I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

[Guest guest]

,

If I could do one thing differently with baby #1 than I did do, I would have

held and nursed him in the delivery room--I had no idea it took so long to

get out of there! So my advice to any mom--to give just one bit--is nurse

immediately--before baby goes for the first checkup.

Amy Lynn

mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

> Lol, well said!! , if it bothers you that much, maybe you could do

> some work with LLL or something to help to promote bfing and educate

women,

> that is really the problem. I didn't bf my first, I was totally ignorant

> and thought that bfing was just this completely natural thing that I would

> know how to do automatically. My baby is due in 2 weeks, and this time I

> have read everything I can and talked to alot of women. Information and

> support should be more available and maybe then we'd hear more women that

> say " I tried to bf and I had a hard time but eventually it worked out

> because I had alot of help and information. "

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Be sure to watch the nursing babies. It can help you to fiund out what they

do that makes things hgo better. If you have any questions that aren't

answered during the meeting there should an open time afterward.

Amy Lynn

mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work

> >out...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 10/27/00 8:22:18 AM Central Daylight Time,

> > > > Reminisce71@... writes:

> > > >

> > > > << So no, I don't feel like smaking a woman who says that. >>

> > > >

> > > > i agree

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Carlie 2/17/98 & Destiny 9/14/00

> > > > >HREF= " http://www.lafayettegeneral.org/baby/displaybaby.cfm?ID=963 " >

> > > > Welcome Destiny !! (Picture & info)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > eGroups Sponsor

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

> > > > http://www.lactivist.com

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >_________________________________________________________________________

> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

> >http://www.hotmail.com.

> > >

> > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> > > http://profiles.msn.com.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

> > > http://www.lactivist.com

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________________

> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> http://profiles.msn.com.

>

>

>

> Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

> http://www.lactivist.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/27/00 2:22:34 PM Central Standard Time,

morris@... writes:

<< I tried BF but it just didn't work out... Does anyone else feel like

> smacking a women that tells you that when you know they didn't even try

for

> what ever lame reason? >>

No, because who are you or I to make a judgement on wether it was a " lame "

reason, I am not in the habit of judging people whose shoes I have never been

in. I have been sucessful at my first attemppt at BF, but I did research, I

read books and prepared myself as best I could, but not everyone is like

that, and not everyone has a support system like I had, I try to help and

encourage anyone interested in BF, but don't condem those who aren't as

entusiacstic or dedicated to it as I am, all I can do is be a good example,

it is not my place to look down my nose at those who are not as willing to

work at BF as hard as I was.

-Llanda

Mommy to 4/4/2000

visit 's Web page at http://www.growthspurts.com/view.asp?s=20924

" I am in shape. Round is a shape. "

[Guest guest]

Amy Lynn,

You are so right about that. I have that in my birth plan, that I want time

to bf and bond before they do any newborn procedures. I have also mentioned

it to my OB, and she seems to be fine with that. But she did say " you might

have to give him a little bit, some babies are stunned right after birth and

won't nurse. " I have seen video tapes of babies creeping up their mother's

stomache and finding the nipple themselves, and I remember how alert my

first son was, wanting to suck on everything. So I don't know what she was

talking about, but I guess we'll find out because I am going to start right

away. And I am at 38 weeks, so hopefully he'll be here and we'll be nursing

well soon!

>

>Reply-To: breastfeeding (AT) e

>To: breastfeeding (AT) e>

>Subject: Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:40:45 -0500

>

>,

>

>If I could do one thing differently with baby #1 than I did do, I would

>have

>held and nursed him in the delivery room--I had no idea it took so long to

>get out of there! So my advice to any mom--to give just one bit--is nurse

>immediately--before baby goes for the first checkup.

