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---------- Forwarded message ----------From: Rahul Rawat <rahurawat@...>Date: Aug 23, 2007 2:50 PM

Subject: mathshallu nagpal <smilenagpal@...>

Beauty of Math!>> 1 x 8 + 1 = 9> 12 x 8 + 2 = 98> 123 x 8 + 3 = 987 > 1234 x 8 + 4 = 9876> 12345 x 8 + 5 = 98765 > 123456 x 8 + 6 = 987654 > 1234567 x 8 + 7 = 9876543> 12345678 x 8 + 8 = 98765432> 123456789 x 8 + 9 = 987654321>> 1 x 9 + 2 = 11> 12 x 9 + 3 = 111> 123 x 9 + 4 = 1111 > 1234 x 9 + 5 = 11111 > 12345 x 9 + 6 = 111111> 123456 x 9 + 7 = 1111111> 1234567 x 9 + 8 = 11111111> 12345678 x 9 + 9 = 111111111 > 123456789 x 9 +10= 1111111111> > 9 x 9 + 7 = 88

> 98 x 9 + 6 = 888> 987 x 9 + 5 = 8888> 9876 x 9 + 4 = 88888> 98765 x 9 + 3 = 888888> 987654 x 9 + 2 = 8888888 > 9876543 x 9 + 1 = 88888888> 98765432 x 9 + 0 = 888888888 >> Brilliant, isn't it?>> And look at this symmetry:>> 1 x 1 = 1> 11 x 11 = 121> 111 x 111 = 12321 > 1111 x 1111 = 1234321> 11111 x 11111 = 123454321 > 111111 x 111111 = 12345654321> 1111111 x 1111111 = 1234567654321> 11111111 x 11111111 = 123456787654321> 111111111 x 111111111=123456789 87654321 >>>> Now, take a look at this... >>>>>> 101%>>>> From a strictly mathematical viewpoint:>>>> >> What Equals 100%? What does it mean to give MORE than 100%? >> Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100%? >> We have all been in situations where someone wants you to GIVE OVER > 100%.>> How about ACHIEVING 101%? >>>>>> What equals 100% in life? >>>>>> Here's a little mathematical formula that might help answer these > questions:

>>>>>> If:>> A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z >>>> Is represented as:>> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26. >>>>>> If:>>>> H-A-R-D-W-O- R- K>> 8+1+18+4+23+ 15+18+11 = 98%>>>> And:>> K-N-O-W-L-E- D-G-E >> 11+14+15+23+ 12+5+4+7+ 5 = 96%>>>>>> But:>> A-T-T-I-T-U- D-E>> 1+20+20+9+20+ 21+4+5 = 100% >>>> THEN, look how far the love of God will take you: >>>> L-O-V-E-O-F- G-O-D>> 12+15+22+5+15+ 6+7+15+4 = 101%>>>> Therefore, one can conclude with mathematical certainty that: >> While Hard Work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will > get you there, It's the Love of God that will put you over the top!>> It's up to you if you share this with your friends & loved ones just> the way I did.>>

>> Have a nice day & God bless!!!

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Subject: Beauty of Math! Beauty of Math! 1 x 8 + 1 = 9 12 x 8 + 2 = 98 123 x 8 + 3 = 987 1234 x 8 + 4 = 9876 12345 x 8 + 5 = 98765 123456 x 8 + 6 = 987654 1234567 x 8 + 7 = 9876543 12345678 x 8 + 8 = 98765432 123456789 x 8 + 9 = 987654321 1 x 9 + 2 = 11 12 x 9 + 3 = 111 123 x 9 + 4 = 1111 1234 x 9 + 5 = 11111 12345 x 9 + 6 = 111111 123456 x 9 + 7 = 1111111 1234567 x 9 + 8 = 11111111 12345678 x 9 + 9 = 111111111 123456789 x 9 +10= 1111111111 9 x 9 + 7 = 88 98 x 9 + 6 = 888 987 x 9 + 5 = 8888 9876 x 9 + 4 = 88888 98765 x 9 + 3 = 888888 987654 x 9 + 2

= 8888888 9876543 x 9 + 1 = 88888888 98765432 x 9 + 0 = 888888888 Brilliant, isn't it? And look at this symmetry: 1 x 1 = 1 11 x 11 = 121 111 x 111 = 12321 1111 x 1111 = 1234321 11111 x 11111 = 123454321 111111 x 111111 = 12345654321 1111111 x 1111111 = 1234567654321 11111111 x 11111111 = 123456787654321 111111111 x 111111111=12345678987654321 Now, take a look at this... 101% From a strictly mathematical viewpoint: What Equals 100%? What does it mean to give MORE than 100%? Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100%? We have all been in situations where someone wants you to

GIVE OVER 100%. How about ACHIEVING 101%? What equals 100% in life? Here's a little mathematical formula that might help answer these questions: If: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z Is represented as: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26. If: H-A-R-D-W-O-R- K 8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98% And: K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E 11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+5 = 96% But: A-T-T-I-T-U-D-E 1+20+20+9+20+21+4+5 = 100% THEN, look how far the love of God will take you:

L-O-V-E-O-F-G-O-D 12+15+22+5+15+6+7+15+4 = 101% Therefore, one can conclude with mathematical certainty that: While Hard Work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will get you there, It's the Love of God that will put you over the top!It's up to you if you share this with your friends & loved ones just the way I did. Have a nice day & God bless!!! Tim Parsons knoxville,tn 37931 x107 work www.knoxville1.com

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  • 4 weeks later...

I would say that you need to learn the various types of math problems and

categorize what they are looking for and how they are worded. Then you can

recognize the type of problem and know the type of set up or formula or ?? to

use. But I have found that 9 times out of ten I will use a ratio/proportion

method in math problem.

IF you use my tutorials you will probably recognize the way they are worded for

each type of problem and then learn to solve when it is worded a specific way.

Some times it helps to work back wards in a problem.

Here is one example where ratio / proportion is not necessary.

