Re: The defining moment- limited and or no contact

[Guest guest]

I'll tell you what my therapist (and countless others) told me:

Don't be a willing audience. Say there's someone at the

door. " Gotta run " -- don't explain why. Just suddenly have to go.

YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.

If you're sitting and listening to her go on and on and on, you're a

WILLING listener! How is she supposed to get the message that you

DON'T want to sit and listen to her negativity? You have to SHOW

her. Sitting and listening is giving her the message that you DO

want to hear it.

Do it enough times and she'll get the message! Keep doing it! Keep

saying there's someone at the door! Keep saying " Gotta

run! " ....Make stuff up!!! Keep saying it! Make a policy that

you're not going to be the sponge that soaks that crap up --

benefiting her and hurting you -- anymore!! Then, ENFORCE it.

Again: When you hear it starting up again on her end of the line,

get yourself OFF THE PHONE. You don't owe explanations. The phone

is paid for by you. It is for YOUR convenience -- not to be used by

the rest of the world as a conduit to intrude upon your life and

your emotional well-being!

Your time is YOURS. You are the gatekeeper. It's up to you to slam

it shut for unwanted intrusions.

-Kyla

>

> I am going to say upfront I am sorry for unloading and oh yes, I

am

> looking for advice.

>

> I had a long day, and like clock work my nada calls to talk about

> nothing. That nothing consistents of her degrading comments about

her

> co-workers, customers and family members, including fada. Nada

always

> has who her she told off today story too. She will tell me how

hard she

> has worked all day and how difficult it is to get all her work

done.

> Then she will want to know my day and what is new, how much work

have I

> done, and when we will I be seeing her again, and oh yes, always a

good

> daughter story and how this daughter is taking care of her parents.

>

> It is like a brainwashing session, with a ton of negative energy,

and

> intense judgemental words.Combined with me putting up my armor to

> diffuse the backlash of what should be a simple conversation. I

wonder

> sometimes how this all got so out of control. How I still get

hooked

> into my role of the dutiful daughter listening to rantings of her

> mother.

>

> I have made boundaries, but I see not nearly enough. Those of you

had

> the courage to go to nc or lc what was your defining moment to do

this,

> and where did you get the strength to make this life change?

>

> I so appreciate anything....I am so tired of my relationship with

my

> nada, it is draining and hurting me.

>

> Thanks,

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

I'll tell you what my therapist (and countless others) told me:

Don't be a willing audience. Say there's someone at the

door. " Gotta run " -- don't explain why. Just suddenly have to go.

YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.

If you're sitting and listening to her go on and on and on, you're a

WILLING listener! How is she supposed to get the message that you

DON'T want to sit and listen to her negativity? You have to SHOW

her. Sitting and listening is giving her the message that you DO

want to hear it.

Do it enough times and she'll get the message! Keep doing it! Keep

saying there's someone at the door! Keep saying " Gotta

run! " ....Make stuff up!!! Keep saying it! Make a policy that

you're not going to be the sponge that soaks that crap up --

benefiting her and hurting you -- anymore!! Then, ENFORCE it.

Again: When you hear it starting up again on her end of the line,

get yourself OFF THE PHONE. You don't owe explanations. The phone

is paid for by you. It is for YOUR convenience -- not to be used by

the rest of the world as a conduit to intrude upon your life and

your emotional well-being!

Your time is YOURS. You are the gatekeeper. It's up to you to slam

it shut for unwanted intrusions.

-Kyla

>

> I am going to say upfront I am sorry for unloading and oh yes, I

am

> looking for advice.

>

> I had a long day, and like clock work my nada calls to talk about

> nothing. That nothing consistents of her degrading comments about

her

> co-workers, customers and family members, including fada. Nada

always

> has who her she told off today story too. She will tell me how

hard she

> has worked all day and how difficult it is to get all her work

done.

> Then she will want to know my day and what is new, how much work

have I

> done, and when we will I be seeing her again, and oh yes, always a

good

> daughter story and how this daughter is taking care of her parents.

>

> It is like a brainwashing session, with a ton of negative energy,

and

> intense judgemental words.Combined with me putting up my armor to

> diffuse the backlash of what should be a simple conversation. I

wonder

> sometimes how this all got so out of control. How I still get

hooked

> into my role of the dutiful daughter listening to rantings of her

> mother.

