAC meeting .[11> <http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>]>> Full 2001 FDA Transcript:> http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines & Related> Biological> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cber01.htm#Vaccines%20 & %20Related%20Biological>>> For more information go to www.NVIC.org <http://www.NVIC.org>.>> -end->> 1. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil> <http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>>> [Quadrivalent Human Papillomavirus Types 6,11,16,18) Recombinant> Vaccine] product insert. Table 6.>> 2. Food and Drug Administration.> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf>

May> 18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological> Products Advisory Committee: Gardasil HPV Quadrivalent Vaccine.>> 3. Kawahara M et al. 2001. Effects of aluminum on the neurotoxicty of> primary cultured neurons and on the aggregation of betamyloid> protein.> /Brain Res. Bull.> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=11470317 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_DocSum>/>> 55, 211-217.>> 4. Redhead K. et al. 1992. Aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines transiently> increase aluminum levels in murine brain tissue. /Pharmacol. Toxico> <http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm>/. 70,> 278-280.>> 5. Sahin G. et al. 1994. Determination of aluminum levels in the> kidney,> liver and brain of mice treated with aluminum hydroxide. /Biol.> Trace.> Elem. Res> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=7946900 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum>/.>> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search & DB=pubmed>> 1194

Apr-May;41 (1-2):129-35.>> 6. Gherardi M et al. 2001. Macrophagaic myofastitis lesions assess> long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminum hydroxide in> muscle.> /Brain> <http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/9/1821>/,> Vol> 124, No. 9, 1821-1831.>> 7. Shingde M eta la. 2005. Macrophagic myofastitis associated with> vaccine derived aluminum. /MJA> <http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_03_010805/shi10067_fm.html>/,>> 183 (03):145-146.>> 8. Merck & Co. May 18, 2006. Merck briefing document> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B1.pdf>for> Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee:> Gardasil.> Table 24.>> 9. Merck & Co., Inc. 2006. Gardasil> <http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf>product>> insert: Serious Adverse Experiences.>> 10. Food and Drug Administration.> <http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4222B3.pdf> May> 18, 2006. FDA Background Document for Vaccines and Related Biological> Products Advisory Committee.: Gardasil. Table 32.>> 11.

Food and Drug Administration.> <http://www.nvic.org/Barbara%20Nov%2029%202001%20Meeting%20.pdf>> November 29, 2001. Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory> Committee. Excerpt from transcript.>>> Here is another: this one also has a video with a mother's story> about> what happened to her daughter.>> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/27/gardasil-new-video-reveals-hidden-dangers.aspx>> Dr. Mercola Dr. Mercola's Comments:> This video provides an excellent, though tragic, example of why it’s> essential to do your homework before submitting yourself or your> child> to a

vaccination.>> In the case of Gardasil, which is, according to this video, the> world’s> first genetically altered vaccine, the evidence stacking up> against this> vaccine is striking.>> As of August 2007, a review of the National Vaccine Information> Center> revealed the following, quite alarming, statistic about this> unnecessary> vaccine: 2,207 adverse reactions to Gardasil> <http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Gardasil-Reactions-and-Deaths-on-the-Rise-29768.aspx>>> have been reported. Among them:>> * 5 girls died> * 31 were considered life-threatening> * 1,385 required a visit to the emergency room> * 451 of the girls have not recovered as of July 2007> * 51 of the girls were

disabled>> This vaccine is also the most expensive vaccine on the market, so you> can follow the money trail to find out why Merck is now trying to> push> this cervical cancer vaccine on boys> <http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/09/18/absurd-vaccine-marketing-cervical-cancer-vaccinations-for-boys.aspx>!>> Getting the Facts About HPV>> Health care officials and the media are portraying Gardasil as the> long-awaited cure for cervical cancer, and they’re telling people> that> the side effects are minimal.>> However, the side effects of this brand-new vaccine are just> beginning> to surface, and as time goes by, their severity seems to be>

increasing.>> Further, while cervical cancer is a serious issue, it is not the> epidemic that the media is portraying it to be> <http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/The-Deception-Behind-HPV-Infection-Rates-That-Sells-Unnecessary-Vaccines-6574.aspx>.>> Of the more than 6 million cases of HPV that occur each year,> about 90> percent of them clear up on their own within two years. If you eat> right, exercise, and keep stress in your life under control> <http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse1.htm>, your immune system> should> be healthy enough to clear up HPV. Secondly, the vaccine is not> fool-proof. You can still get

