Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Kathleen, congrats on checking your sugar before deciding that you needed to eat. For lots of folks, a quick drop from high to normal will feel just like a low. How low is too low depends on you. I would LOVE to stay at 63 all the time. I function well down to 50, whereas some people don't function well below 80. It all depends on your body. On a related note, do you carry anything that would be more diabetic friendly than popcicles and chips for helping with lows? I have had bood luck with glucose tabs, but it sometimes takes 3-5 to get my sugar back up to where it needs to be. > > > I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I was > awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat some > potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. I > ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and louder > so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it was 63. > So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low is too > low? > > Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Kathleen, when you " heard that voice inside telling you to eat some chips, " did you test first? Before you take something to bring your BGs up, you need to test first. Don't assume you're low just because you feel low. This is especially true for newbies, who often have been high for so long that when they approach a good diabetic number, i.e. between 80 and 120, they often feel like they're having a hypo when they actually aren't. It's MUCH better to use glucose tabs -- they're cheap and taste like candy but more importantly, they raise your BG the same amount, consistently, which is not true of any food or juice. For most type 2s that's 20 points, but better you should test yourself when you're not low, take a BG reading then wait 10 minutes and start doing a test every 5 minutes until you get 2 readings that are more or less the same, about within 10 points). You'll only need to do this test once because glucose tabs raise your BG the same amount, consistently, as I said before. It's also really better not to keep things such as chips or popsicles around for any reason or to use to bring BGs up because the raise is NOT consistent and it's easy to eat too much and go high, which can cause a " rollercoaster " effect, where you go way high then way low. You don't want to do this. Vicki this morning > > > I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I > was > awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat > some > potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. > I > ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and > louder > so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it > was 63. > So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low > is too > low? > > Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Once your BG hits 70, it's time to worry. Some people don't - but those people are generally those with *EXTREMELY* good control, and who are used to keeping their BSs low to begin with. 63 is definitely low. And, IMHO far too low to go back to sleep on! Now, the thing is - how many carbs in that Popsicle, and the half a bag of chips? More than likely enough to send you soaring back up! A better method of treating lows is with 1-3 glucose tablets which have a measured, easily controlled amount, of fast-acting glucose in them. SulaBlue > > > I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I was > awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat some > potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. I > ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and louder > so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it was 63. > So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low is too > low? > > Kathleen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 GOOD GRIEF KATHLEEN, isn't that a bit overdoing it????? Yes 63 is a bit low but not dangerous. ONE popcicle would have done the trick but the better thing to keep on hand for lows is a bottle of glucose tablets which are fairly inexpensive & can be bought in a drugstore. In addition to giving you an KNOWN amount of glucose it keeps you from having stuff that YOU SHOULD NOT BE EATING on hand in the house. cappie Greater Boston Area T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E, Policosanol, fish oil cap, fresh flax seed, multi vitamin, Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg 5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309) 5' tall /age 67, cappie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Kathleen, I agree with the folks who recommend glucose tabs instead of other things, but if you don't have glucose tabs, then use whatever is handy. > GOOD GRIEF KATHLEEN, isn't that a bit overdoing it????? > > Yes 63 is a bit low but not dangerous. ONE popcicle would have done the > trick but the better thing to keep on hand for lows is a bottle of > glucose tablets which are fairly inexpensive & can be bought in a > drugstore. In addition to giving you an KNOWN amount of glucose it > keeps you from having stuff that YOU SHOULD NOT BE EATING on hand in the > house. > > > cappie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 Its okay Kathleen, I too would opt for something good and sweet for a low. My philosophy is " If I'm gonna have the after effects of a low then I'm gonna do something to enjoy it. " That is just my opinion and I am welcome to it. LOL Jan Haney GOOD GRIEF KATHLEEN, isn't that a bit overdoing it????? Yes 63 is a bit low but not dangerous. ONE popcicle would have done the trick but the better thing to keep on hand for lows is a bottle of glucose tablets which are fairly inexpensive & can be bought in a drugstore. In addition to giving you an KNOWN amount of glucose it keeps you from having stuff that YOU SHOULD NOT BE EATING on hand in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2005 Report Share Posted July 4, 2005 How low is too low is very dependent on where you normally run. I tend to keep pretty close to 100, so 60 isn't too low but it is low. I don't worry until I get to 55 or lower and get upset if I'm in the 40's... As for what to eat... Eat what works best for you but in moderation so you don't start the roller coaster... this morning I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I was awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat some potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. I ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and louder so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it was 63. So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low is too low? Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:30:30 -0700, " Jan Haney " wrote: >Its okay Kathleen, I too would opt for something good and sweet for a low. My philosophy is " If I'm gonna have the after effects of a low then I'm gonna do something to enjoy it. " That is just my opinion and I am welcome to it. LOL Yup, same attitude here. I have gone to the trouble of testing some of my favorite " emergency " foods so I can know how they behave. My standard middle-of-the-night emergency food is chocolate covered raisins. I could eat my weight in 'em but I have iron clad self control soooooo.... :-) They work almost as fast as glucose tabs and darn sure taste a lot better. --- De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Except that most newbies & sometimes others (me) DON " T have " iron clad control " & having stuff around that can do damage to a dm eating plan is prob not such a good idea. I apologize for " shouting " at Kathy but I do not take back one thing. One popsicle would/shd have been enough to bring her back to normal & that junk food is not something that she shd be eating. A much safer plan is to keep glucose tabs for lows till she has developed your " iron clad control " cappie Greater Boston Area T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E, Policosanol, fish oil cap, fresh flax seed, multi vitamin, Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg 5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309) 5' tall /age 67, cappie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 >Except that most newbies & sometimes others (me) DON " T have " iron clad >control " & having stuff around that can do damage to a dm eating >plan is prob not such a good idea. Je-sus C-rist, is this list becomming nit-pick anonymous or what? I hope you just had a bad day, Crabbie..... Even so, projecting your character flaws onto others really isn't good practice. > >I apologize for " shouting " at Kathy but I do not take back one thing. >One popsicle would/shd have been enough to bring her back to normal & >that junk food is not something that she shd be eating. A much safer >plan is to keep glucose tabs for lows till she has developed your " iron >clad control " Really? Well let's do an analysis. To refresh our memories, here is her original post: > I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I was > awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat some > potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. I > ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and louder > so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it was 63. > So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low is too > low? Rather than knee-jerk or guess I went to the Popsicle web site here: http://www.icecreamusa.com/product/results.asp to see just what kind of carbs a Popsicle has. I could not find a " root beer float " so I looked at several others. Specifically the " red white and blue " which has 11 carbs, and the ACE juice pops which have 12. Hmmm, looks like a Popsicle has about the same carbs as a glucose tab. And a darn sight better tasting. The first thing is obvious. One popsicle would NOT have brought her up to a normal BG level. So let's see how what she did stacks up. I don't know her sensitivity factors so I'll use mine. One carb raises my BG about 1 point. She ate between 33 and 36 carbs' worth of popsicles so her BG would have been raised by, let's say and average of 35 points. Starting with a reading of 63, 63 + 35 = 98. Looks to me like she did a pretty damned fine job of guestimating how many to eat. At 40 calories per Popsicle, that's 120 calories. Not the best but not terrible. My DEX4 glucose tabs have 15 calories per pill so they definitely win the calorie race. The chips? Dunno. Lay's says that the classic chips have 15 grams of carb per ounce. For reference, we sell the large single serve bags in my restaurant that hold 1.25 oz. Regular bags are 1 oz. No idea how much she ate but it's unlikely she sent her BG into an area of serious concern, unless she ate a jumbo bag. So if we summarize, the first pop on top of an unknown BG brought her up to 63. If her body's response is similar to mine, that means that she was really low, probably below 50. Yep, that voice was a'talkin'. The three subsequent pops brought her up to just about perfect. The chips were too much, but not badly so. So you jumped down her throat for her basically nailing the correction pretty close to perfect, even if it probably was by accident this time. Nice job. Kathleen, you really do need to read the labels and pay attention. It looks like those popsicles were just about the perfect sugar source for your problem but you and I know you just got lucky this time. You're not a type 1 so you don't need super-fast correction. Even if the popsicle is a little slower than a glucose tab (something I doubt), it got the job done and the carb dose was almost the same as a glucose tab. You know, in the end, nobody really cares about you other than yourself and nobody's going to make you eat a diabetes-healthy diet. And odds are, if your hubby is eating as you say he is, nobody's going to be there to take care of you when you are blind, crippled, on dialysis or worse after you don't comply. Only YOU can make yourself do it. You got