Re: VersaTrap

[Guest guest]

Wei,

I will chip in $250 for the field study.

Rosen

www.Mold-Health.org

Re: VersaTrap

Those are physical sizes, which is different from aerodynamic sizes. Impaction effeciency onto to spore trap slides is determined by aerodynamic sizes (and other factors). Also, they could change sizes when dried up.

Aspergillus sp. may have small spore (< 2.5 micorns):

A. fumigatus: 2 - 3 microns

A. versicolor: 2 - 3.5 microns

A. terreus: 2- 2.5 microns

Penicillium sp. may have small spore (< 2.5 micorns):

P. citrinum: 2.2 - 3 microns

P. paxilli: 2.2 - 3 microns

P. funiculosum: 2.2 - 3 microns

Cladosporium cladosporioides have sizes as small as 3.5 - 4 microns, but it was published that their aerodynamic sizes could be as small as 1.8 microns. It's quite interesting, so if you want to participate in the field study, please contact me.

Wei Tang

QLab

LiveSimply <quackadillian@ gmail.com> wrote:

So, I'm assuming that those very small spores that Air-O-Cell doesn't capture are usually aspergillus/ penicillium general types, right?Which of the asp/pen species have those small aerodynamic diameters? (2.5 microns and under) Is it all of them or just some of them?Aspergillus funimatus, versicolor, xxx? or ???Penicillium xxx???Is there anywhere I can find a list of the ones captured vs. the ones not captured and the maybes?

Wei Tang, Ph.D.

Lab Director

QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA. com

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debatein the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink Q&A.

[Guest guest]

, For 150 L, more spores also means more debris to overload the slide. If you want to see small fragments, you can try using Bi-Air or Smart Cassette and do long term sampling. Be sure to ask the lab to record small fragments that look like piece of cell wall. It might take a long time to do that though. Wei Tang QLabgary rosen wrote: Again ... check out the specs on the SKC web site. At least on paper the VersaTrap looks good. If you get 150 liters in 5 minutes at 30 lpm (vs 75 liters at 15 lpm) and you get a little more bounce that is a good tradeoff as you are still looking at alot more spores on the slide. Rosen www.Green-Buildings.org Re: Re: VersaTrap In a message dated 3/27/2007 11:32:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, sammeg64yahoo (DOT) com writes: The Air-O-Cell can also be used to sample at 20, 25, even 30 LPM if the user chooses to do so. Specific data about sampling at higher flowrates is in the AOC Users Guide from Zefon as well as the original product literature.

While you may capture more of the smaller, lower mass spores by impaction at higher velocities, you have to worry about bounce of the larger spores from the adhesive coated surface and overloading of the slide with background debris. These are trade-offs.I hope Wei weighs in.Steve Temes Get your own web address.Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com

[Guest guest]

Wei,

Your comment about spore size changing (aeorodynamic size) when dried up is very interesting. Sick buildings can be sick years after water problems. The mold can be dead and dried up in attics and wall cavities and air ducts ... but still be making people sick.

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

As mentioned, I will chip in $250 for the field study. A simple lab experiment would also be useful.

Grow mold on non-sweetened canned pumpkin. This media for whatever reason produces small Pen-Asp type mold. Take a few samples with VersaTrap, AOC etc when the mold is fresh. Once the pumpkin dries out micowave the material so all is dead then dry it out ... test again.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Health.org

Re: VersaTrap

Those are physical sizes, which is different from aerodynamic sizes. Impaction effeciency onto to spore trap slides is determined by aerodynamic sizes (and other factors). Also, they could change sizes when dried up.

Aspergillus sp. may have small spore (< 2.5 micorns):

A. fumigatus: 2 - 3 microns

A. versicolor: 2 - 3.5 microns

A. terreus: 2- 2.5 microns

Penicillium sp. may have small spore (< 2.5 micorns):

P. citrinum: 2.2 - 3 microns

P. paxilli: 2.2 - 3 microns

P. funiculosum: 2.2 - 3 microns

Cladosporium cladosporioides have sizes as small as 3.5 - 4 microns, but it was published that their aerodynamic sizes could be as small as 1.8 microns. It's quite interesting, so if you want to participate in the field study, please contact me.