Also if they are looking for the specific number of tablets or capsules that a

person should have per dose or to be totally dispensed you can say

# of meds per dose, x # doses/day (frequency) x # of days this repeats(duration)

=- total number of meds

1 tab qid x 7 days

1 x 4 x 7 = 28 tabs to be total fill

4 tabs for daily dose

Hope this helps. I am sure you will have other input from members and

instructors.

Jeanetta

blossoms2u@... wrote: Is there a trick or rule

to look for on the wording of word math problems to

figure out what they want you to do?

Louise

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  • 3 weeks later...

My son has been learning math with a number line . The line is up to 30

right now and has red and green dots in that order . for addition and

subtraction . you find the top number (say 10 ) then for subtraction you go

to the

left ( red dots ) the amount you are subtracting - Addition is the same but

only to the right ( green dots) . He is doing great with this system so far.

He is 9

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http://www.mathusee.com/

a Chrisitan based math program (with only the songs based on the Christian

faith, so it is transferrable to school).

We started using MUS about 9 months ago, and saw HUGE jumps in math ability

almost immediately. It is an AWESOME program. Its mainstays are:

when you teach a child to count to 10, ALWAYS start with zero

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 is awesome, but wheres the zero?

now the MUS way:

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

there can only be NINE units of measure in the ones place, because once you go

to 10, they move to the tens place. The 0 is vital to understanding math. It is

overlooked in almost every teaching tool made for children, almost an assumption

that it doesnt matter. In this program, the curriculum is based on a street

called Decimal Street. There are houses on decimal st, the units (ones) house,

the tens house, the hundreds, you get the picture. The units house is farthest

down the road, to the right of all the others. It is a blue house, and all the

little unit measure blocks that come with the program are blue, too. Only 9

people can fit in the units house, then it is too small, and they have to move

to the tens house. In this curriculum, the tens house and family are called

" TYs " .(Prounounced TEA) If 6 people live there together, there are 6 TYs. " Six

tea " people live there. six tea=60. 7 ty people =70. It gets to be an easily

held concept, although admittedly some TY people need to be said quickly...for

instance 3 ty=30 if you say it fast, but you just teach it as TY and kids get it

soon enough. There is SO much more to the program, but I am SO glad we bought

it.

math

Citrus Punch

Anybody have any fantastic ideas to teach math? Sydnie, 7, is doing pretty

good manipulating her fingers to do addition ...u know 2 on one hand plus 2 on

the other hand and counting them....but it isnt always easy.....

just curious if anyone has found a wonderful teaching tool.

We're still working oh phonics and blends...she is still working on sight

words and may be the way she really learns to read.....she knows her sounds but

just arent blending them together.

She tries to work hard, bless her heart...just want to help her along.

May God Bless You As He Has Us

~Angie~

~~DREAM BIG~~

An extra little chromosome,

that's all it is, you see.

Where all of you were born with two,

I was blessed with three.

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  • 5 months later...
Guest guest

has been very successful with the entire TouchMath program,

including TouchMoney. She's amazingly fast at it, and can do multiple

digit addition and subtraction with regrouping using this method. We

are moving on to the multiplication now, and I'm hopeful it will work as

well. This does not help her with typical 4th grade math however...

fractions, decimals, geometry, etc., so we modify her math for areas

that are way too abstract. We also use a multiplication chart to help

with multiplication... she has one in her desk and in her binder, and

she knows how to quickly find the answers.

Not sure if that's the type of information you wanted.

, mom to (12), (10 DS), and Sammy (8)

RSYOSH@... wrote:

> I'm looking for materials supporting using accomodations (calculators,

> etc) and techniques for using students with DS the techniques to use

> them successfully to stay in regular inclusion settings and NOT

> focussing on Kindergarten/ First grade calculation skills

>

> - Becky

>

> Digest Number 4101

>

> Family Centered List for Families Involved with Down Syndrome

>

> Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)

>

> 1a.

>

> Happy Easter From: Gwhiz@... <mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com>

>

> 1b.

>

> Re: Happy Easter From: Loree5@... <mailto:Loree5%40aol.com>

>

> View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages

>

> 1a.

>

> Happy Easter

>

> Posted by: " Gwhiz@... <mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com> " Gwhiz@...

> <mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com> ? gwhiz715

>

> Sun Mar?23,?2008 10:21?am (PDT)

>

> Just a quick note to wish you all a very happy & blessed Easter. I've

> missed

> you all SO very much.

> I'm still here....lurking when I can.

> My daughter is still keeping up (although not as often) my

> carepage

> as she is able, if anyone was wondering.

> We have sunshine today, it's amazing, beautiful & fitting for our Easter

> Sunday.

>

> Hugs,

> Sandy O

> (mom to Kali, 20yo w/DS & celiac disease)

>

> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL

> Home.

>

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001

>

<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001>)

>

>

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I was recently loaned the TouchMath materials - but that's not what I'm

looking for

I'm looking for the support that children with intellectual impairments are

beneffitted by focussing on using calculation devices to proceed in Math,

rather than focusing on poor calculation.

I've gotten anectdotal stories from several people of their children

proceeding into High School math and even successfully graduation on a diploma,

by

being trained to use calculators for the calculation part, so that more

attention can be spent on the concepts they need to pass HS math

- Becky

**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL

Home.

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001)

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Guest guest

That's what I'm referring to - for example - when you get to learning area,

perimeter, etc - focus on learning to set up the problem and then use the

calculator.

Regular education testing allows the use of calculators starting about grade

3. You can use it as an accomodation any time. Multiplication charts can

only take you so far - it's not going to help when you get to multiple digits

(i.e. four digits times three digits) and decimals.

Also - take a look at Coinulators - cool little calculators for manipulating

money concepts.

- Becky

In a message dated 3/25/2008 6:14:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

cindymattern@... writes:

I forgot to mention when I talked about the touch math that it is great but

only for the basic math like mentioned. It goes all the way through

addition, subtraction and multiplication. Not sure about division but it has

worked great with Ben. He still struggles with subtraction though and hasn't

gotten to multiplication yet.

