Re: Sad Day in Ems

[Guest guest]

Amen! I also had my days in the 7th circle of hell called Rural / Metro. UGH!!

They do have some good PEOPLE, but their business practices are questionable, at

best. I had it so bad in the operation where I worked that I was crying and

throwing up before *every* shift for about 4 months. SO glad I managed to

escape with my patch and my sanity! I can kinda understand " Raven's " ravings...

I noticed that if you aren't in the " clique " it can be a more hostile

environment. Not that I agree necessarily with what she said in her post. I

can't qualify it since I was never in *her* operation or position. Simply

saying I understand her frustration. We all experience it at one time or

another...

-WalksAlone

Wayne Edgin wrote:

,

I hope it ruins Rural/Metro as a whole. They are

known for screwing people in a real harsh way.

--- Brown wrote:

> " Mr. Heffner, start making out the

> check..................... "

>

> Well, there's your problem right there. I wondered

> where that hatchet-man

> went. The original " meat in the seat " man himself. I

> hope this thing ruins

> MedStar. The people in Ft. Worth deserve better. I'm

> POSITIVE that they own

> some good people, and I'm in no way taking a swipe

> at them, but having

> worked under the BooMeister hisself once, I

> understand EVERYTHING I need to

> know about why things occurred the way they did.

> Sigh.....

> magnetass sends

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Amen! I also had my days in the 7th circle of hell called Rural / Metro. UGH!!

They do have some good PEOPLE, but their business practices are questionable, at

best. I had it so bad in the operation where I worked that I was crying and

throwing up before *every* shift for about 4 months. SO glad I managed to

escape with my patch and my sanity! I can kinda understand " Raven's " ravings...

I noticed that if you aren't in the " clique " it can be a more hostile

environment. Not that I agree necessarily with what she said in her post. I

can't qualify it since I was never in *her* operation or position. Simply

saying I understand her frustration. We all experience it at one time or

another...

-WalksAlone

Wayne Edgin wrote:

,

I hope it ruins Rural/Metro as a whole. They are

known for screwing people in a real harsh way.

--- Brown wrote:

> " Mr. Heffner, start making out the

> check..................... "

>

> Well, there's your problem right there. I wondered

> where that hatchet-man

> went. The original " meat in the seat " man himself. I

> hope this thing ruins

> MedStar. The people in Ft. Worth deserve better. I'm

> POSITIVE that they own

> some good people, and I'm in no way taking a swipe

> at them, but having

> worked under the BooMeister hisself once, I

> understand EVERYTHING I need to

> know about why things occurred the way they did.

> Sigh.....

> magnetass sends

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Amen! I also had my days in the 7th circle of hell called Rural / Metro. UGH!!

They do have some good PEOPLE, but their business practices are questionable, at

best. I had it so bad in the operation where I worked that I was crying and

throwing up before *every* shift for about 4 months. SO glad I managed to

escape with my patch and my sanity! I can kinda understand " Raven's " ravings...

I noticed that if you aren't in the " clique " it can be a more hostile

environment. Not that I agree necessarily with what she said in her post. I

can't qualify it since I was never in *her* operation or position. Simply

saying I understand her frustration. We all experience it at one time or

another...

-WalksAlone

Wayne Edgin wrote:

,

I hope it ruins Rural/Metro as a whole. They are

known for screwing people in a real harsh way.

--- Brown wrote:

> " Mr. Heffner, start making out the

> check..................... "

>

> Well, there's your problem right there. I wondered

> where that hatchet-man

> went. The original " meat in the seat " man himself. I

> hope this thing ruins

> MedStar. The people in Ft. Worth deserve better. I'm

> POSITIVE that they own

> some good people, and I'm in no way taking a swipe

> at them, but having

> worked under the BooMeister hisself once, I

> understand EVERYTHING I need to

> know about why things occurred the way they did.

> Sigh.....

> magnetass sends

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types of managers that

proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS generally uses people

as managers who have little, if any, true supervisory or business

training, we get what we ask for.

No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to think that EMS

should make money for any governmental entity is absurd. Our streets

departments don't make money - our school systems don't make money -

our police departments don't make money... but without them, a city

would be unable to attract the businesses and residents necessary to

generate revenues and make money as a whole.

EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run in-the-red so that

other parts of the fiscal system of government can attract the

resources they need to generate true revenue.

Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

Just my $.02.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types of managers that

proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS generally uses people

as managers who have little, if any, true supervisory or business

training, we get what we ask for.

No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to think that EMS

should make money for any governmental entity is absurd. Our streets

departments don't make money - our school systems don't make money -

our police departments don't make money... but without them, a city

would be unable to attract the businesses and residents necessary to

generate revenues and make money as a whole.

EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run in-the-red so that

other parts of the fiscal system of government can attract the

resources they need to generate true revenue.

Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

Just my $.02.

Mike

[Guest guest]

F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it was

designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

with a lot of safeguards and more hands on management.

But that point[management] would be like pulling teeth

from a

rabid dog. You will get bitten.

--- Mike wrote:

> Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types

> of managers that

> proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> generally uses people

> as managers who have little, if any, true

> supervisory or business

> training, we get what we ask for.

>

> No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> think that EMS

> should make money for any governmental entity is

> absurd. Our streets

> departments don't make money - our school systems

> don't make money -

> our police departments don't make money... but

> without them, a city

> would be unable to attract the businesses and

> residents necessary to

> generate revenues and make money as a whole.

>

> EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> in-the-red so that

> other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> attract the

> resources they need to generate true revenue.

>

> Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

>

> Just my $.02.

>

> Mike

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it was

designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

with a lot of safeguards and more hands on management.

But that point[management] would be like pulling teeth

from a

rabid dog. You will get bitten.

--- Mike wrote:

> Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types

> of managers that

> proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> generally uses people

> as managers who have little, if any, true

> supervisory or business

> training, we get what we ask for.

>

> No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> think that EMS

> should make money for any governmental entity is

> absurd. Our streets

> departments don't make money - our school systems

> don't make money -

> our police departments don't make money... but

> without them, a city

> would be unable to attract the businesses and

> residents necessary to

> generate revenues and make money as a whole.

>

> EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> in-the-red so that

> other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> attract the

> resources they need to generate true revenue.

>

> Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

>

> Just my $.02.

>

> Mike

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it was

designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

with a lot of safeguards and more hands on management.

But that point[management] would be like pulling teeth

from a

rabid dog. You will get bitten.

--- Mike wrote:

> Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types

> of managers that

> proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> generally uses people

> as managers who have little, if any, true

> supervisory or business

> training, we get what we ask for.

>

> No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> think that EMS

> should make money for any governmental entity is

> absurd. Our streets

> departments don't make money - our school systems

> don't make money -

> our police departments don't make money... but

> without them, a city

> would be unable to attract the businesses and

> residents necessary to

> generate revenues and make money as a whole.

>

> EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> in-the-red so that

> other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> attract the

> resources they need to generate true revenue.

>

> Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

>

> Just my $.02.

>

> Mike

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in place to support such a

system. Living in central texas, I certainly agree that county-based

EMS systems have their strong points and seem to be a good balance for

serving the citizens of the region.

BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora of smaller cities in

Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be the best bet, or

should those cities which haven't instituted their own EMS system just

step up and do it?

I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just asking.

It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to MedStar, is having

continuing problems. So the question is, why is the Authority

allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

Mike

>

> F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

> known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it was

> designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> with a lot of safeguards and more hands on management.

> But that point[management] would be like pulling teeth

> from a

> rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types

> > of managers that

> > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > generally uses people

> > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > supervisory or business

> > training, we get what we ask for.

> >

> > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> > think that EMS

> > should make money for any governmental entity is

> > absurd. Our streets

> > departments don't make money - our school systems

> > don't make money -

> > our police departments don't make money... but

> > without them, a city

> > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > residents necessary to

> > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> >

> > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> > in-the-red so that

> > other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> > attract the

> > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> >

> > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> >

> > Just my $.02.

> >

> > Mike

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

The AMAA is governmental agency. Some of the smaller

cities,have gone ahead and started EMS

Services,Watauga,Hurst,and Euless. But they dropped

out of Med Star years ago. Now Haltom City and Saginaw

are exploring the options. But,again if The Authority

uses the Austin System to build on,they will mature

into a good system. If F.D. takes over,all of the

medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that take

time and money that the city just wont put out. But if

the ESD and the Authority merges,the revenue is there

to support the system,as it is a tax-based program

seperate from other agencies.Also,the Authority would

save 2 million a year as no more subsidized contract

with R/M would be in effect.