Wei Tang

QLab

LiveSimply <quackadillian@ gmail.com> wrote:

So, I'm assuming that those very small spores that Air-O-Cell doesn't capture are usually aspergillus/ penicillium general types, right?Which of the asp/pen species have those small aerodynamic diameters? (2.5 microns and under) Is it all of them or just some of them?Aspergillus funimatus, versicolor, xxx? or ???Penicillium xxx???Is there anywhere I can find a list of the ones captured vs. the ones not captured and the maybes?

Wei Tang, Ph.D.

Lab Director

QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA. com

The fish are biting.

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[Guest guest]

References for my previous post about spore sizes: Identification of Common Aspergillus Species Maren Klich, 2002 ISBN: 90-70351-46-3 A Laboratory Guide to Common Penicillium Species Pitt, 2000 ISBN: 0 643 04837 5 Wei Tang QLabWei Tang wrote: Those are physical sizes, which is different from aerodynamic sizes. Impaction effeciency onto

to spore trap slides is determined by aerodynamic sizes (and other factors). Also, they could change sizes when dried up. Aspergillus sp. may have small spore (< 2.5 micorns): A. fumigatus: 2 - 3 microns A. versicolor: 2 - 3.5 microns A. terreus: 2- 2.5 microns Penicillium sp. may have small spore (< 2.5 micorns): P. citrinum: 2.2 - 3 microns P. paxilli: 2.2 - 3 microns P. funiculosum: 2.2 - 3 microns Cladosporium cladosporioides have sizes as small as 3.5 - 4 microns, but it was published that their aerodynamic sizes could be as small as 1.8 microns. It's quite interesting, so if you want to participate in the field study, please contact me. Wei Tang QLab LiveSimply <quackadilliangmail>

wrote: So, I'm assuming that those very small spores that Air-O-Cell doesn't capture are usually aspergillus/penicillium general types, right?Which of the asp/pen species have those small aerodynamic diameters? (2.5 microns and under) Is it all of them or just some of them?Aspergillus funimatus, versicolor, xxx? or ???Penicillium xxx???Is there anywhere I can find a list of the ones captured vs. the ones not captured and the maybes? Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

I believe that mold fragments from dried up and decaying mold can be a/the major problem when people exhibit mold illness according to their doctors ... but spore counts were low. But it may be that dried out spores between 1.5 and 2.5 micron (invisible to AOC) are a significant factor.

The MASS of the spore when wet vs. when dry will also determine whether it is captured by impaction because the trajectory of the spore is primarily a function of its momentum. The lighter spores, not just smaller in diameter spores, will travel with the air stream around the slide and not impact.

I believe that there is likely to be nasty chemical stuff from mold in the growth substrate because this is where the digestive enzymes and waste products are excreted and the "battleground" where mycotoxins would be effective in protecting the colony from competitors. So, in addition to spore and hyphal fragments, I think fine dust from colonized growth substrate is where mycotoxins and other exudates from mold would be coming from if you find them in the air in the absence of spores. In my experience, when accumulations of organic dust are colonized (when wet) and then dry out, this loose dust IS the substrate and can become airborne very easily. This is why I recommend strongly that all dust reservoirs be removed thoroughly. Colonized wood and paper can be a source of airborne allergens and mycotoxins, but not as easily as colonized dust can be.

Steve Temes

[Guest guest]

Hi , Yes, they are visible--much of it depends on the magnification, and the keen eyes of the analyst.gary rosen wrote: Have you seen 2 micron Pen-Asp-line spores on an AOC? They are not visible and can be making someone sick. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com Re: VersaTrap I thought I would share my perspective (and those of my fellow lab-mates) on this subject. First--on the expiration date, the issue is mainly that the triacitin (sticky stuff on the slides) can dry out, and when that happens you cannot see anything on the

slide--probably nothing sticks. I personally have not noticed that an expired air-o-cell is necessarily bad except that you never know at what point the triacitin is going to dry up. Some expired cassettes are fine, and some are not because of this. As to the Versa-Trap.. ...it is the opinion of my former lab mates and myself that these are not better than an air-o-cell. The analysts hate getting them. First of all they require a longer set-up time, and second--when you prepare these, often the trace gets distorted from the liquid going into the medium. All of my former labmates say that they definitely cannot see better and the trace is very hard to find. I personally have never had any trouble seeing Pen/Asp spores on an air-o-cell. My 2 cents for what it is worth. Dawne YatesMatt Klein <mkklein68@roadrunne r.com>

wrote: Make sure you will be able to use them before their expiration dates.Steve brings up a good point. Does anyone know how this expiration date is established? How much decrement is there for samplers used after their expiration date? What environmental storage parameters impact the samplers? I have seen little to no information on these topics for these samplers and I'm curious. Matt Klein Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Don't pick lemons.