I also forgot about the touch money, it uses the concept of counting by

fives. It's a great program and most kids catch on rather quickly.

**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL

Home.

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001)

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Guest guest

I forgot to mention when I talked about the touch math that it is great but only

for the basic math like mentioned. It goes all the way through addition,

subtraction and multiplication. Not sure about division but it has worked great

with Ben. He still struggles with subtraction though and hasn't gotten to

multiplication yet.

I also forgot about the touch money, it uses the concept of counting by fives.

It's a great program and most kids catch on rather quickly.

Mattern

Digest Number 4101

>

> Family Centered List for Families Involved with Down Syndrome

>

> Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)

>

> 1a.

>

> Happy Easter From: Gwhiz@...<mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com>

<mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com>

>

> 1b.

>

> Re: Happy Easter From: Loree5@...<mailto:Loree5%40aol.com>

<mailto:Loree5%40aol.com>

>

> View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages

>

> 1a.

>

> Happy Easter

>

> Posted by: " Gwhiz@...<mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com> <mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com> "

Gwhiz@...<mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com>

> <mailto:Gwhiz%40aol.com> ? gwhiz715

>

> Sun Mar?23,?2008 10:21?am (PDT)

>

> Just a quick note to wish you all a very happy & blessed Easter. I've

> missed

> you all SO very much.

> I'm still here....lurking when I can.

> My daughter is still keeping up (although not as often) my

> carepage

> as she is able, if anyone was wondering.

> We have sunshine today, it's amazing, beautiful & fitting for our Easter

> Sunday.

>

> Hugs,

> Sandy O

> (mom to Kali, 20yo w/DS & celiac disease)

>

> **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL

> Home.

>

(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=ao\

lhom00030000000001>

>

<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030\

000000001<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=ao\

lhom00030000000001>>)

>

>

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  • 4 months later...
Guest guest

For your little guy, make the math you do relevant to his life.

Do we have the same number of cookies?

Do you have more blocks than I do?

If I give you one more toy car, how many toy cars will you have?

In a message dated 8/4/2008 12:45:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, madideas@... writes:

These are all good ideas. I wondered if anyone has dealt with someone who just cannot grasp basic math at all - I don't mean someone who is slow or needs to learn it or even has trouble learning it. But someone who is educated but just cannot grasp the whole math concept of numbers?

My kids all seemed to "get" numbers without being taught. I work with a little guy who has no math concept whatsoever so that even counting is something he does not understand. But I also have a friend with an 18 yo AS boy who is very much the same way - he has no math concept. He still cannot use money or understand change back - all the basic number issues that one needs to be independent. I wondered is anyone has dealt with that kind of math block and if there are any ideas for working with in that? For the little guy I work with, we just work hard at reinforcing simple number concepts and he's still young - I still do not know if he will click into gear at some point on this stuff. But for my friend, her ds is older and this is obviously going to be a major problem in life for him. They've done everything - games, tutoring, different curriculum, etc. It's not going to sink in.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired

> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

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Yes! there is a name for math disability too--Dyscalculia--inablity

to memorize numerical facts such as addition, subtraction,

multiplication tables. We spent over $2,000 one summer on tutoring in

multiplication tables. By August he knew them due to daily

repetition, by the end of Sept. he'd forgotten most of them! My son

is EXACTLY like what you described.

He also has no " internal numberline. " I think most people sort of

have this " numberline " where your nose is zero, to the right are

postive numbers and left are negative numbers? Unhuh. It is all a

jumble for him. He is also spatially challenged and in knowing where

body is in space: running into walls and other people...all related.

But dyscalculia is just as real as dygraphic and dyslexia.

A couple of suggestions that have worked a little with son are using

kinesthetic (spelling?) with learning. i.e. his math tutor had a

differen physical action, like slapping her leg or slapping her

forehead that went with each times table. Or tossing a bean bag back

and forth as he repeated the tables. Some of the music that teaches

the basics that way helped just a little.

Anything that is hands on for him helps, actual " pieces " that make up

a pie for fractions. But in all honesty, even though he reads at

grade level 12, his math skills are and have remained at about 3rd

grade level and we have tried and tried. It is most difficult and

impeding his progress at JobCorps. He's ready to finish the reading

part and has points to graduate...but the math section remains

behind. Even though he can use a calculator...he doesn't understand

what function to do. Oh, and the biggest help for him are

using " touch points " for addition and subtraction.

Sue

>

> These are all good ideas. I wondered if anyone has dealt with

someone who just cannot grasp basic math at all - I don't mean

someone who is slow or needs to learn it or even has trouble learning

it. But someone who is educated but just cannot grasp the whole math

concept of numbers?

>

> My kids all seemed to " get " numbers without being taught. I work

with a little guy who has no math concept whatsoever so that even

counting is something he does not understand. But I also have a

friend with an 18 yo AS boy who is very much the same way - he has no

math concept. He still cannot use money or understand change back -

all the basic number issues that one needs to be independent. I

wondered is anyone has dealt with that kind of math block and if

there are any ideas for working with in that? For the little guy I

work with, we just work hard at reinforcing simple number concepts

and he's still young - I still do not know if he will click into gear

at some point on this stuff. But for my friend, her ds is older and

this is obviously going to be a major problem in life for him.

They've done everything - games, tutoring, different curriculum,

etc. It's not going to sink in.

>

> Roxanna

> You're Unique

> Just like everyone else...

> Re: ( ) my

son's aide got fired

>

>

> > trying to

> > 'escape' by crying or having a

tantrum.

>

> I have such a hard time understanding

this. I don't mean this

> personally to Elaine, but just in

general, because it's bothered me

> for years. Doesn't it indicate a real

need either for an escape in

> some way, or some other level of

desperation, at that point?

