Re: Cleavage and legs, oh my!

[Guest guest]

Facial and sexual imprinting can have an effect on how a mate is

chosen. I've read that humans often choose a partner based on

characteristics(visual & personality) of their parents. A man may

not actively look for but will often find themselves a wife who is

very much like their mother and the same goes for women marrying men

like their father.

Here is an abstract by Bereczkei, T. and Gyuris, P. and Koves, P.

and Bernath, L. that explains imprinting and mating in humans.

Whereas the hypothesis of genetically mediated homogamy has been

supported by several studies, certain theoretical and methodological

criticisms have been raised against genetic similarity theory. As an

alternative approach to assortative mating, we suppose that

imprinting-like mechanisms, rather than " direct " genetic detection,

are responsible for choosing similar spouses. In a study aimed at

comparing more than 300 facial photographs of family members and

controls, the judges correctly matched wives to their mother-in-law

at a significantly higher rate than expected by chance. Furthermore,

a higher degree of similarity was ascribed between the husbands'

mother and the husbands' wife than between the husbands and their

wives. A regression analysis has revealed that men who had been more

frequently rejected by their mother during childhood were less likely

to choose mates who resemble their mothers in physical appearance.

These results suggest that under the influence of childhood

experiences, sons internalize their mother's phenotype as a template

for acquiring similar mates.

> >

> > I agree with this. They dressed like they did so they would get

> looked

> > at. If they don't like they attention, then dress differently. It

> has

> > been my experience that usually it isn't being looked at but who

is

> > doing the looking. Many times I've noticed provocatively dressed

> women

> > get " self-conscious " when I was looking at them, but if a tall,

Mr.

> > Sporty, was looking, then they gave them a really good look.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hephaestus Clubfoot

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestus

> http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.html

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

>

> ---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

"Look at me when I'm talking to you!"- That's one of those things that is so interesting to me about this list. I had completely forgotten about my mom saying that to me all through the years. I don't think saying it ever had much effect though, even the few times when she grabbed me by the shoulders while saying it. Heph Kim <6emini@...> wrote: I find that it helps to notice a

person's belongings or things they are proud to own so I'll have something to say about or related to those items. That way the conversation will not revolve entirely on my intrests and perhaps at times a shared intrest. In order to do this though, I must actively think about asking or remind myself before I go to others homes, it does not come naturally.Eye contact was forced on me by my Mother and there was no way to get out of doing exactly what she told me to do. Look at me when I'm talking to you was a common phrase heard in my childhood. I learned how to look at people but have big problems in remembering anything they've said later on. If I speak on the phone or write, conversations and details are easy to recall. I think your right Heph about the peripheral vision being a large factor of my ability to focus. A single strand of hair sticking out past my glasses, a cob web in a corner or anything

fluttering/moving off to the side will distract me.KimHephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

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[Guest guest]

This is true for me also. Ever notice sometimes that if you explain to

be people why you aren't looking at them directly they would rather

have you look at them than remember what they are saying?

Weird.

Tom

Administrator

Look at me when I'm talking to you was a common phrase heard in my

childhood. I learned how to look at people but have big problems in

remembering anything they've said later on.

[Guest guest]

Tribal societies use all generations of women, grandmothers, mothers,

daughters, sisters, aunts because the men had the riskier and sometimes

lethal job of hunting. Maybe that has something to do with the choice

of studs.

Kim

>

> Also, who will take care of the kids they produce if the guy is just

> a stud and not a nurturer?

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

This is true for me also. However, when I am hyper focused on one of

my perseverative interests, a thunderstorm could be going on and I

would not realize it until the power went out and the lights dimmed.

Tom

Administrator

" A single strand of hair sticking out past my glasses, a cob web in a

corner or anything fluttering/moving off to the side will distract

me. "

Ditto :-) I remember some social situations I have been in and I have

been engrossed by bubbles in a glass, light reflecting and refracting

off ice cubes or a tiny little spider that no-one else seems to

notice :-)

[Guest guest]

What about on-line dating where supposedly it's compatability that

matters? I've heard the eharmony commerical way too many times.

Kim

snip

So instead of the mating market (such a crass metaphor?- but effective

for certain kinds of seeing of logics)... so the mating market tends to

either be a " good providers " market or a " good genes " market depending

on the socio-economic circumstances. Again- this is just my opinion,

and I've never heard anyone express this view at all this boldly.

