Re: oddball again

[Guest guest]

Most people do not understand that avoidance does not necessarily mean

dislike. I can avoid because I dislike someone, or I can avoid because

I dislike the situation.

Tom

Administrator

My mum commented that I do not like people the other day. Later I

explained to her I do not dislike all people - I dislike crowds, but

can generally deal with people one to one or small groups and of

course like you have written below it all depends on the person/s.

My mum's comment seemed to stem from the fact when I am in busy town

centre I will automatically veer towards alleys and areas that are

devoid of the crush of people - she doesn't understand this and seems

to relate this to me disliking people. I dislike crowded busy walk

ways, where people seem to aim at me and walk into me and basically I

am on sensory overload in such places.

[Guest guest]

It's an absence of " Theory of Mind. " Theory of mind, for those who do

not know, is a psychological construct where everyone is on the same

page psychologically. Non Aspies don't have it when it pertains to

Aspies, even though they may think they do.

Your mother moves things around because SHE likes the way she

arranges things, so she falsely figures since naturally you think as

she does, then you will like the way she arranges things.

Tom

Administrator

" She tells me in response to quit freaking out about stuff. "

Oh gosh, I get that from my mum all the time :-( because my mum

doesn't mind certain things she can't relate to the fact that some

things are painful to me. The way I have certain things positioned in

my house is usually very good reasons and yet my mum just loves

moving things around and always has :-(

[Guest guest]

Tell them when you set up the occasion what time they will need to

leave. If they drop by unexpectedly, tell them you only have _______

(insert amount of time here____) to spend with them.

Tom

Administrator

" I am wondering how to get them to leave without appearing impolite? "

[Guest guest]

Tell them when you set up the occasion what time they will need to

leave. If they drop by unexpectedly, tell them you only have _______

(insert amount of time here____) to spend with them.

Tom

Administrator

" I am wondering how to get them to leave without appearing impolite? "

[Guest guest]

Tell them when you set up the occasion what time they will need to

leave. If they drop by unexpectedly, tell them you only have _______

(insert amount of time here____) to spend with them.

Tom

Administrator

" I am wondering how to get them to leave without appearing impolite? "

[Guest guest]

" It is frustrating trying to explain Aspergers to people and after

their intitial firing of questions they do tend to turn a deaf ear -

to me it is almost like many didn't really want to know and were just

being socially polite. "

Sometimes they ARE only being socially polite. Other times they just

think they have it all figured out and don't believe they need to

have the details. Not to get sardonic or anything, but I think some

people do not want to be confused with details because their minds

can only retain so many. This has been proven through various

studies. Something like 75% or more of the facts that most students

hear are forgotten at the end of the day.

For some people, their minds are like flower sifters with only the

big chunks being retained and everything else going through the

sifter. I think for Aspies, the opposite is true, which is why we

tend to suffer sensory overload, and processing difficulties

sometimes.

" It seems many that ask just want 'soundbites' and any further

discussion seems to not be on their personal agenda (back to shallow,

surface people). "

Yep.

" I find it hard to describe it in a way that non aspies can understand

and find myself getting tripped up by them when I am trying to

explain - they'll say things like 'oh everyone is like that' or ask

me to explain something only to go onto a completely different topic

unrelated when I try to explain. "

I do not think there is any real way to make them understand unless

they lived our lives. It IS frustrating. I can easily understand how

THEY think although I am baffled as to why they enjoy being that way.

But then, they are probably baffled as to why we enjoy being the way

we are.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" It is frustrating trying to explain Aspergers to people and after

their intitial firing of questions they do tend to turn a deaf ear -

to me it is almost like many didn't really want to know and were just

being socially polite. "

Sometimes they ARE only being socially polite. Other times they just

think they have it all figured out and don't believe they need to

have the details. Not to get sardonic or anything, but I think some

people do not want to be confused with details because their minds

can only retain so many. This has been proven through various

studies. Something like 75% or more of the facts that most students

hear are forgotten at the end of the day.

For some people, their minds are like flower sifters with only the

big chunks being retained and everything else going through the

sifter. I think for Aspies, the opposite is true, which is why we

tend to suffer sensory overload, and processing difficulties

sometimes.

" It seems many that ask just want 'soundbites' and any further

discussion seems to not be on their personal agenda (back to shallow,

surface people). "

Yep.

" I find it hard to describe it in a way that non aspies can understand

and find myself getting tripped up by them when I am trying to

explain - they'll say things like 'oh everyone is like that' or ask

me to explain something only to go onto a completely different topic

unrelated when I try to explain. "

I do not think there is any real way to make them understand unless

they lived our lives. It IS frustrating. I can easily understand how

THEY think although I am baffled as to why they enjoy being that way.