>

> I have made boundaries, but I see not nearly enough. Those of you

had

> the courage to go to nc or lc what was your defining moment to do

this,

> and where did you get the strength to make this life change?

>

> I so appreciate anything....I am so tired of my relationship with

my

> nada, it is draining and hurting me.

>

> Thanks,

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't have a

job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the multitude of

reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I would

get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day and no

amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? " I'd

say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? " And

EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't call

her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

sometimes weepy, other times icy.

Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking violently; I

was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me. I

screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

nothing!

I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that and

you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt trips,

the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get really

mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you will

treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult, it is

MY decision what I do with my time.

Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving this "

and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always was to

me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I said

" what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so well

" How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time. We

have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when we

do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so FREE

now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

again, I am ready to change my phone number.

I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I ever

knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I said, " How

often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and I

usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

[Guest guest]

I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't have a

job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the multitude of

reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I would

get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day and no

amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? " I'd

say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? " And

EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't call

her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

sometimes weepy, other times icy.

Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking violently; I

was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me. I

screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

nothing!

I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that and

you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt trips,

the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get really

mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you will

treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult, it is

MY decision what I do with my time.

Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving this "

and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always was to

me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I said

" what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so well

" How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time. We

have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when we

do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so FREE

now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

again, I am ready to change my phone number.

I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I ever

knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I said, " How

often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and I

usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

[Guest guest]

I always gave to my parents 2000%. Here is what caused me to break

away: I had an episode with them where I hurt their feelings in front

of complete strangers at a restaurant. My folks made a comment during

a conversation which I found to be embarrassing. I said that I did not

like their comment (in front of these 2 strangers). This brief

insignificant moment, triggered weeks of torment and guilt. I finally

called my company's mental health hotline and the woman told me

exactly what to do. I was in robot-mode, nearly at the breaking point,

but I followed all her instructions...I wrote a letter & established

NC. THAT was my defining moment. I'll be forever grateful for the

woman on the other end of that hotline. Good luck. Defining moments

are AMAZING!! You have POWER!!!! A lot more than you realize!

>

> I am going to say upfront I am sorry for unloading and oh yes, I am

> looking for advice.

>

> I had a long day, and like clock work my nada calls to talk about

> nothing. That nothing consistents of her degrading comments about her

> co-workers, customers and family members, including fada. Nada always

> has who her she told off today story too. She will tell me how hard she

> has worked all day and how difficult it is to get all her work done.

> Then she will want to know my day and what is new, how much work have I

> done, and when we will I be seeing her again, and oh yes, always a good

> daughter story and how this daughter is taking care of her parents.

>

> It is like a brainwashing session, with a ton of negative energy, and

> intense judgemental words.Combined with me putting up my armor to

> diffuse the backlash of what should be a simple conversation. I wonder

> sometimes how this all got so out of control. How I still get hooked

> into my role of the dutiful daughter listening to rantings of her

> mother.

>

> I have made boundaries, but I see not nearly enough. Those of you had

> the courage to go to nc or lc what was your defining moment to do this,

> and where did you get the strength to make this life change?

>

> I so appreciate anything....I am so tired of my relationship with my

> nada, it is draining and hurting me.

>

> Thanks,

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

I always gave to my parents 2000%. Here is what caused me to break

away: I had an episode with them where I hurt their feelings in front

of complete strangers at a restaurant. My folks made a comment during

a conversation which I found to be embarrassing. I said that I did not

like their comment (in front of these 2 strangers). This brief

insignificant moment, triggered weeks of torment and guilt. I finally

called my company's mental health hotline and the woman told me

exactly what to do. I was in robot-mode, nearly at the breaking point,

but I followed all her instructions...I wrote a letter & established

NC. THAT was my defining moment. I'll be forever grateful for the

woman on the other end of that hotline. Good luck. Defining moments

are AMAZING!! You have POWER!!!! A lot more than you realize!

>

> I am going to say upfront I am sorry for unloading and oh yes, I am

> looking for advice.

>

> I had a long day, and like clock work my nada calls to talk about

> nothing. That nothing consistents of her degrading comments about her

> co-workers, customers and family members, including fada. Nada always

> has who her she told off today story too. She will tell me how hard she

> has worked all day and how difficult it is to get all her work done.