Heph

[Guest guest]

The consquences were harsh for not obeying and by the time I was able

to look up, I was crying so hard that I couldn't see much anyway. I've

read alot about ADHD and do try to have my youngest look at me when I

need to know if he understood me but I kneel down to his level and

lower my voice. Other than those situations where it is imperative I

know he understands for safety, I do not make eye contact an issue with

my kids.

Kim

>

>

> " Look at me when I'm talking to you! " - That's one of those

things that is so interesting to me about this list. I had completely

forgotten about my mom saying that to me all through the years. I don't

think saying it ever had much effect though, even the few times when

she grabbed me by the shoulders while saying it.

>

> Heph

[Guest guest]

" Does this make you uncomfortable... "

It gives me somemthing to dream on.

But yes, it makes me feel uncomfortable.

" ...and have you told them that it's unprofessional? "

No. I had a co-worker once who did tell them it was unprofessional and

she told him that he would not have noticed had he not been looking

where he was looking. She then filed a harrassment grievance against

him as a preventative measure in case he tried to file one. I an a

couple other guys backed his side up when we were interviewed by Human

Resources. The result was that he had to go to sexual harrassment

training and all of us were told to ignore ANY body language by any

woman in the office.

" Do other co-workers notice and have you thought about reverse sexual

harassment? "

Guys know about it, but they don't say anything for the above reason. I

have found this to be true in every office I've ever worked in.

I do believe women are sexually harrassed more than men but I think

it's also true that men are less likely to file greivances because it

makes them look weak to say that a woman is trying to manipulate them

with their bodies.

Aside from that, many offices are still boys clubs, so if a woman

flaunts herself, if you feel uncomfortable with that, your superiors

will just tell you to enjoy it.

It's disgusting any way you look at it.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Topics vary from time to time. They ceter around AS but anything except

the topics listed as prohibited on the home page may be discussed. As

you can see, activity varies according to time of year and other

things.

It really is an interesting group with interesting people. And I must

say that I enjoy your involvement here.

Tom

Administrator

That's one of those things that is so interesting to me about this

list.

Heph

[Guest guest]

Topics vary from time to time. They ceter around AS but anything except

the topics listed as prohibited on the home page may be discussed. As

you can see, activity varies according to time of year and other

things.

It really is an interesting group with interesting people. And I must

say that I enjoy your involvement here.

Tom

Administrator

That's one of those things that is so interesting to me about this

list.

Heph

[Guest guest]

I met my current GF through online chats, and am posting this message

from her house.

Tom

Administrator

What about on-line dating where supposedly it's compatability that

matters? I've heard the eharmony commerical way too many times.

Kim

[Guest guest]

>

" I do believe women are sexually harrassed more than men but I think

> it's also true that men are less likely to file greivances because

it

> makes them look weak to say that a woman is trying to manipulate

them

> with their bodies. "

I've been sexually harrassed on several different jobs, including my

current job, and on one job in the worst way and ended up getting

fired because of it. I don't report it because it's a losing

situation. It makes the person who was sexually harrassed a

troublemaker--against the man(en) who are well liked or an important

part of the company, against the company itself, and if the company

you're hiring for finds out you made a sexual harrassment claim they

are less likely to hire you. Today, by turning around, I caught the

guy who used to harrass me checking me out lewdly and obviously, and

I don't wear provocative clothing. He's the top salesman and a

favorite of the president so I never said anything, though it did end

up in my getting 'talked to' several times for not being helpful to

him. Being cold toward him worked against me and didn't stop him from

harrassing me. I probably should have told him outright to quit it,

but I was afraid he would make things difficult for me. A few months

ago another co-worker put in her notice because of him (not sexual

harrassment but because he threw her under the bus to save himself

over a problem on an account). They did several things to keep her

(not reprimand him, though, of course), including, ironically, giving

her my desk, and having me switch to hers.

> Aside from that, many offices are still boys clubs, so if a woman

> flaunts herself, if you feel uncomfortable with that, your

superiors

> will just tell you to enjoy it.

