Re: diet advice needed

[Guest guest]

At 06:40 PM 7/11/2003, you wrote:

><<<When you say you have gluten " allergy " exactly how do you mean? Have

>you had any testing done? Gluten intolerance is really a different animal

>from other food intolerances.>>>

>

>

>The naturopath I mentioned before told me I was allergic/sensitive to wheat.

>About a year ago I tried an elimination diet and found myself extremely

>sensitive to anything with gluten in it. I added brown rice back I my diet also

and

>though I didn't have as sever a reaction I started to feel worse after

>including it. I discovered that eliminating the gluten took care of my

depression in

>a way antipdepressants never had. It was the first time I had felt good in as

>long as I good remember but I added rice back in and gradually felt worse and

>worse and have found it next to impossible to totally eliminate the gluten

>ever since but I am at a point where I just have to and am.

If you've been off gluten for awhile, it is next to impossible to get a " good "

test

for IgA intolerances, but the fact you react to it (and get canker sores from

it)

is a good test in my book (the " clinical " test -- you eat it, you get sick, you

don't

eat it, you get better).

You are SOOO right that it is " next to impossible to totally eliminate " which

is exactly why the doctors don't like to mention it (even the ones that

know about it). But it is important to know that the reaction is an IMMUNE

reaction, and not totally dose-dependent. That is, it is like peanut allergy

in that a ridiculously TINY amount can set up the auto-immune reaction,

and then your body is attacking itself.

Most people end up keeping a food diary, complete with the source

and brand of what they are eating, because so many manufactured goods

are contaminated. Many grain foods are contaminated because the grains

are grown in the same fields as wheat, or stored in the same silos.

My husband ended up " healing " himself by going on a 2-week regimen

of nothing but whole fruits and vegies (nothing packaged) and meat,

fried or baked or whatever with no spices but salt and pepper. He took

a couple of doses of Pepto Bismol daily. After 2 weeks he was ok, then

he added stuff back in slowly.

Starting off with soups and broths would be even better, because

they are easy to digest (as people have been saying) and also because

there is less chance for contamination. If you are living in a house

with kids and a spouse who eat wheat, it is really, really hard

to avoid it. It even gets on the towels. I was " wearing " my own

kitchen towel (with a safety pin -- it is actually a great technique

for saving time too) to avoid " their " towel. But then everyone

gave up wheat which makes it much easier -- we don't allow it

in the house. Some people react to it when it gets in the air

too -- flour flies all over the place and you end up breathing

it in, and they HAVE shown that you can react to allergens

via breathing.

>> Well, that is just really depressing! What is a long time?

Up to 2 years. BUT -- most people never really eliminate gluten from

the diet, so it takes longer. Also a lot of people are cross-reacting

with other foods (yeast, milk, and eggs are the top of the list).

Taking bio-gest with each meal REALLY helps because the proteins

get digested more thorougly.

> <<<Having a baby makes it worse.>>>

>

>How about 3 , 3 and under.

Ack. I got wiped out with 2, and they are

easy kids.

>

>> I will look into Delphi. Any other suggestions?

There are good books, the best being " Dangerous Grains " , though

it doesn't deal with lifestyle much. You can do a web search

and get neat info -- www.celiac.com is kind of a clearinghouse

that is pretty good. Most info is under " celiac " because it

is the best studied, but most gluten-reactive folks don't

have classic " celiac " -- the " celiac " definition was coined in the

early 1900's before they knew what was going on.

>Any cocunut oils that don't taste so coconutty?

Not *good* ones! The Spectrum version has no taste

(or used to). You can get purified MCT too, which is EASY

to digest but you have to start slowly. You can also just

use less fat for now.

>I held them together with just eggs. They probably would have benefitted

>taste wise from some flour but I didn't want to use any and my kids did like

them.

Ok, so that leaves just the eggs as potential issues ... or spices. I never

could

get salmon cakes to hold together though, you must be a good cook ...

Also as for sleep -- you don't mention a spouse or other live-in, which

would matter a lot one way or the other -- but one thing that saved me

was sleeping with my first kid. (I could not with the second, but we

do on weekends, upstairs away from my husband, who can't deal

with kids at night!). It is recommended in " The Baby Book " (a great

book for moms, BTW!) but our main motivation at first was

that we had no room for a crib. Anyway, the kids tend to sleep

when Mom is asleep, and the sleep more soundly, which is WONDERFUL.