--- Mike wrote:

> The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in place

> to support such a

> system. Living in central texas, I certainly agree

> that county-based

> EMS systems have their strong points and seem to be

> a good balance for

> serving the citizens of the region.

>

> BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora of

> smaller cities in

> Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be

> the best bet, or

> should those cities which haven't instituted their

> own EMS system just

> step up and do it?

>

> I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just

> asking.

>

> It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to

> MedStar, is having

> continuing problems. So the question is, why is the

> Authority

> allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

>

> Mike

>

>

> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:32:39 -0800 (PST), Wayne

> Edgin wrote:

> >

> > F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

> > known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> > the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it

> was

> > designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> > with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> management.

> > But that point[management] would be like pulling

> teeth

> > from a

> > rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> > --- Mike wrote:

> >

> > > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> types

> > > of managers that

> > > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > > generally uses people

> > > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > > supervisory or business

> > > training, we get what we ask for.

> > >

> > > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But,

> to

> > > think that EMS

> > > should make money for any governmental entity is

> > > absurd. Our streets

> > > departments don't make money - our school

> systems

> > > don't make money -

> > > our police departments don't make money... but

> > > without them, a city

> > > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > > residents necessary to

> > > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> > >

> > > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be

> run

> > > in-the-red so that

> > > other parts of the fiscal system of government

> can

> > > attract the

> > > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> > >

> > > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> > >

> > > Just my $.02.

> > >

> > > Mike

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

What type of agency are they? Are they appointed to a board, or

elected? Who appoints them? In other words, how do you put pressure

on THEM to change things?

Mike

>

> The AMAA is governmental agency. Some of the smaller

> cities,have gone ahead and started EMS

> Services,Watauga,Hurst,and Euless. But they dropped

> out of Med Star years ago. Now Haltom City and Saginaw

> are exploring the options. But,again if The Authority

> uses the Austin System to build on,they will mature

> into a good system. If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that take

> time and money that the city just wont put out. But if

> the ESD and the Authority merges,the revenue is there

> to support the system,as it is a tax-based program

> seperate from other agencies.Also,the Authority would

> save 2 million a year as no more subsidized contract

> with R/M would be in effect.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in place

> > to support such a

> > system. Living in central texas, I certainly agree

> > that county-based

> > EMS systems have their strong points and seem to be

> > a good balance for

> > serving the citizens of the region.

> >

> > BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora of

> > smaller cities in

> > Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be

> > the best bet, or

> > should those cities which haven't instituted their

> > own EMS system just

> > step up and do it?

> >

> > I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just

> > asking.

> >

> > It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to

> > MedStar, is having

> > continuing problems. So the question is, why is the

> > Authority

> > allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:32:39 -0800 (PST), Wayne

> > Edgin wrote:

> > >

> > > F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

> > > known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> > > the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it

> > was

> > > designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> > > with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> > management.

> > > But that point[management] would be like pulling

> > teeth

> > > from a

> > > rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> > > --- Mike wrote:

> > >

> > > > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> > types

> > > > of managers that

> > > > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > > > generally uses people

> > > > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > > > supervisory or business

> > > > training, we get what we ask for.

> > > >

> > > > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But,

> > to

> > > > think that EMS

> > > > should make money for any governmental entity is

> > > > absurd. Our streets

> > > > departments don't make money - our school

> > systems

> > > > don't make money -

> > > > our police departments don't make money... but

> > > > without them, a city

> > > > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > > > residents necessary to

> > > > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be

> > run

> > > > in-the-red so that

> > > > other parts of the fiscal system of government

> > can

> > > > attract the

> > > > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> > > >

> > > > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > > > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> > > >

> > > > Just my $.02.

> > > >

> > > > Mike

> > > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

What type of agency are they? Are they appointed to a board, or

elected? Who appoints them? In other words, how do you put pressure

on THEM to change things?