"non-vaccine" types of HPV even if> you get> vaccinated.>> Finally, remember that HPV is a sexually transmitted disease, which> means that it is nearly 100 percent avoidable by modifying your> lifestyle habits.>> If you have friends of family members who are considering the> Gardasil> vaccine for their daughter (or son), please forward this video to> them> so they can make an informed decision.>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much. I am always touched when someone takes the time to

reply. It helps so much because I don't have people who really

understand that I can talk to. I will try your suggestions, they are

good ones. Your son sounds like he would be good with mine. I wish we

all lived near each other. I am in Montgomery County, PA. If our guys

had more kids like themselves to play with it would really help. We

do a social skills group that is good but at $50 a week and that being

only 1 of the therapies he needs it is tough. But we all know that

story. I wish the insurance reform would pass now!

Thanks again,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Debbie. It's ok. It's heartbreaking when our kids don't fit. It's a slap to the ego, the heart and the mind to know WHY they really don't fit, ya know? What's helped for us is letting everyone we know KNOW about our situation (well,,,,Ian's). Not many come around to play, but people know. That's good. Also,,,,,,Ian isn't that bothered that there aren't kids knocking down the doors to play. Our hardest part has been getting OK with OUR feelings. When we got more ok with how Ian is and that he could really care a less,,,,,,,,we got better as a family. Is there any group that your son can be a part of with kids like him? There isn't one around us,,,,,,but we joined a homeschooling group and amazingly, there are other kids with AS.....yipeeee!!!!!! Also,,,,,,,I totally get what you're saying about not having more kids. BUt, I gotta say,,,,,,

when there is no one else for our son,,,,he has his brother and sisters. That is AWESOME. They are always there making him play or talk or have him show them something on the computer or on a game,,,,go for a bike ride,,,,etc. If it weren't for his siblings,,,,he'd truly have no one sometimes. Have a super day. Robindebramelamed <melamedj@...> wrote: I don't think I can agree with that statement. I know we all have our quirks and weaknesses, but my child cannot connect with his peers.

How it must be to feel like an outsider amongst your peers I cannot imagine. That is why my heart breaks, that is why I personally would not have another child. I can't take the pain of seeing my son try to connect and get frustrated and anxious and then aggressive because he is hurt and angry that he can't be successful with connecting to other kids. He doesn't even know why he can't connect because he is 7 and he doesn't get it yet. There are no play dates, no friends, even my family members are telling us not to come around. It is so hard. Sorry if I am negative but I guess we all have our highs and lows and I am low right now.Debbie __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I don't think I would appreciate having our kids called "broken" either. They are not broken, they have a neurological developmental disorder. A doctor said this?

While some people do believe that thimerasol has caused autism in their kids, others do not. I don't believe that this caused autism in my kids.

RoxannaAutism Happens

( ) Larry King Live

What is everyone's take on the Larry King Live show with McCarthy and Halle Pete? I was pretty frustrated to hear the docter refer to our kids as "Broken Children" and the other comment was from about curing her son of Autism. Autism is a neurological disorder that is not tecnically "curable" but is treatable. I was also listening to them talk about how the MMR shot, and the immunitizations were the causes of autism. I went to the FDA website and the MMR has NEVER contained Thimersoal. Also all other immunitizations have phased out the thimersoal starting in 1999, and most of them are free of mercury or never had it. I wanted imput from everyone here, because I feel like you will all give me great imput on what you think. Thanks! Chelle

[Guest guest]

There is no proof at all that thimerasol causes autism nor is it a "common cause" of autism.