>

> It's disgusting any way you look at it.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

>

" I do believe women are sexually harrassed more than men but I think

> it's also true that men are less likely to file greivances because

it

> makes them look weak to say that a woman is trying to manipulate

them

> with their bodies. "

I've been sexually harrassed on several different jobs, including my

current job, and on one job in the worst way and ended up getting

fired because of it. I don't report it because it's a losing

situation. It makes the person who was sexually harrassed a

troublemaker--against the man(en) who are well liked or an important

part of the company, against the company itself, and if the company

you're hiring for finds out you made a sexual harrassment claim they

are less likely to hire you. Today, by turning around, I caught the

guy who used to harrass me checking me out lewdly and obviously, and

I don't wear provocative clothing. He's the top salesman and a

favorite of the president so I never said anything, though it did end

up in my getting 'talked to' several times for not being helpful to

him. Being cold toward him worked against me and didn't stop him from

harrassing me. I probably should have told him outright to quit it,

but I was afraid he would make things difficult for me. A few months

ago another co-worker put in her notice because of him (not sexual

harrassment but because he threw her under the bus to save himself

over a problem on an account). They did several things to keep her

(not reprimand him, though, of course), including, ironically, giving

her my desk, and having me switch to hers.

> Aside from that, many offices are still boys clubs, so if a woman

> flaunts herself, if you feel uncomfortable with that, your

superiors

> will just tell you to enjoy it.

>

> It's disgusting any way you look at it.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

>

> " I also agree that the fault of the uncomfortable meeting lies with

> the women. Women have the choice to wear appealing clothes that

> reveals or does not reveal their " assests " and some choose to put

> more of themselves out in the open, so to speak, than others.

>

When a women dresses in such

> a way that she feels attractive, she knows how most men will react

> when seeing her and when they do she has the choice to encourage an

> approach. stated it's all about who is doing the looking

> that changes a women's behavior and it's true. "

A lot of women don't understand what they're doing, though. They are

trying to be attractive but often it's with clothes and by means that

society deems are attractive. If it's attractive to wear short skirts

or low-cut tops they will, because they believe they look good, not

always because of the reaction it will have on men. Many women dress

for other women. If they are trying to be attractive to men, many are

ignorant as to what effect they're having. They think they're being

attractive, but don't realize it's purely sexually attractive.

Many women are looking for a good man and feel that they need to

catch a man's eye by being attractive. Especially if they are

desperate will they resort to this. They still often don't realize

they are being purely sexually attractive and don't realize they are

turning off the very men they are trying to attract. Often the man

noticed them, but wasn't interested, and the women may or may not

know this, and they try harder with what they believe will work.

This is especially true of young women, who are more ignorant about

these things.

[Guest guest]

I find it uncomfortable being touched in this manner.

Women are usually more touchy feely, but some men can be too. I must

admit on one occasion when the person wasn't getting my so unsubtle

sledge hammer hints I threatened to smack them next time they did it -

they stopped - they did seem a bit offended though :-) Well I had

given fair warning and their constantly pawing at me had offended me.

>

> These women then tend to put their hands on my shoulders or chest

while

> talking to me, flare their chests out to me, and bump into me with

> their hips.

>

> But they do not do this with other men who are not as good looking

and

> who make similar eye contact.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Then again if you did look at them it was things like 'don't look at

me like that' - I'd be thinking like what? and 'you think your smart

don't you' and I'm thinking, I thought you wanted me to be smart?

and 'wipe that look off your face', I'm thinking what look? and also

the 'what are you looking at' well if I'm looking at them I would

have thought that obvious (duh!)

Ho hum, you just can't win, 'you can please some of the people some

of the time, but not all the people all the time' so with that

sentiment, might as well please yourself :-)

>

>

> " Look at me when I'm talking to you! " - That's one of those

things that is so interesting to me about this list. I had completely

forgotten about my mom saying that to me all through the years. I

don't

think saying it ever had much effect though, even the few times when

she grabbed me by the shoulders while saying it.

>

> Heph

>

[Guest guest]

I was just thinking at school and other adults when I was a child

would say 'are you listening to me' just because I wasn't looking in

their direction - I would reply yes. I would often be doodling in

class whilst listening too, then they would say, 'what did I just say

then?' and I would repeat word perfect what they said - that always

seemed to annoy them - again weird. I was required to listen, I did.

>

> Look at me when I'm talking to you was a common phrase heard in my

> childhood. I learned how to look at people but have big problems

in

> remembering anything they've said later on.

>

[Guest guest]

I was just thinking at school and other adults when I was a child

would say 'are you listening to me' just because I wasn't looking in

their direction - I would reply yes. I would often be doodling in

class whilst listening too, then they would say, 'what did I just say

then?' and I would repeat word perfect what they said - that always

seemed to annoy them - again weird. I was required to listen, I did.

>

> Look at me when I'm talking to you was a common phrase heard in my

> childhood. I learned how to look at people but have big problems

in

> remembering anything they've said later on.

