Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Most people do not understand that avoidance does not necessarily mean dislike. I can avoid because I dislike someone, or I can avoid because I dislike the situation. Tom Administrator My mum commented that I do not like people the other day. Later I explained to her I do not dislike all people - I dislike crowds, but can generally deal with people one to one or small groups and of course like you have written below it all depends on the person/s. My mum's comment seemed to stem from the fact when I am in busy town centre I will automatically veer towards alleys and areas that are devoid of the crush of people - she doesn't understand this and seems to relate this to me disliking people. I dislike crowded busy walk ways, where people seem to aim at me and walk into me and basically I am on sensory overload in such places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 It's an absence of " Theory of Mind. " Theory of mind, for those who do not know, is a psychological construct where everyone is on the same page psychologically. Non Aspies don't have it when it pertains to Aspies, even though they may think they do. Your mother moves things around because SHE likes the way she arranges things, so she falsely figures since naturally you think as she does, then you will like the way she arranges things. Tom Administrator " She tells me in response to quit freaking out about stuff. " Oh gosh, I get that from my mum all the time :-( because my mum doesn't mind certain things she can't relate to the fact that some things are painful to me. The way I have certain things positioned in my house is usually very good reasons and yet my mum just loves moving things around and always has :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Tell them when you set up the occasion what time they will need to leave. If they drop by unexpectedly, tell them you only have _______ (insert amount of time here____) to spend with them. Tom Administrator " I am wondering how to get them to leave without appearing impolite? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Tell them when you set up the occasion what time they will need to leave. If they drop by unexpectedly, tell them you only have _______ (insert amount of time here____) to spend with them. Tom Administrator " I am wondering how to get them to leave without appearing impolite? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Tell them when you set up the occasion what time they will need to leave. If they drop by unexpectedly, tell them you only have _______ (insert amount of time here____) to spend with them. Tom Administrator " I am wondering how to get them to leave without appearing impolite? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 " It is frustrating trying to explain Aspergers to people and after their intitial firing of questions they do tend to turn a deaf ear - to me it is almost like many didn't really want to know and were just being socially polite. " Sometimes they ARE only being socially polite. Other times they just think they have it all figured out and don't believe they need to have the details. Not to get sardonic or anything, but I think some people do not want to be confused with details because their minds can only retain so many. This has been proven through various studies. Something like 75% or more of the facts that most students hear are forgotten at the end of the day. For some people, their minds are like flower sifters with only the big chunks being retained and everything else going through the sifter. I think for Aspies, the opposite is true, which is why we tend to suffer sensory overload, and processing difficulties sometimes. " It seems many that ask just want 'soundbites' and any further discussion seems to not be on their personal agenda (back to shallow, surface people). " Yep. " I find it hard to describe it in a way that non aspies can understand and find myself getting tripped up by them when I am trying to explain - they'll say things like 'oh everyone is like that' or ask me to explain something only to go onto a completely different topic unrelated when I try to explain. " I do not think there is any real way to make them understand unless they lived our lives. It IS frustrating. I can easily understand how THEY think although I am baffled as to why they enjoy being that way. But then, they are probably baffled as to why we enjoy being the way we are. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 " It is frustrating trying to explain Aspergers to people and after their intitial firing of questions they do tend to turn a deaf ear - to me it is almost like many didn't really want to know and were just being socially polite. " Sometimes they ARE only being socially polite. Other times they just think they have it all figured out and don't believe they need to have the details. Not to get sardonic or anything, but I think some people do not want to be confused with details because their minds can only retain so many. This has been proven through various studies. Something like 75% or more of the facts that most students hear are forgotten at the end of the day. For some people, their minds are like flower sifters with only the big chunks being retained and everything else going through the sifter. I think for Aspies, the opposite is true, which is why we tend to suffer sensory overload, and processing difficulties sometimes. " It seems many that ask just want 'soundbites' and any further discussion seems to not be on their personal agenda (back to shallow, surface people). " Yep. " I find it hard to describe it in a way that non aspies can understand and find myself getting tripped up by them when I am trying to explain - they'll say things like 'oh everyone is like that' or ask me to explain something only to go onto a completely different topic unrelated when I try to explain. " I do not think there is any real way to make them understand unless they lived our lives. It IS frustrating. I can easily understand how THEY think although I am baffled as to why they enjoy being that way. But then, they are probably baffled as to why we enjoy being the way we are. