Re: Val - T3 questions

[Guest guest]

This sounds like exactly what has been going on with me...can no

longer convert T4....heart goes nuts on Armour. With Straight T3 I

did MUCH better, but them my adrenals got fried, it seems....Tired to

gingerly get back on Armour and had horrific panic attacks.....Wish I

ahd a way of getting timed release T-3....

~Inga

Found it quicker than I thought. If you actually have the book than

chapter 4, case one,

two & four talk about conversion block. Chapter 7 is about the

adrenal connection and

page 101 at the end of that chapter he talks further about the

conversion block.

Also, chapter 8, especially page 114 he talks a lot about this as

well...

" The more serious thyroid deficiency will respond only poorly to this

regime [T4 therapy],

since it takes no account of the adrenal connection, conversion block

or receptor uptake

resistance. The patient may feel an intial benefit, but within days

or weeks this may wear

off; or the patient may soon start to become aware of tremors and

palpatations. " ...

" The first is to understand that the 5'-deiodinase enzymes carrying

out the T4 to T3

conversion may be quite deficient or not even work at all. The build

up of unused T4 is

then inevitable, and within a relatievly short time there may be

toxic levels present with

palpatations, a general lack of well-being, stomach upstes and so on. "

Anyway, thats only a bit of what he mentions in regards to conversion

block.

> > > Something about a problem with the enzyme needed for

conversion not

> > > being up to par.

> > >

> > >> .

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>>This sounds like exactly what has been going on with me...can no

longer convert T4....heart goes nuts on Armour. With Straight T3 I

did MUCH better, but them my adrenals got fried, it seems....Tired to

gingerly get back on Armour and had horrific panic attacks.....Wish I

ahd a way of getting timed release T-3....<<

I would be willing to bet that your panick attacks are from weak adrenals and

not the Armour. Armoru only brings weak adrenal symptoms out as thyroid cannot

get into the cells withotu enough cortisol, then it builds up in the blood ands

your adrenals start releasing adrenaline.. then you get trouble!

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

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[Guest guest]

Val,

This could very well be, as I had a year of pure severe stress, and I

ahve thought that myself, but why do you suppose I can tolerate 25

mcg of Cytomel but not 1/2 grain of Armour?

Do you thik I should double up on the corticosteroids and try a tiny

smidgen of Armour again? Currently, I ahve been on nothing anymore

except for 2.5 mg of prednisolone. I can't afford to get more h/c

right now....

Thanks,

Inga

>>This sounds like exactly what has been going on with me...can no

longer convert T4....heart goes nuts on Armour. With Straight T3 I

did MUCH better, but them my adrenals got fried, it seems....Tired to

gingerly get back on Armour and had horrific panic attacks.....Wish I

ahd a way of getting timed release T-3....<<

I would be willing to bet that your panick attacks are from weak

adrenals and not the Armour. Armoru only brings weak adrenal symptoms

out as thyroid cannot get into the cells withotu enough cortisol,

then it builds up in the blood ands your adrenals start releasing

adrenaline.. then you get trouble!

[Guest guest]

Val,

This could very well be, as I had a year of pure severe stress, and I

ahve thought that myself, but why do you suppose I can tolerate 25

mcg of Cytomel but not 1/2 grain of Armour?

Do you thik I should double up on the corticosteroids and try a tiny

smidgen of Armour again? Currently, I ahve been on nothing anymore

except for 2.5 mg of prednisolone. I can't afford to get more h/c

right now....

Thanks,

Inga

>>This sounds like exactly what has been going on with me...can no

longer convert T4....heart goes nuts on Armour. With Straight T3 I

did MUCH better, but them my adrenals got fried, it seems....Tired to

gingerly get back on Armour and had horrific panic attacks.....Wish I

ahd a way of getting timed release T-3....<<

I would be willing to bet that your panick attacks are from weak

adrenals and not the Armour. Armoru only brings weak adrenal symptoms

out as thyroid cannot get into the cells withotu enough cortisol,

then it builds up in the blood ands your adrenals start releasing

adrenaline.. then you get trouble!