>

[Guest guest]

Ahhhhhhhh I can get lost into my art work when I am working on

detailed and/or complicated patterns, sometimes it is fairly nice to

do so - I've often started doodling intricate patterns at social

functions to drift away, but dislike being dragged out of such a

state.

Although often at social functions my brain kind of shuts down and

saves me anyway, it is something to do with all the noise and sensory

input, it becomes like overload and I cannot distinguish seperate

conversations, they all come in at once and then my brain quite often

seems to just shut down to save me from such :-)

What is really annoying when such happens is people ask me if I am

okay - I suppose possibly because I have a glazed expression or

something, but I am fine, particularly if they left me alone and

stopped bugging me.

>

> " A single strand of hair sticking out past my glasses, a cob web

in a

> corner or anything fluttering/moving off to the side will distract

> me. "

>

> Ditto :-) I remember some social situations I have been in and I

have

> been engrossed by bubbles in a glass, light reflecting and

refracting

> off ice cubes or a tiny little spider that no-one else seems to

> notice :-)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ahhhhhhhh I can get lost into my art work when I am working on

detailed and/or complicated patterns, sometimes it is fairly nice to

do so - I've often started doodling intricate patterns at social

functions to drift away, but dislike being dragged out of such a

state.

Although often at social functions my brain kind of shuts down and

saves me anyway, it is something to do with all the noise and sensory

input, it becomes like overload and I cannot distinguish seperate

conversations, they all come in at once and then my brain quite often

seems to just shut down to save me from such :-)

What is really annoying when such happens is people ask me if I am

okay - I suppose possibly because I have a glazed expression or

something, but I am fine, particularly if they left me alone and

stopped bugging me.

>

> " A single strand of hair sticking out past my glasses, a cob web

in a

> corner or anything fluttering/moving off to the side will distract

> me. "

>

> Ditto :-) I remember some social situations I have been in and I

have

> been engrossed by bubbles in a glass, light reflecting and

refracting

> off ice cubes or a tiny little spider that no-one else seems to

> notice :-)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son can often paraphrase back to someone what they have said, but he

doesn't always understand it - I always question him on his

understanding, rather than have him just repeat back to me.

>

> The consquences were harsh for not obeying and by the time I was able

> to look up, I was crying so hard that I couldn't see much anyway.

I've

> read alot about ADHD and do try to have my youngest look at me when I

> need to know if he understood me but I kneel down to his level and

> lower my voice. Other than those situations where it is imperative I

> know he understands for safety, I do not make eye contact an issue

with

> my kids.

>

> Kim

[Guest guest]

>

> " ...but because he threw her under the bus to save himself over a

> problem on an account). "

>

> Gosh, surely that is attempted murder? "

Lol, sorry, that's just a saying. I meant he essentially blamed her

for a problem on an account. I don't know where I got that saying,

maybe I'm mixing metaphors. Whatever it is when you push somebody in

front of you to let them take the hit, to save yourself.

>

> " One of the colleges I went to there was a tutor that was very

> friendly towards me, he was a nice enough person, but too touchy

> feely - I once told him I didn't like it, but that didn't stop

him :-

> ( Lots of the other students joked that he liked me, but I just

> thought he was like that with everyone, looking back there were

some

> subtle differences, but I always have trouble picking up

subtleties :-

> ( However another girl complained about this tutor, as he was not

> nice to her and I must agree that I and the other students agreed,

he

> was not nice to her, they sort of had a clash of personalities; but

> unfortunately the tutor was interviewed about this by his friends

and

> collegues - he was even laughing about it publicly - which made me

> realise there was no point in complaining. "

This guy I work with touched me and said things, and did it pretty

regulary. It gets more scary when it's done by a superior, which I

guess a tutor could be considered. Then it's like a power thing, an

abuse of power thing. It's also scary that he wouldn't stop when you

asked.

[Guest guest]

There is a theory, called something like error management theory, where the notion is that males are more likely to pass their (...behavior-influencing..) genes into future generations if they err on the side of overestimating women's interest in them. So the notion is that, in men more than women at least ...and on average... men tend to think women are expressing an interest or are "going along" more often than women really are. I am in no way trying to excuse male stupidity, or blame women who are just trying to get along, rather I'm trying to put forth an argument that some men at least need to be more clearly informed by the women they are annoying. ("Stop that! It's really annoying!") There have been studies on this, but I don't recall offhand how big of an effect it is. Might be pretty minimal. Heph mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: >> "...but because he threw her under the bus to save himself over a > problem on an account)."> > Gosh, surely that is attempted murder?"Lol, sorry, that's just a saying. I meant he essentially blamed her for a problem on an account. I don't know where I got that

