RE: [Fwd: [BTLdiapering] OT: Motherhood Stores]

[Guest guest]

> Welcome to the list. It's great that some hospitals have started giving

> breastfeeding packs. There certainly are plenty of incentives for formula

> feeding.

I just have to tell you what they hand out at my hospital ... When I had my

youngest, who's almost a year old, I was handed a " Breastfeeding Success

Kit " . I was *so* thrilled -- until I opened it. Inside was the usual

formula and bottle, but I didn't realize it until *after* I'd left,

otherwise, I would've raised a stink! Here I was, thinking they were

breastfeeding-friendly! Who labels a bag of formula and a bottle as a

'Breastfeeding Success Kit'?? It's the worst thing you can have if you're

breastfeeding!

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

> Welcome to the list. It's great that some hospitals have started giving

> breastfeeding packs. There certainly are plenty of incentives for formula

> feeding.

I just have to tell you what they hand out at my hospital ... When I had my

youngest, who's almost a year old, I was handed a " Breastfeeding Success

Kit " . I was *so* thrilled -- until I opened it. Inside was the usual

formula and bottle, but I didn't realize it until *after* I'd left,

otherwise, I would've raised a stink! Here I was, thinking they were

breastfeeding-friendly! Who labels a bag of formula and a bottle as a

'Breastfeeding Success Kit'?? It's the worst thing you can have if you're

breastfeeding!

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

> Welcome to the list. It's great that some hospitals have started giving

> breastfeeding packs. There certainly are plenty of incentives for formula

> feeding.

I just have to tell you what they hand out at my hospital ... When I had my

youngest, who's almost a year old, I was handed a " Breastfeeding Success

Kit " . I was *so* thrilled -- until I opened it. Inside was the usual

formula and bottle, but I didn't realize it until *after* I'd left,

otherwise, I would've raised a stink! Here I was, thinking they were

breastfeeding-friendly! Who labels a bag of formula and a bottle as a

'Breastfeeding Success Kit'?? It's the worst thing you can have if you're

breastfeeding!

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

That is awful! I am so glad I didn't get that at the hospital I delivered my last two. We have one hospital here in Edmonton (The Gray Nun) which is working towards being labeled "Breastfeeding Friendly". A girlfriend of mine recently gave birth there and there are signs in every room explaining what the "Breastfeeding Friendly Hospital Initiative" is. Only one hospital in Canada has the label so far, it's in Quebec.

Michele

I just have to tell you what they hand out at my hospital ... When I had myyoungest, who's almost a year old, I was handed a "Breastfeeding SuccessKit". I was *so* thrilled -- until I opened it. Inside was the usualformula and bottle, but I didn't realize it until *after* I'd left,otherwise, I would've raised a stink! Here I was, thinking they werebreastfeeding-friendly! Who labels a bag of formula and a bottle as a'Breastfeeding Success Kit'?? It's the worst thing you can have if you'rebreastfeeding!Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

That is awful! I am so glad I didn't get that at the hospital I delivered my last two. We have one hospital here in Edmonton (The Gray Nun) which is working towards being labeled "Breastfeeding Friendly". A girlfriend of mine recently gave birth there and there are signs in every room explaining what the "Breastfeeding Friendly Hospital Initiative" is. Only one hospital in Canada has the label so far, it's in Quebec.

Michele

I just have to tell you what they hand out at my hospital ... When I had myyoungest, who's almost a year old, I was handed a "Breastfeeding SuccessKit". I was *so* thrilled -- until I opened it. Inside was the usualformula and bottle, but I didn't realize it until *after* I'd left,otherwise, I would've raised a stink! Here I was, thinking they werebreastfeeding-friendly! Who labels a bag of formula and a bottle as a'Breastfeeding Success Kit'?? It's the worst thing you can have if you'rebreastfeeding!Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

That is awful! I am so glad I didn't get that at the hospital I delivered my last two. We have one hospital here in Edmonton (The Gray Nun) which is working towards being labeled "Breastfeeding Friendly". A girlfriend of mine recently gave birth there and there are signs in every room explaining what the "Breastfeeding Friendly Hospital Initiative" is. Only one hospital in Canada has the label so far, it's in Quebec.