But then, they are probably baffled as to why we enjoy being the way

we are.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" It is frustrating trying to explain Aspergers to people and after

their intitial firing of questions they do tend to turn a deaf ear -

to me it is almost like many didn't really want to know and were just

being socially polite. "

Sometimes they ARE only being socially polite. Other times they just

think they have it all figured out and don't believe they need to

have the details. Not to get sardonic or anything, but I think some

people do not want to be confused with details because their minds

can only retain so many. This has been proven through various

studies. Something like 75% or more of the facts that most students

hear are forgotten at the end of the day.

For some people, their minds are like flower sifters with only the

big chunks being retained and everything else going through the

sifter. I think for Aspies, the opposite is true, which is why we

tend to suffer sensory overload, and processing difficulties

sometimes.

" It seems many that ask just want 'soundbites' and any further

discussion seems to not be on their personal agenda (back to shallow,

surface people). "

Yep.

" I find it hard to describe it in a way that non aspies can understand

and find myself getting tripped up by them when I am trying to

explain - they'll say things like 'oh everyone is like that' or ask

me to explain something only to go onto a completely different topic

unrelated when I try to explain. "

I do not think there is any real way to make them understand unless

they lived our lives. It IS frustrating. I can easily understand how

THEY think although I am baffled as to why they enjoy being that way.

But then, they are probably baffled as to why we enjoy being the way

we are.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" A neurotypical person being rude and arrogant has a very different look

and feel than an autistic person acting in a way that makes a

nuerotypical label them rude and arrogant. I have no problem with

experiencing the autistic person's behavior that the non-autistic

labelled so negatively. But I have a hard time tolerating the

non-autistic person behaving in a rude or arrogant way. Usually the

non-autistics behavior is based on an attempt to make themselves look

good or feel good or achieve power or prestige or something like that.

And the autistic person's behavior that got labelled negatively is

usually pretty innocent. This is based on my experiences and what I

have learned. "

One thing to remember though is that if an autistic person wants to

manipulate others, they will go about it in a very crafty way while

making themselves look good. The owner of Aspergian Island had to ban

her entire moderating staff because they allegedly stole the board away

from her right under her nose. The folks at AFF have been alleged to

badger people who do not agree with their idea that autistics should be

recognized by the UN as a minority. If autistics were recognized as

such, any parent that sought treatment for an autistic person against

their could be accused, tried, and convicted of a hate crime. And the

head of Aspergian Island also runs a fanfiction BDSM site. WrongPlanet

is in the middle of a lawsuit right now because one of their members

threatened togo on a shooting spree and then kill himself and actually

DID, and the moderators at WP, according to the suit, did not do enough

to inform the authorities or prevent the killings. Yet people love

these four sites and trash me for throwing out trolls and whatnot.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" A neurotypical person being rude and arrogant has a very different look

and feel than an autistic person acting in a way that makes a

nuerotypical label them rude and arrogant. I have no problem with

experiencing the autistic person's behavior that the non-autistic

labelled so negatively. But I have a hard time tolerating the

non-autistic person behaving in a rude or arrogant way. Usually the

non-autistics behavior is based on an attempt to make themselves look

good or feel good or achieve power or prestige or something like that.

And the autistic person's behavior that got labelled negatively is

usually pretty innocent. This is based on my experiences and what I

have learned. "

One thing to remember though is that if an autistic person wants to

manipulate others, they will go about it in a very crafty way while

making themselves look good. The owner of Aspergian Island had to ban

her entire moderating staff because they allegedly stole the board away

from her right under her nose. The folks at AFF have been alleged to

badger people who do not agree with their idea that autistics should be

recognized by the UN as a minority. If autistics were recognized as

such, any parent that sought treatment for an autistic person against

their could be accused, tried, and convicted of a hate crime. And the

head of Aspergian Island also runs a fanfiction BDSM site. WrongPlanet

is in the middle of a lawsuit right now because one of their members

threatened togo on a shooting spree and then kill himself and actually

DID, and the moderators at WP, according to the suit, did not do enough

to inform the authorities or prevent the killings. Yet people love

these four sites and trash me for throwing out trolls and whatnot.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote:

Everyone seems to think I couldn't possibly be Aspie either because I

don't have unusual behaviors and I'm so very social. Depending on the

person I'm with and the situation, I can do eye contact without much

problem.

Things other people notice the most about me are that I sometimes seem

spacey and that I am very sensitive. And I like my things a particular

way and hate it when people touch or move my things. And changes are

really hard for me to adjust to, I like my familiar routine, although

I

do like some variety also. And I need the people in my life to be

reliable and consistent or else it really throws me off.

