Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

[Guest guest]

My silence in the matter was to prevent you from further embracement on the

topic.

I don't know you or any thing about you so your taking what I said that was

tactful and true only servers an argument that is avoidable as no one used your

name in the comment as I am aware of. See the text below for proof provided by a

3rd party not me involving this thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

It is called the Cycle of Abuse. You might try google for more

information, or just call your local Child Protective Services and ask

them about it.

Carol

>

>

>

> > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators.

> >

> >

> > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up

> your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell

> you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to

> believe the latter.

> Ken

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----------

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My silence in the matter was to prevent you from further embracement on the

topic.

I don't know you or any thing about you so your taking what I said that was

tactful and true only servers an argument that is avoidable as no one used your

name in the comment as I am aware of. See the text below for proof provided by a

3rd party not me involving this thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

It is called the Cycle of Abuse. You might try google for more

information, or just call your local Child Protective Services and ask

them about it.

Carol

>

>

>

> > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators.

> >

> >

> > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up

> your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell

> you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to

> believe the latter.

> Ken

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----------

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Life sentence is eligible for parole in 40 years sir.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:51:18 -0000, Kenny Navarro

wrote:

>

> " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much

> of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to

> adequately judge your actions. <<<

>

> Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not

> emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions

> but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult?

Different set of psychological criteria. " Consent " requires a

different set of mental processes and understanding than the " simpler "

determination of whether or not something was right or wrong.

Also, for a child to be tried as an adult requires the approval of a

judge in a juvenile proceeding, so even when we attempt to try

children as adults, the process always begins in a juvenile setting.

Better question - why do we have a life sentence? What good does it

do someone to be locked away for life, and why should I as a taxpayer

fund it, or as a citizen allow it? If it's heinous enough to be

sentenced to life, why aren't we willing to execute them and get it

over with?

Our society rarely thinks through its conflicting positions - rather,

we just bolster the one we think we like the best. We've disregarded

the importance of philosophers, those who would make us think - much

like earlier greco-roman cultures, who followed the same pattern of

decline and destruction.

We could turn this around, but to do so requires a standard-bearer for

personal responsibility - someone that can be an example to others of

the true nature of personal responsibility.

With regards to this incident, I pose this philosophical question:

How can we work to prevent it from happening again? What would work,

what would make sense, and what is reasonable?

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Life sentence is eligible for parole in 40 years sir.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:51:18 -0000, Kenny Navarro

wrote:

>

> " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much

> of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to

> adequately judge your actions. <<<

>

> Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not

> emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions

> but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult?

Different set of psychological criteria. " Consent " requires a

different set of mental processes and understanding than the " simpler "

determination of whether or not something was right or wrong.

Also, for a child to be tried as an adult requires the approval of a

judge in a juvenile proceeding, so even when we attempt to try

children as adults, the process always begins in a juvenile setting.

Better question - why do we have a life sentence? What good does it

do someone to be locked away for life, and why should I as a taxpayer

fund it, or as a citizen allow it? If it's heinous enough to be

sentenced to life, why aren't we willing to execute them and get it

over with?

Our society rarely thinks through its conflicting positions - rather,

we just bolster the one we think we like the best. We've disregarded

the importance of philosophers, those who would make us think - much

like earlier greco-roman cultures, who followed the same pattern of

decline and destruction.

We could turn this around, but to do so requires a standard-bearer for

personal responsibility - someone that can be an example to others of

the true nature of personal responsibility.

With regards to this incident, I pose this philosophical question:

How can we work to prevent it from happening again? What would work,

what would make sense, and what is reasonable?

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Life sentence is eligible for parole in 40 years sir.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:51:18 -0000, Kenny Navarro

wrote:

>

> " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much

> of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to

> adequately judge your actions. <<<

>

> Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not

> emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions

> but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult?

Different set of psychological criteria. " Consent " requires a

different set of mental processes and understanding than the " simpler "

determination of whether or not something was right or wrong.

Also, for a child to be tried as an adult requires the approval of a

judge in a juvenile proceeding, so even when we attempt to try

children as adults, the process always begins in a juvenile setting.

Better question - why do we have a life sentence? What good does it

do someone to be locked away for life, and why should I as a taxpayer

fund it, or as a citizen allow it? If it's heinous enough to be

sentenced to life, why aren't we willing to execute them and get it

over with?

Our society rarely thinks through its conflicting positions - rather,

we just bolster the one we think we like the best. We've disregarded

the importance of philosophers, those who would make us think - much

like earlier greco-roman cultures, who followed the same pattern of

decline and destruction.

