Re: Butts and Breasts was: Ecological Nursing

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/2/04 12:44:43 PM, teresa.blazey@... writes:

>

> Elainie,

> AFAIK the only (cosmetic) drawback to the lift is the vertical scar

> left beneath the nipple running to the base of the breast.    Oh, also

> the nipples/ariolae are moved so there may be issue with the nerve

> endings re-attaching, meaning numbness (hopefully temporary) or

> reduced sensation. If your diet is very healthy, your recovery will be

> that much more supported.

> So, there's an obvious scar when naked but you'll be able to wear tops

> without bras--don't know your size--and not feel droopy.

>

> B.

>

Oh dear- I don't like that factor- I suppose I will have to live with droopy

34C (for now) breasts!

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:58:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,

twyllightmoon@... writes:

> Could we spell that " penile " ? I'm not sure what a penal shaft would be,

> but it doesn't sound pleasant - maybe an elevator shaft in a prison -

> they drop you down it if you're bad?

______

~~~~> You could spell it either way, depending on how you like it or what

you're in the mood for.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/2/04 1:15:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, cah@...

writes:

> ~~~Maybe I'm living a sheltered life, but I've never been in a room where

> the women talk about sex organs when the men leave the room. I wonder if

> maybe you guys are flattering yourselves! :-)

____

~~~~> No, I'm guessing you just live a sheltered life ;-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

Ditto here.

>

>

> >>~~~~> Right, but most of us guys are wondering what the women are

saying when

> the guys leave the room.

> Chris<<

>

> ~~~Maybe I'm living a sheltered life, but I've never been in a room

where the women talk about sex organs when the men leave the room. I

wonder if maybe you guys are flattering yourselves! :-)

> Carol

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Micheal- I did check out Brava but was concerned with the way it *grew*

> breast tissue.

> That could be dangerous. BTW- both my mother's have had plastic surgery as

> wel as many

> others I've known and not had a problem. As for the hospital food- my

> mother has her surgery done in a private NYC hospital which is more like an

> exclusive hotel and they bring in the best food.

> She said we could both go in together for a lift LOL.

>

> Elainie

Elainie,

AFAIK the only (cosmetic) drawback to the lift is the vertical scar

left beneath the nipple running to the base of the breast. Oh, also

the nipples/ariolae are moved so there may be issue with the nerve

endings re-attaching, meaning numbness (hopefully temporary) or

reduced sensation. If your diet is very healthy, your recovery will be

that much more supported.

So, there's an obvious scar when naked but you'll be able to wear tops

without bras--don't know your size--and not feel droopy.

B.

[Guest guest]

> But then most artists

> represented in museums are male and I do think men tend to respond to

> visual stimulation (they consume more porn, for instance) more than

> women do. The Greeks loved the nude male form, but I suspect this had

> to do with their open attitude toward homosexuality and obsession with

> athletes.

>

> I never really found looking at men's bodies very stimulating until I

> practically fainted upon beholding angelo's in the

> Galleria dell'Accademia. Oh, and he has a *small* penis! Of course,

> it's not erect, and we all know how looks can be deceiving!

>

>

Thanks . Whew, I thought I was going to be THE only uninhibited

female on board here. And funny you should bring up art! We just got

back from the Kimbell Art Museum's " Stubb's & the Horse " exhibition,

which was very uplifting indeed. Not angelo, but not bad. But,

<hem> here we see Whistlejacket with Stubb's fine attention to

anatomical correctness. But where's the stallion's schlong? Not even a

hint!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

> Thanks . Whew, I thought I was going to be THE only uninhibited

> female on board here.

Have you not had the pleasure of meeting our own dear Suze?

>And funny you should bring up art! We just got

> back from the Kimbell Art Museum's " Stubb's & the Horse " exhibition,

> which was very uplifting indeed. Not angelo, but not bad. But,

> <hem> here we see Whistlejacket with Stubb's fine attention to

> anatomical correctness. But where's the stallion's schlong? Not even a

> hint!

Hmmm...I just looked at this painting online and YOU'RE RIGHT! He's

omitted the horse's special purpose completely. Penis envy,

perhaps???

[Guest guest]

> > Thanks . Whew, I thought I was going to be THE only uninhibited

> > female on board here.

>

> Have you not had the pleasure of meeting our own dear Suze?

