Guest guest Posted October 7, 1999 Report Share Posted October 7, 1999 Think back to the day or moment before you walked into the first AA meeting. There is not one bit of AAprogramming in your mind. You had probably been acting like a drunk, and thinking like a drunk but you weren't one till you walked in and said their " magic words " . That's when you bacame one. What were you going there for? Were you saying to yourself that you were never going to drink again ever! or were you going to go there to learn to moderate. If it was moderation, I'm quite surprised you didn't drink within the first week or month as soon as you heard that " relapse is normal " . Most of the moderation drinkers used the program for keeping out of trouble by only drinking once in a while, or they figure out that they don't need to come back, they just need to cut back on the drinking, and succeed well at it. This is planned moderation and is quite possible with or without AA. On the other hand, I'll bet your choice was " never to drink another drop again as long as I live, and i'll do what ever it takes so tht i don't continue ruining my life and my love and pocketbook and my criminal record, and my credit and my reputation and ...... And so you fell into the " it's the only way to get get help " trap that Ann Landers, or your mother or your ex or the teacher or ??? told you about. So did we all. Some of us were lucky to get out alive. They fed you a lot of crap, and never taught you the one thing you went there to learn which was how to quit altogher and forever, and to not change your mind. Instead you learned that you can never quit, that you were diseased and were destined to prison insanity or death if you ever did drink again and you learned it so well that you want to go have a drink to congratulate your self for quitting AA. If you have'nt spent time on WWW.rational.org/recovery web site I highly suggest it. it is pure abstinance, and very heavy in anti-12 step rhetoric, and right ly so. A good dose of Jack T. might be good for you at this juncture. If you can get ALL of the 12 step crap out of your head, and understand that you drank only because it felt so good--damn the consequences. , but if you aren't yet very! very! deprogrammed, I would think right now a drink or ten would send you running back to AA, which would be the worst thing you could do to yourself. That AA programming is why you are confused. You leapt out of AA with your brain and your guts and your humanity. But you have to unlearn the deep programming. Fortunately, you can do it in just a few days or weeks if you put your mind to it. 12sf and www.AAdeprogramming.com is a great start, try www.rational.org/recovery Congratulations for finding your way here. And most important of all, GET ANGRY! GET DEPROGRAMMED! Then GET OUT and go have a life. > > kikibaby6-@... wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8490 > > help! I'm confused. I made this leap I thought and stopped going to my > > AA group. I'd had enough. No more meetings 3 times a week, no more > > ridiculous sponsor direction, no more moral judegmements and threats > of > > death if I go out or don't do as I'm told. I felt free and > > enthusiastic. AA has helped me. I stayed sober for over 21/2 years. > i'm > > still sober except for the near beer i drank a couple of days ago. in > > my group i'd probably lose all of my time as a result. i wanted to go > > into a bar and have a goodbye AA tequila or something but i walked in > > and i felt dirty, like i shouldn't be there. just wrong. this whole > > moral tip engulfed me. eventually i planned to go out and break my > > sobriety. my problem is that i told friends. they aren't in the > program > > but they saw me drink and they helped through the program. they are > > adament that if i start i will begin to use it to deal with problems > > and won't be able to drink responsably. so why take the chance. my > > argument is that i agree, things could go that way or not, but i want > > to try just the same. i think it is possible to learn moderation. > being > > sober has helped me learn that there is more to do than drink. i've > > learned to hang out with people and just chat. that used to make me > > really nervous. so, i'm not asking to go out and get trashed every > day. > > i just want to be able to decide for myself. i'm not a low bottom > > drunk. thanks. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 Howdy. Personally, I don't drink. The reason is that I'm afraid that if I did, I might be overcome by an irresistable compulsion to read the Big Book, and then one thing would lead to another, and then I might go to a meeting, and soon I'd be right back where I started -- hopelessly lost in a Twisted Maze of AA Madness. Based on your own history, and all kinds of things that only you could possibly judge, moderation might be a sensible option for you at some point in time. But waiting a while might be a smart thing to do. Taking a drink when you have only recently emerged from 2.5 years of AA brainwashing, and still angry about the whole thing, just seems risky to me. If you put it off for a while, then at the very least you will have shown that you can abstain without AA if you want to. -- wally No Subject >help! I'm confused. I made this leap I thought and stopped going to my >AA group. I'd had enough. No more meetings 3 times a week, no more >ridiculous sponsor direction, no more moral judegmements and threats of >death if I go out or don't do as I'm told. I felt free and >enthusiastic. AA has helped me. I stayed sober for over 21/2 years. i'm >still sober except for the near beer i drank a couple of days ago. in >my group i'd probably lose all of my time as a result. i wanted to go >into a bar and have a goodbye AA tequila or something but i walked in >and i felt dirty, like i shouldn't be there. just wrong. this whole >moral tip engulfed me. eventually i planned to go out and break my >sobriety. my problem is that i told friends. they aren't in the program >but they saw me drink and they helped through the program. they are >adament that if i start i will begin to use it to deal with problems >and won't be able to drink responsably. so why take the chance. my >argument is that i agree, things could go that way or not, but i want >to try just the same. i think it is possible to learn moderation. being >sober has helped me learn that there is more to do than drink. i've >learned to hang out with people and just chat. that used to make me >really nervous. so, i'm not asking to go out and get trashed every day. >i just want to be able to decide for myself. i'm not a low bottom >drunk. thanks. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service. Protect your files before >you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL >today. http://clickhere./click/938 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 i think wally offers some good advise " wally t. " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8507 > Howdy. > > Personally, I don't drink. The reason is that I'm afraid that if I did, I > might be overcome by an irresistable compulsion to read the Big Book, and > then one thing would lead to another, and then I might go to a meeting, and > soon I'd be right back where I started -- hopelessly lost in a Twisted Maze > of AA Madness. > > Based on your own history, and all kinds of things that only you could > possibly judge, moderation might be a sensible option for you at some point > in time. > > But waiting a while might be a smart thing to do. Taking a drink when you > have only recently emerged from 2.5 years of AA brainwashing, and still > angry about the whole thing, just seems risky to me. If you put it off for a > while, then at the very least you will have shown that you can abstain > without AA if you want to. > > -- wally > > > No Subject > > > >help! I'm confused. I made this leap I thought and stopped going to my > >AA group. I'd had enough. No more meetings 3 times a week, no more > >ridiculous sponsor direction, no more moral judegmements and threats of > >death if I go out or don't do as I'm told. I felt free and > >enthusiastic. AA has helped me. I stayed sober for over 21/2 years. i'm > >still sober except for the near beer i drank a couple of days ago. in > >my group i'd probably lose all of my time as a result. i wanted to go > >into a bar and have a goodbye AA tequila or something but i walked in > >and i felt dirty, like i shouldn't be there. just wrong. this whole > >moral tip engulfed me. eventually i planned to go out and break my > >sobriety. my problem is that i told friends. they aren't in the program > >but they saw me drink and they helped through the program. they are > >adament that if i start i will begin to use it to deal with problems > >and won't be able to drink responsably. so why take the chance. my > >argument is that i agree, things could go that way or not, but i want > >to try just the same. i think it is possible to learn moderation. being > >sober has helped me learn that there is more to do than drink. i've > >learned to hang out with people and just chat. that used to make me > >really nervous. so, i'm not asking to go out and get trashed every day. > >i just want to be able to decide for myself. i'm not a low bottom > >drunk. thanks. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 Hello! The BS floating will take a while to disappear. But it does. And the feeling gets better & better. A whole lobe of my brain which was devoted to self-doubt and self-criticism has been freed up to pursue other activities. Nice. I found that reading about cults was extremely helpful. Two books you may want to check out: Combatting Cult Mind Control by Hassan and Recovery from Cults, Help for Victims of Psychological and Spiritual Abuse by Langone The phases of " recovery " from recovery are amazingly well documented. At first I thought " naaaahhh... " AA wasn't a cult, but you'd be amazed, all of the " breaking away " symptoms are described so accurately. Keep us posted. Apple kikibaby6-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8501 > thanks for the encouragement. i made a typing mistake. i've only been > sober two and a half years. i do have to check where all of this lack > of courage in my won choices is coming from. i know i've got alot of > that " drink and die " kind of BS floating around in my head. i've been > treated like a baby for so long that i've gotten used to it. i should > know and do have a sense of what i am capable of. it's just that the > whole AA line is so dominant even people who aren't in AA push it at > me. i checked out some moderation stuff today. i'm not into getting > involved in another 12 step deal though. i just want to be free of it > for a while and find my own