Re: weight gain in PA

[Guest guest]

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing

more complicated than that.

However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that

simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a

whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next

year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been

overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and

fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50

pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the

adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.

When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount

of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say

that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My " calories in " are

definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs

- but no longer gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads

to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

Your still wrong. The tumor was and is weight and grew from SOMETHING. A tumor isn't made from mysterious material that simply materializes. So it's not a mysterious explanation. If you would have swallowed a 5 pound stone you'd never lose that 5 lbs until you took out the stone - it's still something.

And you make no mention of exercise. Did you exercise less as you got sicker? Did lifestyle change and were you more sedate? Your telling us that you made sure you burned off as much as you took in - actually more - and you still gained (I am being rhetorical because we've had this argument and everyone has says they do/did)? Dieting alone is not the only factor. Were there insulin changes too? Do you know if there were? Did the tumor affect insulin resistance?

Above all a 20 lbs tumor is the complete exception. You're not the rule and most do not have a 20lbs tumor.

It IS that simple scientifically - there are just things that get in the way. It should only be 1 hour in Southern California to go 60 miles at 60 mph. But there's lights, and traffic, and could be an accident, or car trouble, or so on .....but at 60mph it IS still 1 hour to go 60 miles, granted everything is perfect. Same with diet.

But..... Still can't make something from nothing.

From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>Subject: Re: weight gain in PAhyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012, 12:35 PM

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that,

at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight. I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.-msmith1928Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11 >> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience. I too have gained the most weight in my life, in an extremely short time. My thyroid keeps checking out just fine and my diet and exercise have remained consistent. I guess diet can ALWAYS be stricter, but I feel like I'm verging on being a total ascetic. I'm for most people, diet is a huge factor in their weight gain during PA, but a piece is definitely missing in understanding the aldosterone connection to metabolism. From: msmith_1928

<janeray1940@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:35 AM Subject: Re: weight gain in PA

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.

However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.

When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience. I too have gained the most weight in my life, in an extremely short time. My thyroid keeps checking out just fine and my diet and exercise have remained consistent. I guess diet can ALWAYS be stricter, but I feel like I'm verging on being a total ascetic. I'm for most people, diet is a huge factor in their weight gain during PA, but a piece is definitely missing in understanding the aldosterone connection to metabolism. From: msmith_1928

<janeray1940@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:35 AM Subject: Re: weight gain in PA

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.

However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.

When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience. I too have gained the most weight in my life, in an extremely short time. My thyroid keeps checking out just fine and my diet and exercise have remained consistent. I guess diet can ALWAYS be stricter, but I feel like I'm verging on being a total ascetic. I'm for most people, diet is a huge factor in their weight gain during PA, but a piece is definitely missing in understanding the aldosterone connection to metabolism. From: msmith_1928

<janeray1940@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:35 AM Subject: Re: weight gain in PA

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.

However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.

When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience. I too have gained the most weight in my life, in an extremely short time. My thyroid keeps checking out just fine and my diet and exercise have remained consistent. I guess diet can ALWAYS be stricter, but I feel like I'm verging on being a total ascetic. I'm for most people, diet is a huge factor in their weight gain during PA, but a piece is definitely missing in understanding the aldosterone connection to metabolism. From: msmith_1928

<janeray1940@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:35 AM Subject: Re: weight gain in PA

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.

However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.

When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience. I too have gained the most weight in my life, in an extremely short time. My thyroid keeps checking out just fine and my diet and exercise have remained consistent. I guess diet can ALWAYS be stricter, but I feel like I'm verging on being a total ascetic. I'm for most people, diet is a huge factor in their weight gain during PA, but a piece is definitely missing in understanding the aldosterone connection to metabolism. From: msmith_1928

<janeray1940@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:35 AM Subject: Re: weight gain in PA

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.

However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.

