Re: The defining moment- limited and or no contact

[Guest guest]

Hi Malinda, Kyla and Jackie,

thanks so much for your e-mails. I am actually feeling a lot

better, and I know that that is due in large part to being able to

post to this group as a source of support. I also know that while

it does throw me to speak to her and experience the full force of

her projections, I can recover so much faster than I used to - while

I felt a bit low last night, this morning I was fine.

You know what struck me about the conversation? I really think she

was talking about herself - obviously she tried so hard to convince

herself that she had a wonderful childhood, wonderful parents, and

got rid of whatever " sick fantasies " she had of being abused. I had

the impression that she was hinting that I had recovered some

repressed memory of sexual abuse - which I strongly suspect is

something she suffered and has spent a lifetime running from.

Anyway, in practical advice terms, I am shopping tomorrow for the

caller-id phone

thanks as always for listening!

Sara

>

> get an answering machine and stop answering the phone :-) your

mother is an

> adult ( she doesn't act like one, but she is by age) as are

you...you are

> not responsible for her happiness nor sadness...and she can't

irratae/upset

> you unless you allow it ( I know, it's easier said than done, I'm

working on

> it in myself)

>

> Jackie

>

> Hi all, I wish that I could make the break...I just had my second

> phone call today from my mother. In the first I told her that we

> had asked her not to send the box of gifts and that we were

donating

> it to charity. Her response was that I must be feeling unwell,

> despite my assurances to the contrary. She keeps hoping that I'll

> come down with postnatal depression and come racing back home.

>

> In the second phone call, she called with her steely, angry voice

> and told me that I needed to come home to visit.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Malinda, Kyla and Jackie,

thanks so much for your e-mails. I am actually feeling a lot

better, and I know that that is due in large part to being able to

post to this group as a source of support. I also know that while

it does throw me to speak to her and experience the full force of

her projections, I can recover so much faster than I used to - while

I felt a bit low last night, this morning I was fine.

You know what struck me about the conversation? I really think she

was talking about herself - obviously she tried so hard to convince

herself that she had a wonderful childhood, wonderful parents, and

got rid of whatever " sick fantasies " she had of being abused. I had

the impression that she was hinting that I had recovered some

repressed memory of sexual abuse - which I strongly suspect is

something she suffered and has spent a lifetime running from.

Anyway, in practical advice terms, I am shopping tomorrow for the

caller-id phone

thanks as always for listening!

Sara

>

> get an answering machine and stop answering the phone :-) your

mother is an

> adult ( she doesn't act like one, but she is by age) as are

you...you are

> not responsible for her happiness nor sadness...and she can't

irratae/upset

> you unless you allow it ( I know, it's easier said than done, I'm

working on

> it in myself)

>

> Jackie

>

> Hi all, I wish that I could make the break...I just had my second

> phone call today from my mother. In the first I told her that we

> had asked her not to send the box of gifts and that we were

donating

> it to charity. Her response was that I must be feeling unwell,

> despite my assurances to the contrary. She keeps hoping that I'll

> come down with postnatal depression and come racing back home.

>

> In the second phone call, she called with her steely, angry voice

> and told me that I needed to come home to visit.

>

[Guest guest]

Unlike most people on here, the phone is only way I can communicate

with my fada. When I went off to college (not physically far away

but I wasn't seeing my family every day anymore either) I had a hard

time dealing with him on the phone. The first time I hung up on him

I felt physically ill. Not just rude but sick to my stomach.

Unfortunately, it took a lot of crap for me to hang up.

Each time I did it it got easier and how many minutes I would waste

arguing with him would get fewer and fewer. One night I hung up on

him over a dozen times. Each time I answered the phone he got a

fresh start. Each time he acted out he got a hang up. After this

went on for what seemed like forever he finally figured out that if

he was nice I would stay on the line and talk. When he was calm I

told him that if he couldn't talk politely to me on the phone then

he would get a hang up. Of course, he acted like nothing had

happened. AAARGH!!! I had to hang up every time he said something

nasty for him to get the message that I was really serious about it,

but now he knows that is a weapon I won't hesitate to use.

Nowadays I hang up on him maybe twice a year. Even though it's far

less I still feel enraged when it happens but I quickly move on to

other things. This is my life and I refuse to let him poison it. I

would never hang up on anyone else, I feel it's rude and

manipulative, but if he's going to be rude then so am I. These days

I will slap the phone shut without thinking twice about it if I hear

anything I don't like. If it's just the tone in his voice I'll

say 'do you want to keep talking or not?' Some days I sound more

like the parent than the kid.