>

>Amy Lynn

>mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

>Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

>www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

>

>

> > Lol, well said!! , if it bothers you that much, maybe you could

>do

> > some work with LLL or something to help to promote bfing and educate

>women,

> > that is really the problem. I didn't bf my first, I was totally

>ignorant

> > and thought that bfing was just this completely natural thing that I

>would

> > know how to do automatically. My baby is due in 2 weeks, and this time

>I

> > have read everything I can and talked to alot of women. Information and

> > support should be more available and maybe then we'd hear more women

>that

> > say " I tried to bf and I had a hard time but eventually it worked out

> > because I had alot of help and information. "

> >

> >

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

Thankyou, I will do that.

>

>Reply-To: breastfeeding (AT) e

>To: breastfeeding (AT) e>

>Subject: Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:45:42 -0500

>

>Be sure to watch the nursing babies. It can help you to fiund out what

>they

>do that makes things hgo better. If you have any questions that aren't

>answered during the meeting there should an open time afterward.

>

>Amy Lynn

>mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

>Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

>www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

> Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work

> > >out...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In a message dated 10/27/00 8:22:18 AM Central Daylight Time,

> > > > > Reminisce71@... writes:

> > > > >

> > > > > << So no, I don't feel like smaking a woman who says that. >>

> > > > >

> > > > > i agree

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Carlie 2/17/98 & Destiny 9/14/00

> > > > > > >HREF= " http://www.lafayettegeneral.org/baby/displaybaby.cfm?ID=963 " >

> > > > > Welcome Destiny !! (Picture & info)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > eGroups Sponsor

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

> > > > > http://www.lactivist.com

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> >

> >_________________________________________________________________________

> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

> > >http://www.hotmail.com.

> > > >

> > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> > > > http://profiles.msn.com.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

> > > > http://www.lactivist.com

> > >

> >

> >

>_________________________________________________________________________

> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at

>http://www.hotmail.com.

> >

> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

> > http://profiles.msn.com.

> >

> >

> >

> > Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

> > http://www.lactivist.com

> >

> >

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

My daughter was born at 33/34 weeks and I tried to

BF as soon as she was born. However, she was

too floppy & sleepy and had to be taken immediately

for stimulation. She was physically unable to BF

for nearly 8 weeks. Your OB, in my opinion, is right

to mention that SOME babies are unable to nurse

immediately. I wish that someone had told me that!

I do hope that your baby is just like your first & has no

problems! This seems to be the norm, however there

are the exceptions that I wish more OB's warned

patients about.

JMHO,

[Guest guest]

I nursed my last two right away and the last one was born posterior with a big bruise on his head, wasn't stunned at all :-) Maybe she means instantly after birth? I nursed mine within 1/2 hour after birth, the last one I bled a lot and with the Dr and nurses trying to stop that I didn't get him until he was 1/2 hour old but he nursed for 45 minutes straight!

Michele

Amy Lynn,You are so right about that. I have that in my birth plan, that I want time to bf and bond before they do any newborn procedures. I have also mentioned it to my OB, and she seems to be fine with that. But she did say "you might have to give him a little bit, some babies are stunned right after birth and won't nurse." I have seen video tapes of babies creeping up their mother's stomache and finding the nipple themselves, and I remember how alert my first son was, wanting to suck on everything. So I don't know what she was talking about, but I guess we'll find out because I am going to start right away. And I am at 38 weeks, so hopefully he'll be here and we'll be nursing well soon!

[Guest guest]

I know what you mean . My DD nursed well from the start but my milk did not come in for 5 days and she was acting hungry. I was so glad to have the SNS because I did go ahead and give her 2 oz of formula so I could get some sleep on the 2nd day. I am as anti formula as it gets, but when you are exhausted and sleep deprived after giving birth you are desperate. I am glad to have the SNS (like the lact aid better, but don't have one)just "in case".