When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience. I too have gained the most weight in my life, in an extremely short time. My thyroid keeps checking out just fine and my diet and exercise have remained consistent. I guess diet can ALWAYS be stricter, but I feel like I'm verging on being a total ascetic. I'm for most people, diet is a huge factor in their weight gain during PA, but a piece is definitely missing in understanding the aldosterone connection to metabolism. From: msmith_1928

<janeray1940@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:35 AM Subject: Re: weight gain in PA

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.

However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.

When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

m - so nice to hear from you, maybe it's different if you are on the inside

looking out and throw in a few variables like OSA, interrupted sleep, COPD and

your list of challenges!

I thought of you as I was observing my AVS the other day! The doctor lists

thousands of AVSs on his resume, mine didn't start until 2:15 because I was his

third that day! I knew he has having trouble hitting the the right one and he

called a time out. I could hear the " small time banter " for about 10 minutes

and then it was back to work. W/I about a minute he exclaimed, " Got It, that

sucker was headed up! " You could feel the tension leave the room! What an

experience, I was back in my room with my nurse's undivided attention in less

than 2 hours. Heard from my doctor (at 11:22 last night), he wants that right

one on the table - he can have it, I tried to get rid of it 2 years ago!

Stay tuned, this may get intresting!

> >

> > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

>

[Guest guest]

m - so nice to hear from you, maybe it's different if you are on the inside

looking out and throw in a few variables like OSA, interrupted sleep, COPD and

your list of challenges!

I thought of you as I was observing my AVS the other day! The doctor lists

thousands of AVSs on his resume, mine didn't start until 2:15 because I was his

third that day! I knew he has having trouble hitting the the right one and he

called a time out. I could hear the " small time banter " for about 10 minutes

and then it was back to work. W/I about a minute he exclaimed, " Got It, that

sucker was headed up! " You could feel the tension leave the room! What an

experience, I was back in my room with my nurse's undivided attention in less

than 2 hours. Heard from my doctor (at 11:22 last night), he wants that right

one on the table - he can have it, I tried to get rid of it 2 years ago!

Stay tuned, this may get intresting!

> >

> > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

>

[Guest guest]

m - so nice to hear from you, maybe it's different if you are on the inside

looking out and throw in a few variables like OSA, interrupted sleep, COPD and

your list of challenges!

I thought of you as I was observing my AVS the other day! The doctor lists

thousands of AVSs on his resume, mine didn't start until 2:15 because I was his

third that day! I knew he has having trouble hitting the the right one and he

called a time out. I could hear the " small time banter " for about 10 minutes

and then it was back to work. W/I about a minute he exclaimed, " Got It, that

sucker was headed up! " You could feel the tension leave the room! What an

experience, I was back in my room with my nurse's undivided attention in less

than 2 hours. Heard from my doctor (at 11:22 last night), he wants that right

one on the table - he can have it, I tried to get rid of it 2 years ago!

Stay tuned, this may get intresting!

> >

> > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

>

[Guest guest]

, I think you misunderstood. I didn't have a 20 pound tumor; I dropped

close to 20 pounds after the tumor was removed. No effort and certainly no

exercise involved.

I've always tracked calories. I'm small and spend most of my time at a desk job

so I rarely go over 1300 a day. When I was at my fattest, I had a (clueless)

doctor and (even more clueless) nutritionist monitoring me - I was eating under

1000 calories a day and piling on the pounds. I was not a closet eater (I

actually hate eating and think of food as an inconvenience rather than a

pleasure). Neither doctor nor nutritionist could figure out the weight gain and

the only explanation I ever got at the time was " metabolic syndrome. "

As for exercise, I've always hiked and done yoga - fat, skinny, didn't matter.

I've never felt that it affected my weight either way- as I said, after the

surgery when the only exercise I did was walking (SLOWLY!), I still managed to

drop 20 pounds.

The best explanation I've got is this: tumor made me insulin resistant. Insulin

resistance causes weight gain. No more tumor, no more insulin resistance, no

more weight gain.

And I'm sorry, but conventional wisdom is dead wrong here - when insulin

resistance factors into the equation, there's a lot more to it than " calories

in, calories out. "

> >

> > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

>

[Guest guest]

, I've been checking in every day to see if you've posted a diagnosis yet.

