Re: this morning

[Guest guest]

Kathleen, congrats on checking your sugar before deciding that you

needed to eat. For lots of folks, a quick drop from high to normal

will feel just like a low.

How low is too low depends on you. I would LOVE to stay at 63 all the

time. I function well down to 50, whereas some people don't function

well below 80. It all depends on your body.

On a related note, do you carry anything that would be more diabetic

friendly than popcicles and chips for helping with lows? I have had

bood luck with glucose tabs, but it sometimes takes 3-5 to get my

sugar back up to where it needs to be.

>

>

> I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning

I was

> awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and

eat some

> potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up

fast. I

> ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and

louder

> so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it

was 63.

> So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low

is too

> low?

>

> Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Kathleen, when you " heard that voice inside telling you to eat some

chips, " did you test first?

Before you take something to bring your BGs up, you need to test first.

Don't assume you're low just because you feel low. This is especially

true for newbies, who often have been high for so long that when they

approach a good diabetic number, i.e. between 80 and 120, they often

feel like they're having a hypo when they actually aren't.

It's MUCH better to use glucose tabs -- they're cheap and taste like

candy but more importantly, they raise your BG the same amount,

consistently, which is not true of any food or juice.

For most type 2s that's 20 points, but better you should test yourself

when you're not low, take a BG reading then wait 10 minutes and start

doing a test every 5 minutes until you get 2 readings that are more or

less the same, about within 10 points).

You'll only need to do this test once because glucose tabs raise your BG

the same amount, consistently, as I said before.

It's also really better not to keep things such as chips or popsicles

around for any reason or to use to bring BGs up because the raise is NOT

consistent and it's easy to eat too much and go high, which can cause a

" rollercoaster " effect, where you go way high then way low. You don't

want to do this.

Vicki

this morning

>

>

> I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I

> was

> awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat

> some

> potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast.

> I

> ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and

> louder

> so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it

> was 63.

> So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low

> is too

> low?

>

> Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Once your BG hits 70, it's time to worry. Some people don't - but those people

are

generally those with *EXTREMELY* good control, and who are used to keeping their

BSs

low to begin with.

63 is definitely low. And, IMHO far too low to go back to sleep on!

Now, the thing is - how many carbs in that Popsicle, and the half a bag of

chips? More

than likely enough to send you soaring back up! A better method of treating lows

is with

1-3 glucose tablets which have a measured, easily controlled amount, of

fast-acting

glucose in them.

SulaBlue

>

>

> I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I was

> awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat some

> potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. I

> ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and louder

> so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it was 63.

> So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low is too

> low?

>

> Kathleen

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

GOOD GRIEF KATHLEEN, isn't that a bit overdoing it?????

Yes 63 is a bit low but not dangerous. ONE popcicle would have done the

trick but the better thing to keep on hand for lows is a bottle of

glucose tablets which are fairly inexpensive & can be bought in a

drugstore. In addition to giving you an KNOWN amount of glucose it

keeps you from having stuff that YOU SHOULD NOT BE EATING on hand in the

house.

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag,

low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg

5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309)

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

I agree with the folks who recommend glucose tabs instead of other

things, but if you don't have glucose tabs, then use whatever is

handy.

> GOOD GRIEF KATHLEEN, isn't that a bit overdoing it?????

>

> Yes 63 is a bit low but not dangerous. ONE popcicle would have done

the

> trick but the better thing to keep on hand for lows is a bottle of

> glucose tablets which are fairly inexpensive & can be bought in a

> drugstore. In addition to giving you an KNOWN amount of glucose it

> keeps you from having stuff that YOU SHOULD NOT BE EATING on hand in

the

> house.

>

>

> cappie

[Guest guest]

Its okay Kathleen, I too would opt for something good and sweet for a low. My

philosophy is " If I'm gonna have the after effects of a low then I'm gonna do

something to enjoy it. " That is just my opinion and I am welcome to it. LOL

Jan Haney

GOOD GRIEF KATHLEEN, isn't that a bit overdoing it?????