So if you are not doing that, I highly recommend it, if you are

having problems with their schedule. Sometimes you can

even convince all the kids to take a nap during the afternoon --

along with you -- just all pile into the bed and take a nap.

Really helps the mom!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/12/03 1:50:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jopollack2001@... writes:

> Really? I also get very tired in the early evening and am buzzing

> when it actually reaches bedtime. My own theory on this is that

> obviously, when you get tired, your body is telling you to sleep. If

> you don't sleep it's emergency reserves kick in to keep you awake and

> functioning. The emergency reserve being adrenalin. I also find

> that when I fight through the tiredness barrier, I get hungry, which

> is my body calling out for the energy required to keep me going when

> I should be fast asleep!

Jo,

What do you consider " early evening " ? What I've read is that if you find

that you are tired through most of the day and in the evening, 6pm or

thereabouts, you feel good, this is a sign of hypoadrenal. If when you get

tired is

around when it gets dark, or a couple hours after, this is probably because you

are supposed to go to sleep.

I find the same thing, and have talked to others too. You get tired for a

little while around 7 or 8 or so, obviously because that's when you should

sleep, and then you get " buzzing " because you've already screwed up your system

from not sleeping when your circadian rhythm is set to.

until a century or so ago, people didn't stay up to long after dark, for

hundreds of thousands of years...

chris

[Guest guest]

Jo,

What do you get for sunlight? I think the most helpful thing to do is to get

an hour of sunlight on bare eyes, not barrierred by windows, glasses,

contacts, sunglasses, etc, every day. If possible, try to get this sunlight

immediately upon getting up. Do some exercise outside right when you get up in

the

morning sun.

Also very important is regular exercise. You don't want to exercise right

before bed, but if you can exercise four to eight hours before bed this should

help. Exercising at any time during the day should help, but I've found it

most effective to exercise in the late afternoon. I realize this might not work

with your schedule. I don't know what you do for work, but if there's anyway

to get any kind of exercise while working this should help. Do you leave

early? Maybe getting a good half hour or hour in before you leave?

Do a search on Mercola for sleeping tips. He has a lot of helpful tips.

I've found a couple of them to be counter-productive for me like not eating or

drinking before bed, but mostly very good stuff that have helped me a lot.

Definitely don't watch tv or go on the computer before bed! It stimulates the

pineal gland, and I invariably find that going on the computer for longer than a

half hour for bed gives me insomnia unless I wait at least a half hour before

going to bed. Yet I do it anyway :-/

Chris

In a message dated 7/12/03 6:44:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jopollack2001@... writes:

>

> Actually, I get tired around 7-8pm. However, this has been going on

> mostly in the last couple of months, when it's not been getting

> dark until gone 9pm.

>

> As I don't get home from work until after 6.30pm, then have dinner

> and allow for digestion time before bed, is there anything I can do

> to get out of the cycle?

>

> I have been sleeping very badly lately and I don't know why.

> Difficulty getting to sleep and waking up at 5.20am most mornings (if

> I go to bed an hour later, I awake at around 6.30, so I don't believe

> it is a regular noise outside that is waking me). It's driving me

> mad and I am suffering from sleep deprivation.

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

..<<< You mentioned that you had changed your diet, but I don't recall what

changes you made - did you cut out any major sources of carbs?>>>

I have cut out grains, fruits and natural sweeteners except stevia. Every

morning I have vegetable juice like celery, cucumber, parsley and a little

carrot. I haven't had much today. I had juice. Some pureed raw carrot with olive

oil

and lemon juice, some chicken broth with coconut milk and a little dulse and

water to drink. I need to go get some more to eat.

> << (Are you nauseated or just inappetant?)>>

I just have no appetite.

> <<<I would ask for a complete endocrine panel including sex hormones. These

> are blood tests. Fertility clinics do sex hormone panels all the time, they

> are highly reliable and widely available. I'm not sure why so many doctors

> are averse to doing them or think they are unreliable or, in the case of those

> who lean more toward alternative practice, why they seem to prefer the

> much-less-reliable saliva tests. (If saliva tests were as reliable as blood

tests,

> fertility clinics would use them.) You want to know if your own estrogens

> (you have more than one kind) and progesterone are at optimum levels - not

just

> within the lab's " normal " range, but actually optimum for your age.