I get told the same thing for the same reasons. I can talk to

strangers at an AS convention because I feel like the topic of

conversation is one I am compotent in. But I am not so apt to go to

the mall unless I HAVE to. I would rather chew my arm off than go to

the Doctor. You are not an oddball. I admit I am just shy of a

mensa rating. But it doesn't measure every type of intelligence as

you stated. so as with other are am proficiant in certain areas and

will walk into a wall in others

[Guest guest]

wrote:

Everyone seems to think I couldn't possibly be Aspie either because I

don't have unusual behaviors and I'm so very social. Depending on the

person I'm with and the situation, I can do eye contact without much

problem.

Things other people notice the most about me are that I sometimes seem

spacey and that I am very sensitive. And I like my things a particular

way and hate it when people touch or move my things. And changes are

really hard for me to adjust to, I like my familiar routine, although

I

do like some variety also. And I need the people in my life to be

reliable and consistent or else it really throws me off.

I get told the same thing for the same reasons. I can talk to

strangers at an AS convention because I feel like the topic of

conversation is one I am compotent in. But I am not so apt to go to

the mall unless I HAVE to. I would rather chew my arm off than go to

the Doctor. You are not an oddball. I admit I am just shy of a

mensa rating. But it doesn't measure every type of intelligence as

you stated. so as with other are am proficiant in certain areas and

will walk into a wall in others

[Guest guest]

>

> We can keep telling them for ever it's an inbuilt condition, yet

still

> they will look for ways to change us. There is a standard way to be.

> This is the instinctive reaction all differences receive.

>

I frequently have to explain my logic, it follows a linear path and

usually when I am done I have converted the listener. But like the

example of times tables. Who wants to do that all day. TIRED mimi

[Guest guest]

>

> We can keep telling them for ever it's an inbuilt condition, yet

still

> they will look for ways to change us. There is a standard way to be.

> This is the instinctive reaction all differences receive.

>

I frequently have to explain my logic, it follows a linear path and

usually when I am done I have converted the listener. But like the

example of times tables. Who wants to do that all day. TIRED mimi

[Guest guest]

> Tom wrote: " The last time I went to visit her, I looked at something

> on her coffee table and set it down. And she got up from her chair

and

> said " ! That goes HERE! " and moved it about a quarter of an

inch.

>

> " Is that your AS? " I asked.

>

> " No, " she said. " OCD. "

>

> I actually don't touch people's stuff because I don't know how they

will respond and I actually try to replace things in the exact location

of orign when I do. It is actually an extension of my own quirk to

avoid conflict. Also as we know your sister has a DX of SSD selfish

sister disorder. I have one too, but I feel yours practices

[Guest guest]

> Tom wrote: " The last time I went to visit her, I looked at something

> on her coffee table and set it down. And she got up from her chair

and

> said " ! That goes HERE! " and moved it about a quarter of an

inch.

>

> " Is that your AS? " I asked.

>

> " No, " she said. " OCD. "

>

> I actually don't touch people's stuff because I don't know how they

will respond and I actually try to replace things in the exact location

of orign when I do. It is actually an extension of my own quirk to

avoid conflict. Also as we know your sister has a DX of SSD selfish

sister disorder. I have one too, but I feel yours practices

[Guest guest]

>

i am an avid people watcher from a

> distance.i can barely tolerate people in my home to

> the point where i have left the house to get away from them.

>

I am a people watcher for me it is useful research. If i have to go to

a social setting, I watch the people and gather information. I feel

like I am watching the behavior of a colony of tribe of and in my head

it is all national geographic. better to watch than engage. In the

past I just collected data never did anything with it just collected it

for the sake of knowledge. It does help me to Map I call it this

world mapping

[Guest guest]

>

I

ended up working at a quiet gift shop for less than minimum wage. Even

that was too stressful after a while.

So I kept a strange kind of sanity by imagining other worlds where I

could fit in.

Bruce this is what many I think " decide " to do a low stress job. I

printed t-shirts. Did the art, saw no one, ordered shirts. worked

with 3 other people. did that for 7 years. i loved being alone. I

was a lab tech for a few years but I couldn't work the overnight

shift. That was the dream job but too many people during the day. too

many silly politics of pettiness in an office. It was too silly. mimi

[Guest guest]

>

> It's those who are arrogant without just cause that are annoying to

> those of us who are arrogant because we have good reason to be. ;-)

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

Oh Raven, I agree while laughing. Aspies aren't bad at joking; they

are hysterical! but the jokes are too quick witted for most to get so

they assume !Incorrectly! I might add that ASPIES don't get jokes.

