Re: weight gain in PA

April 23, 2012

THIS IS GONNA GET SASSY SO CHANGE THE CHANNEL IF YOU WANT TO......

No one says they don't believe you - except you keep saying everyone doesn't believe you - I am saying the way you all put it is you're all trying to rewrite science by saying you gain some invisible weight. That you starved yourself and ran a marathon everyday and yet weight just poured on. The immaculate conception of weight gain. YOU ladies, and only one ot two men usually speaks on the weight issue, are exceptions.

You, and lets face it there's very few men who answer the posts, are so obsessed with the weight thing, that even when I say - me - that THE NORMAL PERSON cannot put on more than you take in AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT there is some derangement in the metabolism that messes with the weight metabolism - or a tumor (let's get real as no one is counting a tumor as overeating), let me say it again no one is counting a tumor as overeating), and because "3 or 4" of you on a lIst of hundreds of perople say a tumor was the cause of weight gain or illness was though, then everyone, particularly women I guess in your opinion all over the world are all skinny and perfect and eating has nothing to do with it, nor does exercise, that the only way a woman is not a cheerleader is due to illness or tumors......so are we're never again allowed to discuss proper diet or exercise because lets face it, you have all said it

doesn't work. Fine.

Well just say that Science is wrong, even with YOUR EXCEPTIONS science is wrong. Oh but weight then something is wrong with ME because diet and exercise HAVE helped me.....uhmm.....I must be the exception

So to all the new comers to the list let's stop preaching DASH and exercise - well let's stop talking about those things when they're overweight, because if they're on this list, then they can only be fat because of illness and tumors and well offend them because what applies to them only applies to everyone.

As to a tumor lets say it again one more time - no one is counting you as getting fat from overeating. Do I need to say it again.............or will you listen or is everyone already too defensive and needs a validation for your weight issues.

Lets just leave it at this then. It doesn't matter how much one eats or exercise because 3 or 4 on here say that they gained weight on the best diet ever made, and exercised better then anyone else ever has, and weight came on. So diet and exercise are useless for the rest of us.

Come on people, yes that's sassy, but come on. What applies to a couple of you doesn't apply to the whole world so we can still talk about diet and exercise as healthy things without 5 of you jumping in saying we offended you because air made you gain weight. Not everyone has the exact same problem as you. We get it. You're the exception. Now go tell your kids to eat anything and everything and just play video games and watch TV because weight happens no matter what I guess.

And BTW energy metabolism is not a 1:1 ratio it's not = 1 cal in 1 fat out. There are many variables, and EXCEPTIONS.

But I give......no one gets fat from overeating. Even my mother-in-law.

>> No you misunderstood. You're the clear exception; not the rule.I highly doubt that I'm the clear exception. There are at least 3 or 4 other women (interestingly, JUST women) here who have reported rapid and unexplained weight gain as their first sign that something was wrong.>No, if you continuously take in more than you burn out,, you gain weigt.So let's see - 1000 calories taken in, a day spent doing normal office-job activities followed by an hour yoga class and maybe 30

to 45 minutes of walking = weight gain?> The guy sitting next to you who takes in 5000 calories a day, and burns off 1000 of those playing on his computer IS the averageÃ‚ rule and he is thus obese.Well, yeah, and it's this guy's fault that you and Dr. G don't believe me and the other women on this board who knew that weight gain was the first sign that something was wrong. If it wasn't for this guy, medical professionals wouldn't automatically assume that everybody who is overweight is a lazy slob

April 23, 2012

First I DONT exercise, so I have no idea what exercise will do... So

exercise and diet works for you- Paleo without exercise works me

I do know I gain on 1500 calories of a weight watchers diet and I

lose on 2200-2500 calories on Paleo.Â I have been told eating all

that beef and meat that I would clog my arteries.

My numbers have never been better than they are on a Paleo diet. All

I am saying is that everyone is different.Â Even the way that DASH

plan was written had me gaining weight. I did the DASH " my way" and

i started losing weight again. To me DASH means to increase

Potassium any way possible.Â Potassium is up and my weight is going

down. I cant ask for anything more.

From reading this group 99% of us were misdiagnosed cause docs had

their own preconceptions. Let's not do the same thing here.Â I have

enough common sense to know that if I overeat consistently I will

gain weight!!

And yes science has been wrong sometimes )

Phyllis

On 4/23/2012 1:09 PM, Bingham wrote:

Â

THIS IS GONNA GET SASSY SO CHANGE THE CHANNEL

IF YOU WANT TO......

Â

No one says they don't believe youÂ - except

you keep saying everyone doesn't believe you - I

am saying the wayÂ you all put it isÂ you're all

trying to rewrite science by saying you gain

some invisible weight. That you starved yourself

and ran a marathon everyday and yet weight just

poured on. The immaculate conception of weight

gain. YOUÂ ladies, and only one ot two men

usually speaks on the weight issue, are

exceptions.