What a cliffhanger!

I've been seeing a lot of studies lately linking sleep issues to weight gain and

overall health in general. Seems nothing is as simple as we think it is.

> > >

> > > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The eternal weight gain problem - well I haven't lost tonnage over the past

month but my body composition has changed - I have a waist again and seem to be

building muscle rather then storing fat. Same diet, same DASH, same exercise

(rather limited exercise at this point) - but my clothes are looser and my body

measurements are smaller than preadrenalectomy (I sew and make my own patterns

so I have detailed body measurements over several years) - 1 lb of fat takes up

much more room than 1 lb of compact dense muscle. Yes calories in and calories

out are the baseline - but you can't convince me that hormonal levels and

balance do not effect the storage of those calories and the rate of calorie

burn.

> >

> > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

>

[Guest guest]

It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out. Without trying, I've lost 40 pounds since being on Lyme treatment. When I got sick, I weighed 96 pounds after having five babies. My weight climbed and climbed and I couldn't reverse it. I kept meticulous records, much like I did when I controlled sodium such that it was too low to quantitate in urine. On diets of only 800 - 1,000/day, I couldn't lose an ounce. I think you need 1,200 calories to get enough nutrients. My Lyme PA says that when the body normalizes, so does weight. She has a good understanding of how some diseases can cause metabolic derangement. This argument gets old. I finally just started walking out (without paying) on doctors who had no understanding of how bodily systems interact. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of msmith_1928 That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My " calories in " are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight. I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.-msmith1928Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11 >> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

No one is doubting that physical derangements cause changes in how we metabolize and how we retain fats and things. But there is still a basic science, no matter how much the naturopath understands hormonal dreangments.

How could taking in 5 lbs of meals - suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight gain? What is it that ADDS weight inside the body in that case? How could it happen? I can't see it happening. I can see something messing with metabolism, causing it to work slower, like hypothyroid does, so that which we take in is stored and not burned off - but there is still the ability to overcome that with exercise and burn off calories. If we're too tired then this is the case and it is what it is. So the the weight gain is still caused by intake and lack of ability to exercise in that case. But we can see the realtionship. It is still intake/outake the disease just keeps us from working it off, so we grow.

In the lyme case. Why the weight gain, if it has nothing to do with what you eat and how you exercise? and then where is the weight coming from? What building block is it then - regardless of "dereangement" because we can't build something from nothing, deranged or not. What do they say is the mechanism? Is it fat? protein? Sugars? a mysterious something that grows weight?

Respectfully, you don't make sense, or your trying to get us to see something that only you can see or is not there. So at your word you ate perfect. - fanatically perfect - and you don't mention it, but I assume you exercised perfect along with it, because it appears the weight issue was important to you. But you took in little food, and yet you gained weight, not just a little, but apparently ALOT of weight

So your at 96 lbs and then start gaining and gaining, but the fanatical diet and the exercize routine are olympic athlete level, but the weight still piles on. There are a few questions to answer:

1. What made the weight? What materials, as this is a scientific/physiological question, What products, what source of fat,, what anything it was, created more fat to make you more and more heavier? It HAS to be something and where did it come from?

2. When you lost the weight that fast with lyme treatment, why/how did you lose the weight? What derangement did they correct to enable you to lose weight now? And scientifically what was the lyme related derangement that made you hold on to weight despite every effort to lose it?

These answers are important factors to the woman's eternal question of how to lose weight. If we can id some of the derangements that make extra fat grow inside of us, despite an absolute perfect effort in diet and exercise, we'll have opened up a new world.

Bottom line for those of us who do believe in the diet/exercise connection, we also believe there are pitfalls and diseases that make it difficult to do, and it's not that simple all the time. But still believe if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs unless you under cooked the meat and it had a baby grow inside you.