B

> > >

> > > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

> didn't

> > ask to be

> > > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help

themselves)

> > but it's NOT

> > > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> > either...you have

> > > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> > torturing

> > > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own

problems,

> > many

> > > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my

own

> > > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

> different

> > as

> > > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Unlike most people on here, the phone is only way I can communicate

with my fada. When I went off to college (not physically far away

but I wasn't seeing my family every day anymore either) I had a hard

time dealing with him on the phone. The first time I hung up on him

I felt physically ill. Not just rude but sick to my stomach.

Unfortunately, it took a lot of crap for me to hang up.

Each time I did it it got easier and how many minutes I would waste

arguing with him would get fewer and fewer. One night I hung up on

him over a dozen times. Each time I answered the phone he got a

fresh start. Each time he acted out he got a hang up. After this

went on for what seemed like forever he finally figured out that if

he was nice I would stay on the line and talk. When he was calm I

told him that if he couldn't talk politely to me on the phone then

he would get a hang up. Of course, he acted like nothing had

happened. AAARGH!!! I had to hang up every time he said something

nasty for him to get the message that I was really serious about it,

but now he knows that is a weapon I won't hesitate to use.

Nowadays I hang up on him maybe twice a year. Even though it's far

less I still feel enraged when it happens but I quickly move on to

other things. This is my life and I refuse to let him poison it. I

would never hang up on anyone else, I feel it's rude and

manipulative, but if he's going to be rude then so am I. These days

I will slap the phone shut without thinking twice about it if I hear

anything I don't like. If it's just the tone in his voice I'll

say 'do you want to keep talking or not?' Some days I sound more

like the parent than the kid.

B

> > >

> > > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

> didn't

> > ask to be

> > > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help

themselves)

> > but it's NOT

> > > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> > either...you have

> > > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> > torturing

> > > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own

problems,

> > many

> > > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my

own

> > > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

> different

> > as

> > > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Unlike most people on here, the phone is only way I can communicate

with my fada. When I went off to college (not physically far away

but I wasn't seeing my family every day anymore either) I had a hard

time dealing with him on the phone. The first time I hung up on him

I felt physically ill. Not just rude but sick to my stomach.

Unfortunately, it took a lot of crap for me to hang up.

Each time I did it it got easier and how many minutes I would waste

arguing with him would get fewer and fewer. One night I hung up on

him over a dozen times. Each time I answered the phone he got a

fresh start. Each time he acted out he got a hang up. After this

went on for what seemed like forever he finally figured out that if

he was nice I would stay on the line and talk. When he was calm I

told him that if he couldn't talk politely to me on the phone then

he would get a hang up. Of course, he acted like nothing had

happened. AAARGH!!! I had to hang up every time he said something

nasty for him to get the message that I was really serious about it,

but now he knows that is a weapon I won't hesitate to use.

Nowadays I hang up on him maybe twice a year. Even though it's far

less I still feel enraged when it happens but I quickly move on to

other things. This is my life and I refuse to let him poison it. I

would never hang up on anyone else, I feel it's rude and

manipulative, but if he's going to be rude then so am I. These days

I will slap the phone shut without thinking twice about it if I hear

anything I don't like. If it's just the tone in his voice I'll

say 'do you want to keep talking or not?' Some days I sound more

like the parent than the kid.

B

> > >

> > > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

> didn't

> > ask to be

> > > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help

themselves)

> > but it's NOT

> > > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> > either...you have

> > > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> > torturing

> > > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own

problems,

> > many

> > > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my

own

> > > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

> different

> > as

> > > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Isn't it ironic that your mother expects you to 'get over' the

abusive things that happened to you as a child - yet she, as an

adult, can't 'get over' not having a daily call from you?

I would like to validate that the way you handled yourself was

understandable and justifiable. I know that the only way I can get

my nada to really pay attention to me is if I yell at her! This is

something I don't want to do, and it is something I refuse to do for

the sole purpose of keeping a relationship with her. It is a lose-

lose situation for me, and so I will not be a part of it.

Take care,

sylvia

>

> I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

have a

> job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

multitude of

> reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I

would

> get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

> Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

>

> It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day

and no

> amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? "

I'd

> say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? "

And

> EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't

call

> her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> sometimes weepy, other times icy.