Joan S. ~ Wife, Mom, Teacher, Chief Cook and BreastfeederTo find out why I love Jesus, breastfeed, homeschool, adopted, don't spank, don't vaccinate and other radical information, go to: http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/hsmomof4 or http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/themestreamarticles

"Things which matter most must never be at the mercy of things which matter least." Goethe

Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

My daughter was born at 33/34 weeks and I tried toBF as soon as she was born. However, she wastoo floppy & sleepy and had to be taken immediatelyfor stimulation. She was physically unable to BFfor nearly 8 weeks. Your OB, in my opinion, is rightto mention that SOME babies are unable to nurseimmediately. I wish that someone had told me that!I do hope that your baby is just like your first & has noproblems! This seems to be the norm, however thereare the exceptions that I wish more OB's warnedpatients about.JMHO,Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!http://www.lactivist.com

[Guest guest]

Lucas had to be monitored for a few minutes because his heartrate was

decelerating, plus they found a murmur during his first exam. While they

were checking me for tears, my husband stood by the warmer that Lucas was

in talking to him and stroking him. He was already trying to get his fist

in his mouth. By the time they were finished with me, Lucas was ready for

me, too, and latched on great first time out. They came to take him for his

first bath and when she realized I was nursing...said oh no...the bath can

wait, that is MUCH more important. Yay for our hospital! I was so glad for

that first nursing session as I knew Lucas had a good latch, after that he

was quite sleepy for a couple of days and did very little nursing.

Sue

At 10:18 PM 10/30/00 +0000, you wrote:

>Amy Lynn,

>You are so right about that. I have that in my birth plan, that I want time

>to bf and bond before they do any newborn procedures. I have also mentioned

>it to my OB, and she seems to be fine with that. But she did say " you might

>have to give him a little bit, some babies are stunned right after birth and

>won't nurse. " I have seen video tapes of babies creeping up their mother's

>stomache and finding the nipple themselves, and I remember how alert my

>first son was, wanting to suck on everything. So I don't know what she was

>talking about, but I guess we'll find out because I am going to start right

>away. And I am at 38 weeks, so hopefully he'll be here and we'll be nursing

>well soon!

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I had my son with midwives at home and was set on nursing him right away.

He was completely stunned and wanted nothing to do with nursing for over an

hour. When he latched on he nursed for the next two hours. He had some

fluid in his throat that took him a bit of time to clear and he just wasn't

interested right away. I just offered every few minutes and finally he

nursed for a long time. At home I had the luxury of just holding him and

letting him take his time without the pressure to do any exams or

procedures. Just wanted to share my experience.

Wendi

http://www.lactivist.com

" When individuals have been born gently, welcomed kindly into the community,

breastfed for many years, they do not become greedy people. They come from a

place of fullness and balance with all our relations. " Jeannine Parvati

Baker

Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

>Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:40:45 -0500

>

>,

>

>If I could do one thing differently with baby #1 than I did do, I would

>have

>held and nursed him in the delivery room--I had no idea it took so long to

>get out of there! So my advice to any mom--to give just one bit--is nurse

>immediately--before baby goes for the first checkup.

>

>Amy Lynn

>mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

>Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

>www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

>

>

> > Lol, well said!! , if it bothers you that much, maybe you could

>do

> > some work with LLL or something to help to promote bfing and educate

>women,

> > that is really the problem. I didn't bf my first, I was totally

>ignorant

> > and thought that bfing was just this completely natural thing that I

>would

> > know how to do automatically. My baby is due in 2 weeks, and this time

>I

> > have read everything I can and talked to alot of women. Information and

> > support should be more available and maybe then we'd hear more women

>that

> > say " I tried to bf and I had a hard time but eventually it worked out

> > because I had alot of help and information. "

> >

> >

> >

>

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

http://www.lactivist.com

[Guest guest]

Wendi,

I will keep that in mind, that every baby reacts differently. The hospital

I am going to, they are supposed to leave us alone together for 2 hours and

then we go up to our room, but he's rooming in with me so hopefully we'll

have plenty of time to try. Thanks for sharing your experience!

>

>Reply-To: breastfeeding (AT) e

>To: breastfeeding (AT) e>

>Subject: RE: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:34:04 -0800

>

>,

>

>I had my son with midwives at home and was set on nursing him right away.

>He was completely stunned and wanted nothing to do with nursing for over an

>hour. When he latched on he nursed for the next two hours. He had

>some

>fluid in his throat that took him a bit of time to clear and he just wasn't

>interested right away. I just offered every few minutes and finally he

>nursed for a long time. At home I had the luxury of just holding him and

>letting him take his time without the pressure to do any exams or

>procedures. Just wanted to share my experience.