See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Guest guest]

Wei, I completely agree with you. So many times people think that "more is better", but what actually happens is that the spores that you want to see, especially the smaller ones are completely covered with debris, thus a waste of a sample DawneWei Tang wrote: Allergenco-D has lower d50 (good for smaller spores) but a smaller impaction area, so watch out for overloading. Unless it's in a clean room or hospital, my experience is that 150 L is usually

not preferred (for both AOC and Allergenco-D). There are several filter-based spore traps, Laro-100 (discountined), Bi-Air, QTrap, and "Smart Cassette", which are made by Relle and distributed by several companies. Wei Tang QLabJoe Spurgeon <jospurcihgmail> wrote: :I have a paper coming out in AS & T that compares the AOC, Bi-Air filter cassette, and the N6. The BA can be used effectively from 10 min to 8 hours, although there is no real incentive to use filters for 10 min samples. I routinely collect 60-90 min samples while completing my residential investigations. The high airflow rate of 30 lpm is great for single Asp/Pen (small) spores, but the data in my article clearly indicates that it limits

the aspiration of Asp/Pen clusters and larger spores like Chaetomium, which can make a dramatic difference in the total count. In my tests, the VersaTrap has the same efficiency as the AOC, but the Allergenco-D is about 30% more efficient than the AOC & VersaTrap for Asp/Pen spores. You can see the Bi-Air at www.mold-sampling.comJoe Spurgeon, Ph.D., CIH On 3/26/07, gary rosen <garyrosen72652> wrote: Thanks for the input Tony. The cool thing about the VersaTraps is that if you operate them at 30 lpm they trap the smallest Pen/Asp spores that AOC does not ... plus you get 150 liters in 5 minutes. I bought some of the Relle traps that say they work down to .8 micron. But you don't need .8 micron as that is too small for a visual count; and you need to run the Relle cassettes for hours to get a good size sample since they dramatically cut down on the air flow. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com VersaTrap http://www.skcinc. com/instructions /1642.pdf Has anyone been using the new VersaTrap cassette from SKC? This captures very small spores (down to 1.5 micron) not captured by Air-O-Cell and runs up to 30 lpm with what appears to be very good characteristics ... and allows 150 liter sampling in only 5 minutes. Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-health. org Never miss an email again!Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Guest guest]

Wei, I completely agree with you. So many times people think that "more is better", but what actually happens is that the spores that you want to see, especially the smaller ones are completely covered with debris, thus a waste of a sample DawneWei Tang wrote: Allergenco-D has lower d50 (good for smaller spores) but a smaller impaction area, so watch out for overloading. Unless it's in a clean room or hospital, my experience is that 150 L is usually

not preferred (for both AOC and Allergenco-D). There are several filter-based spore traps, Laro-100 (discountined), Bi-Air, QTrap, and "Smart Cassette", which are made by Relle and distributed by several companies. Wei Tang QLabJoe Spurgeon <jospurcihgmail> wrote: :I have a paper coming out in AS & T that compares the AOC, Bi-Air filter cassette, and the N6. The BA can be used effectively from 10 min to 8 hours, although there is no real incentive to use filters for 10 min samples. I routinely collect 60-90 min samples while completing my residential investigations. The high airflow rate of 30 lpm is great for single Asp/Pen (small) spores, but the data in my article clearly indicates that it limits

the aspiration of Asp/Pen clusters and larger spores like Chaetomium, which can make a dramatic difference in the total count. In my tests, the VersaTrap has the same efficiency as the AOC, but the Allergenco-D is about 30% more efficient than the AOC & VersaTrap for Asp/Pen spores. You can see the Bi-Air at www.mold-sampling.comJoe Spurgeon, Ph.D., CIH On 3/26/07, gary rosen <garyrosen72652> wrote: Thanks for the input Tony. The cool thing about the VersaTraps is that if you operate them at 30 lpm they trap the smallest Pen/Asp spores that AOC does not ... plus you get 150 liters in 5 minutes. I bought some of the Relle traps that say they work down to .8 micron. But you don't need .8 micron as that is too small for a visual count; and you need to run the Relle cassettes for hours to get a good size sample since they dramatically cut down on the air flow. Rosen www.Mold-Books.com VersaTrap http://www.skcinc. com/instructions /1642.pdf Has anyone been using the new VersaTrap cassette from SKC? This captures very small spores (down to 1.5 micron) not captured by Air-O-Cell and runs up to 30 lpm with what appears to be very good characteristics ... and allows 150 liter sampling in only 5 minutes. Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-health. org Never miss an email again!Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Guest guest]

No doubt.