Â

You, and lets face it there's very few men

who answer the posts, are so obsessed with the

weight thing, that even when I say - me - that

THE NORMAL PERSON cannot put on more than you

take in AND ACKNOWLEDGEÂ THAT there is some

derangement in the metabolismÂ that messes with

theÂ weight metabolism - Â or a tumor (let's get

real as no one is counting a tumor as

overeating), let me say it again no one is

counting a tumor as overeating), Â and because "3

or 4" of you on a lIst of hundredsÂ of

peropleÂ say a tumor was the cause of weight gain

or illness was though, thenÂ everyone,

particularly women I guess in your opinion all

over the world are all skinny and perfect and

eating has nothing to do with it, nor does

exercise, that the only way a woman is not a

cheerleader is due to illness or tumors......so

are we're never again allowed to discuss

properÂ diet orÂ exercise because lets face it,

you have all said it doesn't work. Fine.

Â

Well just say that Science is wrong, even

with YOUR EXCEPTIONS science is wrong.Â Oh but

weight then something is wrong with ME because

diet and exercise HAVE helped me.....uhmm.....I

must be the exception

Â

So to all the new comers to the list let's

stop preaching DASH and exercise - well let's

stop talking about those things when they're

overweight, because if they're on this list,

then they can only be fat because of illness and

tumors and well offend them because what applies

to them only applies to everyone.

Â

Â As to a tumor lets say it again one more

timeÂ - Â no one is counting you as getting fat

from overeating. Do I need to say it

again.............or will you listen or is

everyone already too defensive and needs a

validation for your weight issues.

Â

Lets just leave it at this then. It doesn't

matter how much one eats or exercise because 3

or 4 on here say that they gained weight on the

best diet ever made, and exercised better then

anyone else ever has, and weight came on. So

diet and exercise are useless for the rest of

us.

Â

Come on people, yes that's sassy, but come

on. What applies to a couple of you doesn't

apply to the whole world so weÂ can still talk

about diet and exercise as healthy things

without 5 of you jumping in saying we offended

you because air made you gain weight. Not

everyone has the exact same problem as you. We

get it. You're the exception. Now go tell your

kids to eat anything and everything and just

play video games and watch TV because weight

happens no matter what I guess.

Â

Â And BTW energy metabolism is not a 1:1

ratioÂ it's not = 1 cal in 1 fat out. There are

many variables, and EXCEPTIONS.

Â

But I give......no one gets fat from

overeating. Even my mother-in-law.

Â

>

> No you misunderstood. You're

the clear exception; not the rule.

I highly doubt that I'm the clear

exception. There are at least 3 or

4 other women (interestingly, JUST

women) here who have reported

rapid and unexplained weight gain

as their first sign that something

was wrong.

>No, if you continuously take

in more than you burn out,, you

gain weigt.

So let's see - 1000 calories taken

in, a day spent doing normal

office-job activities followed by

an hour yoga class and maybe 30 to

45 minutes of walking = weight

gain?

> The guy sitting next to you

who takes in 5000 calories a day,

and burns off 1000 of those

playing on his computer IS the

averageÃ‚Â rule and he is thus

obese.

Well, yeah, and it's this guy's

fault that you and Dr. G don't

believe me and the other women on

this board who knew that weight

gain was the first sign that

something was wrong. If it wasn't

for this guy, medical

professionals wouldn't

automatically assume that

everybody who is overweight is a

lazy slob.

April 23, 2012

Okay, maybe SASSY is a two way street. , explain to me why I gained 15 lbs

in 14 days after I stopped spironolactone. My DASH habits were the same. I had

lost, did I spell that right? LOST 25 LBS in the 5 months I had been DASHing.

The scales were the same. I was real close to naked (I weigh myself EVERY

MORNING right after I check the potty for foam!) Don't you think I would KNOW

if I bent my elbow enough to gain an additional pound a day? Don't you think my

" shopper of 44 years " would have noticed the increased grocery bill? Which one

of us is going to have S-T-U-P-I-D tattoed on our forehead?

I say it is the way the excess aldosterone affects the furnace (I can't spell

metabolism!) I had this same arguement with doctors regarding my flank pain

that radiates to my testis. Their arguement was that " a small tumor " couldn't

be causing that pain. When Spiro took control the pain went away. When spiro

cleared my system the pain returned. Was it the tumor? Obviouly not, it hasn't

changed, yet! I say it is the excess aldosterone!

I plan to do a study of one soon. It looks like we will be removing my right

adrenal soon. I'm sure NIH will be able to access the success and will probably

even weigh it! I will track my weight and report it via the graphs provided by

MyhealthEvet. (I'm unsure what controls we should put in place, Ideas?)

And now another " bitch " . What is all this gender crap? (You too m...!) I

still relate to the Male gender! I have noticed and mentioned weight issues!

What do you mean, " What is your testosterone level? " What's that got to do it?