We could turn this around, but to do so requires a standard-bearer for

personal responsibility - someone that can be an example to others of

the true nature of personal responsibility.

With regards to this incident, I pose this philosophical question:

How can we work to prevent it from happening again? What would work,

what would make sense, and what is reasonable?

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

The over 100 messages on this ONE topic in just three days points up

what I've always said.

EMS folks have WAY too much time on their hands.

=Steve=

[Guest guest]

The over 100 messages on this ONE topic in just three days points up

what I've always said.

EMS folks have WAY too much time on their hands.

=Steve=

[Guest guest]

The over 100 messages on this ONE topic in just three days points up

what I've always said.

EMS folks have WAY too much time on their hands.

=Steve=

[Guest guest]

You are absolutely right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

Putting the blame on the victim is just plain wrong. Only the victim

knows

what was going through her mind at the time of the incident. She was

intimidated and cornered in the back of the rig by two OLDER males,

people

she was supposed to be able to trust. Why do you suppose the victim has

a

cell phone? My oldest daughter doesn't have one (doesn't WANT on,

either,

no matter how much I try.). The " it's the victim's fault " mindset

should

have gone out the window a LONG time ago. Just remember your opinion on

the

subject when it hits closer to home.

I agree with Gene on this one. I wish I was involved in this case (on

that

jury in my case), so I could lock those pieces of human excrement away,

too!

Barry

_____

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

going

to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and

understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or

call

911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing

that

I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the

ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the

only victim not the people.

[Guest guest]

You are absolutely right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

Putting the blame on the victim is just plain wrong. Only the victim

knows

what was going through her mind at the time of the incident. She was

intimidated and cornered in the back of the rig by two OLDER males,

people

she was supposed to be able to trust. Why do you suppose the victim has

a

cell phone? My oldest daughter doesn't have one (doesn't WANT on,

either,

no matter how much I try.). The " it's the victim's fault " mindset

should

have gone out the window a LONG time ago. Just remember your opinion on

the

subject when it hits closer to home.

I agree with Gene on this one. I wish I was involved in this case (on

that

jury in my case), so I could lock those pieces of human excrement away,

too!

Barry

_____

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you

going

to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and

understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or

call

911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing

that

I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the

ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the

only victim not the people.

[Guest guest]

Well said, and point well taken. But why should it take an event of this

magnitude to make us and a profession change our attitudes and practices? Are

there other possible practices that could potentially explode into a horrific

event like happened here? These are some of the things that we need to ask

ourselves. What happened, happened. For that I am truely saddened. But we

must move on and make some serious changes in the way we do our jobs; and most

importantly the way we think. We are professionals, whether or not we all " act "

like it or not, we are. We should present ourselves as such, and in keeping

with that we need to adapt to change. Change for the better; for ourselves, for

our profession, and for our patients.

Ron Derrick wrote:It will be another loss if EMS managers

across the State do not use this

event as a training tool to either review their ride-out policies and

procedures or to go through and re-educate their crews on the ride-out

policies and procedures and how to be careful in these types of situations.

We can either sit there and say, " Damn, that was a bad situation " and then

go on or we can learn from it and make appropriate changes to our policies.

if needed. I think the best policy is not to place your crews in this type

of situation and for your crews to be totally aware of what they say or do

in front of riders, men or women, minor or not.

Ron A. Derrick, LP NREMT-P

Director of Emergency Services

City of Fredericksburg

[Guest guest]

Well said, and point well taken. But why should it take an event of this

magnitude to make us and a profession change our attitudes and practices? Are

there other possible practices that could potentially explode into a horrific

event like happened here? These are some of the things that we need to ask

ourselves. What happened, happened. For that I am truely saddened. But we

must move on and make some serious changes in the way we do our jobs; and most

importantly the way we think. We are professionals, whether or not we all " act "

like it or not, we are. We should present ourselves as such, and in keeping

with that we need to adapt to change. Change for the better; for ourselves, for

our profession, and for our patients.

Ron Derrick wrote:It will be another loss if EMS managers

across the State do not use this

event as a training tool to either review their ride-out policies and

procedures or to go through and re-educate their crews on the ride-out

policies and procedures and how to be careful in these types of situations.

We can either sit there and say, " Damn, that was a bad situation " and then

go on or we can learn from it and make appropriate changes to our policies.

if needed. I think the best policy is not to place your crews in this type

of situation and for your crews to be totally aware of what they say or do

in front of riders, men or women, minor or not.

