Re: diet advice needed

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>I agree unless the tooth is dead. There's really no way to know at all

>without getting them checked.

Really! Never having gone in for dentistry, I didn't know it could be dead

without obvious visual (and olfactory) signs. You mean a tooth can be

normal white or off-white for an extended period of time after dying? That

seems counterintuitive enough that I'll actually remember it. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

Lynn-

>Now, AVOIDING the problem in the first place--that's an area that's up

>for debate! Don't crash diet is the best advice I can give on that

>one from my research.

I never suggested avoiding the problem. I specifically recommended that

Marcella get it checked out.

However, I remain skeptical that her gall bladder would actually have to

come out, and I know that the admonition against crash dieting is not

strictly accurate. Many people have indeed had their gall bladders out

after very rapid weight loss, but AFAIK those were all people who followed

a more or less conventional weight-loss strategy -- IOW fat and calorie

reduction as opposed to carb reduction and eating to satiation. Many

people have lost weight just as quickly on a low-carb regimen without

irritating their gall bladders at all.

-

[Guest guest]

On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 04:24 PM, Idol wrote:

> Lynn-

>

>> Now, AVOIDING the problem in the first place--that's an area that's up

>> for debate! Don't crash diet is the best advice I can give on that

>> one from my research.

>

> I never suggested avoiding the problem. I specifically recommended

> that

> Marcella get it checked out.

No, no, I meant not getting gallstones in the first place--avoiding

getting gallstones.

> However, I remain skeptical that her gall bladder would actually have

> to

> come out, and I know that the admonition against crash dieting is not

> strictly accurate. Many people have indeed had their gall bladders out

> after very rapid weight loss, but AFAIK those were all people who

> followed

> a more or less conventional weight-loss strategy -- IOW fat and calorie

> reduction as opposed to carb reduction and eating to satiation. Many

> people have lost weight just as quickly on a low-carb regimen without

> irritating their gall bladders at all.

Point taken.

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

[Guest guest]

>> I'm not making any claim for the accuracy of this statement and am certainly

not claiming I can give dietary advice to someone with this problem, just

pointing out that the low-fat recommendations may be misguided and this other

theory exists. <<

I think the only benefit of the low fat advice is to temporarily stop the gall

bladder from spasming until you can find a more permanent solution. I damaged my

body hideously in my attempts to save my gall bladder, eating only 12 grams of

fat a day for an extended period of time. And I was a vegetarian. Can you say

" carbohydrate poisoning " ? Can you say " insulin resistance " ?

I agree that eating a diet high in healthy fats is good medicine for the gall

bladder. I just think that it causes the gall bladder to spasm, which is painful

and potentially dangerous for someone with gall bladder disease/stones of a

certain severity.

So, I don't think anyone is going to say that eating fat CAUSES gall bladder

disease. I think it can just irritate an already-highly-compromised gall

bladder.

Christie

[Guest guest]

> So, I don't think anyone is going to say that eating fat CAUSES gall

> bladder disease. I think it can just irritate an

> already-highly-compromised gall bladder.

Just so.

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

[Guest guest]

> Oh, I know folks don't say that. But Tom Cowan believes eating

> enormous

> quantites of animal fat and cholesterol REVERSES gall bladder disease.

That may be correct, I mean, the cholesterol-hoarding theory makes

sense to me. But I don' t know if I would've survived the cure; I think

I would've jumped off a bridge before I got better.

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

[Guest guest]

>Alternatively, take your own stuff and make a point of eating

>it at the same time as everyone else to show how seriously you take

>your own health (if you take it seriously, then they should)

I do this at most family get-togethers: my relatives are not

inconsiderate, but cooking gluten free is just difficult at best.

Anyway, I usually bring something like cookies or pecan

pie -- which usually takes over, because most people don't

actually COOK anymore. Bringing your own food makes

three statements: 1. That you care about your health (and theirs:

by all means share it!) and 2. That cooking " well " also tastes

better and 3. That you are not doing this to be self-flagellating

and monastic, you are doing just fine thank you!

When people hear the word " diet " they think you are into

self-denial or something, and try to talk you out of it, but

once they taste the difference they tend to come around.