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Larry King Live

I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by that. It's just words. also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover. The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at a scary epidemic rate.)Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound. And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol still remained.Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot of toxins out there contributing to it all. Hope that helps!Donna wrote:

What is everyone's take on the Larry King Live show with McCarthy and Halle Pete? I was pretty frustrated to hear the docter refer to our kids as "Broken Children" and the other comment was from about curing her son of Autism. Autism is a neurological disorder that is not tecnically "curable" but is treatable. I was also listening to them talk about how the MMR shot, and the immunitizations were the causes of autism. I went to the FDA website and the MMR has NEVER contained Thimersoal. Also all other immunitizations have phased out the thimersoal starting in 1999, and most of them are free of mercury or never had it. I wanted imput from everyone here, because I feel like you will all give me great imput on what you think. Thanks! Chelle

[Guest guest]

I don't think coming up with new vaccines removes our rights as parents. I think we owe a lot to vaccines in helping cure/solve a lot of illnesses. I also don't think I have caved because I have had my kids given their immunizations. If a doctor makes anyone feel that way, maybe they should get a different doc. I know I would!

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live

Texas tried to make it mandatory, but it was changed -- not enough research and it was taking the choice out of the parents' hands.Every vaccine, new or not, removes a bit more of our rights -- the medical establishment is not perfect. (Think thalidomide.) I don't want my children ever being someone's guinea pigs or hurt because I caved when a doctor made me feel bad for doing what I think is right. They are my kids, so stand back lolRose wrote:

Deb,

<<<the new one for young girls>>>. are you speaking of the vaccine that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian cancer? I heard on the news that some states made it mandatory for girls to have this, and some schools are giving them out "in school". I don't know which states.debmetsfanaol wrote:

's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all?

Deb

In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I don't really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one. Thanks for the feedback. >> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and > many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say > my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by > that. It's just words.> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover.> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a > body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. > (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the > number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at > a scary epidemic rate.)> > Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense > that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but > because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet > used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol > still remained.> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot > of toxins out there contributing to it all.> > Hope that helps!> Donna>

Debbie SalernoMaine Coon RescueBoard MemberDNA ManagerEastern Regional DirectorVice Presidentwww.mainecoonrescue.net

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

How awful! I would have walked out too!

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live

Donna B

after watching them take about this on the news. I've told my kids that they are NOT to get any vaccines in the school.

stand your grounds is right!

When my kids were at the new doctors offices and it was time for them to get another vaccine. I had a "vaccine book/chart record" with me with the dates and type of vaccine and the Dr's signature next to each one. I told the nurse to look at this book first, due to us moving alot, I had my own records here. She said no! she only goes by her medical chart. I again explained we moved lots of times, changing doctors lots of times, that it was possible that she didn't have all information. She right out refused to look at my book with the vaccine records I had. she then said she has other patients to see, and gave my kids their vaccine shots. she left the room with my medical vaccine book to update and sign it. She came back about 20 minutes later with 2 doctors. She explained to me that according to her medical record book my son needed his last "MMR" vaccine. [yes, that one]!!! she said after reading my medical vaccine book he already had it and not to worry this is an extra one!!! I was so mad. (no one can undue this) the two doctors that was with her said: now he has more protection. I said he's autistics and DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING ABOUT THAT VACCINE!!! I should of walked out when that nurse wouldn't look at my personal vaccine book. If anyone decides to vaccinate their child. make sure you keep a record for yourself. especially if you move alot or switch doctors alot. they don't always have all information updated on their files..That is why I told my kids, no shots at school. Donna B <donnabzygmail> wrote:

Texas tried to make it mandatory, but it was changed -- not enough research and it was taking the choice out of the parents' hands.Every vaccine, new or not, removes a bit more of our rights -- the medical establishment is not perfect. (Think thalidomide.) I don't want my children ever being someone's guinea pigs or hurt because I caved when a doctor made me feel bad for doing what I think is right. They are my kids, so stand back lolRose wrote:

Deb,

<<<the new one for young girls>>>. are you speaking of the vaccine that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian cancer? I heard on the news that some states made it mandatory for girls to have this, and some schools are giving them out "in school". I don't know which states.debmetsfanaol wrote:

's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all?