>

> Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

violently; I

> was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me.

I

> screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

> neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

> bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

> nothing!

>

> I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

> day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that

and

> you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

trips,

> the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

really

> mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you

will

> treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult,

it is

> MY decision what I do with my time.

>

> Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving

this "

> and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always

was to

> me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I

said

> " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

> and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so

well

> " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

>

> So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

> stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time.

We

> have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when

we

> do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so

FREE

> now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

> more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

> and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

> again, I am ready to change my phone number.

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I

ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and

I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

Isn't it ironic that your mother expects you to 'get over' the

abusive things that happened to you as a child - yet she, as an

adult, can't 'get over' not having a daily call from you?

I would like to validate that the way you handled yourself was

understandable and justifiable. I know that the only way I can get

my nada to really pay attention to me is if I yell at her! This is

something I don't want to do, and it is something I refuse to do for

the sole purpose of keeping a relationship with her. It is a lose-

lose situation for me, and so I will not be a part of it.

Take care,

sylvia

>

> I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

have a

> job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

multitude of

> reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I

would

> get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

> Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

>

> It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day

and no

> amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? "

I'd

> say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? "

And

> EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't

call

> her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> sometimes weepy, other times icy.

>

> Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

violently; I

> was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me.

I

> screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

> neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

> bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

> nothing!

>

> I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

> day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that

and

> you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

trips,

> the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

really

> mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you

will

> treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult,

it is

> MY decision what I do with my time.

>

> Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving

this "

> and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always

was to

> me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I

said

> " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

> and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so

well

> " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

>

> So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

> stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time.

We

> have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when

we

> do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so

FREE

> now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

> more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

> and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

> again, I am ready to change my phone number.

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I

ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and

I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

Isn't it ironic that your mother expects you to 'get over' the

abusive things that happened to you as a child - yet she, as an

adult, can't 'get over' not having a daily call from you?

I would like to validate that the way you handled yourself was

understandable and justifiable. I know that the only way I can get

my nada to really pay attention to me is if I yell at her! This is

something I don't want to do, and it is something I refuse to do for

the sole purpose of keeping a relationship with her. It is a lose-

lose situation for me, and so I will not be a part of it.

Take care,

sylvia

>

> I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

have a

> job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

multitude of

> reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I

would

> get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

> Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

>

> It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day

and no

> amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? "

I'd

> say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? "

And

> EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't

call

> her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> sometimes weepy, other times icy.

>

> Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

violently; I

> was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me.

I

> screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

> neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

> bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

> nothing!

>

> I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

> day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that

and

> you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

trips,

> the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

really

> mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you

will

> treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult,

it is

> MY decision what I do with my time.

>

> Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving

this "

> and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always

was to

> me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I

said

> " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

> and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so

well

> " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

>

> So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

> stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time.

We

> have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when

we

> do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so

FREE

> now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

> more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

> and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

> again, I am ready to change my phone number.

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I

ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and

I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you that the phone call went on too long. But this is

how we learn how to set and defend our boundaries. I'll bet the

next call will not be so long.

Your mother says many of the same guilt producing things mine used

to say to me. My mother, too, believes I have been duped by my

therapist. It is, as always, my fault and not hers. (She, of

course, is too smart to be duped by anyone, and I, of course, am so

dumb that I need her to tell me what I should and should not do. -

ah yes, the gospel according to nada.)

It sounds like your mother is really threatened by your independence

and how well you are doing without her. She is throwing out a lot

of statements to make you doubt yourself.

Your mother does not want to accept that you have your own life, and

that life doesn't revolve around her! Healthy parents raise their

children to become independent and self-sufficient adults. They

don't raise them to come running home to momma everything momma

sneezes!

You have nothing to feel guilty about.

Take care,

Sylvia

> >

> > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

didn't

> ask to be

> > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves)

> but it's NOT

> > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> either...you have

> > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> torturing

> > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems,

> many

> > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

> > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

different

> as

> > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you that the phone call went on too long. But this is

how we learn how to set and defend our boundaries. I'll bet the

next call will not be so long.

Your mother says many of the same guilt producing things mine used

to say to me. My mother, too, believes I have been duped by my

therapist. It is, as always, my fault and not hers. (She, of

course, is too smart to be duped by anyone, and I, of course, am so

dumb that I need her to tell me what I should and should not do. -

ah yes, the gospel according to nada.)

