Re: Autism: To Vaccinate Or Not to Vaccinate

[Guest guest]

Kassiane, becoming a mother changed me completely, in ways I never

imagined nor could have predicted. I've eaten so many words that I

spoke before motherhood that I've lost count. I think that's what the

comment was about when you were asked if you are a mother. It's not

about opinions not being welcome. It's about perspective.

You are PURE GOLD to us as far as the WEIGHT of your opinion, because

you speak from a perspective that most of us are trying to gain, and

that's to walk in the shoes, see through the eyes of our daughters.

Your comments, opinions, strong positions have also changed me.

We are all works in progress. No one meant any offense or disrespect.

We appreciate you.

PennY

>

> You're trying to say MY opinions arent welcome because IM not a mom.

>

> Kassiane

> sick of the double standard

[Guest guest]

Nope, that's not it at all. It's saying regardless of what label you

have and what label I have, having a child completely changes one's

outlook. Before I had kids I thought I knew it all & could tell

everyone how to be the perfect mom, largely based on how I felt about

how my own mother treated me. I remembered how it felt being a kid.

But, once I had kids, it was just like the commercial when someone

says, " An entire room in my heart opened up. " It's impossible to

explain and has nothing to do with who has what label, it's how

perspectives are different.

My pastor used to talk about a sermon someone did before he had kids

called " 10 ways to raise the perfect child " but after having kids the

sermon changed to " 2 or 3 ways that might possibly help... " I don't

think that pastor had a dx, he just experienced having a kid. It's not

called a miracle of childbirth because of the physical process,

although that's part of it. It's more because of the internal changes

in one's spirit. Sure, parents still screw up royally because we're

human, just like kids screw up royally because they're human.

My SIL has been upset at her 18 yr old son for not coming with her to

church, he's pretty much turned his back on the faith she's tried to

raise him in. From my perspective of remembering being 18, I thought

she should lighten up on the kid, accept it & move on. But then I

started imagining how I would feel if one of my kids gave the faith a

middle finger. I want them so desperately to know the Love of Christ.

I suddenly realized what she was experiencing, not because I was

trying to understand her perspective, but because I experience her

perspective. Before having kids I never would have comprehended this

particular issue, or the thousands more like it. Until that room is

opened, it's a guessing game what it really feels like or causes one

to do.

It has nothing to do with label, it's the miracle of childbirth.

At the same time, you have a great, EQUAL perspective of how it feels

to have autism. Until we've had autism, we cannot fully comprehend the

perspective.

However, being a parent can afford a mom a glimpse in that moms tend

to feel what the kids feel. When Jess comes home & tells me about

having an argument with a friend, I feel it 10 times more than her.

How do I know? She's over it in a few hours, I'm still angry and the

person weeks later. She learns from her experience & moves on, my

heart still aches that someone was mean to her and that she had to

experience it. She wants to cry and tell the person how it made her

feel, I want to give the kid a spanking, go beat up the kids' parents

for raising a brat, and then scream & curse a little. That's the mamma

lion in me wanting to protect my cubbies. I know I can't behave that

way, but that's how it feels. How much more so when we see our kids

get sick. We want to seek out, destroy into oblivion any possible

thing that could ever, ever, ever, ever harm our kids. We are blinded

by this invisible force to protect our kids so much so that we often

fear letting our kids live life.

I accept that from you that you have a unique perspective that I

cannot fully comprehend because I don't have autism, just as you need

to accept you cannot fully comprehend being a parent because you aren't.

Debi

-- In Autism_in_Girls , Kassi

wrote:

>

> You're trying to say MY opinions arent welcome because

> IM not a mom.

>

> That's not fair. You KNOW that isn't fair. The appeal

> to emotions is the NT female (usually female) way of

> saying " I was unfair but want people to think Im the

> good guy anyway, feel sorry for me because Im a MOM

> with an AUTISTIC KID and am SAYING I was trying to be

> the bigger person even if I WASNT " .

>

> I've been in enough of these discussions to know this

> stuff. The " are you a mom? " thing has LESS relevence

> than " are you autistic? "

>

> Kassiane

> sick of the double standard

>

[Guest guest]

Nope, that's not it at all. It's saying regardless of what label you

have and what label I have, having a child completely changes one's

outlook. Before I had kids I thought I knew it all & could tell

everyone how to be the perfect mom, largely based on how I felt about

how my own mother treated me. I remembered how it felt being a kid.

But, once I had kids, it was just like the commercial when someone

says, " An entire room in my heart opened up. " It's impossible to

explain and has nothing to do with who has what label, it's how

perspectives are different.

My pastor used to talk about a sermon someone did before he had kids

called " 10 ways to raise the perfect child " but after having kids the

sermon changed to " 2 or 3 ways that might possibly help... " I don't

think that pastor had a dx, he just experienced having a kid. It's not

called a miracle of childbirth because of the physical process,

although that's part of it. It's more because of the internal changes

in one's spirit. Sure, parents still screw up royally because we're

human, just like kids screw up royally because they're human.

My SIL has been upset at her 18 yr old son for not coming with her to

church, he's pretty much turned his back on the faith she's tried to

raise him in. From my perspective of remembering being 18, I thought

she should lighten up on the kid, accept it & move on. But then I

started imagining how I would feel if one of my kids gave the faith a

middle finger. I want them so desperately to know the Love of Christ.

I suddenly realized what she was experiencing, not because I was

trying to understand her perspective, but because I experience her

perspective. Before having kids I never would have comprehended this

particular issue, or the thousands more like it. Until that room is

opened, it's a guessing game what it really feels like or causes one

to do.

It has nothing to do with label, it's the miracle of childbirth.

At the same time, you have a great, EQUAL perspective of how it feels

to have autism. Until we've had autism, we cannot fully comprehend the

perspective.