>

> Sex hormones to check include:

>

> FSH (follilcle stimulating hormone)

> Estradiol (one of the estrogens)

> Estriol (another estrogen)

> Testosterone

> Progesterone

> DHEA

>

> Usually the blood should be drawn on day 3 of your menstrual cycle.>>>

I will look into all of these but I have no menstrual cycle as of yet so what

would I do?

>

>

>

> <<The tests for digestive hormones and blood sugar are widely available. If

> you are diagnosed hypoglycemic, I presume you've had blood sugar tests done

> already? Or was this just diagnosed with either AK or based on symptoms?>>

Based on symptoms. I did pass the GD test this pregnancy by 1 pt.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <<<You mentioned in a later post that you are depressed, and that you have

> three children under three. My guess is that you are severely sleep deprived.

> Sleep deprivation has been proven again and again to disrupt all phases of

> the endocrine system - sex hormones, sleep hormones, digestive hormones,

stress

> hormones. I don't know how to suggest you get more sleep, as most moms I

> know are chronically sleep-deprived, but none of them that I know personally

has

> symptoms that sound as serious to me as yours do. >>>

I am not really all that sleep deprived. I don't think. I just need to go to

bed sooner. Dh has done most of the night time baby care from the beginning. I

rarely nurse at night, we give him the NT formula. I didn't feel that I could

handle the drain of nursing full time. I had just weaned my 2nd 4 months

before this little guy was born. He was still nursing 8-12 times a day when I

started weaning him. By 14 weeks pregnant I had lost 14 lbs and figured I

couldn't feed three of us at once. This little guy had been sleeping 5-6 hours a

night the past week and then the night before 7 hours and then last night 8 so I

guess he is definitely sleeping through the night now.

Maybe I am just used to feeling like crap all the time but what of my

symptoms sounds so " serious " ?

Thanks for all the suggestions as far as testing goes.

Marcella

>

> Take care,

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chris

Actually, I get tired around 7-8pm. However, this has been going on

mostly in the last couple of months, when it's not been getting

dark until gone 9pm.

As I don't get home from work until after 6.30pm, then have dinner

and allow for digestion time before bed, is there anything I can do

to get out of the cycle?

I have been sleeping very badly lately and I don't know why.

Difficulty getting to sleep and waking up at 5.20am most mornings (if

I go to bed an hour later, I awake at around 6.30, so I don't believe

it is a regular noise outside that is waking me). It's driving me

mad and I am suffering from sleep deprivation.

Jo

>

What I've read is that if you find

> that you are tired through most of the day and in the evening, 6pm

or

> thereabouts, you feel good, this is a sign of hypoadrenal. If when

you get tired is

> around when it gets dark, or a couple hours after, this is probably

because you

> are supposed to go to sleep.

>

> I find the same thing, and have talked to others too. You get

tired for a

> little while around 7 or 8 or so, obviously because that's when you

should

> sleep, and then you get " buzzing " because you've already screwed up

your system

> from not sleeping when your circadian rhythm is set to.

>

> until a century or so ago, people didn't stay up to long after

dark, for

> hundreds of thousands of years...

>

[Guest guest]

<<<If you've been off gluten for awhile, it is next to impossible to get a

" good " test

for IgA intolerances, but the fact you react to it (and get canker sores from

it)

is a good test in my book (the " clinical " test -- you eat it, you get sick,

you don't

eat it, you get better).>>>

I was looking at the site you mentioned and I don't think I would even want

to be tested for it if it meant I couldn't get health insurance in the future.

I was really surprised by that.

>

> <<<You are SOOO right that it is " next to impossible to totally eliminate "

> which

> is exactly why the doctors don't like to mention it (even the ones that

> know about it). But it is important to know that the reaction is an IMMUNE

> reaction, and not totally dose-dependent. That is, it is like peanut allergy

> in that a ridiculously TINY amount can set up the auto-immune reaction,

> >>>

This is really interesting.

>

>

>

> <<<My husband ended up " healing " himself by going on a 2-week regimen

> of nothing but whole fruits and vegies (nothing packaged) and meat,

> fried or baked or whatever with no spices but salt and pepper. He took

> a couple of doses of Pepto Bismol daily. After 2 weeks he was ok, then

> he added stuff back in slowly.>>>

Why did he take Pepto Bismol?

