No Subject

[Guest guest]

boy I can really relate. I too had a pathological compulsion to join an

alternative program. It was only by hearing it on this list over and

over that I would be fine without a program that I grew to believe it.

It was not easy. The disempowerment and self-doubt which is instilled

runs deep.

Ultimately, I didn't join an alternative program because there weren't

any. The compulsion to find one dissipated with time.

Apple

> Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me

stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized

that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had

convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the

perspective this realization gave me.

>

> Still, there are other much better programs out there, as at least

one other person has pointed out, " Women for Sobriety, " etc.

> ---

> Kayleigh

>

[Guest guest]

boy I can really relate. I too had a pathological compulsion to join an

alternative program. It was only by hearing it on this list over and

over that I would be fine without a program that I grew to believe it.

It was not easy. The disempowerment and self-doubt which is instilled

runs deep.

Ultimately, I didn't join an alternative program because there weren't

any. The compulsion to find one dissipated with time.

Apple

> Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me

stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized

that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had

convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the

perspective this realization gave me.

>

> Still, there are other much better programs out there, as at least

one other person has pointed out, " Women for Sobriety, " etc.

> ---

> Kayleigh

>

[Guest guest]

go to /group/12-step-free, then go to " my space "

then go to " vault " .

Apple

> In a message dated 11/19/99 4:47:37 PM Central Standard Time,

> appledtp@... writes:

>

> << Congratulations to Rose for finding this new poster which

should

> be posted in every XA clubhouse & church basement.

> See idiocy.jpg in the vault.

> hee hee hee >>

>

> How do I get to the vault?

[Guest guest]

go to /group/12-step-free, then go to " my space "

then go to " vault " .

Apple

> In a message dated 11/19/99 4:47:37 PM Central Standard Time,

> appledtp@... writes:

>

> << Congratulations to Rose for finding this new poster which

should

> be posted in every XA clubhouse & church basement.

> See idiocy.jpg in the vault.

> hee hee hee >>

>

> How do I get to the vault?

[Guest guest]

go to /group/12-step-free, then go to " my space "

then go to " vault " .

Apple

> In a message dated 11/19/99 4:47:37 PM Central Standard Time,

> appledtp@... writes:

>

> << Congratulations to Rose for finding this new poster which

should

> be posted in every XA clubhouse & church basement.

> See idiocy.jpg in the vault.

> hee hee hee >>

>

> How do I get to the vault?

[Guest guest]

Cool hair!

Is it still green?

Apple

> Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from

AA I

> have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted

forms of

> therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD

issues

> for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills.

Granted I

> DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have

had

> enough therepy to last me for quite awhile.

> If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg

[Guest guest]

Cool hair!

Is it still green?

Apple

> Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from

AA I

> have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted

forms of

> therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD

issues

> for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills.

Granted I

> DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have

had

> enough therepy to last me for quite awhile.

> If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg

[Guest guest]

Cool hair!

Is it still green?

Apple

> Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from

AA I

> have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted

forms of

> therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD

issues

> for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills.

Granted I

> DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have

had

> enough therepy to last me for quite awhile.

> If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg

[Guest guest]

Thanks and yes, it is still green as can be. It has been green since July.

I think I might do another color soon for a change of pace.

; > )

Re: No Subject

> Cool hair!

> Is it still green?

> Apple

>

> > Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from

> AA I

> > have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted

> forms of

> > therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD

> issues

> > for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills.

> Granted I

> > DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have

> had

> > enough therepy to last me for quite awhile.

> > If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Meet your Match! CLICK HERE to go to One & Only Internet Personals

> http://clickhere./click/1705

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks and yes, it is still green as can be. It has been green since July.

I think I might do another color soon for a change of pace.

; > )

Re: No Subject

> Cool hair!

> Is it still green?

> Apple

>

> > Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from

> AA I

> > have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted

> forms of

> > therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD

> issues

> > for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills.

> Granted I

> > DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have

> had

> > enough therepy to last me for quite awhile.

> > If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Meet your Match! CLICK HERE to go to One & Only Internet Personals

> http://clickhere./click/1705

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks and yes, it is still green as can be. It has been green since July.

I think I might do another color soon for a change of pace.

; > )

Re: No Subject

> Cool hair!

> Is it still green?

> Apple

>

> > Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from

> AA I

> > have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted

> forms of

> > therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD

> issues

> > for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills.

> Granted I

> > DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have

> had

> > enough therepy to last me for quite awhile.

> > If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Meet your Match! CLICK HERE to go to One & Only Internet Personals

> http://clickhere./click/1705

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

what is CBT? and MI/CD?

[Guest guest]

what is CBT? and MI/CD?

[Guest guest]

what is CBT? and MI/CD?

[Guest guest]

CBT - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

MI/CD - Mental Illness/Chemical Dependancy

Re: No Subject

> what is CBT? and MI/CD?

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.

> http://clickhere./click/1702

>

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Me too. " Isn't it odd. Way back when, the first time anybody ever suggested

AA, I had just dismissed it out of hand. " Join a goofy little cult? Get

religion? Couldn't possibly work for me. " I had thought I needed help, but

figured that something more or less psychiatric and one-on-one was the way

to go.

It took me 13 years to learn that I had been right all along. For a while I

had the idea that since AA wasn't working I would just have to drink and

control it as best I could. At that point the only 'alternative' I had ever

heard of was something called AAARG, for American Atheists Addiction

Recovery Group. Which, it seems, only existed for about 5 minutes, and only

in Denver.