Yes 63 is a bit low but not dangerous. ONE popcicle would have done the

trick but the better thing to keep on hand for lows is a bottle of

glucose tablets which are fairly inexpensive & can be bought in a

drugstore. In addition to giving you an KNOWN amount of glucose it

keeps you from having stuff that YOU SHOULD NOT BE EATING on hand in the

house.

[Guest guest]

How low is too low is very dependent on where you normally run. I tend to

keep pretty close to 100, so 60 isn't too low but it is low. I don't worry

until I get to 55 or lower and get upset if I'm in the 40's...

As for what to eat... Eat what works best for you but in moderation so you

don't start the roller coaster...

this morning

I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I was

awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat some

potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. I

ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and louder

so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it was 63.

So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low is too

low?

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:30:30 -0700, " Jan Haney "

wrote:

>Its okay Kathleen, I too would opt for something good and sweet for a low. My

philosophy is " If I'm gonna have the after effects of a low then I'm gonna do

something to enjoy it. " That is just my opinion and I am welcome to it. LOL

Yup, same attitude here. I have gone to the trouble of testing some

of my favorite " emergency " foods so I can know how they behave. My

standard middle-of-the-night emergency food is chocolate covered

raisins. I could eat my weight in 'em but I have iron clad self

control soooooo.... :-) They work almost as fast as glucose tabs and

darn sure taste a lot better.

---

De Armond

See my website for my current email address

http://www.johngsbbq.com

Cleveland, Occupied TN

[Guest guest]

Except that most newbies & sometimes others (me) DON " T have " iron clad

control " & having stuff around that can do damage to a dm eating

plan is prob not such a good idea.

I apologize for " shouting " at Kathy but I do not take back one thing.

One popsicle would/shd have been enough to bring her back to normal &

that junk food is not something that she shd be eating. A much safer

plan is to keep glucose tabs for lows till she has developed your " iron

clad control "

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag,

low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg

5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309)

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

>Except that most newbies & sometimes others (me) DON " T have " iron clad

>control " & having stuff around that can do damage to a dm eating

>plan is prob not such a good idea.

Je-sus C-rist, is this list becomming nit-pick anonymous or what? I

hope you just had a bad day, Crabbie..... Even so, projecting your

character flaws onto others really isn't good practice.

>

>I apologize for " shouting " at Kathy but I do not take back one thing.

>One popsicle would/shd have been enough to bring her back to normal &

>that junk food is not something that she shd be eating. A much safer

>plan is to keep glucose tabs for lows till she has developed your " iron

>clad control "

Really? Well let's do an analysis. To refresh our memories, here is

her original post:

> I am back from our camping trip and have a question. This morning I was

> awakened around 5:30 with a voice inside telling me to get up and eat some

> potato chips. We keep them around for lows as they bring it up fast. I

> ignored and it tried to go back to sleep and it came more urgent and louder

> so I got up and ate a root beer float Popsicle and took my bg and it was 63.

> So I ate three more and half a bag of chips. The question is how low is too

> low?

Rather than knee-jerk or guess I went to the Popsicle web site here:

http://www.icecreamusa.com/product/results.asp

to see just what kind of carbs a Popsicle has. I could not find a

" root beer float " so I looked at several others. Specifically the

" red white and blue " which has 11 carbs, and the ACE juice pops which

have 12.

Hmmm, looks like a Popsicle has about the same carbs as a glucose tab.

And a darn sight better tasting. The first thing is obvious. One

popsicle would NOT have brought her up to a normal BG level.

So let's see how what she did stacks up.

I don't know her sensitivity factors so I'll use mine. One carb

raises my BG about 1 point. She ate between 33 and 36 carbs' worth of

popsicles so her BG would have been raised by, let's say and average

of 35 points. Starting with a reading of 63, 63 + 35 = 98. Looks to

me like she did a pretty damned fine job of guestimating how many to

eat.