>

> I've been hanging around my son and

daughter's autistic peers for 8

> years now, hearing this same type of

explanation while the behaviors

> never change year to year, and I

don't understand how kids who are

> struggling so much with day to day

stuff on so many levels,

> simultaneously have the social

giftedness to be able to manipulate

> and control whole roomfuls of people.

I hear this type of

> explanation from a lot of the parents

and educators at both my kids'

> schools (self contained and a magnet

program) and it never makes

> sense to me - " they just want

(attention, to get out of doing their

> work, etc.) " - ??? Why do they " need "

to get to the point of

> throwing a tantrum to get those

things, if that's really what they

> need or want?

>

> When I see the kids in my son's class

getting close to meltdowns, it

> seems like it's because they've been

pushed to the breaking point by

> something that nobody seemed to

notice until almost too late -

> another child's noises, work that's

too frustrating or tedious,

> needing a sensory break, bad

headaches or stomachaches after lunch

> (most of the kids are not

biomedically treated), no sleep the night

> before - I mean it's not acceptable

to throw yourself on the ground,

> especially in middle and upper

grades, and I don't allow tantrums at

> all here, but when my kids used to

have them I always thought it was

> a clue to what *I* had done wrong,

and figured it out that way. Why

> don't the teachers see it like, wow

we better change things around so

> that kid isn't getting to the point

of being out of control here,

> rather than " oh you know that kid, he

just wants ___ " ? There's one

> aide at my son's school who, the

minute kids start to show some

> distress, like they're getting to a

point where they need a break,

> starts yelling at them and getting

rough with them. This always ends

> up with the kid throwing a tantrum

(except my son), and then she gets

> sarcastic and says that the child

just wanted to get out of finishing

> their work, and then makes them sit

and finish it. My daughter has

> seen this a few times and she's

like, " mom, doesnt she know (child's

> name) has autism? "

>

> Am I being naive? Are other people's

kids crafty manipulators and I

> just think too well of children? That

might be true, I tend to give

> children the benefit of the doubt,

but maybe there really are some

> just plain lazy kids out there whose

goal when they come to school is

> work avoidance? Do you think behavior

techniques have a place when a

> child gets to this point of

frustration? It just seems so cold and

> abandoning to me to use those methods

with a child in so much

> distress.

>

> Amy

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG -

http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 -

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I heard Abeels speak at my son’s

school this past year.  She suffers from this and wasn’t diagnosed until

7th grade.  She has written a book, “My Thirteenth Winter”

about her disability which the students at Tyler’s school read.  She is very inspiring. 

She has a college education; I believe she has a master’s.  I can’t

remember what her degree is in or what her main job is but she can’t even

tell time.  She does travel a lot for speaking engagements – I think her

mom travels with her most of the time though she does live on her own.  She was

finally diagnosed after she started having panic attacks from the stress of

trying to hide her disability. 

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of carolynsuelowerychattanooga

Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008

12:59 PM

To:

Subject: ( ) Re:

Math

Yes! there is a name for math disability

too--Dyscalculia--inablity

to memorize numerical facts such as addition, subtraction,

multiplication tables. We spent over $2,000 one summer on tutoring in

multiplication tables. By August he knew them due to daily

repetition, by the end of Sept. he'd forgotten most of them! My son

is EXACTLY like what you described.

He also has no " internal numberline. " I think most people sort of

have this " numberline " where your nose is zero, to the right are

postive numbers and left are negative numbers? Unhuh. It is all a

jumble for him. He is also spatially challenged and in knowing where

body is in space: running into walls and other people...all related.

But dyscalculia is just as real as dygraphic and dyslexia.

A couple of suggestions that have worked a little with son are using

kinesthetic (spelling?) with learning. i.e. his math tutor had a

differen physical action, like slapping her leg or slapping her

forehead that went with each times table. Or tossing a bean bag back

and forth as he repeated the tables. Some of the music that teaches

the basics that way helped just a little.

Anything that is hands on for him helps, actual " pieces " that make up

a pie for fractions. But in all honesty, even though he reads at

grade level 12, his math skills are and have remained at about 3rd

grade level and we have tried and tried. It is most difficult and

impeding his progress at JobCorps. He's ready to finish the reading

part and has points to graduate...but the math section remains

behind. Even though he can use a calculator...he doesn't understand

what function to do. Oh, and the biggest help for him are

using " touch points " for addition and subtraction.

Sue

>

> These are all good ideas. I wondered if anyone has dealt with

someone who just cannot grasp basic math at all - I don't mean

someone who is slow or needs to learn it or even has trouble learning

it. But someone who is educated but just cannot grasp the whole math

concept of numbers?

>

> My kids all seemed to " get " numbers without being taught. I work

with a little guy who has no math concept whatsoever so that even

counting is something he does not understand. But I also have a

friend with an 18 yo AS boy who is very much the same way - he has no

math concept. He still cannot use money or understand change back -

all the basic number issues that one needs to be independent. I

wondered is anyone has dealt with that kind of math block and if

there are any ideas for working with in that? For the little guy I

work with, we just work hard at reinforcing simple number concepts

and he's still young - I still do not know if he will click into gear

at some point on this stuff. But for my friend, her ds is older and

this is obviously going to be a major problem in life for him.

They've done everything - games, tutoring, different curriculum,

etc. It's not going to sink in.

>

> Roxanna

> You're Unique

> Just like everyone else...

> Re: ( ) my

son's aide got fired

>

>

> > trying to

> > 'escape' by crying or having a

tantrum.

>

> I have such a hard time understanding

this. I don't mean this

> personally to Elaine, but just in

general, because it's bothered me

> for years. Doesn't it indicate a real

need either for an escape in

> some way, or some other level of

desperation, at that point?

>

> I've been hanging around my son and

daughter's autistic peers for 8

> years now, hearing this same type of

explanation while the behaviors

> never change year to year, and I

don't understand how kids who are

> struggling so much with day to day

stuff on so many levels,

> simultaneously have the social

giftedness to be able to manipulate

> and control whole roomfuls of people.