[Guest guest]

I know several people that their bodies accept T3 more readily than T4.

T4 must be converted to be useful in the body and that takes the proper

enzymes and other hormones. But the fact is to get well you need to have

that T4 reserve as well as the other thyroid hormones in Armour. You

could try doubling the Pred 5MG is close to equivalent of 20MG HC. But I

have not found it works as well for AF as HC, so I would try to get some

as soon as you can afford it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

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[Guest guest]

I know several people that their bodies accept T3 more readily than T4.

T4 must be converted to be useful in the body and that takes the proper

enzymes and other hormones. But the fact is to get well you need to have

that T4 reserve as well as the other thyroid hormones in Armour. You

could try doubling the Pred 5MG is close to equivalent of 20MG HC. But I

have not found it works as well for AF as HC, so I would try to get some

as soon as you can afford it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

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http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

What if one is simply not convertng or hardly converting T4 to T3

hardly at all? How would I figure that out?

Dunno, but I think it may be a combination of adrenal stress, so that

I can not handle the Armour, and not being able to convert the T4

well either. (which is very common among mercury toxic folks)

With Straight T3 my temps come up real nice, but with Armour, they

NEVER, EVER came up even when I was on so much my heart was racing

right away.

I used to be on 5 mg prednisolone for a long time, but gradually

became unable to tolerate the Armour. Maybe 5 mg of prednisoolone was

just not enough for me and the stress I have been under this year.

What then? Cut back on Armour, untl my adrenals can handle it again?

that's what I tried to do, and then I switched form prednisolonoe to

H/C.

I felt the best when I slowly got off of Armour and h/c completely,

but that only lasted for about 2 months until I crashed.

Thoughts?

~Inga

I know several people that their bodies accept T3 more readily than T4.

T4 must be converted to be useful in the body and that takes the proper

enzymes and other hormones. But the fact is to get well you need to have

that T4 reserve as well as the other thyroid hormones in Armour. You

could try doubling the Pred 5MG is close to equivalent of 20MG HC. But I

have not found it works as well for AF as HC, so I would try to get some

as soon as you can afford it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

What if one is simply not convertng or hardly converting T4 to T3

hardly at all? How would I figure that out?

Dunno, but I think it may be a combination of adrenal stress, so that

I can not handle the Armour, and not being able to convert the T4

well either. (which is very common among mercury toxic folks)

With Straight T3 my temps come up real nice, but with Armour, they

NEVER, EVER came up even when I was on so much my heart was racing

right away.

I used to be on 5 mg prednisolone for a long time, but gradually

became unable to tolerate the Armour. Maybe 5 mg of prednisoolone was

just not enough for me and the stress I have been under this year.

What then? Cut back on Armour, untl my adrenals can handle it again?

that's what I tried to do, and then I switched form prednisolonoe to

H/C.

I felt the best when I slowly got off of Armour and h/c completely,

but that only lasted for about 2 months until I crashed.

Thoughts?

~Inga

I know several people that their bodies accept T3 more readily than T4.

T4 must be converted to be useful in the body and that takes the proper

enzymes and other hormones. But the fact is to get well you need to have

that T4 reserve as well as the other thyroid hormones in Armour. You

could try doubling the Pred 5MG is close to equivalent of 20MG HC. But I

have not found it works as well for AF as HC, so I would try to get some

as soon as you can afford it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

What if one is simply not convertng or hardly converting T4 to T3

hardly at all? How would I figure that out?

Dunno, but I think it may be a combination of adrenal stress, so that

I can not handle the Armour, and not being able to convert the T4

well either. (which is very common among mercury toxic folks)

With Straight T3 my temps come up real nice, but with Armour, they

NEVER, EVER came up even when I was on so much my heart was racing

right away.

I used to be on 5 mg prednisolone for a long time, but gradually

became unable to tolerate the Armour. Maybe 5 mg of prednisoolone was

just not enough for me and the stress I have been under this year.