Deb

In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:

I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that I don't really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen to the clip again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away from that issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the MMR is that I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for their kids being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do think that we need to have research on the issue of the viral load and overloading our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more likely cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to spread out the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much at one. Thanks for the feedback. >> I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these kids do have > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't work right for > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son have a ton of > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be explained, and > many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr. Kartzinel > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a hard time > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there. Honestly, > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My son has issues, > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which is the peeve I > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way about her son, but > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is misrepresentation, imo. I say > my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an autistic." My > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't be bothered by > that. It's just words.> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she recovered him. > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a bus, you'll never > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you can recover.> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of vaccine on a > body that is still growing and the mixture can be dangerous to a child > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are supposed to. > (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having vaccines. > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins increase, the > number of children who can't process the increased toxins is growing at > a scary epidemic rate.)> > Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites. It makes sense > that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless they are in > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol can still be > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out in 1999, but > because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that weren't yet > used stayed on the shelf for years later because they weren't yet > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with thimerasol > still remained.> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism, they are just one > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc., there's a lot > of toxins out there contributing to it all.> > Hope that helps!> Donna>

Debbie SalernoMaine Coon RescueBoard MemberDNA ManagerEastern Regional DirectorVice Presidentwww.mainecoonrescue.net

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Oh no, they actually do mention that it doesn't prevent all cervical cancers in the ads I've seen.

RoxannaAutism Happens

* [sPAM] Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live> Deb,> <<<the new one for young girls>>>. are you speaking of the vaccine> that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian cancer? I heard on> the news that some states made it mandatory for girls to have> this, and some schools are giving them out "in school". I don't> know which states.>> */debmetsfanaol/* wrote:>> 's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis vaccine> and the new one for young girls. Should I be concerned at all? > Deb> In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight> Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:>> I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just that> I don't> really see my son as broken, but different. I did listen> to the clip> again and she did say recovered, so I have to back away> from that> issue there. My only reason for saying anything about the> MMR is that> I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR for> their kids> being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I do> think that we> need to have research on the issue of the viral load and> overloading> our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far more> likely> cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need to> spread out> the immunitizations better so they are not getting so much> at one.> Thanks for the feedback.> >> > >> > I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that these> kids do> have> > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that don't> work right> for> > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my son> have a ton> of> > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't be> explained,> and> > many, many children on the spectrum face similar issues. Dr.> Kartzinel> > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd have a> hard time> > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness out there.> Honestly,> > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics. My> son has> issues,> > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic, which> is the> peeve I> > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that way> about her> son, but> > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is> misrepresentation, imo. I> say> > my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he is "an> autistic." My> > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I can't> be bothered> by> > that. It's just words.> >> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says she> recovered> him.> > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by a> bus, you'll> never> > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars, but you> can> recover.> >> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose of> vaccine on> a> > body that is still growing and the mixture can be> dangerous to a> child> > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies are> supposed to.> > (Which explains why not every child gets autism after having> vaccines.> > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins> increase, the> > number of children who can't process the increased toxins is> growing at> > a scary epidemic rate.)> >> > Be careful to just research the FDA and government sites.> It makes> sense> > that they aren't going to show the side-effects, unless> they are in> > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of thimerasol> can still> be> > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.> >> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be phased out> in 1999,> but> > because it preserves vaccines for years, those vaccines that> weren't yet> > used stayed on the shelf for years later because they> weren't yet> > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones with> thimerasol> > still remained.> >> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for autism,> they are> just one> > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications, etc.,> there's a> lot> > of toxins out there contributing to it all.> >> > Hope that helps!> > Donna> >>> Debbie Salerno> Maine Coon Rescue> Board Member> DNA Manager> Eastern Regional Director> Vice President> www.mainecoonrescue.net>>> ----------------------------------------------------------> See what's new at AOL.com> <http://www.aol.com/?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170> and Make AOL> Your Homepage> <http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169>.>> __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

All my kids except the first one got the chicken pox vaccine.