Re: Re: VersaTrap

In a message dated 3/27/2007 11:32:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, sammeg64yahoo (DOT) com writes:

The Air-O-Cell can also be used to sample at 20, 25, even 30 LPM if the user chooses to do so. Specific data about sampling at higher flowrates is in the AOC Users Guide from Zefon as well as the original product literature.

While you may capture more of the smaller, lower mass spores by impaction at higher velocities, you have to worry about bounce of the larger spores from the adhesive coated surface and overloading of the slide with background debris. These are trade-offs.I hope Wei weighs in.Steve Temes

Get your own web address.Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

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[Guest guest]

Wei,

I rarely want to do long term sampling. Many times I don't get paid to do sampling. I do sampling in order to understand cleaning requirements so I can quote a remediation job. I am in and out.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Re: VersaTrap

In a message dated 3/27/2007 11:32:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, sammeg64yahoo (DOT) com writes:

The Air-O-Cell can also be used to sample at 20, 25, even 30 LPM if the user chooses to do so. Specific data about sampling at higher flowrates is in the AOC Users Guide from Zefon as well as the original product literature. While you may capture more of the smaller, lower mass spores by impaction at higher velocities, you have to worry about bounce of the larger spores from the adhesive coated surface and overloading of the slide with background debris. These are trade-offs.I hope Wei weighs in.Steve Temes

Get your own web address.Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

Wei Tang, Ph.D.

Lab Director

QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA. com

Finding fabulous fares is fun.Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

[Guest guest]

Dawne,

I thought the cut off for AOC was 2.5 micron. How do you see smaller spores than the cut off?

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: VersaTrap

I thought I would share my perspective (and those of my fellow lab-mates) on this subject. First--on the expiration date, the issue is mainly that the triacitin (sticky stuff on the slides) can dry out, and when that happens you cannot see anything on the slide--probably nothing sticks. I personally have not noticed that an expired air-o-cell is necessarily bad except that you never know at what point the triacitin is going to dry up. Some expired cassettes are fine, and some are not because of this.

As to the Versa-Trap.. ...it is the opinion of my former lab mates and myself that these are not better than an air-o-cell. The analysts hate getting them. First of all they require a longer set-up time, and second--when you prepare these, often the trace gets distorted from the liquid going into the medium. All of my former labmates say that they definitely cannot see better and the trace is very hard to find. I personally have never had any trouble seeing Pen/Asp spores on an air-o-cell.

My 2 cents for what it is worth.

Dawne YatesMatt Klein <mkklein68@roadrunne r.com> wrote:

Make sure you will be able to use them before their expiration dates.Steve brings up a good point. Does anyone know how this expiration date is established? How much decrement is there for samplers used after their expiration date? What environmental storage parameters impact the samplers? I have seen little to no information on these topics for these samplers and I'm curious. Matt Klein

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Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

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[Guest guest]

Dawne,

I thought the cut off for AOC was 2.5 micron. How do you see smaller spores than the cut off?

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: VersaTrap

I thought I would share my perspective (and those of my fellow lab-mates) on this subject. First--on the expiration date, the issue is mainly that the triacitin (sticky stuff on the slides) can dry out, and when that happens you cannot see anything on the slide--probably nothing sticks. I personally have not noticed that an expired air-o-cell is necessarily bad except that you never know at what point the triacitin is going to dry up. Some expired cassettes are fine, and some are not because of this.

As to the Versa-Trap.. ...it is the opinion of my former lab mates and myself that these are not better than an air-o-cell. The analysts hate getting them. First of all they require a longer set-up time, and second--when you prepare these, often the trace gets distorted from the liquid going into the medium. All of my former labmates say that they definitely cannot see better and the trace is very hard to find. I personally have never had any trouble seeing Pen/Asp spores on an air-o-cell.

My 2 cents for what it is worth.