I hear this type of

> explanation from a lot of the parents

and educators at both my kids'

> schools (self contained and a magnet

program) and it never makes

> sense to me - " they just want

(attention, to get out of doing their

> work, etc.) " - ??? Why do they " need "

to get to the point of

> throwing a tantrum to get those

things, if that's really what they

> need or want?

>

> When I see the kids in my son's class

getting close to meltdowns, it

> seems like it's because they've been

pushed to the breaking point by

> something that nobody seemed to

notice until almost too late -

> another child's noises, work that's

too frustrating or tedious,

> needing a sensory break, bad

headaches or stomachaches after lunch

> (most of the kids are not

biomedically treated), no sleep the night

> before - I mean it's not acceptable

to throw yourself on the ground,

> especially in middle and upper

grades, and I don't allow tantrums at

> all here, but when my kids used to

have them I always thought it was

> a clue to what *I* had done wrong,

and figured it out that way. Why

> don't the teachers see it like, wow

we better change things around so

> that kid isn't getting to the point

of being out of control here,

> rather than " oh you know that kid, he

just wants ___ " ? There's one

> aide at my son's school who, the

minute kids start to show some

> distress, like they're getting to a

point where they need a break,

> starts yelling at them and getting

rough with them. This always ends

> up with the kid throwing a tantrum

(except my son), and then she gets

> sarcastic and says that the child

just wanted to get out of finishing

> their work, and then makes them sit

and finish it. My daughter has

> seen this a few times and she's

like, " mom, doesnt she know (child's

> name) has autism? "

>

> Am I being naive? Are other people's

kids crafty manipulators and I

> just think too well of children? That

might be true, I tend to give

> children the benefit of the doubt,

but maybe there really are some

> just plain lazy kids out there whose

goal when they come to school is

> work avoidance? Do you think behavior

techniques have a place when a

> child gets to this point of

frustration? It just seems so cold and

> abandoning to me to use those methods

with a child in so much

> distress.

>

> Amy

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG -

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Database: 270.5.10/1585 -

Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------

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> Hitta din tvillingsjäl på

Dejting: http://se.meetic. .net

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com

> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date:

8/1/2008 6:59 PM

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

>

>

>

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8/4/2008 8:09 AM

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Guest guest

Roxanna, I have some other math tips that we used. DS was in a

private school for kids with LD for nine years. While he was there, I

compiled all of the parent and teacher tips for teaching math and

other skills to the kids that I could gather and then we published a

book for the school, " Recipes for Success. " These were ideas for the

kids that don't just 'get it' after one attempt, but need multiple

sensory ways to try and teach them.

I'll be glad to send you some of the other specific math ideas and

would love input from others whose child, especially older, struggles

with math...the whole concept.

One thing our son liked alot was learning to play Solitairefor him it

was a great way to recognize groups of numbers, and learn less and

more.

Sue in TN

" Do you think behavior

techniques have a place when a

> child gets to this point of

frustration? It just seems so cold and

> abandoning to me to use those methods

with a child in so much

> distress. "

>

> I think that is the very place for

behavior techniques - when a child has gotten to the point of

frustration and frankly, before you get to that point. I don't think

of behavior techniques to mean punishment. Is that what you mean

when you say that? I'm not sure what techniques you might be

referring to. When I say " behavior techniques " I am thinking of

someone who has thought about the behavior, what the child is saying

by the behavior, and has made a plan of ways to dealing with the

behavior appropriately.

>

> Roxanna

> You're Unique

> Just like everyone else...

> Re: ( ) my

son's aide got fired

>

>

> > trying to

> > 'escape' by crying or having a

tantrum.

>

> I have such a hard time understanding

this. I don't mean this

> personally to Elaine, but just in

general, because it's bothered me

> for years. Doesn't it indicate a real

need either for an escape in

> some way, or some other level of

desperation, at that point?

>

> I've been hanging around my son and

daughter's autistic peers for 8

> years now, hearing this same type of

explanation while the behaviors

> never change year to year, and I

don't understand how kids who are

> struggling so much with day to day

stuff on so many levels,

> simultaneously have the social

giftedness to be able to manipulate

> and control whole roomfuls of people.

I hear this type of

> explanation from a lot of the parents

and educators at both my kids'

> schools (self contained and a magnet

program) and it never makes

> sense to me - " they just want

(attention, to get out of doing their

> work, etc.) " - ??? Why do they " need "

to get to the point of

> throwing a tantrum to get those

things, if that's really what they

> need or want?

>

> When I see the kids in my son's class

getting close to meltdowns, it

> seems like it's because they've been

pushed to the breaking point by

> something that nobody seemed to

notice until almost too late -

> another child's noises, work that's

too frustrating or tedious,

> needing a sensory break, bad

headaches or stomachaches after lunch

> (most of the kids are not

biomedically treated), no sleep the night

> before - I mean it's not acceptable

to throw yourself on the ground,

> especially in middle and upper

grades, and I don't allow tantrums at

> all here, but when my kids used to

have them I always thought it was

> a clue to what *I* had done wrong,

and figured it out that way. Why

> don't the teachers see it like, wow

we better change things around so

> that kid isn't getting to the point

of being out of control here,

> rather than " oh you know that kid, he

just wants ___ " ? There's one

> aide at my son's school who, the

minute kids start to show some

> distress, like they're getting to a

point where they need a break,

> starts yelling at them and getting

rough with them. This always ends

> up with the kid throwing a tantrum

(except my son), and then she gets

> sarcastic and says that the child

just wanted to get out of finishing

> their work, and then makes them sit

and finish it. My daughter has

> seen this a few times and she's

like, " mom, doesnt she know (child's

> name) has autism? "

>

> Am I being naive? Are other people's

kids crafty manipulators and I

> just think too well of children? That

might be true, I tend to give

> children the benefit of the doubt,

but maybe there really are some

> just plain lazy kids out there whose

goal when they come to school is

> work avoidance? Do you think behavior

techniques have a place when a

> child gets to this point of

frustration? It just seems so cold and

> abandoning to me to use those methods

with a child in so much

> distress.