> Then she will want to know my day and what is new, how much work have I

> done, and when we will I be seeing her again, and oh yes, always a good

> daughter story and how this daughter is taking care of her parents.

>

> It is like a brainwashing session, with a ton of negative energy, and

> intense judgemental words.Combined with me putting up my armor to

> diffuse the backlash of what should be a simple conversation. I wonder

> sometimes how this all got so out of control. How I still get hooked

> into my role of the dutiful daughter listening to rantings of her

> mother.

>

> I have made boundaries, but I see not nearly enough. Those of you had

> the courage to go to nc or lc what was your defining moment to do this,

> and where did you get the strength to make this life change?

>

> I so appreciate anything....I am so tired of my relationship with my

> nada, it is draining and hurting me.

>

> Thanks,

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

good for you. Any time you stand up for yourself is a win for yourself !!

I think you did a great job !! It's very difficult to confront

them..especially knowing what they've done in the past...I think nadas

expect more from their daughters than they do from their sons...at least my

nada is this way...

Jackie

I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I ever

knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I said, " How

often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and I

usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

[Guest guest]

good for you. Any time you stand up for yourself is a win for yourself !!

I think you did a great job !! It's very difficult to confront

them..especially knowing what they've done in the past...I think nadas

expect more from their daughters than they do from their sons...at least my

nada is this way...

Jackie

I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I ever

knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I said, " How

often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and I

usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

[Guest guest]

ABSOLUTELY! As an adult, we are no longer powerless, and in fact, the

power has shifted. Problem is, you don't know it yet and neither does

your mom...until you exercise it.

>

> I always gave to my parents 2000%. Here is what caused me to break

> away: I had an episode with them where I hurt their feelings in front

> of complete strangers at a restaurant. My folks made a comment during

> a conversation which I found to be embarrassing. I said that I did not

> like their comment (in front of these 2 strangers). This brief

> insignificant moment, triggered weeks of torment and guilt. I finally

> called my company's mental health hotline and the woman told me

> exactly what to do. I was in robot-mode, nearly at the breaking point,

> but I followed all her instructions...I wrote a letter & established

> NC. THAT was my defining moment. I'll be forever grateful for the

> woman on the other end of that hotline. Good luck. Defining moments

> are AMAZING!! You have POWER!!!! A lot more than you realize!

[Guest guest]

ABSOLUTELY! As an adult, we are no longer powerless, and in fact, the

power has shifted. Problem is, you don't know it yet and neither does

your mom...until you exercise it.

>

> I always gave to my parents 2000%. Here is what caused me to break

> away: I had an episode with them where I hurt their feelings in front

> of complete strangers at a restaurant. My folks made a comment during

> a conversation which I found to be embarrassing. I said that I did not

> like their comment (in front of these 2 strangers). This brief

> insignificant moment, triggered weeks of torment and guilt. I finally

> called my company's mental health hotline and the woman told me

> exactly what to do. I was in robot-mode, nearly at the breaking point,

> but I followed all her instructions...I wrote a letter & established

> NC. THAT was my defining moment. I'll be forever grateful for the

> woman on the other end of that hotline. Good luck. Defining moments

> are AMAZING!! You have POWER!!!! A lot more than you realize!

[Guest guest]

Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally torturing

herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems, many

resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be different as

long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

>

> good for you. Any time you stand up for yourself is a win for

yourself !!

> I think you did a great job !! It's very difficult to confront

> them..especially knowing what they've done in the past...I think nadas

> expect more from their daughters than they do from their sons...at

least my

> nada is this way...

>

> Jackie

>

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally torturing

herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems, many

resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be different as

long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

>

> good for you. Any time you stand up for yourself is a win for

yourself !!

> I think you did a great job !! It's very difficult to confront

> them..especially knowing what they've done in the past...I think nadas

> expect more from their daughters than they do from their sons...at

least my

> nada is this way...