It sounds like your mother is really threatened by your independence

and how well you are doing without her. She is throwing out a lot

of statements to make you doubt yourself.

Your mother does not want to accept that you have your own life, and

that life doesn't revolve around her! Healthy parents raise their

children to become independent and self-sufficient adults. They

don't raise them to come running home to momma everything momma

sneezes!

You have nothing to feel guilty about.

Take care,

Sylvia

> >

> > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

didn't

> ask to be

> > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves)

> but it's NOT

> > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> either...you have

> > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> torturing

> > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems,

> many

> > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

> > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

different

> as

> > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you that the phone call went on too long. But this is

how we learn how to set and defend our boundaries. I'll bet the

next call will not be so long.

Your mother says many of the same guilt producing things mine used

to say to me. My mother, too, believes I have been duped by my

therapist. It is, as always, my fault and not hers. (She, of

course, is too smart to be duped by anyone, and I, of course, am so

dumb that I need her to tell me what I should and should not do. -

ah yes, the gospel according to nada.)

It sounds like your mother is really threatened by your independence

and how well you are doing without her. She is throwing out a lot

of statements to make you doubt yourself.

Your mother does not want to accept that you have your own life, and

that life doesn't revolve around her! Healthy parents raise their

children to become independent and self-sufficient adults. They

don't raise them to come running home to momma everything momma

sneezes!

You have nothing to feel guilty about.

Take care,

Sylvia

> >

> > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

didn't

> ask to be

> > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves)

> but it's NOT

> > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> either...you have

> > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> torturing

> > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems,

> many

> > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

> > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

different

> as

> > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I know even now, you are not your mother, and you will not turn out

like her. You wouldn't be here if you were like her.

Yes, i am courageous - sometimes I drag my feet and procrastinate

before I muster up the courage I need! But I am courageous, because

i do what I need to do - regardless of how frightened I am. And at

times I am very frightened.

You quoted my motto - To thine own self be true! That was another

hard earned lesson. How cool is that?

Take care,

Sylvia

> >

> > Malinda,

> >

> > First, this is the right place to come to for unloading! Does

> your

> > nada call every day? I hope not. That is really too much for

you

> > to deal with.

> >

> > You asked where some of us got the strength to go no contact. I

> > know strength was required, but for me it was also desperation.

I

> > had spent a lifetime getting healthy - various types of theray

and

> > self help since I was 21. And then in my late 50s, on vacation

> with

> > nada, taking care of my daughter who was undergoing treatment

for

> > thyroid cancer, nada chose to go into one of her rages. It was

> more

> > than an 'ah ha' moment. It was a life defining moment.

> >

> > I saw so clearly that I had created a healthy life for myself,

but

> I

> > still allowed her polution into that life. And I knew that each

> > time I allowed her in, I was also allowing a little of my own

soul

> > to be crushed, to be ignored, to die. From that point, it was

> over

> > a year until I wrote a letter to both nada and dishrag

explaining

> > that I was not going to stay in contact with them. (Dishrag got

a

> > copy, because I knew not to depend on nada to share her

letter.)

> >

> > I went no contact, dealt with many emotional issues because of

> it.

> > I am now visiting my dad in the hospital every day, and as a

> > consequence, I run into nada. This is a new phase in my

> recovery.

> > I don't know how it will turn out. I take each day as it comes,

I

> > have found faith in myself that I will be able to deal with what

> > happens, and I am committed to taking care of myself.

> >

> > Sylvia

> .......

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I know even now, you are not your mother, and you will not turn out

like her. You wouldn't be here if you were like her.

Yes, i am courageous - sometimes I drag my feet and procrastinate

before I muster up the courage I need! But I am courageous, because

i do what I need to do - regardless of how frightened I am. And at

times I am very frightened.

You quoted my motto - To thine own self be true! That was another

hard earned lesson. How cool is that?

Take care,

Sylvia

> >

> > Malinda,

> >

> > First, this is the right place to come to for unloading! Does

> your

> > nada call every day? I hope not. That is really too much for

you

> > to deal with.

> >

> > You asked where some of us got the strength to go no contact. I

> > know strength was required, but for me it was also desperation.