However, being a parent can afford a mom a glimpse in that moms tend

to feel what the kids feel. When Jess comes home & tells me about

having an argument with a friend, I feel it 10 times more than her.

How do I know? She's over it in a few hours, I'm still angry and the

person weeks later. She learns from her experience & moves on, my

heart still aches that someone was mean to her and that she had to

experience it. She wants to cry and tell the person how it made her

feel, I want to give the kid a spanking, go beat up the kids' parents

for raising a brat, and then scream & curse a little. That's the mamma

lion in me wanting to protect my cubbies. I know I can't behave that

way, but that's how it feels. How much more so when we see our kids

get sick. We want to seek out, destroy into oblivion any possible

thing that could ever, ever, ever, ever harm our kids. We are blinded

by this invisible force to protect our kids so much so that we often

fear letting our kids live life.

I accept that from you that you have a unique perspective that I

cannot fully comprehend because I don't have autism, just as you need

to accept you cannot fully comprehend being a parent because you aren't.

Debi

-- In Autism_in_Girls , Kassi

wrote:

>

> You're trying to say MY opinions arent welcome because

> IM not a mom.

>

> That's not fair. You KNOW that isn't fair. The appeal

> to emotions is the NT female (usually female) way of

> saying " I was unfair but want people to think Im the

> good guy anyway, feel sorry for me because Im a MOM

> with an AUTISTIC KID and am SAYING I was trying to be

> the bigger person even if I WASNT " .

>

> I've been in enough of these discussions to know this

> stuff. The " are you a mom? " thing has LESS relevence

> than " are you autistic? "

>

> Kassiane

> sick of the double standard

>

[Guest guest]

I already know Im not a mom.

Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as though

you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being a

mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

what that feels like.

Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as to

when what they are doing isn't best (as do all humans)

and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if anything,

makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in holy

water to " bring back the real child " were a great

idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

Kassiane,

raised as though she were posessed or a changeling or

both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know all

--- Debi wrote:

> Nope, that's not it at all. It's saying regardless

> of what label you

> have and what label I have, having a child

> completely changes one's

> outlook. Before I had kids I thought I knew it all &

> could tell

> everyone how to be the perfect mom, largely based on

> how I felt about

> how my own mother treated me. I remembered how it

> felt being a kid.

> But, once I had kids, it was just like the

> commercial when someone

> says, " An entire room in my heart opened up. " It's

> impossible to

> explain and has nothing to do with who has what

> label, it's how

> perspectives are different.

>

> My pastor used to talk about a sermon someone did

> before he had kids

> called " 10 ways to raise the perfect child " but

> after having kids the

> sermon changed to " 2 or 3 ways that might possibly

> help... " I don't

> think that pastor had a dx, he just experienced

> having a kid. It's not

> called a miracle of childbirth because of the

> physical process,

> although that's part of it. It's more because of the

> internal changes

> in one's spirit. Sure, parents still screw up

> royally because we're

> human, just like kids screw up royally because

> they're human.

>

> My SIL has been upset at her 18 yr old son for not

> coming with her to

> church, he's pretty much turned his back on the

> faith she's tried to

> raise him in. From my perspective of remembering

> being 18, I thought

> she should lighten up on the kid, accept it & move

> on. But then I

> started imagining how I would feel if one of my kids

> gave the faith a

> middle finger. I want them so desperately to know

> the Love of Christ.

> I suddenly realized what she was experiencing, not

> because I was

> trying to understand her perspective, but because I

> experience her

> perspective. Before having kids I never would have

> comprehended this

> particular issue, or the thousands more like it.

> Until that room is

> opened, it's a guessing game what it really feels

> like or causes one

> to do.

>

> It has nothing to do with label, it's the miracle of

> childbirth.

>

> At the same time, you have a great, EQUAL

> perspective of how it feels

> to have autism. Until we've had autism, we cannot

> fully comprehend the

> perspective.

>

> However, being a parent can afford a mom a glimpse

> in that moms tend

> to feel what the kids feel. When Jess comes home &

> tells me about

> having an argument with a friend, I feel it 10 times

> more than her.

> How do I know? She's over it in a few hours, I'm

> still angry and the

> person weeks later. She learns from her experience &

> moves on, my

> heart still aches that someone was mean to her and

> that she had to

> experience it. She wants to cry and tell the person

> how it made her

> feel, I want to give the kid a spanking, go beat up

> the kids' parents

> for raising a brat, and then scream & curse a

> little. That's the mamma

> lion in me wanting to protect my cubbies. I know I

> can't behave that

> way, but that's how it feels. How much more so when

> we see our kids

> get sick. We want to seek out, destroy into oblivion

> any possible

> thing that could ever, ever, ever, ever harm our

> kids. We are blinded

> by this invisible force to protect our kids so much

> so that we often

> fear letting our kids live life.

>

> I accept that from you that you have a unique

> perspective that I

> cannot fully comprehend because I don't have autism,

> just as you need

> to accept you cannot fully comprehend being a parent

> because you aren't.

>

> Debi

>

> -- In Autism_in_Girls , Kassi

>

> wrote:

> >

> > You're trying to say MY opinions arent welcome

> because

> > IM not a mom.

> >

> > That's not fair. You KNOW that isn't fair. The

> appeal

> > to emotions is the NT female (usually female) way

> of

> > saying " I was unfair but want people to think Im

> the

> > good guy anyway, feel sorry for me because Im a

> MOM

> > with an AUTISTIC KID and am SAYING I was trying to

> be

> > the bigger person even if I WASNT " .

> >

> > I've been in enough of these discussions to know

> this

> > stuff. The " are you a mom? " thing has LESS

> relevence

> > than " are you autistic? "

> >

> > Kassiane

> > sick of the double standard

> >

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Guest guest]

I already know Im not a mom.

Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as though

you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being a

mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

what that feels like.

Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as to

when what they are doing isn't best (as do all humans)

and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if anything,

makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in holy

water to " bring back the real child " were a great

idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

Kassiane,

raised as though she were posessed or a changeling or

both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know all

--- Debi wrote:

> Nope, that's not it at all. It's saying regardless

> of what label you

> have and what label I have, having a child

> completely changes one's

> outlook. Before I had kids I thought I knew it all &

> could tell

> everyone how to be the perfect mom, largely based on

> how I felt about

> how my own mother treated me. I remembered how it

> felt being a kid.

> But, once I had kids, it was just like the

> commercial when someone

> says, " An entire room in my heart opened up. " It's

> impossible to

> explain and has nothing to do with who has what

> label, it's how

> perspectives are different.

>

> My pastor used to talk about a sermon someone did

> before he had kids

> called " 10 ways to raise the perfect child " but

> after having kids the

> sermon changed to " 2 or 3 ways that might possibly

> help... " I don't

> think that pastor had a dx, he just experienced

> having a kid. It's not

> called a miracle of childbirth because of the

> physical process,

> although that's part of it. It's more because of the

> internal changes

> in one's spirit. Sure, parents still screw up

> royally because we're

> human, just like kids screw up royally because

> they're human.

>

> My SIL has been upset at her 18 yr old son for not

> coming with her to

> church, he's pretty much turned his back on the

> faith she's tried to

> raise him in. From my perspective of remembering

> being 18, I thought

> she should lighten up on the kid, accept it & move

> on. But then I

> started imagining how I would feel if one of my kids

> gave the faith a

> middle finger. I want them so desperately to know

> the Love of Christ.

> I suddenly realized what she was experiencing, not

> because I was

> trying to understand her perspective, but because I

> experience her

> perspective. Before having kids I never would have

> comprehended this

> particular issue, or the thousands more like it.

> Until that room is

> opened, it's a guessing game what it really feels

> like or causes one

> to do.

>

> It has nothing to do with label, it's the miracle of

> childbirth.

>

> At the same time, you have a great, EQUAL

> perspective of how it feels

> to have autism. Until we've had autism, we cannot

> fully comprehend the

> perspective.

>

> However, being a parent can afford a mom a glimpse

> in that moms tend

> to feel what the kids feel. When Jess comes home &

> tells me about

> having an argument with a friend, I feel it 10 times

> more than her.

> How do I know? She's over it in a few hours, I'm

> still angry and the

> person weeks later. She learns from her experience &

> moves on, my

> heart still aches that someone was mean to her and

> that she had to

> experience it. She wants to cry and tell the person

> how it made her

> feel, I want to give the kid a spanking, go beat up

> the kids' parents

> for raising a brat, and then scream & curse a

> little. That's the mamma

> lion in me wanting to protect my cubbies. I know I

> can't behave that

> way, but that's how it feels. How much more so when

> we see our kids

> get sick. We want to seek out, destroy into oblivion

> any possible

> thing that could ever, ever, ever, ever harm our

> kids. We are blinded

> by this invisible force to protect our kids so much

> so that we often

> fear letting our kids live life.

>

> I accept that from you that you have a unique

> perspective that I

> cannot fully comprehend because I don't have autism,

> just as you need

> to accept you cannot fully comprehend being a parent

> because you aren't.

>

> Debi

>

> -- In Autism_in_Girls , Kassi

>

> wrote:

> >

> > You're trying to say MY opinions arent welcome

> because

> > IM not a mom.

> >

> > That's not fair. You KNOW that isn't fair. The

> appeal

> > to emotions is the NT female (usually female) way

> of

> > saying " I was unfair but want people to think Im

> the

> > good guy anyway, feel sorry for me because Im a

> MOM

> > with an AUTISTIC KID and am SAYING I was trying to

> be

> > the bigger person even if I WASNT " .

> >

> > I've been in enough of these discussions to know

> this

> > stuff. The " are you a mom? " thing has LESS

> relevence

> > than " are you autistic? "

> >

> > Kassiane

> > sick of the double standard

> >

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Guest guest]

Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your childhood and your

relationship with your mother. Your mom was probably

overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not have had enough

help and support to do everything the " right " way the way she wanted to,

and her words and actions wereall about HER and not you (although a

little child would not understand that). You do understand, in your

heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are NOT broken!

The original comment/post was about how we moms worry about our

children, it implied how much those of us who are mothers changed the

moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't imagine, and I thought

they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED imagine, but in my

wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to what it's really

like) and you haven't yet had that experience of feeling responsible and

protective in the way that blossoms when we become mothers.

I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than the blind spots,

although you're right, there are blind spots, and one of the reasons WE

are HERE is to help one another identify those blind spots.

Please don't paint all moms through the brush strokes you experienced

with your own mother, don't view us all through that lens. We wouldn't

be here listening to your experience if we didn't want to avoid mistakes

others made, and the absolute last thing I want to do is give any of my

children the idea that they are broken and are mistakes. YOU have

spotlighted for me the fine line between intervention/education in the

right way while supporting and growing who my daughter (with asd) is, as

opposed to intervention that might give her the idea that there's

something " wrong " with the way she is.

Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned by the ND community

for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in support, direction,

illumination of the advocacy and intervention pathways, not condemnation

for wanting to help my children be the best they can be.

PennY

>

> I already know Im not a mom.

>

> Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as though

> you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being a

> mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> what that feels like.

>

> Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as to

> when what they are doing isn't best (as do all humans)

> and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if anything,

> makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in holy

> water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

>

> Kassiane,

> raised as though she were posessed or a changeling or

> both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know all

[Guest guest]

Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your childhood and your

relationship with your mother. Your mom was probably

overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not have had enough

help and support to do everything the " right " way the way she wanted to,

and her words and actions wereall about HER and not you (although a

little child would not understand that). You do understand, in your

heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are NOT broken!