>

> Jackie

>

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she didn't ask to be

BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves) but it's NOT

your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it either...you have

your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

Jackie

Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally torturing

herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems, many

resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be different as

long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

[Guest guest]

Hi all, I wish that I could make the break...I just had my second

phone call today from my mother. In the first I told her that we

had asked her not to send the box of gifts and that we were donating

it to charity. Her response was that I must be feeling unwell,

despite my assurances to the contrary. She keeps hoping that I'll

come down with postnatal depression and come racing back home.

In the second phone call, she called with her steely, angry voice

and told me that I needed to come home to visit. I said we weren't

prepared to do that now. She became quite teary and told me that I

had a wonderful family, a wonderful home, an idyllic childhood, and

I had turned my back on all of them because of some " fantasies in my

mind " . She accused me of having some crazy psychoanalyst having

gotten her claws into me and having convinced me that all my

problems stemmed from my mother. She told me that she and my father

would not live forever, and I would just keep up this distance until

one day I got a phone call and found out they were dead. I would

never be happy until I destroyed this family that had given so much

to me. Oh, i tried to say nothing committal, said we absolutely

could not visit, lots of mm-hmms, and told her that i would not talk

to her when she was like this, she said that meant i would never

talk to her, I never had time for her (this is true). I said that

we were going to unplug the phone and that I would not continue the

conversation, but feel like it went on far too long...

I feel really crummy. I feel like i've figured out recently that it

is these waif tendencies that really upset me, leaving me feel like

her life is ruined and I am entirely responsible. Words of

comfort/advice very welcome!!

Sara

>

> you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she didn't

ask to be

> BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves)

but it's NOT

> your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

either...you have

> your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

torturing

> herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems,

many

> resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

> mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be different

as

> long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

>

[Guest guest]

This is how it was for so many my of the phone calls with nada

before... the fighting over my total annoyance with her for the

selfish and negative comments should would make. Yes, I would just

hang up and say this is not healthy for either of us. Days or weeks

would pass and then we would talk again. Yes, I would tell my family

to say was out, sleeping...or just not answer the phone. I was

pretty consistent with my boundaries.

So I felt like in some ways nada and I had made some improvements.

We rarely fight or have the phone encounters that you described in

this post. I also limit my time and say how could much have changed

or happened since we just talked. ( it felt very validating to hear

you say those things and to know I use those strategies)

Maybe though it is just the sheer negativity that is getting to me,

and nada hanging on to me, which I continue to allow that is wearing

me down. I am never under the illusion she has changed, I know what

has changed and what must continue to change is what I will put up

with from her. I guess in some way, I was looking in your stories of

nc or lc to see what brought you to that defining moment.

It may sound crazy....but I am never quite sure what means enough?

Truly I have put up with so much with the nada and my husband...that

my mind doesn't get enough very well.

I also wouldn't mind the phone call, if it was healthy and normal. I

guess since the tone of the conversation is not angry anymore, I

guess I thought that meant better. It didn't...another illusion on

my part. The FOG is tricky and yet it is there.

Thank you for your input.... and insights,

Malinda

>

> I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

have a

> job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

multitude of

> reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I

would

> get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

> Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

>

> It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day

and no

> amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? "

I'd

> say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? "

And

> EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't

call

> her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> sometimes weepy, other times icy.

>

> Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

violently; I

> was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me.

I

> screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

> neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

> bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

> nothing!

>

> I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

> day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that

and

> you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

trips,

> the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

really

> mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you

will

> treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult,

it is

> MY decision what I do with my time.

>

> Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving

this "

> and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always

was to

> me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I

said

> " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

> and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so

well

> " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

>

> So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

> stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time.

We

> have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when

we

> do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so

FREE

> now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

> more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

> and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

> again, I am ready to change my phone number.

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I

ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and

I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

This is how it was for so many my of the phone calls with nada

before... the fighting over my total annoyance with her for the

selfish and negative comments should would make. Yes, I would just

hang up and say this is not healthy for either of us. Days or weeks

would pass and then we would talk again. Yes, I would tell my family

to say was out, sleeping...or just not answer the phone. I was

pretty consistent with my boundaries.

So I felt like in some ways nada and I had made some improvements.

We rarely fight or have the phone encounters that you described in

this post. I also limit my time and say how could much have changed

or happened since we just talked. ( it felt very validating to hear

you say those things and to know I use those strategies)

Maybe though it is just the sheer negativity that is getting to me,

and nada hanging on to me, which I continue to allow that is wearing

me down. I am never under the illusion she has changed, I know what

has changed and what must continue to change is what I will put up

with from her. I guess in some way, I was looking in your stories of

nc or lc to see what brought you to that defining moment.

