Graves

[Guest guest]

That's it . You can never prove a theory. You can only disprove it or

support it (or neither). But the evidential support doesn't ever prove it.

For example, although there's a lot of evidence to support the theory of

evolution by natural selection, it can never be proven.

I did go on too long but I was trying to describe the actual process that

scientists have to go through to get their work either presented or

published.

Merry Christmas Everybody!

Take care,

Graves

> I do not wish to offend but I understand that the scientific method is

> to try to disprove a hypothesis and thus would the truth be known. I am

> going away for Christmas I wish all of you merry holidays.

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

My first endo told me the thyroid is a 'regenerative' (sp)gland as are

tonsils...whether or not it functions remains to be seen. My tonsils, which

were removed at age 4 had grown back by the time I was 16.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi -

My guess is that since your remaining thyroid cells weren't damaged during

surgery they could grow to replace the ones that are missing. There must be

some kind of " preprogramming " in some of our cells that " knows " how big an

organ should be.

With RAI, I'd think that the cells would be so damaged that they can't

regenerate most of the time.

Take care,

U.

Graves

> Hi me Beauties, I haven't posted for quiet some time. I had one side of

> my thyroid removed about 30 years ago. I have been told that the removed

> side is growing back and I can indeed feel something. What is the truth

> of this?

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

,

from Basic & Clinical Endocrinology 5th Edition, 1997 by Dr. Francis

Greenspan, pg. 250

" Scarring in the gland following surgery--or regrowth of the gland following

surgery or radioiodine therapy--can present with nodularity. "

For those of us who have radioiodine, he says " patients who have been exposed

to ionizing radiation should be followed carefully for life. Annual studies

should include physical examination of the neck for goiter or nodules. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Daisy, In other words, it's not the thyroid but a nodule. Thanks

[Guest guest]

Not necessarily, . The thyroid tissue can regrow and often nodules

develop, but the new tissue could just be vascular and swollen.

[Guest guest]

,

I love your sarcasm

We are seeing *some* changes with endos, maybe not as quickly as WE would

like, but it is a start....who BETTER to teach an endo what this disease is

about than people with GD? The biggest problem with trying to reach them is

they don't listen I do know one thing for certain, if the day comes I

have to change endos again, I will ONLY look for a women endo. The one I

have now truly listens, I can't say that about ANY male dr. I have had to

deal with, including my kids and grandkids pediatricians.

The letter that wrote to the endo who left her undiagnosed for so long

and let him know it...ironically that dr. now has GD. Anyone want to take

any bets that 2 years from now, that endo will be treating GD patients with

a lot more respect, and maybe by experiencing what we go through will also

beable to educate other endos. I can't help but wonder if this dr. is going

to choose RAI as treatment 1?

I think that maybe writing letters to endos who have no clue might just be

what needs to be done to wake them up. I am not talking about harassing,

nasty letters, but informative letters to back up that what we are going

through is very real, that the diagnosis does make a difference as does the

perscribed treatment.

Take care,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi -

While I don't know about Graves being proven an autoimmune disease. The

person with Graves' is producing antibodies (part of the immune system) that

are attacking self (auto). The antibodies are specific to the TSH receptor

in the thyroid gland stimulating thyroid hormone production. Antibodies

also cause TED but those antibodies aren't the same as the TSH mimicking

ones. They're different but the mechanism causing them is the same.

But it's very frustrating that they continue to ablate and remove thyroids

as a first plan of treatment when the thyroid is just responding normally to

what it " thinks " is TSH.

Take care,

Graves

> Oh Jody, Oh , The doctor was right. A diagnosis doesn't really

> matter. Most of them know only a few things about the thyroid 1. It is

> in the neck, 2. it needs iodine to function, 3. RAI kills it, but most

> importantly 4. the TSH tells them all they need to know. Really! It has

> never been proven that Graves is an autoimmune disease. And unless you

> are a close relative of or are the Almighty you do not have a chance of

> changing their minds. And the Almighty might have difficulty convincing

> them. After all the Almighty only designed the gland, and he/she would

> agree with the endo if he/she the experience the endo has. I am only

> half joking.

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

that's an excellent possibility. The cell receptors probably do differentiate

synthetic hormone from the real stuff.

[Guest guest]

Hi Elaine-

Again, I'm sorry I was testy yesterday. Had a lot going on and sometimes I

just get tired of being exhausted all the time.