>

>

>Wendi

>http://www.lactivist.com

>

> " When individuals have been born gently, welcomed kindly into the

>community,

>breastfed for many years, they do not become greedy people. They come from

>a

>place of fullness and balance with all our relations. " Jeannine Parvati

>Baker

>

>

> Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

> >Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:40:45 -0500

> >

> >,

> >

> >If I could do one thing differently with baby #1 than I did do, I would

> >have

> >held and nursed him in the delivery room--I had no idea it took so long

>to

> >get out of there! So my advice to any mom--to give just one bit--is

>nurse

> >immediately--before baby goes for the first checkup.

> >

> >Amy Lynn

> >mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

> >Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

> >www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

> >

> >

> > > Lol, well said!! , if it bothers you that much, maybe you

>could

> >do

> > > some work with LLL or something to help to promote bfing and educate

> >women,

> > > that is really the problem. I didn't bf my first, I was totally

> >ignorant

> > > and thought that bfing was just this completely natural thing that I

> >would

> > > know how to do automatically. My baby is due in 2 weeks, and this

>time

> >I

> > > have read everything I can and talked to alot of women. Information

>and

> > > support should be more available and maybe then we'd hear more women

> >that

> > > say " I tried to bf and I had a hard time but eventually it worked out

> > > because I had alot of help and information. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

>http://profiles.msn.com.

>

>

>

>Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

>http://www.lactivist.com

>

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

,

My dd was born after 6 hours of induced labor and I had to wait about 30

minutes before she was ready to nurse--she wanted to find out who was so

anxious to meet her. In that time though, dad and doula held her also, and

we got to begin bonding. Then she nursed for an hour!! So your OB probably

means that your baby may not want your breast immediately--but its still

better for you to hold the baby under warm blankets than for it to go under

the warmer.

Amy Lynn

mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

> Amy Lynn,

> You are so right about that. I have that in my birth plan, that I want

time

> to bf and bond before they do any newborn procedures. I have also

mentioned

> it to my OB, and she seems to be fine with that. But she did say " you

might

> have to give him a little bit, some babies are stunned right after birth

and

> won't nurse. " I have seen video tapes of babies creeping up their

mother's

> stomache and finding the nipple themselves, and I remember how alert my

> first son was, wanting to suck on everything. So I don't know what she

was

> talking about, but I guess we'll find out because I am going to start

right

> away. And I am at 38 weeks, so hopefully he'll be here and we'll be

nursing

> well soon!

[Guest guest]

I personally cant stand Reglan but I've heard it can double the supply in a

lot of women in about 2 weeks but you need to visit the Dr ( An OB/GYN I

think) to get it. Have you joined the pumping moms mailing list? There great

with tips to help!

RE: Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

> Hi, I guess you could say I'm one of those that it just isnt working out

for.

> I'll keep renting my Lactina and pumping away , its very discouraging when

I

> don't get more than 1 ounce total per pumping sessions, even if i do get a

> second letdown. I have been on Brewers Yeast for 1 week, 6- 3X a day plus

I

> started taking Fenugreek 3- 3X a day for 5 days and I dont see an

increase,I

> eat oatmeal everyday. My 6 month old daughter refuses to nurse since she

was

> 4 1/2 mo old. If anyone has any other suggestions, they would be more than

> welcome. She seems to get more formula since I cant produce enough for

her.I

> work full time outside the home and take my pump with me everyday. I tried

> leaving the Lactina at work and using my PIS at home but i get even less

if I

> use my PIS. I try to pump 8 times a day even getting up in the middle of

the

> night. I guess i'll just keep pumping along , some is better than none.

