Re: civility

[Guest guest]

I didn't think about forwarding it to you off-list,as moderator, Leo . Thanks for letting me know of this possibility.

Abutilon

on 11/23/01 11:16 AM, leoelfie@... at leoelfie@... wrote:

I agree with the concerns expressed below. I find Jim's post is

abusive, and particularly of concern because it was sent privately in

response to a general post. This is like seeing a person's name

in the newspaper, then calling them at home and harassing them about

some public statement they made.

That can be terrifying. Members should feel safe about the tone of

private posts they receive. Any member suffering such abuse is welcome

to forward it to me off-list for necessary action.

List members may also refer to my previous posts entitled " civility " .

Thanks for your help in drawing this to my attention.

Leo

[Guest guest]

I don't understand why some people feel the need to insult those

who have a different opinion, instead of expressing their point of

view in a civil and rational manner.

As Rick said, we are here to learn. Let's keep this forum

informative and friendly

Vivian

-------

> > >

> > > why don't everyone get off of the

> borax

> > BS, i

> > > am tired of reading about it.

> > > --- Jim

> > > --- jimf7@e...

> > > --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. >>>

> >

> > Sorry Jim, Some of us are here to learn. I use Borax all the

time &

> > would like to learn more. You lose....Rick

[Guest guest]

Boy will I second (or third) that! LOL!!!

Elainie

[Guest guest]

First you sed sum of us wuz fashists or faseshus or something like

that, now your calling us civil. Shesh watts next???

;-))))))

> A couple people have pointed out the unique character of this list

and the

> people on it recently, 's recent post, and DMM and

Idol's posts

> about the uniqueness of the civility on this list.

>

> Just thought I'd point out that Price found the folks to be eating

the

> traditional diet to be much better behaved, in addition to all the

rest. Maybe

> that's showing up here :-)

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

PS - before you're sure you want to use such flattering terminology

you might want to look up a little faseshus and moderately civilized

thread called; OREOS ;-P

DMM

> First you sed sum of us wuz fashists or faseshus or something like

> that, now your calling us civil. Shesh watts next???

>

> ;-))))))

>

>

>

> --- In , ChrisMasterjohn@a...

wrote:

> > A couple people have pointed out the unique character of this

list

> and the

> > people on it recently, 's recent post, and DMM and

> Idol's posts

> > about the uniqueness of the civility on this list.

> >

> > Just thought I'd point out that Price found the folks to be

eating

> the

> > traditional diet to be much better behaved, in addition to all

the

> rest. Maybe

> > that's showing up here :-)

> >

> > Chris

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Quoting " Dr. Marasco " <mmarasco@...>:

> First you sed sum of us wuz fashists or faseshus or something like

> that, now your calling us civil. Shesh watts next???

Who says fascists can't be civil?

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

well, primative people, just like wild animals, come to blows in

rare cicumstances. Usually lack of territory, food, or women. In

other words their very survival is at risk. Price talked about this

or that group being good wariors i think. Fighting is a part of

life/nature in extreme circumstances. But I do think poor

physical/emotional development can lead to excessive/unnatural

conflict. But the largest cause of excessive/unnatural conflict is

of course, uh oh, excessive government. The life blood of

governments is conflict and war. The system justifies its existance

by keeping us fighting. Peace and order is natural, chaos and

conflict is created. I just had to say it -joe

> > > A couple people have pointed out the unique character of this

> list

> > and the

> > > people on it recently, 's recent post, and DMM and

> > Idol's posts

> > > about the uniqueness of the civility on this list.

> > >

> > > Just thought I'd point out that Price found the folks to be

> eating

> > the

> > > traditional diet to be much better behaved, in addition to all

> the

> > rest. Maybe

> > > that's showing up here :-)

> > >

> > > Chris

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

---Hey Joe.

In , " Joe " <jzbozzi@y...> wrote:

> well, primative people, just like wild animals, come to blows in

> rare cicumstances. Usually lack of territory, food, or women. >

by keeping us fighting. Peace and order is natural, chaos and

> conflict is created. I just had to say it -joe

>

> Hey Joe with or without the women? I just had to ask. Dennis

>

>

> > > > A couple people have pointed out the unique character of this

> > list

> > > and the

> > > > people on it recently, 's recent post, and DMM and

> > > Idol's posts

> > > > about the uniqueness of the civility on this list.