Eventually I started going to RR meetings. After the initial enthusiasm wore

off (FINALLY, there's SOMETHING ELSE!!) it seemed pointless. Since I had

already decided to quit drinking, why learn another way of doing it that

looked good on paper but might or might not 'help'? The thing was, even

though I didn't feel powerless any more, I still had some of the AA stuff.

Among it, the desire to have people recognize and applaud my sobriety, the

compulsion to 'justify' my non-drinking. Plus the compulsion to 'help

people' and feel smug in my 'humility'.

The other thing going on was a sort of obsession with recovery itself. This

had been one of the things that bugged me when I was at the height of my AA

involvement. There was all this 'recovery talk' going on in my head all the

time. Life was one big meeting. It completely disrupted my life, and made it

hard to think about anything else like, for instance, work! I truly needed

to reclaim my brain.

The bottom line, I think, is that people either decide to quit or they

don't. I do best when I just don't drink, and forget the whole thing. Even

the little bit of posting I do in this group is a sort of 'backsliding', or

a remnant of my recovery disorder.

--wally

-----Original Message-----

>boy I can really relate. I too had a pathological compulsion to join an

>alternative program. It was only by hearing it on this list over and

>over that I would be fine without a program that I grew to believe it.

>It was not easy. The disempowerment and self-doubt which is instilled

>runs deep.

>Ultimately, I didn't join an alternative program because there weren't

>any. The compulsion to find one dissipated with time.

>Apple

>

>

>> Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me

>stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized

>that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had

>convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the

>perspective this realization gave me.

>>

>> Still, there are other much better programs out there, as at least

>one other person has pointed out, " Women for Sobriety, " etc.

>> ---

>> Kayleigh

>>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

>http://clickhere./click/1701

>

>

>

>-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

>-- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

PS. the reason I'm 400 behind (though not really) is that I've actually

" dropped out " of 12sf. I had to

sign up again to post something that I found and then once there I read

the latest 12 posts.

Thanks Wally for reminding me why. During the 3 months I was reading

and participating, I found

that I was feeling like I had never left XA at all. So I'm off to life

again after a minor relapse.

" wally t. " wrote:

Even

> the little bit of posting I do in this group is a sort of

'backsliding', or

> a remnant of my recovery disorder.

[Guest guest]

Ann,

I have been getting great help from SOS. Their website is

www.unhooked.com.

There are alot of great thoughts on addiction at www.rational.org/recovery.

Both have helped me alot. Also the Stanton Peele website www.peele.net..hope

this helps.

C.

[Guest guest]

Very nice dave.

" dave " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9909

> here is a link to my review of big book on amazon.com. i think i was

> too easy on it.

>

> dave

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-glance/-/AA6HKDLM17Y6H

/0

> 91685633x25000943649070/103-1134632-6048643

>

[Guest guest]

Very nice dave.

" dave " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9909

> here is a link to my review of big book on amazon.com. i think i was

> too easy on it.

>

> dave

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-glance/-/AA6HKDLM17Y6H

/0

> 91685633x25000943649070/103-1134632-6048643

>

[Guest guest]

Very nice dave.

" dave " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9909

> here is a link to my review of big book on amazon.com. i think i was

> too easy on it.

>

> dave

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-glance/-/AA6HKDLM17Y6H

/0

> 91685633x25000943649070/103-1134632-6048643

>

[Guest guest]

I've just given you your first vote, Dave. This is a virgin sit as it's for

the large print edition - so there are no 5 star reviews; it would be fun to

just diarrhoea all over it.

No Subject

> here is a link to my review of big book on amazon.com. i think i was

> too easy on it.

>

> dave

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-glance/-/AA6HKDLM17Y6H/0

> 91685633x25000943649070/103-1134632-6048643

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

> http://clickhere./click/1701

>

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've just given you your first vote, Dave. This is a virgin sit as it's for

the large print edition - so there are no 5 star reviews; it would be fun to

just diarrhoea all over it.

No Subject

> here is a link to my review of big book on amazon.com. i think i was

> too easy on it.

>

> dave

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-glance/-/AA6HKDLM17Y6H/0

> 91685633x25000943649070/103-1134632-6048643

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

> http://clickhere./click/1701

>

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've just given you your first vote, Dave. This is a virgin sit as it's for

the large print edition - so there are no 5 star reviews; it would be fun to

just diarrhoea all over it.

No Subject

> here is a link to my review of big book on amazon.com. i think i was

> too easy on it.

>

> dave

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-glance/-/AA6HKDLM17Y6H/0

> 91685633x25000943649070/103-1134632-6048643

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to tablesaws.

> http://clickhere./click/1701

>

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I read that B.I.T.E. model and it describes my parents to a T. Its almost

spooky. Of course, I've always seen AA as just one big version of my

family. Dysfunctional and completely full of sh**.

Matt

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: No Subject

>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:05:34 -0800

>

>Please folks, if you have time, submit your testimonial to

>Hassan's site. It's important. His dislaimer for AA groups states that

>AA does not fit the BITE model. Here's a link which describes the BITE

>model. You tell me. We need to speak up, because inclusion of AA among

>his " groups of concern " is important, but his disclaimer is innacurate.

>He also states that some sites he links use words such as

> " brainwashing " or " deprogramming " A gentle reminder that AA ITSELF says

>that " the program is brainwashing, but our brains needed washing " would

>be helpful.

>Thanks,

>Apple

>

>http://www.freedomofmind.com/resource/srmind.htm

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Easy as one, two, FREE! FREE shipping, Gift Wrap and

>ShimmerRing with any prurchase at iBeauty.com We have

>over 500 brands of frangrances, treatment, cosmetics.

>http://clickhere./click/1790

>

>-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

>-- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

______________________________________________________