Ron A. Derrick, LP NREMT-P

Director of Emergency Services

City of Fredericksburg

[Guest guest]

Well said, and point well taken. But why should it take an event of this

magnitude to make us and a profession change our attitudes and practices? Are

there other possible practices that could potentially explode into a horrific

event like happened here? These are some of the things that we need to ask

ourselves. What happened, happened. For that I am truely saddened. But we

must move on and make some serious changes in the way we do our jobs; and most

importantly the way we think. We are professionals, whether or not we all " act "

like it or not, we are. We should present ourselves as such, and in keeping

with that we need to adapt to change. Change for the better; for ourselves, for

our profession, and for our patients.

Ron Derrick wrote:It will be another loss if EMS managers

across the State do not use this

event as a training tool to either review their ride-out policies and

procedures or to go through and re-educate their crews on the ride-out

policies and procedures and how to be careful in these types of situations.

We can either sit there and say, " Damn, that was a bad situation " and then

go on or we can learn from it and make appropriate changes to our policies.

if needed. I think the best policy is not to place your crews in this type

of situation and for your crews to be totally aware of what they say or do

in front of riders, men or women, minor or not.

Ron A. Derrick, LP NREMT-P

Director of Emergency Services

City of Fredericksburg

[Guest guest]

Even with this traffic, the list is still very, very lightweight

compared to many others.

Want to see heated? Read slashdot unmoderated (www.slashdot.com). I

have to set my filter to posts rated 3 or higher to get any use out of

that site...

Mike

>

> The over 100 messages on this ONE topic in just three days points up

> what I've always said.

> EMS folks have WAY too much time on their hands.

>

> =Steve=

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Even with this traffic, the list is still very, very lightweight

compared to many others.

Want to see heated? Read slashdot unmoderated (www.slashdot.com). I

have to set my filter to posts rated 3 or higher to get any use out of

that site...

Mike

>

> The over 100 messages on this ONE topic in just three days points up

> what I've always said.

> EMS folks have WAY too much time on their hands.

>

> =Steve=

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Even with this traffic, the list is still very, very lightweight

compared to many others.

Want to see heated? Read slashdot unmoderated (www.slashdot.com). I

have to set my filter to posts rated 3 or higher to get any use out of

that site...

Mike

>

> The over 100 messages on this ONE topic in just three days points up

> what I've always said.

> EMS folks have WAY too much time on their hands.

>

> =Steve=

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

Your post is quoted as saying " most sexual predator victims become

predators. " Defending your statement with something like you heard that

somewhere is a

cop-out.

If " most' " did become predators themselves, at some time the entire world

become

sexual predators. Think about it, and rethink your response.

In a message dated 1/17/05 8:40:31 AM Central Standard Time,

silsbeeems@... writes:

> Attend a seminary on the topic open a book on the topic read it for your

> self.

> sorry if I stepped on some ones toes but this is taught in classes on

> dealing with sexually abused children it is not something I made up even if

you

> don't like it.

>

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---

>

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

>

>

>

> > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators.

> >

> >

> > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up

> your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell

> you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to

> believe the latter.

> Ken

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

Your post is quoted as saying " most sexual predator victims become

predators. " Defending your statement with something like you heard that

somewhere is a

cop-out.

If " most' " did become predators themselves, at some time the entire world

become

sexual predators. Think about it, and rethink your response.

In a message dated 1/17/05 8:40:31 AM Central Standard Time,

silsbeeems@... writes:

> Attend a seminary on the topic open a book on the topic read it for your

> self.

> sorry if I stepped on some ones toes but this is taught in classes on

> dealing with sexually abused children it is not something I made up even if

you

> don't like it.

>

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---

>

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

>

>

>

> > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators.

> >

> >

> > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up

> your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell

> you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to

> believe the latter.

> Ken

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

Your post is quoted as saying " most sexual predator victims become

predators. " Defending your statement with something like you heard that

somewhere is a

cop-out.

If " most' " did become predators themselves, at some time the entire world

become

sexual predators. Think about it, and rethink your response.

In a message dated 1/17/05 8:40:31 AM Central Standard Time,

silsbeeems@... writes:

> Attend a seminary on the topic open a book on the topic read it for your

> self.

> sorry if I stepped on some ones toes but this is taught in classes on

> dealing with sexually abused children it is not something I made up even if

you

> don't like it.

>

>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---

>

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

>

>

>

> > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators.

> >

> >

> > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up

> your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell

> you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to

> believe the latter.

> Ken

>

>