It may sound crazy....but I am never quite sure what means enough?

Truly I have put up with so much with the nada and my husband...that

my mind doesn't get enough very well.

I also wouldn't mind the phone call, if it was healthy and normal. I

guess since the tone of the conversation is not angry anymore, I

guess I thought that meant better. It didn't...another illusion on

my part. The FOG is tricky and yet it is there.

Thank you for your input.... and insights,

Malinda

>

> I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

have a

> job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

multitude of

> reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I

would

> get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

> Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

>

> It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day

and no

> amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? "

I'd

> say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? "

And

> EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't

call

> her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> sometimes weepy, other times icy.

>

> Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

violently; I

> was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me.

I

> screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

> neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

> bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

> nothing!

>

> I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

> day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that

and

> you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

trips,

> the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

really

> mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you

will

> treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult,

it is

> MY decision what I do with my time.

>

> Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving

this "

> and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always

was to

> me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I

said

> " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

> and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so

well

> " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

>

> So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

> stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time.

We

> have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when

we

> do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so

FREE

> now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

> more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

> and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

> again, I am ready to change my phone number.

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I

ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and

I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

This is how it was for so many my of the phone calls with nada

before... the fighting over my total annoyance with her for the

selfish and negative comments should would make. Yes, I would just

hang up and say this is not healthy for either of us. Days or weeks

would pass and then we would talk again. Yes, I would tell my family

to say was out, sleeping...or just not answer the phone. I was

pretty consistent with my boundaries.

So I felt like in some ways nada and I had made some improvements.

We rarely fight or have the phone encounters that you described in

this post. I also limit my time and say how could much have changed

or happened since we just talked. ( it felt very validating to hear

you say those things and to know I use those strategies)

Maybe though it is just the sheer negativity that is getting to me,

and nada hanging on to me, which I continue to allow that is wearing

me down. I am never under the illusion she has changed, I know what

has changed and what must continue to change is what I will put up

with from her. I guess in some way, I was looking in your stories of

nc or lc to see what brought you to that defining moment.

It may sound crazy....but I am never quite sure what means enough?

Truly I have put up with so much with the nada and my husband...that

my mind doesn't get enough very well.

I also wouldn't mind the phone call, if it was healthy and normal. I

guess since the tone of the conversation is not angry anymore, I

guess I thought that meant better. It didn't...another illusion on

my part. The FOG is tricky and yet it is there.

Thank you for your input.... and insights,

Malinda

>

> I could have written your story, except that my mother doesn't

have a

> job, so she has all day to sit around and think about the

multitude of

> reasons why I might have taken 2 days to call her back. Then I

would

> get the guilt trips ( " oh, how nice of you to finally call me " ).

> Nothing was ever enough. She wasn't happy and I was miserable.

>

> It got to where she was calling me every day or every other day

and no

> amount of hint-dropping would make a difference. " What's new? "

I'd

> say, " Nothing. It's been 2 days. What could be new in 2 days? "

And

> EVERY SINGLE time I talked to her I got a complaint that I didn't

call

> her sooner, don't come over enough, that she feels neglected,

> sometimes weepy, other times icy.

>

> Finally, exactly two weeks ago, I LOST IT. I was shaking

violently; I

> was in fight or flight mode. She was sucking the life out of me.

I

> screamed " You're smothering me. " She started by crying that I was

> neglecting her and that she " doesn't deserve this " and boy did that

> bring back childhood memories of *me* not deserving her wrath over

> nothing!

>

> I just kept saying over and over " I don't want to talk to you every

> day. I understand you want us to be closer, but I don't want that

and

> you can't make me. " Then she asked why and I didn't mention my

> childhood, but I did say the telling me what to do, the guilt

trips,

> the pushiness, telling me I'm wrong. Then she started to get

really

> mad, and went from crying to saying " I am your GD mother and you

will

> treat me with respect. " And I stood firm and said as an adult,

it is

> MY decision what I do with my time.