From: Valarie <val@...>Subject: RE: Re: weight gain in PAhyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012, 7:48 PM

It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out. Without trying, I've lost 40 pounds since being on Lyme treatment. When I got sick, I weighed 96 pounds after having five babies. My weight climbed and climbed and I couldn't reverse it. I kept meticulous records, much like I did when I controlled sodium such that it was too low to quantitate in urine. On diets of only 800 - 1,000/day, I couldn't lose an ounce. I think you need 1,200 calories to get enough nutrients. My Lyme PA says that when the body normalizes, so does weight. She has a good understanding of how some diseases can cause metabolic derangement.

This argument gets old. I finally just started walking out (without paying) on doctors who had no understanding of how bodily systems interact.

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of msmith_1928

That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that,

at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight. I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.-msmith1928Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11 >> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

No you misunderstood. You're the clear exception; not the rule. a 20lbs tumor is rare. It affected YOUR problem with weight. But every third person doesn't carry a 20 lbs tuor around. Your the Island and you cant assume that because you had a tumor and insulin resistance issues cause by it that all the scientific rules for everyone are gone now. No, if you continuously take in more than you burn out,, you gain weigt. Some peoples metabolism burns high and fast and they get lucky and eat a lot and never seem to get too fat.

But there are always exceptions and there are always stories like yours, and there's always someone who gets eaten by a shark every year and since it's only 1 person who gets eaten out of billions I still don't suggest sticking your hand in the sharks mouth........there's ALWAYS exceptions. Always.

The guy sitting next to you who takes in 5000 calories a day, and burns off 1000 of those playing on his computer IS the average rule and he is thus obese. He diets down to 2500 per day and the sits on his computer all day and burns off 1000 and now he just gets fatter slower. A diabetic who takes in 5000 calories a day, but strarted jogging and swimming, and took up tennis burns off about 5000 per day, stays at a weight of about 160 and 5'8". They get neither too skinny nor too fat.

From: msmith_1928 <janeray1940@...>Subject: Re: weight gain in PAhyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012, 1:49 PM

, I think you misunderstood. I didn't have a 20 pound tumor; I dropped close to 20 pounds after the tumor was removed. No effort and certainly no exercise involved.I've always tracked calories. I'm small and spend most of my time at a desk job so I rarely go over 1300 a day. When I was at my fattest, I had a (clueless) doctor and (even more clueless) nutritionist monitoring me - I was eating under 1000 calories a day and piling on the pounds. I was not a closet eater (I actually hate eating and think of food as an inconvenience rather than a pleasure). Neither doctor nor nutritionist could figure out the weight gain and the only explanation I ever got at the time was "metabolic syndrome."As for exercise, I've always hiked and done yoga - fat, skinny, didn't matter. I've never felt that it affected my weight either way- as I said, after the surgery when the only exercise I did was walking (SLOWLY!), I still managed to drop 20

pounds.The best explanation I've got is this: tumor made me insulin resistant. Insulin resistance causes weight gain. No more tumor, no more insulin resistance, no more weight gain.And I'm sorry, but conventional wisdom is dead wrong here - when insulin resistance factors into the equation, there's a lot more to it than "calories in, calories out."> >> > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?>

[Guest guest]

First, I don't think anyone has claimed a 20 pound tumor!

Is fluid retention from calories? I am doing a lot of reading about cortisol.

Quoting from Mayo, " cortisol helps regulate your blood pressure and keeps your

cardiovascular system functioning normally. It also helps your body respond to

stress and regulates the way you convert (metabolize) proteins, carbohydrates

and fats in your diet into usable energy. "

Bear with me! When I was researching Spironolactone (Jan 2012) I reported on how

angtagnozing androgen (CYP11B2) caused an increase in cortisol (CYP11B1) due to

their close proximity on the channel. This apparently causes an issue in MDD.

Is it possible that it may also have an effect as described above? In fact, it

may not even be only spironolactone. If I remember correctly, CYP11B1 & 2 came

up a few time during my research in Bethesda. I'll have to go back and look

when I get a minute.