way. i'm not insane and i'm not powerless > of this deal. i think if i was an alcoholic it might be different. AA > has some good aspects--the collectivity, etc. but i'm an atheist and i > don't want their brand of morality shoved down my face. so, thanks for > talking to me straight. > > dmarcoo-@... wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8500 > > im not sure what you are confused about. First of all AA has nothing > to > > do with sobriety, only their brand of mind control. Sobriety, the > > choice to drink or not has ALWAYS been in your hands to decide for > > yourself. being in a meeting or out with freinds makes no difference, > > the chocie is your to do with as you see fit for yourself. if you feel > > uncompfortable about idea of moderation and feel you will purposely > > seek self defeating behavior, what do you think you should do? > > if you think you would like o try moderation, hopefully someone on > thsi > > lsit who moderates can be a source of advise. > > > > i imagine it would be a scary prospect to try a drink after 21 years, > > and with pressure of your friends not to after all this time. but i > > imagine you arent the same person you were when you started drinking. > > one thing A.A. deines is we actualy grow and mature as human beings > > with experince. i seriously doubt you will regress 21 years > emotionally. > > > > I know i could pick up a drink today and certainly wouldnt find same > > appeal hiding in drinking as i did when i was 22, im not that person > > today. i have diffrent values, goals, experinces and motavations > today. > > i CHOOSE not to drink becasue the thought of intoxicating my brain and > > consciousness, killing excessive brain cells sickens me. i been there, > > done that. > > > > my advise is what i gave myself when i walked out of a.a, " do what is > > best for ME and trust my judgement. accept responsbility for my > > choices. " i ahve been out of aa 2 years and havent drank, becasue i > > choose not too. i also learned more wisdom about why i drank outside > of > > aa and in real world with " earth people " than any one size fits all > > A.A. branded slogan could offer. > > Dave > > > > kikibaby6-@... wrote: > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8 490 > > > help! I'm confused. I made this leap I thought and stopped going to > my > > > AA group. I'd had enough. No more meetings 3 times a week, no more > > > ridiculous sponsor direction, no more moral judegmements and threats > > of > > > death if I go out or don't do as I'm told. I felt free and > > > enthusiastic. AA has helped me. I stayed sober for over 21/2 years. > > i'm > > > still sober except for the near beer i drank a couple of days ago. > in > > > my group i'd probably lose all of my time as a result. i wanted to > go > > > into a bar and have a goodbye AA tequila or something but i walked > in > > > and i felt dirty, like i shouldn't be there. just wrong. this whole > > > moral tip engulfed me. eventually i planned to go out and break my > > > sobriety. my problem is that i told friends. they aren't in the > > program > > > but they saw me drink and they helped through the program. they are > > > adament that if i start i will begin to use it to deal with problems > > > and won't be able to drink responsably. so why take the chance. my > > > argument is that i agree, things could go that way or not, but i > want > > > to try just the same. i think it is possible to learn moderation. > > being > > > sober has helped me learn that there is more to do than drink. i've > > > learned to hang out with people and just chat. that used to make me > > > really nervous. so, i'm not asking to go out and get trashed every > > day. > > > i just want to be able to decide for myself. i'm not a low bottom > > > drunk. thanks. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 This is great!! You've pinned down exactly the reason I don't drink either. Its not because I've got some kind of hatred towards alcohol. Its because I'm so scared it will lead be back to AA and then not having any say about my life. The few times I've gotten drunk in the last 4 years my biggest fear has been not a hangover or that I'm hurting myself. Its that fear that they will commit me to rehab, force me to do the 12 steps and than make me go back to AA. Hell, maybe the crap does work. Although not like the mental health industry would like. Its almost in reverse. AA sucks so bad because the idea of losing one's freedom to choose and make there own decisions is terrifying. One thing I've learned the hard way is that everyone who drinks takes a risk. And that risk is that they may get arrested for public intoxication or DUI. And then they will be forced to attend AA and do some kind of rehabilitation. For me, its just not worth it. And I don't think anyone whose been arrested or gotten in legal trouble because of they're alcohol use has ever been told by the courts , " its ok. You've learned your lesson. Maybe it was just an isolated incident. " No, most alcohol users who screw up are told they are alcoholic and need to never drink again and attend AA till the day they die. YIKES!!! How awful. Anyway, that's why I think really hard before I drink anything with alcohol. Its like, 'is it worth it.' I just don't think its worth the hassle. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: <12-step-freeegroups> >Subject: Re: No Subject >Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:14:54 -0400 > >Howdy. > >Personally, I don't drink. The reason is that I'm afraid that if I did, I >might be overcome by an irresistable compulsion to read the Big Book, and >then one thing would lead to another, and then I might go to a meeting, and >soon I'd be right back where I started -- hopelessly lost in a Twisted Maze >of AA Madness. > >Based on your own history, and all kinds of things that only you could >possibly judge, moderation might be a sensible option for you at some point >in time. > >But waiting a while might be a smart thing to do. Taking a drink when you >have only recently emerged from 2.5 years of AA brainwashing, and still >angry about the whole thing, just seems risky to me. If you put it off for >a >while, then at the very least you will have shown that you can abstain >without AA if you want to. > >-- wally > > > No Subject > > > >help! I'm confused. I made this leap I thought and stopped going to my > >AA group. I'd had enough. No more meetings 3 times a week, no more > >ridiculous sponsor direction, no more moral judegmements and threats of > >death if I go out or don't do as I'm told. I felt free and > >enthusiastic. AA has helped me. I stayed sober for over 21/2 years. i'm > >still sober except for the near beer i drank a couple of days ago. in > >my group i'd probably lose all of my time as a result. i wanted to go > >into a bar and have a goodbye AA tequila or something but i walked in > >and i felt dirty, like i shouldn't be there. just wrong. this whole > >moral tip engulfed me. eventually i planned to go out and break my > >sobriety. my problem is that i told friends. they aren't in the program > >but they saw me drink and they helped through the program. they are > >adament that if i start i will begin to use it to deal with problems > >and won't be able to drink responsably. so why take the chance. my > >argument is that i agree, things could go that way or not, but i want > >to try just the same. i think it is possible to learn moderation. being > >sober has helped me learn that there is more to do than drink. i've > >learned to hang out with people and just chat. that used to make me > >really nervous. so, i'm not asking to go out and get trashed every day. > >i just want to be able to decide for myself. i'm not a low bottom > >drunk. thanks. > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service. Protect your files before > >you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL > >today. http://clickhere./click/938 > > > > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 1999 Report Share Posted October 8, 1999 i just wanted to say that i found all of this cause i started looking for info on cults on the internet. i found this book on est at a used book store. i remembered vaguely that it had been popular back in the 70s. i liked the book. especially this part that said, " you are not your problems. " I thought this sounds cool but kind of cultish. so, i looked it up and it turned out to totally be a cult with spin offs and stuff. anyways, i got into studying these anti cult websites. i felt that aa definitely had alot of cult aspects to it. i thought i'd maybe find something about aa on these sites but i didn't. and then one day i just typed in " is alcoholics anonymous a cult? " on www.askjeeves.com and all this interesting stuff popped up. i knew i shouldn't look at that stuff cause i knew the information might throw me right out of the rooms and it did. knowledge is a powerful thing and aa is the opposite of that. i can't take believing for the sake of believing anymore. i'm a materialist. not in the madonna sense but in the material world sense. you guys are great!!! ben bradley wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8504 > At 05:11 PM 10/7/99 -0700, dmarcoot@... wrote: > >belive me i understand. i wasnt confident in my own chocies when i left > >aa either (they program you to doubt yourself and motavations), but i > >knew in my gut that thsoe preaching me the aa program didnt ahve my > >interest at heart, they only wanted to assimilate me. fort months after > >i left aa i doubted my choices, all thsoe stories of how other left and > >failed were still freash. but i knew i was doing right thing. soon i > >found out much of waht i had been told was at very least a distortion, > >if not an all out lie. i also knew there must be others who had a > >similar experince as i did, or a diffrent philosophy on sobirety. thank > >goodness for the net. i was able to find info all over which > >contadicted what i had been taught and met people who went thru exactly > >same experinces. > > That's a great paragraph - if you and Apple are agreeable to it, I > think it would go well on the aadeprogramming site. > > >ironicall i started looking for info on cults, > > I did too, and found it very helpful. > > > because > >i knew in my heart that aa had cult attributes (and if you reseach > >cults you will be amazed on how much aa and has in common with the > >widely accepted cults in methodology) > > > >it took me a little over a year to recovery from my aa experince and to > >fully belive in myself as a guide to my own sobreity. > >btw i went into aa agnostic and left athesist, beacsue i could see from > >aa experince how god belief systems are used to manipulate and control > >people. > > I similarly went