saying, maybe I'm mixing metaphors. Whatever it is when you push somebody in front of you to let them take the hit, to save yourself.> >" One of the colleges I went to there was a tutor that was very > friendly towards me, he was a nice enough person, but too touchy > feely - I once told him I didn't like it, but that didn't stop him :-> ( Lots of the other students joked that he liked me, but I just > thought he was like that with everyone, looking back there were some > subtle differences, but I always have trouble picking up subtleties :-> ( However another girl complained about this tutor, as he was not > nice to her and I must agree that I and the other students agreed, he > was not nice to her, they sort of had a clash of personalities; but > unfortunately the tutor was interviewed about this by his friends and > collegues - he was even laughing about it

publicly - which made me > realise there was no point in complaining."This guy I work with touched me and said things, and did it pretty regulary. It gets more scary when it's done by a superior, which I guess a tutor could be considered. Then it's like a power thing, an abuse of power thing. It's also scary that he wouldn't stop when you asked.Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

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[Guest guest]

There is a theory, called something like error management theory, where the notion is that males are more likely to pass their (...behavior-influencing..) genes into future generations if they err on the side of overestimating women's interest in them. So the notion is that, in men more than women at least ...and on average... men tend to think women are expressing an interest or are "going along" more often than women really are. I am in no way trying to excuse male stupidity, or blame women who are just trying to get along, rather I'm trying to put forth an argument that some men at least need to be more clearly informed by the women they are annoying. ("Stop that! It's really annoying!") There have been studies on this, but I don't recall offhand how big of an effect it is. Might be pretty minimal. Heph mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: >> "...but because he threw her under the bus to save himself over a > problem on an account)."> > Gosh, surely that is attempted murder?"Lol, sorry, that's just a saying. I meant he essentially blamed her for a problem on an account. I don't know where I got that

saying, maybe I'm mixing metaphors. Whatever it is when you push somebody in front of you to let them take the hit, to save yourself.> >" One of the colleges I went to there was a tutor that was very > friendly towards me, he was a nice enough person, but too touchy > feely - I once told him I didn't like it, but that didn't stop him :-> ( Lots of the other students joked that he liked me, but I just > thought he was like that with everyone, looking back there were some > subtle differences, but I always have trouble picking up subtleties :-> ( However another girl complained about this tutor, as he was not > nice to her and I must agree that I and the other students agreed, he > was not nice to her, they sort of had a clash of personalities; but > unfortunately the tutor was interviewed about this by his friends and > collegues - he was even laughing about it

publicly - which made me > realise there was no point in complaining."This guy I work with touched me and said things, and did it pretty regulary. It gets more scary when it's done by a superior, which I guess a tutor could be considered. Then it's like a power thing, an abuse of power thing. It's also scary that he wouldn't stop when you asked.Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

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[Guest guest]

Errrrrrrrrrr well I am very blunt when I tell a guy/male I am not

interested - not rude, just very direct if I am not interested.

> >

> > " ...but because he threw her under the bus to save himself over a

> > problem on an account). "

> >

> > Gosh, surely that is attempted murder? "

>

> Lol, sorry, that's just a saying. I meant he essentially blamed her

> for a problem on an account. I don't know where I got that saying,

> maybe I'm mixing metaphors. Whatever it is when you push somebody

in

> front of you to let them take the hit, to save yourself.

> >

> > " One of the colleges I went to there was a tutor that was very

> > friendly towards me, he was a nice enough person, but too touchy

> > feely - I once told him I didn't like it, but that didn't stop

> him :-

> > ( Lots of the other students joked that he liked me, but I just

> > thought he was like that with everyone, looking back there were

> some

> > subtle differences, but I always have trouble picking up

> subtleties :-

> > ( However another girl complained about this tutor, as he was not

> > nice to her and I must agree that I and the other students

agreed,

> he

> > was not nice to her, they sort of had a clash of personalities;

but

> > unfortunately the tutor was interviewed about this by his friends

> and

> > collegues - he was even laughing about it publicly - which made

me

> > realise there was no point in complaining. "

>

> This guy I work with touched me and said things, and did it pretty

> regulary. It gets more scary when it's done by a superior, which I

> guess a tutor could be considered. Then it's like a power thing, an

> abuse of power thing. It's also scary that he wouldn't stop when

you

> asked.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hephaestus Clubfoot

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestus

> http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.html

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

>

> ---------------------------------

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call rates.

>