BOOBs? They are called " Man Boobs " ! Okay I give up but I have one question:

Since I started growing breast 2 years ago, Do I have boobs of a teenager or

those of a 65 year old? (Maintenance and upkeep is different as I understand

it!!!) ;>)

> >

> > No you misunderstood. You're the clear exception; not the rule.

>

> I highly doubt that I'm the clear exception. There are at least 3 or 4 other

women (interestingly, JUST women) here who have reported rapid and unexplained

weight gain as their first sign that something was wrong.

>

> >No, if you continuously take in more than you burn out,, you gain weigt.

>

> So let's see - 1000 calories taken in, a day spent doing normal office-job

activities followed by an hour yoga class and maybe 30 to 45 minutes of walking

= weight gain?

>

> > The guy sitting next to you who takes in 5000 calories a day, and burns off

1000 of those playing on his computer IS the averageÃ‚Â rule and he is thus

obese.

>

> Well, yeah, and it's this guy's fault that you and Dr. G don't believe me and

the other women on this board who knew that weight gain was the first sign that

something was wrong. If it wasn't for this guy, medical professionals wouldn't

automatically assume that everybody who is overweight is a lazy slob.

>

April 23, 2012

Well some here seem to be drinking heavy water if they gain weight on 1500 calories a day. Well unless they weigh say 100 lbs. the DASH has instructions on how to set calories so u will lose weight. Remember that in the DASH Research the eating plan lowered BP without ANY change is weight. They Adjusted calories every few days to keep weight constant. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Apr 23, 2012, at 12:38, Phyllis <phylisrn@...> wrote:

First I DONT exercise, so I have no idea what exercise will do... So

exercise and diet works for you- Paleo without exercise works me

I do know I gain on 1500 calories of a weight watchers diet and I

lose on 2200-2500 calories on Paleo. I have been told eating all

that beef and meat that I would clog my arteries.

My numbers have never been better than they are on a Paleo diet. All

I am saying is that everyone is different. Even the way that DASH

plan was written had me gaining weight. I did the DASH " my way" and

i started losing weight again. To me DASH means to increase

Potassium any way possible. Potassium is up and my weight is going

down. I cant ask for anything more.

From reading this group 99% of us were misdiagnosed cause docs had

their own preconceptions. Let's not do the same thing here. I have

enough common sense to know that if I overeat consistently I will

gain weight!!

And yes science has been wrong sometimes )

Phyllis

On 4/23/2012 1:09 PM, Bingham wrote:

THIS IS GONNA GET SASSY SO CHANGE THE CHANNEL

IF YOU WANT TO......

No one says they don't believe you - except

you keep saying everyone doesn't believe you - I

am saying the way you all put it is you're all

trying to rewrite science by saying you gain

some invisible weight. That you starved yourself

and ran a marathon everyday and yet weight just

poured on. The immaculate conception of weight

gain. YOU ladies, and only one ot two men

usually speaks on the weight issue, are

exceptions.

You, and lets face it there's very few men

who answer the posts, are so obsessed with the

weight thing, that even when I say - me - that

THE NORMAL PERSON cannot put on more than you

take in AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT there is some

derangement in the metabolism that messes with

the weight metabolism - or a tumor (let's get

real as no one is counting a tumor as

overeating), let me say it again no one is

counting a tumor as overeating), and because "3

or 4" of you on a lIst of hundreds of

perople say a tumor was the cause of weight gain

or illness was though, then everyone,

particularly women I guess in your opinion all

over the world are all skinny and perfect and

eating has nothing to do with it, nor does

exercise, that the only way a woman is not a

cheerleader is due to illness or tumors......so

are we're never again allowed to discuss

proper diet or exercise because lets face it,

you have all said it doesn't work. Fine.

Well just say that Science is wrong, even

with YOUR EXCEPTIONS science is wrong. Oh but

weight then something is wrong with ME because

diet and exercise HAVE helped me.....uhmm.....I

must be the exception

So to all the new comers to the list let's

stop preaching DASH and exercise - well let's

stop talking about those things when they're

overweight, because if they're on this list,

then they can only be fat because of illness and

tumors and well offend them because what applies

to them only applies to everyone.

As to a tumor lets say it again one more

time - no one is counting you as getting fat

from overeating. Do I need to say it

again.............or will you listen or is

everyone already too defensive and needs a

validation for your weight issues.

Lets just leave it at this then. It doesn't

matter how much one eats or exercise because 3

or 4 on here say that they gained weight on the

best diet ever made, and exercised better then

anyone else ever has, and weight came on. So

diet and exercise are useless for the rest of

us.

Come on people, yes that's sassy, but come

on. What applies to a couple of you doesn't

apply to the whole world so we can still talk

about diet and exercise as healthy things

without 5 of you jumping in saying we offended

you because air made you gain weight. Not

everyone has the exact same problem as you. We

get it. You're the exception. Now go tell your

kids to eat anything and everything and just

play video games and watch TV because weight

happens no matter what I guess.

And BTW energy metabolism is not a 1:1

ratio it's not = 1 cal in 1 fat out. There are

many variables, and EXCEPTIONS.