>

> Wanda, mom to 4

[Guest guest]

If there on this list I assume there BF'ing which means they must have figured that BF was better and decided to dump formula. I think they've learned from there past which in my eyes and a lot of others means a lot and I think that's great. We just get frustrated when they really don't try to BF and are willing to put there child at such risk by formula feeding just because of there own ignorance (or chosen ignorance) or what they perceive as a hassle. You know its funny, so many women spend so much time putting together a nursery that baby will hardly spend any time in but yet will not get off there butts and learn about how to feed there baby! We buy books on pregnancy, baby care and parenting by the millions but yet pass up the one thing that will have a life long effect on our children's lives and people just don't seem to understand that and that's why we get upset. There are TONS of BF'ing resources if you just ask.

----*A baby can survive on formula but they can only flourish on breast milk!

Re: Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

Wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if we were all perfect all of the time.

I say that "it just didn't work out" with my first because I don't feel like explaining myself to everybody and rehashing the whole story. I know I did the best I knew how at the time and if others don't understand that, then it's their problem, not mine. I don't have to explain myself to anyone.

I know of someone who is thinking of leaving this list, and the support it has given her, because posts like this hurt her and make her think others see her as not a good enough mother, or that she didn't try hard enough with previous children.

Michele, who must not be "such a shining example" of motherhood because she's not perfect, nor attains to be.

[Guest guest]

I'm going to hop up on my soapbox now because I haven't had enough caffeine

this morning to make me know better....

I get frustrated when I hear a woman say that breastfeeding didn't work out

for any of the relatively easy-to-solve problems. Why do I get frustrated?

It's a combination of things. First and foremost is the fact that I didn't

make it past 5 months with any of the other kids partially because I didn't

know then what I know now and partially because I had doctors that were a-ok

with my switching to formula. I know the regrets I have now and would not

wish that on anyone. Of course, 11 years ago, I didn't have all the

resources I do now. There are so many places to turn to for information that

it seems some women would rather turn a blind eye than do the research, ask

the questions, take the time to get some help.

Secondly, every time a woman says, " I tried but I just couldn't breastfeed

because I wasn't making enough milk [or choose another reason] " and a

pregnant woman hears it, a seed of doubt is planted. That woman may assume

that it's common to not make enough milk and when she hits the time when her

supply is nicely regulated and her breasts don't feel uncomfortably full

anymore, she might think the same thing has happened to her. Then she tells

people the same thing and so on.

Thirdly, I've learned not to rely on medical professionals for nursing

advice but not everyone learns that. It's so common to assume that M.D.

means " knows everything. " If my doctor was really informed about

breastfeeding, he would not look surprised when I say that 's diet

still 99% breastmilk. Don't get me wrong, he's supportive, but I can tell he

doesn't deal with 6 mo. old breastfed babies that much. It seems that too

many doctors tell a mom to switch to formula rather than recommending a

source of breastfeeding help.

Lastly, I know women who have a heck of a time with breastfeeding. You name

the problem, they overcame it. They are such a shining example of the

sacrifices that moms make. So why do they succeed when others give up? Pure

determination. I would imagine that many moms actually have enough

determination -- they just need to apply it to breastfeeding too.

[Guest guest]

Well said, ! I feel the same way.

Blithe

> I'm going to hop up on my soapbox now because I haven't had enough

caffeine

> this morning to make me know better....

>

> I get frustrated when I hear a woman say that breastfeeding didn't work

out

> for any of the relatively easy-to-solve problems. Why do I get frustrated?

> It's a combination of things. First and foremost is the fact that I didn't

> make it past 5 months with any of the other kids partially because I

didn't

> know then what I know now and partially because I had doctors that were

a-ok

> with my switching to formula. I know the regrets I have now and would not

> wish that on anyone. Of course, 11 years ago, I didn't have all the

> resources I do now. There are so many places to turn to for information

that

> it seems some women would rather turn a blind eye than do the research,

ask

> the questions, take the time to get some help.

>

> Secondly, every time a woman says, " I tried but I just couldn't breastfeed

> because I wasn't making enough milk [or choose another reason] " and a

> pregnant woman hears it, a seed of doubt is planted. That woman may assume

> that it's common to not make enough milk and when she hits the time when

her

> supply is nicely regulated and her breasts don't feel uncomfortably full

> anymore, she might think the same thing has happened to her. Then she

tells

> people the same thing and so on.