I think you're right about what the hormone is linked with. It was so

bizarre when I switched abruptly from Cytomel + Synthroid to Armour. I got

deathly ill for about a month even though there was more thyroid hormone in

the Armour. I was a walking infection and swelled up with water. It's like

my body didn't know how to use the thyroid hormone initially but I perked up

after a while.

Armour is carried in microcellulose and that is often used in other

compounds to delay absorption.

Take care,

Re: Graves

> Hi ,

> How thyroid hormones are absorbed has a lot has to do with what other

> chemicals the thyroid molecules are linked with (their matrix), and this

has

> much to do with their bioavailability and pharmacodynamics. In " in vitro "

> tests using thyroid cells, different effects are seen with different

thyroid

> meds. Similarly, what you eat in the time frame that you take your Armour,

> how quickly or slowly you digest food, interferences with other meds, even

> your body temperature and activity level affect drug absorption. Of

course,

> until we can get a pump that measures what we need, we'll probably never

get

> it right.

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know that . Not disappointed at all. I know that many natural

medicines are linked with other molecules and sometimes work better than

synthetic meds. When they try to reproduce the active chemical in the lab

they fail because they can't get that right interaction.

Elaine is right about delivery but the T3 and T4 structure in both Cytomel +

Synthroid and Armour are identical. However, Armour does have all the

other Ts which I was hoping would maybe be a trigger for the enzyme that

converts T4 to T3 (you'd only need tiny amounts if that was so). But it

didn't work and that's what I find disappointing. I had such hopes that it

would work. I have never felt good on the Armour. I did feel good on the

Cytomel + Synthroid but couldn't stay on it because my BP and HR were too

high.

Take care,

Graves

> Hi Elaine-

> Yeah, but what if you have a problem no matter what you're on. I'm on 4

> gr.

> of Armour which is supposed to be natural (240 mg). I've tried

> everything.

> And I don't understand why cell receptors would differentiate between

> " natural " and " synthetic " since they both have the exact same chemical

> structure with active areas that bind to the receptors. Which would be

> all

> that's needed to activate the cell.

>

> Sorry to disappoint you but natural and synthetic hormones do not

> necessarily have the " exact same chemical stucture. "

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Elaine-

Yeah, but what if you have a problem no matter what you're on. I'm on 4

gr.

of Armour which is supposed to be natural (240 mg). I've tried

everything.

And I don't understand why cell receptors would differentiate between

" natural " and " synthetic " since they both have the exact same chemical

structure with active areas that bind to the receptors. Which would be

all

that's needed to activate the cell.

Sorry to disappoint you but natural and synthetic hormones do not

necessarily have the " exact same chemical stucture. "

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I like your term walking infection. I think that's what happened to me from

that pseudo doc cutting my Armour. My dentist found a massive infection under

my bridge, and had to yank the darned thing off. Now I have to go to a

periodontist for a crown elongation and get the entire bridge done over. This

after 2 new crowns. Even two weeks after getting back on 3 grains of Armour,

I feel hypo, and like you said, a walking infection.

Have you too noticed more dental problems as a result of severe hypo? Have a

good day, Elaine

[Guest guest]

Jumping in here with what I have noticed since being on Armour. I feel like

the quality of conversion of the T4 to T3 in Armour is much better than just

the sythetic T4 to T3. I know I haven't been on it that long (6 mos.) but

it has made a huge difference in how I feel.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Dr. Larsen in Solved:The Riddle of Illness talks about how slow we

are to heal when we're hypo. Broda mentioned this too. My teeth are

definitely worse since RAI and all this hypo business.

I wonder if there is some process going on where your body is hunting for

iodine and confusing fluoride, leaching it from your enamel. Or is it too

much fluoride? My son has enamel loss and white deposits from excess fluoride

in our water supply along with all the fluoride treatments he got when he was

a kid. Live and learn, Elaine

[Guest guest]

,

Was your dr. joking about you sucking on lemons? I eat lemons and limes

quite a bit, more in the summer time than winter...but I also use fresh

lemon in my water and eat it when my water is gone. I am really curious

about this. Thanks.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

With all the excess use of fluoride for years and years, do you think this

could be a factor in AI diseases and their rapid increase?

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I have't tried colloidal silver at all. I kept hearing various pros and cons,

and at one point I thought they were taking it off the market. But I'm

willing to give it a try if you think it'll help.

[Guest guest]

> What generally happens when I get hypo is that even the smallest scratch

> will get a nasty infection along with all the other problems that hypo

> brings.