At 40 calories per Popsicle, that's 120 calories. Not the best but

not terrible. My DEX4 glucose tabs have 15 calories per pill so they

definitely win the calorie race.

The chips? Dunno. Lay's says that the classic chips have 15 grams of

carb per ounce. For reference, we sell the large single serve bags in

my restaurant that hold 1.25 oz. Regular bags are 1 oz. No idea how

much she ate but it's unlikely she sent her BG into an area of serious

concern, unless she ate a jumbo bag.

So if we summarize, the first pop on top of an unknown BG brought her

up to 63. If her body's response is similar to mine, that means that

she was really low, probably below 50. Yep, that voice was a'talkin'.

The three subsequent pops brought her up to just about perfect. The

chips were too much, but not badly so.

So you jumped down her throat for her basically nailing the correction

pretty close to perfect, even if it probably was by accident this

time. Nice job.

Kathleen, you really do need to read the labels and pay attention. It

looks like those popsicles were just about the perfect sugar source

for your problem but you and I know you just got lucky this time.

You're not a type 1 so you don't need super-fast correction. Even if

the popsicle is a little slower than a glucose tab (something I

doubt), it got the job done and the carb dose was almost the same as a

glucose tab.

You know, in the end, nobody really cares about you other than

yourself and nobody's going to make you eat a diabetes-healthy diet.

And odds are, if your hubby is eating as you say he is, nobody's going

to be there to take care of you when you are blind, crippled, on

dialysis or worse after you don't comply. Only YOU can make yourself

do it. You got lucky this time that you grabbed the right food but

what about next time? Or when you pig out when your BG is NOT low?

Discipline seems to be a dirty word in this no-fault society we live

in but it really comes down to that. You and no one else can

discipline yourself. The choice is yours and yours alone. Simple as

that.

---

De Armond

See my website for my current email address

http://www.johngsbbq.com

Cleveland, Occupied TN

[Guest guest]

One thing that is very tasteful and 30 grams is no sugar added fruit popcycles.

A major

brand but cannot think of it right now and comes 3 in a box I think. It is very

good and

you do know at least how much.

ml

cappie@... wrote:

>

> Except that most newbies & sometimes others (me) DON " T have " iron clad

> control " & having stuff around that can do damage to a dm eating

> plan is prob not such a good idea.

>

> I apologize for " shouting " at Kathy but I do not take back one thing.

> One popsicle would/shd have been enough to bring her back to normal &

> that junk food is not something that she shd be eating. A much safer

> plan is to keep glucose tabs for lows till she has developed your " iron

> clad control "

>

> cappie

>

[Guest guest]

The problem with using pretested favorite foods (such as chocolate

covered raisins) for bringing up hyperglycemia is resisting the

temptation to eat MORE than the exact amount needed. Not everyone is

able to achieve iron-clad control. So for those who can't do this, it's

better not to have those foods around the house, IMHO.

Vicki, who has been known to eat a small part of a biscotti to bring up

a low but DOES have iron clad discipline...

Re: this morning

> On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:30:30 -0700, " Jan Haney "

> wrote:

>

>>Its okay Kathleen, I too would opt for something good and sweet for a

>>low. My philosophy is " If I'm gonna have the after effects of a low

>>then I'm gonna do something to enjoy it. " That is just my opinion and

>>I am welcome to it. LOL

>

> Yup, same attitude here. I have gone to the trouble of testing some

> of my favorite " emergency " foods so I can know how they behave. My

> standard middle-of-the-night emergency food is chocolate covered

> raisins. I could eat my weight in 'em but I have iron clad self

> control soooooo.... :-) They work almost as fast as glucose tabs and

> darn sure taste a lot better.

>

>

>

> ---

> De Armond

> See my website for my current email address

> http://www.johngsbbq.com

> Cleveland, Occupied TN

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's wonderful when we can all be supportive and caring and gentle.