But I give......no one gets fat from

overeating. Even my mother-in-law.

>

> No you misunderstood. You're

the clear exception; not the rule.

I highly doubt that I'm the clear

exception. There are at least 3 or

4 other women (interestingly, JUST

women) here who have reported

rapid and unexplained weight gain

as their first sign that something

was wrong.

>No, if you continuously take

in more than you burn out,, you

gain weigt.

So let's see - 1000 calories taken

in, a day spent doing normal

office-job activities followed by

an hour yoga class and maybe 30 to

45 minutes of walking = weight

gain?

> The guy sitting next to you

who takes in 5000 calories a day,

and burns off 1000 of those

playing on his computer IS the

averageÃ‚ rule and he is thus

obese.

Well, yeah, and it's this guy's

fault that you and Dr. G don't

believe me and the other women on

this board who knew that weight

gain was the first sign that

something was wrong. If it wasn't

for this guy, medical

professionals wouldn't

automatically assume that

everybody who is overweight is a

lazy slob.

April 24, 2012

, you're asking questions to which I have no answers.Â I'm simply referring to my meticulous records.Â For one, I was hypOthyroid for nine years before anyone noticed.Â By the time I got Lyme treatment, I was so weak I couldn't get to the mailbox on the street. Â Exercise did not cause my weight loss.Â Only through my meticulous records was my Lyme doctor able to put two and two together.Â He's the one who gave enough of a damn to get to the bottom of my problems.Â If it takes 1,200 calories to get enough nutrients, how can one survive for an extended period of time on 800?Â How does one gain weight on 800 - 1,000 calories? About Lyme:Â You don't get it until you get it.Â About fat:Â You don't get it until you get it. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham No one is doubting that physical derangements cause changes in how we metabolize and how we retain fats and things. But there is still a basic science, no matter how much the naturopath understands hormonal dreangments. How could taking in 5 lbs of meals - suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight gain? What is it that ADDS weight inside the body in that case? How could it happen? I can't see it happening. I can see something messing with metabolism, causing it to work slower, like hypothyroid does, so that which we take in is stored and not burned off - but there is still the ability to overcome that with exercise and burn off calories. If we're too tired then this is the case and it is what it is. So the the weight gain is still caused by intake and lack of ability to exercise in that case. But we can see the realtionship. It is still intake/outake the disease just keeps us from working it off, so we grow. In the lyme case. Why the weight gain, if it has nothing to do with what you eat and how you exercise? and then where is the weight coming from? What building block is it then - regardless of " dereangement " because we can't build something from nothing, deranged or not. What do they say is the mechanism? Is it fat? protein? Sugars? a mysterious something that grows weight? Respectfully, you don't make sense, or your trying to get us to see something that only you can see or is not there. So at your word you ate perfect. - fanatically perfect - and you don't mention it, but I assume you exercised perfect along with it, because it appears the weight issue was important to you. But you took in little food, and yet you gained weight, not just a little, but apparently ALOT of weight So your at 96 lbs and then start gaining and gaining, but the fanatical diet and the exercize routine are olympic athlete level, but the weight still piles on. There are a few questions to answer: 1. What made the weight? What materials, as this is a scientific/physiological question, What products, what source of fat,, what anything it was, created more fat to make you more and more heavier? It HAS to be something and where did it come from? 2. When you lost the weight that fast with lyme treatment, why/how did you lose the weight? What derangement did they correct to enable you to lose weight now? And scientifically what was the lyme related derangement that made you hold on to weight despite every effort to lose it? These answers are important factors to the woman's eternal question of how to lose weight. If we can id some of the derangements that make extra fat grow inside of us, despite an absolute perfect effort in diet and exercise, we'll have opened up a new world. Bottom line for those of us who do believe in the diet/exercise connection, we also believe there are pitfalls and diseases that make it difficult to do, and it's not that simple all the time. But still believe if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs unless you under cooked the meat and it had a baby grow inside you. From: Valarie <val@...>It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out. Without trying, I've lost 40 pounds since being on Lyme treatment. When I got sick, I weighed 96 pounds after having five babies. My weight climbed and climbed and I couldn't reverse it. I kept meticulous records, much like I did when I controlled sodium such that it was too low to quantitate in urine. On diets of only 800 - 1,000/day, I couldn't lose an ounce. I think you need 1,200 calories to get enough nutrients. My Lyme PA says that when the body normalizes, so does weight. She has a good understanding of how some diseases can cause metabolic derangement. This argument gets old. I finally just started walking out (without paying) on doctors who had no understanding of how bodily systems interact. From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of msmith_1928 That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My " calories in " are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight. I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.-msmith1928Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11 >> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