I

> > had spent a lifetime getting healthy - various types of theray

and

> > self help since I was 21. And then in my late 50s, on vacation

> with

> > nada, taking care of my daughter who was undergoing treatment

for

> > thyroid cancer, nada chose to go into one of her rages. It was

> more

> > than an 'ah ha' moment. It was a life defining moment.

> >

> > I saw so clearly that I had created a healthy life for myself,

but

> I

> > still allowed her polution into that life. And I knew that each

> > time I allowed her in, I was also allowing a little of my own

soul

> > to be crushed, to be ignored, to die. From that point, it was

> over

> > a year until I wrote a letter to both nada and dishrag

explaining

> > that I was not going to stay in contact with them. (Dishrag got

a

> > copy, because I knew not to depend on nada to share her

letter.)

> >

> > I went no contact, dealt with many emotional issues because of

> it.

> > I am now visiting my dad in the hospital every day, and as a

> > consequence, I run into nada. This is a new phase in my

> recovery.

> > I don't know how it will turn out. I take each day as it comes,

I

> > have found faith in myself that I will be able to deal with what

> > happens, and I am committed to taking care of myself.

> >

> > Sylvia

> .......

[Guest guest]

Tori,

I know even now, you are not your mother, and you will not turn out

like her. You wouldn't be here if you were like her.

Yes, i am courageous - sometimes I drag my feet and procrastinate

before I muster up the courage I need! But I am courageous, because

i do what I need to do - regardless of how frightened I am. And at

times I am very frightened.

You quoted my motto - To thine own self be true! That was another

hard earned lesson. How cool is that?

Take care,

Sylvia

> >

> > Malinda,

> >

> > First, this is the right place to come to for unloading! Does

> your

> > nada call every day? I hope not. That is really too much for

you

> > to deal with.

> >

> > You asked where some of us got the strength to go no contact. I

> > know strength was required, but for me it was also desperation.

I

> > had spent a lifetime getting healthy - various types of theray

and

> > self help since I was 21. And then in my late 50s, on vacation

> with

> > nada, taking care of my daughter who was undergoing treatment

for

> > thyroid cancer, nada chose to go into one of her rages. It was

> more

> > than an 'ah ha' moment. It was a life defining moment.

> >

> > I saw so clearly that I had created a healthy life for myself,

but

> I

> > still allowed her polution into that life. And I knew that each

> > time I allowed her in, I was also allowing a little of my own

soul

> > to be crushed, to be ignored, to die. From that point, it was

> over

> > a year until I wrote a letter to both nada and dishrag

explaining

> > that I was not going to stay in contact with them. (Dishrag got

a

> > copy, because I knew not to depend on nada to share her

letter.)

> >

> > I went no contact, dealt with many emotional issues because of

> it.

> > I am now visiting my dad in the hospital every day, and as a

> > consequence, I run into nada. This is a new phase in my

> recovery.

> > I don't know how it will turn out. I take each day as it comes,

I

> > have found faith in myself that I will be able to deal with what

> > happens, and I am committed to taking care of myself.

> >

> > Sylvia

> .......

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say that, my daughter got me an earlier Mother's Day

present, a bracelet with a charm that says - " To thine own self be

true. " She gets so much, and she supports me.

It is tough, but so right to be true to ourselves....that is such a

part of our recovery and healing process. I wear the braclet and

remember the power behind those words.

Malinda

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " smhtrain2 "

wrote:

>

> Tori,

>

> I know even now, you are not your mother, and you will not turn out

> like her. You wouldn't be here if you were like her.

>

> Yes, i am courageous - sometimes I drag my feet and procrastinate

> before I muster up the courage I need! But I am courageous,

because

> i do what I need to do - regardless of how frightened I am. And at

> times I am very frightened.

>

> You quoted my motto - To thine own self be true! That was another

> hard earned lesson. How cool is that?

>

> Take care,

>

> Sylvia

>

>

> > >

> > > Malinda,

> > >

> > > First, this is the right place to come to for unloading! Does

> > your

> > > nada call every day? I hope not. That is really too much for

> you

> > > to deal with.

> > >

> > > You asked where some of us got the strength to go no contact.

I

> > > know strength was required, but for me it was also

desperation.

> I

> > > had spent a lifetime getting healthy - various types of theray

> and

> > > self help since I was 21. And then in my late 50s, on vacation

> > with

> > > nada, taking care of my daughter who was undergoing treatment

> for

> > > thyroid cancer, nada chose to go into one of her rages. It was

> > more

> > > than an 'ah ha' moment. It was a life defining moment.