Sometimes it gets difficult. Especially when the same person has the

same type of problem over and over, and only runs to the list for

" support " AFTER having caused him/herself yet another bg problem. It is

quite frustrating to some who try to help to find that their

considerable experience and advice are being completely ignored, or at

least seem to be ignored, by someone who is apparently making no real

effort to control bg, but who keeps coming back to the list for some

kind of support or sympathy after having yet another self-induced hypo

or hyper.

We ALL could use some support - the newbie who is constantly having

the same problem could, for example, try supporting the supporters by

reporting back with what efforts have been made to achieve control, what

dietary recommendations have been put into effect, and by explaining

what happened to cause the low bg in the first place - probably another

dietary excursion - the very kind s/he has been warned off of repeatedly

in the recent past. Respect is a two-way street.

Lecture over,

CarolR

[Guest guest]

> So for those who can't do this, it's

> better not to have those foods around the house, IMHO.

For those of us who live alone, that's easy. But a lot of people have

families and it's not right to expect the rest of the family to give up

carbs because we do.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

> quite frustrating to some who try to help to find that their

> considerable experience and advice are being completely ignored, or at

> least seem to be ignored, by someone who is apparently making no real

> effort to control

Now you know how MDs must feel telling people to stop smoking.

When I went back to my doctor for the first visit after Dx, he looked at my

chart and said, aghast, " Why you've actually lost weight!! "

I said I thought that was what I was supposed to do and he said yes, but no

one ever does.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Oh Gretchen you've been able to lose some more weight--how I envy you.

Congrats!

cappie

Greater Boston Area

T-2 10/02 5/05 A1c: 5.3 = 111 mean glu

50-100 carb diet, walking, Metformin

ALA/EPO, ALC, Vit C, Calc/mag,

low dose Biotin, full spectrum E,

Policosanol, fish oil cap,

fresh flax seed, multi vitamin,

Lovastatin 40 mg/coQ10 100mg, Enalapril 10 mg

5/05:140 lbs (highest weight 309)

5' tall /age 67,

cappie@...

[Guest guest]

That's true, of course. My son was a teenager when I was dx'd. During

the times when I was in control, I managed the bringing-home-carb

problem by not bringing home my favorites. If chips came home, it

wouldn't be the kind I liked especially; ice cream, cookies the same way.

Lots of kinds of carbs aren't trigger foods for me .. like bread,

potatoes, etc .. so those weren't ever a problem.

Suzz

----------

>

> For those of us who live alone, that's easy. But a lot of people have

> families and it's not right to expect the rest of the family to give up

> carbs because we do.

>

> Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jan and ,

I have to say that even though I ate all that, it was only 163 when I was

done with it. I had one Popsicle before I even took my BG because I was

shaking so bad I wasn't even able to really think straight, I was just

listening to the voice in my head. If I hadn't listened in the first place I

probably would have worse off and gone even lower as once I get out of bed

it drops fast.

If you all don't like what I eat oh well. I know what my body will react to

the fastest. I usually only eat a hand full of chips but I ate what the

voice told me to and as much as it told me to. I guess at this point I

should let you all know I am Native American and have inherited the ability

to use my spirit guides and they keep me out of harms way this is where that

voice comes from.

I am not trying to say that what I ate was right, but I do know that it

worked for me. I have others in the house and can't just take everything

out. I am not alone and have to please my husband. I can't force things on

him that he doesn't want to do so I won't bring him up any more and won't

bring up what I ate or what my numbers are. I will fade into the background

now.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

> How low is too low depends on you. I would LOVE to stay at 63 all the

> time. I function well down to 50, whereas some people don't function

> well below 80. It all depends on your body.

>>>>>>>>

The fact that one can function at a low BG doesn't mean it's a good

place to be. Damage can be done at low BG, though different damage

than that which occurs at a high BG. Mostly low BG affects the brain.