> > > >

> > > > Just thought I'd point out that Price found the folks to be

> > eating

> > > the

> > > > traditional diet to be much better behaved, in addition to

all

> > the

> > > rest. Maybe

> > > > that's showing up here :-)

> > > >

> > > > Chris

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

When I've been on the diet forums the people who talk the loudest against

eating meat are the most argumentative and vituperative people on the lists.

Makes sense.

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

A couple people have pointed out the unique character of this list and the

people on it recently, 's recent post, and DMM and Idol's posts

about the uniqueness of the civility on this list.

Just thought I'd point out that Price found the folks to be eating the

traditional diet to be much better behaved, in addition to all the rest.

Maybe

that's showing up here :-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

Quoting Judith A <judith@...>:

> When I've been on the diet forums the people who talk the loudest against

> eating meat are the most argumentative and vituperative people on the

> lists.

To be fair, I'm not sure that this is due so much to malnutrition (although

that may well play a part) as to the fact that for them it's more about

politics than about science. If they want to malnourish themselves, it's no

skin off my nose, but they believe that murder is on the menu at my house.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

>well, primative people, just like wild animals, come to blows in

>rare cicumstances. Usually lack of territory, food, or women.

The woman who wrote the " Continuum Concept " mentioned

that the people she lived with were very, very kind with one

another and amazingly happy and well-adjusted, which she

felt had to do with their very good babyhoods (being carried

around by their Moms and others, constantly, among other things).

However, she also made the point that they didn't have qualms

about killing men in other tribes ... because the other tribes

were not considered " human " . I've read about that attitude a lot

in tribal cultures. There is no doubt that they were and probably

still are less neurotic than we are, but that didn't necessarily

translate into " peace on earth " .

In the studies that have studied

violence and lack thereof, a key factor seems to be " how big is

the group you consider 'your group' " . " Your group " can be just

YOU (in the extreme case of a sociopath) or your family, or your

tribe, or your country, or your species or in the other extreme

case, all living creatures. New Scientist had a great article about

that a few months ago, by a guy who grew up in some country

that was very war-torn on ethnic lines.

That said, since we've changed our diet, MY family is a LOT

more well adjusted and peaceful! I suspect that is one

reason this group is more peaceful. The other reasons may

have to do with the fact we feel like " a group " (we share an

identity) and also that this group is more intelligent than

average.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>> Just thought I'd point out that Price found the folks to be eating the

traditional diet to be much better behaved, in addition to all the rest. Maybe

that's showing up here :-) <<

This is true of dogs, too, when they are switched to a more appropriate diet - I

often notice hyperness and some other behavior problems simply disappear.

Christie

[Guest guest]

What I love about this list is that we are concerned about the science AND

politics of food and eating. My choice to buy very expensive raw grassfed dairy

from a small family farmer is, first and foremost, a health decision. However,

the fact that he treats his animals humanely, doesn't use nasty chemicals that

pollute the environment, and isn't part of the agribusiness I detest all figure

into this choice. If the vegans knew how soy is ravaging the earth and our

bodies all over the globe, they might think twice about what constitutes truly

compassionate food choices.

----- Original Message -----

To be fair, I'm not sure that this is due so much to malnutrition (although

that may well play a part) as to the fact that for them it's more about

politics than about science. If they want to malnourish themselves, it's no

skin off my nose, but they believe that murder is on the menu at my house.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

I didn't mean to imply that primitive people were without violence or

that everyone (or anyone) on this list (or among " primitives " )is a

perfect person.

I think you can safely separate, for some purposes at least, rational

and purposeful violence, from, say, neuroticism. Tribal warfare and

political peace are more about ideology than the mental competence and

integrity of the individual. Whereas the ability to carry on a

respectful conversation, or the ability to operate functionally within

a group, are matters of the mental/emotional/psychological integrity

of the individual which can, in my view, be impacted to a very large

extent through nutritional means.

As to Price's observation, I was speaking to his observation of how

people acted within their group, which did correlate to their diet.

Chris

[Guest guest]

, destruction of the rain forest rose 40% last year from soy farming!

