Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Andy says it like it is!!! I concur in full. Particularly with the SSM portion. SSM is one of the most blatantly flawed ideas that has ever been promulgated, yet, intelligent people still support it. It cannot be supported. I don't care how much money you make as an executive in a for profit service, SSM is flawed, and it cannot be justified. You know who you are! GG > > I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode > is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor. > > Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to > shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped. > Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances. > > The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They > are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar > called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us > to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and > hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a > good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at > a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig, > and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place. > > Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am > ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am > unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911 > ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit > of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean > streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she > had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid > do it, because she asked for a female crew. > > Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System > Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall > parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was > trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured, > least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say > " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after > I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking > lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response > times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working > very well to begin with. > > That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have > been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a > position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she > could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle > appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with > somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old > does. > > No children on the ambulances, period. > > Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be > common sense. > magnetass sends > Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony > > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are > > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " > > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for > > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. > > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the > > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that > > age is the only victim not the people. > > > > ************ > > > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > > you're driving her so wild? > > > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > > considered professionals... > > > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > > pray for laryngitis. > > > > Mike :/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Andy says it like it is!!! I concur in full. Particularly with the SSM portion. SSM is one of the most blatantly flawed ideas that has ever been promulgated, yet, intelligent people still support it. It cannot be supported. I don't care how much money you make as an executive in a for profit service, SSM is flawed, and it cannot be justified. You know who you are! GG > > I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode > is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor. > > Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to > shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped. > Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances. > > The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They > are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar > called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us > to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and > hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a > good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at > a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig, > and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place. > > Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am > ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am > unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911 > ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit > of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean > streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she > had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid > do it, because she asked for a female crew. > > Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System > Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall > parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was > trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured, > least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say > " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after > I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking > lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response > times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working > very well to begin with. > > That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have > been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a > position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she > could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle > appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with > somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old > does. > > No children on the ambulances, period. > > Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be > common sense. > magnetass sends > Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony > > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are > > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " > > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for > > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. > > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the > > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that > > age is the only victim not the people. > > > > ************ > > > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > > you're driving her so wild? > > > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > > considered professionals... > > > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > > pray for laryngitis. > > > > Mike :/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Andy says it like it is!!! I concur in full. Particularly with the SSM portion. SSM is one of the most blatantly flawed ideas that has ever been promulgated, yet, intelligent people still support it. It cannot be supported. I don't care how much money you make as an executive in a for profit service, SSM is flawed, and it cannot be justified. You know who you are! GG > > I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode > is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor. > > Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to > shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped. > Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances. > > The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They > are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar > called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us > to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and > hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a > good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at > a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig, > and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place. > > Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am > ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am > unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911 > ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit > of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean > streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she > had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid > do it, because she asked for a female crew. > > Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System > Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall > parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was > trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured, > least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say > " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after > I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking > lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response > times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working > very well to begin with. > > That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have > been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a > position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she > could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle > appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with > somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old > does. > > No children on the ambulances, period. > > Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be > common sense. > magnetass sends > Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony > > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are > > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " > > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for > > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. > > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the > > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that > > age is the only victim not the people. > > > > ************ > > > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > > you're driving her so wild? > > > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > > considered professionals... > > > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > > pray for laryngitis. > > > > Mike :/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. ************ Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because you're driving her so wild? Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or are you just clueless about things like this in general? Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not considered professionals... Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll pray for laryngitis. Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. ************ Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because you're driving her so wild? Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or are you just clueless about things like this in general? Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not considered professionals... Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll pray for laryngitis. Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. ************ Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because you're driving her so wild? Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or are you just clueless about things like this in general? Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not considered professionals... Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll pray for laryngitis. Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15 year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned. Ken Musick FF/EmtP Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. ************ Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because you're driving her so wild? Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or are you just clueless about things like this in general? Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not considered professionals... Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll pray for laryngitis. Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15 year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned. Ken Musick FF/EmtP Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. ************ Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because you're driving her so wild? Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or are you just clueless about things like this in general? Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not considered professionals... Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll pray for laryngitis. Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15 year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned. Ken Musick FF/EmtP Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. ************ Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because you're driving her so wild? Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or are you just clueless about things like this in general? Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not considered professionals... Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll pray for laryngitis. Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 What, exactly, is your opinion based on? You've met this girl? She rode a shift with you? Or, it's easier to justify in your own mind that this whole situation is somehow better if she actually WANTED to be in EMS, around EMS folks, and enjoyed the job/situation/experience (of riding EMS, not of the sexual activity in the truck)? Somehow, labeling her a " groupie " makes this somehow more palatable? Tell you what - the arab terrorists were just devoted religious followers who erred in their judgerment, much like these paramedics, when they killed 3000 of us, right? Palestenian supporters who strap explosives to themselves and kill children in Israel are somehow more acceptable if they WANTED to secure a true palestinian state, vs. just being a mad suicide bomber? What, exactly, is the rationale for labeling this girl a " groupie " ? More to the point, would it make it more acceptable for you to justify YOUR participation in the incident had you been there? Are you really just trying to spin this so that your conscience feels good about your latent fantasy of consentual rape of a minor in the back of an ambulance? Some special Code 3 Club initiation? I'm going to go throw up now. Does ANYONE here have moral character, other than Gene (even though he IS a lawyer?)? Mike On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:50:26 -0600, / Musick wrote: > > I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15 year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned. > > Ken Musick > FF/EmtP > Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > wrote: > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. > > ************ > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > you're driving her so wild? > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > considered professionals... > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > pray for laryngitis. > > Mike :/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 What, exactly, is your opinion based on? You've met this girl? She rode a shift with you? Or, it's easier to justify in your own mind that this whole situation is somehow better if she actually WANTED to be in EMS, around EMS folks, and enjoyed the job/situation/experience (of riding EMS, not of the sexual activity in the truck)? Somehow, labeling her a " groupie " makes this somehow more palatable? Tell you what - the arab terrorists were just devoted religious followers who erred in their judgerment, much like these paramedics, when they killed 3000 of us, right? Palestenian supporters who strap explosives to themselves and kill children in Israel are somehow more acceptable if they WANTED to secure a true palestinian state, vs. just being a mad suicide bomber? What, exactly, is the rationale for labeling this girl a " groupie " ? More to the point, would it make it more acceptable for you to justify YOUR participation in the incident had you been there? Are you really just trying to spin this so that your conscience feels good about your latent fantasy of consentual rape of a minor in the back of an ambulance? Some special Code 3 Club initiation? I'm going to go throw up now. Does ANYONE here have moral character, other than Gene (even though he IS a lawyer?)