Hi all,

Yes, just to add my two cents again . . . since becoming subclinically hypo,

my gums are bleeding and painful. In addition, I've had a sinus infection

since mid-Feb and two courses of antibiotics didn't kick it. HOwever,

yesterday I finally felt better after acupuncture twice in a week and some

truly vile herbs the traditional chinese medical doctor gave me. We'll see.

.. .

B

[Guest guest]

This is the kind of thing that Chinese medicine is wonderful for. Such

things as chronic sinus infections are better treated herbally and with

acupuncture to strengthen the system. As for scratches infecting, being slow

to heal, isn't that a clue to possible diabetes? Worth checking.

As for the gum problems, I briefly had dental insurance and got my gums

biopsied they were so bad and found out I had another autoimmune " disease "

(surprise!) called benign mucous membrane pemphigus (not sure I spelled that

last word correctly). Luckily the perio was Chinese and recommended an

herbal toothpaste called Jie Yin, which you can get in most Chinese herb

stores and some Chinese groceries. It costs a buck a tube, and although a

weird dark-gray color, tastes just like minty toothpaste, but really, really

helped heal my cracked, bleeding, blistered gums. Along with that I switched

to a Sonicare electric toothbrush since every movement of the regular one

tore holes in my gums. Didn't hurt that my husband (the

acupuncturist/herbalist, for any of you new folks) added some stuff to my

herbal formula for it too...he tells me I have a " huge " formula with all the

different stuff he's treating me for.

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:53:11 -0600

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: Re: Graves

>

>> What generally happens when I get hypo is that even the smallest scratch

>> will get a nasty infection along with all the other problems that hypo

>> brings.

>

> Hi all,

>

> Yes, just to add my two cents again . . . since becoming subclinically hypo,

> my gums are bleeding and painful. In addition, I've had a sinus infection

> since mid-Feb and two courses of antibiotics didn't kick it. HOwever,

> yesterday I finally felt better after acupuncture twice in a week and some

> truly vile herbs the traditional chinese medical doctor gave me. We'll see.

> . .

>

> B

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yikes! I didn't know there were cons -- why were they taking it off the

market? Although it's only done good for me, if it's that controversial,

I'm reluctant to recommend it to others.

At 12:18 PM 03/20/2001 EST, you wrote:

>I have't tried colloidal silver at all. I kept hearing various pros and

cons,

>and at one point I thought they were taking it off the market. But I'm

>willing to give it a try if you think it'll help.

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

it seems that it is really controversial.

There was a thread of debate messages on the alt.support.thyroid

list and it got pretty heated. I suppose for anyone curious, you can

go to:

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq & as_ugroup=alt.support.thyroid

and do a sarch on alt.support.thyroid for colloidal silver " there are

a lot of links in the posts about both sides of the argument.

Val

[Guest guest]

,

Would colloidal silver work on chronic sinus infections? Also will it react

the way standard antibiotics do...whenever I have had to be on them for the

last 15 years they have given me a yeast infection. I have refused any

antibiotic treatment for the last 3 years.

Thanks,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I've never heard about colloidal silver, but I have been warned that

Echinacea is contraindicated for anyone with immune diseases.

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:05:12 -0800

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Graves

>

> I can only speak from my own experience, as I have not even heard that much

> re Colloidal Silver from others -- the main thing I started using it for

> were rather severe throat and lung infections, which I was prone to when I

> was a smoker. Use to be I could count on at least once or two episodes

> with strong antibiotics per year, but when I switched to Colloidal Silver

> and Echinacea, I never had to do the antibiotics again. One thing, I would

> start taking the remedies as soon as I suspected my lungs or throat were

> going to be compromised - I think that's half the battle. If you follow

> Val's link, you can read about the " controversy " and also I think there's a

> link to a Colloidal Silver web site.

>

> I know what you mean about antibiotics. I use to dose myself with

> acidolpholous (sp?) after each bout with the medications.

>

> At 02:29 PM 03/20/2001 -0500, you wrote:

>> ,

>> Would colloidal silver work on chronic sinus infections? Also will it react

>> the way standard antibiotics do...whenever I have had to be on them for the

>> last 15 years they have given me a yeast infection. I have refused any

>> antibiotic treatment for the last 3 years.

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Jody

>> _________________________________________________________________

>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>>

>>

>>

>> -------------------------------------

>> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

>> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>> ----------------------------------------

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Ah, Jody,

If only he could fly like a bird! Aren't you somewhere cold as I recall? He

is accessible to anyone in the SF bay area though.

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:26:38 -0500

> To: graves_support

> Subject: Re: Graves

>

> Hey Terry,

> I still want your hubby to make house calls

> Jody

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>