>

> <<<Starting off with soups and broths would be even better, because

> they are easy to digest (as people have been saying) and also because

> there is less chance for contamination. If you are living in a house

> with kids and a spouse who eat wheat, it is really, really hard

> to avoid it. It even gets on the towels. I was " wearing " my own

> kitchen towel (with a safety pin -- it is actually a great technique

> for saving time too) to avoid " their " towel. But then everyone

> gave up wheat which makes it much easier -- we don't allow it

> in the house. Some people react to it when it gets in the air

> too -- flour flies all over the place and you end up breathing

> it in, and they HAVE shown that you can react to allergens

> via breathing.>>>

We have some whole grains in a bucket but I don't buy things with wheat in it

for them except rarely (that I know of). I haven't made them bread in months.

It wouldn't be hard to take it out of everyone's diets, if we never visit my

parents again:) My children are too little to object and my husband would be

totally supportive.

>

>

> <<<Up to 2 years. BUT -- most people never really eliminate gluten from

> the diet, so it takes longer. Also a lot of people are cross-reacting

> with other foods (yeast, milk, and eggs are the top of the list).

> Taking bio-gest with each meal REALLY helps because the proteins

> get digested more thorougly.>>>

What defines getting well? You can start reintroducing it right?

<<<> There are good books, the best being " Dangerous Grains " , though

> it doesn't deal with lifestyle much. You can do a web search

> and get neat info -- www.celiac.com is kind of a clearinghouse

> that is pretty good. Most info is under " celiac " because it

> is the best studied, but most gluten-reactive folks don't

> have classic " celiac " -- the " celiac " definition was coined in the

> early 1900's before they knew what was going on.>>>

What really is the difference between gluten intolerance and celiac? I get

alot of conflicting info from what I have read.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <<<Ok, so that leaves just the eggs as potential issues ... or spices. I

> never could

> get salmon cakes to hold together though, you must be a good cook ...>>>

I had them with raw creme freche and dill and sea salt. I have had the creme

freche lately though and not noticed a reaction. I had some earlier that day

with a few bites of blackberries and had no problems.

>

> <<<Also as for sleep -- you don't mention a spouse or other live-in, which

> would matter a lot one way or the other -- but one thing that saved me

> was sleeping with my first kid. (I could not with the second, but we

> do on weekends, upstairs away from my husband, who can't deal

> with kids at night!). It is recommended in " The Baby Book " (a great

> book for moms, BTW!) but our main motivation at first was

> that we had no room for a crib. Anyway, the kids tend to sleep

> when Mom is asleep, and the sleep more soundly, which is WONDERFUL.

> So if you are not doing that, I highly recommend it, if you are

> having problems with their schedule. Sometimes you can

> even convince all the kids to take a nap during the afternoon --

> along with you -- just all pile into the bed and take a nap.

> Really helps the mom!>>>

I co-slept with my second. It was a necessity. He nursed every 10 min around

the clock and it was how I survived. My first slept through the night at 4

weeks and it looks like Fintan is doing it now also. I love sleeping with a baby

but I really want my own room in the bed. I avoid sleeping during the day

because I feel so horrible when I do it. I can't quite recover from it. I need

to

get the one I coslept with to sleep now. He has to sleep alone at nap time

because he bounces off the walls for an hour or so before going to sleep. He is

fine at night. I am really tired though, not all that sleep deprived but

exhausted from one of those 2 year olds who has to go through everything and

empty

it out or dump the silverware and shoes in the trash, spread potatoes around

the house, put rocks in the toilet etc...He doesn't want toys he wants

appliances!!

Marcella

>

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Uggh, that sounds horrible. But I thought that gallbladder pains were in a

different spot, the upper back/chest area? I guess I need to find out what it

would cost to get some insurance.

Marcella

>

>

>

>

>

> Marcella, this sounds a lot like gallbladder to me, and it's nothing to

> mess with. Once you've got gallstones even natural health practitioners

> admit there's not much to be done. Find a way to get checked out. (I

> imagine this will run counter to other advice you'll get here, but I

> have passed a gallstone and I'd rather give vaginal birth to triplets

> all at once than pass one of those puppies again.)