Michele

I just have to tell you what they hand out at my hospital ... When I had myyoungest, who's almost a year old, I was handed a "Breastfeeding SuccessKit". I was *so* thrilled -- until I opened it. Inside was the usualformula and bottle, but I didn't realize it until *after* I'd left,otherwise, I would've raised a stink! Here I was, thinking they werebreastfeeding-friendly! Who labels a bag of formula and a bottle as a'Breastfeeding Success Kit'?? It's the worst thing you can have if you'rebreastfeeding!Thanks for letting me vent!

[Guest guest]

I am getting back into this discussion even though I said I wasnt...

> I got something like this with my first child too, but never connected

> that the breastfeeding literature was written by a formula company.

> Needless to say that my breastfeeding efforts ended in a nursing strike at

> 3 months with him.

I am curious here and please do not take my question the wrong way...Do

you blame the formula companies for the end of nursing? Couldnt you have

gone back to your hospital or LLL for help when things werent going right?

> Check for information about who published your literature. Ross Labs,

> Mead-Abbott and Wyeth are all formula manufacturers and have a vested

> interest in your breastfeeding not being successful. I'd take any info

> from them with a grain of salt and look for info endorsed by breastfeeding

> organizations instead!

I got a breastfeeding bag from the hospital with lansinoh (I think I actually

asked for that) breast pads and LOTS of coupons for diapers, dreft, lysol etc.

I've picked up every bit of literature I could find from various sources and

there hasnt been much difference between what the literature says. All the

literature I have including books and pamphlets pretty much all said the same

thing. ly, IME I found the pamphlets and magazines more helpful than

actual LLL meetings. (Although, I've said before I dont think my local group is

that great) I enjoy reading the magazines from the formula companies

because they have good information in them about other stuff. And I've

actually found some things in there that work about breastfeeding (tid bits on

how to keep daddy's involved is one example that has worked well for us). I

give the coupons to people I know that formula feed.

I just dont understand how the information matters as to who wrote it? I

understand that your saying your literature was incorrect...how was it

incorrect? Did you write to the literature companies and correct the

missinformation? How did they respond?

-Jen

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.TheElliotts.org

CUR #153 ICQ#875060

I was born Creative, not Patient.

[Guest guest]

I am getting back into this discussion even though I said I wasnt...

> I got something like this with my first child too, but never connected

> that the breastfeeding literature was written by a formula company.

> Needless to say that my breastfeeding efforts ended in a nursing strike at

> 3 months with him.

I am curious here and please do not take my question the wrong way...Do

you blame the formula companies for the end of nursing? Couldnt you have

gone back to your hospital or LLL for help when things werent going right?

> Check for information about who published your literature. Ross Labs,

> Mead-Abbott and Wyeth are all formula manufacturers and have a vested

> interest in your breastfeeding not being successful. I'd take any info

> from them with a grain of salt and look for info endorsed by breastfeeding

> organizations instead!

I got a breastfeeding bag from the hospital with lansinoh (I think I actually

asked for that) breast pads and LOTS of coupons for diapers, dreft, lysol etc.

I've picked up every bit of literature I could find from various sources and

there hasnt been much difference between what the literature says. All the

literature I have including books and pamphlets pretty much all said the same

thing. ly, IME I found the pamphlets and magazines more helpful than

actual LLL meetings. (Although, I've said before I dont think my local group is

that great) I enjoy reading the magazines from the formula companies

because they have good information in them about other stuff. And I've

actually found some things in there that work about breastfeeding (tid bits on

how to keep daddy's involved is one example that has worked well for us). I

give the coupons to people I know that formula feed.

I just dont understand how the information matters as to who wrote it? I

understand that your saying your literature was incorrect...how was it

incorrect? Did you write to the literature companies and correct the

missinformation? How did they respond?

-Jen

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.TheElliotts.org

CUR #153 ICQ#875060

I was born Creative, not Patient.

[Guest guest]

I am getting back into this discussion even though I said I wasnt...

> I got something like this with my first child too, but never connected

> that the breastfeeding literature was written by a formula company.

> Needless to say that my breastfeeding efforts ended in a nursing strike at

> 3 months with him.

I am curious here and please do not take my question the wrong way...Do

you blame the formula companies for the end of nursing? Couldnt you have

gone back to your hospital or LLL for help when things werent going right?