I wouldn't recommend bringing boiled tongue though ;-)

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote:

> However, Tom Cowan presented his theory that gall stones form from a

> deficiency of animal fat and cholesterol, as a way of preserving the

cholesterol in a

> recent Wise Traditions and suggested eating lots and lots of it. He said he's

> treated people with this advice, and has observed two cases where gall stones

> were reversed through diet alone by eating enormous quantities of animal fat

> and cholesterol.

Thanks for the info. Did he say how much is the enormous quantities?

Roman

[Guest guest]

>> Perhaps

this could be more or less dangerous depending on how far along it is. But he

is saying that low-fat or cholesterol deficiency is exactly what can cause gall

stones. That the gall bladder creates gall stones as a way of conserving

cholesterol just like in starvation mode you create fat to conserve calories

rather than expending them. And if you don't eat, sometimes eating more or more

regularly can alone help you lose some weight. <<

I think that is very true, I don't dispute it at all. I simply know that the

unbelievable pain of a diseased, stone-loaded gallbladder contracting after

eating fat (anything more than 10 grams at a time makes it spasm) is just so

severe it's not a practical strategy once the damage is done.

I'm sure there are those who can reverse their gallbladder disease. I couldn't.

And eating fat might have helped me at some point but it was impossible in the

end. The pain was too severe. By " severe " I mean doubled over screaming.

Christie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/13/03 11:45:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

romeml@... writes:

> Thanks for the info. Did he say how much is the enormous quantities?

It's in the Spring 2003 Wise Traditions.

He doesn't give speciic ammounts.

" So what should you do? First, do not believe that your gall bladder is

diseased! Second, give yor body what it needs, in this case more cholesterol.

Once your body is convinced that you are serious and will provide it with a

steady stream of cholesterol, which it desperately needs to stay alive, it will

give up the flawed strategy of storing extra, the stones will dissolve and you

will be well again. I know of two people who adopted this strategy, and within

a year their stones completely dissolved. Actually, you might want to thank

your gall bladder for devising such an innovative strategy for keeping you

alive until you learned how to eat in a way that provides your body with the

materials it needs to be healthy.

" The best way to provide your gall bladder with cholesterol is to eat plenty

of animal fats. If you eat a lot of vegetable oils and trans fats, the gall

bladder is likely to become inflamed. "

Tom Cowan in as MD and supervises patients, some of whom presumably have gall

stones. Presumably he is not deliberately trying to kill them, so I wouldn't

necessarily dismiss his comments/observations off-hand.

Chris

[Guest guest]

I would try the Liver/Gallbladder cleanse on curezone.com before

you go to the medical establishment and they remove your gallbladder.

Many galbladders have been saved by it.

Re: diet advice needed

> had heard recommended to get in alot of raw

> fats. I had raw cream, butter, a little coconut oil, a raw egg yolk

> and some

> frozen strawberries and stevia. I spent hours, most of the day, in

> pain and had

> diarrhea. My mom actually came over to watch the kids so my husband

> could go to

> work. Ok, so that is really not normal. I guess you have a point. I had

> forgotten about that. Could that be gallbladder? I just thought it was

> an allergic

> reaction to something I had eaten.

Marcella, this is a classic case of cholecystitis--gallbladder

trouble--I'm telling you, you've got to get an ultrasound asap before

you end up in the ER. I am betting you have that gallbladder removed

before the end of the year. THIS IS NOT AN ALLERGY.

Lynn S.

[Guest guest]

> That may be correct, I mean, the cholesterol-hoarding theory makes

> sense to me. But I don' t know if I would've survived the cure; I

think

> I would've jumped off a bridge before I got better.

>

I have a question, after following this thread with interest...

Why would the body preserve cholesterol in a gall stone? How can it

access that store when it needs it?

Jo (who worried when someone described the symptoms of gall stones...

I currently have a pain in the middle of my chest just under the

breast bone! But it feels muscular, and I must try not to be such a

hypochondriac!! lol!)

[Guest guest]

<<< Why did he take Pepto Bismol?

Pepto helps heal damage to the gut. It also kills " bad " bacteria

(and maybe the good ones too), so then the probiotics you

are eating can get a better foothold.>>>

So if I appear to have gluten intolerance should I take Pepto Bismol?

Marcella

[Guest guest]

>>(who worried when someone described the symptoms of gall stones...