April 24, 2012

The calories in, calories out rhetoric is so superficial. " Manipulating the microbial flora within the intestine offers great promise for preventing or treating obesityâ€¦ " http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ACP/32295 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham No one is doubting that physical derangements cause changes in how we metabolize and how we retain fats and things. But there is still a basic science, no matter how much the naturopath understands hormonal dreangments. How could taking in 5 lbs of meals - suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight gain? What is it that ADDS weight inside the body in that case? How could it happen? I can't see it happening. I can see something messing with metabolism, causing it to work slower, like hypothyroid does, so that which we take in is stored and not burned off - but there is still the ability to overcome that with exercise and burn off calories. If we're too tired then this is the case and it is what it is. So the the weight gain is still caused by intake and lack of ability to exercise in that case. But we can see the realtionship. It is still intake/outake the disease just keeps us from working it off, so we grow. In the lyme case. Why the weight gain, if it has nothing to do with what you eat and how you exercise? and then where is the weight coming from? What building block is it then - regardless of " dereangement " because we can't build something from nothing, deranged or not. What do they say is the mechanism? Is it fat? protein? Sugars? a mysterious something that grows weight? Respectfully, you don't make sense, or your trying to get us to see something that only you can see or is not there. So at your word you ate perfect. - fanatically perfect - and you don't mention it, but I assume you exercised perfect along with it, because it appears the weight issue was important to you. But you took in little food, and yet you gained weight, not just a little, but apparently ALOT of weight So your at 96 lbs and then start gaining and gaining, but the fanatical diet and the exercize routine are olympic athlete level, but the weight still piles on. There are a few questions to answer: 1. What made the weight? What materials, as this is a scientific/physiological question, What products, what source of fat,, what anything it was, created more fat to make you more and more heavier? It HAS to be something and where did it come from? 2. When you lost the weight that fast with lyme treatment, why/how did you lose the weight? What derangement did they correct to enable you to lose weight now? And scientifically what was the lyme related derangement that made you hold on to weight despite every effort to lose it? These answers are important factors to the woman's eternal question of how to lose weight. If we can id some of the derangements that make extra fat grow inside of us, despite an absolute perfect effort in diet and exercise, we'll have opened up a new world. Bottom line for those of us who do believe in the diet/exercise connection, we also believe there are pitfalls and diseases that make it difficult to do, and it's not that simple all the time. But still believe if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs unless you under cooked the meat and it had a baby grow inside you. From: Valarie <val@...> It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out.

April 24, 2012

The calories in, calories out rhetoric is so superficial. " Manipulating the microbial flora within the intestine offers great promise for preventing or treating obesityâ€¦ " http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ACP/32295 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham No one is doubting that physical derangements cause changes in how we metabolize and how we retain fats and things. But there is still a basic science, no matter how much the naturopath understands hormonal dreangments. How could taking in 5 lbs of meals - suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight gain? What is it that ADDS weight inside the body in that case? How could it happen? I can't see it happening. I can see something messing with metabolism, causing it to work slower, like hypothyroid does, so that which we take in is stored and not burned off - but there is still the ability to overcome that with exercise and burn off calories. If we're too tired then this is the case and it is what it is. So the the weight gain is still caused by intake and lack of ability to exercise in that case. But we can see the realtionship. It is still intake/outake the disease just keeps us from working it off, so we grow. In the lyme case. Why the weight gain, if it has nothing to do with what you eat and how you exercise? and then where is the weight coming from? What building block is it then - regardless of " dereangement " because we can't build something from nothing, deranged or not. What do they say is the mechanism? Is it fat? protein? Sugars? a mysterious something that grows weight? Respectfully, you don't make sense, or your trying to get us to see something that only you can see or is not there. So at your word you ate perfect. - fanatically perfect - and you don't mention it, but I assume you exercised perfect along with it, because it appears the weight issue was important to you. But you took in little food, and yet you gained weight, not just a little, but apparently ALOT of weight So your at 96 lbs and then start gaining and gaining, but the fanatical diet and the exercize routine are olympic athlete level, but the weight still piles on. There are a few questions to answer: 1. What made the weight? What materials, as this is a scientific/physiological question, What products, what source of fat,, what anything it was, created more fat to make you more and more heavier? It HAS to be something and where did it come from? 2. When you lost the weight that fast with lyme treatment, why/how did you lose the weight? What derangement did they correct to enable you to lose weight now? And scientifically what was the lyme related derangement that made you hold on to weight despite every effort to lose it? These answers are important factors to the woman's eternal question of how to lose weight. If we can id some of the derangements that make extra fat grow inside of us, despite an absolute perfect effort in diet and exercise, we'll have opened up a new world. Bottom line for those of us who do believe in the diet/exercise connection, we also believe there are pitfalls and diseases that make it difficult to do, and it's not that simple all the time. But still believe if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs unless you under cooked the meat and it had a baby grow inside you. From: Valarie <val@...> It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out.