> Check for information about who published your literature. Ross Labs,

> Mead-Abbott and Wyeth are all formula manufacturers and have a vested

> interest in your breastfeeding not being successful. I'd take any info

> from them with a grain of salt and look for info endorsed by breastfeeding

> organizations instead!

I got a breastfeeding bag from the hospital with lansinoh (I think I actually

asked for that) breast pads and LOTS of coupons for diapers, dreft, lysol etc.

I've picked up every bit of literature I could find from various sources and

there hasnt been much difference between what the literature says. All the

literature I have including books and pamphlets pretty much all said the same

thing. ly, IME I found the pamphlets and magazines more helpful than

actual LLL meetings. (Although, I've said before I dont think my local group is

that great) I enjoy reading the magazines from the formula companies

because they have good information in them about other stuff. And I've

actually found some things in there that work about breastfeeding (tid bits on

how to keep daddy's involved is one example that has worked well for us). I

give the coupons to people I know that formula feed.

I just dont understand how the information matters as to who wrote it? I

understand that your saying your literature was incorrect...how was it

incorrect? Did you write to the literature companies and correct the

missinformation? How did they respond?

-Jen

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.TheElliotts.org

CUR #153 ICQ#875060

I was born Creative, not Patient.

[Guest guest]

Jen,

>I am curious here and please do not take my question the wrong way...Do

>you blame the formula companies for the end of nursing? Couldnt you have

>gone back to your hospital or LLL for help when things werent going right?

While I was in the hospital, I saw a video produced by Mead-,

although I didn't know who that was at the time. In the video, there were

directions on how to combine breastfeeding with bottle feeding, and a

little quip about how your body will adjust the milk you make around the

times you actually feed your baby. This could mean that if I only wanted

to nurse at 7 am, and then at 6 pm, my body would make milk at those times,

and wouldn't stop as long as I was nursing.

The hospital I gave birth in had forms to sign up for WIC and distributed

formula on the way out the door as the first WIC supply. (This practice

was stopped a year later.)

I also had subdued pressures from my extended family not to breastfeed my

baby. Everyone would leave the room when I began nursing. My mil visited

when he was two weeks old and brought cereal and spoons... which she fed to

him. I figured that since she had three children who were all grown and

healthy that she must know what she was doing. I never thought to ask her

if she ever breastfed them. I found out when I was nursing my second child

that she never had.

My brother actually told me that I wasn't welcome in his house if I was

nursing.

By the time I heard of LLL, I was watching my second child rapidly lose

weight. My pedi gave me the number of an LLL Leader and suggested I call

her. When I met the LLL Leader, she asked me about my breastfeeding

experience with my first child, and I had chalked up that whole experience

as him preferring a bottle over me. When we talked about it more, I

realized that what had happened was actually a nursing strike, yet I had

never heard the term. I figured that if my baby wasn't going to nurse, he

was still hungry, and I had all this formula and bottles that the hospital

gave me, so I asked my DH to feed the baby while I sat down and cried,

feeling like a failure.

Actually, more so than blaming the lack of information or even the

misinformation I had gotten at the hospital, I blamed the breast reduction

I had had two years prior to my first child's birth. After talking to the

LLL Leader and after she watched me nurse my second child and then continue

to pump another 2 oz, we decided it wasn't the breast reduction that ended

my first child's breastfeeding experience.

>I just dont understand how the information matters as to who wrote it? I

>understand that your saying your literature was incorrect...how was it

>incorrect? Did you write to the literature companies and correct the

>missinformation? How did they respond?

I have a copy of the tape I watched when I was in the hospital after the

birth of my first child. Even though it's narrated by an IBCLC, there's

alot of information blatantly missing, such as feeding cues, and there are

lots of things that are misleading, such as how your breasts really make

milk, and how to avoid nipple confusion.

When my second child was born, and after the LLL Leader and I resolved her

breastfeeding difficulties, I did finally feel empowered enough to write

letters. The hospital I gave birth to my first child was a military

hospital -- one that I had also worked in as a medic. The OB was a

full-bird colonel, and my labor nurse was a major. I had no choice, even

on the delivery table, but to follow orders. I did write a nasty-gram to

the formula company who sent me a whole case of RTF cans of formula a month

after my daughter's birth. It wasn't until I had to overcome many weeks of

problems with her that I realized the difference between the well-meaning

intentions of the hospital I had given birth to my son, and the actual

information that I needed to have in order to really breastfeed.