The original comment/post was about how we moms worry about our

children, it implied how much those of us who are mothers changed the

moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't imagine, and I thought

they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED imagine, but in my

wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to what it's really

like) and you haven't yet had that experience of feeling responsible and

protective in the way that blossoms when we become mothers.

I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than the blind spots,

although you're right, there are blind spots, and one of the reasons WE

are HERE is to help one another identify those blind spots.

Please don't paint all moms through the brush strokes you experienced

with your own mother, don't view us all through that lens. We wouldn't

be here listening to your experience if we didn't want to avoid mistakes

others made, and the absolute last thing I want to do is give any of my

children the idea that they are broken and are mistakes. YOU have

spotlighted for me the fine line between intervention/education in the

right way while supporting and growing who my daughter (with asd) is, as

opposed to intervention that might give her the idea that there's

something " wrong " with the way she is.

Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned by the ND community

for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in support, direction,

illumination of the advocacy and intervention pathways, not condemnation

for wanting to help my children be the best they can be.

PennY

>

> I already know Im not a mom.

>

> Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as though

> you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being a

> mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> what that feels like.

>

> Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as to

> when what they are doing isn't best (as do all humans)

> and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if anything,

> makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in holy

> water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

>

> Kassiane,

> raised as though she were posessed or a changeling or

> both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know all

[Guest guest]

hi my name is kristi and i have an autistic 3yr old and a typical 1 and a half

yr old she was vaccinated and he has not been i would not have vaccinated even

if i had another girl i think they have alot to do with autism along with other

factors .should i ever vaccinate my son?

penelope_fam wrote:

Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your childhood and your

relationship with your mother. Your mom was probably

overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not have had enough

help and support to do everything the " right " way the way she wanted to,

and her words and actions wereall about HER and not you (although a

little child would not understand that). You do understand, in your

heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are NOT broken!

The original comment/post was about how we moms worry about our

children, it implied how much those of us who are mothers changed the

moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't imagine, and I thought

they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED imagine, but in my

wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to what it's really

like) and you haven't yet had that experience of feeling responsible and

protective in the way that blossoms when we become mothers.

I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than the blind spots,

although you're right, there are blind spots, and one of the reasons WE

are HERE is to help one another identify those blind spots.

Please don't paint all moms through the brush strokes you experienced

with your own mother, don't view us all through that lens. We wouldn't

be here listening to your experience if we didn't want to avoid mistakes

others made, and the absolute last thing I want to do is give any of my

children the idea that they are broken and are mistakes. YOU have

spotlighted for me the fine line between intervention/education in the

right way while supporting and growing who my daughter (with asd) is, as

opposed to intervention that might give her the idea that there's

something " wrong " with the way she is.

Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned by the ND community

for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in support, direction,

illumination of the advocacy and intervention pathways, not condemnation

for wanting to help my children be the best they can be.

PennY

>

> I already know Im not a mom.

>

> Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as though

> you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being a

> mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> what that feels like.

>

> Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as to

> when what they are doing isn't best (as do all humans)

> and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if anything,

> makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in holy

> water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

>

> Kassiane,

> raised as though she were posessed or a changeling or

> both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know all

[Guest guest]

hi my name is kristi and i have an autistic 3yr old and a typical 1 and a half

yr old she was vaccinated and he has not been i would not have vaccinated even

if i had another girl i think they have alot to do with autism along with other

factors .should i ever vaccinate my son?

penelope_fam wrote:

Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your childhood and your

relationship with your mother. Your mom was probably

overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not have had enough

help and support to do everything the " right " way the way she wanted to,

and her words and actions wereall about HER and not you (although a

little child would not understand that). You do understand, in your

heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are NOT broken!

The original comment/post was about how we moms worry about our

children, it implied how much those of us who are mothers changed the

moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't imagine, and I thought

they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED imagine, but in my

wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to what it's really

like) and you haven't yet had that experience of feeling responsible and

protective in the way that blossoms when we become mothers.

I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than the blind spots,

although you're right, there are blind spots, and one of the reasons WE

are HERE is to help one another identify those blind spots.

Please don't paint all moms through the brush strokes you experienced

with your own mother, don't view us all through that lens. We wouldn't

be here listening to your experience if we didn't want to avoid mistakes

others made, and the absolute last thing I want to do is give any of my

children the idea that they are broken and are mistakes. YOU have

spotlighted for me the fine line between intervention/education in the

right way while supporting and growing who my daughter (with asd) is, as

opposed to intervention that might give her the idea that there's

something " wrong " with the way she is.

Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned by the ND community

for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in support, direction,

illumination of the advocacy and intervention pathways, not condemnation

for wanting to help my children be the best they can be.

PennY

>

> I already know Im not a mom.

>

> Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as though

> you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being a

> mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> what that feels like.

>

> Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as to

> when what they are doing isn't best (as do all humans)

> and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if anything,

> makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in holy

> water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

>

> Kassiane,

> raised as though she were posessed or a changeling or

> both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know all

[Guest guest]

PennY,

As far as my mom is concerned, I AM broken, she did

everything right, and I am just too damn stubborn to

take HER feelings into account and stop being

autistic. She didn't ask for help, just more holy

water.

I grew up feeling broken, damaged, and incredibly

jaded. When I found out about oxytocin and childbirth

I actually thought for a few years that it made women

crazy (and revised my theory a few years later but it

was the ONLY way to explain my mother. Besides, I was

15 and she was STILL CRAZY).

And I don't want that for any kid. My mother is

probably genuinely off her rocker--she didn't ask for

help, didn't TAKE it when it was offered, nothing.

