Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

[Guest guest]

Andy says it like it is!!!

I concur in full. Particularly with the SSM portion. SSM is one of the most

blatantly flawed ideas that has ever been promulgated, yet, intelligent

people still support it. It cannot be supported. I don't care how much money

you make as an executive in a for profit service, SSM is flawed, and it cannot

be justified. You know who you are!

GG

>

> I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode

> is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor.

>

> Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to

> shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped.

> Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances.

>

> The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They

> are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar

> called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us

> to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and

> hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a

> good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at

> a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig,

> and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place.

>

> Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am

> ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am

> unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911

> ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit

> of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean

> streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she

> had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid

> do it, because she asked for a female crew.

>

> Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System

> Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall

> parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was

> trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured,

> least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say

> " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after

> I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking

> lot at 3 am? "   I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response

> times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working

> very well to begin with.

>

> That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have

> been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a

> position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she

> could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle

> appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with

> somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old

> does.

>

> No children on the ambulances, period.

>

> Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be

> common sense.

> magnetass sends

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> >

> >

> >  On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> >  wrote:

> >  >

> >  > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

> > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are

> > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy "

> > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for

> > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one.

> > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the

> > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that

> > age is the only victim not the people.

> >

> >  ************

> >

> >  Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> >  protecting her honor, right?  And when she digs her nails in your

> >  back, it's erotic passion, right?  And when she bites you, it's just

> >  her nibbling too hard?  And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> >  you're driving her so wild?

> >

> >  Jeez...  you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> >  in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you?  Or

> >  are you just clueless about things like this in general?

> >

> >  Blame the victim... on a public list.  And we wonder why we're not

> >  considered professionals...

> >

> >  Nice, Randy, nice.  You're a positive voice for our profession.  I'll

> >  pray for laryngitis.

> >

> >  Mike :/

> >

> >       

[Guest guest]

Andy says it like it is!!!

I concur in full. Particularly with the SSM portion. SSM is one of the most

blatantly flawed ideas that has ever been promulgated, yet, intelligent

people still support it. It cannot be supported. I don't care how much money

you make as an executive in a for profit service, SSM is flawed, and it cannot

be justified. You know who you are!

GG

>

> I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode

> is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor.

>

> Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to

> shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped.

> Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances.

>

> The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They

> are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar

> called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us

> to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and

> hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a

> good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at

> a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig,

> and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place.

>

> Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am

> ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am

> unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911

> ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit

> of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean

> streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she

> had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid

> do it, because she asked for a female crew.

>

> Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System

> Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall

> parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was

> trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured,

> least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say

> " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after

> I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking

> lot at 3 am? "   I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response

> times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working

> very well to begin with.

>

> That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have

> been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a

> position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she

> could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle

> appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with

> somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old

> does.

>

> No children on the ambulances, period.

>

> Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be

> common sense.

> magnetass sends

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> >

> >

> >  On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> >  wrote:

> >  >

> >  > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

> > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are

> > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy "

> > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for

> > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one.

> > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the

> > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that

> > age is the only victim not the people.

> >

> >  ************

> >

> >  Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> >  protecting her honor, right?  And when she digs her nails in your

> >  back, it's erotic passion, right?  And when she bites you, it's just

> >  her nibbling too hard?  And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> >  you're driving her so wild?

> >

> >  Jeez...  you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> >  in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you?  Or

> >  are you just clueless about things like this in general?

> >

> >  Blame the victim... on a public list.  And we wonder why we're not

> >  considered professionals...

> >

> >  Nice, Randy, nice.  You're a positive voice for our profession.  I'll

> >  pray for laryngitis.

> >

> >  Mike :/

> >

> >       

[Guest guest]

Andy says it like it is!!!

I concur in full. Particularly with the SSM portion. SSM is one of the most

blatantly flawed ideas that has ever been promulgated, yet, intelligent

people still support it. It cannot be supported. I don't care how much money

you make as an executive in a for profit service, SSM is flawed, and it cannot

be justified. You know who you are!