>

> Amy

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG -

http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 -

Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------

> Sök efter kärleken!

> Hitta din tvillingsjäl på

Dejting: http://se.meetic. .net

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com

> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date:

8/1/2008 6:59 PM

>

>

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits

in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your

budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?

Read reviews on AOL Autos.

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date:

8/4/2008 8:09 AM

>

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My son grasps the concepts but needs help with the basics...especially division....he knows his times tables pretty well....I think the school just flys over everything...spending 6 weeks on one thing and going on the the next. I am going to have the tutor go over the basics again. I do know my son is definitely a hands-on learner and that he seems to need to be doing something...when he is jumping around the room and I ask him to reduce fractions he can do it ...no problem...but sitting him down with a whole sheet of math problems...watch out...he gets over whelmed and fustrated. So, sometimes we break it down to 1/2 page or 4 problems and then take a break.

Fractions have been a tough one especially when it comes to different denominations. There are so many steps...he just gives up.

I think your thoughts and suggestions are great. Thanks.

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

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Student, Believer, and Giver.

"Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a > child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and > abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much > distress. "> > I think that is the very place for behavior techniques - when a child has gotten to the point of frustration and frankly, before you get to that point. I don't think of behavior techniques to mean punishment. Is that what you mean when you say that? I'm not sure what techniques you might be referring to. When I say "behavior techniques" I am thinking of someone who has thought about the behavior, what the child is

saying by the behavior, and has made a plan of ways to dealing with the behavior appropriately. > > Roxanna> You're Unique> Just like everyone else...> Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired> > > > trying to > > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. > > I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this > personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me > for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in > some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? > > I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 > years now, hearing this same type of

explanation while the behaviors > never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are > struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, > simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate > and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of > explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' > schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes > sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their > work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of > throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they > need or want?> > When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it > seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by > something that nobody seemed

to notice until almost too late - > another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, > needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch > (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night > before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, > especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at > all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was > a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why > don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so > that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, > rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one > aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some > distress, like they're getting to a

point where they need a break, > starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends > up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets > sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing > their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has > seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's > name) has autism?" > > Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I > just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give > children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some > just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is > work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a > child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold

and > abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much > distress. > > Amy> > > No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 -Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------> Sök efter kärleken! > Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Dejting: http://se.meetic. .net > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:59 PM> > > > > > ------------ ---------

--------- --------- --------- --------- -> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 8/4/2008 8:09

AM>

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I would be interested in any tips for math!!! I am willing to try anything....

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: carolynsuelowerychattanooga <sue@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Math Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:15 PM

Roxanna, I have some other math tips that we used. DS was in a private school for kids with LD for nine years. While he was there, I compiled all of the parent and teacher tips for teaching math and other skills to the kids that I could gather and then we published a book for the school, "Recipes for Success." These were ideas for the kids that don't just 'get it' after one attempt, but need multiple sensory ways to try and teach them.I'll be glad to send you some of the other specific math ideas and would love input from others whose child, especially older, struggles with math...the whole concept.One thing our son liked alot was learning to play Solitairefor him it was a great way to recognize groups of numbers, and learn less and more. Sue in TN "Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a > child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and > abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much > distress. "> > I think that is the very place for behavior techniques - when a child has gotten to the point of frustration and frankly, before you get to that point. I don't think of behavior techniques to mean punishment. Is that what you mean when you say that? I'm not sure what

techniques you might be referring to. When I say "behavior techniques" I am thinking of someone who has thought about the behavior, what the child is saying by the behavior, and has made a plan of ways to dealing with the behavior appropriately. > > Roxanna> You're Unique> Just like everyone else...> Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired> > > > trying to > > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. > > I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this > personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me > for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in > some way, or some other level of

desperation, at that point? > > I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 > years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors > never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are > struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, > simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate > and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of > explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' > schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes > sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their > work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of > throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they > need or want?> > When I see the kids in

my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it > seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by > something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - > another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, > needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch > (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night > before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, > especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at > all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was > a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why > don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so > that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, > rather than "oh you

know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one > aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some > distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, > starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends > up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets > sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing > their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has > seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's > name) has autism?" > > Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I > just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give > children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some > just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come

to school is > work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a > child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and > abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much > distress. > > Amy> > > No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 -Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------> Sök efter kärleken! > Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Dejting: http://se.meetic. .net > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com

> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:59 PM> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 8/4/2008 8:09 AM>

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How interesting. I never looked into dyscalcula much but I will give this title to my friend. thanks!

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired> > > > trying to > > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. > > I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this > personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me > for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in > some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? > > I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 > years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors > never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are > struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, > simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate > and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of > explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' > schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes > sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their > work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of > throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they > need or want?> > When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it > seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by > something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - > another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, > needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch > (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night > before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, > especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at > all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was > a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why > don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so > that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, > rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one > aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some > distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, > starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends > up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets > sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing > their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has > seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's > name) has autism?" > > Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I > just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give > children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some > just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is > work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a > child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and > abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much > distress. > > Amy> > > No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 -Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM> > > ------------------------------------------------------> Sök efter kärleken! > Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Dejting: http://se.meetic. .net > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:59 PM> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 8/4/2008 8:09 AM>

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I would love to see your book, please do send it!

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired> > > > trying to > > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. > > I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this > personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me > for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in > some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? > > I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 > years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors > never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are > struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, > simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate > and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of > explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' > schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes > sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their > work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of > throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they > need or want?> > When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it > seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by > something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - > another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, > needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch > (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night > before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, > especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at > all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was > a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why > don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so > that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, > rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one > aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some > distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, > starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends > up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets > sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing > their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has > seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's > name) has autism?" > > Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I > just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give > children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some > just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is > work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a > child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and > abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much > distress. > > Amy> > > No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 -Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM> > > ------------------------------------------------------> Sök efter kärleken! > Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Dejting: http://se.meetic. .net > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:59 PM> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 8/4/2008 8:09 AM>No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 8/4/2008 8:09 AM

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The Basic Facts about Dyscalculia

Dyscalculia is a specific learning disability in mathematics.