> > >

> > > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

WEIGHT = CALORIES IN -CALORIES BURNED.CE GRIM MDOn Apr 23, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Bingham wrote: No one is doubting that physical derangements cause changes in how we metabolize and how we retain fats and things. But there is still a basic science, no matter how much the naturopath understands hormonal dreangments. How could taking in 5 lbs of meals - suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight gain? What is it that ADDS weight inside the body in that case? How could it happen? I can't see it happening. I can see something messing with metabolism, causing it to work slower, like hypothyroid does, so that which we take in is stored and not burned off - but there is still the ability to overcome that with exercise and burn off calories. If we're too tired then this is the case and it is what it is. So the the weight gain is still caused by intake and lack of ability to exercise in that case. But we can see the realtionship. It is still intake/outake the disease just keeps us from working it off, so we grow. In the lyme case. Why the weight gain, if it has nothing to do with what you eat and how you exercise? and then where is the weight coming from? What building block is it then - regardless of "dereangement" because we can't build something from nothing, deranged or not. What do they say is the mechanism? Is it fat? protein? Sugars? a mysterious something that grows weight? Respectfully, you don't make sense, or your trying to get us to see something that only you can see or is not there. So at your word you ate perfect. - fanatically perfect - and you don't mention it, but I assume you exercised perfect along with it, because it appears the weight issue was important to you. But you took in little food, and yet you gained weight, not just a little, but apparently ALOT of weight So your at 96 lbs and then start gaining and gaining, but the fanatical diet and the exercize routine are olympic athlete level, but the weight still piles on. There are a few questions to answer: 1. What made the weight? What materials, as this is a scientific/physiological question, What products, what source of fat,, what anything it was, created more fat to make you more and more heavier? It HAS to be something and where did it come from? 2. When you lost the weight that fast with lyme treatment, why/how did you lose the weight? What derangement did they correct to enable you to lose weight now? And scientifically what was the lyme related derangement that made you hold on to weight despite every effort to lose it? These answers are important factors to the woman's eternal question of how to lose weight. If we can id some of the derangements that make extra fat grow inside of us, despite an absolute perfect effort in diet and exercise, we'll have opened up a new world. Bottom line for those of us who do believe in the diet/exercise connection, we also believe there are pitfalls and diseases that make it difficult to do, and it's not that simple all the time. But still believe if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs unless you under cooked the meat and it had a baby grow inside you. From: Valarie <val@...>Subject: RE: Re: weight gain in PAhyperaldosteronism Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012, 7:48 PM It is intellectually incomplete to assume calories in, calories out. Without trying, I've lost 40 pounds since being on Lyme treatment. When I got sick, I weighed 96 pounds after having five babies. My weight climbed and climbed and I couldn't reverse it. I kept meticulous records, much like I did when I controlled sodium such that it was too low to quantitate in urine. On diets of only 800 - 1,000/day, I couldn't lose an ounce. I think you need 1,200 calories to get enough nutrients. My Lyme PA says that when the body normalizes, so does weight. She has a good understanding of how some diseases can cause metabolic derangement. This argument gets old. I finally just started walking out (without paying) on doctors who had no understanding of how bodily systems interact. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of msmith_1928 That's what Dr G has said over and over here: calories in, calories out, nothing more complicated than that.However - based on my science experiment of one, I disagree. It's not that simple. When I had the tumor, I gained weight if I even *smelled* carbs - a whopping 50 pounds during the first year I was sick, and another 20+ the next year. Prior to this I had eaten anything I wanted my whole life and never been overweight. Luckily I was diagnosed at this point with celiac disease and fructose intolerance, which resulted in a de facto low-carb diet - I dropped 50 pounds in 3 months with those dietary modifications, but until the adrenalectomy, I never could get rid of that extra 20 or so.When I was sick, I never DASHED, but I am certain that if I had eaten the amount of carbs to get enough K from my diet, I would have been obese in no time.The tumor is gone and so are the unwanted extra 20 pounds. I can truthfully say that, at 46, I weigh the same thing I did in high school. My "calories in" are definitely higher than they were when I had the tumor, and I'm eating more carbs - but no longer gaining weight. I'm convinced that if untreated, PA will cause metabolic derangement that leads to weight gain.-msmith1928Successful left laparoscopic adrenalectomy 10.13.11 >> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you saying calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

This is a bunch of nonsense..... I am an expert in losing and

gaining weight.