*********Yes, she must be off drawing Glutenator pictures for Helga's

beer labels.

>

> >And funny you should bring up art! We just got

> > back from the Kimbell Art Museum's " Stubb's & the Horse " exhibition,

> > which was very uplifting indeed. Not angelo, but not bad. But,

> > <hem> here we see Whistlejacket with Stubb's fine attention to

> > anatomical correctness. But where's the stallion's schlong? Not even a

> > hint!

>

> Hmmm...I just looked at this painting online and YOU'RE RIGHT! He's

> omitted the horse's special purpose completely. Penis envy,

> perhaps???

>

>

*********** Must be that envy at work. I mean, the guy hung dead horses

on hooks in a barn and stripped away layers of tissue and completely

cataloged horse anatomy; writing books on it, which we viewed today.

Stubbs even robbed human graves to study anatomy, including a

pregnant woman's! Anyway, I got the book from the show. I don't see a

one horse member. Now, other artists have no problem with this

anatomical feature. Snape's Anatomy of an Horse, a 1683

engraving, has its hangin' loose muscularity right there to see.

Too bad Stubbs had these *issues* clouding his otherwise fine portrayal

of equine beauty.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Penis envy, perhaps??? -

Okay, for those of you who are absolutely clueless about what

and I are talking about, go to the photos section, look in " Deanna's

World " album and see my neighbor's 6 month old painted horse,

anatomically correct

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 12/2/04 1:15:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, cah@...

> writes:

>

> > ~~~Maybe I'm living a sheltered life, but I've never been in a room where

> > the women talk about sex organs when the men leave the room. I wonder if

> > maybe you guys are flattering yourselves! :-)

>

> ____

>

> ~~~~> No, I'm guessing you just live a sheltered life ;-)

>

>

>

> Chris

I think maybe it's a sign of social class in upbringing... this kind

of conversation would never have been tolerated... except by the

snickering kids in the bathroom sneaking cigarettes!

Catz

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:17:11 -0800

" Carol " <cah@...> wrote:

>

>

> >>~~~~> Right, but most of us guys are wondering what the women are saying

when

> the guys leave the room.

> Chris<<

>

> ~~~Maybe I'm living a sheltered life, but I've never been in a room where the

women talk about sex organs when the men leave the room. I wonder if maybe you

guys are flattering yourselves! :-)

> Carol

>

Are you kidding me, lol! I have been told that has been the topic in a

number of rooms AND I accidently overheard one such discussion <g>

" Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through

a deeper factual analysis. "

Murray Rothbard

" Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side.

Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner;

and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is

like a day without sunshine. "

Brad Edmonds

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 20:07:07 -0600

Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

> With hope and hands and lips <weg>

> Deanna

I'm not sure what you are hoping about, with willing hands and lips I

would imagine you have very happy (and pliable) husband <weg>

" Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through

a deeper factual analysis. "

Murray Rothbard

" Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side.

Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner;

and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is

like a day without sunshine. "

Brad Edmonds

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:16:14 -0500

<jessclaire@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> > I haven't had a breast lift (bseg) and I don't have a flat butt but I would

recommend you check this out before considering surgery:

> >

> > www.brava.com

>

> Looks like an interesting product, but you have to wear it 10 hours a

> day!!!!! I don't think this would go over too well with the dh.

During the day maybe? It is only for a set period of time I believe. But

if your husband is happy with your breast size and this is an issue only

for you then I would imagine he might be a little resistant, unless of

course he is willing to deal with it just to make you happy, lol!

> > And nothing works on filling out butts like full squats. Nothing.

> >

>

> OK, this is a dumb question, but could you direct me to some pictures

> of the kind of squats you're talking about? I'm a yoga gal myself,

> but I'd like to begin doing more strength training. I'd really like

> to try kettlebells, but I'd prefer to have a lesson or two before

> investing in them and/or hurting myself.

I don't do kettlebells (I like the idea just haven't done them yet) and I

am very partial to Olympic Lifting and I would personally avoid

bodybuilding like the plaque, especially if your goal is to develop

strength.

Well I am all for taking lessons, be aware that conventional wisdom

says the full (high bar/Olympic) squats are bad for your knees, and your

trainer may discourage you from doing them.