I currently have a pain in the middle of my chest just under the

breast bone! But it feels muscular, and I must try not to be such a

hypochondriac!! lol!) <<

I hate to tell you this... but that is exactly how mine always felt: Like a

muscle pain.

It would be good to get it checked out. Hopefully you are fine.

Christie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/14/03 4:56:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jopollack2001@... writes:

> Why would the body preserve cholesterol in a gall stone? How can it

> access that store when it needs it?

I don't know, but if I'd have to wager a guess, it would be that a spherical

shape is the best way to minimize its surface area, making it less vulnerable

to being used, or to chemical reactions in general.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> <<<Marcella

> Ihave to pipe up here. This is something I feel very stronly about.

> Quite frankly, how dare they!!!! If you are good enough to ask them

> to respect your food choices, then they should try to cater for you.

> You are family, after all, not an unwanted guest or a stranger. >>>

I am not really family to them. I kinda have the inlaws from hell. They don't

outwardly appear that way and they can be really nice to other people but my

mil hated me the first time she met me and has worked really hard to make

things miserable. She is even mean to my children. She totally denies it. But it

is kind of a non-issue visiting them. I have said I would never step foot in

their home again because of poor treatment to my son. And short of their funeral

I don't plan on going back BUT they come down to ton at least once a

year and I will go and stay with family there and visit them. I am just no

longer putting myself in the position of being treated like my mil likes to

treat

me. But I really like Heidi's idea. I wouldn't mind showing up with a boiled

tongue.

Marcella

If

> you sat and watched them ate often enough, wouldn't they get the

> hint? Alternatively, take your own stuff and make a point of eating

> it at the same time as everyone else to show how seriously you take

> your own health (if you take it seriously, then they should)

>

> And then you can get your own back by feeding them some raw meat and

> other NT delicacies!

>

>

> Jo

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the advice given. I just can't catch up with all the email. I

really appreciate all the input. It is has given me alot to think about.

Marcella

[Guest guest]

I agree. I certainly can't diagnose a gall bladder attack, but I have been

doubled over in pain for hour from a food allergy. That was when I had a

very severe dairy allergy. It oly happened when I had dairy and I ate lots

of other fatty foods.

Irene

At 01:19 AM 7/13/03, you wrote:

> >I am betting you have that gallbladder removed

> >before the end of the year. THIS IS NOT AN ALLERGY.

> >

> >Lynn S.

>

>Or it might be both. Many people with gluten intolerances

>lose their gall bladder a LOT -- the gluten problems can damage

>the gall bladder (and pancreas/liver/thyroid) very badly.

>

>If you don't believe me, do a search on:

> " gall bladder " gluten. One typical story:

>

><http://www.mandlmedia.com/aviva/fall.html>http://www.mandlmedia.com/aviva/fall\

..html

>

>

>We were very close and it was very stressful. The stress affected my

>stomach and made an already bad situation worse. My grandmother was ok, I

>was busy with college and was fine with the Zantac until shortly before my

>20th birthday. I was awake all night with a typical " attack " that this

>time, would not go away. In the morning I was in the emergency room and

>after many tests, gall stones were found. I had my gall bladder removed a

>week later and I thought for once I could move on with my life. I was fine

>for a few months and then the same stomach disorders returned. I was

>starting to believe it was all in my head.

>---

>

>She then goes on for more years with more problems, until she changes her

>diet. It really is NOT an either/or

>situation.

>

>-- Heidi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>So if I appear to have gluten intolerance should I take Pepto Bismol?

>

>Marcella

If it helps! He got immediate relief, and he needed it. I took it when I

was travelling, because there was no way I could get GF food all the

time (it was MOSTLY GF, but there is the contamination problem, and

I am sensitive to that. Also there was no kimchi !!!!!).

PB eases the inflammation issues, which is really a lifesaver sometimes.

It heals microscopic colitis, which a lot of people seem to have (esp.

people who react to gluten). But it is only for short-term use: like, do it

for a week or two to get stabilized. And start good probiotics (kimchi

is my favorite) during that period or shortly after. Bismuth is the

active ingredient, and it actively inhibits certain kinds of bacterial

activity (mostly of the type you DO NOT need).