No, I don't blame the formula companies for not being able to breastfeed my

first child. I feel that it was my ignorance not to learn more about

breastfeeding before I had problems and sought help. I do wish that the

information that was so misleading wasn't available to women at all... even

the ones who want to bottle feed. I wish that breastfeeding in public was

never, ever viewed as a perverse act that causes people to shield their

eyes. I wish that every labor & delivery nurse, and every post-partum

nurse had zero biases against feeding methods and could *genuinely* help

women breastfeed without offering a bottle of formula at the first sign of

trouble. I wish that women had generations of other women to watch who

breastfed their own children, and their cousins, and their neighbors. I

wish that our society wasn't so into instant gratification and that bottle

feeding meant spending hours in the kitchen preparing a single bottle, and

that every drop mattered, like it does with breastfeeding. I wish that

women who formula feed their children would stop saying how they made an

informed choice, and that their children turned out " just fine, " because in

the end, they really aren't.

I really can't assign blame to any one. But I do know that who the message

comes from makes a more significant impact that you're willing to realize.

How many of those booklets on breastfeeding state that " breastmilk is best,

but... " or compare the difference between breastfeeding and formula as

though formula is the baseline, and breastfeeding offers more? How many

state that by NOT breastfeeding, your child will be more likely to have " X "

illness or disease? If it came from the presses of a formula company, or

even a magazine supported by formula ads, I'd go so far as to say

absolutely none of them. Not even LLL has gone so far as to say that

formula feeding is dangerous, but the International Lactation Consultants

Association has a booklet about the HAZARDS OF FORMULA.

THE HAZARDS OF FORMULA.

When have you ever really heard about this? I learned that the soy formula

I fed my son who was allergic to the dairy content of non-soy formula may

grow up and have genital/reproductive problems because of the

phytoestrogens (female plant hormones) in it. I learned that when my third

child was born, because of his heart defect, bottle feeding him (whether

formula or EBM) would cause a strain on his heart-lung functions. I had

always thought that bottle feeding a baby would be easier for the baby, but

not so. I learned that my second child, who had severe jaundice, was more

at risk with each bottle of formula I gave her, while I thought I just

wasn't able to produce my own milk, because it took so much longer to pass

through her body and remove the bilirubin from her bowels.

I never knew these things until AFTER I faced a problem breastfeeding my

children, and until AFTER this LLL Leader decided that I could handle this

information. She was concerned that I might not take this information

well, or that it might make me feel guilty. This LLL Leader is now one of

my closest friends, because of our openness.

And yes, I did call the hospital... They suggested that I feed my child a

bottle of FLAT 7-UP! until he was interested in breastfeeding... that he

would eventually get hungry and would nurse. When my daughter had orange

dust in her diaper from being severely jaundiced, I called the hospital I

gave birth to her and spoke to a nursery nurse. THEY suggested I give her

FLAT 7-UP too! These are two different hospitals in two different

states. Neither of them had any useful information about breastfeeding,

and neither of them referred me to LLL. Even my first child's pedi, when I

saw her at his 3-month check-up and told her that he had stopped nursing,

she didn't refer me to LLL, she just said that he had gotten all the

benefit of breastmilk by then anyways.

With all the potential misinformation out there, given by trained

professionals, I think it absolutely matters that they aren't sending women

home with booklets written by formula companies. That's the first place I

looked for help when I needed it, and it wasn't the information I needed.

[Guest guest]

Howell wrote:

> I wish that

> women who formula feed their children would stop saying how they made an

> informed choice, and that their children turned out " just fine, " because in

> the end, they really aren't.

Kindness??

Margaret

[Guest guest]

Howell wrote:

> I wish that

> women who formula feed their children would stop saying how they made an

> informed choice, and that their children turned out " just fine, " because in

> the end, they really aren't.

Kindness??

Margaret

[Guest guest]

Howell wrote:

> I wish that

> women who formula feed their children would stop saying how they made an

> informed choice, and that their children turned out " just fine, " because in

> the end, they really aren't.

Kindness??

Margaret