As for learning to squat this is a good place to begin:

http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat.html

An intro to Olympic Lifting can be found here:

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-olympic-lifting.asp

Some pics of Olympic Lifting:

http://www.qwa.org/womens/content.asp

Some pics of high bar squatting:

http://www.cbass.com/Squats.htm

Hope that helps!

" Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through

a deeper factual analysis. "

Murray Rothbard

" Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side.

Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner;

and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is

like a day without sunshine. "

Brad Edmonds

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 19:01:30 -0600

Deanna <hl@...> wrote:

> ~~~~> Right, but most of us guys are wondering what the women are saying

> when the guys leave the room. - Chris

> -------------------------------

> Size matters. And it may be too much, or not enough. Women come with

> different sized compartments, so it is dependent on the match up.

> Although, length of male organ (dong, prick, cock: might as well use

> slang for it like we did with boobs) probably takes a back seat to

> length of enjoyment as a function of time, which can multiply orgasms

> for women.

You mean 30 second men need not apply?

" Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through

a deeper factual analysis. "

Murray Rothbard

" Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side.

Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner;

and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is

like a day without sunshine. "

Brad Edmonds

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:34:50 -0500

<jessclaire@...> wrote:

> I don't know what 's " big picture " is but mine might be

> summarized by this saying: " it's not the size of the boat, but the

> motion of the ocean " ; )

>

>

Now that is one I haven't heard for a long long time!

" Scholarship is essentially confirming your early paranoia through

a deeper factual analysis. "

Murray Rothbard

" Vegetarians, come away from The Dark Side.

Pork is the other white meat; beef is what’s for dinner;

and a day without pepper-crusted venison tenderloin is

like a day without sunshine. "

Brad Edmonds

[Guest guest]

>The Greeks loved the nude male form, but I suspect this had

>to do with their open attitude toward homosexuality and obsession with

>athletes.

Homosexuality seems to have been a BIG part of their culture (as was slavery

and going to war constantly). I suspect this did have a big effect on their art.

Some philosophers regarded homosexual love as superior to the other

kind. But it seems like it was generally between a grown man and a boy,

not two grown men, which is interesting (less rivalry?).

>I never really found looking at men's bodies very stimulating until I

>practically fainted upon beholding angelo's in the

>Galleria dell'Accademia. Oh, and he has a *small* penis! Of course,

>it's not erect, and we all know how looks can be deceiving!

Well, ok, but angelo was gay too. So was DaVinci, who also drew some

nice male nudes. For an interesting list of gay famous guys, see:

http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/homosexuality/famous/

J. Edgar Hoover and ph McCarthy are on the list ... along with

the founder of the Boy Scouts!

I haven't met a straight guy yet who was interested in looking

at other males, and most women seem to be with you, they

think males are kinda funny looking totally nude. It's really

interesting looking at a magazine rack: all the men's mags have

pretty women on the front. All the women's mags have

pretty women on the front! Except maybe the ones about

Hollywood, which sometimes have cute male movie stars ...

>

Heidi Jean

The trouble with the world is that the

stupid are cocksure and the

intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand

[Guest guest]

>Anyway, I got the book from the show. I don't see a

>one horse member. Now, other artists have no problem with this

>anatomical feature. Snape's Anatomy of an Horse, a 1683

>engraving, has its hangin' loose muscularity right there to see.

C'mon, it was the n Era! And he was working on commission

making paintings the womenfolk would see. Even wore a figleaf

in those days, I think.

In the 1600's folks weren't quite so inhibited.

Heidi Jean

The trouble with the world is that the

stupid are cocksure and the

intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand

[Guest guest]