I gain on 1400 calories of fruits and mainly carbs. According to my

weight I should eat an average of 2200-2500 calories per day.

I lose a lot of weight eating 2400 calories of protein, fats and

green vegetables.

How do you explain this?

Phyllis

On 4/23/2012 8:37 AM, Clarence Grim wrote:

WEIGHT = CALORIES IN -CALORIES BURNED.

CE GRIM MD

On Apr 23, 2012, at 12:34 AM, Bingham wrote:

No one is doubting that physical

derangements cause changes in how we

metabolize and how we retain fats and

things. But there is still a basic

science, no matter how much the

naturopath understands hormonal

dreangments.

How could taking in 5 lbs of meals

- suddenly turn into 10 lbs of weight

gain? What is it that ADDS weight

inside the body in that case? How

could it happen? I can't see it

happening. I can see something messing

with metabolism, causing it to work

slower, like hypothyroid does, so that

which we take in is stored and not

burned off - but there is still the

ability to overcome that with exercise

and burn off calories. If we're too

tired then this is the case and it is

what it is. So the the weight gain is

still caused by intake and lack of

ability to exercise in that case. But

we can see the realtionship. It is

still intake/outake the disease just

keeps us from working it off, so we

grow.

In the lyme case. Why the weight

gain, if it has nothing to do with

what you eat and how you exercise? and

then where is the weight coming from?

What building block is it then -

regardless of "dereangement" because

we can't build something from nothing,

deranged or not. What do they say is

the mechanism? Is it fat? protein?

Sugars? a mysterious something that

grows weight?

Respectfully, you don't make

sense, or your trying to get us to

see something that only you can see

or is not there. So at your word you

ate perfect. - fanatically perfect -

and you don't mention it, but I

assume you exercised perfect along

with it, because it appears the weight

issue was important to you. But you

took in little food, and yet you

gained weight, not just a little, but

apparently ALOT of weight

So your at 96 lbs and then start

gaining and gaining, but the fanatical

diet and the exercize routine are

olympic athlete level, but the weight

still piles on. There are a few

questions to answer:

1. What made the weight? What

materials, as this is a

scientific/physiological question,

What products, what source of fat,,

what anything it was, created more fat

to make you more and more heavier? It

HAS to be something and where did it

come from?

2. When you lost the weight that

fast with lyme treatment, why/how did

you lose the weight? What derangement

did they correct to enable you to lose

weight now? And scientifically what

was the lyme related derangement that

made you hold on to weight despite

every effort to lose it?

These answers are important factors

to the woman's eternal question of how

to lose weight. If we can id some of

the derangements that make extra fat

grow inside of us, despite an

absolute perfect effort in diet and

exercise, we'll have opened up a new

world.

Bottom line for those of us who do

believe in the diet/exercise

connection, we also believe there are

pitfalls and diseases that make it

difficult to do, and it's not that

simple all the time. But still believe

if you take 5lbs in your gut - you're

not turning that 5lbs into 25 lbs

unless you under cooked the meat and

it had a baby grow inside you.

From: Valarie <val@...>

Subject: RE: Re:

weight gain in PA

hyperaldosteronism

Date: Sunday, April 22, 2012, 7:48 PM

It is

intellectually

incomplete to assume

calories in, calories

out. Without trying,

I've lost 40 pounds

since being on Lyme

treatment. When I got

sick, I weighed 96

pounds after having five

babies. My weight

climbed and climbed and

I couldn't reverse it.

I kept meticulous

records, much like I did

when I controlled sodium

such that it was too low

to quantitate in urine.

On diets of only 800 -

1,000/day, I couldn't

lose an ounce. I think

you need 1,200 calories

to get enough

nutrients. My Lyme PA

says that when the body

normalizes, so does

weight. She has a good

understanding of how

some diseases can cause

metabolic derangement.

This

argument gets old. I

finally just started walking

out (without paying) on

doctors who had no

understanding of how bodily

systems interact.