Mike

>

> The AMAA is governmental agency. Some of the smaller

> cities,have gone ahead and started EMS

> Services,Watauga,Hurst,and Euless. But they dropped

> out of Med Star years ago. Now Haltom City and Saginaw

> are exploring the options. But,again if The Authority

> uses the Austin System to build on,they will mature

> into a good system. If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that take

> time and money that the city just wont put out. But if

> the ESD and the Authority merges,the revenue is there

> to support the system,as it is a tax-based program

> seperate from other agencies.Also,the Authority would

> save 2 million a year as no more subsidized contract

> with R/M would be in effect.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in place

> > to support such a

> > system. Living in central texas, I certainly agree

> > that county-based

> > EMS systems have their strong points and seem to be

> > a good balance for

> > serving the citizens of the region.

> >

> > BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora of

> > smaller cities in

> > Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be

> > the best bet, or

> > should those cities which haven't instituted their

> > own EMS system just

> > step up and do it?

> >

> > I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just

> > asking.

> >

> > It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to

> > MedStar, is having

> > continuing problems. So the question is, why is the

> > Authority

> > allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:32:39 -0800 (PST), Wayne

> > Edgin wrote:

> > >

> > > F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

> > > known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> > > the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it

> > was

> > > designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> > > with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> > management.

> > > But that point[management] would be like pulling

> > teeth

> > > from a

> > > rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> > > --- Mike wrote:

> > >

> > > > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> > types

> > > > of managers that

> > > > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > > > generally uses people

> > > > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > > > supervisory or business

> > > > training, we get what we ask for.

> > > >

> > > > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But,

> > to

> > > > think that EMS

> > > > should make money for any governmental entity is

> > > > absurd. Our streets

> > > > departments don't make money - our school

> > systems

> > > > don't make money -

> > > > our police departments don't make money... but

> > > > without them, a city

> > > > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > > > residents necessary to

> > > > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be

> > run

> > > > in-the-red so that

> > > > other parts of the fiscal system of government

> > can

> > > > attract the

> > > > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> > > >

> > > > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > > > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> > > >

> > > > Just my $.02.

> > > >

> > > > Mike

> > > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

What type of agency are they? Are they appointed to a board, or

elected? Who appoints them? In other words, how do you put pressure

on THEM to change things?

Mike

>

> The AMAA is governmental agency. Some of the smaller

> cities,have gone ahead and started EMS

> Services,Watauga,Hurst,and Euless. But they dropped

> out of Med Star years ago. Now Haltom City and Saginaw

> are exploring the options. But,again if The Authority

> uses the Austin System to build on,they will mature

> into a good system. If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that take

> time and money that the city just wont put out. But if

> the ESD and the Authority merges,the revenue is there

> to support the system,as it is a tax-based program

> seperate from other agencies.Also,the Authority would

> save 2 million a year as no more subsidized contract

> with R/M would be in effect.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in place

> > to support such a

> > system. Living in central texas, I certainly agree

> > that county-based

> > EMS systems have their strong points and seem to be

> > a good balance for

> > serving the citizens of the region.

> >

> > BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora of

> > smaller cities in

> > Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be

> > the best bet, or

> > should those cities which haven't instituted their

> > own EMS system just

> > step up and do it?

> >

> > I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just

> > asking.

> >

> > It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to

> > MedStar, is having

> > continuing problems. So the question is, why is the

> > Authority

> > allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:32:39 -0800 (PST), Wayne

> > Edgin wrote:

> > >

> > > F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

> > > known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> > > the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it

> > was

> > > designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> > > with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> > management.

> > > But that point[management] would be like pulling

> > teeth

> > > from a

> > > rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> > > --- Mike wrote:

> > >

> > > > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> > types

> > > > of managers that

> > > > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > > > generally uses people

> > > > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > > > supervisory or business

> > > > training, we get what we ask for.

> > > >

> > > > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But,

> > to

> > > > think that EMS

> > > > should make money for any governmental entity is

> > > > absurd. Our streets

> > > > departments don't make money - our school

> > systems

> > > > don't make money -

> > > > our police departments don't make money... but

> > > > without them, a city

> > > > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > > > residents necessary to

> > > > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be

> > run

> > > > in-the-red so that

> > > > other parts of the fiscal system of government

> > can

> > > > attract the

> > > > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> > > >

> > > > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > > > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> > > >

> > > > Just my $.02.