Yeah we don't laugh at things that aren't funny. we get JOKES

[Guest guest]

>

> I have placed the definition of " arrogant " below.

>

in my experience is usually delivery. I love to converse with

knowledgeable people. that is usually termed " learning " Hard to do

when one doesn't want to listen. Sigh

[Guest guest]

Raven wrote: " It's those who are arrogant without just cause that are

annoying to those of us who are arrogant because we have good reason to

be. ;-) "

mimi responded: " Oh Raven, I agree while laughing. Aspies aren't bad

at joking; they are hysterical! but the jokes are too quick witted for

most to get so they assume !Incorrectly! I might add that ASPIES don't

get jokes. Yeah we don't laugh at things that aren't funny. we get

JOKES. "

Thanks, mimi. My humour is silent but deadly and yes, most often,

completely missed by those who are not AS. Aspies, however, like the

quick attack and slow decay of my jokes. :-)

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Raven wrote: " It's those who are arrogant without just cause that are

annoying to those of us who are arrogant because we have good reason to

be. ;-) "

mimi responded: " Oh Raven, I agree while laughing. Aspies aren't bad

at joking; they are hysterical! but the jokes are too quick witted for

most to get so they assume !Incorrectly! I might add that ASPIES don't

get jokes. Yeah we don't laugh at things that aren't funny. we get

JOKES. "

Thanks, mimi. My humour is silent but deadly and yes, most often,

completely missed by those who are not AS. Aspies, however, like the

quick attack and slow decay of my jokes. :-)

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I didn't know that autistic people were

capable of manipulation. I guess I've been listening to the wrong

people ... <snip> ... "

All people have the ability to manipulate if they choose to make use of

this ability.

Because those on the spectrum needs their lives to be regimented to

varying degrees, there is a corresponding need for things to be as they

need to be for those on the spectrum. When people in the environment

are inconsistent with enabling this pre-requisite or when people in the

environment are not falling within the parameters as identified by

those on the spectrum, the person on the spectrum will use various

methods to ensure the compliance occurs.

Being resourceful people, when straight forward requests are ignored or

treated inappropriately, those on the spectrum will then identify the

non-compliant person's weaknesses and play to those in order to force

compliance. That is manipulation.

Even babies can be manipulative. Have you ever truly watched how an

infant cries? A few short bursts at first and then they stop to see if

someone will provide them with what they want or need. If no one

comes, they will cry again with a few short bursts and wait again to

see if someone will meet their need or want.

If they attempt this often and still no one comes to meet their need or

want, then the all-out relentless crying begins. If they attempt this

and their needs or wants are met, then it reinforces the behaviour so

they can manipulate that person in similar fashion in the future.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I'm still learning a lot about what it

means to have Aspergers. There's a lot of information out there ...

<snip> ... "

And a lot of misinformation. Be careful what you choose to believe.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I didn't know that autistic people were

capable of manipulation. I guess I've been listening to the wrong

people ... <snip> ... "

All people have the ability to manipulate if they choose to make use of

this ability.

Because those on the spectrum needs their lives to be regimented to

varying degrees, there is a corresponding need for things to be as they

need to be for those on the spectrum. When people in the environment

are inconsistent with enabling this pre-requisite or when people in the

environment are not falling within the parameters as identified by

those on the spectrum, the person on the spectrum will use various

methods to ensure the compliance occurs.

Being resourceful people, when straight forward requests are ignored or

treated inappropriately, those on the spectrum will then identify the

non-compliant person's weaknesses and play to those in order to force

compliance. That is manipulation.

Even babies can be manipulative. Have you ever truly watched how an

infant cries? A few short bursts at first and then they stop to see if

someone will provide them with what they want or need. If no one

comes, they will cry again with a few short bursts and wait again to

see if someone will meet their need or want.

If they attempt this often and still no one comes to meet their need or

want, then the all-out relentless crying begins. If they attempt this

and their needs or wants are met, then it reinforces the behaviour so

they can manipulate that person in similar fashion in the future.

wrote: " ... <snip> ... I'm still learning a lot about what it

means to have Aspergers. There's a lot of information out there ...

<snip> ... "

And a lot of misinformation. Be careful what you choose to believe.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

" I actually don't touch people's stuff because I don't know how they

will respond and I actually try to replace things in the exact location

of orign when I do. It is actually an extension of my own quirk to

avoid conflict. Also as we know your sister has a DX of SSD selfish

sister disorder. I have one too, but I feel yours practices "

She just gets upset that I am right so often. (Notice I said " so

often. " ) SHE says " all the time. " My feeling is it is pointless to have

a conversation or do anything if you don't have the correct facts and a

good attitude to begin with.

Tom

Administrator