>>Are you kidding me, lol! I have been told that has been the topic in a

number of rooms AND I accidently overheard one such discussion <g>

<<

~~~Well, one of you saying that, I could ignore, (deciding to let you live in

your happy delusion), but two of you is too much. :-) You guys just love to

think sex is on the minds of us women as much as it is on the minds of you men,

but it simply doesn't compute. It has been proven that men think of sex too

many times a day to count, whereas women go lots of days never thinking of it at

all.

I know I could be starting a new hot debate here, from both sides, and if that

should happen, I'll let the rest of you have at it, because I'm really too old

to care, but I'm going to be VERY honest here, just 'cause. :-) I'm plenty old

enough to have had quite a bit of experience talking with other women about lots

of stuff. (Probably more than most women on this List.) In all these years, I

can't remember one time when the conversation turned to sex when the men left

the room. If they're going to talk about men at all, it's more apt to be in

ways the men wouldn't think was so neat. :-) On the other hand, I do suppose

men talk about it alot, when women leave the room, since that's what men think

about so much of the time anyway.

But, go ahead, dream on. :-) I'm sure there is the occasional woman who is

more sexually oriented than the rest of us, (or more open when the subject has

been broached), but for the most part, even those women, don't talk about it

much when only with a group of other women. And, if they do talk about it, it's

much more apt to be in pairs than in larger groups of women. I have actually

been 'shut down' by other women, if I've brought up the subject, once or twice

in my life. I will admit that, nowdays, there are more uninhibited young women

who like to talk about it openly in group settings like this.....in a sort of

party atmosphere, and I'm doing it myself. But, that's totally different from

what it's like when it's only women in the group. In that case, I've never

once witnessed a group of women talking about sex. Maybe you're watching too

many raunchy movies. :-)

And, of course, no large amount of women are going to swoop in to back me up,

because those are not the women engaged in this thread. (Or probably even

reading it! :-)

Carol

[Guest guest]

>And, of course, no large amount of women are going to swoop in to back me up,

because those are not the women engaged in this thread. (Or probably even

reading it! :-)

>Carol

'Eh, I'll back you up! I've never once heard a woman talking about " sex, "

even during the '70s when supposedly everyone was. The first conversation

I EVER had about " sex " was when I got married, when he finally answered

all those questions (and confessed stuff like he really liked sleeves that

were baggy because he could peek up them, and guys wear dark

glasses so they can stare and no one will know ... sheesh was

I shocked, I had no idea but I started being more careful about

picking out clothes).

The few conversations I have had with women on the subject,

they were mainly talking about their own feelings in the matter,

such as how this one would go to bars and pick up a man for

the night, " just because she wanted some hugs " (which I thought

was insane and also sad).

About " men " yeah we talk ... as in " how come when they do the dishes they

think it's such a big deal but they never wash the pots? " .

Heidi Jean

The trouble with the world is that the

stupid are cocksure and the

intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand

[Guest guest]

Heidi

Thank you! Funny because you hit on just what I was talking about when I said

men might not think what we said about them was so neat! :-)

Carol

'Eh, I'll back you up! I've never once heard a woman talking about " sex, "

even during the '70s when supposedly everyone was. The first conversation

I EVER had about " sex " was when I got married, when he finally answered

all those questions (and confessed stuff like he really liked sleeves that

were baggy because he could peek up them, and guys wear dark

glasses so they can stare and no one will know ... sheesh was

I shocked, I had no idea but I started being more careful about

picking out clothes).

The few conversations I have had with women on the subject,

they were mainly talking about their own feelings in the matter,

such as how this one would go to bars and pick up a man for

the night, " just because she wanted some hugs " (which I thought

was insane and also sad).

About " men " yeah we talk ... as in " how come when they do the dishes they

think it's such a big deal but they never wash the pots? " .

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>> In a message dated 12/2/04 1:15:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>> cah@...

>> writes:

>>

>> > ~~~Maybe I'm living a sheltered life, but I've never been in a room

>> > where

>> > the women talk about sex organs when the men leave the room. I wonder

>> > if

>> > maybe you guys are flattering yourselves! :-)

>>

>> ____

>>

>> ~~~~> No, I'm guessing you just live a sheltered life ;-)

>>

>>

>>

>> Chris

>

>

> I think maybe it's a sign of social class in upbringing... this kind

> of conversation would never have been tolerated... except by the

> snickering kids in the bathroom sneaking cigarettes!

> Catz

My oldest daughter and sister have called me a prude in this department for