> > > >

> > > > Mike

> > > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

>

> If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that take

> time and money that the city just wont put out.

My personal recommendation would be to not hire the MedStar medics

(and they couldn't, anyway, under Civil Service rules). My advice

would be to give the MedStar medics that want to time to apply with

FWFD under the Civil Service process and set the transition date far

enough out to hire and train enough FWFD staff as medics to simply

switch over in parallel. As FWFD brings up units, MedStar cuts units

until FWFD has enough to cover the city, and MedStar is gone. Of

course, you have to figure out county-area coverage, and smaller

cities need time to figure out what to do themselves. I'm not

suggesting an overnight cutover...

Mike

[Guest guest]

>

> If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that take

> time and money that the city just wont put out.

My personal recommendation would be to not hire the MedStar medics

(and they couldn't, anyway, under Civil Service rules). My advice

would be to give the MedStar medics that want to time to apply with

FWFD under the Civil Service process and set the transition date far

enough out to hire and train enough FWFD staff as medics to simply

switch over in parallel. As FWFD brings up units, MedStar cuts units

until FWFD has enough to cover the city, and MedStar is gone. Of

course, you have to figure out county-area coverage, and smaller

cities need time to figure out what to do themselves. I'm not

suggesting an overnight cutover...

Mike

[Guest guest]

>

> If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that take

> time and money that the city just wont put out.

My personal recommendation would be to not hire the MedStar medics

(and they couldn't, anyway, under Civil Service rules). My advice

would be to give the MedStar medics that want to time to apply with

FWFD under the Civil Service process and set the transition date far

enough out to hire and train enough FWFD staff as medics to simply

switch over in parallel. As FWFD brings up units, MedStar cuts units

until FWFD has enough to cover the city, and MedStar is gone. Of

course, you have to figure out county-area coverage, and smaller

cities need time to figure out what to do themselves. I'm not

suggesting an overnight cutover...

Mike

[Guest guest]

If the Authority had any brains they would place R/M

in default of their contract and either take over

or bring in another provider.PPI is operating EMSA in

OKC and Tulsa, and doing a damn fine job at it.There

are other options other than R/M.

--- Wayne Edgin wrote:

> The AMAA is governmental agency. Some of the smaller

> cities,have gone ahead and started EMS

> Services,Watauga,Hurst,and Euless. But they dropped

> out of Med Star years ago. Now Haltom City and

> Saginaw

> are exploring the options. But,again if The

> Authority

> uses the Austin System to build on,they will mature

> into a good system. If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that

> take

> time and money that the city just wont put out. But

> if

> the ESD and the Authority merges,the revenue is

> there

> to support the system,as it is a tax-based program

> seperate from other agencies.Also,the Authority

> would

> save 2 million a year as no more subsidized contract

> with R/M would be in effect.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in

> place

> > to support such a

> > system. Living in central texas, I certainly

> agree

> > that county-based

> > EMS systems have their strong points and seem to

> be

> > a good balance for

> > serving the citizens of the region.

> >

> > BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora

> of

> > smaller cities in

> > Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be

> > the best bet, or

> > should those cities which haven't instituted their

> > own EMS system just

> > step up and do it?

> >

> > I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just

> > asking.

> >

> > It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to

> > MedStar, is having

> > continuing problems. So the question is, why is

> the

> > Authority

> > allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:32:39 -0800 (PST), Wayne

> > Edgin wrote:

> > >

> > > F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a

> well

> > > known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> > > the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way

> it

> > was

> > > designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> > > with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> > management.

> > > But that point[management] would be like pulling

> > teeth

> > > from a

> > > rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> > > --- Mike wrote:

> > >

> > > > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> > types

> > > > of managers that

> > > > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > > > generally uses people

> > > > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > > > supervisory or business

> > > > training, we get what we ask for.

> > > >

> > > > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But,

> > to

> > > > think that EMS

> > > > should make money for any governmental entity

> is

> > > > absurd. Our streets

> > > > departments don't make money - our school

> > systems

> > > > don't make money -

> > > > our police departments don't make money... but

> > > > without them, a city

> > > > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > > > residents necessary to

> > > > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be

> > run

> > > > in-the-red so that

> > > > other parts of the fiscal system of government

> > can

> > > > attract the

> > > > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> > > >

> > > > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > > > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> > > >

> > > > Just my $.02.