Dyscalculia is a word you use to describe when people have

significant problems with numbers - but still have a normal or above

normal IQ. It seems that no dyscalculic has problems with math alone,

but also struggle with problems being able to learn to tell time,

left/right orientation, rules in games and much more. Also, there are

more types of dyscalculia, and all types demand specific learning

methods aimed at the specific problem.

" You Can If You Want To! "

Probably followed by " and if you try hard enough " . This is a typical

remark from teachers and parents to motivate the student - and

although it can be meant in the BEST way possible, it is not true

when it comes to dyscalculic students. The thing a dyscalculic wants

most in this world is to be able to understand those numbers.

Dyscalculics need different learning methods, in every aspect of the

assignment. Dyscalculics are able to learn how to calculate something

one day, only to discover that the information has been forgotten the

next day. In other words programs like Kumon, where repetition is a

major part of the teaching methods seem to have no result for

dyscalculic students - they forget. Through different learning

methods aimed specifically at the student and his/her version of

dyscalculia can have great results.

Dyscalculia involves a specific impairment in arithmetical skills

that is not solely explicable on the basis of general mental

retardation or of inadequate schooling. The deficit concerns mastery

of basic computational skills of addition, subtraction,

multiplication, and division rather than of the more abstract

mathematical skills involved in algebra, trigonometry, geometry, or

calculus.

---------------------------------------------------------

Oh if only we had known this when he was in school, would have been

most helpful. There a lots of forums, info pages etc. now about it,

maybe it will help your little guy that's struggling.

Sue in TN

" Do you think behavior

> techniques have a place when a

> > child gets to this point of

> frustration? It just seems so cold and

> > abandoning to me to use those methods

> with a child in so much

> > distress. "

> >

> > I think that is the very place for

> behavior techniques - when a child has gotten to the point of

> frustration and frankly, before you get to that point. I don't

think

> of behavior techniques to mean punishment. Is that what you mean

> when you say that? I'm not sure what techniques you might be

> referring to. When I say " behavior techniques " I am thinking of

> someone who has thought about the behavior, what the child is

saying

> by the behavior, and has made a plan of ways to dealing with the

> behavior appropriately.

> >

> > Roxanna

> > You're Unique

> > Just like everyone else...

> > Re: ( ) my

> son's aide got fired

> >

> >

> > > trying to

> > > 'escape' by crying or having a

> tantrum.

> >

> > I have such a hard time understanding

> this. I don't mean this

> > personally to Elaine, but just in

> general, because it's bothered me

> > for years. Doesn't it indicate a real

> need either for an escape in

> > some way, or some other level of

> desperation, at that point?

> >

> > I've been hanging around my son and

> daughter's autistic peers for 8

> > years now, hearing this same type of

> explanation while the behaviors

> > never change year to year, and I

> don't understand how kids who are

> > struggling so much with day to day

> stuff on so many levels,

> > simultaneously have the social

> giftedness to be able to manipulate

> > and control whole roomfuls of people.

> I hear this type of

> > explanation from a lot of the parents

> and educators at both my kids'

> > schools (self contained and a magnet

> program) and it never makes

> > sense to me - " they just want

> (attention, to get out of doing their

> > work, etc.) " - ??? Why do they " need "

> to get to the point of

> > throwing a tantrum to get those

> things, if that's really what they

> > need or want?

> >

> > When I see the kids in my son's class

> getting close to meltdowns, it

> > seems like it's because they've been

> pushed to the breaking point by

> > something that nobody seemed to

> notice until almost too late -

> > another child's noises, work that's

> too frustrating or tedious,

> > needing a sensory break, bad

> headaches or stomachaches after lunch

> > (most of the kids are not

> biomedically treated), no sleep the night

> > before - I mean it's not acceptable

> to throw yourself on the ground,

> > especially in middle and upper

> grades, and I don't allow tantrums at

> > all here, but when my kids used to

> have them I always thought it was

> > a clue to what *I* had done wrong,

> and figured it out that way. Why

> > don't the teachers see it like, wow

> we better change things around so

> > that kid isn't getting to the point

> of being out of control here,

> > rather than " oh you know that kid, he

> just wants ___ " ? There's one

> > aide at my son's school who, the

> minute kids start to show some

> > distress, like they're getting to a

> point where they need a break,

> > starts yelling at them and getting

> rough with them. This always ends

> > up with the kid throwing a tantrum

> (except my son), and then she gets

> > sarcastic and says that the child

> just wanted to get out of finishing

> > their work, and then makes them sit

> and finish it. My daughter has

> > seen this a few times and she's

> like, " mom, doesnt she know (child's

> > name) has autism? "

> >

> > Am I being naive? Are other people's

> kids crafty manipulators and I

> > just think too well of children? That

> might be true, I tend to give

> > children the benefit of the doubt,

> but maybe there really are some

> > just plain lazy kids out there whose

> goal when they come to school is

> > work avoidance? Do you think behavior

> techniques have a place when a

> > child gets to this point of

> frustration? It just seems so cold and

> > abandoning to me to use those methods

> with a child in so much

> > distress.

> >

> > Amy

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG -

> http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database:

270.5.10/1585 -

> Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------

> > Sök efter kärleken!

> > Hitta din tvillingsjäl på

> Dejting: http://se.meetic. .net

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com

> > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release

Date:

> 8/1/2008 6:59 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits

> in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your

> budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> ----------

> > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?

> Read reviews on AOL Autos.