not joining in. Even when there wasn't a significant other its something I

never joined in on when women or men went there because they always sounded

crude. Its not a question of it not being appropriate, its the manner of how

its done. Could call it respectful art with few masters.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

C'mon, it was the n Era! And he was working on commission

making paintings the womenfolk would see. Even wore a figleaf

in those days, I think.

In the 1600's folks weren't quite so inhibited. - Heidi Jean

--------------------

n? Isn't that a tad early for that period? Aren't there

n houses in San Francisco? I am no history buff, nor do I need

to see said horsie parts. It's only that usually, a bump (scrotum?) of

sorts is present in stallions. But since I wrote, I have seen a bit of

more stallion-like parts in SOME of Stubb's work. Okay, I am not

obsessing. No. I am not :-)

It all started with our docent telling all the hs kiddies, " Now, this is

a male horse as you can see, and he sired ... " and I'm thinking, " How

can they tell this is a male without the glance underneath - where

nothing exists in the painting - unless MAYBE they have been raised by

horsie-type folks who know other ways to tell a boy horse from a girl,

which ain't unheard of in these here parts. But there is no way the

general kid population can tell. Nor could I, quite frankly, and

perhaps she should have forgotten the whole " as you can see " bs. Thus

my interest.

Stubbs (1724-1806) was alive during the Industrial Revolution,

Romanticism, Realism etc., and I am sure some of you history buffs can

improve on this definition. He did Prince of Whales who would later be

IV.

" n Period (1837-1901) Queen restored dignity to the

crown of England. The 64 years of her reign are known for the expansion

of the British Empire and for scientific and literary achievements that

include the works of Darwin, Browning, and Dickens. "

~~ National Geographic Almanac of World History, by S. s

and G.

Deanna

" Jesus Christ was a realist. " - Gould

[Guest guest]

>

>C'mon, it was the n Era! And he was working on commission

>making paintings the womenfolk would see. Even wore a figleaf

>in those days, I think.

>

>In the 1600's folks weren't quite so inhibited. - Heidi Jean

>--------------------

>

>n? Isn't that a tad early for that period? Aren't there

>n houses in San Francisco? I am no history buff, nor do I need

>to see said horsie parts. It's only that usually, a bump (scrotum?) of

>sorts is present in stallions. But since I wrote, I have seen a bit of

>more stallion-like parts in SOME of Stubb's work. Okay, I am not

>obsessing. No. I am not :-)

I looked at them more and they seem to show mares but not

stallions? I guess he is a *little* early for the n period,

but it seems like they were always trying to protect those

dainty ladies from such things, they might faint, y'know? I

don't know when the daintiness started, but some of the pictures

in the 1600s seem downright ribald, and even more so in,

say, Chaucer's work. But I'm not real good with dates.

This thread reminds me of a fairy tale book my Dad had,

from his childhood times in Germany. It had all kinds of

stuff you would NEVER see in a kids book today ... it was

cartoons, and they always made sure to show the little

anus of the dog when it was seen from behind, for instance.

Which to be sure is THERE when you see a dog, but I never

see it portrayed in cartoons today, which made me realize

we really do edit out more stuff than we think. They also tended to

show kids being eaten by ogres and stuff like that.

Heidi Jean

The trouble with the world is that the

stupid are cocksure and the

intelligent are full of doubt. -Bertrand

[Guest guest]

At 02:47 PM 12/2/04 -0700, you wrote:

>> In a message dated 12/2/04 1:15:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, cah@...

>> writes:

>>

>> > ~~~Maybe I'm living a sheltered life, but I've never been in a room

where

>> > the women talk about sex organs when the men leave the room. I wonder

if

>> > maybe you guys are flattering yourselves! :-)

>>

>> ____

>>

>> ~~~~> No, I'm guessing you just live a sheltered life ;-)

>>

>> Chris

for the record ... I remember one conversation amongst women

regarding specific male attributes.

But the guys were still in the room. :-p

MFJ

Why not ... [all sorts of things]? ~ Anton

[Guest guest]

> > ~~~~> No, I'm guessing you just live a sheltered life ;-)

> >

> >

> >

> > Chris

>

>

> I think maybe it's a sign of social class in upbringing... this kind

> of conversation would never have been tolerated... except by the

> snickering kids in the bathroom sneaking cigarettes!

> Catz

But wait a minute. Many of the gals were chiming in with bra sizes

(IIRC you were one of them) when we were speaking about female anatomy,

but now that we talk about lovely male body parts, the conversation has

gone rather mute on the female side, except for some brave efforts. I

count Carol among the brave, even if we view sexuality differently. It

is like and I discussed, many women are apparently more

comfortable with the sexuality and anatomy of other females than they

are of males. I am just not in the majority here. That's how I see it.

And that makes me wonder: If obsessing over boobs was a *possible* sign

of nourishment lacking, what is obsessing over penises a sign of?

Deanna