lucky this time that you grabbed the right food but what about next time? Or when you pig out when your BG is NOT low? Discipline seems to be a dirty word in this no-fault society we live in but it really comes down to that. You and no one else can discipline yourself. The choice is yours and yours alone. Simple as that. --- De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 One thing that is very tasteful and 30 grams is no sugar added fruit popcycles. A major brand but cannot think of it right now and comes 3 in a box I think. It is very good and you do know at least how much. ml cappie@... wrote: > > Except that most newbies & sometimes others (me) DON " T have " iron clad > control " & having stuff around that can do damage to a dm eating > plan is prob not such a good idea. > > I apologize for " shouting " at Kathy but I do not take back one thing. > One popsicle would/shd have been enough to bring her back to normal & > that junk food is not something that she shd be eating. A much safer > plan is to keep glucose tabs for lows till she has developed your " iron > clad control " > > cappie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 The problem with using pretested favorite foods (such as chocolate covered raisins) for bringing up hyperglycemia is resisting the temptation to eat MORE than the exact amount needed. Not everyone is able to achieve iron-clad control. So for those who can't do this, it's better not to have those foods around the house, IMHO. Vicki, who has been known to eat a small part of a biscotti to bring up a low but DOES have iron clad discipline... Re: this morning > On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:30:30 -0700, " Jan Haney " > wrote: > >>Its okay Kathleen, I too would opt for something good and sweet for a >>low. My philosophy is " If I'm gonna have the after effects of a low >>then I'm gonna do something to enjoy it. " That is just my opinion and >>I am welcome to it. LOL > > Yup, same attitude here. I have gone to the trouble of testing some > of my favorite " emergency " foods so I can know how they behave. My > standard middle-of-the-night emergency food is chocolate covered > raisins. I could eat my weight in 'em but I have iron clad self > control soooooo.... :-) They work almost as fast as glucose tabs and > darn sure taste a lot better. > > > > --- > De Armond > See my website for my current email address > http://www.johngsbbq.com > Cleveland, Occupied TN > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 It's wonderful when we can all be supportive and caring and gentle. Sometimes it gets difficult. Especially when the same person has the same type of problem over and over, and only runs to the list for " support " AFTER having caused him/herself yet another bg problem. It is quite frustrating to some who try to help to find that their considerable experience and advice are being completely ignored, or at least seem to be ignored, by someone who is apparently making no real effort to control bg, but who keeps coming back to the list for some kind of support or sympathy after having yet another self-induced hypo or hyper. We ALL could use some support - the newbie who is constantly having the same problem could, for example, try supporting the supporters by reporting back with what efforts have been made to achieve control, what dietary recommendations have been put into effect, and by explaining what happened to cause the low bg in the first place - probably another dietary excursion - the very kind s/he has been warned off of repeatedly in the recent past. Respect is a two-way street. Lecture over, CarolR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 > So for those who can't do this, it's > better not to have those foods around the house, IMHO. For those of us who live alone, that's easy. But a lot of people have families and it's not right to expect the rest of the family to give up carbs because we do. Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 > quite frustrating to some who try to help to find that their > considerable experience and advice are being completely ignored, or at > least seem to be ignored, by someone who is apparently making no real > effort to control Now you know how MDs must feel telling people to stop smoking. When I went back to my doctor for the first visit after Dx, he looked at my chart and said, aghast, " Why you've actually lost weight!! " I said I thought that was what I was supposed to do and he said yes, but no one ever does. Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Oh Gretchen you've been able to lose some more weight--how I envy you. Congrats! cappie Greater Boston Area T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu 50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag, low dose Biotin, full spectrum E, Policosanol, fish oil cap, fresh flax seed, multi vitamin, Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg 5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309) 5' tall /age 67, cappie@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 That's true, of course. My son was a teenager when I was dx'd. During the times when I was in control, I managed the bringing-home-carb problem by not bringing home my favorites. If chips came home, it wouldn't be the kind I liked especially; ice cream, cookies the same way. Lots of kinds of carbs aren't trigger foods for me .. like bread, potatoes, etc .. so those weren't ever a problem. Suzz ---------- > > For those of us who live alone, that's easy. But a lot of people have > families and it's not right to expect the rest of the family to give up > carbs because we do. > > Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Thank you Jan and , I have to say that even though I ate all that, it was only 163 when I was done with it. I had one Popsicle before I even took my BG because I was shaking so bad I wasn't even able to really think straight, I was just listening to the voice in my head. If I hadn't listened in the first place I probably would have worse off and gone even lower as once I get out of bed it drops fast. If you all don't like what I eat oh well. I know what my body will react to the fastest. I usually only eat a hand full of chips but I ate what the voice told me to and as much as it told me to. I guess at this point I should let you all know I am Native American and have inherited the ability to use my spirit guides and they keep me out of harms way this is where that voice comes from. I am not trying to say that what I ate was right, but I do know that it worked for me. I have others in the house and can't just take everything out. I am not alone and have to please my husband. I can't force things on him that he doesn't want to do so I won't bring him up any more and won't bring up what I ate or what my numbers are. I will fade into the background now. Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 > How low is too low depends on you. I would LOVE to stay at 63 all the > time. I function well down to 50, whereas some people don't function > well below 80. It all depends on your body. >>>>>>>> The fact that one can function at a low BG doesn't mean it's a good place to be. Damage can be done at low BG, though different damage than that which occurs at a high BG. Mostly low BG affects the brain. I have no desire to get used to numbers lower than 80 or 85. Lately, I've had mild lows in the 60s, I've started not to notice them - no shaking or sweating or tingling/numb upper lip, and I don't like that, so it may be time to raise by target a bit so that I get the warning signs back. Non-diabetics don't normally find BG in the 60s. They seem to hover in the 70s when not eating and go up to no more than the 90s when eating, though some don't even hit that. 60s and below is low for anyone. Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Kathleen, sorry to hear that you have been made to feel so gunshy with respect to this group. There are very strong opinions here, but please don't give up on e-mail support groups completely. I am NOT suggesting that you leave, and do hope that you continue to participate, but have you checked out any of the other diabetes related groups on Yahoo? I belong to several that are very helpful, but have a milder " flavor " . --- In diabetes_int , " Dances With Eagles " > I am not trying to say that what I ate was right, but I do know that it > worked for me. I have others in the house and can't just take everything > out. I am not alone and have to please my husband. I can't force things on > him that he doesn't want to do so I won't bring him up any more and won't > bring up what I ate or what my numbers are. I will fade into the background > now. > > Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Stacey, in my experience of two non DMers and their bgs, Joe and my son, I found their fasting bgs always at 65. No variance in them, no meter variance. Of course, these were occasional tests. At 65 my son was a bit cranky, but that could be attributed to being up earlier than he wanted and being hungry. At 65 Joe was neither cranky nor hungry. And while I am here, I want to say I do not use glucose tabs. Might as well be eating a giant Tums. I carry jelly beans with me whenever I leave the house, they work as well and quickly as glucose tabs and I know how many I need. At home, it depends on what is in the house. I have used dried figs, TJ's cinnamon bread straight out of the freezer (and believe me that is fast!), Joe's cokes, and, of course, ice cream. I do not roller coaster. Helen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 > Stacey, in my experience of two non DMers and their bgs, Joe and my son, > I found their fasting bgs always at 65. What are their postprandial numbers? Gretchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:47:09 -0400, " Gretchen " wrote: >> quite frustrating to some who try to help to find that their >> considerable experience and advice are being completely ignored, or at >> least seem to be ignored, by someone who is apparently making no real >> effort to control > >Now you know how MDs must feel telling people to stop smoking. yup. Same with my employees. Tell 'em once, tell 'em twice, then remind one's self that everyone has free will and forget about it. > >When I went back to my doctor for the first visit after Dx, he looked at my >chart and said, aghast, " Why you've actually lost weight!! " > >I said I thought that was what I was supposed to do and he said yes, but no >one ever does. Pretty much the identical happening at my first post Dx appointment. My doc told me that I was the best diabetic patient he'd ever had. I had to remind him that I was not his patient, that he was my consultant. That relationship works well for us :-) --- De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 There are hundreds of us on the list who have not been at all judgmental to you. I'm one of those. Sue On Tuesday, July 5, 2005, at 03:01 PM, Dances With Eagles wrote: > I did not come to the group for sympathy I wanted to know what was too > low > so I will be signing off now this group is too judgmental for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Sorry to see you Kathleen. We all have our off days and make statements in the wrong way and some people on any list seem to have to be self rightous. This has a good moderator and as for any list, take what you can and leave the rest. There are a lot of knowledgeable and nice people here. Very few post on most lists. I am sorry you feel so badly. And some people who seem unbending are also hard on themselves to keep those blankety blank numbers down. I wish I was that tough on myself. Wishing you the best if you leave. Lou Dances With Eagles wrote: > > I did not come to the group for sympathy I wanted to know what was too low > so I will be signing off now this group is too judgmental for me. > > > > Kathleen > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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