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release

Date:

> 8/4/2008 8:09 AM

> >

>

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date:

8/4/2008 8:09 AM

>

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Roxanna,

I volunteer at my daughter's school on occasion. Once during a volunteer

session, they had me work with one of my daughter's first-grade classmates in

trying to recognize his numbers 1-10. He could count his numbers 1-10 just

fine, but when you mixed them up, he could not recognize them. I'd do flash

cards of numbers out of sequence, and he was clueless as to what they were, yet

he could say them sequentially. The young boy had no social issues so he was

clearly not Asperger's, but I've never seen anything like the disability he had.

I know from my daughter that he was held back a year. I don't know if they were

ever able to help him. I hope so!

Jaelynne

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Sounds like maybe a processing disorder. The info goes in,,,,but there's almost a "skip" inside the brain.

From: Jaelynne <jaelynnet@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Math Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:05 PM

Roxanna, I volunteer at my daughter's school on occasion. Once during a volunteer session, they had me work with one of my daughter's first-grade classmates in trying to recognize his numbers 1-10. He could count his numbers 1-10 just fine, but when you mixed them up, he could not recognize them. I'd do flash cards of numbers out of sequence, and he was clueless as to what they were, yet he could say them sequentially. The young boy had no social issues so he was clearly not Asperger's, but I've never seen anything like the disability he had. I know from my daughter that he was held back a year. I don't know if they were ever able to help him. I hope so!Jaelynne

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touch points are very helpful.

>

> Yes! there is a name for math disability too--Dyscalculia--inablity

> to memorize numerical facts such as addition, subtraction,

> multiplication tables. We spent over $2,000 one summer on tutoring in

> multiplication tables. By August he knew them due to daily

> repetition, by the end of Sept. he'd forgotten most of them! My son

> is EXACTLY like what you described.

>

> He also has no " internal numberline. " I think most people sort of

> have this " numberline " where your nose is zero, to the right are

> postive numbers and left are negative numbers? Unhuh. It is all a

> jumble for him. He is also spatially challenged and in knowing where

> body is in space: running into walls and other people...all related.

> But dyscalculia is just as real as dygraphic and dyslexia.

>

> A couple of suggestions that have worked a little with son are using

> kinesthetic (spelling?) with learning. i.e. his math tutor had a

> differen physical action, like slapping her leg or slapping her

> forehead that went with each times table. Or tossing a bean bag back

> and forth as he repeated the tables. Some of the music that teaches

> the basics that way helped just a little.

>

> Anything that is hands on for him helps, actual " pieces " that make up

> a pie for fractions. But in all honesty, even though he reads at

> grade level 12, his math skills are and have remained at about 3rd

> grade level and we have tried and tried. It is most difficult and

> impeding his progress at JobCorps. He's ready to finish the reading

> part and has points to graduate...but the math section remains

> behind. Even though he can use a calculator...he doesn't understand

> what function to do. Oh, and the biggest help for him are

> using " touch points " for addition and subtraction.

>

> Sue

>

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I wonder if you are right...my son can mentally process it but it becomes difficult processing it onto paper. Oh, our kids can be so confusing...so much going on and so many different learning difficulties and sensory things. No wonder my son gets fustrated and melts down. Although I must say...it has been several weeks since he has done that...and I think it has to do with "no school". ...less stress...less noise...and we have not done much this summer but chill.

I must say though...he is more relaxed with himself...he used to call everyone under the sun to play with him...he constantly was trying to find someone to hang with....and he would be so upset when no one could....now whether it is maturity or because of the help he is receiving or the fact he has Xbox Live (can always find someone to talk to )....he is much better. I see him less anxious and stressed. But the big if is how will he be when school starts.

jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: Jaelynne <jaelynnet (DOT) com>Subject: ( ) Re: Math Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 4:05 PM

Roxanna, I volunteer at my daughter's school on occasion. Once during a volunteer session, they had me work with one of my daughter's first-grade classmates in trying to recognize his numbers 1-10. He could count his numbers 1-10 just fine, but when you mixed them up, he could not recognize them. I'd do flash cards of numbers out of sequence, and he was clueless as to what they were, yet he could say them sequentially. The young boy had no social issues so he was clearly not Asperger's, but I've never seen anything like the disability he had. I know from my daughter that he was held back a year. I don't know if they were ever able to help him. I hope so!Jaelynne

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>

> I wonder if you are right...my son can mentally process it but it

becomes difficult processing it onto paper.

Hey Jan, my son has issues like this. My son's problems are caused by

weak working memory, slowish processing speed, and expressive language

problems. We're still working on it, but the neuropsych says to teach

him lots of acronyms to help memory recall, break things into smaller

than normal steps when teaching, teach verbally first--that's all I

can remember off the top of my head.

If someone's kid is like the one who could verbally count but not

recognize the numbers--that could be a visual processing problem.

Some AS kids have this as a co-existing condition. It is called

non-verbal learning disorder. My son does not have it. A red flag is

if there is a huge difference between their verbal comprehension index

and perceptual reasoning index on the WISC-IV IQ test. I've known

people with kids with this. Other red flags for this is if your child

is really bad at construction toys and misjudges distance and bumps

into things a lot.

Ruth

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hmmmmmmmmmmmm....weak working memory....would that be why he can memorize spelling words for the test and 2 weeks later not know how to spell them????? But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Math Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 8:26 AM

>> I wonder if you are right...my son can mentally process it but itbecomes difficult processing it onto paper. Hey Jan, my son has issues like this. My son's problems are caused byweak working memory, slowish processing speed, and expressive languageproblems. We're still working on it, but the neuropsych says to teachhim lots of acronyms to help memory recall, break things into smallerthan normal steps when teaching, teach verbally first--that' s all Ican remember off the top of my head.If someone's kid is like the one who could verbally count but notrecognize the numbers--that could be a visual processing problem. Some AS kids have this as a co-existing condition. It is callednon-verbal learning disorder. My son

does not have it. A red flag isif there is a huge difference between their verbal comprehension indexand perceptual reasoning index on the WISC-IV IQ test. I've knownpeople with kids with this. Other red flags for this is if your childis really bad at construction toys and misjudges distance and bumpsinto things a lot.Ruth

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