Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 > > It's nice to hear from such an enlightened male! Are you equally > disgusted with modern male-bashing shows, or do you think > turnabout is fair play? > > I'm not prejudiced - I hate everybody equally! I say bash the hell out of both genders, every race, and all political points of view. The more the merrier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 ---------A little before my time, but I HAVE seen it... and you've got a point, Suze! Although instead of being portrayed as the mature intelligent " superior " one, Ed Asner's character was a blowhard and a bigoted jerk. ----->it was actually Carrol O'Conner. ed asner was in the mary tyler moore show. >>>>Another I thought of was I Love Lucy. Ricky was alway exasperated with her antics and yelling at her. ---->true. >>>>However, a show that did this now would most likely be considered extremely offensive and wouldn't be aired. ---->oh i doubt it. we're in the era of the more offensive the better, it seems. look at the osborns, for instance. LOL then there's that bizarre cartoon show for adults where the little boy dies every episode, and if you think about it, every body's a loser in " married with children " . i'm sure there are many more examples, but i find most of the shows totally idiotic and just don't watch t.v. much, so i can't think of other examples, offhand. oh funny, here's a comingle with another thread. quote: " While Osbourne admits to biting into the head of the live bat during a performance, in his defense, he did think it was plastic. Don't you just hate that when that happens? You think something is plastic and decide to eat it and then it turns out to be a live animal. Life sure can be unpredictable. " http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/5456 how's about someone grows some hydroponic bat heads so ozzie osborne can have at it without actually hurting an animal? <hehe> Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Re: CIVILITY > >>>>a show where the wife was an doofus who couldn't > do anything right and the husband constantly yelled at her and > called her an idiot would be an considered an outrage. > > ---->actually i think it was one of the most successful shows of all time, > it was called " all in the family " ...perhaps before your time. ---------A little before my time, but I HAVE seen it... and you've got a point, Suze! Although instead of being portrayed as the mature intelligent " superior " one, Ed Asner's character was a blowhard and a bigoted jerk. Another I thought of was I Love Lucy. Ricky was alway exasperated with her antics and yelling at her. However, a show that did this now would most likely be considered extremely offensive and wouldn't be aired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 --- In , " Suze Fisher " > > how's about someone grows some hydroponic bat heads so ozzie > osborne can have at it without actually hurting an animal? <hehe> See, now that's what I'm talking about! We're going to have you assimilated yet! Just let your mind run wild, the possibilities are endless. How about disposable hydroponic husbands and boyfriends? You gotta be able to see some possibilities in that. ;-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 > > I'm not prejudiced - I hate everybody equally! > I say bash the hell out of both genders, every > race, and all political points of view. The > more the merrier! Actually I forgot to include " all sexualities " - gets on my nerves every bit as much as he does those of your average hetero male! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 --- In , " wtsdv " <liberty@p...> wrote: >I'm not prejudiced - I hate everybody equally! > I say bash the hell out of both genders, every > race, and all political points of view. The > more the merrier! ---------LOL! I have to mostly agree with you (except the hating everybody part:-)). I believe sensitivity and appropriateness should be considerations, but also that we all need to laugh at ourselves, and if one group is fair game, so should we all be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 >>>>See, now that's what I'm talking about! We're going to have you assimilated yet! ---->what, are you a ventriliquest and brandon is your dummy? LOL because i recall *him* using the word " assimilation " . >>>>>Just let your mind run wild, the possibilities are endless. How about disposable hydroponic husbands and boyfriends? You gotta be able to see some possibilities in that. ;-D ----->LOL! not for *me* thanks, but i'm quite sure there'd be lots of takers! how about disposable hydroponic mothers-in-law? LOL now isn't that sexist? <WEG> Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 In a message dated 11/2/03 11:14:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, s.fisher22@... writes: > ----->i know i shouldn't even bother, but this IS obviously > tongue-in-cheek, > right? huh? no, i'm serious. i love grrrrrrrrrrrls with power wearing hot skimpy clothes. > >>>but decided against it because I was afraid of getting some feminist > rant > about considering identification with the female to be derogatory. > > ---->hmmm...so