> > >

> > > I saw so clearly that I had created a healthy life for myself,

> but

> > I

> > > still allowed her polution into that life. And I knew that

each

> > > time I allowed her in, I was also allowing a little of my own

> soul

> > > to be crushed, to be ignored, to die. From that point, it was

> > over

> > > a year until I wrote a letter to both nada and dishrag

> explaining

> > > that I was not going to stay in contact with them. (Dishrag

got

> a

> > > copy, because I knew not to depend on nada to share her

> letter.)

> > >

> > > I went no contact, dealt with many emotional issues because of

> > it.

> > > I am now visiting my dad in the hospital every day, and as a

> > > consequence, I run into nada. This is a new phase in my

> > recovery.

> > > I don't know how it will turn out. I take each day as it

comes,

> I

> > > have found faith in myself that I will be able to deal with

what

> > > happens, and I am committed to taking care of myself.

> > >

> > > Sylvia

> > .......

>

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say that, my daughter got me an earlier Mother's Day

present, a bracelet with a charm that says - " To thine own self be

true. " She gets so much, and she supports me.

It is tough, but so right to be true to ourselves....that is such a

part of our recovery and healing process. I wear the braclet and

remember the power behind those words.

Malinda

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " smhtrain2 "

wrote:

>

> Tori,

>

> I know even now, you are not your mother, and you will not turn out

> like her. You wouldn't be here if you were like her.

>

> Yes, i am courageous - sometimes I drag my feet and procrastinate

> before I muster up the courage I need! But I am courageous,

because

> i do what I need to do - regardless of how frightened I am. And at

> times I am very frightened.

>

> You quoted my motto - To thine own self be true! That was another

> hard earned lesson. How cool is that?

>

> Take care,

>

> Sylvia

>

>

> > >

> > > Malinda,

> > >

> > > First, this is the right place to come to for unloading! Does

> > your

> > > nada call every day? I hope not. That is really too much for

> you

> > > to deal with.

> > >

> > > You asked where some of us got the strength to go no contact.

I

> > > know strength was required, but for me it was also

desperation.

> I

> > > had spent a lifetime getting healthy - various types of theray

> and

> > > self help since I was 21. And then in my late 50s, on vacation

> > with

> > > nada, taking care of my daughter who was undergoing treatment

> for

> > > thyroid cancer, nada chose to go into one of her rages. It was

> > more

> > > than an 'ah ha' moment. It was a life defining moment.

> > >

> > > I saw so clearly that I had created a healthy life for myself,

> but

> > I

> > > still allowed her polution into that life. And I knew that

each

> > > time I allowed her in, I was also allowing a little of my own

> soul

> > > to be crushed, to be ignored, to die. From that point, it was

> > over

> > > a year until I wrote a letter to both nada and dishrag

> explaining

> > > that I was not going to stay in contact with them. (Dishrag

got

> a

> > > copy, because I knew not to depend on nada to share her

> letter.)

> > >

> > > I went no contact, dealt with many emotional issues because of

> > it.

> > > I am now visiting my dad in the hospital every day, and as a

> > > consequence, I run into nada. This is a new phase in my

> > recovery.

> > > I don't know how it will turn out. I take each day as it

comes,

> I

> > > have found faith in myself that I will be able to deal with

what

> > > happens, and I am committed to taking care of myself.

> > >

> > > Sylvia

> > .......

>

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say that, my daughter got me an earlier Mother's Day

present, a bracelet with a charm that says - " To thine own self be

true. " She gets so much, and she supports me.

It is tough, but so right to be true to ourselves....that is such a

part of our recovery and healing process. I wear the braclet and

remember the power behind those words.

Malinda

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " smhtrain2 "

wrote:

>

> Tori,

>

> I know even now, you are not your mother, and you will not turn out

> like her. You wouldn't be here if you were like her.

>

> Yes, i am courageous - sometimes I drag my feet and procrastinate

> before I muster up the courage I need! But I am courageous,

because

> i do what I need to do - regardless of how frightened I am. And at

> times I am very frightened.

>

> You quoted my motto - To thine own self be true! That was another

> hard earned lesson. How cool is that?

>

> Take care,

>

> Sylvia

>

>

> > >

> > > Malinda,

> > >

> > > First, this is the right place to come to for unloading! Does

> > your

> > > nada call every day? I hope not. That is really too much for

> you

> > > to deal with.