April 24, 2012

It is a basic law of bio-physics. If the bugs eat it before you do then the calories don't go in. Indeed you can give a person a tapeworm(s) and they can take in a lot more calories but the worm(s) get them first. Or you can have a GI fistula that bypasses the absorption sites and the calories go out the fistula. But still the basic concept is weight = calories in - calories out. CE Grim MDOn Apr 24, 2012, at 1:47 PM, Valarie wrote: The calories in, calories out rhetoric is so superficial. "Manipulating the microbial flora within the intestine offers great promise for preventing or treating obesity…"http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ACP/32295 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham No one is doubting that physical derangements cause changes in how we metabolize and how we retain fats and things. But there is still a basic science, no matter how much the naturopath understands hormonal dreangments. How could taking in 5 lbs of meals - suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight gain? What is it that ADDS weight inside the body in that case? How could it happen? I can't see it happening. I can see something messing with metabolism, causing it to work slower, like hypothyroid does, so that which we take in is stored and not burned off - but there is still the ability to overcome that with exercise and burn off calories. If we're too tired then this is the case and it is what it is. So the the weight gain is still caused by intake and lack of ability to exercise in that case. But we can see the realtionship. It is still intake/outake the disease just keeps us from working it off, so we grow. In the lyme case. Why the weight gain, if it has nothing to do with what you eat and how you exercise? and then where is the weight coming from? What building block is it then - regardless of "dereangement" because we can't build something from nothing, deranged or not. What do they say is the mechanism? Is it fat? protein? Sugars? a mysterious something that grows weight? Respectfully, you don't make sense, or your trying to get us to see something that only you can see or is not there. So at your word you ate perfect. - fanatically perfect - and you don't mention it, but I assume you exercised perfect along with it, because it appears the weight issue was important to you. But you took in little food, and yet you gained weight, not just a little, but apparently ALOT of weight So your at 96 lbs and then start gaining and gaining, but the fanatical diet and the exercize routine are olympic athlete level, but the weight still piles on. There are a few questions to answer: 1. What made the weight? What materials, as this is a scientific/physiological question, What products, what source of fat,, what anything it was, created more fat to make you more and more heavier? It HAS to be something and where did it come from? 2. When you lost the weight that fast with lyme treatment, why/how did you lose the weight? What derangement did they correct to enable you to lose weight now? And scientifically what was the lyme related derangement that made you hold on to weight despite every effort to lose it? These answers are important factors to the woman's eternal question of how to lose weight. If we can id some of the derangements that make extra fat grow inside of us, despite an absolute perfect effort in diet and exercise, we'll have opened up a new world. Bottom line for those of us who do believe in the diet/exercise connection, we also believe there are pitfalls and diseases that make it difficult to do, and it's not that simple all the time. But still believe if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs unless you under cooked the meat and it had a baby grow inside you. From: Valarie <val@...> It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out.

April 24, 2012

It is a basic law of bio-physics. If the bugs eat it before you do then the calories don't go in. Indeed you can give a person a tapeworm(s) and they can take in a lot more calories but the worm(s) get them first. Or you can have a GI fistula that bypasses the absorption sites and the calories go out the fistula. But still the basic concept is weight = calories in - calories out. CE Grim MDOn Apr 24, 2012, at 1:47 PM, Valarie wrote: The calories in, calories out rhetoric is so superficial. "Manipulating the microbial flora within the intestine offers great promise for preventing or treating obesity…"http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ACP/32295 Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham No one is doubting that physical derangements cause changes in how we metabolize and how we retain fats and things. But there is still a basic science, no matter how much the naturopath understands hormonal dreangments. How could taking in 5 lbs of meals - suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight gain? What is it that ADDS weight inside the body in that case? How could it happen? I can't see it happening. I can see something messing with metabolism, causing it to work slower, like hypothyroid does, so that which we take in is stored and not burned off - but there is still the ability to overcome that with exercise and burn off calories. If we're too tired then this is the case and it is what it is. So the the weight gain is still caused by intake and lack of ability to exercise in that case. But we can see the realtionship. It is still intake/outake the disease just keeps us from working it off, so we grow. In the lyme case. Why the weight gain, if it has nothing to do with what you eat and how you exercise? and then where is the weight coming from? What building block is it then - regardless of "dereangement" because we can't build something from nothing, deranged or not. What do they say is the mechanism? Is it fat? protein? Sugars? a mysterious something that grows weight? Respectfully, you don't make sense, or your trying to get us to see something that only you can see or is not there. So at your word you ate perfect. - fanatically perfect - and you don't mention it, but I assume you exercised perfect along with it, because it appears the weight issue was important to you. But you took in little food, and yet you gained weight, not just a little, but apparently ALOT of weight So your at 96 lbs and then start gaining and gaining, but the fanatical diet and the exercize routine are olympic athlete level, but the weight still piles on. There are a few questions to answer: 1. What made the weight? What materials, as this is a scientific/physiological question, What products, what source of fat,, what anything it was, created more fat to make you more and more heavier? It HAS to be something and where did it come from? 2. When you lost the weight that fast with lyme treatment, why/how did you lose the weight? What derangement did they correct to enable you to lose weight now? And scientifically what was the lyme related derangement that made you hold on to weight despite every effort to lose it? These answers are important factors to the woman's eternal question of how to lose weight. If we can id some of the derangements that make extra fat grow inside of us, despite an absolute perfect effort in diet and exercise, we'll have opened up a new world. Bottom line for those of us who do believe in the diet/exercise connection, we also believe there are pitfalls and diseases that make it difficult to do, and it's not that simple all the time. But still believe if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs unless you under cooked the meat and it had a baby grow inside you. From: Valarie <val@...> It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out.