GG

>

> I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode

> is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor.

>

> Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to

> shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped.

> Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances.

>

> The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They

> are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar

> called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us

> to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and

> hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a

> good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at

> a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig,

> and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place.

>

> Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am

> ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am

> unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911

> ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit

> of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean

> streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she

> had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid

> do it, because she asked for a female crew.

>

> Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System

> Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall

> parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was

> trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured,

> least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say

> " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after

> I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking

> lot at 3 am? "   I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response

> times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working

> very well to begin with.

>

> That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have

> been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a

> position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she

> could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle

> appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with

> somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old

> does.

>

> No children on the ambulances, period.

>

> Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be

> common sense.

> magnetass sends

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

> >

> >

> >  On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> >  wrote:

> >  >

> >  > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

> > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are

> > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy "

> > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for

> > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one.

> > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the

> > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that

> > age is the only victim not the people.

> >

> >  ************

> >

> >  Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> >  protecting her honor, right?  And when she digs her nails in your

> >  back, it's erotic passion, right?  And when she bites you, it's just

> >  her nibbling too hard?  And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> >  you're driving her so wild?

> >

> >  Jeez...  you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> >  in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you?  Or

> >  are you just clueless about things like this in general?

> >

> >  Blame the victim... on a public list.  And we wonder why we're not

> >  considered professionals...

> >

> >  Nice, Randy, nice.  You're a positive voice for our profession.  I'll

> >  pray for laryngitis.

> >

> >  Mike :/

> >

> >       

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

************

Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

you're driving her so wild?

Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

are you just clueless about things like this in general?

Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

considered professionals...

Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

pray for laryngitis.

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

************

Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

you're driving her so wild?

Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

are you just clueless about things like this in general?

Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

considered professionals...

Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

pray for laryngitis.

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

************

Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

you're driving her so wild?

Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

are you just clueless about things like this in general?

Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

considered professionals...

Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

pray for laryngitis.

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15

year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some

feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the

Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is

that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about

blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are

groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the

day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve

their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying

about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into

the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar

expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming

begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned.

Ken Musick

FF/EmtP

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to

tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands

a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

************

Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

you're driving her so wild?

Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

are you just clueless about things like this in general?

Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

considered professionals...

Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

pray for laryngitis.

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15

year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some

feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the

Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is

that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about

blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are

groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the

day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve

their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying

about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into

the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar

expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming

begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned.

Ken Musick

FF/EmtP

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to

tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands

a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

************

Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

you're driving her so wild?

Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

are you just clueless about things like this in general?

Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

considered professionals...

Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

pray for laryngitis.

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15

year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some

feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the

Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is

that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about

blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are

groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the

day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve

their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying

about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into

the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar

expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming

begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned.

Ken Musick

FF/EmtP

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to

tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands

a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

************

Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

you're driving her so wild?

Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

are you just clueless about things like this in general?

Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

considered professionals...

Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

pray for laryngitis.

Mike :/

[Guest guest]

What, exactly, is your opinion based on? You've met this girl? She

rode a shift with you?

Or, it's easier to justify in your own mind that this whole situation

is somehow better if she actually WANTED to be in EMS, around EMS

folks, and enjoyed the job/situation/experience (of riding EMS, not of

the sexual activity in the truck)? Somehow, labeling her a " groupie "

makes this somehow more palatable?

Tell you what - the arab terrorists were just devoted religious

followers who erred in their judgerment, much like these paramedics,

when they killed 3000 of us, right? Palestenian supporters who strap

explosives to themselves and kill children in Israel are somehow more

acceptable if they WANTED to secure a true palestinian state, vs. just

being a mad suicide bomber?

What, exactly, is the rationale for labeling this girl a " groupie " ?

More to the point, would it make it more acceptable for you to justify

YOUR participation in the incident had you been there? Are you really

just trying to spin this so that your conscience feels good about your

latent fantasy of consentual rape of a minor in the back of an

ambulance? Some special Code 3 Club initiation?