It'd be even worse for a kid who was very much

cherished and loved and it was an ACCIDENT that the

child grew up feeling that way. At least my mom " meant

it that way " , if that makes sense.

Kassiane

--- penelope_fam wrote:

>

> Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your

> childhood and your

> relationship with your mother. Your mom was

> probably

> overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not

> have had enough

> help and support to do everything the " right " way

> the way she wanted to,

> and her words and actions wereall about HER and not

> you (although a

> little child would not understand that). You do

> understand, in your

> heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are

> NOT broken!

>

> The original comment/post was about how we moms

> worry about our

> children, it implied how much those of us who are

> mothers changed the

> moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't

> imagine, and I thought

> they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED

> imagine, but in my

> wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to

> what it's really

> like) and you haven't yet had that experience of

> feeling responsible and

> protective in the way that blossoms when we become

> mothers.

>

> I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than

> the blind spots,

> although you're right, there are blind spots, and

> one of the reasons WE

> are HERE is to help one another identify those blind

> spots.

>

> Please don't paint all moms through the brush

> strokes you experienced

> with your own mother, don't view us all through that

> lens. We wouldn't

> be here listening to your experience if we didn't

> want to avoid mistakes

> others made, and the absolute last thing I want to

> do is give any of my

> children the idea that they are broken and are

> mistakes. YOU have

> spotlighted for me the fine line between

> intervention/education in the

> right way while supporting and growing who my

> daughter (with asd) is, as

> opposed to intervention that might give her the idea

> that there's

> something " wrong " with the way she is.

>

> Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned

> by the ND community

> for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in

> support, direction,

> illumination of the advocacy and intervention

> pathways, not condemnation

> for wanting to help my children be the best they can

> be.

>

> PennY

>

>

>

> >

> > I already know Im not a mom.

> >

> > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> though

> > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> a

> > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > what that feels like.

> >

> > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> to

> > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> humans)

> > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> anything,

> > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> holy

> > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> >

> > Kassiane,

> > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> or

> > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> all

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better pen pal.

Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

PennY,

As far as my mom is concerned, I AM broken, she did

everything right, and I am just too damn stubborn to

take HER feelings into account and stop being

autistic. She didn't ask for help, just more holy

water.

I grew up feeling broken, damaged, and incredibly

jaded. When I found out about oxytocin and childbirth

I actually thought for a few years that it made women

crazy (and revised my theory a few years later but it

was the ONLY way to explain my mother. Besides, I was

15 and she was STILL CRAZY).

And I don't want that for any kid. My mother is

probably genuinely off her rocker--she didn't ask for

help, didn't TAKE it when it was offered, nothing.

It'd be even worse for a kid who was very much

cherished and loved and it was an ACCIDENT that the

child grew up feeling that way. At least my mom " meant

it that way " , if that makes sense.

Kassiane

--- penelope_fam wrote:

>

> Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your

> childhood and your

> relationship with your mother. Your mom was

> probably

> overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not

> have had enough

> help and support to do everything the " right " way

> the way she wanted to,

> and her words and actions wereall about HER and not

> you (although a

> little child would not understand that). You do

> understand, in your

> heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are

> NOT broken!

>

> The original comment/post was about how we moms

> worry about our

> children, it implied how much those of us who are

> mothers changed the

> moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't

> imagine, and I thought

> they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED

> imagine, but in my

> wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to

> what it's really

> like) and you haven't yet had that experience of

> feeling responsible and

> protective in the way that blossoms when we become

> mothers.

>

> I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than

> the blind spots,

> although you're right, there are blind spots, and

> one of the reasons WE

> are HERE is to help one another identify those blind

> spots.

>

> Please don't paint all moms through the brush

> strokes you experienced

> with your own mother, don't view us all through that

> lens. We wouldn't

> be here listening to your experience if we didn't

> want to avoid mistakes

> others made, and the absolute last thing I want to

> do is give any of my

> children the idea that they are broken and are

> mistakes. YOU have

> spotlighted for me the fine line between

> intervention/education in the

> right way while supporting and growing who my

> daughter (with asd) is, as

> opposed to intervention that might give her the idea

> that there's

> something " wrong " with the way she is.

>

> Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned

> by the ND community

> for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in

> support, direction,

> illumination of the advocacy and intervention

> pathways, not condemnation

> for wanting to help my children be the best they can

> be.

>

> PennY

>

>

>

> >

> > I already know Im not a mom.

> >

> > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> though

> > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> a

> > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > what that feels like.

> >

> > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> to

> > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> humans)

> > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> anything,

> > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> holy

> > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> >

> > Kassiane,

> > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> or

> > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> all

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better pen pal.

Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Kristi,

There are a LOT of factors to take into account. You

can have titers tested to see if your son is immune

already, have shots one at a time for the really nasty

stuff (diptheria is nasty, I almost died from whooping

cough and thats making a come back, measles and mumps

have epidemics in areas, rubella is an actual cause of

autism especially in the unborn but people don't

always know they have it which is WHY they vax for

it-prenatal rubella is NASTY stuff sometimes, tetanus

I understand why they do it but it depends on your

son's risk of getting hurt with a rusty nail, etc).

Also take into account family history, personal health

history, et cetera. If I had kids I'd vaccinate-and I

am autistic, with regressions, with a personal history

of reactions to tetanus-but on a slower schedule.

Kassiane

--- Ms kris pritchard

wrote:

> hi my name is kristi and i have an autistic 3yr old

> and a typical 1 and a half yr old she was vaccinated

> and he has not been i would not have vaccinated even

> if i had another girl i think they have alot to do

> with autism along with other factors .should i ever

> vaccinate my son?

>

> penelope_fam wrote:

> Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your

> childhood and your

> relationship with your mother. Your mom was probably

> overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not

> have had enough

> help and support to do everything the " right " way

> the way she wanted to,

> and her words and actions wereall about HER and not

> you (although a

> little child would not understand that). You do

> understand, in your

> heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are

> NOT broken!