I have no desire to get used to numbers lower than 80 or 85. Lately,

I've had mild lows in the 60s, I've started not to notice them - no

shaking or sweating or tingling/numb upper lip, and I don't like that,

so it may be time to raise by target a bit so that I get the warning

signs back.

Non-diabetics don't normally find BG in the 60s. They seem to hover in

the 70s when not eating and go up to no more than the 90s when eating,

though some don't even hit that. 60s and below is low for anyone.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

Kathleen, sorry to hear that you have been made to feel so gunshy with

respect to this group. There are very strong opinions here, but please

don't give up on e-mail support groups completely. I am NOT suggesting

that you leave, and do hope that you continue to participate, but have

you checked out any of the other diabetes related groups on Yahoo? I

belong to several that are very helpful, but have a milder " flavor " .

--- In diabetes_int , " Dances With Eagles "

> I am not trying to say that what I ate was right, but I do know that

it

> worked for me. I have others in the house and can't just take

everything

> out. I am not alone and have to please my husband. I can't force

things on

> him that he doesn't want to do so I won't bring him up any more and

won't

> bring up what I ate or what my numbers are. I will fade into the

background

> now.

>

> Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Stacey, in my experience of two non DMers and their bgs, Joe and my son,

I found their fasting bgs always at 65. No variance in them, no meter

variance. Of course, these were occasional tests. At 65 my son was a

bit cranky, but that could be attributed to being up earlier than he

wanted and being hungry.

At 65 Joe was neither cranky nor hungry.

And while I am here, I want to say I do not use glucose tabs. Might as

well be eating a giant Tums. I carry jelly beans with me whenever I

leave the house, they work as well and quickly as glucose tabs and I know

how many I need. At home, it depends on what is in the house. I have

used dried figs, TJ's cinnamon bread straight out of the freezer (and

believe me that is fast!), Joe's cokes, and, of course, ice cream. I do

not roller coaster.

Helen

[Guest guest]

> Stacey, in my experience of two non DMers and their bgs, Joe and my son,

> I found their fasting bgs always at 65.

What are their postprandial numbers?

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:47:09 -0400, " Gretchen "

wrote:

>> quite frustrating to some who try to help to find that their

>> considerable experience and advice are being completely ignored, or at

>> least seem to be ignored, by someone who is apparently making no real

>> effort to control

>

>Now you know how MDs must feel telling people to stop smoking.

yup. Same with my employees. Tell 'em once, tell 'em twice, then

remind one's self that everyone has free will and forget about it.

>

>When I went back to my doctor for the first visit after Dx, he looked at my

>chart and said, aghast, " Why you've actually lost weight!! "

>

>I said I thought that was what I was supposed to do and he said yes, but no

>one ever does.

Pretty much the identical happening at my first post Dx appointment.

My doc told me that I was the best diabetic patient he'd ever had. I

had to remind him that I was not his patient, that he was my

consultant. That relationship works well for us :-)

---

De Armond

See my website for my current email address

http://www.johngsbbq.com

Cleveland, Occupied TN

[Guest guest]

There are hundreds of us on the list who have not been at all

judgmental to you.

I'm one of those. Sue

On Tuesday, July 5, 2005, at 03:01 PM, Dances With Eagles wrote:

> I did not come to the group for sympathy I wanted to know what was too

> low

> so I will be signing off now this group is too judgmental for me.

[Guest guest]

Sorry to see you Kathleen. We all have our off days and make statements in the

wrong way

and some people on any list seem to have to be self rightous. This has a good

moderator

and as for any list, take what you can and leave the rest. There are a lot of

knowledgeable and nice people here. Very few post on most lists. I am sorry you

feel so

badly. And some people who seem unbending are also hard on themselves to keep

those

blankety blank numbers down. I wish I was that tough on myself. Wishing you the

best if

you leave.

Lou

Dances With Eagles wrote:

>

> I did not come to the group for sympathy I wanted to know what was too low

> so I will be signing off now this group is too judgmental for me.

>

>

>

> Kathleen

>

>

>

>