I'm going to go throw up now. Does ANYONE here have moral character,

other than Gene (even though he IS a lawyer?)?

Mike

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:50:26 -0600, / Musick

wrote:

>

> I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15

year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some

feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the

Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is

that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about

blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are

groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the

day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve

their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying

about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into

the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar

expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming

begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned.

>

> Ken Musick

> FF/EmtP

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to

tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands

a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

What, exactly, is your opinion based on? You've met this girl? She

rode a shift with you?

Or, it's easier to justify in your own mind that this whole situation

is somehow better if she actually WANTED to be in EMS, around EMS

folks, and enjoyed the job/situation/experience (of riding EMS, not of

the sexual activity in the truck)? Somehow, labeling her a " groupie "

makes this somehow more palatable?

Tell you what - the arab terrorists were just devoted religious

followers who erred in their judgerment, much like these paramedics,

when they killed 3000 of us, right? Palestenian supporters who strap

explosives to themselves and kill children in Israel are somehow more

acceptable if they WANTED to secure a true palestinian state, vs. just

being a mad suicide bomber?

What, exactly, is the rationale for labeling this girl a " groupie " ?

More to the point, would it make it more acceptable for you to justify

YOUR participation in the incident had you been there? Are you really

just trying to spin this so that your conscience feels good about your

latent fantasy of consentual rape of a minor in the back of an

ambulance? Some special Code 3 Club initiation?

I'm going to go throw up now. Does ANYONE here have moral character,

other than Gene (even though he IS a lawyer?)?

Mike

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:50:26 -0600, / Musick

wrote:

>

> I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15

year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some

feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the

Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is

that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about

blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are

groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the

day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve

their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying

about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into

the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar

expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming

begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned.

>

> Ken Musick

> FF/EmtP

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to

tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands

a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

What, exactly, is your opinion based on? You've met this girl? She

rode a shift with you?

Or, it's easier to justify in your own mind that this whole situation

is somehow better if she actually WANTED to be in EMS, around EMS

folks, and enjoyed the job/situation/experience (of riding EMS, not of

the sexual activity in the truck)? Somehow, labeling her a " groupie "

makes this somehow more palatable?

Tell you what - the arab terrorists were just devoted religious

followers who erred in their judgerment, much like these paramedics,

when they killed 3000 of us, right? Palestenian supporters who strap

explosives to themselves and kill children in Israel are somehow more

acceptable if they WANTED to secure a true palestinian state, vs. just

being a mad suicide bomber?

What, exactly, is the rationale for labeling this girl a " groupie " ?

More to the point, would it make it more acceptable for you to justify

YOUR participation in the incident had you been there? Are you really

just trying to spin this so that your conscience feels good about your

latent fantasy of consentual rape of a minor in the back of an

ambulance? Some special Code 3 Club initiation?

I'm going to go throw up now. Does ANYONE here have moral character,

other than Gene (even though he IS a lawyer?)?

Mike

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:50:26 -0600, / Musick

wrote:

>

> I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15

year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some

feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the

Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is

that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about

blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are

groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the

day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve

their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying

about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into

the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar

expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming

begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned.

>

> Ken Musick

> FF/EmtP

> Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that

said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to

tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands

a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of

her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is

a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be

" nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural

fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if

she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely

intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that

there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted.

Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have

gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers.

And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a

separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at

their " Mission & Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of

her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is

a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be

" nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural

fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if

she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely

intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that

there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted.

Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have

gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers.

And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a

separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at

their " Mission & Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of

her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is

a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be

" nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural

fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if

she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely

intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that

there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted.

Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have

gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers.

And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a

separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at

their " Mission & Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:15:54 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Mike,

> apparently you didn't read the first sentence in my paragraph, I agree and

said it was wrong for what he did. i'm simply trying to say that there's two

sides to every story, unfortunately the law overides one side because of age!

No, the law does not override anything because of age.