>

> The original comment/post was about how we moms

> worry about our

> children, it implied how much those of us who are

> mothers changed the

> moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't

> imagine, and I thought

> they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED

> imagine, but in my

> wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to

> what it's really

> like) and you haven't yet had that experience of

> feeling responsible and

> protective in the way that blossoms when we become

> mothers.

>

> I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than

> the blind spots,

> although you're right, there are blind spots, and

> one of the reasons WE

> are HERE is to help one another identify those blind

> spots.

>

> Please don't paint all moms through the brush

> strokes you experienced

> with your own mother, don't view us all through that

> lens. We wouldn't

> be here listening to your experience if we didn't

> want to avoid mistakes

> others made, and the absolute last thing I want to

> do is give any of my

> children the idea that they are broken and are

> mistakes. YOU have

> spotlighted for me the fine line between

> intervention/education in the

> right way while supporting and growing who my

> daughter (with asd) is, as

> opposed to intervention that might give her the idea

> that there's

> something " wrong " with the way she is.

>

> Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned

> by the ND community

> for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in

> support, direction,

> illumination of the advocacy and intervention

> pathways, not condemnation

> for wanting to help my children be the best they can

> be.

>

> PennY

>

>

> >

> > I already know Im not a mom.

> >

> > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> though

> > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> a

> > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > what that feels like.

> >

> > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> to

> > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> humans)

> > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> anything,

> > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> holy

> > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> >

> > Kassiane,

> > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> or

> > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> all

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you

with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

[Guest guest]

Kristi,

There are a LOT of factors to take into account. You

can have titers tested to see if your son is immune

already, have shots one at a time for the really nasty

stuff (diptheria is nasty, I almost died from whooping

cough and thats making a come back, measles and mumps

have epidemics in areas, rubella is an actual cause of

autism especially in the unborn but people don't

always know they have it which is WHY they vax for

it-prenatal rubella is NASTY stuff sometimes, tetanus

I understand why they do it but it depends on your

son's risk of getting hurt with a rusty nail, etc).

Also take into account family history, personal health

history, et cetera. If I had kids I'd vaccinate-and I

am autistic, with regressions, with a personal history

of reactions to tetanus-but on a slower schedule.

Kassiane

--- Ms kris pritchard

wrote:

> hi my name is kristi and i have an autistic 3yr old

> and a typical 1 and a half yr old she was vaccinated

> and he has not been i would not have vaccinated even

> if i had another girl i think they have alot to do

> with autism along with other factors .should i ever

> vaccinate my son?

>

> penelope_fam wrote:

> Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your

> childhood and your

> relationship with your mother. Your mom was probably

> overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not

> have had enough

> help and support to do everything the " right " way

> the way she wanted to,

> and her words and actions wereall about HER and not

> you (although a

> little child would not understand that). You do

> understand, in your

> heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are

> NOT broken!

>

> The original comment/post was about how we moms

> worry about our

> children, it implied how much those of us who are

> mothers changed the

> moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't

> imagine, and I thought

> they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED

> imagine, but in my

> wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to

> what it's really

> like) and you haven't yet had that experience of

> feeling responsible and

> protective in the way that blossoms when we become

> mothers.

>

> I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than

> the blind spots,

> although you're right, there are blind spots, and

> one of the reasons WE

> are HERE is to help one another identify those blind

> spots.

>

> Please don't paint all moms through the brush

> strokes you experienced

> with your own mother, don't view us all through that

> lens. We wouldn't

> be here listening to your experience if we didn't

> want to avoid mistakes

> others made, and the absolute last thing I want to

> do is give any of my

> children the idea that they are broken and are

> mistakes. YOU have

> spotlighted for me the fine line between

> intervention/education in the

> right way while supporting and growing who my

> daughter (with asd) is, as

> opposed to intervention that might give her the idea

> that there's

> something " wrong " with the way she is.

>

> Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned

> by the ND community

> for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in

> support, direction,

> illumination of the advocacy and intervention

> pathways, not condemnation

> for wanting to help my children be the best they can

> be.

>

> PennY

>

>

> >

> > I already know Im not a mom.

> >

> > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> though

> > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> a

> > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > what that feels like.

> >

> > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> to

> > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> humans)

> > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> anything,

> > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> holy

> > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> >

> > Kassiane,

> > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> or

> > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> all

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you

with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

[Guest guest]

I would suggest you research each disease, prevalence, method of

transmission, symptoms, recovery/death rates, and then study each

vaccine, complications, etc. Like for me, I'm not interested in

getting my girls a rubella shot through childhood at all, but during

mid-teen years I might revisit the issue because of them possibly

having kids one day. But like with pertussis, two of my three have had

it, so there's no need to immunize for that, or chicken pox. And other

things, like the flu,meningitis, or pneumonia, I would probably never

immunize for because I don't think it's been proven effective, risk of

immunization too great, etc.

HTH,

Debi

>

> hi my name is kristi and i have an autistic 3yr old and a typical 1

and a half yr old she was vaccinated and he has not been i would not

have vaccinated even if i had another girl i think they have alot to

do with autism along with other factors .should i ever vaccinate my son?

>

[Guest guest]

I would suggest you research each disease, prevalence, method of

transmission, symptoms, recovery/death rates, and then study each

vaccine, complications, etc. Like for me, I'm not interested in

getting my girls a rubella shot through childhood at all, but during

mid-teen years I might revisit the issue because of them possibly

having kids one day. But like with pertussis, two of my three have had

it, so there's no need to immunize for that, or chicken pox. And other

things, like the flu,meningitis, or pneumonia, I would probably never

immunize for because I don't think it's been proven effective, risk of

immunization too great, etc.