Elainie

[Guest guest]

Well said. I agree!

-- Heidi

>I think you can safely separate, for some purposes at least, rational

>and purposeful violence, from, say, neuroticism. Tribal warfare and

>political peace are more about ideology than the mental competence and

>integrity of the individual. Whereas the ability to carry on a

>respectful conversation, or the ability to operate functionally within

>a group, are matters of the mental/emotional/psychological integrity

>of the individual which can, in my view, be impacted to a very large

>extent through nutritional means.

[Guest guest]

I am catching up on posts.

> If they want to malnourish themselves, it's no

> skin off my nose, but they believe that murder is on the menu at my house.

This cracked me up because of our recent goose dealings.

When the goose attacked my daughter, it was penned up until we could deal

with it. Later we went out and marked it with a " D " for Dinner on its

forehead and let it out to join the other geese. As the day progressed we

came up with all sorts of meaning for that D...

Doomed

Death at Dawn

Disassemble

Dispatch

Delicious

: )

Rhea

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/1/03 6:13:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,

liberty@... writes:

> >What attack and what veil?

>

> Well like when you implied that he, though not necessarily

> only he, might be suffering from P.M.S. :-D See below.

That's not an attack. PMS is a at worst a physiological problem, not a

character trait.

Chris

;-)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/1/03 10:06:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ---->the " oh she must have PMS " thing is also a standard sexist remark to

> " keep women in their place " ie; out of positions of power where the big bad

> PMS might make them irrational raving lunatics rendering them unable to make

> logical or rational decisions. but i'm sure chris didn't mean it that way.

> and i believe it IS a physiological problem, most likely suffered by women

> who are not in optimal health (myself included). i'm guessing WAP's

> primitives didn't have it.

Right but within the context the interpretation of a sexist remark against

women is rather unreasonable.

(trying to get his tongue out of his cheek)

[Guest guest]

>

> If you're having monthly problems or forgot to drink your

> raw milk this morning, it shouldn't be taken out on other

> people on the list.

[Guest guest]

Suze-

Yes, it is, but the stereotype didn't come out of nowhere. Luckily it's

just a product of modern diets, though, so if we can get people eating

right (and fix our soil) both the actual phenomenon of PMS and the ill-used

and perhaps overstated conception of it should be a thing of the past.

>the " oh she must have PMS " thing is also a standard sexist remark to

> " keep women in their place " ie; out of positions of power where the big bad

>PMS might make them irrational raving lunatics rendering them unable to make

>logical or rational decisions.

-

[Guest guest]

> Well like when you implied that he, though not necessarily

> only he, might be suffering from P.M.S. :-D See below.

>>>>That's not an attack. PMS is a at worst a physiological problem, not a

character trait.

---->the " oh she must have PMS " thing is also a standard sexist remark to

" keep women in their place " ie; out of positions of power where the big bad

PMS might make them irrational raving lunatics rendering them unable to make

logical or rational decisions. but i'm sure chris didn't mean it that way.

and i believe it IS a physiological problem, most likely suffered by women

who are not in optimal health (myself included). i'm guessing WAP's

primitives didn't have it.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>>>Yes, it is, but the stereotype didn't come out of nowhere. Luckily it's

just a product of modern diets,

---->right, similar to other phsyiological disorders, and also mental

disorders for that matter.

>>>>though, so if we can get people eating

right (and fix our soil) both the actual phenomenon of PMS and the ill-used

and perhaps overstated conception of it should be a thing of the past.

---->the only people i've ever seen overuse it are men who are afraid of

powerful women (and in some instances, women who are afraid of powerful

women).

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze-

I've seen it used sometimes when it obviously didn't apply, but I've also

seen many, many people (mostly women, but more and more men too) insist

there's no such thing as PMS, which is plainly absurd.

>the only people i've ever seen overuse it are men who are afraid of

>powerful women (and in some instances, women who are afraid of powerful

>women).

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>>Right but within the context the interpretation of a sexist remark

against

women is rather unreasonable.

----->well, i said i didn't think you meant it like that, but frankly

whenever a man says that, i can hear a collective groan from women who've

heard it all too often in that context (myself included).

>>>>(trying to get his tongue out of his cheek)

---->that's what you get for overexercising your mouth. LOL

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------