Kefir is a wonderful probiotic too, BTW, but the casein in it adds

another variable you probably don't need right now. Kefir has it's

own good things that are different from kimchi. Kimchi has

a lot of digestive enzymes (esp. if it is made with garlic and ginger

and pepper!) which are very helpful.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Marcella,

Know what you mean. Garden of Life products are expensive retail.

Through this website, you can get them cheap:

http://primaldefenseandbeyond.com

>

>

>

> > <<<Ok, *three* birds with one stone! ;-) I think the X-Factor

butter oil

> > from

> > Wetzel Farms has helped me fight off my systemic infection better

than

> > anything else. I strongly suggest

> >

> > 1)cod liver oil

> > 2)Wetzel Farms X-Factor Butter Oil

> > 3)Primal Defense from Garden of Life

> >

> > as a basic foundation for *any* treatment plan.

> >

> > (Two more things *I* forgot to mention!) >>>

>

>

> These are all very expensive except maybe the cod liver oil. I just

saw the

> primal defense at the store yesterday and it was, I believe, $50

for a bottle.

> I did just find a bottle of the Wetzel butter oil in my freezer

that I had

> forgotten about though. It is a shame it requires so much money to

eat healthy or

> to get well.

>

> Marcella

>

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marcella,

I'm sure as I scroll down my inbox I will see lots of responses from

folks regarding your post, but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents

worth,

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:02:12 EDT

antioecumenist@... wrote:

> I have felt horrible since I was about 14 and I am 26 now. I feel worse every

> year. I have tried one thing or another with my diet over the years. I know I

> am hypothyroid and have weak adrenals. I have alot of food allergies such as

> gluten, citrus and dairy in different forms. I have systemic candida also. I

> have been off all grains and sugars including fruit for the past few weeks

with

> the exceptions of brown rice twice and a handful of blackberries and

> blueberries I picked. I have been on Nystatin for 2 weeks and have had garlic

tablets

> since and it is not treating the candida. It seems the only way I can feel

> good is to not eat anything. I had some sardines earlier and felt fine after

> eating them. Later this evening I had some salmon cakes with egg in them. I

have

> a headache and achey joints and pain in my side now. I have wondered if I was

> allergic to eggs for a while. I haven't had any for well over a week till now.

> Maybe it was the salmon? I have felt MUCH better since eating pretty much

> only vegetable juices, broths, kefir or yoghurt and only a little bit of solid

> foods. But I have no appetite. I have never felt this way before. I really

only

> remember to eat when I find myself fealing dizzy or lightheaded. It concerns

> me having no appetite for food. I have some postpartum depression but I have

> dealt with depression before and it never caused a lack of appetite.

My first suggestion would be something you have already discovered on

your own: fast. IMO, the simplest, easiest, safest and fastest way to

deal with most situations like this is to go on a juice fast.

You will be amazed at what such will do for you. Literally amazed. After

twelve years of feeling horrible this could be the first time you have

had some serious relief in a long long time. Hippocrates referred to

fasting as " the doctor within. " One of the first things I did when I got

on this healing treadmill was to juice fast for 21 days. My mom thought

I was crazy since I was in my early twenties at the time, but there was

no denying my improvement in health.

Most Americans are not very well versed on this protocol and often

afraid of it. You might search out a health practitioner nearby who is

familiar with fasting and can help guide you through it, but don't let a

lack of one stop you if your mind, heart and gut tell you this is the

way to go.

Fasting has a long and honorable tradition and a good body of supporting

literature as well, although it is largely ignored on this side of the

pond.

And it sounds to me like you are already mostly fasting anyway. Judicious

fasting is certainly possible on your own provided you know what you are

doing and what to expect.

All the symptoms and problems you describe above should find immediate

relief while juice fasting. And while you can find lots of books with

lots of recipes about what juices to use, let me suggest that for the

most part it is not the juices themselves which do the healing, but the

body's own healing mechanisms that are able to work more efficiently

during this process (plus the things you are not taking in).

There are some guidelines about juicing itself (not fasting per se) that

you can find at this site: http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/juicing-basic-1.html.

The info should be quite helpful.

But a juice fast that includes a variety of mostly veggie juices,

potassium broths, some herbal support, and maybe even some green drinks

can be quite efficacious, IMO, in situations such as yours. Here is a

web link to fasting: http://www.fasting.com/index.html

Ignore whatever it is he is trying to sell. You don't really need it,

but you might find some of the info helpful.