> > >

> > > You asked where some of us got the strength to go no contact.

I

> > > know strength was required, but for me it was also

desperation.

> I

> > > had spent a lifetime getting healthy - various types of theray

> and

> > > self help since I was 21. And then in my late 50s, on vacation

> > with

> > > nada, taking care of my daughter who was undergoing treatment

> for

> > > thyroid cancer, nada chose to go into one of her rages. It was

> > more

> > > than an 'ah ha' moment. It was a life defining moment.

> > >

> > > I saw so clearly that I had created a healthy life for myself,

> but

> > I

> > > still allowed her polution into that life. And I knew that

each

> > > time I allowed her in, I was also allowing a little of my own

> soul

> > > to be crushed, to be ignored, to die. From that point, it was

> > over

> > > a year until I wrote a letter to both nada and dishrag

> explaining

> > > that I was not going to stay in contact with them. (Dishrag

got

> a

> > > copy, because I knew not to depend on nada to share her

> letter.)

> > >

> > > I went no contact, dealt with many emotional issues because of

> > it.

> > > I am now visiting my dad in the hospital every day, and as a

> > > consequence, I run into nada. This is a new phase in my

> > recovery.

> > > I don't know how it will turn out. I take each day as it

comes,

> I

> > > have found faith in myself that I will be able to deal with

what

> > > happens, and I am committed to taking care of myself.

> > >

> > > Sylvia

> > .......

>

[Guest guest]

Tori -- I've read it, and it described not only my mother, but my

FATHER, too! I couldn't believe how incredibly accurate the

descriptions were!

The coping methods the book recommends are good. I now have them in

my head for future use -- in the even N/C or L/C turn into something

else.

At first, I thought the book was a little pricey. Now, I think it's

priceless. The insight it gave me was worth so much more than the

purchase price.

Also, I've picked the book up time and time again and re-read

passages -- different parts seem to " speak " to me as I go through

different stages of this process. So, don't think that if you've read

it once, you've necessarily absorbed it all. If you find it helpful

(and I hope you do!), keep referring to it.

-Kyla

>

> yes, Tori, I have it and read it...it really helped me more than

SWOE :-)

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Jackie,

>

> I just ordered Understanding the Borderline Mother from the

> bookstore. Have you read it? If so do you think it will help me see

> things more clearly?

>

> Tori

>

[Guest guest]

Tori -- I've read it, and it described not only my mother, but my

FATHER, too! I couldn't believe how incredibly accurate the

descriptions were!

The coping methods the book recommends are good. I now have them in

my head for future use -- in the even N/C or L/C turn into something

else.

At first, I thought the book was a little pricey. Now, I think it's

priceless. The insight it gave me was worth so much more than the

purchase price.

Also, I've picked the book up time and time again and re-read

passages -- different parts seem to " speak " to me as I go through

different stages of this process. So, don't think that if you've read

it once, you've necessarily absorbed it all. If you find it helpful

(and I hope you do!), keep referring to it.

-Kyla

>

> yes, Tori, I have it and read it...it really helped me more than

SWOE :-)

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Jackie,

>

> I just ordered Understanding the Borderline Mother from the

> bookstore. Have you read it? If so do you think it will help me see

> things more clearly?

>

> Tori

>

[Guest guest]

Tori -- I've read it, and it described not only my mother, but my

FATHER, too! I couldn't believe how incredibly accurate the

descriptions were!

The coping methods the book recommends are good. I now have them in

my head for future use -- in the even N/C or L/C turn into something

else.

At first, I thought the book was a little pricey. Now, I think it's

priceless. The insight it gave me was worth so much more than the

purchase price.

Also, I've picked the book up time and time again and re-read

passages -- different parts seem to " speak " to me as I go through

different stages of this process. So, don't think that if you've read

it once, you've necessarily absorbed it all. If you find it helpful

(and I hope you do!), keep referring to it.

-Kyla

>

> yes, Tori, I have it and read it...it really helped me more than

SWOE :-)

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Jackie,

>

> I just ordered Understanding the Borderline Mother from the

> bookstore. Have you read it? If so do you think it will help me see

> things more clearly?