> > > >

> > > > Mike

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

If the Authority had any brains they would place R/M

in default of their contract and either take over

or bring in another provider.PPI is operating EMSA in

OKC and Tulsa, and doing a damn fine job at it.There

are other options other than R/M.

--- Wayne Edgin wrote:

> The AMAA is governmental agency. Some of the smaller

> cities,have gone ahead and started EMS

> Services,Watauga,Hurst,and Euless. But they dropped

> out of Med Star years ago. Now Haltom City and

> Saginaw

> are exploring the options. But,again if The

> Authority

> uses the Austin System to build on,they will mature

> into a good system. If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that

> take

> time and money that the city just wont put out. But

> if

> the ESD and the Authority merges,the revenue is

> there

> to support the system,as it is a tax-based program

> seperate from other agencies.Also,the Authority

> would

> save 2 million a year as no more subsidized contract

> with R/M would be in effect.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in

> place

> > to support such a

> > system. Living in central texas, I certainly

> agree

> > that county-based

> > EMS systems have their strong points and seem to

> be

> > a good balance for

> > serving the citizens of the region.

> >

> > BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora

> of

> > smaller cities in

> > Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be

> > the best bet, or

> > should those cities which haven't instituted their

> > own EMS system just

> > step up and do it?

> >

> > I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just

> > asking.

> >

> > It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to

> > MedStar, is having

> > continuing problems. So the question is, why is

> the

> > Authority

> > allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:32:39 -0800 (PST), Wayne

> > Edgin wrote:

> > >

> > > F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a

> well

> > > known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> > > the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way

> it

> > was

> > > designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> > > with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> > management.

> > > But that point[management] would be like pulling

> > teeth

> > > from a

> > > rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> > > --- Mike wrote:

> > >

> > > > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> > types

> > > > of managers that

> > > > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > > > generally uses people

> > > > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > > > supervisory or business

> > > > training, we get what we ask for.

> > > >

> > > > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But,

> > to

> > > > think that EMS

> > > > should make money for any governmental entity

> is

> > > > absurd. Our streets

> > > > departments don't make money - our school

> > systems

> > > > don't make money -

> > > > our police departments don't make money... but

> > > > without them, a city

> > > > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > > > residents necessary to

> > > > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be

> > run

> > > > in-the-red so that

> > > > other parts of the fiscal system of government

> > can

> > > > attract the

> > > > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> > > >

> > > > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > > > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> > > >

> > > > Just my $.02.

> > > >

> > > > Mike

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

If the Authority had any brains they would place R/M

in default of their contract and either take over

or bring in another provider.PPI is operating EMSA in

OKC and Tulsa, and doing a damn fine job at it.There

are other options other than R/M.

--- Wayne Edgin wrote:

> The AMAA is governmental agency. Some of the smaller

> cities,have gone ahead and started EMS

> Services,Watauga,Hurst,and Euless. But they dropped

> out of Med Star years ago. Now Haltom City and

> Saginaw

> are exploring the options. But,again if The

> Authority

> uses the Austin System to build on,they will mature

> into a good system. If F.D. takes over,all of the

> medics at the Star will need Fire Certs,and that

> take

> time and money that the city just wont put out. But

> if

> the ESD and the Authority merges,the revenue is

> there

> to support the system,as it is a tax-based program

> seperate from other agencies.Also,the Authority

> would

> save 2 million a year as no more subsidized contract

> with R/M would be in effect.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > The point is - FWFD has the infrastructure in

> place

> > to support such a

> > system. Living in central texas, I certainly

> agree

> > that county-based

> > EMS systems have their strong points and seem to

> be

> > a good balance for

> > serving the citizens of the region.

> >

> > BUT, in Fort Worth, especially with the plethora

> of

> > smaller cities in

> > Tarrant County, would a county-wide EMS system be

> > the best bet, or

> > should those cities which haven't instituted their

> > own EMS system just

> > step up and do it?

> >

> > I don't live there, so I don't know - I'm just

> > asking.

> >

> > It's obvious that R/M, as a contracted provider to

> > MedStar, is having

> > continuing problems. So the question is, why is

> the

> > Authority

> > allowing it, and who are THEY responsible to?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:32:39 -0800 (PST), Wayne

> > Edgin wrote:

> > >

> > > F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a

> well

> > > known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> > > the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way

> it

> > was

> > > designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> > > with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> > management.