HTH,

Debi

>

> hi my name is kristi and i have an autistic 3yr old and a typical 1

and a half yr old she was vaccinated and he has not been i would not

have vaccinated even if i had another girl i think they have alot to

do with autism along with other factors .should i ever vaccinate my son?

>

[Guest guest]

Kassiane,

Just thought I'd say hi. I don't think we have ever spoken before. I just

wanted to share with you that my mother was and is also Off Her Rocker. For

anyone who has never been there, it is no joke being raised by someone like

that. Mental illness distorts your childhood as well as your outlook on life.

I am 40 and still dealing with it.

Terri

Re: Re: Autism: To Vaccinate Or Not to Vaccinate

PennY,

As far as my mom is concerned, I AM broken, she did

everything right, and I am just too damn stubborn to

take HER feelings into account and stop being

autistic. She didn't ask for help, just more holy

water.

I grew up feeling broken, damaged, and incredibly

jaded. When I found out about oxytocin and childbirth

I actually thought for a few years that it made women

crazy (and revised my theory a few years later but it

was the ONLY way to explain my mother. Besides, I was

15 and she was STILL CRAZY).

And I don't want that for any kid. My mother is

probably genuinely off her rocker--she didn't ask for

help, didn't TAKE it when it was offered, nothing.

It'd be even worse for a kid who was very much

cherished and loved and it was an ACCIDENT that the

child grew up feeling that way. At least my mom " meant

it that way " , if that makes sense.

Kassiane

--- penelope_fam wrote:

>

> Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your

> childhood and your

> relationship with your mother. Your mom was

> probably

> overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not

> have had enough

> help and support to do everything the " right " way

> the way she wanted to,

> and her words and actions wereall about HER and not

> you (although a

> little child would not understand that). You do

> understand, in your

> heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are

> NOT broken!

>

> The original comment/post was about how we moms

> worry about our

> children, it implied how much those of us who are

> mothers changed the

> moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't

> imagine, and I thought

> they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED

> imagine, but in my

> wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to

> what it's really

> like) and you haven't yet had that experience of

> feeling responsible and

> protective in the way that blossoms when we become

> mothers.

>

> I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than

> the blind spots,

> although you're right, there are blind spots, and

> one of the reasons WE

> are HERE is to help one another identify those blind

> spots.

>

> Please don't paint all moms through the brush

> strokes you experienced

> with your own mother, don't view us all through that

> lens. We wouldn't

> be here listening to your experience if we didn't

> want to avoid mistakes

> others made, and the absolute last thing I want to

> do is give any of my

> children the idea that they are broken and are

> mistakes. YOU have

> spotlighted for me the fine line between

> intervention/education in the

> right way while supporting and growing who my

> daughter (with asd) is, as

> opposed to intervention that might give her the idea

> that there's

> something " wrong " with the way she is.

>

> Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned

> by the ND community

> for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in

> support, direction,

> illumination of the advocacy and intervention

> pathways, not condemnation

> for wanting to help my children be the best they can

> be.

>

> PennY

>

>

>

> >

> > I already know Im not a mom.

> >

> > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> though

> > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> a

> > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > what that feels like.

> >

> > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> to

> > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> humans)

> > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> anything,

> > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> holy

> > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> >

> > Kassiane,

> > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> or

> > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> all

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________________

Be a better pen pal.

Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Kassiane,

Just thought I'd say hi. I don't think we have ever spoken before. I just

wanted to share with you that my mother was and is also Off Her Rocker. For

anyone who has never been there, it is no joke being raised by someone like

that. Mental illness distorts your childhood as well as your outlook on life.

I am 40 and still dealing with it.

Terri

Re: Re: Autism: To Vaccinate Or Not to Vaccinate

PennY,

As far as my mom is concerned, I AM broken, she did

everything right, and I am just too damn stubborn to

take HER feelings into account and stop being

autistic. She didn't ask for help, just more holy

water.

I grew up feeling broken, damaged, and incredibly

jaded. When I found out about oxytocin and childbirth

I actually thought for a few years that it made women

crazy (and revised my theory a few years later but it

was the ONLY way to explain my mother. Besides, I was

15 and she was STILL CRAZY).

And I don't want that for any kid. My mother is

probably genuinely off her rocker--she didn't ask for

help, didn't TAKE it when it was offered, nothing.

It'd be even worse for a kid who was very much

cherished and loved and it was an ACCIDENT that the

child grew up feeling that way. At least my mom " meant

it that way " , if that makes sense.

Kassiane

--- penelope_fam wrote:

>

> Kassi, my heart breaks when I read about your

> childhood and your

> relationship with your mother. Your mom was

> probably

> overwhelmed--triplets are a handful--and she may not

> have had enough

> help and support to do everything the " right " way

> the way she wanted to,

> and her words and actions wereall about HER and not

> you (although a

> little child would not understand that). You do

> understand, in your

> heart and in your intellect, don't you, that YOU are

> NOT broken!

>

> The original comment/post was about how we moms

> worry about our

> children, it implied how much those of us who are

> mothers changed the

> moment we became moms (people told me I couldn't

> imagine, and I thought

> they were crazy, because I thought I COULD INDEED

> imagine, but in my

> wildest imagination, I couldn't even come close to

> what it's really

> like) and you haven't yet had that experience of

> feeling responsible and

> protective in the way that blossoms when we become

> mothers.

>

> I think we moms have a stronger gut instinct than

> the blind spots,

> although you're right, there are blind spots, and

> one of the reasons WE

> are HERE is to help one another identify those blind

> spots.