? Mike On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:50:26 -0600, / Musick wrote: > > I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15 year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned. > > Ken Musick > FF/EmtP > Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > wrote: > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. > > ************ > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > you're driving her so wild? > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > considered professionals... > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > pray for laryngitis. > > Mike :/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 What, exactly, is your opinion based on? You've met this girl? She rode a shift with you? Or, it's easier to justify in your own mind that this whole situation is somehow better if she actually WANTED to be in EMS, around EMS folks, and enjoyed the job/situation/experience (of riding EMS, not of the sexual activity in the truck)? Somehow, labeling her a " groupie " makes this somehow more palatable? Tell you what - the arab terrorists were just devoted religious followers who erred in their judgerment, much like these paramedics, when they killed 3000 of us, right? Palestenian supporters who strap explosives to themselves and kill children in Israel are somehow more acceptable if they WANTED to secure a true palestinian state, vs. just being a mad suicide bomber? What, exactly, is the rationale for labeling this girl a " groupie " ? More to the point, would it make it more acceptable for you to justify YOUR participation in the incident had you been there? Are you really just trying to spin this so that your conscience feels good about your latent fantasy of consentual rape of a minor in the back of an ambulance? Some special Code 3 Club initiation? I'm going to go throw up now. Does ANYONE here have moral character, other than Gene (even though he IS a lawyer?)? Mike On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:50:26 -0600, / Musick wrote: > > I still have a problem with the parents, or should I say parent, letting a 15 year old ride out on an overnight shift. Now this is sure to ruffle some feathers but I don't care. Having worked at Medstar and been a part of the Explorer program and seen some of the " kids " who went through it, my opinion is that the girl was a " groupie " . Now before you lawyer types cry foul about blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm also not saying all female explorers are groupies because I've seen many with a legitimate interest, riding out with the day crews I might add. and the other guy surely knew better and deserve their punishment for being absolutely stupid. But as far as the mother crying about her daughters innocence, it was probably lost long before she climbed into the back of that ambulance, and that's just my opinion resulting from my Medstar expiriences and once again, I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. Now let the flaming begin if it will make you feel better, I've got my gear ready to be donned. > > Ken Musick > FF/EmtP > Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > wrote: > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. > > ************ > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > you're driving her so wild? > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > considered professionals... > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > pray for laryngitis. > > Mike :/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission & Vision " page here: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not. -WalksAlone The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials. Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police. Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4 Randy wrote: Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005 <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local; c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> By Melody Mc <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Star-Telegram Staff Writer <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance. After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar 14 months. " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims -- not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program. " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without these painful memories. " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003. While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them, the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to police. , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years, saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl. Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation, calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never been in trouble before. After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is eligible for parole. During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age. " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said. " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. " Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife. He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their trust. " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from over. Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial. A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts of America, which operated the Explorer Program. , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce. During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show her support for them. " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, " said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission & Vision " page here: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not. -WalksAlone The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials. Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police. Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4 Randy wrote: Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005 <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local; c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> By Melody Mc <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Star-Telegram Staff Writer <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance. After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar 14 months. " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims -- not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program. " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without these painful memories. " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003. While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them, the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to police. , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years, saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl. Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation, calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never been in trouble before. After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is eligible for parole. During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age. " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said. " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. " Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife. He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their trust. " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from over. Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial. A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts of America, which operated the Explorer Program. , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce. During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show her support for them. " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, " said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission & Vision " page here: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not. -WalksAlone The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials. Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police. Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4 Randy wrote: Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005 <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local; c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> By Melody Mc <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Star-Telegram Staff Writer <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance. After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar 14 months. " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims -- not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program. " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without these painful memories. " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003. While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them, the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to police. , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years, saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl. Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation, calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never been in trouble before. After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is eligible for parole. During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age. " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said. " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. " Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife. He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their trust. " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from over. Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial. A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts of America, which operated the Explorer Program. , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce. During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show her support for them. " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, " said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:15:54 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Mike, > apparently you didn't read the first sentence in my paragraph, I agree and said it was wrong for what he did. i'm simply trying to say that there's two sides to every story, unfortunately the law overides one side because of age! No, the law does not override anything because of age. The law invalidates consent as an option because psychology has determined that under certain sets of circumstances, consent can't be valid, and in the case of young children of any kind there's a strong line of psycholoigcal and legal reasoning that underscores the point that children cannot make informed decisions about certiain things. In this case, the law is clear that a 15 year old girl is not able to consent to sexual activity with anyone over the age of 17, primarily due to the improper influence an older person can exert against a 15 year old, especially in terms of learned psychological manipulation. So, nothing is overriden. Children are protected, and there's " legal outs " for those situations in which a certain thing might be disallowed or illegal between children and adults, but not between children. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:15:54 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Mike, > apparently you didn't read the first sentence in my paragraph, I agree and said it was wrong for what he did. i'm simply trying to say that there's two sides to every story, unfortunately the law overides one side because of age! No, the law does not override anything because of age. The law invalidates consent as an option because psychology has determined that under certain sets of circumstances, consent can't be valid, and in the case of young children of any kind there's a strong line of psycholoigcal and legal reasoning that underscores the point that children cannot make informed decisions about certiain things. In this case, the law is clear that a 15 year old girl is not able to consent to sexual activity with anyone over the age of 17, primarily due to the improper influence an older person can exert against a 15 year old, especially in terms of learned psychological manipulation. So, nothing is overriden. Children are protected, and there's " legal outs " for those situations in which a certain thing might be disallowed or illegal between children and adults, but not between children. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:15:54 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Mike, > apparently you didn't read the first sentence in my paragraph, I agree and said it was wrong for what he did. i'm simply trying to say that there's two sides to every story, unfortunately the law overides one side because of age! No, the law does not override anything because of age. The law invalidates consent as an option because psychology has determined that under certain sets of circumstances, consent can't be valid, and in the case of young children of any kind there's a strong line of psycholoigcal and legal reasoning that underscores the point that children cannot make informed decisions about certiain things. In this case, the law is clear that a 15 year old girl is not able to consent to sexual activity with anyone over the age of 17, primarily due to the improper influence an older person can exert against a 15 year old, especially in terms of learned psychological manipulation. So, nothing is overriden. Children are protected, and there's " legal outs " for those situations in which a certain thing might be disallowed or illegal between children and adults, but not between children. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor. Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped. Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances. The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig, and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place. Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911 ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid do it, because she asked for a female crew. Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured, least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working very well to begin with. That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old does. No children on the ambulances, period. Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be common sense. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > wrote: > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that > age is the only victim not the people. > > ************ > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > you're driving her so wild? > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > considered professionals... > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > pray for laryngitis. > > Mike :/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor. Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped. Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances. The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig, and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place. Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911 ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid do it, because she asked for a female crew. Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured, least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working very well to begin with. That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old does. No children on the ambulances, period. Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be common sense. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > wrote: > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that > age is the only victim not the people. > > ************ > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > you're driving her so wild? > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > considered professionals... > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > pray for laryngitis. > > Mike :/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 I don't know about any of that, but my take on the entire wretched episode is that EVERYBODY had taken leave of their senses, except for the minor. Whomever it was at MedStar that thought taking 15 year-olds to shooting/stabbing/fatality MVA scenes was a good idea ought to be whipped. Urban 911 is NO place for a kid, ever, under any circumstances. The Boy Scouts have the GALL to talk about a lawsuit against MedStar? They are every bit as culpable as MedStar is....maybe more. I don't think MedStar called the BSA and said " hey, send us some young kids to haul around with us to multiple shootings " . When I was an explorer, we camped, rock climbed and hiked a lot. Nobody ever thought that letting me go on an ambulance was a good idea. I can't tell you how many times I've come close to being hurt at a scene, and I have had friends hurt and killed in EMS. Its a dangerous gig, and it is UNCONCIONABLE that a teenager was