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 " It is frustrating trying to explain Aspergers to people and after their intitial firing of questions they do tend to turn a deaf ear - to me it is almost like many didn't really want to know and were just being socially polite. " Sometimes they ARE only being socially polite. Other times they just think they have it all figured out and don't believe they need to have the details. Not to get sardonic or anything, but I think some people do not want to be confused with details because their minds can only retain so many. This has been proven through various studies. Something like 75% or more of the facts that most students hear are forgotten at the end of the day. For some people, their minds are like flower sifters with only the big chunks being retained and everything else going through the sifter. I think for Aspies, the opposite is true, which is why we tend to suffer sensory overload, and processing difficulties sometimes. " It seems many that ask just want 'soundbites' and any further discussion seems to not be on their personal agenda (back to shallow, surface people). " Yep. " I find it hard to describe it in a way that non aspies can understand and find myself getting tripped up by them when I am trying to explain - they'll say things like 'oh everyone is like that' or ask me to explain something only to go onto a completely different topic unrelated when I try to explain. " I do not think there is any real way to make them understand unless they lived our lives. It IS frustrating. I can easily understand how THEY think although I am baffled as to why they enjoy being that way. But then, they are probably baffled as to why we enjoy being the way we are. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 " A neurotypical person being rude and arrogant has a very different look and feel than an autistic person acting in a way that makes a nuerotypical label them rude and arrogant. I have no problem with experiencing the autistic person's behavior that the non-autistic labelled so negatively. But I have a hard time tolerating the non-autistic person behaving in a rude or arrogant way. Usually the non-autistics behavior is based on an attempt to make themselves look good or feel good or achieve power or prestige or something like that. And the autistic person's behavior that got labelled negatively is usually pretty innocent. This is based on my experiences and what I have learned. " One thing to remember though is that if an autistic person wants to manipulate others, they will go about it in a very crafty way while making themselves look good. The owner of Aspergian Island had to ban her entire moderating staff because they allegedly stole the board away from her right under her nose. The folks at AFF have been alleged to badger people who do not agree with their idea that autistics should be recognized by the UN as a minority. If autistics were recognized as such, any parent that sought treatment for an autistic person against their could be accused, tried, and convicted of a hate crime. And the head of Aspergian Island also runs a fanfiction BDSM site. WrongPlanet is in the middle of a lawsuit right now because one of their members threatened togo on a shooting spree and then kill himself and actually DID, and the moderators at WP, according to the suit, did not do enough to inform the authorities or prevent the killings. Yet people love these four sites and trash me for throwing out trolls and whatnot. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 " A neurotypical person being rude and arrogant has a very different look and feel than an autistic person acting in a way that makes a nuerotypical label them rude and arrogant. I have no problem with experiencing the autistic person's behavior that the non-autistic labelled so negatively. But I have a hard time tolerating the non-autistic person behaving in a rude or arrogant way. Usually the non-autistics behavior is based on an attempt to make themselves look good or feel good or achieve power or prestige or something like that. And the autistic person's behavior that got labelled negatively is usually pretty innocent. This is based on my experiences and what I have learned. " One thing to remember though is that if an autistic person wants to manipulate others, they will go about it in a very crafty way while making themselves look good. The owner of Aspergian Island had to ban her entire moderating staff because they allegedly stole the board away from her right under her nose. The folks at AFF have been alleged to badger people who do not agree with their idea that autistics should be recognized by the UN as a minority. If autistics were recognized as such, any parent that sought treatment for an autistic person against their could be accused, tried, and convicted of a hate crime. And the head of Aspergian Island also runs a fanfiction BDSM site. WrongPlanet is in the middle of a lawsuit right now because one of their members threatened togo on a shooting spree and then kill himself and actually DID, and the moderators at WP, according to the suit, did not do enough to inform the authorities or prevent the killings. Yet people love these four sites and trash me for throwing out trolls and whatnot. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 wrote: Everyone seems to think I couldn't possibly be Aspie either because I don't have unusual behaviors and I'm so very social. Depending on the person I'm with and the situation, I can do eye contact without much problem. Things other people notice the most about me are that I sometimes seem spacey and that I am very sensitive. And I like my things a particular way and hate it when people touch or move my things. And changes are really hard for me to adjust to, I like my familiar routine, although I do like some variety also. And I need the people in my life to be reliable and consistent or else it really throws me off. I get told the same thing for the same reasons. I can talk to strangers at an AS convention because I feel like the topic of conversation is one I am compotent in. But I am not so apt to go to the mall unless I HAVE to. I would rather chew my arm off than go to the Doctor. You are not an oddball. I admit I am just shy of a mensa rating. But it doesn't measure every type of intelligence as you stated. so as with other are am proficiant in certain areas and will walk into a wall in others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 wrote: Everyone seems to think I couldn't possibly be Aspie either because I don't have unusual behaviors and I'm so very social. Depending on the person I'm with and the situation, I can do eye contact without much problem. Things other people notice the most about me are that I sometimes seem spacey and that I am very sensitive. And I like my things a particular way and hate it when people touch or move my things. And changes are really hard for me to adjust to, I like my familiar routine, although I do like some variety also. And I need the people in my life to be reliable and consistent or else it really throws me off. I get told the same thing for the same reasons. I can talk to strangers at an AS convention because I feel like the topic of conversation is one I am compotent in. But I am not so apt to go to the mall unless I HAVE to. I would rather chew my arm off than go to the Doctor. You are not an oddball. I admit I am just shy of a mensa rating. But it doesn't measure every type of intelligence as you stated. so as with other are am proficiant in certain areas and will walk into a wall in others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 > > We can keep telling them for ever it's an inbuilt condition, yet still > they will look for ways to change us. There is a standard way to be. > This is the instinctive reaction all differences receive. > I frequently have to explain my logic, it follows a linear path and usually when I am done I have converted the listener. But like the example of times tables. Who wants to do that all day. TIRED mimi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2007 Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 > > We can keep telling them for ever it's an inbuilt condition, yet still > they will look for ways to change us. There is a standard way to be. > This is the instinctive reaction all differences receive. > I frequently have to explain my logic, it follows a linear path and usually when I am done I have converted the listener. But like the example of times tables. Who wants to do that all day. TIRED mimi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 > Tom wrote: " The last time I went to visit her, I looked at something > on her coffee table and set it down. And she got up from her chair and > said " ! That goes HERE! " and moved it about a quarter of an inch. > > " Is that your AS? " I asked. > > " No, " she said. " OCD. " > > I actually don't touch people's stuff because I don't know how they will respond and I actually try to replace things in the exact location of orign when I do. It is actually an extension of my own quirk to avoid conflict. Also as we know your sister has a DX of SSD selfish sister disorder. I have one too, but I feel yours practices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 > Tom wrote: " The last time I went to visit her, I looked at something > on her coffee table and set it down. And she got up from her chair and > said " ! That goes HERE! " and moved it about a quarter of an inch. > > " Is that your AS? " I asked. > > " No, " she said. " OCD. " > > I actually don't touch people's stuff because I don't know how they will respond and I actually try to replace things in the exact location of orign when I do. It is actually an extension of my own quirk to avoid conflict. Also as we know your sister has a DX of SSD selfish sister disorder. I have one too, but I feel yours practices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 > i am an avid people watcher from a > distance.i can barely tolerate people in my home to > the point where i have left the house to get away from them. > I am a people watcher for me it is useful research. If i have to go to a social setting, I watch the people and gather information. I feel like I am watching the behavior of a colony of tribe of and in my head it is all national geographic. better to watch than engage. In the past I just collected data never did anything with it just collected it for the sake of knowledge. It does help me to Map I call it this world mapping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 > I ended up working at a quiet gift shop for less than minimum wage. Even that was too stressful after a while. So I kept a strange kind of sanity by imagining other worlds where I could fit in. Bruce this is what many I think " decide " to do a low stress job. I printed t-shirts. Did the art, saw no one, ordered shirts. worked with 3 other people. did that for 7 years. i loved being alone. I was a lab tech for a few years but I couldn't work the overnight shift. That was the dream job but too many people during the day. too many silly politics of pettiness in an office. It was too silly. mimi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 > > It's those who are arrogant without just cause that are annoying to > those of us who are arrogant because we have good reason to be. ;-) > > Raven > Co-Administrator > Oh Raven, I agree while laughing. Aspies aren't bad at joking; they are hysterical! but the jokes are too quick witted for most to get so they assume !Incorrectly! I might add that ASPIES don't get jokes. Yeah we don't laugh at things that aren't funny. we