Val

From:

hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ]

On Behalf Of msmith_1928

That's what Dr G has said

over and over here: calories

in, calories out, nothing more

complicated than that.

However - based on my science

experiment of one, I disagree.

It's not that simple. When I

had the tumor, I gained weight

if I even *smelled* carbs - a

whopping 50 pounds during the

first year I was sick, and

another 20+ the next year.

Prior to this I had eaten

anything I wanted my whole

life and never been

overweight. Luckily I was

diagnosed at this point with

celiac disease and fructose

intolerance, which resulted in

a de facto low-carb diet - I

dropped 50 pounds in 3 months

with those dietary

modifications, but until the

adrenalectomy, I never could

get rid of that extra 20 or

so.

When I was sick, I never

DASHED, but I am certain that

if I had eaten the amount of

carbs to get enough K from my

diet, I would have been obese

in no time.

The tumor is gone and so are

the unwanted extra 20 pounds.

I can truthfully say that, at

46, I weigh the same thing I

did in high school. My

"calories in" are definitely

higher than they were when I

had the tumor, and I'm eating

more carbs - but no longer

gaining weight.

I'm convinced that if

untreated, PA will cause

metabolic derangement that

leads to weight gain.

-msmith1928

Successful left laparoscopic

adrenalectomy 10.13.11

>

> Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I

understand your wt gain

comment, are you saying

calories are the only cause?

[Guest guest]

One answer

How Do They Measure Calories?

Did Mc's have to torch its new Happy Meal?

By Sam Schechner|Posted Wednesday, April 21, 2004, at 5:50 PM ET

Late last week, Mc's announced that it would start offering the Go Active!

Adult Happy Meal to health-conscious fast-food consumers. According to the

company, the meals—which include a salad, bottled water, and a health brochure

penned by Oprah Winfrey's personal trainer—contain between 130 and 550 calories.

How do companies measure the calories in the food they sell?

Graduates of 9th-grade science may remember a very simple answer: Burn the food

to see how much heat it gives off. That energy can be measured in calories;

nutritionally speaking, one calorie is defined as 1,000 times the energy it

takes to heat a gram of water from 14.5 to 15.5 degrees Celsius. But instead of

burning anything, food laboratories often freeze their samples in liquid

nitrogen and then blend them into a fine, monochromatic powder that can then be

used in a variety of chemical analyses. In a Kjeldahl analysis, for example, lab

techs remove nitrogen from the food powder and then use it to calculate the

amount of protein the sample contains. A hexane extraction can gauge the amount

of fat. Carbohydrates are usually measured by difference—they're what is left

over when you remove everything else.

To determine the number of calories contained in these building blocks, however,

food labs rely on conversion factors first assembled more than 100 years ago by

the agricultural chemist Wilbur O. Atwater, who literally did burn things like

beef and corn in a device called the " bomb calorimeter. " While today's

calorimeters look a lot more sophisticated, Atwater's was more or less a

fireproof container sheathed in water and hooked up to a thermometer. He used

it, along with a larger device capable of measuring the heat output of an active

person, to figure out how much usable energy different foods possess.

The idea is that burning, say, a hamburger shows the total energy that hamburger

contains, but it doesn't account for what the human body cannot absorb, nor what

is used in the digestive process. So Atwater derived a set of tables that

specify the practical energy values of different foods, distinguishing, for

example, among different sources of protein. The most recent update to the

conversion tables was published by the U.S. Department of Agriculture in 1973.

These days, the FDA requires that companies print accurate calorie data on food

labels but doesn't say how they must gather the information. It's permissible,

for example, to guesstimate from the USDA's published nutritional data for

thousands of foods, a set of tomes that used to take up four feet on a bookshelf

but is now available online. The database contains figures down to the calorie

(and vitamin, and amino acid) for everything from Spam to foie gras—even

fast-food items.

Even so, many food companies use labs to ensure their numbers are accurate

enough to pass an FDA spot check. Although the USDA database contains several

fast-food salads, for example, Mc's sent the ones in its new Happy Meal

for independent testing.