wonder how that differs from a intelligent, reasoned feminist > argument about considering identification with the female to be > derogatory pretty much the same thing. ....oh right...a woman's well reasoned argument is automatically a > rant if it challenges the patriarchical view. ho hum. i guess i should just > be quiet and let y'all men handle the well-reasoned intelligent arguments > while we wimen just rant ...all crazed out by our out of control hormones. > ;-) that's a good idea. ;-) > ----->actually, i think you might consider stopping while you still have > any > points left at all. LOL! hmm, should I have said you're a much (admirably) stronger woman than ? (confused...) Chris _________ >---->actually i think it was one of the most successful shows of all time, >it was called " all in the family " ...perhaps before your time. Before my time? No way! That's one of the best shows of all time! That show however a) is not an example of current stereotypes but OLD ones and is clearly mockingly critical of Archie, as well as the role of his wife, which I can see so clearly present in my grandparent's generation, so I suppose has some " feminist " elements if you will. Chris _______ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 In a message dated 11/2/2003 11:17:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, s.fisher22@... writes: > ---->hmmm...so wonder how that differs from a intelligent, reasoned feminist > argument about considering identification with the female > to be > derogatory By the way, while your rant was by no means unintelligent, it just happened to be the wrong one. Since my initial post had nothing whatsoever to do with PMS or the way male conceptions of PMS are used to denigrate or subjigate women but rather had the key components of a) making fun of Canadians call a woman and since a) making fun of Canadians is without doubt both socially acceptable and ethically impeccable leaving the primary object vulnerable to intellgient rants being calling a woman than the appropriate intelligent rant would be about the suffering both men and women who deviate from gender roles go through, and the poor ethics of denigrating such deviation, especially since men who deviate from gender roles suffer significantly greater hardship than women who have PMS. That said, either rant can properly be termed a " rant " regardless of its intelligence due to its tangential characteristics and its soapbox manner of style. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 With much of its dairyland in Quebec, and Quebec being still heavy in French culture, why not stand beside Louis Pasteur's pasteurization, a Frenchman? Anyone know if France is the same? Raw, aged cheeses AFAIK are ok to be produced in both countries and are imported here. Wanita >Canada is much more tyrranical than even the US about raw milk, hence 's >lack of access (by implication hence his " sensitivity " :-) ). According to >Ron Shmid, if you even *give* someone raw milk for free in Canada you can go to >jail for a considerable amount of time and get fined something numbering the >millions but I forget how much. Two of the people in our raw milk drive are >former Canadians and have verified the rumors of raw milk tyranny across the bor >der. > >Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 > I'm not prejudiced - I hate everybody equally! At least it opens the door to humour. A dufus is a dufus doesn't matter if it's a dingbat housewife or a loafy plumber or an airhead newage girl or the obligatory weird gay guy, you just gotta laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Wanita Sears wrote -- <<Anyone know if France is the same? Raw, aged cheeses AFAIK are ok to be produced in both countries and are imported here.>> Wanita, during our August visit to south-west France it seemed raw cheeses were available everywhere and not just aged ones... however, only managed to find raw butter at a Sunday farmers market... the interesting thing was that there was very little variety of fresh milk in shops and supermarkets... seems like the adults only drink milk in coffee and children with breakfast cereal... there was more UHT milk incl. organic available than regular fresh milk... even more popular [judging by range on offer] were various yoghurts and dairy based desserts... maybe it's to do with the area we've visited... very rural and remote... fresh milk won't last long but all those other dairy products would. Dedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Well some clarifications are in order I guess. I've made numerous serious comments in this thread and apparently my mixing them in indiscriminately with absurd statements, what was intended to be humor, and nonsense I've caused some confusion. If anyone was wondering: I absolutely think Charlie's Angels are hot. No, I don't think this makes me a feminist. The absurdity should be apparent. My comment on PMS to was exactly what I seriously think: some women have problems with extreme mood swings and they have a responsibility to try to avoid taking this out on other people and other peopel have a responsibility to be accomodating. I do