What then? Cut back on Armour, untl my adrenals can handle it again?

that's what I tried to do, and then I switched form prednisolonoe to

H/C.

I felt the best when I slowly got off of Armour and h/c completely,

but that only lasted for about 2 months until I crashed.

Thoughts?

~Inga

I know several people that their bodies accept T3 more readily than T4.

T4 must be converted to be useful in the body and that takes the proper

enzymes and other hormones. But the fact is to get well you need to have

that T4 reserve as well as the other thyroid hormones in Armour. You

could try doubling the Pred 5MG is close to equivalent of 20MG HC. But I

have not found it works as well for AF as HC, so I would try to get some

as soon as you can afford it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>What if one is simply not convertng or hardly converting T4 to T3

hardly at all? How would I figure that out?<<

If you are nto converting well your T4 will continue to rise but your T3 will

stay below range. Mine did that for years.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>What if one is simply not convertng or hardly converting T4 to T3

hardly at all? How would I figure that out?<<

If you are nto converting well your T4 will continue to rise but your T3 will

stay below range. Mine did that for years.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>What if one is simply not convertng or hardly converting T4 to T3

hardly at all? How would I figure that out?<<

If you are nto converting well your T4 will continue to rise but your T3 will

stay below range. Mine did that for years.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

On zero Armour for about 2 months, and varying amounts of Cytomel

(usually 25 mcg, but I went both higher and lower with no real

noticable difference) my Free T4 was at the last number before it

would drop off range (low) and my Free T3 was just about smack dab in

the middle, or perhaps just a smidgen lower.

These are the numbers they got from the first ER visit last month

when I went into severe crisis that they told me was not adrenal.

(.....since I was not skinny, tan and hypotensive.....LOLOLOL.) I

immediately put myself on the equivalent of 40 mg of h/c for abot 2

days,. and then down to abot 30 and then down to 20 and now 10...sort

of my own idea, and I think it saved me.

(My TSH was 3.17)

Do you think that test suggests that I am pretty much converting

fairly well then? What if my receptor sites are blocked off and all

that stuff is just swimming around, T3 and T4? (Although the T3

raises my temps where the T4 doesn't) I had a doctor do bioenergetic

testing on me some time back, and she said there was no use giving me

the Armour again at that time becasue she said altohugh I needed it,

" my body wasn't using it " . then later on she gave me some (3 grains)

anyway...that was just before I found out I coudl get it msyelf......

Thoughts???

Thanks,

Inga

>>What if one is simply not convertng or hardly converting T4 to T3

hardly at all? How would I figure that out?<<

If you are nto converting well your T4 will continue to rise but your

T3 will stay below range. Mine did that for years.

[Guest guest]

Go to http://www.wilsonstemperaturesyndrome.com

He may list doctors that will treat with time released t3.

You could also go to a compounding pharmacy and ask who does in your area.

Hensley

Re: Val - T3 questions

Val,

This could very well be, as I had a year of pure severe stress, and I

ahve thought that myself, but why do you suppose I can tolerate 25

mcg of Cytomel but not 1/2 grain of Armour?

Do you thik I should double up on the corticosteroids and try a tiny

smidgen of Armour again? Currently, I ahve been on nothing anymore

except for 2.5 mg of prednisolone. I can't afford to get more h/c

right now....

Thanks,

Inga

>>This sounds like exactly what has been going on with me...can no

longer convert T4....heart goes nuts on Armour. With Straight T3 I

did MUCH better, but them my adrenals got fried, it seems....Tired to

gingerly get back on Armour and had horrific panic attacks.....Wish I

ahd a way of getting timed release T-3....<<

I would be willing to bet that your panick attacks are from weak

adrenals and not the Armour. Armoru only brings weak adrenal symptoms

out as thyroid cannot get into the cells withotu enough cortisol,

then it builds up in the blood ands your adrenals start releasing

adrenaline.. then you get trouble!

[Guest guest]

Finding somebody is not the problem....finding the money is....

I appreciate the effort though, ..

~Inga

Go to http://www.wilsonstemperaturesyndrome.com

He may list doctors that will treat with time released t3.