>

> Lynn S.

>

[Guest guest]

> <<<Well, you won't hear any arguments from me! NOTHING hurts more than a

> gall stone. Nothing on this earth. I've never had a child but women I know who

> have had both babies and gallstones, tell me that the gall stone pain is

> worse than childbirth. On a scale of 1-10 it's a thousand.

>

> Christie>>>

> Can you get an epidural for this? LOL

>

> Marcella

[Guest guest]

Marcella,

Do you have any root canalled teeth or teeth that had been removed from

severe decay?

This is something that should always be considered with any degenerative

diseases especially ones that seem to be related to systemic infections. If you

have root canalled teeth, there is little chance they are not involved, and if

you have removed teeth it is also possible.These could, if you have them, be

contributing or directly causing to just about every symptom you've mentioned.

Of course they could all also have other causes, but it is an important

question to ask anyone with systemic problems I think.

chris

[Guest guest]

No, I have had no root canals or teeth removed. I do have two fillings. One

mercury one that was given agains my wish. I had requested a white filling and

when the silver one was put in the dentist had the nerve to tell me it would

get lighter!! I was 14 and easily pushed around. Of course this is the same

dentist that told my aunt that there is NO mercury in fillings anymore. Quite a

liar huh?

But I know I have some cavities that have not been taken care of.

Marcella

> Marcella,

>

> Do you have any root canalled teeth or teeth that had been removed from

> severe decay?

>

> This is something that should always be considered with any degenerative

> diseases especially ones that seem to be related to systemic infections. If

> you

> have root canalled teeth, there is little chance they are not involved, and

> if

> you have removed teeth it is also possible.These could, if you have them, be

> contributing or directly causing to just about every symptom you've

> mentioned.

>

> Of course they could all also have other causes, but it is an important

> question to ask anyone with systemic problems I think.

>

> chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess that is the problem. I have felt bad for so long that it is my norm.

I don't go battering down hospital walls because of it. I grew up with an

" it's all in your head, just get up and go and you will feel better " kind of

dad.

And a mom who did attempt to take me to one dr or another since I was small

but never followed through with anything. And I functioned. I mean nothing was

growing out the side of my neck.

<<<> I consider all those things quite serious, although only one of them

> wouldn't be so unusual. But all three tells me your endocrine system is in big

> trouble. (I say three because I'm not sure you DO have weak adrenals. You may,

> I just don't know for sure. This is a big catch-all diagnosis and I think

> it's often just an easy guess.)>>>

I was told I had a systemic candida infection when I was about 15 I think

and diagnosed with alot of allergies. But nobody ever took it seriously. I tell

my inlaws when we have visited them that I can not eat certain things. They

have NEVER taken it into consideration. I can just sit at the table and watch

them eat or eat what they serve. I am just used to these issues being of no real

concern to others. Like I said if I am not bleeding and nothing is growing

out of my neck what could be wrong with me? I am not sure what the deal is but

with the exception of my husband no one takes seriously the idea that I might

have to do something other than take a pill to feel better.

>

> <<<You also said, " It seems the only way I can feel

> good is to not eat anything. " This I find really very scary. Not only do we

> need to eat to live (obviously), but food should make you feel good, not bad!

> Or at least it should leave you feeling normal. Anything that fundamentally

> interferes with a basic function of life is very serious indeed, in my

> personal world view.>>>

I can eat whatever I want and I deal with being severely depressed and with

not having enough energy to do much more than move from the bed to the sofa. I

can try and eliminate food allergens from my diet and feel better. The problem

is that when I try to do that there are so many things that I will get a

strong reaction from or I can't determine what of what I ate made me feel bad. I

tried eating something lately I had heard recommended to get in alot of raw

fats. I had raw cream, butter, a little coconut oil, a raw egg yolk and some

frozen strawberries and stevia. I spent hours, most of the day, in pain and had

diarrhea. My mom actually came over to watch the kids so my husband could go to

work. Ok, so that is really not normal. I guess you have a point. I had

forgotten about that. Could that be gallbladder? I just thought it was an

allergic

reaction to something I had eaten.