>

> Thirdly, I've learned not to rely on medical professionals for nursing

> advice but not everyone learns that. It's so common to assume that M.D.

> means " knows everything. " If my doctor was really informed about

> breastfeeding, he would not look surprised when I say that 's diet

> still 99% breastmilk. Don't get me wrong, he's supportive, but I can tell

he

> doesn't deal with 6 mo. old breastfed babies that much. It seems that too

> many doctors tell a mom to switch to formula rather than recommending a

> source of breastfeeding help.

>

> Lastly, I know women who have a heck of a time with breastfeeding. You

name

> the problem, they overcame it. They are such a shining example of the

> sacrifices that moms make. So why do they succeed when others give up?

Pure

> determination. I would imagine that many moms actually have enough

> determination -- they just need to apply it to breastfeeding too.

>

>

>

>

>

> Give the Gift of Life Breastfeed!

> http://www.lactivist.com

>

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if we were all perfect all of the time.

I say that "it just didn't work out" with my first because I don't feel like explaining myself to everybody and rehashing the whole story. I know I did the best I knew how at the time and if others don't understand that, then it's their problem, not mine. I don't have to explain myself to anyone.

I know of someone who is thinking of leaving this list, and the support it has given her, because posts like this hurt her and make her think others see her as not a good enough mother, or that she didn't try hard enough with previous children.

Michele, who must not be "such a shining example" of motherhood because she's not perfect, nor attains to be.

I'm going to hop up on my soapbox now because I haven't had enough caffeinethis morning to make me know better....I get frustrated when I hear a woman say that breastfeeding didn't work outfor any of the relatively easy-to-solve problems. Why do I get frustrated?It's a combination of things. First and foremost is the fact that I didn'tmake it past 5 months with any of the other kids partially because I didn'tknow then what I know now and partially because I had doctors that were a-okwith my switching to formula. I know the regrets I have now and would notwish that on anyone. Of course, 11 years ago, I didn't have all theresources I do now. There are so many places to turn to for information thatit seems some women would rather turn a blind eye than do the research, askthe questions, take the time to get some help.Secondly, every time a woman says, "I tried but I just couldn't breastfeedbecause I wasn't making enough milk [or choose another reason]" and apregnant woman hears it, a seed of doubt is planted. That woman may assumethat it's common to not make enough milk and when she hits the time when hersupply is nicely regulated and her breasts don't feel uncomfortably fullanymore, she might think the same thing has happened to her. Then she tellspeople the same thing and so on.Thirdly, I've learned not to rely on medical professionals for nursingadvice but not everyone learns that. It's so common to assume that M.D.means "knows everything." If my doctor was really informed aboutbreastfeeding, he would not look surprised when I say that 's dietstill 99% breastmilk. Don't get me wrong, he's supportive, but I can tell hedoesn't deal with 6 mo. old breastfed babies that much. It seems that toomany doctors tell a mom to switch to formula rather than recommending asource of breastfeeding help.Lastly, I know women who have a heck of a time with breastfeeding. You namethe problem, they overcame it. They are such a shining example of thesacrifices that moms make. So why do they succeed when others give up? Puredetermination. I would imagine that many moms actually have enoughdetermination -- they just need to apply it to breastfeeding too.

[Guest guest]

This is not a 'good mom/ bad mom' issue. I don't think that a mom is failure

in any case. The system may have *failed her* but we can only go with what

we know. It is our healthcare providers responsibility to inform us the

formula feeding is substandard. I FF my first 2 after a woefully short time

with BF. In fact, it wasn't until after " it worked' with number 3 that I

became such a BF proponent. *I* was ignorant on the subject and it does

frustrate me when a mom is unaware of the differences and switches to ABM

after a short period of time, or stops BF at the first sign of trouble. It

is doubly frustrating when the mom knows that I am a peer counselor and they

do not ask me for help.