Dawne YatesMatt Klein <mkklein68@roadrunne r.com> wrote:

Make sure you will be able to use them before their expiration dates.Steve brings up a good point. Does anyone know how this expiration date is established? How much decrement is there for samplers used after their expiration date? What environmental storage parameters impact the samplers? I have seen little to no information on these topics for these samplers and I'm curious. Matt Klein

Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Dawne,

I thought the cut off for AOC was 2.5 micron. How do you see smaller spores than the cut off?

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: VersaTrap

I thought I would share my perspective (and those of my fellow lab-mates) on this subject. First--on the expiration date, the issue is mainly that the triacitin (sticky stuff on the slides) can dry out, and when that happens you cannot see anything on the slide--probably nothing sticks. I personally have not noticed that an expired air-o-cell is necessarily bad except that you never know at what point the triacitin is going to dry up. Some expired cassettes are fine, and some are not because of this.

As to the Versa-Trap.. ...it is the opinion of my former lab mates and myself that these are not better than an air-o-cell. The analysts hate getting them. First of all they require a longer set-up time, and second--when you prepare these, often the trace gets distorted from the liquid going into the medium. All of my former labmates say that they definitely cannot see better and the trace is very hard to find. I personally have never had any trouble seeing Pen/Asp spores on an air-o-cell.

My 2 cents for what it is worth.

Dawne YatesMatt Klein <mkklein68@roadrunne r.com> wrote:

Make sure you will be able to use them before their expiration dates.Steve brings up a good point. Does anyone know how this expiration date is established? How much decrement is there for samplers used after their expiration date? What environmental storage parameters impact the samplers? I have seen little to no information on these topics for these samplers and I'm curious. Matt Klein

Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Dawne,

I thought the cut off for AOC was 2.5 micron. How do you see smaller spores than the cut off?

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: VersaTrap

I thought I would share my perspective (and those of my fellow lab-mates) on this subject. First--on the expiration date, the issue is mainly that the triacitin (sticky stuff on the slides) can dry out, and when that happens you cannot see anything on the slide--probably nothing sticks. I personally have not noticed that an expired air-o-cell is necessarily bad except that you never know at what point the triacitin is going to dry up. Some expired cassettes are fine, and some are not because of this.

As to the Versa-Trap.. ...it is the opinion of my former lab mates and myself that these are not better than an air-o-cell. The analysts hate getting them. First of all they require a longer set-up time, and second--when you prepare these, often the trace gets distorted from the liquid going into the medium. All of my former labmates say that they definitely cannot see better and the trace is very hard to find. I personally have never had any trouble seeing Pen/Asp spores on an air-o-cell.

My 2 cents for what it is worth.

Dawne YatesMatt Klein <mkklein68@roadrunne r.com> wrote:

Make sure you will be able to use them before their expiration dates.Steve brings up a good point. Does anyone know how this expiration date is established? How much decrement is there for samplers used after their expiration date? What environmental storage parameters impact the samplers? I have seen little to no information on these topics for these samplers and I'm curious. Matt Klein

Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

Dawne,

I thought the cut off for AOC was 2.5 micron. How do you see smaller spores than the cut off?

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: VersaTrap

I thought I would share my perspective (and those of my fellow lab-mates) on this subject. First--on the expiration date, the issue is mainly that the triacitin (sticky stuff on the slides) can dry out, and when that happens you cannot see anything on the slide--probably nothing sticks. I personally have not noticed that an expired air-o-cell is necessarily bad except that you never know at what point the triacitin is going to dry up. Some expired cassettes are fine, and some are not because of this.

As to the Versa-Trap.. ...it is the opinion of my former lab mates and myself that these are not better than an air-o-cell. The analysts hate getting them. First of all they require a longer set-up time, and second--when you prepare these, often the trace gets distorted from the liquid going into the medium. All of my former labmates say that they definitely cannot see better and the trace is very hard to find. I personally have never had any trouble seeing Pen/Asp spores on an air-o-cell.

My 2 cents for what it is worth.

Dawne YatesMatt Klein <mkklein68@roadrunne r.com> wrote:

Make sure you will be able to use them before their expiration dates.Steve brings up a good point. Does anyone know how this expiration date is established? How much decrement is there for samplers used after their expiration date? What environmental storage parameters impact the samplers? I have seen little to no information on these topics for these samplers and I'm curious. Matt Klein

Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Don't pick lemons.See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.