there in the first place. Who in their right mind is going to let their 15 year-old be out a 3 am ANYWHERE? No way in hell is my kid someplace away from the house at 3 am unless its a church lock-in or a sleepover someplace. On an urban 911 ambulance....at 3 in the morning? Not my kid. I will grant the mother a bit of slack for being ignorant of what really goes on out there in the mean streets after dark, but no way in the world was this a good idea. Also, she had some inkling that it was probably not a good idea before she let her kid do it, because she asked for a female crew. Wait...I'm not done. In my view, another culprit was the idiotic System Status Management. It is just utterly stupid to post a unit at the mall parking lot. They should have been in a secure station someplace. She was trapped in that unit. NOBODY deserves to get stuck someplace unsecured, least of all a teen girl. In a station its far easier to call momma and say " come get me " . Was this the cause? Nope, but the FIRST thing I thought after I heard about it was " what in god's name were they doing in a dark parking lot at 3 am? " I read all the time that MedStar cannot keep its response times under its contracted limit, so it doesn't seem like SSM is working very well to begin with. That girl might have been the biggest medic groupie on earth, and might have been with dozens of men before, but the ADULTS conspired to place her in a position where she either was truly assaulted or in a position where she could act on impulses that a 15 year-old isn't equipped to handle appropriately. There is a reason its illegal for an adult to have sex with somebody under 18. Two 15 year-olds don't know better. A 29 and 37 year-old does. No children on the ambulances, period. Nobody should have to actually make rules like this. It ought to just be common sense. magnetass sends Re: Sad Day for EMS and a 16-year old > > > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:58:53 -0800 (PST), Randy > wrote: > > > > Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony > that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are > you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " > Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for > help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. > Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the > back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that > age is the only victim not the people. > > ************ > > Yeah, cause we all know that when a woman says no, she's just > protecting her honor, right? And when she digs her nails in your > back, it's erotic passion, right? And when she bites you, it's just > her nibbling too hard? And when she kicks and hits, it's because > you're driving her so wild? > > Jeez... you don't know much about the psychology of rape, especially > in a setting where the victim is subservient to the actor, do you? Or > are you just clueless about things like this in general? > > Blame the victim... on a public list. And we wonder why we're not > considered professionals... > > Nice, Randy, nice. You're a positive voice for our profession. I'll > pray for laryngitis. > > Mike :/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to make marks or cause injury to back her story up! Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission & Vision " page here: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not. -WalksAlone The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials. Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police. Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4 Randy wrote: Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005 <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local; c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> By Melody Mc <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Star-Telegram Staff Writer <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance. After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar 14 months. " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims -- not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program. " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without these painful memories. " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003. While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them, the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to police. , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years, saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl. Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation, calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never been in trouble before. After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is eligible for parole. During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age. " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said. " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. " Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife. He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their trust. " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from over. Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial. A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts of America, which operated the Explorer Program. , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce. During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show her support for them. " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, " said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to make marks or cause injury to back her story up! Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission & Vision " page here: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not. -WalksAlone The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials. Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police. Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4 Randy wrote: Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005 <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local; c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> By Melody Mc <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Star-Telegram Staff Writer <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance. After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar 14 months. " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims -- not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program. " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without these painful memories. " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003. While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them, the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to police. , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years, saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl. Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation, calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never been in trouble before. After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is eligible for parole. During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age. " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said. " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. " Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife. He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their trust. " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from over. Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial. A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts of America, which operated the Explorer Program. , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce. During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show her support for them. " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, " said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Oh spare me with the innocent, defenseless out cry. she's 15 not 5. A 5 year old wouldn't he able to defend themselves but a 15 year old can. at least enough to make marks or cause injury to back her story up! Walks Alone wrote:Are you serious!?! I sure hope not... This CHILD was probably scared out of her mind. The way I read it, she couldn't even speak to say yes or no. Fear is a very very powerful weapon. And I can tell you that girls are brought up to be " nice " and to be respectful, and cooperative. Also, girls aren't natural fighters like boys are. She wouldn't have known how to defend herself, even if she had wanted to. You weren't there, you don't know how they likely intimidated her, and probably made her believe, through actions or words, that there was no escape, there was no help, and that she'd get hurt if she resisted. Heck they probably had both the doors blocked in the unit, she couldn't have gotten away if she tried. It has nothing to do with her being in the Explorers. And yes, the Explorers are technically run by the " Boy Scouts " but it's a separate entity that has accepted girls into it's programs for years. Look at their " Mission & Vision " page here: http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc & c=mv The whole focus of their mission is to turn out " good " kids. They don't teach confrontation. Also notice that one of the " Scout Laws " is that a scout is " Obedient " . She's a KID... naive to the ways of adults, and especially street-hardened adults like ourselves. Put yourself in her position for a moment, not with the knowledge you have, as an adult man, but with the knowledge and experience of a 15 year old girl. She was afraid, she was raped, and she was still trying to be " good " like she was supposed to be. It took a lot of courage for her to come forward with it at all. Check out the actual data below. It's attitudes like yours that promote the image that girls " want it " and that rape isn't a big deal. Could you look your wife, or sister, or mom, or daughter in the eye and say that? I sure hope not. -WalksAlone The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials. Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police. Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4 Randy wrote: Yes, What he did was wrong. BUT, I have a problem with her testimony that said " I knew it was going to happen so I just nodded my head. " Are you going to tell me that a 15 year old who is apparently in the " Boy " Scouts and understands a little bit about EMS can't get out and run for help or call 911 from her cell phone which I'm sure she probably had one. Nothing that I've read has indicated that she was forced to stay in the back of the ambulance or that she was held down. Sometimes I believe that age is the only victim not the people. Bledsoe wrote:Posted on Fri, Jan. 14, 2005 <BLOCKED::http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dfw.news/local;kw=center6;c2=local; c3=local_homepage;pos=center6;group=rectangle;ord=1105744082746?> <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Ex-Medstar EMT gets 6 years in rape <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> By Melody Mc <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> Star-Telegram Staff Writer <BLOCKED::http://www.dfw.com/images/common/spacer.gif> FORT WORTH - After almost 10 hours of deliberations, jurors Friday sentenced a former MedStar emergency medical technician to six years in prison for sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl in the back of an ambulance. After the verdict was read, the victim's mother took the witness stand and addressed 29-year-old , who had worked for MedStar 14 months. " This city trusted you, we trusted you, to be there to care for victims -- not to create them, " she said, sobbing. The woman told about the devastation he had caused her daughter, who had dreams of becoming a paramedic and was a participant in MedStar's Explorer program. " When she was 3 or 4, her favorite show was Rescue 911, " the woman said. " I don't know how she will ever be able to look at a medical career without these painful memories. " Another of her goals was to save herself for marriage. But you took that choice away from her before she could make that for herself. " During the three-day trial, the girl, now 16, told jurors that she was riding with and Neal Barash, 37, a paramedic, when the assaults occurred in the early morning hours of Dec. 29, 2003. While the ambulance was parked behind a shopping center near Ridgmar Mall awaiting emergency calls, the men pressured her into having sex with them, the girl testified. The girl later told her mother, who reported it to police. , who earlier this week pleaded guilty to three counts of sexual assault of a child under 17, faced anywhere from probation to 20 years in prison. Prosecutor Dixie Bersano, a Tarrant County assistant district attorney, asked jurros to sentence him to nothing less than eight years, saying he violated the community's trust and manipulated a young girl. Defense attorneys Roxanne and Jack Duffy argued for probation, calling the sex " consensual " and saying was a good man who had never been in trouble before. After deliberating Thursday and Friday, the jury sentenced him to six years on one count and two years on the other two counts. The sentences will run concurrently. must serve a minimum of three years before he is eligible for parole. During her victim impact statement, the girl's mother told that her daughter had never been on her first date or alone with a boy her age. " She didn't have the knowledge or experience to fend you off, " she said. " Maybe one day, you will look into your daughter's eyes and be able to teach her from experience how to protect herself from a predator like you. " Afterward, asked -- and the judge agreed -- to allow him to make a statment. He stood in the center of the courtoom and turned and faced the victim and her family, who were being comforted by his estranged wife. He apologized to all of them -- as well as his family and the city of Fort Worth, for the pain and embarrasment he has caused and for violating their trust. " I broke that trust in one single act of selfishness and I apologize, " he said. And while jurors have decided 's fate, the implications of what happened that day in the back of the ambulance are far-reaching and far from over. Barash, the other defendant, remains free on bail, awaiting his trial. A civil lawsuit is pending against the ambulance company and the Boy Scouts of America, which operated the Explorer Program. , the defendant's wife, has filed for divorce. During the trial, sat with the victim and her family to show her support for them. " Nobody should have to go through what they have been through, " said. " My heart, thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:34:46 -0800 (PST), Randy wrote: > > Now hang on Ken, according to mike, Meredeth and others she's the complete innocent victim here. it doesn't matter her status because after all, her mom knows that she hasn't had sex before nor has she been on a date, but out of that she is allowed to subject her self to see and expose her self to other victims of assault, sicknesses, diseases, car wrecks, stabbings, shootings, etc., etc., (you get the point) all at night, where she should safely be at home. It's OK for her to be out late to see mangled bodies but it's not OK for her to go to the movies with a boy from school. And again for all of you who " think " I'm defending the criminal you are totally wrong, as in way wrong. ************* I started riding with my dad and his crews at the age of 12, occasionally. By 15/16, I was riding pretty often, and while I was with my dad's crews, I wasn't under his direct supervision, and not always at his station depending on students, etc. It's probably the single biggest impact I've had in my life - and kept me straight more than anything else could have. I saw early on what drugs, alcohol and violence can do, and I saw the impact someone could have when someone else is in crisis. It was very surely the defining time of my childhood, because I saw the world as it is, not as a teenager could imagine it might be. That's completely and totally different from my being able to make a rational decision in the face of my horomones, and pressure from those in authority over me. I was never raped, for sure, but I was exposed to conversations that in any other situation would be completley inappropriate, and likely were in my presence anyway. That said - even if the 15 year old girl in question stripped naked, laid down on the stretcher and said " take me now, I'm yours, " THESE two medics were old enough to to override any physical impluse they might have had, realize on how many levels this was wrong, and stop her ride-along RIGHT THEN AND THERE. Rather, these two appear to have actively participated in activities with her that were not only illegal, but absolutely, positively unethical - especially for the situation they were in. There is no justification for this, PERIOD. Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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