>

> Tori

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I use a cell phone and I've found this can be very

convenient. My mom used to call me very early and awaken me and

very late and etc. And then all through the day. Expecting me (of

course) to be her mother and emotional support. I told her that my

seperated husband calls at night and wakes me up and so I have to

turn off the phone at night. I told my soon to be ex that my mother

calls and wakes me up so I have to turn off the phone. Both

accepted this and completely understood that I wouldn't want this

other person to bother me at a rude hour. I found that kind of

amusing that they couldn't see it in themselves. Then, I oops

didn't answer because I forgot and left my cell phone out in the

car...etc. Or, I must have been outside when they called. I act

like it was nothing...silly me. I can only accept a call or two a

day from these crazy makers or I'm just emotionally wiped out!

Haven't yet completely removed myself. But, I'm working closer

towards it.

> > >

> > > I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

> > have a

> > > job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

> > multitude of

> > > reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then

I

> > would

> > > get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call

me " ).

> > > Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

> > >

> > > It got to where she was calling me every day or every other

day

> > and no

> > > amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's

new? "

> > I'd

> > > say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2

days? "

> > And

> > > EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I

didn't

> > call

> > > her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> > > sometimes weepy, other times icy.

> > >

> > > Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

> > violently; I

> > > was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of

me.

> > I

> > > screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I

was

> > > neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did

that

> > > bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath

over

> > > nothing!

> > >

> > > I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you

every

> > > day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want

that

> > and

> > > you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> > > childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

> > trips,

> > > the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

> > really

> > > mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and

you

> > will

> > > treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an

adult,

> > it is

> > > MY decision what I do with my time.

> > >

> > > Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and

not " deserving

> > this "

> > > and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she

always

> > was to

> > > me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so

I

> > said

> > > " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my

childhood) "

> > > and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh

so

> > well

> > > " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> > > apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

> > >

> > > So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened

way to

> > > stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the

time.

> > We

> > > have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably

when

> > we

> > > do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel

so

> > FREE

> > > now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might

say no

> > > more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a

month

> > > and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt

up

> > > again, I am ready to change my phone number.

> > >

> > > I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was

all I

> > ever

> > > knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

> > said, " How

> > > often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month

and

> > I

> > > usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> > > married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I use a cell phone and I've found this can be very

convenient. My mom used to call me very early and awaken me and

very late and etc. And then all through the day. Expecting me (of

course) to be her mother and emotional support. I told her that my

seperated husband calls at night and wakes me up and so I have to

turn off the phone at night. I told my soon to be ex that my mother

calls and wakes me up so I have to turn off the phone. Both

accepted this and completely understood that I wouldn't want this

other person to bother me at a rude hour. I found that kind of

amusing that they couldn't see it in themselves. Then, I oops

didn't answer because I forgot and left my cell phone out in the

car...etc. Or, I must have been outside when they called. I act

like it was nothing...silly me. I can only accept a call or two a

day from these crazy makers or I'm just emotionally wiped out!

Haven't yet completely removed myself. But, I'm working closer

towards it.

> > >

> > > I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

> > have a

> > > job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

> > multitude of

> > > reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then

I

> > would

> > > get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call

me " ).

> > > Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

> > >

> > > It got to where she was calling me every day or every other

day

> > and no

> > > amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's

new? "

> > I'd

> > > say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2

days? "

> > And

> > > EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I

didn't

> > call

> > > her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> > > sometimes weepy, other times icy.

> > >

> > > Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

> > violently; I

> > > was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of

me.

> > I

> > > screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I

was

> > > neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did

that

> > > bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath

over

> > > nothing!

> > >

> > > I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you

every

> > > day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want

that

> > and

> > > you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> > > childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

> > trips,

> > > the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

> > really

> > > mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and

you

> > will

> > > treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an

adult,

> > it is

> > > MY decision what I do with my time.

> > >

> > > Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and

not " deserving

> > this "

> > > and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she

always

> > was to

> > > me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so

I

> > said

> > > " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my

childhood) "

> > > and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh

so

> > well

> > > " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> > > apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

> > >

> > > So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened

way to

> > > stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the

time.

> > We

> > > have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably

when

> > we

> > > do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel

so

> > FREE

> > > now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might

say no

> > > more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a

month

> > > and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt

up

> > > again, I am ready to change my phone number.

> > >

> > > I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was

all I

> > ever

> > > knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

> > said, " How

> > > often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month

and

> > I

> > > usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> > > married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

> > >

> >

>