Bonus Explainer: Food labs often gauge the accuracy of their tests by

simultaneously analyzing government-issue reference materials that contain

certified amounts of particular nutrients. The labs buy the materials—such as

Meat Homogenate ($402 for four 85 g chunks) or Peanut Butter ($501 for three 170

g jars)—from the National Institute of Standards and Technology, and they're

available to anyone with a valid credit card.

> >> >

> >> > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are

> >> you saying calories are the only cause?

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It's baffling to me how you and , the " medical professionals " on this

board, refuse to acknowledge that massive and rapid weight gain can be a part of

the syndrome surrounding PA. It was my first sign that something was amiss and

the reason I sought out a doctor.

It drives me absolutely batty that the focus on PA deals with little beyond HTN

and low K. Oh, and nocturia - something that I never had, by the way.

If the medical professionals I consulted when I first gained weight had thought

to check for PA, I would have had a diagnosis THIRTEEN YEARS earlier than I did.

But I suppose you medical professional (and, interestingly, male) folks will

never believe anything other than I was a lazy pig who sat around eating

bon-bons all day.

> > >

> > > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you

> > saying calories are the only cause?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> No you misunderstood. You're the clear exception; not the rule.

I highly doubt that I'm the clear exception. There are at least 3 or 4 other

women (interestingly, JUST women) here who have reported rapid and unexplained

weight gain as their first sign that something was wrong.

>No, if you continuously take in more than you burn out,, you gain weigt.

So let's see - 1000 calories taken in, a day spent doing normal office-job

activities followed by an hour yoga class and maybe 30 to 45 minutes of walking

= weight gain?

> The guy sitting next to you who takes in 5000 calories a day, and burns off

1000 of those playing on his computer IS the average rule and he is thus obese.

Well, yeah, and it's this guy's fault that you and Dr. G don't believe me and

the other women on this board who knew that weight gain was the first sign that

something was wrong. If it wasn't for this guy, medical professionals wouldn't

automatically assume that everybody who is overweight is a lazy slob.

[Guest guest]

Note WEIGHT = CALORIES IN -CALORIES BURNED. Not all CALORIES IN are CALORIES

BURNED. Not all of us burn the same amount of calories from the same typs of

food.

> > > >

> > > > Dr. Grim, I'm not sure I understand your wt gain comment, are you

> > > saying calories are the only cause?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ms , at my worst I gained 20lbs in one month. I did not overeat

by 70,000 calories that month.

I knew something was wrong by the weight gain with the puffy face.

It was not edema either. I just recently lost 35lbs eating about

2200 calories a day

using the Paleo method. Against my better judgment someone convinced

me Paleo was unsafe and I started weight watchers. I be damned, I

started that

weight watchers eating 1500 calories a day of grain, fruits, etc.

and I am up 10 lbs. And the 10lbs are on on my waist. Now according

to my weight if I eat 2200-2500, without exercise I will maintain,

but that weight watchers diet has me

gaining weight on just 1500 calories. I stopped trying to explain

to ppl who have their heads stuck.....

Phyllis

On 4/23/2012 10:49 AM, msmith_1928 wrote:

>

> No you misunderstood. You're the clear exception; not

the rule.

I highly doubt that I'm the clear exception. There are at

least 3 or 4 other women (interestingly, JUST women) here

who have reported rapid and unexplained weight gain as

their first sign that something was wrong.

>No, if you continuously take in more than you burn

out,, you gain weigt.

So let's see - 1000 calories taken in, a day spent doing

normal office-job activities followed by an hour yoga

class and maybe 30 to 45 minutes of walking = weight gain?

> The guy sitting next to you who takes in 5000

calories a day, and burns off 1000 of those playing on his

computer IS the average rule and he is thus obese.

Well, yeah, and it's this guy's fault that you and Dr. G

don't believe me and the other women on this board who

knew that weight gain was the first sign that something

was wrong. If it wasn't for this guy, medical

professionals wouldn't automatically assume that everybody

who is overweight is a lazy slob.