You could also go to a compounding pharmacy and ask who does in your

area.

Hensley

Re: Val - T3 questions

Val,

This could very well be, as I had a year of pure severe stress, and I

ahve thought that myself, but why do you suppose I can tolerate 25

mcg of Cytomel but not 1/2 grain of Armour?

Do you thik I should double up on the corticosteroids and try a tiny

smidgen of Armour again? Currently, I ahve been on nothing anymore

except for 2.5 mg of prednisolone. I can't afford to get more h/c

right now....

Thanks,

Inga

>>This sounds like exactly what has been going on with me...can no

longer convert T4....heart goes nuts on Armour. With Straight T3 I

did MUCH better, but them my adrenals got fried, it seems....Tired to

gingerly get back on Armour and had horrific panic attacks.....Wish I

ahd a way of getting timed release T-3....<<

I would be willing to bet that your panick attacks are from weak

adrenals and not the Armour. Armoru only brings weak adrenal symptoms

out as thyroid cannot get into the cells withotu enough cortisol,

then it builds up in the blood ands your adrenals start releasing

adrenaline.. then you get trouble!

[Guest guest]

My thoughts are that you should not speculate abotu adrenal fatigue. You

need to have the Canary Club labs done. It will tell you the tissue

levels oif thyroid in your body as well as the cortisol rythym. If you

have any tyoe of thyroid rsistance this testign wil lshow it up .

--

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My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>Go to http://www.wilsonstemperaturesyndrome.com

He may list doctors that will treat with time released t3.<<

I wish you would PLEASE not send people to this site. Let me tell you why. First

we believe that T3 by itself is JUST as poor a treatment for hypo as T4 alone

is. Neither will affect a complete treatment. Personally I think 's

Syndrome is BUNK and this is also the consensus of great doctor's like

Peatfield. NEXT, I have tried EVERY slow release T3 out there, and they are

HORRIBLE. I am one that requires more T3 than Armoru has in it so a GOOD slow

releae T3 would have been a great boon to me. On even double the amounts of SRT3

than I take of regular Cytomel, I go seriously hypo. My T3 bottoms out on blood

testing and saliva testing. If people need extra T3 they really should just get

used to multidosing. It is NOT that hard. I do it every day with working full

time, tracking my glucose levels, timing my insulin and once you make it a part

of your routine, it is as easy as pie.

Next, I have seen several people that have totally trashed their adrenals by

being put on T3 meds when they only had weak adrenals. Ask Deborah on the

General Thyroid Forum at STTM.. Link in my signature line. She has been battling

horrible adrenal problems ever since being put on T3 only meds form a doctor.

SO YES o this adrenal forum I ask you PLEASE be cautious recommending T3 meds.

They are a life saveer fo r me, but they are NOT the first thing to try in

thyroid resistance. Alot of testing is needed to rule out adrenal problems

before T3 should evne be tried.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store (Closing after Xmas!!!)

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http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

What helps convert T4 to T3? I may have this same

problem.

--- wrote:

> I know several people that their bodies accept T3

> more readily than T4.

> T4 must be converted to be useful in the body and

> that takes the proper

> enzymes and other hormones. But the fact is to get

> well you need to have

> that T4 reserve as well as the other thyroid

> hormones in Armour. You

> could try doubling the Pred 5MG is close to

> equivalent of 20MG HC. But I

> have not found it works as well for AF as HC, so I

> would try to get some

> as soon as you can afford it.

>

> --

> Artistic

> Grooming- Hurricane WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

> (Closing after Xmas!!!)

>

> http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>>What helps convert T4 to T3? I may have this same

problem.<<

Selenium and cortisol, but too much cortisol stops the conversion as well, so it

needs to be right. I tried selenium and it did nothing for me, but on 30MG of HC

I was finally able to get my T3 slightly over range for the first time in my

life. I feel I was treating HIGH cortiosl thogh and taking HC reset my rythym to

more normal levels.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Thanks . I'm always baffled at how you can keep

track of all the different things you have to take

throughout the day and at specific times....it sure

can consume your mind!