>

> <<<You continue to say you have no appetite, you forget to eat, you have

> mild postpartum depression (although I do wonder if your lack of appetite,

which

> is severe, is not also a symptom of postpartum hormonal problems), you have

> had depression in the past. Depression is a severe symptom, again, because it

> interferes with a basic life function and alters how you perceive the world.>

> >>

I have wondered if the lack of appetite could be depression except that I

have never had lack of appetite with depression except for the occasional day. I

am also feeling alot less depressed than I was before I lost my appetite.

>

> <<<You said " I have never felt this way before. " This would lead me to

> believe that your condition is worsening, in that you have a new symptom or a

new

> set of symptoms.>>>

The lack of appetite is what is new.

>

> <<<You said you have a pain in the right side that comes and goes, that you

> think is a kidney infection. You think it could also possibly be your gall

> bladder. You mention you have no insurance so you have to take care of this

> yourself, but what is " this " ? Gallbladder is, as someone else pointed out,

very

> serious, potentially life-threatening. Ask me, I know, as I was raced to the

> hospital a few years ago with a stone lodged in my common bile duct,

> literally screaming in pain, for emergency gb surgery.>>>

I was told I had had a kidney infection. I don't think I have one now. One

midwife had suggested gallbladder but then didn't act like it was serious.

" this " that I need to take care of is the whole group of symptoms I guess that

make

me feel so awful. I don't have insurance and very little money and medical

caregivers in general in my experience do not listen. They will charge me $100

to tell me what is wrong with me without really every listening to what I say

and in the end it doesn't accomplish much except I am out $100.

>

> <<<That is why I think your symptoms sound serious. Is there no way for you

> to obtain medical care in your area, without insurance? You have three young

> children and some very distressing symptoms. >>>

There are very few Dr's that will do much other than prescribe an

antidepressant or an antibiotic and I doubt the alternative is at the health

dept:) I

think most MD's if you don't have money or insurance will just wait till you are

taken to the ER in an ambulance before addressing anything. I would like to

looking into insurance for myself to cover possible treatment BUT am I in so bad

a health that I can pass the medical exam they initially do?

Marcella

>

> All my best,

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marcella, this sounds a lot like gallbladder to me, and it's nothing to

mess with. Once you've got gallstones even natural health practitioners

admit there's not much to be done. Find a way to get checked out. (I

imagine this will run counter to other advice you'll get here, but I

have passed a gallstone and I'd rather give vaginal birth to triplets

all at once than pass one of those puppies again.)

Lynn S.

[Guest guest]

Get your hands on 'How We Heal' by on (North Atlantic Books)

Bellanger

Melb, Aust

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Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to

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[Guest guest]

>> Marcella, this sounds a lot like gallbladder to me, and it's nothing to

mess with. Once you've got gallstones even natural health practitioners

admit there's not much to be done. Find a way to get checked out. (I

imagine this will run counter to other advice you'll get here, but I

have passed a gallstone and I'd rather give vaginal birth to triplets

all at once than pass one of those puppies again.) <<

Well, you won't hear any arguments from me! NOTHING hurts more than a gall

stone. Nothing on this earth. I've never had a child but women I know who have

had both babies and gallstones, tell me that the gall stone pain is worse than

childbirth. On a scale of 1-10 it's a thousand.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> Maybe I am just used to feeling like crap all the time but what of my

symptoms sounds so " serious " ? <<

Marcella, I am not a stunning example of good health, but if I felt as bad as

you describe I would be battering down the walls of my local hospital.

You said:

" I have felt horrible since I was about 14 and I am 26 now. " Hon, that's a long

long time to feel even a little off, let alone " horrible. "

You said:

" I know I

am hypothyroid and have weak adrenals. I have alot of food allergies such as

gluten, citrus and dairy in different forms. I have systemic candida also "

I consider all those things quite serious, although only one of them wouldn't be

so unusual. But all three tells me your endocrine system is in big trouble. (I

say three because I'm not sure you DO have weak adrenals. You may, I just don't

know for sure. This is a big catch-all diagnosis and I think it's often just an

easy guess.)

You also said, " It seems the only way I can feel

good is to not eat anything. " This I find really very scary. Not only do we need

to eat to live (obviously), but food should make you feel good, not bad! Or at

least it should leave you feeling normal. Anything that fundamentally interferes

with a basic function of life is very serious indeed, in my personal world view.