I know that for a long time, I was defensive. When I heard the formula

feeding is inferior, I felt like people were saying that I was an inferior

mom. I have realized that I only did what I thought that I could do. I have

regrets, but not guilt.

Jenn

-----Original Message-----

From: ~ Michele ~

Wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if we were all perfect all

of the time.

Michele, who must not be " such a shining example " of motherhood

because she's not perfect, nor attains to be.

I'm going to hop up on my soapbox now because I haven't had

enough caffeine

this morning to make me know better....

I get frustrated when I hear a woman say that breastfeeding

didn't work out

for any of the relatively easy-to-solve problems. Why do I

get frustrated?

It's a combination of things. There are so many places to

turn to for information that

it seems some women would rather turn a blind eye than do

the research, ask

the questions, take the time to get some help.

Secondly, every time a woman says, " I tried but I just

couldn't breastfeed

because I wasn't making enough milk [or choose another

reason] " and a

pregnant woman hears it, a seed of doubt is planted. Then

she tells

people the same thing and so on.

Thirdly, I've learned not to rely on medical professionals

for nursing

advice but not everyone learns that. It's so common to

assume that M.D.

means " knows everything. " It seems that too

many doctors tell a mom to switch to formula rather than

recommending a

source of breastfeeding help.

[Guest guest]

Hi, I guess you could say I'm one of those that it just isnt working out for.

I'll keep renting my Lactina and pumping away , its very discouraging when I

don't get more than 1 ounce total per pumping sessions, even if i do get a

second letdown. I have been on Brewers Yeast for 1 week, 6- 3X a day plus I

started taking Fenugreek 3- 3X a day for 5 days and I dont see an increase,I

eat oatmeal everyday. My 6 month old daughter refuses to nurse since she was

4 1/2 mo old. If anyone has any other suggestions, they would be more than

welcome. She seems to get more formula since I cant produce enough for her.I

work full time outside the home and take my pump with me everyday. I tried

leaving the Lactina at work and using my PIS at home but i get even less if I

use my PIS. I try to pump 8 times a day even getting up in the middle of the

night. I guess i'll just keep pumping along , some is better than none.

Wanda, mom to 4

[Guest guest]

I don't think we are talking about perfection here. Of course none of us is perfect all of the time. gave several examples in her message of doctors and others who are less than informed about and supportive of breastfeeding. That is the real issue. Women need to know that they CAN breastfeed. They need to know that most breastfeeding problems can be worked out so a nursing relationship can continue. There is so much good information out there and it is not making its way to the women who need it. Women need to support each other in breastfeeding. That's what this list is about. If someone feels she needs to leave the list because messages like this hurt her I think she needs to take some time to resolve the issues she has with her past nursing relationships. There is a great article in the most recent issue of the "The Nursing Mom's News" (an email newsletter at egroups if anyone is interested in subscribing) about this. None of this is meant to hurt, it is meant to help.

Blithe

Re: Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

Wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if we were all perfect all of the time.

I say that "it just didn't work out" with my first because I don't feel like explaining myself to everybody and rehashing the whole story. I know I did the best I knew how at the time and if others don't understand that, then it's their problem, not mine. I don't have to explain myself to anyone.

I know of someone who is thinking of leaving this list, and the support it has given her, because posts like this hurt her and make her think others see her as not a good enough mother, or that she didn't try hard enough with previous children.

Michele, who must not be "such a shining example" of motherhood because she's not perfect, nor attains to be.

[Guest guest]

> Lastly, I know women who have a heck of a time with breastfeeding. You

name

> the problem, they overcame it. They are such a shining example of the

> sacrifices that moms make. So why do they succeed when others give up?

Pure

> determination. I would imagine that many moms actually have enough

> determination -- they just need to apply it to breastfeeding too.

>

,

You are so right, and I especially like the above about determination.

Amy Lynn

mother to 1-25-98 and 2-10-00

Want great toys? Non-violent, educational, fun! check out

www.discoverytoysinc.com, or e-mail me privately for a catalog

[Guest guest]

Not only is the medical system resposible for the unsupport of BF, I feel

that society in general is too, because they've bought the BS about ABM, not

to mention buying the ABM.