The law invalidates consent as an option because psychology has

determined that under certain sets of circumstances, consent can't be

valid, and in the case of young children of any kind there's a strong

line of psycholoigcal and legal reasoning that underscores the point

that children cannot make informed decisions about certiain things.

In this case, the law is clear that a 15 year old girl is not able to

consent to sexual activity with anyone over the age of 17, primarily

due to the improper influence an older person can exert against a 15

year old, especially in terms of learned psychological manipulation.

So, nothing is overriden. Children are protected, and there's " legal

outs " for those situations in which a certain thing might be

disallowed or illegal between children and adults, but not between

children.

Mike

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:15:54 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Mike,

> apparently you didn't read the first sentence in my paragraph, I agree and

said it was wrong for what he did. i'm simply trying to say that there's two

sides to every story, unfortunately the law overides one side because of age!

No, the law does not override anything because of age.

The law invalidates consent as an option because psychology has

determined that under certain sets of circumstances, consent can't be

valid, and in the case of young children of any kind there's a strong

line of psycholoigcal and legal reasoning that underscores the point

that children cannot make informed decisions about certiain things.

In this case, the law is clear that a 15 year old girl is not able to

consent to sexual activity with anyone over the age of 17, primarily

due to the improper influence an older person can exert against a 15

year old, especially in terms of learned psychological manipulation.

So, nothing is overriden. Children are protected, and there's " legal

outs " for those situations in which a certain thing might be

disallowed or illegal between children and adults, but not between

children.

Mike

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:15:54 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Mike,

> apparently you didn't read the first sentence in my paragraph, I agree and

said it was wrong for what he did. i'm simply trying to say that there's two

sides to every story, unfortunately the law overides one side because of age!

No, the law does not override anything because of age.

The law invalidates consent as an option because psychology has

determined that under certain sets of circumstances, consent can't be

valid, and in the case of young children of any kind there's a strong

line of psycholoigcal and legal reasoning that underscores the point

that children cannot make informed decisions about certiain things.

In this case, the law is clear that a 15 year old girl is not able to

consent to sexual activity with anyone over the age of 17, primarily

due to the improper influence an older person can exert against a 15

year old, especially in terms of learned psychological manipulation.

So, nothing is overriden. Children are protected, and there's " legal

outs " for those situations in which a certain thing might be

disallowed or illegal between children and adults, but not between

children.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode

is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor.

Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to

shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped.

Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances.

The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They

are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar

called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us

to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and

hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a

good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at

a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig,

and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place.

Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am

ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am

unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911

ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit

of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean

streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she

had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid

do it, because she asked for a female crew.

Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System

Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall

parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was

trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured,

least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say

" come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after

I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking

lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response

times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working

very well to begin with.

That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have

been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a

position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she

could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle

appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with

somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old

does.

No children on the ambulances, period.

Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be

common sense.

magnetass sends

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

> that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are

> you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy "

> Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for

> help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one.

> Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the

> back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that

> age is the only victim not the people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode

is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor.

Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to

shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped.

Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances.

The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They

are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar

called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us

to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and

hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a

good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at

a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig,

and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place.

Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am

ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am

unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911

ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit

of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean

streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she

had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid

do it, because she asked for a female crew.

Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System

Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall

parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was

trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured,

least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say

" come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after

I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking

lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response

times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working

very well to begin with.

That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have

been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a

position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she

could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle

appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with

somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old

does.

No children on the ambulances, period.

Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be

common sense.

magnetass sends

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

> that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are

> you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy "

> Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for

> help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one.

> Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the

> back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that

> age is the only victim not the people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode

is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor.

Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to

shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped.

Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances.

The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They

are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar

called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us

to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and

hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a

good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at

a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig,

and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place.

Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am

ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am

unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911

ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit

of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean

streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she

had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid

do it, because she asked for a female crew.

Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System

Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall

parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was

trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured,

least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say

" come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after

I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking

lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response

times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working

very well to begin with.

That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have

been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a

position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she

could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle

appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with

somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old

does.

No children on the ambulances, period.

Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be

common sense.

magnetass sends

Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old

>

>

> On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy

> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony

> that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are

> you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy "

> Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for

> help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one.

> Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the

> back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that

> age is the only victim not the people.

>

> ************

>

> Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just

> protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your

> back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just

> her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because

> you're driving her so wild?

>

> Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially

> in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or

> are you just clueless about things like this in general?

>

> Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not

> considered professionals...

>

> Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll

> pray for laryngitis.

>

> Mike :/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old

wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to

make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope

not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she

couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And

I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and

cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't

have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there,

you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe,

through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that

she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked

in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do

with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by

the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's

programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old

wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to

make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope

not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she

couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And

I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and

cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't

have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there,

you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe,

through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that

she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked

in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do

with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by

the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's

programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old

wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to

make marks or cause injury to back her story up!

Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope

not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she

couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And

I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and

cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't

have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there,

you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe,

through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that

she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked

in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do

with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by

the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's

programs for years. Look at their " Mission &

Vision " page here:

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their

mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also

notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a

KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like

ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge

you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year

old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good "

like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward

with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours

that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal.

Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say

that? I sure hope not.

-WalksAlone

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S.

Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or

attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a

national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show

683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not

report the offense to the police.

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice

Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law

enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

Randy wrote:

Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said

" I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell

me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a

little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell

phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated

that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held

down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people.

Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005

<BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local;

c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?>

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

By Melody Mc

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

<BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif>

FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced

a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for

sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance.

After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and

addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar

14 months.

" This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims --

not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the

devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a

paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program.

" When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I

don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without

these painful memories.

" Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that

choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the

three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with

and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred

in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003.

While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall

awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them,

the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to

police.

, who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual

assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in

prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district

attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years,

saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl.

Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation,

calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never

been in trouble before.

After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years

on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run

concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is

eligible for parole.

During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her

daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age.

" She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said.

" Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach

her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. "

Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a

statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the

victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife.

He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort

Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their

trust.

" I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he

said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what

happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from

over.

Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial.

A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts

of America, which operated the Explorer Program.

, the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce.

During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show

her support for them.

" Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, "

said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. "

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:34:46 -0800 (PST), Randy

wrote:

>

> Now hang on Ken, according to mike, Meredeth and others she's the complete

innocent victim here. it doesn't matter her status because after all, her mom

knows that she hasn't had sex before nor has she been on a date, but out of that

she is allowed to subject her self to see and expose her self to other victims

of assault, sicknesses, diseases, car wrecks, stabbings, shootings, etc., etc.,

(you get the point) all at night, where she should safely be at home. It's OK

for her to be out late to see mangled bodies but it's not OK for her to go to

the movies with a boy from school. And again for all of you who " think " I'm

defending the criminal you are totally wrong, as in way wrong.

*************

I started riding with my dad and his crews at the age of 12,

occasionally. By 15/16, I was riding pretty often, and while I was

with my dad's crews, I wasn't under his direct supervision, and not

always at his station depending on students, etc.

It's probably the single biggest impact I've had in my life - and kept

me straight more than anything else could have. I saw early on what

drugs, alcohol and violence can do, and I saw the impact someone could

have when someone else is in crisis. It was very surely the defining

time of my childhood, because I saw the world as it is, not as a

teenager could imagine it might be.

That's completely and totally different from my being able to make a

rational decision in the face of my horomones, and pressure from those

in authority over me. I was never raped, for sure, but I was exposed

to conversations that in any other situation would be completley

inappropriate, and likely were in my presence anyway.

That said - even if the 15 year old girl in question stripped naked,

laid down on the stretcher and said " take me now, I'm yours, " THESE

two medics were old enough to to override any physical impluse they

might have had, realize on how many levels this was wrong, and stop

her ride-along RIGHT THEN AND THERE. Rather, these two appear to have

actively participated in activities with her that were not only

illegal, but absolutely, positively unethical - especially for the

situation they were in.

There is no justification for this, PERIOD.

Mike :/