not believe is a woman. I do not disrespect Canadians. My statements about All in the Family and Home Improvement were serious. I do not like making anyone angry, and the comment about feminists being cute when they're angry was intended for irony's sake alone, the wit being dichotomy between the empowerment of feminism and the belittling of the description " cute, " amalgamated into a paradox. I'll be happy to continue the discussion in private or on the nt-politics list with Suze or anyone else... I guess the serious things that can be discussed are gender and culture? I'm not really sure what in this thread has constituted a serious discussion outside of the men-being-idiots-on-tv issue. And for the record I do not actually have a strong oppositition to pre-marital circumcision of gay black rappers. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 In a message dated 11/3/03 3:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, heidis@... writes: > How about the Simpsons? Or ? (a cartoon). For some > reason, on TV, the men are these angry, yelling, stupid > people. Now the feminist part of me says " what's new? " > but I point it out to my son, who I'd really like to > have a better self image. However, it might have to > do with the male psyche too -- he LOVES seeing other > guys be stupid. I like seeing other guys be stupid too and frankly this falls right in line with All in the Family, as Archie Bunker was the epitome of stupid and clearly intended to be such. And that's probably one of my all-time favorite shows. But it seems quite clear to me that there is a bias in favor of males being doofus's, and there is CERTAINLY a common perception that testosterone is the " stupid hormone. " Just look at how " brains " and " brawn " are so commonly contrasted in expressions like " he has more muscles than brains " as if you wouldn't fall apart if you didn't, and if somehow you have to be a wimp to be smart or you lose your brain power once you gain some muscle. While Marge might not be the brightest bulb on the tree, it should be immediately obvious to anyone who's seen the show more than once or even once that certainly is the brightest bulb on the tree, while all the male figures are the braindead-fat-pig-doofus, the religious softy, the bully, the dork, and the wimp with his finger up his nose. The most alpha-male sort of guy on the show was Phil Hartman's character, but he is clearly portrayed as a superficial person with no brains or depth whatsoever. So thus is perpetuated the stereotype that men tend to fall somewhere in between two extremes on a spectrum of religious softy and fat pig, while the few select men who achieve beyond this are the guys who look good and talk good and have no depth. I don't watch a real lot of tv, but I do have basic familiarity with about 50-60% of the shows currently on, and I see lots of strong female characters who have the leading roles, are successful and intelligent etc. There are lots of roles with good men to, I'm not claiming there aren't. But the above sort of stereotype is definitely out there, and the old stereotypes about women are just not around anymore. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 >>>>By the way, while your rant was by no means unintelligent, it just happened to be the wrong one. ------>it wasn't even a " rant " to begin with, that's your misconception. i intended only to add a minor point to your original post, wherein i clearly stated i didn't think *you* meant what you said that way at all, i was merely pointing out the PMS thing is often used that way. i had no idea you'd turn it into a long drawn out thread, with all kinds of inaccuracies. had i known that i wouldn't have bothered! really, beyond my original post, this has been a massive waste of time. how about we take this offlist if you are intent on continuing on with it? Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 >Another I thought of was I Love Lucy. Ricky >was alway exasperated with her antics and yelling at her. >However, a show that did this now would most likely be >considered extremely offensive and wouldn't be aired. > > How about the Simpsons? Or ? (a cartoon). For some reason, on TV, the men are these angry, yelling, stupid people. Now the feminist part of me says " what's new? " but I point it out to my son, who I'd really like to have a better self image. However, it might have to do with the male psyche too -- he LOVES seeing other guys be stupid. As for the yelling at women being offensive -- personally I guess I don't find it so, because it's such silly yelling that it makes the yeller look like an idiot. Marge Simpson might be a picked-on housewife, but she also manages to hold together the family with some rather dysfunctional men in it (the girls are all smart and social ...) -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Oh. It just occurred to me that the most ambiguous statement I made in terms of seriousness was the one about the appropriate rant. There was an element of seriousness to that post, but I basically wrote it for the sake of playing the philosophy game which I thought in this case was an excercise in futility for fun. Obviously there is no " right " or " wrong " response to a post, because someone can bring up a tangential subject instead of making a direct response if they so choose. That said I believe what I stated in that email, with the above exception. I never took the defending-myself-against-the-accusation-of-sexism stuff seriously at all, and Suze clearly posted several times that she wasn't accusing me of such, so if I continued to defend myself against this charge which was over and over made clear to not be levelled against me, I was doing it for the sake of making stupid convoluted arguments. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 > how about we take this >offlist if you > are intent on continuing on with it? Sure if you want, but as yet I don't think I've made a single serious comment on this subject and I think it would quickly lose it's fun offlist ;-) I just think feminists are cute when they're angry. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Thanks, Dedy! Is UHT milk like the double walled soy milk rectangular containers here? Any non soy milk here in UHT has extra processes like ultra pasteurization or ultra homogenization for a very long keeping life. Is there not much refrigeration where you were or maybe because of low milk consumption UHT is better packaging? Wanita >during our August visit to south-west France it seemed raw cheeses were available everywhere and not just aged ones... however, only managed to find raw butter at a Sunday farmers market... the interesting thing was that there was very little variety of fresh milk in shops and supermarkets... seems like the adults only drink milk in coffee and children with breakfast cereal... there was more UHT milk incl. organic available than regular fresh milk... even more popular [judging by range on offer] were various yoghurts and dairy based desserts... maybe it's to do with the area we've visited... very rural and remote... fresh milk won't last long but all those other dairy products would. > >Dedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 >>>>Well some clarifications are in order I guess. ----->you know, it would've been better imo if you just dropped it. beyond my initial incidental mentioning that the PMS thing is sometimes used in a sexist manner wherein i said i was sure *you* didn't mean it that way, the entire thread has been pretty idiotic. i could care less whether you are a raving sexist or not, the only thing that i really took issue with was that you seemed to spend a great deal of effort trying to paint me as a humorless angry feminist. obviously you know i'm anti-sexist (my definition of a feminist) just as much as i'm anti-racist. do i ever get angry? sure i get angry. sexism has had a profound negative impact on my life, it's not something you can just brush under the table. although sometimes you just have to ignore it because of its prevalence....you have to select your battles carefully. so you can call me a feminist and you can call me angry (at least sometimes), but " humorless " ?????? THAT's where i draw the line!!! anyone who calls me humorless is itching for a fight...meet you on jerry springer! grrrrrrummmpphhh! Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Re: Re: CIVILITY Well some clarifications are in order I guess. I've made numerous serious comments in this thread and apparently my mixing them in indiscriminately with absurd statements, what was intended to be humor, and nonsense I've caused some confusion. If anyone was wondering: I absolutely think Charlie's Angels are hot. No, I don't think this makes me a feminist. The absurdity should be apparent. My comment on PMS to was exactly what I seriously think: some women have problems with extreme mood swings and they have a responsibility to try to avoid taking this out on other people and other peopel have a responsibility to be accomodating. I do not believe is a woman. I do not disrespect Canadians. My statements about All in the Family and Home Improvement were serious. I do not like making anyone angry, and the comment about feminists being cute when they're angry was intended for irony's sake alone, the wit being dichotomy between the empowerment of feminism and the belittling of the description " cute, " amalgamated into a paradox. I'll be happy to continue the discussion in private or on the nt-politics list with Suze or anyone else... I guess the serious things that can be discussed are gender and culture? I'm not really sure what in this thread has constituted a serious discussion outside of the men-being-idiots-on-tv issue. And for the record I do not actually have a strong oppositition to pre-marital circumcision of gay black rappers. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 > so you can call me a feminist and you can call me angry (at least > sometimes), but " humorless " ?????? THAT's where i draw the line!!! anyone who > calls me humorless is itching for a fight...meet you on jerry springer! > > grrrrrrummmpphhh! Suze I'll call and make the appointment you just find something trailer trash to where and I'll see you at the brawl. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.