Guest guest Posted January 15, 2005 Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Our society has made the blanket determination that persons under eighteen are not allowed to consent with those over eighteen (in general). What I find interesting is that if this girl were three years older, she would be written off as a woman of ill-repute if anything had been made of the incident to begin with. What would we be saying about her then? Even though the law does not take into account an individual's psychosocial development, the opinion that I am hearing is that the girl's actions are somehow beyond question from a moral perspective because of the legal implications. I don't think that anyone is trying to suggest that somehow these men are less than guilty of their crime because of anything this girl did, or that she caused this, but I am reluctant to automatically think of her as a helpless victim of vicious predators simply because of the convenient scheme the state currently has in place to determine competence for consent. She may very well have been manipulated by people she looked up to, but then again she might have been more mature than many persons of legal age. We simply do not know, so it is best not to make any statements one way or the other. It's really not relevant. What is relevant is this: the whole ordeal is sad for our vocation because it reinforces the stereotype that we are just a bunch of uncivilized bubbas. But perhaps the most devastating aspect of this is that it undermines the credibility of us all at a time when our vocation is struggling for credibility in various ways. We are afforded the benefit of the doubt by the public. They assume that we are playing on the good side of the game. Yet when the public's confidence is betrayed, we all suffer, and the trust is not easy to rebuild. - Lancaster Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old haha, i don't use capital letters unless i am handwriting something or writing to someone important. now to the debate, the forest fire comment is in reference to the level of debates that began with the initial email. i admit that i wrongfully put blame on the girl, yes there were more factors involved that indirectly puts her in the middle of the conversation. i still want to know why a 15 y/o was allowed to ride along anyway, no matter day or night. 17 y/o student on career day i could understand. as far as the girl wearing spandex, if she wants to wear spandex all day long, i don't have a problem with it, but the minute that signs start popping up that she is attracting too much attention is when she should put on more clothes. stalking doesn't count, that is a totally different story. and yes you are correct that the female anatomy is not in question here, however if the department knew that there was more tendencies for that crew more that others(you can't tell me that people don't know) then she shouldn't have been paired with those two to begin with(even though she shouldn't have been there anyway). as a matter of fact the person i was speaking of lost his patch as soon as he was convicted, but pedophiles should not be allowed to have an occupation that will put them in contact with children. and just another two cents, pedophilia is another " name " created like alcoholism and ADHD, it's just a name. it's as hilarious as the theory that gays and lesbians are homosexuals by birth. i apologize if anything offends anyone. its just that this topic is about another adult that screwed up, and somehow this 15 y/o girl was put in that situation for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 " but I am reluctant to automatically think of her as a helpless victim of vicious predators simply because of the convenient scheme the state currently has in place to determine competence for consent. " Why on earth not? 15 years old is not competent....for much of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to adequately judge your actions. This is exactly why we have ages of consent for things. You cannot judge the validity of a contract until you are 18, you cannot drink until you are 21, you cannot be president until you are 35. Society makes laws as to what level of maturity you have to reach to do certain things. You have the body and urges of a woman at 15, but not the level of judgement that you need, period. It is perfectly valid to make statements as to her maturity....because she is 15 years old, and therefore not mature. The reason its not illegal for two 15 year-olds to have sex is because neither of them know any better. She might have gotten in the rig and stripped naked and said " let's go boys " but she does not have the maturity to understand her actions. a 29 year-old does, and it was incumbent on him NOT to engage in sexual acts with her, regardless of whether or not she consented to the acts, or even initiated them. It doesn't matter. It is illegal to have sex with a minor....always....every single time. I'm as disgusted as anybody else about this and what it does to our profession, but the cops, firefighters and doctors feel the same way when one of theirs screws up. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > haha, i don't use capital letters unless i am handwriting something or > writing to someone important. now to the debate, > > the forest fire comment is in reference to the level of debates that began > with the initial email. > > i admit that i wrongfully put blame on the girl, yes there were more > factors > involved that indirectly puts her in the middle of the conversation. i > still > want to know why a 15 y/o was allowed to ride along anyway, no matter day > or > night. 17 y/o student on career day i could understand. > > as far as the girl wearing spandex, if she wants to wear spandex all day > long, i don't have a problem with it, but the minute that signs start > popping up that she is attracting too much attention is when she should > put > on more clothes. stalking doesn't count, that is a totally different > story. > > and yes you are correct that the female anatomy is not in question here, > however if the department knew that there was more tendencies for that > crew > more that others(you can't tell me that people don't know) then she > shouldn't have been paired with those two to begin with(even though she > shouldn't have been there anyway). > > as a matter of fact the person i was speaking of lost his patch as soon as > he was convicted, but pedophiles should not be allowed to have an > occupation > that will put them in contact with children. and just another two cents, > pedophilia is another " name " created like alcoholism and ADHD, it's just a > name. it's as hilarious as the theory that gays and lesbians are > homosexuals > by birth. > > i apologize if anything offends anyone. its just that this topic is about > another adult that screwed up, and somehow this 15 y/o girl was put in > that > situation for whatever reason. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 " but I am reluctant to automatically think of her as a helpless victim of vicious predators simply because of the convenient scheme the state currently has in place to determine competence for consent. " Why on earth not? 15 years old is not competent....for much of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to adequately judge your actions. This is exactly why we have ages of consent for things. You cannot judge the validity of a contract until you are 18, you cannot drink until you are 21, you cannot be president until you are 35. Society makes laws as to what level of maturity you have to reach to do certain things. You have the body and urges of a woman at 15, but not the level of judgement that you need, period. It is perfectly valid to make statements as to her maturity....because she is 15 years old, and therefore not mature. The reason its not illegal for two 15 year-olds to have sex is because neither of them know any better. She might have gotten in the rig and stripped naked and said " let's go boys " but she does not have the maturity to understand her actions. a 29 year-old does, and it was incumbent on him NOT to engage in sexual acts with her, regardless of whether or not she consented to the acts, or even initiated them. It doesn't matter. It is illegal to have sex with a minor....always....every single time. I'm as disgusted as anybody else about this and what it does to our profession, but the cops, firefighters and doctors feel the same way when one of theirs screws up. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > haha, i don't use capital letters unless i am handwriting something or > writing to someone important. now to the debate, > > the forest fire comment is in reference to the level of debates that began > with the initial email. > > i admit that i wrongfully put blame on the girl, yes there were more > factors > involved that indirectly puts her in the middle of the conversation. i > still > want to know why a 15 y/o was allowed to ride along anyway, no matter day > or > night. 17 y/o student on career day i could understand. > > as far as the girl wearing spandex, if she wants to wear spandex all day > long, i don't have a problem with it, but the minute that signs start > popping up that she is attracting too much attention is when she should > put > on more clothes. stalking doesn't count, that is a totally different > story. > > and yes you are correct that the female anatomy is not in question here, > however if the department knew that there was more tendencies for that > crew > more that others(you can't tell me that people don't know) then she > shouldn't have been paired with those two to begin with(even though she > shouldn't have been there anyway). > > as a matter of fact the person i was speaking of lost his patch as soon as > he was convicted, but pedophiles should not be allowed to have an > occupation > that will put them in contact with children. and just another two cents, > pedophilia is another " name " created like alcoholism and ADHD, it's just a > name. it's as hilarious as the theory that gays and lesbians are > homosexuals > by birth. > > i apologize if anything offends anyone. its just that this topic is about > another adult that screwed up, and somehow this 15 y/o girl was put in > that > situation for whatever reason. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 " but I am reluctant to automatically think of her as a helpless victim of vicious predators simply because of the convenient scheme the state currently has in place to determine competence for consent. " Why on earth not? 15 years old is not competent....for much of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to adequately judge your actions. This is exactly why we have ages of consent for things. You cannot judge the validity of a contract until you are 18, you cannot drink until you are 21, you cannot be president until you are 35. Society makes laws as to what level of maturity you have to reach to do certain things. You have the body and urges of a woman at 15, but not the level of judgement that you need, period. It is perfectly valid to make statements as to her maturity....because she is 15 years old, and therefore not mature. The reason its not illegal for two 15 year-olds to have sex is because neither of them know any better. She might have gotten in the rig and stripped naked and said " let's go boys " but she does not have the maturity to understand her actions. a 29 year-old does, and it was incumbent on him NOT to engage in sexual acts with her, regardless of whether or not she consented to the acts, or even initiated them. It doesn't matter. It is illegal to have sex with a minor....always....every single time. I'm as disgusted as anybody else about this and what it does to our profession, but the cops, firefighters and doctors feel the same way when one of theirs screws up. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > haha, i don't use capital letters unless i am handwriting something or > writing to someone important. now to the debate, > > the forest fire comment is in reference to the level of debates that began > with the initial email. > > i admit that i wrongfully put blame on the girl, yes there were more > factors > involved that indirectly puts her in the middle of the conversation. i > still > want to know why a 15 y/o was allowed to ride along anyway, no matter day > or > night. 17 y/o student on career day i could understand. > > as far as the girl wearing spandex, if she wants to wear spandex all day > long, i don't have a problem with it, but the minute that signs start > popping up that she is attracting too much attention is when she should > put > on more clothes. stalking doesn't count, that is a totally different > story. > > and yes you are correct that the female anatomy is not in question here, > however if the department knew that there was more tendencies for that > crew > more that others(you can't tell me that people don't know) then she > shouldn't have been paired with those two to begin with(even though she > shouldn't have been there anyway). > > as a matter of fact the person i was speaking of lost his patch as soon as > he was convicted, but pedophiles should not be allowed to have an > occupation > that will put them in contact with children. and just another two cents, > pedophilia is another " name " created like alcoholism and ADHD, it's just a > name. it's as hilarious as the theory that gays and lesbians are > homosexuals > by birth. > > i apologize if anything offends anyone. its just that this topic is about > another adult that screwed up, and somehow this 15 y/o girl was put in > that > situation for whatever reason. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to believe the latter. Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to believe the latter. Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to believe the latter. Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 It is called the Cycle of Abuse. You might try google for more information, or just call your local Child Protective Services and ask them about it. Carol > > > > > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up > your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell > you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to > believe the latter. > Ken > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 It is called the Cycle of Abuse. You might try google for more information, or just call your local Child Protective Services and ask them about it. Carol > > > > > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up > your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell > you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to > believe the latter. > Ken > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 It is called the Cycle of Abuse. You might try google for more information, or just call your local Child Protective Services and ask them about it. Carol > > > > > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up > your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell > you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to > believe the latter. > Ken > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Amen LP -- RE: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old Wow...what a lot of conversation overnight. I too am disgusted with this and truly feel for this girl and her family as well as the family of this EMT. There are victims all around in this episode... BUT, although I agree that better hiring processes will help prevent this.. it will not be truly addressed until ALL EMS agencies start paying attention to the culture and behavior of their crews while on duty. Why is there this constant pre-occupation with sex and sexual talk in the workplace? I suppose it is culturally driven from everything around us in society...but if we allow this type of behavior and culture to predominate in our agencies we are all asking for similar episodes in our systems. Legislative and legal authorities have worked hard to place penalties on work places and people who insist on conducting themselves inappropriately in the workplace...yet many EMS agencies (many workplaces in general) turn a blind eye to laws regarding hostile work places and harrassment with the excuse that " its just friendly banter " or " its just station talk " . Well, in this instance it started out as " friendly banter " and because the girl was too young and inexperienced, it was not stopped. For all EMS managers and supervisors pay attention: This is exactly how it occurs all the time in workplace law issues. Friendly chit-chat (probably inappropriate legally) begins by one or both sides and continues until something stops it. This something is usually a realization by one or both that it has gone to far (and either it is a mutual stoppage or someone gets hurt feelidngs and gets upset (at the least) or files a complaint (at the most))...but rarely is it stopped by supervision and management...rarely is it prevented and rarely do we discuss these issues with out employees ahead of time to try and prevent such things from occurring. I know it is a deep dark secret what goes on in the station or ambulance.. but when did it become appropriate to discuss sexual relationships/behavior/or choice with our co-workers??? It didn't just happen overnight...nor was there a day when it probably didn't happen...but we must work to prevent it and to make sure that everyone connected to our profession knows it is inappropriate, wrong, and how to deal with it when it starts...NOT when it has gone to far. Whew...I feel better now. Thanks. Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Amen LP -- RE: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old Wow...what a lot of conversation overnight. I too am disgusted with this and truly feel for this girl and her family as well as the family of this EMT. There are victims all around in this episode... BUT, although I agree that better hiring processes will help prevent this.. it will not be truly addressed until ALL EMS agencies start paying attention to the culture and behavior of their crews while on duty. Why is there this constant pre-occupation with sex and sexual talk in the workplace? I suppose it is culturally driven from everything around us in society...but if we allow this type of behavior and culture to predominate in our agencies we are all asking for similar episodes in our systems. Legislative and legal authorities have worked hard to place penalties on work places and people who insist on conducting themselves inappropriately in the workplace...yet many EMS agencies (many workplaces in general) turn a blind eye to laws regarding hostile work places and harrassment with the excuse that " its just friendly banter " or " its just station talk " . Well, in this instance it started out as " friendly banter " and because the girl was too young and inexperienced, it was not stopped. For all EMS managers and supervisors pay attention: This is exactly how it occurs all the time in workplace law issues. Friendly chit-chat (probably inappropriate legally) begins by one or both sides and continues until something stops it. This something is usually a realization by one or both that it has gone to far (and either it is a mutual stoppage or someone gets hurt feelidngs and gets upset (at the least) or files a complaint (at the most))...but rarely is it stopped by supervision and management...rarely is it prevented and rarely do we discuss these issues with out employees ahead of time to try and prevent such things from occurring. I know it is a deep dark secret what goes on in the station or ambulance.. but when did it become appropriate to discuss sexual relationships/behavior/or choice with our co-workers??? It didn't just happen overnight...nor was there a day when it probably didn't happen...but we must work to prevent it and to make sure that everyone connected to our profession knows it is inappropriate, wrong, and how to deal with it when it starts...NOT when it has gone to far. Whew...I feel better now. Thanks. Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Amen LP -- RE: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old Wow...what a lot of conversation overnight. I too am disgusted with this and truly feel for this girl and her family as well as the family of this EMT. There are victims all around in this episode... BUT, although I agree that better hiring processes will help prevent this.. it will not be truly addressed until ALL EMS agencies start paying attention to the culture and behavior of their crews while on duty. Why is there this constant pre-occupation with sex and sexual talk in the workplace? I suppose it is culturally driven from everything around us in society...but if we allow this type of behavior and culture to predominate in our agencies we are all asking for similar episodes in our systems. Legislative and legal authorities have worked hard to place penalties on work places and people who insist on conducting themselves inappropriately in the workplace...yet many EMS agencies (many workplaces in general) turn a blind eye to laws regarding hostile work places and harrassment with the excuse that " its just friendly banter " or " its just station talk " . Well, in this instance it started out as " friendly banter " and because the girl was too young and inexperienced, it was not stopped. For all EMS managers and supervisors pay attention: This is exactly how it occurs all the time in workplace law issues. Friendly chit-chat (probably inappropriate legally) begins by one or both sides and continues until something stops it. This something is usually a realization by one or both that it has gone to far (and either it is a mutual stoppage or someone gets hurt feelidngs and gets upset (at the least) or files a complaint (at the most))...but rarely is it stopped by supervision and management...rarely is it prevented and rarely do we discuss these issues with out employees ahead of time to try and prevent such things from occurring. I know it is a deep dark secret what goes on in the station or ambulance.. but when did it become appropriate to discuss sexual relationships/behavior/or choice with our co-workers??? It didn't just happen overnight...nor was there a day when it probably didn't happen...but we must work to prevent it and to make sure that everyone connected to our profession knows it is inappropriate, wrong, and how to deal with it when it starts...NOT when it has gone to far. Whew...I feel better now. Thanks. Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to adequately judge your actions. <<< Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not referring to any specific situation, but to the concept in general: Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult? We can't have it both ways. Kenny Navarro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to adequately judge your actions. <<< Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not referring to any specific situation, but to the concept in general: Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult? We can't have it both ways. Kenny Navarro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:51:18 -0000, Kenny Navarro wrote: > > " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much > of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to > adequately judge your actions. <<< > > Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not > emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions > but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult? Different set of psychological criteria. " Consent " requires a different set of mental processes and understanding than the " simpler " determination of whether or not something was right or wrong. Also, for a child to be tried as an adult requires the approval of a judge in a juvenile proceeding, so even when we attempt to try children as adults, the process always begins in a juvenile setting. Better question - why do we have a life sentence? What good does it do someone to be locked away for life, and why should I as a taxpayer fund it, or as a citizen allow it? If it's heinous enough to be sentenced to life, why aren't we willing to execute them and get it over with? Our society rarely thinks through its conflicting positions - rather, we just bolster the one we think we like the best. We've disregarded the importance of philosophers, those who would make us think - much like earlier greco-roman cultures, who followed the same pattern of decline and destruction. We could turn this around, but to do so requires a standard-bearer for personal responsibility - someone that can be an example to others of the true nature of personal responsibility. With regards to this incident, I pose this philosophical question: How can we work to prevent it from happening again? What would work, what would make sense, and what is reasonable? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:51:18 -0000, Kenny Navarro wrote: > > " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much > of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to > adequately judge your actions. <<< > > Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not > emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions > but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult? Different set of psychological criteria. " Consent " requires a different set of mental processes and understanding than the " simpler " determination of whether or not something was right or wrong. Also, for a child to be tried as an adult requires the approval of a judge in a juvenile proceeding, so even when we attempt to try children as adults, the process always begins in a juvenile setting. Better question - why do we have a life sentence? What good does it do someone to be locked away for life, and why should I as a taxpayer fund it, or as a citizen allow it? If it's heinous enough to be sentenced to life, why aren't we willing to execute them and get it over with? Our society rarely thinks through its conflicting positions - rather, we just bolster the one we think we like the best. We've disregarded the importance of philosophers, those who would make us think - much like earlier greco-roman cultures, who followed the same pattern of decline and destruction. We could turn this around, but to do so requires a standard-bearer for personal responsibility - someone that can be an example to others of the true nature of personal responsibility. With regards to this incident, I pose this philosophical question: How can we work to prevent it from happening again? What would work, what would make sense, and what is reasonable? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 We have it both ways all the time. On Friday you can have an abortion. On Monday the fetus has changed sufficiently into a human that you can't have an abortion. They just had a pretty well-known case in California where they convicted a guy of murdering a fetus that it would have been perfectly legal to abort only a few months earlier. In December its murder. In September its a privacy issue. The law splits hairs like that all the time. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much > of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to > adequately judge your actions. <<< > > Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not referring to any > specific situation, but to the concept in general: > > Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not > emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions > but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult? > > We can't have it both ways. > > Kenny Navarro > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 We have it both ways all the time. On Friday you can have an abortion. On Monday the fetus has changed sufficiently into a human that you can't have an abortion. They just had a pretty well-known case in California where they convicted a guy of murdering a fetus that it would have been perfectly legal to abort only a few months earlier. In December its murder. In September its a privacy issue. The law splits hairs like that all the time. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much > of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to > adequately judge your actions. <<< > > Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not referring to any > specific situation, but to the concept in general: > > Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not > emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions > but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult? > > We can't have it both ways. > > Kenny Navarro > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 We have it both ways all the time. On Friday you can have an abortion. On Monday the fetus has changed sufficiently into a human that you can't have an abortion. They just had a pretty well-known case in California where they convicted a guy of murdering a fetus that it would have been perfectly legal to abort only a few months earlier. In December its murder. In September its a privacy issue. The law splits hairs like that all the time. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > " Brown " wrote: >>> 15 years old is not competent....for much > of anything. You are not mature enough emotionally at 15 to > adequately judge your actions. <<< > > Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not referring to any > specific situation, but to the concept in general: > > Why is it that if a 15-year-old has sex, we say that he or she is not > emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for their actions > but if a 15-year-old commits murder, we want them tried as an adult? > > We can't have it both ways. > > Kenny Navarro > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Doc- (And you too, Gene) I work for UTMB providing EMS services to the inmate population of TDCJ-ID. I provide the highest level of care for all of the Offenders entrusted to me, no matter what my personal feelings about the person may be, no matter what crime they may have done. I take my duty so seriously, that I will make the following Oath, regarding the Fort Worth Duo..... I promise, that should the healthcare of these malodorous pieces of human offal be entrusted to me or my coworkers, we shall spare no expense, nor fail to undertake every possible means to ensure a long, long, life to these creatures. They will have all of the benefits that such a long life in a penal institution, housing thousands of sociopaths in cramped quarters can offer. And with the low esteem that child sex offenders are held by the majority of the offender population, I know that they will have ample time and occasion to dwell upon the nature and ramifications of their heinous acts, as the predators they have been locked up with turn them into prey..... I just hope they find God before God finds them..... TD There ain't enough rope in Texas or a high enough tree...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Attend a seminary on the topic open a book on the topic read it for your self. sorry if I stepped on some ones toes but this is taught in classes on dealing with sexually abused children it is not something I made up even if you don't like it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to believe the latter. Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Attend a seminary on the topic open a book on the topic read it for your self. sorry if I stepped on some ones toes but this is taught in classes on dealing with sexually abused children it is not something I made up even if you don't like it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to believe the latter. Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Attend a seminary on the topic open a book on the topic read it for your self. sorry if I stepped on some ones toes but this is taught in classes on dealing with sexually abused children it is not something I made up even if you don't like it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to believe the latter. Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 My silence in the matter was to prevent you from further embracement on the topic. I don't know you or any thing about you so your taking what I said that was tactful and true only servers an argument that is avoidable as no one used your name in the comment as I am aware of. See the text below for proof provided by a 3rd party not me involving this thread. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old It is called the Cycle of Abuse. You might try google for more information, or just call your local Child Protective Services and ask them about it. Carol > > > > > Sad thing is most sexual predator victims become predators. > > > > > > I'm still waiting for the facts and statistics that would back up > your statement, or an admission that you don't know what the hell > you're talking about. Your silence on this matter leads one to > believe the latter. > Ken > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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