get JOKES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 > > I have placed the definition of " arrogant " below. > in my experience is usually delivery. I love to converse with knowledgeable people. that is usually termed " learning " Hard to do when one doesn't want to listen. Sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Raven wrote: " It's those who are arrogant without just cause that are annoying to those of us who are arrogant because we have good reason to be. ;-) " mimi responded: " Oh Raven, I agree while laughing. Aspies aren't bad at joking; they are hysterical! but the jokes are too quick witted for most to get so they assume !Incorrectly! I might add that ASPIES don't get jokes. Yeah we don't laugh at things that aren't funny. we get JOKES. " Thanks, mimi. My humour is silent but deadly and yes, most often, completely missed by those who are not AS. Aspies, however, like the quick attack and slow decay of my jokes. :-) Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Raven wrote: " It's those who are arrogant without just cause that are annoying to those of us who are arrogant because we have good reason to be. ;-) " mimi responded: " Oh Raven, I agree while laughing. Aspies aren't bad at joking; they are hysterical! but the jokes are too quick witted for most to get so they assume !Incorrectly! I might add that ASPIES don't get jokes. Yeah we don't laugh at things that aren't funny. we get JOKES. " Thanks, mimi. My humour is silent but deadly and yes, most often, completely missed by those who are not AS. Aspies, however, like the quick attack and slow decay of my jokes. :-) Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 wrote: " ... <snip> ... I didn't know that autistic people were capable of manipulation. I guess I've been listening to the wrong people ... <snip> ... " All people have the ability to manipulate if they choose to make use of this ability. Because those on the spectrum needs their lives to be regimented to varying degrees, there is a corresponding need for things to be as they need to be for those on the spectrum. When people in the environment are inconsistent with enabling this pre-requisite or when people in the environment are not falling within the parameters as identified by those on the spectrum, the person on the spectrum will use various methods to ensure the compliance occurs. Being resourceful people, when straight forward requests are ignored or treated inappropriately, those on the spectrum will then identify the non-compliant person's weaknesses and play to those in order to force compliance. That is manipulation. Even babies can be manipulative. Have you ever truly watched how an infant cries? A few short bursts at first and then they stop to see if someone will provide them with what they want or need. If no one comes, they will cry again with a few short bursts and wait again to see if someone will meet their need or want. If they attempt this often and still no one comes to meet their need or want, then the all-out relentless crying begins. If they attempt this and their needs or wants are met, then it reinforces the behaviour so they can manipulate that person in similar fashion in the future. wrote: " ... <snip> ... I'm still learning a lot about what it means to have Aspergers. There's a lot of information out there ... <snip> ... " And a lot of misinformation. Be careful what you choose to believe. Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 wrote: " ... <snip> ... I didn't know that autistic people were capable of manipulation. I guess I've been listening to the wrong people ... <snip> ... " All people have the ability to manipulate if they choose to make use of this ability. Because those on the spectrum needs their lives to be regimented to varying degrees, there is a corresponding need for things to be as they need to be for those on the spectrum. When people in the environment are inconsistent with enabling this pre-requisite or when people in the environment are not falling within the parameters as identified by those on the spectrum, the person on the spectrum will use various methods to ensure the compliance occurs. Being resourceful people, when straight forward requests are ignored or treated inappropriately, those on the spectrum will then identify the non-compliant person's weaknesses and play to those in order to force compliance. That is manipulation. Even babies can be manipulative. Have you ever truly watched how an infant cries? A few short bursts at first and then they stop to see if someone will provide them with what they want or need. If no one comes, they will cry again with a few short bursts and wait again to see if someone will meet their need or want. If they attempt this often and still no one comes to meet their need or want, then the all-out relentless crying begins. If they attempt this and their needs or wants are met, then it reinforces the behaviour so they can manipulate that person in similar fashion in the future. wrote: " ... <snip> ... I'm still learning a lot about what it means to have Aspergers. There's a lot of information out there ... <snip> ... " And a lot of misinformation. Be careful what you choose to believe. Raven Co-Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 " I actually don't touch people's stuff because I don't know how they will respond and I actually try to replace things in the exact location of orign when I do. It is actually an extension of my own quirk to avoid conflict. Also as we know your sister has a DX of SSD selfish sister disorder. I have one too, but I feel yours practices " She just gets upset that I am right so often. (Notice I said " so often. " ) SHE says " all the time. " My feeling is it is pointless to have a conversation or do anything if you don't have the correct facts and a good attitude to begin with. Tom Administrator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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