>

> Then she kept crying about feeling neglected and not " deserving

this "

> and I was just so blown away thinking about how mean she always

was to

> me and how I just took it and learned to live with it and so I

said

> " what about __________??? Did I deserve that? (from my childhood) "

> and she said, in her most I hate you voice that I remember oh so

well

> " How GD old ARE you? " meaning get over it, with never, ever an

> apology and so I hung up and unplugged the phone.

>

> So that's my story. May not have been the most enlightened way to

> stand up for myself, but it was the best I could do at the time.

We

> have not spoken since and I am DETERMINED that if/or probably when

we

> do, things will be different, will be on MY terms. And I feel so

FREE

> now. I'm thinking after I have several months off, i might say no

> more phone calls and we can meet with my dad for lunch once a month

> and that is it. Take it or leave it. And if the calls startt up

> again, I am ready to change my phone number.

>

> I DIDN'T REALIZE how sick she was making me, because it was all I

ever

> knew. And what about my brother??? Just before I blew I

said, " How

> often does she call YOU? " And he said " Oh, about once a month and

I

> usually don't answer. " I think she thinks that since I am not

> married, I am obligated to be her best friend.

>

[Guest guest]

Sara,

When I started this post I didn't realize how many of our BP

parents use a phone call as another boundary breaker and a way to

manipulate us. Thank goodness my mother doesn't know how to email me.

Oh my dear, you are not alone. My nada has said over and over

these same destructive words to me. It is exhausting and draining. I

feel like I use the great advice given to me in these postings and

so do you. Don't wish you were made out of tefelon and the comments

made to us would just bounce off of us, but they don't.

They hurt us to the core and they don't stop. My mother does

the waif thing, actually when she is being the witch and or queen I

don't feel guilty getting angry at her. The waif is so low, playing

on your guilt. I know this is hard, and you deserve better, and so

do I. Try to do something for you. I am sure what that means for

you, but give yourself something positive back. Even if is a bubble

bath and a good book. Something that brings a smile to you. I wish

had the wisdom and power to make it all go away for all of us....but

I don't.

I know you are good and kind person and you must not forget that.

We are not who they say we are.

You are responsible for your life and not hers. We both need

to chip away at this huge and unfair burden our nadas have layed on

are already tired shoulders.

Take of yourself,

Malinda

> >

> > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

didn't

> ask to be

> > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves)

> but it's NOT

> > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> either...you have

> > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> torturing

> > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems,

> many

> > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

> > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

different

> as

> > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sara,

When I started this post I didn't realize how many of our BP

parents use a phone call as another boundary breaker and a way to

manipulate us. Thank goodness my mother doesn't know how to email me.

Oh my dear, you are not alone. My nada has said over and over

these same destructive words to me. It is exhausting and draining. I

feel like I use the great advice given to me in these postings and

so do you. Don't wish you were made out of tefelon and the comments

made to us would just bounce off of us, but they don't.

They hurt us to the core and they don't stop. My mother does

the waif thing, actually when she is being the witch and or queen I

don't feel guilty getting angry at her. The waif is so low, playing

on your guilt. I know this is hard, and you deserve better, and so

do I. Try to do something for you. I am sure what that means for

you, but give yourself something positive back. Even if is a bubble

bath and a good book. Something that brings a smile to you. I wish

had the wisdom and power to make it all go away for all of us....but

I don't.

I know you are good and kind person and you must not forget that.

We are not who they say we are.

You are responsible for your life and not hers. We both need

to chip away at this huge and unfair burden our nadas have layed on

are already tired shoulders.

Take of yourself,

Malinda

> >

> > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

didn't

> ask to be

> > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves)

> but it's NOT

> > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> either...you have

> > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> torturing

> > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems,

> many

> > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

> > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

different

> as

> > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sara,

When I started this post I didn't realize how many of our BP

parents use a phone call as another boundary breaker and a way to

manipulate us. Thank goodness my mother doesn't know how to email me.

Oh my dear, you are not alone. My nada has said over and over

these same destructive words to me. It is exhausting and draining. I

feel like I use the great advice given to me in these postings and

so do you. Don't wish you were made out of tefelon and the comments

made to us would just bounce off of us, but they don't.