> > > But that point[management] would be like pulling

> > teeth

> > > from a

> > > rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> > > --- Mike wrote:

> > >

> > > > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> > types

> > > > of managers that

> > > > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > > > generally uses people

> > > > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > > > supervisory or business

> > > > training, we get what we ask for.

> > > >

> > > > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But,

> > to

> > > > think that EMS

> > > > should make money for any governmental entity

> is

> > > > absurd. Our streets

> > > > departments don't make money - our school

> > systems

> > > > don't make money -

> > > > our police departments don't make money... but

> > > > without them, a city

> > > > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > > > residents necessary to

> > > > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be

> > run

> > > > in-the-red so that

> > > > other parts of the fiscal system of government

> > can

> > > > attract the

> > > > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> > > >

> > > > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > > > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> > > >

> > > > Just my $.02.

> > > >

> > > > Mike

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Tarrant County has more municipalities than any other community in Texas.

Getting the 37-40 entities together (especially Fort Worth and Arlington)

will never happen (I was once involved in such an endeavor). Why should

Richland Hills, North Richland Hills, Bedford, Saginaw, Eagle Mountain,

Benbrook, and similar cities give up their autonomy to the AMAA when it

covers the poor performance, staffing shortages, morale issues at MedStar? A

county-wide service here would be great--but the PUM must be first

dismantled. Most likely, Rural Metro will be kept through the current

contract and ETEMS (Paramedics Plus) will get the contract. At least they

have a better track record at EMSA, Waco and Pinellas County. EMS will never

be a priority in Fort Worth. And for the FWFD, there was a recent call for a

vote of non-confidence in the new Fire Chief.

BEB

Re: Re: Sad Day in Ems

F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it was

designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

with a lot of safeguards and more hands on management.

But that point[management] would be like pulling teeth

from a

rabid dog. You will get bitten.

--- Mike wrote:

> Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types

> of managers that

> proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> generally uses people

> as managers who have little, if any, true

> supervisory or business

> training, we get what we ask for.

>

> No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> think that EMS

> should make money for any governmental entity is

> absurd. Our streets

> departments don't make money - our school systems

> don't make money -

> our police departments don't make money... but

> without them, a city

> would be unable to attract the businesses and

> residents necessary to

> generate revenues and make money as a whole.

>

> EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> in-the-red so that

> other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> attract the

> resources they need to generate true revenue.

>

> Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

>

> Just my $.02.

>

> Mike

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Tarrant County has more municipalities than any other community in Texas.

Getting the 37-40 entities together (especially Fort Worth and Arlington)

will never happen (I was once involved in such an endeavor). Why should

Richland Hills, North Richland Hills, Bedford, Saginaw, Eagle Mountain,

Benbrook, and similar cities give up their autonomy to the AMAA when it

covers the poor performance, staffing shortages, morale issues at MedStar? A

county-wide service here would be great--but the PUM must be first

dismantled. Most likely, Rural Metro will be kept through the current

contract and ETEMS (Paramedics Plus) will get the contract. At least they

have a better track record at EMSA, Waco and Pinellas County. EMS will never

be a priority in Fort Worth. And for the FWFD, there was a recent call for a

vote of non-confidence in the new Fire Chief.

BEB

Re: Re: Sad Day in Ems

F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it was

designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

with a lot of safeguards and more hands on management.

But that point[management] would be like pulling teeth

from a

rabid dog. You will get bitten.

--- Mike wrote:

> Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types

> of managers that

> proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> generally uses people

> as managers who have little, if any, true

> supervisory or business

> training, we get what we ask for.

>

> No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> think that EMS

> should make money for any governmental entity is

> absurd. Our streets

> departments don't make money - our school systems

> don't make money -

> our police departments don't make money... but

> without them, a city

> would be unable to attract the businesses and

> residents necessary to

> generate revenues and make money as a whole.

>

> EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> in-the-red so that

> other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> attract the

> resources they need to generate true revenue.

>

> Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

>

> Just my $.02.

>

> Mike

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Tarrant County has more municipalities than any other community in Texas.