in as an atheist, not really knowing why I didn't > believe, just that I didn't, then got converted to the belief in 'god as I > understood him' along with quitting drinking. After a couple of years > of doing as I was told I started to wake up, question why I believed, > and look for some solid reasons to believe. Not only did I not find any > such reasons, I found some pretty good reasons not to believe in a god. > After my long journey through belief systems, I decided that God, like > parapsychology, exists ONLY in the minds of people who believe in it. > > ----- > http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 1999 Report Share Posted November 7, 1999 , You need to go to: http://www.eGroups.com/group/12-step-free/info.html and modify your subscription to unsubscribe. Sorry you somehow got on this list. Kate " brenda canfield " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9183 > I would appreciate t if you would pease take me off your e-mail ..I don't > know how or why I was added to this but never requested it... thank you > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 lets see, im 3.5 years sober, 2.5 years free of 12-stepping nuerosis bullshit, fully recovered from my alcholism. perpetual " recovering " is self defeating nonsense. how do i not pick up? i believe in my own ability to take care of myself, and i do whats in my best interest for my health and well being as a practice of self respect. i find it work much better than hoping groups, sponsors, shrinks or mythical beings will do it for me or decide what my will should be. its a matter of personal responsibility. and besides i dont want to pick up. here are 2 good links for you. good luck and enjoy. http://www.unhooked.com/ http://www.peele.net/ dave " ann pointon " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9536 > Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site > and found a better way to get sobriety. > Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up > again > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 lets see, im 3.5 years sober, 2.5 years free of 12-stepping nuerosis bullshit, fully recovered from my alcholism. perpetual " recovering " is self defeating nonsense. how do i not pick up? i believe in my own ability to take care of myself, and i do whats in my best interest for my health and well being as a practice of self respect. i find it work much better than hoping groups, sponsors, shrinks or mythical beings will do it for me or decide what my will should be. its a matter of personal responsibility. and besides i dont want to pick up. here are 2 good links for you. good luck and enjoy. http://www.unhooked.com/ http://www.peele.net/ dave " ann pointon " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9536 > Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site > and found a better way to get sobriety. > Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up > again > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 lets see, im 3.5 years sober, 2.5 years free of 12-stepping nuerosis bullshit, fully recovered from my alcholism. perpetual " recovering " is self defeating nonsense. how do i not pick up? i believe in my own ability to take care of myself, and i do whats in my best interest for my health and well being as a practice of self respect. i find it work much better than hoping groups, sponsors, shrinks or mythical beings will do it for me or decide what my will should be. its a matter of personal responsibility. and besides i dont want to pick up. here are 2 good links for you. good luck and enjoy. http://www.unhooked.com/ http://www.peele.net/ dave " ann pointon " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9536 > Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site > and found a better way to get sobriety. > Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up > again > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 No, but a few of us have experimented with alcohol with unspectacular results. This was done only after deprogramming from the out of control mindset instilled in us by XA. None of us are " drinkers " however. Most of us are abstinent, some are occasional drinkers. The language you are using indicates that you are still under the spell of XA, speaking from the " programming " . How to live sober? I found that instead of drinking, I can do something I like better. Emotional problems? I face them head on. I do not " get out of myself " . That's simply hiding. I have a good therapist and needed one after leaving XA. It was a very panicky time for me when I left, and the first line of this e-mail would have scared the bejeezus out of me. Yikes! Devil drink! (conditioned response to XA exposure) But it is amazing how the mind relaxes when it is out of the brainwashing zone. Have you read Jack Trimpey's book which deals with the drinking issue? " Rational Recovery the New Cure for Alcoholism " . Apple " ann pointon " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9536 > Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site > and found a better way to get sobriety. > Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up > again > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 At 02:34 AM 11/19/99 -0800, Dave wrote: >lets see, im 3.5 years sober, 2.5 years free of 12-stepping nuerosis >bullshit, fully recovered from my alcholism. perpetual " recovering " is >self defeating nonsense. how do i not pick up? i believe in my own >ability to take care of myself, and i do whats in my best interest for >my health and well being as a practice of self respect. i find it work >much better than hoping groups, sponsors, shrinks or mythical beings >will do it for me or decide what my will should be. its a matter of >personal responsibility. and besides i dont want to pick up. here are >2 good links for you. good luck and enjoy. > >http://www.unhooked.com/ >http://www.peele.net/ > >dave > > " ann pointon " wrote: >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9536 >> Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site >> and found a better way to get sobriety. >> Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up >> again I can second the 'unofficial' sos site at unhooked.com - I was on the mailing list for over two years, until I decided I couldn't even try to read the 100+ messages per day. I also attended SOS meetings sparsely for several years while slowly unprogramming myself and getting out of AA, then more regularly for a couple of years. I no longer attend for several reasons, but mainly because I don't feel it neccesary to for me to not drink. I have now 'recovered', and it occurrs to me I may have 'recovered' after a couple of years or even six months after stopping drinking (I've got 11 years without a drink, but it was around six months when any major desire to drink faded away). I don't feel the need to call myself an alcoholic - I'm just like a lot of other people who choose to not drink alcohol. It's only through the effort of breaking away from AA and thinking for myself that I can say that. ----- http://listen.to/benbradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 I personally found this site after being sober for 8 months. I have drank two times in the past month. I don't want alcohol to be a part of my life. What am I doing to keep from picking up again? Mainly, I've had to look really hard at what has made me start drinking again. What's changed since the previous 8 months when I stayed sober. I've found a lot of help from a book called, " The Truth about Addiction and Recovery " by Stanton Peele. I figured out that my addiction is a result of my current reality. Either the environment or the people I'm choosing to surround myself with. I've figured out that ever since I took this job that I don't like my need to drink has returned. I'm not blaming my job. But I've got to look at my history. For 8 months I stayed sober, without AA or a sponsor. Then, I took this job and a couple months later, I was getting drunk again. I know now that I've got two choices. I could return to AA and try to somehow " accept " this job I'm at. Or I could try reallly hard to find another job and pick one that helps me feel better about myself. I also occasionally go to AA meetings but very rarely. I also never go around people who are drinking to get drunk. Can this list get someone sober? I doubt it seriously. There's no truth detector here. A person can say anything and not be held accountable on it. But I think this list can help someone in their battle to feel better and help themselves. Matt > >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups >To: 12-step-freeeGroups >Subject: No Subject >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:43:06 -0800 > >Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site >and found a better way to get sobriety. >Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up >again > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! >http://clickhere./click/1142 > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > ______________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 At 21:43 18/11/99 -0800, you wrote: >Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site >and found a better way to get sobriety. >Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up >again I'm 13 years sober and 8 years away from 12 step meetings, but I didn't get all the dots joined up properly until I got on the internet a few years ago and discovered that there really were alternative recovery methods that worked. I'm not " recovering " now- recovery just doesn't take that long. But I found the tools I learnt from Psychology of Mind and SMART to help me to sort out all the residual problems. The problem with the 12 step programs is it doesn't actually understand what the real problem is in the first place, and misidentifies it as lack of God-centredness, which actually isn't a problem at all. That, and a mythical disease that science hasn't actually discovered! The real problem is one of thinking and behaviour. Modern approaches tend to recognise this. In fact it seems pretty obvious now, I suppose.... JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Touche, Joe! How eloquently put! You are right about the internet being able to put the pieces together better. I, too, believe in the cognitive instead of the God thing. It's obvious to me now, too. I couldn't see the forest for the trees...! " joe b. " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=9556 > At 21:43 18/11/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site > >and found a better way to get sobriety. > >Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up > >again > > I'm 13 years sober and 8 years away from 12 step meetings, but