>

> Please don't paint all moms through the brush

> strokes you experienced

> with your own mother, don't view us all through that

> lens. We wouldn't

> be here listening to your experience if we didn't

> want to avoid mistakes

> others made, and the absolute last thing I want to

> do is give any of my

> children the idea that they are broken and are

> mistakes. YOU have

> spotlighted for me the fine line between

> intervention/education in the

> right way while supporting and growing who my

> daughter (with asd) is, as

> opposed to intervention that might give her the idea

> that there's

> something " wrong " with the way she is.

>

> Sometimes we parents feel like we're being condemned

> by the ND community

> for whatEVER we do or ask. I'm interested in

> support, direction,

> illumination of the advocacy and intervention

> pathways, not condemnation

> for wanting to help my children be the best they can

> be.

>

> PennY

>

>

>

> >

> > I already know Im not a mom.

> >

> > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> though

> > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> a

> > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > what that feels like.

> >

> > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> to

> > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> humans)

> > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> anything,

> > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> holy

> > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> >

> > Kassiane,

> > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> or

> > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> all

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I agree. My mom was nuts. When I was 5 I had twisted my ankle. She

thought I was faking it that I couldn't walk and drug me across the

very long concrete sidewalk, screaming at me to stand. Of course, the

swollen, blue ankle was faking it, too. Then there was the time she

took a switch to my brother because he couldn't ride his bike in the

3rd grade, took him down the hill in front of all the neighborhood

kids & every time he fell off his bike she hit him with the switch.

That night he showed me scabs all over his thighs, not to mention the

scabs in his heart that all the kids at witnessed it. My brother had

significant math problems, when he couldn't do his homework becuase he

didn't understand, they would start screaming at him.

Then there was the time I hung from the barrel of a shotgun, begging

my parents not to kill each other, I think I was 9-10 at the time.

That was in between watching my parents beat up each other, the many

nights I ran across the street to beg the police officer to help me,

only to have him tell me sorry & shut the door. She used to shake,

hit, and scream at me regularly until I was 15 came at me, I snapped

and was going to kill her. When I saw the fear in her eyes as I was

choking her I stopped. Never hit me again after that. There was the

time I was on swim team & asked my mom to come see me compete, she

told me she only had one night off from work (nurse) each week and she

" ...sure as hell wasn't going to spend it watching me swim... "

But in between all that my mother would go through phases of binge

eating, vomiting, then working for days on end without coming home,

after my father died when I was 11, then she would stay in her room

for days, only coming out to go to the bathroom. It wasn't a grieving

widow, they were getting divorce when he died.

So you see, having a crazy mother is nothing new to many of us. I've

had years of counseling to get me to a semi-sane state. <g> I thought

I was broken for a lot of years, and I never had any label put on me,

other than " fat " or a " pretty face ugly body " or " you'd be pretty if "

labels. For most of my childhood and early adult years, those labels

where who I was. Now I'm just plain old me. You have to experience me

to label me, ROFL!

Debi

> > >

> > > I already know Im not a mom.

> > >

> > > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> > though

> > > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> > a

> > > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > > what that feels like.

> > >

> > > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> > to

> > > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> > humans)

> > > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> > anything,

> > > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> > holy

> > > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> > >

> > > Kassiane,

> > > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> > or

> > > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> > all

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Be a better pen pal.

> Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. My mom was nuts. When I was 5 I had twisted my ankle. She

thought I was faking it that I couldn't walk and drug me across the

very long concrete sidewalk, screaming at me to stand. Of course, the

swollen, blue ankle was faking it, too. Then there was the time she

took a switch to my brother because he couldn't ride his bike in the

3rd grade, took him down the hill in front of all the neighborhood

kids & every time he fell off his bike she hit him with the switch.

That night he showed me scabs all over his thighs, not to mention the

scabs in his heart that all the kids at witnessed it. My brother had

significant math problems, when he couldn't do his homework becuase he

didn't understand, they would start screaming at him.

Then there was the time I hung from the barrel of a shotgun, begging

my parents not to kill each other, I think I was 9-10 at the time.

That was in between watching my parents beat up each other, the many

nights I ran across the street to beg the police officer to help me,

only to have him tell me sorry & shut the door. She used to shake,

hit, and scream at me regularly until I was 15 came at me, I snapped

and was going to kill her. When I saw the fear in her eyes as I was

choking her I stopped. Never hit me again after that. There was the

time I was on swim team & asked my mom to come see me compete, she

told me she only had one night off from work (nurse) each week and she

" ...sure as hell wasn't going to spend it watching me swim... "

But in between all that my mother would go through phases of binge

eating, vomiting, then working for days on end without coming home,

after my father died when I was 11, then she would stay in her room

for days, only coming out to go to the bathroom. It wasn't a grieving

widow, they were getting divorce when he died.

So you see, having a crazy mother is nothing new to many of us. I've

had years of counseling to get me to a semi-sane state. <g> I thought

I was broken for a lot of years, and I never had any label put on me,

other than " fat " or a " pretty face ugly body " or " you'd be pretty if "

labels. For most of my childhood and early adult years, those labels

where who I was. Now I'm just plain old me. You have to experience me

to label me, ROFL!

Debi

> > >

> > > I already know Im not a mom.

> > >

> > > Being a mom doesn't trump that being raised as

> > though

> > > you're broken and a mistake sucks, nor does being

> > a

> > > mom magically confer on anyone the ability to know

> > > what that feels like.

> > >

> > > Mothers DON'T know all, and have a BLIND SPOT as

> > to

> > > when what they are doing isn't best (as do all

> > humans)

> > > and frankly the miracle of childbirth, if

> > anything,

> > > makes it stronger. Unless you think the baths in

> > holy

> > > water to " bring back the real child " were a great

> > > idea, in which case, FINE. Go talk to my MOTHER.

> > >

> > > Kassiane,

> > > raised as though she were posessed or a changeling

> > or

> > > both, broken, and fully resented. But mothers know

> > all

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Be a better pen pal.

> Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

>

>

>

>

>