--- T wrote:

> >>What helps convert T4 to T3? I may have this same

> problem.<<

>

> Selenium and cortisol, but too much cortisol stops

> the conversion as well, so it needs to be right. I

> tried selenium and it did nothing for me, but on

> 30MG of HC I was finally able to get my T3 slightly

> over range for the first time in my life. I feel I

> was treating HIGH cortiosl thogh and taking HC reset

> my rythym to more normal levels.

>

> --

> Artistic

> Grooming- Hurricane WV

> My Ebay Jewelry Store

> http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>First we believe that T3 by itself is JUST as poor a treatment for hypo as T4

alone is.

Neither will affect a complete treatment. Personally I think 's Syndrome

is BUNK and

>this is also the consensus of great doctor's like Peatfield.

Dr. Peatfield is also NOT a fan of 's Syndrome but he DOES prescribe T3

only

treatment in extreme cases of t4 to t3 conversion problems. (he does not use

T3 in the

same manner as Dr. , he uses it differently) . I will glady post direct

quotes from

his book.

> SO YES o this adrenal forum I ask you PLEASE be cautious recommending T3

meds.

They are a life saveer fo r me, but they are NOT the first thing to try in

thyroid resistance.

Alot of testing is needed to rule out adrenal problems before T3 should evne be

tried.

>

I agree but Dr. peatfield use T3 only treatment for conversion problems NOT

resistance

problems - these are seperate issues...at least according to Dr. Peatfield.

Again I can post

quotes.

And just as taking T3 can damage weak adrenals so can taking t4 with conversion

block

problems. Taking T4 with an extreme conversion block will wreak hovoc on

already weak

adrenals.

[Guest guest]

>> Taking T4 with an extreme conversion block will wreak hovoc on already weak

adrenals.<<

WE are in com0plete agreement. I have even seen Dr Peatfield give T3 to a person

wiht severe adrenal fatigue but only with WAY more adrenal support than I would

feel comfy recommending! LOL Actually I believe it was the 25 years I was on T4

meds that finally trashed my adrneals.

--

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[Guest guest]

How is it different with resistance?

-- Re: Val - T3 questions

>First we believe that T3 by itself is JUST as poor a treatment for hypo as

T4 alone is.

Neither will affect a complete treatment. Personally I think 's

Syndrome is BUNK and

>this is also the consensus of great doctor's like Peatfield.

Dr. Peatfield is also NOT a fan of 's Syndrome but he DOES prescribe

T3 only

treatment in extreme cases of t4 to t3 conversion problems. (he does not use

T3 in the

same manner as Dr. , he uses it differently) . I will glady post

direct quotes from

his book.

> SO YES o this adrenal forum I ask you PLEASE be cautious recommending T3

meds.

They are a life saveer fo r me, but they are NOT the first thing to try in

thyroid resistance.

Alot of testing is needed to rule out adrenal problems before T3 should evne

be tried.

>

I agree but Dr. peatfield use T3 only treatment for conversion problems NOT

resistance

problems - these are seperate issues...at least according to Dr. Peatfield.

Again I can post

quotes.

And just as taking T3 can damage weak adrenals so can taking t4 with

conversion block

problems. Taking T4 with an extreme conversion block will wreak hovoc on

already weak

adrenals.

[Guest guest]

Recently someone referenced pg 114 of Peatfield & 5-deiodinase enzyme

deficiency with regard to poor T4 -> T3 conversion.

OK...I'm being lazy & didn't look it up...

Does anyone , know how to improve that enzyme deficiency, if it is

even possible?

>

> >> Taking T4 with an extreme conversion block will wreak hovoc on

already weak

> adrenals.<<

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/01/2007 09:59:55 GMT Standard Time, robinahy@...

writes:

Anyway, selenium is one way of helping the conversion.

There is also a product from Nutri Ltd in the UK called T-Convert, it

contains something called guggul something or other?

Mo

NOVA Counselling & Healing Services

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