April 24, 2012

When are you going back?

> > >

> > > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

> >

>

April 24, 2012

When I was at NIH, I had a list of questions that I asked my Dr. (Dr. Moraitis).

Included in those questions were many of the associated symptoms people on this

board report (brain fog, weight issues, weight issues associated with mcbs, cold

extremities, temp regulating, depression, fatigue, flank pain, etc.) He told me

that he too has observed and heard complaints from patients in the protocol,

however, they have not done the research on it and therefore did not know. He

also said that they are more concerned and doing current research to be able to

say for sure...with collateral damage done by excess aldo and excess cortisol;

those being LVH, hyperlipids, and other cardiac issues, osteopenia,

osteoperosis, miscarriage, PCOS, retinal damage, and maybe others that I don't

remember. I am going back soon for more testing of my concurrent cushings

issue, and will ask if they would consider research on some of the associated

symptomology since all of us are struggling and need to know.

> > > >

> > > > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you

> > > saying calories are the only cause?

> > >

> >

>

April 24, 2012

Mybe tomorrow if we get ny more ice nd snow! I haven't heard but it will be

sooner rather than later if my flank pain keeps acting up!

Dr. Moraitis has been/is out of town and he thought Dr. El-Maouche would be

contacting me. (He responded to me at midnight Sat. Night!)

Guess I need to make a call!

Did I see that you have a date?

> > > >

> > > > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

> > >

> >

>

April 24, 2012

The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom of PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something else (perhaps psychiatric?). Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of maggiekat7 When I was at NIH, I had a list of questions that I asked my Dr. (Dr. Moraitis). Included in those questions were many of the associated symptoms people on this board report (brain fog, weight issues, weight issues associated with mcbs, cold extremities, temp regulating, depression, fatigue, flank pain, etc.) He told me that he too has observed and heard complaints from patients in the protocol, however, they have not done the research on it and therefore did not know. He also said that they are more concerned and doing current research to be able to say for sure...with collateral damage done by excess aldo and excess cortisol; those being LVH, hyperlipids, and other cardiac issues, osteopenia, osteoperosis, miscarriage, PCOS, retinal damage, and maybe others that I don't remember. I am going back soon for more testing of my concurrent cushings issue, and will ask if they would consider research on some of the associated symptomology since all of us are strugglin g and need to know..

April 25, 2012

I'm not a doctor but I recommend a good dose of EXLAX for the good doctor! It's

OTC so I can RX! I've seen three different psychiatrists since I've been

treated for PA and none of them were able to eliminate flank pain or unrination

issue! Spironolactone took care of both!

>

> The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom of

> PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something

> else (perhaps psychiatric?).

>

> Val

>

> From: hyperaldosteronism

> [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of maggiekat7

>

> When I was at NIH, I had a list of questions that I asked my Dr. (Dr.

> Moraitis). Included in those questions were many of the associated symptoms

> people on this board report (brain fog, weight issues, weight issues

> associated with mcbs, cold extremities, temp regulating, depression,

> fatigue, flank pain, etc.) He told me that he too has observed and heard

> complaints from patients in the protocol, however, they have not done the

> research on it and therefore did not know. He also said that they are more

> concerned and doing current research to be able to say for sure...with

> collateral damage done by excess aldo and excess cortisol; those being LVH,

> hyperlipids, and other cardiac issues, osteopenia, osteoperosis,

> miscarriage, PCOS, retinal damage, and maybe others that I don't remember. I

> am going back soon for more testing of my concurrent cushings issue, and

> will ask if they would consider research on some of the associated

> symptomology since all of us are strugglin g and need to know.

>

> .

>

> Web Bug from

> http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=7299303/grpspId=1705132763/msgId=

> 42653/stime=1335316189/nc1=5191949/nc2=3848642/nc3=5191951

> <http://www.mailscanner.tv/1x1spacer.gif>

>

April 25, 2012

Likewise, none of those experts could tell me how being crazy caused my knee cartilage to disintegrate. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of I'm not a doctor but I recommend a good dose of EXLAX for the good doctor! It's OTC so I can RX! I've seen three different psychiatrists since I've been treated for PA and none of them were able to eliminate flank pain or unrination issue! Spironolactone took care of both!>> The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom of> PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something> else (perhaps psychiatric?)..

April 25, 2012

Were you a crazy jogger?May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Apr 25, 2012, at 13:34, Valarie <val@...> wrote:

Likewise, none of those experts could tell me how being crazy caused my knee cartilage to disintegrate. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of I'm not a doctor but I recommend a good dose of EXLAX for the good doctor! It's OTC so I can RX! I've seen three different psychiatrists since I've been treated for PA and none of them were able to eliminate flank pain or unrination issue!