Getting the 37-40 entities together (especially Fort Worth and Arlington)

will never happen (I was once involved in such an endeavor). Why should

Richland Hills, North Richland Hills, Bedford, Saginaw, Eagle Mountain,

Benbrook, and similar cities give up their autonomy to the AMAA when it

covers the poor performance, staffing shortages, morale issues at MedStar? A

county-wide service here would be great--but the PUM must be first

dismantled. Most likely, Rural Metro will be kept through the current

contract and ETEMS (Paramedics Plus) will get the contract. At least they

have a better track record at EMSA, Waco and Pinellas County. EMS will never

be a priority in Fort Worth. And for the FWFD, there was a recent call for a

vote of non-confidence in the new Fire Chief.

BEB

Re: Re: Sad Day in Ems

F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it was

designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

with a lot of safeguards and more hands on management.

But that point[management] would be like pulling teeth

from a

rabid dog. You will get bitten.

--- Mike wrote:

> Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the types

> of managers that

> proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> generally uses people

> as managers who have little, if any, true

> supervisory or business

> training, we get what we ask for.

>

> No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> think that EMS

> should make money for any governmental entity is

> absurd. Our streets

> departments don't make money - our school systems

> don't make money -

> our police departments don't make money... but

> without them, a city

> would be unable to attract the businesses and

> residents necessary to

> generate revenues and make money as a whole.

>

> EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> in-the-red so that

> other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> attract the

> resources they need to generate true revenue.

>

> Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

>

> Just my $.02.

>

> Mike

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

if medstar did pull out of tarrant county and someone else moved in, then like

every other turnover, wouldn't the same employees still work there? if that were

to happen,what would be the use of the turnover?

[Guest guest]

if medstar did pull out of tarrant county and someone else moved in, then like

every other turnover, wouldn't the same employees still work there? if that were

to happen,what would be the use of the turnover?

[Guest guest]

Point taken.And you are right on target.

--- " Bledsoe, DO "

wrote:

> Tarrant County has more municipalities than any

> other community in Texas.

> Getting the 37-40 entities together (especially Fort

> Worth and Arlington)

> will never happen (I was once involved in such an

> endeavor). Why should

> Richland Hills, North Richland Hills, Bedford,

> Saginaw, Eagle Mountain,

> Benbrook, and similar cities give up their autonomy

> to the AMAA when it

> covers the poor performance, staffing shortages,

> morale issues at MedStar? A

> county-wide service here would be great--but the PUM

> must be first

> dismantled. Most likely, Rural Metro will be kept

> through the current

> contract and ETEMS (Paramedics Plus) will get the

> contract. At least they

> have a better track record at EMSA, Waco and

> Pinellas County. EMS will never

> be a priority in Fort Worth. And for the FWFD, there

> was a recent call for a

> vote of non-confidence in the new Fire Chief.

>

> BEB

>

> Re: Re: Sad Day in Ems

>

>

> F.D. does not want that albatross. That is a well

> known fact.I think that Tarrant County ESD 1 and

> the AMAA need to merge and use Med Star the way it

> was

> designed,as a County-wide EMS System.But do it

> with a lot of safeguards and more hands on

> management.

> But that point[management] would be like pulling

> teeth

> from a

> rabid dog. You will get bitten.

> --- Mike wrote:

>

> > Any time EMS is focused on PROFIT, you get the

> types

> > of managers that

> > proiritize PROFIT over people. Being that EMS

> > generally uses people

> > as managers who have little, if any, true

> > supervisory or business

> > training, we get what we ask for.

> >

> > No, EMS cannot be a " red-ink " hemorrage. But, to

> > think that EMS

> > should make money for any governmental entity is

> > absurd. Our streets

> > departments don't make money - our school systems

> > don't make money -

> > our police departments don't make money... but

> > without them, a city

> > would be unable to attract the businesses and

> > residents necessary to

> > generate revenues and make money as a whole.

> >

> > EMS is a part, and it's a part designed to be run

> > in-the-red so that

> > other parts of the fiscal system of government can

> > attract the

> > resources they need to generate true revenue.

> >

> > Fort Worth would likely, at this point, be

> > best-served by FWFD taking over EMS.

> >

> > Just my $.02.

> >

> > Mike

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>