If you are interested I can email you an article on fasting which would

be WAY to long to post here but is pretty good on the subject.

Also, you could easily graduate from a juice fast to a milk/kefir

protocol, as a way to extend the " fast " provided you have TOP QUALITY

dairy available. And if the thought of juice fasting intimidates you,

this may even be a good place to start instead. You can find some info

at the Weston Price Real Milk website:

http://www.realmilk.com/milkcure.html

>

> I also have this pain in my right side that comes and go. It started when I

> was pregnant with my first child. I had this severe pain in my side but my

> midwife brushed it off and told me it was probably my gallbladder but had no

> suggestions. I found out a few weeks later after giving birth that I had

recently

> had an undiagnosed kidney infection. This pain has come and gone over the

years

> but gotten worse the past year. I just had another baby 5 weeks ago and

> whenever I brought it up again to my midwife (different from the first) during

my

> pregnancy it was brushed off(sore from carrying around small children etc..).

I

> don't have insurance so need to take care of something like this myself. It

> has bothered me alot the last few days. I know it hurts worse if I eat fried

> foods or drink soft drinks. I of course have not had these lately but it is

> something that can start hurting minutes from starting to eat. It is on my

right

> side, kinda of in the back under the back of my rib cage approximately. A

> friend who is missing a kidney and the other one is weak has suggested it is

my

> kidney. What else is down there that could hurt like that? I know y'all aren't

> Dr's. I am not looking for one. I just need ideas of what I can do myself. I

> have mentioned it to the thyroid Dr I see every few months and he thought

maybe

> my kidney had " fallen " some. He did something with some vibrating/massage like

> thing and it hasn't helped. Don't ask me what it was I have never heard of it

> before. Any suggestions? I am tired of feeling tired. I need to eat but most

> of what I do makes me sick and tired.

You may not think so now but being sick and tired of being sick and

tired can be a good place to be, if it spurs you on to make the

necessary changes in your food choices and lifestyles.

Unless you want to be dealing with some extremely excruciating pain, I

think you need to pay very close attention to the pain you are having.

In my opinion, while you are fasting you should do both a liver flush

and a kidney/gall bladder flush, as it certainly sounds like you may

have stones. Believe me you don't want to pass those babies in the

normal manner. You will discover a new vocabulary that you may not have

known existed if you do.

A properly done flush is a non-invasive safe way to help heal your

organs and remove any stones. And during a fast of any sort it is

important that you get all your organs of elimination working properly.

I have an simple dietary flush that I can send your way if you are so

inclined. Much of what I have seen on the web is WAY to harsh and not

necessary.

It has been my experience that fasting, flushing and the milk cure are

simple but effective tools. Perhaps they can help you.

" Humans live on one-quarter of what they eat; on the other three-quarters lives

their doctor. "

--Egyptian pyramid inscription, 3800 B.C.

[Guest guest]

Oh one other thing I neglected to ask. Are you breastfeeding your baby?

If you are then that would change what I was suggesting in the previous

response.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:02:12 EDT

antioecumenist@... wrote:

> I have felt horrible since I was about 14 and I am 26 now. I feel worse every

> year. I have tried one thing or another with my diet over the years. I know I

> am hypothyroid and have weak adrenals. I have alot of food allergies such as

> gluten, citrus and dairy in different forms. I have systemic candida also. I

> have been off all grains and sugars including fruit for the past few weeks

with

> the exceptions of brown rice twice and a handful of blackberries and

> blueberries I picked. I have been on Nystatin for 2 weeks and have had garlic

tablets

> since and it is not treating the candida. It seems the only way I can feel

> good is to not eat anything. I had some sardines earlier and felt fine after

> eating them. Later this evening I had some salmon cakes with egg in them. I

have

> a headache and achey joints and pain in my side now. I have wondered if I was

> allergic to eggs for a while. I haven't had any for well over a week till now.

> Maybe it was the salmon? I have felt MUCH better since eating pretty much

> only vegetable juices, broths, kefir or yoghurt and only a little bit of solid

> foods. But I have no appetite. I have never felt this way before. I really

only

> remember to eat when I find myself fealing dizzy or lightheaded. It concerns

> me having no appetite for food. I have some postpartum depression but I have

> dealt with depression before and it never caused a lack of appetite.