RoxannaAutism Happens

* [sPAM] Re: ( ) Re: Larry King Live>> Deb,>> <<<the new one for young girls>>>. are you speaking of the>> vaccine that's new, that's suppose to prevent ovarian>> cancer? I heard on the news that some states made it>> mandatory for girls to have this, and some schools are giving>> them out "in school". I don't know which states.>>>> */debmetsfanaol/* wrote:>>>> 's pediatrician wants to give her the meningitis>> vaccine and the new one for young girls. Should I be>> concerned at all? >> Deb>> In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:34:49 P.M. Eastern>> Daylight Time, mrathswohldaylemc (DOT) org writes:>>>> I guess part of my problem with Dr. Kartzinel is just>> that I don't>> really see my son as broken, but different. I did>> listen to the clip>> again and she did say recovered, so I have to back>> away from that>> issue there. My only reason for saying anything about>> the MMR is that>> I keep hearing people blame the mercury in the MMR>> for their kids>> being autistic, and the MMR does not contain any. I>> do think that we>> need to have research on the issue of the viral load>> and overloading>> our kids immune systems. That just seems to be a far>> more likely>> cause, and if that is the cause I belive that we need>> to spread out>> the immunitizations better so they are not getting so>> much at one.>> Thanks for the feedback.>> >>>> >> >>> > I agreed with Dr. Kartzinel -- my thoughts are that>> these kids do>> have>> > some broken mechanisms in their body, things that>> don't work right>> for>> > one way or another. But, it may be because I see my>> son have a ton>> of>> > intestinal issues, rashes, aches, etc., that can't>> be explained,>> and>> > many, many children on the spectrum face similar>> issues. Dr.>> Kartzinel>> > is an amazing man, very much on our side, so I'd>> have a hard time>> > feeling bad about the fact he's getting awareness>> out there.>> Honestly,>> > personally? I don't get caught up in the semantics.>> My son has>> issues,>> > and I don't care if he's referred to as autistic,>> which is the>> peeve I>> > have with Holly -Peete; she can feel that>> way about her>> son, but>> > to say that it's the wrong vernacular is>> misrepresentation, imo. I>> say>> > my son 'is autistic' sometimes, but I don't say he>> is "an>> autistic." My>> > daughter is epileptic, it's true, it's factual, I>> can't be bothered>> by>> > that. It's just words.>> >>> > also never says she 'cured' her son. She says>> she recovered>> him.>> > You probably heard her bus analogy -- you get hit by>> a bus, you'll>> never>> > be cured, you'll always have aches, pains, scars,>> but you can>> recover.>> >>> > The thing with the MMR shot is that it's a huge dose>> of vaccine on>> a>> > body that is still growing and the mixture can be>> dangerous to a>> child>> > who cannot process the viral/toxic loads as bodies>> are supposed to.>> > (Which explains why not every child gets autism>> after having>> vaccines.>> > Most children can process the loads fine, but toxins>> increase, the>> > number of children who can't process the increased>> toxins is>> growing at>> > a scary epidemic rate.)>> >>> > Be careful to just research the FDA and government>> sites. It makes>> sense>> > that they aren't going to show the side-effects,>> unless they are in>> > small print and hard to find. And a 'trace' of>> thimerasol can still>> be>> > WAY more than a tiny body can process per pound.>> >>> > And last -- Thimerasol was 'recommended' to be>> phased out in 1999,>> but>> > because it preserves vaccines for years, those>> vaccines that>> weren't yet>> > used stayed on the shelf for years later because>> they weren't yet>> > expired, so while new ones weren't made, those ones>> with thimerasol>> > still remained.>> >>> > Thimerasol/vaccines aren't the sole reason for>> autism, they are>> just one>> > of the most common ones -- pesticides, medications,>> etc., there's a>> lot>> > of toxins out there contributing to it all.>> >>> > Hope that helps!>> > Donna>> >>>>> Debbie Salerno>> Maine Coon Rescue>> Board Member>> DNA Manager>> Eastern Regional Director>> Vice President>> www.mainecoonrescue.net>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------->> See what's new at AOL.com>> <http://www.aol.com/?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170> and Make>> AOL Your Homepage>> <http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169>.>>>> __________________________________________________>>