Spironolactone took care of both!>> The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom of> PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something> else (perhaps psychiatric?)..

April 25, 2012

Never jogged.Â I was healthy, strong and raising five children.Â One day, my knee swelled up to 3x its normal size.Â From there, a severe flu set in and it was all downhill until December of 2009.Â It is uphill from now.Â I just got that knee fixed and am strong enough again to walk. For want of a few doxy pills, I've given my life to this disease.Â Especially ironic is that the first physician I saw said he thought it was Lyme.Â From there, he forgot about it. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Were you a crazy jogger?On Apr 25, 2012, at 13:34, Valarie <val@...> wrote: Likewise, none of those experts could tell me how being crazy caused my knee cartilage to disintegrate.From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of I'm not a doctor but I recommend a good dose of EXLAX for the good doctor! It's OTC so I can RX! I've seen three different psychiatrists since I've been treated for PA and non e of them were able to eliminate flank pain or unrination issue! Spironolactone took care of both!>> The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom of> PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something> else (perhaps psychiatric?)..

April 25, 2012

I have told doctors to "walk a mile in my shoes"! > >> > The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom> of> > PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something> > else (perhaps psychiatric?).> > > > .> > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=7299303/grpspId=1705132763/msgId> =42671/stime=1335362740/nc1=5191949/nc2=3848643/nc3=5191951>>

April 25, 2012

My wife never jogged a mile in her life and her knees are shot! (Of course she

has been a hairdresser since 1964, chased 3 children to maturity and now loves

long walks with two granddaughters and playing in her gardens!) Stereotypes,

got to love them! ;>)

> > >

> > > The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom

of

> > > PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something

> > > else (perhaps psychiatric?).

> >

> > .

> >

>

April 26, 2012

Did you not get treated at all for even a short time when he thought it was Lyme?Dont recall exactly.CE Grim MDOn Apr 25, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Valarie wrote: Never jogged. I was healthy, strong and raising five children. One day, my knee swelled up to 3x its normal size. From there, a severe flu set in and it was all downhill until December of 2009. It is uphill from now. I just got that knee fixed and am strong enough again to walk. For want of a few doxy pills, I've given my life to this disease. Especially ironic is that the first physician I saw said he thought it was Lyme. From there, he forgot about it. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence Grim Were you a crazy jogger?On Apr 25, 2012, at 13:34, Valarie <val@...> wrote: Likewise, none of those experts could tell me how being crazy caused my knee cartilage to disintegrate.From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of I'm not a doctor but I recommend a good dose of EXLAX for the good doctor! It's OTC so I can RX! I've seen three different psychiatrists since I've been treated for PA and non e of them were able to eliminate flank pain or unrination issue! Spironolactone took care of both!>> The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom of> PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something> else (perhaps psychiatric?)..

April 26, 2012

Ah and how many BMI points is she above 25. Remember each pound one carries around is like carrying 4 sticks of butter in a backback 24 hrs a day. So if one is 40 lbs overweight then you are carrying 160 sticks of butter around. One can do the math. The knee is an amazing mechanical device but like all mechanical devices they wear out faster if over stressed.Of course knees (or any other part of the body) can go bad for the same reasons your car goes bad: auto/body examples1. Made wrong. Manufacturer or your genes2. Bad luck. Accident3. Bad judgement. Used wrong oil or smoking4. Wore out. Bearings or knees. CE Grim MD On Apr 25, 2012, at 2:26 PM, wrote: My wife never jogged a mile in her life and her knees are shot! (Of course she has been a hairdresser since 1964, chased 3 children to maturity and now loves long walks with two granddaughters and playing in her gardens!) Stereotypes, got to love them! ;>) > > > > > > The renowned Mayo physician, Dr. Young, told me the only symptom of > > > PA is that of low K. Any other symptoms were not of PA but of something > > > else (perhaps psychiatric?). > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > >

April 26, 2012

Never got a day of antibiotics. I first got prednisone which very nearly drove me crazy. Then I took a parade of drugs starting with oral gold and then many different anti-inflammatories. I took those for 14 years and would have killed for them. They numbed the pain. Steroids are contraindicated with Lyme. In fact, a cortisone knee injection put me in the ER back in '08 - erratic heartbeat, 210/120 BP, semi-low potassium. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Clarence GrimDid you not get treated at all for even a short time when he thought it was Lyme? Dont recall exactly.

April 27, 2012

Renowned Mayo doc Young was also consulted on my case. One of my endos

forwarded my chart and all of his poorly, incorectly done labs, and his

evaluation was that I do not even have hyperaldosteronism. No further eval

necessary, the endo who consulted him said after the consult. Same labs sent to

NIH and they simply said the labs were done wrong, couldn't be used in my

assessment. Then invited me to come and have them do them right.