I didn't get > all the dots joined up properly until I got on the internet a few years ago > and discovered that there really were alternative recovery methods that > worked. I'm not " recovering " now- recovery just doesn't take that long. But > I found the tools I learnt from Psychology of Mind and SMART to help me to > sort out all the residual problems. The problem with the 12 step programs > is it doesn't actually understand what the real problem is in the first > place, and misidentifies it as lack of God-centredness, which actually > isn't a problem at all. That, and a mythical disease that science hasn't > actually discovered! The real problem is one of thinking and behaviour. > Modern approaches tend to recognise this. In fact it seems pretty obvious > now, I suppose.... > > > > > JB > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 In a message dated 11/19/99 4:47:37 PM Central Standard Time, appledtp@... writes: << Congratulations to Rose for finding this new poster which should be posted in every XA clubhouse & church basement. See idiocy.jpg in the vault. hee hee hee >> How do I get to the vault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. Still, there are other much better programs out there, as at least one other person has pointed out, " Women for Sobriety, " etc. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site >and found a better way to get sobriety. >Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up >again > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! >http://clickhere./click/1142 > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. Still, there are other much better programs out there, as at least one other person has pointed out, " Women for Sobriety, " etc. --- Kayleigh Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) >Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site >and found a better way to get sobriety. >Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up >again > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! >http://clickhere./click/1142 > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Women for Sobriety has steps for empowerment instead of steps to powerlessness. And you can " crosstalk " (give feedback) if you want to. ~Trixxi Re: No Subject > Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. > > Still, there are other much better programs out there, as at least one other person has pointed out, " Women for Sobriety, " etc. > --- > Kayleigh > > Zz > zZ > |\ z _,,,---,,_ > /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ > |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' > '---''(_/--' `-'\_) > > > > > >Im interrested to know if anyone has stopped drinking on this site > >and found a better way to get sobriety. > >Is anyone in rocovery and what and how do they stop from pickin up > >again > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer > >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer > >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay! > >http://clickhere./click/1142 > > > >-- Create a poll/survey for your group! > >-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > > > > > > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Meet your Match! CLICK HERE to go to One & Only Internet Personals > http://clickhere./click/1705 > > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 > Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. > Kayleigh Truly right on, Kayleigh. I have recently finished a three month drinking experiment, and have found that I am not powerless at all over alcohol. I have also found that alcohol is no longer a viable lifestyle for me. Alcohol affects my intellect and judgment adversely as well as exacerbating my long dormant depression.The negatives outweigh the positives for me so I have decided to remove alcohol from my basic itinerary. Although I indulged excessively at times, I am finding my present abstinence to be extremely easy going. I have no physical/psychological need to drink. Step free has cured me of any need to attend meetings. I'm just a guy who doesn't like to drink anymore. No meetings, no guilt, no steps, no HP, no dogma, no superstition, no labels, no sobriety date, no more endless AA bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 >How do I get to the vault? Try /docvault/12-step-free/ -- wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from AA I have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted forms of therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD issues for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills. Granted I DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have had enough therepy to last me for quite awhile. If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg Re: No Subject > > Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to > help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. > Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was > something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of > freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. > > > Kayleigh > > Truly right on, Kayleigh. > > I have recently finished a three month drinking experiment, and have > found that I am not powerless at all over alcohol. I have also found > that alcohol is no longer a viable lifestyle for me. > > Alcohol affects my intellect and judgment adversely as well as > exacerbating my long dormant depression.The negatives outweigh the > positives for me so I have decided to remove alcohol from my basic itinerary. > > Although I indulged excessively at times, I am finding my present > abstinence to be extremely easy going. I have no physical/psychological > need to drink. Step free has cured me of any need to attend meetings. > I'm just a guy who doesn't like to drink anymore. > > No meetings, no guilt, no steps, no HP, no dogma, no superstition, no > labels, no sobriety date, no more endless AA bullshit. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > A Proud Member of the One & Only Associate Network > http://clickhere./click/1709 > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from AA I have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted forms of therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD issues for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills. Granted I DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have had enough therepy to last me for quite awhile. If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg Re: No Subject > > Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to > help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. > Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was > something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of > freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. > > > Kayleigh > > Truly right on, Kayleigh. > > I have recently finished a three month drinking experiment, and have > found that I am not powerless at all over alcohol. I have also found > that alcohol is no longer a viable lifestyle for me. > > Alcohol affects my intellect and judgment adversely as well as > exacerbating my long dormant depression.The negatives outweigh the > positives for me so I have decided to remove alcohol from my basic itinerary. > > Although I indulged excessively at times, I am finding my present > abstinence to be extremely easy going. I have no physical/psychological > need to drink. Step free has cured me of any need to attend meetings. > I'm just a guy who doesn't like to drink anymore. > > No meetings, no guilt, no steps, no HP, no dogma, no superstition, no > labels, no sobriety date, no more endless AA bullshit. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > A Proud Member of the One & Only Associate Network > http://clickhere./click/1709 > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 Yep - I have hopped off the " rollercoaster ride " myself. Asides from AA I have also been in CBT 'day treatment' programs and other assorted forms of therepy and support groups. I haven't seen anyone about my MI/CD issues for over a year now, except to go to my 'shrink' for med refills. Granted I DO BELIEVE CBT therapy has helped me enormously, but I think I have had enough therepy to last me for quite awhile. If anyone wants to look at my " mug " it is in the Vault...trixxi.jpg Re: No Subject > > Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to > help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. > Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was > something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of > freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. > > > Kayleigh > > Truly right on, Kayleigh. > > I have recently finished a three month drinking experiment, and have > found that I am not powerless at all over alcohol. I have also found > that alcohol is no longer a viable lifestyle for me. > > Alcohol affects my intellect and judgment adversely as well as > exacerbating my long dormant depression.The negatives outweigh the > positives for me so I have decided to remove alcohol from my basic itinerary. > > Although I indulged excessively at times, I am finding my present > abstinence to be extremely easy going. I have no physical/psychological > need to drink. Step free has cured me of any need to attend meetings. > I'm just a guy who doesn't like to drink anymore. > > No meetings, no guilt, no steps, no HP, no dogma, no superstition, no > labels, no sobriety date, no more endless AA bullshit. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > A Proud Member of the One & Only Associate Network > http://clickhere./click/1709 > > -- Talk to your group with your own voice! > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 1999 Report Share Posted November 19, 1999 boy I can really relate. I too had a pathological compulsion to join an alternative program. It was only by hearing it on this list over and over that I would be fine without a program that I grew to believe it. It was not easy. The disempowerment and self-doubt which is instilled runs deep. Ultimately, I didn't join an alternative program because there weren't any. The compulsion to find one dissipated with time. Apple > Anne, when I left AA I was sure I needed another program to help me stop drinking. In fact, I was desperate to find one. Then I realized that the belief I needed a program at all was something AA had convinced me of. It gave me a great deal of freedom to ponder the perspective this realization gave me. > > Still, there are other much better programs out there, as at least one other person has pointed out, " Women for Sobriety, " etc. > --- > Kayleigh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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