Case in point:

You know the problems we're having with Christy latching on. Furthermore,

she is falling squarely into the " high-needs " category.

Almost to a one, people in my family are blaming it on my breastmilk. She'd

be a quieter baby if I fed her formula, she wouldn't demand to be held all

the time if I fed her formula, she'd sleep more if I fed her formula, she'd

grow faster if I fed her formula.

I feel like buying a copy of Sears' " fussy baby " book and LLL's " Womanly

Art " for everyone in my family and telling them that they can talk to me

about my daughter only after they've read the research. I don't comment on

what they say, I simply keep bfing, telling myself that my daughter will

have less chance of (name your disease), will have a higher IQ than whoever

is talking to me at the moment (smile), and will probably be gifted.

Furthermore, I keep my mother in mind, who is battling breast cancer right

now. And she never bf because the doctor told her there was no way she

could produce enough milk, so she never even tried.

Moms have enough guilt heaped on them in this world. If a woman stopped

bfing because " it didn't work out " - I don't blame her in the least. I'm

sure she did the best she could. Period. It all comes down to accurate

information and support. If the woman didn't have access to accurate

information or support, how can she be blamed?

On a side note, has anyone else noticed the ABM companies pushing formula on

other segments of society besides babies? Ovaltine, Ensure, Carnation

Instant Breakfast, etc. When I was pregnant, unable to gain weight, and in

ketosis because of throwing up all the time, my family all wanted to know

why I wasn't drinking Ensure. I told them that I'd rather have real food

rather than overprocessed baby formula with different packaging.

Anni, soapbox standing nearby...

and Christy, sound asleep (for now) in her sling

[Guest guest]

Dear Wanda,

I admire your fortitude that has kept you going this long!!!

Many women in your situation would have given up long

ago. Have you talked to your doctor about the drop in

milk production? Perhaps there is an underlying issue

that can be dealt with? I don't know. I just want to offer

words of encouragement. You are doing the best possible

for your daughter, don't let anyone make you feel otherwise!

Love,

[Guest guest]

my 3 breastfed babies gained weight a lot faster then my FF baby.. my FF

baby werighed like 16 pounds at a year. he hardly ever gained weight. my 7

year old I only nursed for 5 months, but he gained weight quit a bit faster

then Tyler did, but he had FF supplemnts, where my 2 younger ones Dylan I BB

for 16 months, and Mikayla I am still nursing, gained a pound a week for the

first couple of months. Mikayla is 8 1/2 months and weights like 21 pounds

already.

Beckie and mikayla 2/17/00

>

>Reply-To: breastfeeding (AT) e

>To: breastfeeding (AT) e>

>Subject: Re: I tried BF but it just didn't work out...

>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:18:48 -0500

>

>

> > Almost to a one, people in my family are blaming it on my breastmilk.

>She'd

> > be a quieter baby if I fed her formula, she wouldn't demand to be held

>all

> > the time if I fed her formula, she'd sleep more if I fed her formula,

>she'd

> > grow faster if I fed her formula.

>

>Anni, this is probably all true. Is it possible that our society thinks

>that

>babies should be quiet, undemanding, long sleepers who gain weight rapidly

>because the past generation or so is so used to formula fed babies'

>behaviour?

>

>I know my kids, while breastfed, have never been any of those things. I

>just

>always assumed that's their personality!

>

> >And she never bf because the doctor told her there was no way she

> > could produce enough milk, so she never even tried.

>

>I get so mad when I hear this! I know at the time is was quite common, but

>I

>don't think it's unheard of today!

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Wanda,

My hat's off to you and other women who pump to bfeed! I don't know if

I could ever do that!

Even though we had some iffy times, on the whole bfeeding has been easy

for us. I can't say if it was difficult or we had serious problems if I

would have the determination, energy, etc. to pump to feed. To be doing

that as a mom of 4, and working full time, you have my admiration!

Joan