They hurt us to the core and they don't stop. My mother does

the waif thing, actually when she is being the witch and or queen I

don't feel guilty getting angry at her. The waif is so low, playing

on your guilt. I know this is hard, and you deserve better, and so

do I. Try to do something for you. I am sure what that means for

you, but give yourself something positive back. Even if is a bubble

bath and a good book. Something that brings a smile to you. I wish

had the wisdom and power to make it all go away for all of us....but

I don't.

I know you are good and kind person and you must not forget that.

We are not who they say we are.

You are responsible for your life and not hers. We both need

to chip away at this huge and unfair burden our nadas have layed on

are already tired shoulders.

Take of yourself,

Malinda

> >

> > you are exactly right...you should feel sorry for her, she

didn't

> ask to be

> > BPD ( although there are things they can do to help themselves)

> but it's NOT

> > your problem, you didn't cause this, and you can't fix it

> either...you have

> > your own life to live and your own family to raise :-)

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you! I feel badly for her, as I know she is mentally

> torturing

> > herself. But that's *not my problem*. I have my own problems,

> many

> > resulting from being ignored/yelled at/hated as a child by my own

> > mother. I realized I could not recover and learn to be

different

> as

> > long as she was puking up a steady stream of negativity on me.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

get an answering machine and stop answering the phone :-) your mother is an

adult ( she doesn't act like one, but she is by age) as are you...you are

not responsible for her happiness nor sadness...and she can't irratae/upset

you unless you allow it ( I know, it's easier said than done, I'm working on

it in myself)

Jackie

Hi all, I wish that I could make the break...I just had my second

phone call today from my mother. In the first I told her that we

had asked her not to send the box of gifts and that we were donating

it to charity. Her response was that I must be feeling unwell,

despite my assurances to the contrary. She keeps hoping that I'll

come down with postnatal depression and come racing back home.

In the second phone call, she called with her steely, angry voice

and told me that I needed to come home to visit.

[Guest guest]

get an answering machine and stop answering the phone :-) your mother is an

adult ( she doesn't act like one, but she is by age) as are you...you are

not responsible for her happiness nor sadness...and she can't irratae/upset

you unless you allow it ( I know, it's easier said than done, I'm working on

it in myself)

Jackie

Hi all, I wish that I could make the break...I just had my second

phone call today from my mother. In the first I told her that we

had asked her not to send the box of gifts and that we were donating

it to charity. Her response was that I must be feeling unwell,

despite my assurances to the contrary. She keeps hoping that I'll

come down with postnatal depression and come racing back home.

In the second phone call, she called with her steely, angry voice

and told me that I needed to come home to visit.

[Guest guest]

just what I said in the last post I made...get an answering machine and stop

answering the phone...she will never get better without help from

professionals...and we all have to face that fact :-( and stop listing to

our inner little girls who still want a mother/daughter relationship...it

will not happen, not without a price, and that's our own mental health...(

sorry for the tough love)

Jackie

I also wouldn't mind the phone call, if it was healthy and normal. I

guess since the tone of the conversation is not angry anymore, I

guess I thought that meant better. It didn't...another illusion on

my part. The FOG is tricky and yet it is there.

Thank you for your input.... and insights,

Malinda

[Guest guest]

just what I said in the last post I made...get an answering machine and stop

answering the phone...she will never get better without help from

professionals...and we all have to face that fact :-( and stop listing to

our inner little girls who still want a mother/daughter relationship...it

will not happen, not without a price, and that's our own mental health...(

sorry for the tough love)

Jackie

I also wouldn't mind the phone call, if it was healthy and normal. I

guess since the tone of the conversation is not angry anymore, I

guess I thought that meant better. It didn't...another illusion on

my part. The FOG is tricky and yet it is there.

Thank you for your input.... and insights,

Malinda

[Guest guest]

just what I said in the last post I made...get an answering machine and stop

answering the phone...she will never get better without help from

professionals...and we all have to face that fact :-( and stop listing to

our inner little girls who still want a mother/daughter relationship...it

will not happen, not without a price, and that's our own mental health...(

sorry for the tough love)

Jackie

I also wouldn't mind the phone call, if it was healthy and normal. I

guess since the tone of the conversation is not angry anymore, I

guess I thought that meant better. It didn't...another illusion on

my part. The FOG is tricky and yet it is there.

Thank you for your input.... and insights,

Malinda