You continue to say you have no appetite, you forget to eat, you have mild

postpartum depression (although I do wonder if your lack of appetite, which is

severe, is not also a symptom of postpartum hormonal problems), you have had

depression in the past. Depression is a severe symptom, again, because it

interferes with a basic life function and alters how you perceive the world.

You also said you have achey joints, a headache, and a pain in your side,

possibly from eating eggs in a salmon cake. Again, by itself this is not

serious, but in the overall picture I think it's certainly worth some concern.

You said " I have never felt this way before. " This would lead me to believe that

your condition is worsening, in that you have a new symptom or a new set of

symptoms.

You said you have a pain in the right side that comes and goes, that you think

is a kidney infection. You think it could also possibly be your gall bladder.

You mention you have no insurance so you have to take care of this yourself, but

what is " this " ? Gallbladder is, as someone else pointed out, very serious,

potentially life-threatening. Ask me, I know, as I was raced to the hospital a

few years ago with a stone lodged in my common bile duct, literally screaming in

pain, for emergency gb surgery.

A kidney infection is also extremely serious. Kidney infections are very hard to

eradicate and can cause auto-immune disorders and seed infection to other parts

of the body including the heart. They can cause sepsis. They are nothing to mess

around with and can be life-threatening.

That is why I think your symptoms sound serious. Is there no way for you to

obtain medical care in your area, without insurance? You have three young

children and some very distressing symptoms.

All my best,

Christie

Re: diet advice needed

.<<< You mentioned that you had changed your diet, but I don't recall what

changes you made - did you cut out any major sources of carbs?>>>

I have cut out grains, fruits and natural sweeteners except stevia. Every

morning I have vegetable juice like celery, cucumber, parsley and a little

carrot. I haven't had much today. I had juice. Some pureed raw carrot with

olive oil

and lemon juice, some chicken broth with coconut milk and a little dulse and

water to drink. I need to go get some more to eat.

> << (Are you nauseated or just inappetant?)>>

I just have no appetite.

> <<<I would ask for a complete endocrine panel including sex hormones. These

> are blood tests. Fertility clinics do sex hormone panels all the time, they

> are highly reliable and widely available. I'm not sure why so many doctors

> are averse to doing them or think they are unreliable or, in the case of

those

> who lean more toward alternative practice, why they seem to prefer the

> much-less-reliable saliva tests. (If saliva tests were as reliable as blood

tests,

> fertility clinics would use them.) You want to know if your own estrogens

> (you have more than one kind) and progesterone are at optimum levels - not

just

> within the lab's " normal " range, but actually optimum for your age.

>

> Sex hormones to check include:

>

> FSH (follilcle stimulating hormone)

> Estradiol (one of the estrogens)

> Estriol (another estrogen)

> Testosterone

> Progesterone

> DHEA

>

> Usually the blood should be drawn on day 3 of your menstrual cycle.>>>

I will look into all of these but I have no menstrual cycle as of yet so what

would I do?

>

>

>

> <<The tests for digestive hormones and blood sugar are widely available. If

> you are diagnosed hypoglycemic, I presume you've had blood sugar tests done

> already? Or was this just diagnosed with either AK or based on symptoms?>>

Based on symptoms. I did pass the GD test this pregnancy by 1 pt.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> <<<You mentioned in a later post that you are depressed, and that you have

> three children under three. My guess is that you are severely sleep

deprived.

> Sleep deprivation has been proven again and again to disrupt all phases of

> the endocrine system - sex hormones, sleep hormones, digestive hormones,

stress

> hormones. I don't know how to suggest you get more sleep, as most moms I

> know are chronically sleep-deprived, but none of them that I know personally

has

> symptoms that sound as serious to me as yours do. >>>

I am not really all that sleep deprived. I don't think. I just need to go to

bed sooner. Dh has done most of the night time baby care from the beginning. I

rarely nurse at night, we give him the NT formula. I didn't feel that I could

handle the drain of nursing full time. I had just weaned my 2nd 4 months

before this little guy was born. He was still nursing 8-12 times a day when I

started weaning him. By 14 weeks pregnant I had lost 14 lbs and figured I

couldn't feed three of us at once. This little guy had been sleeping 5-6 hours

a

night the past week and then the night before 7 hours and then last night 8 so

I

guess he is definitely sleeping through the night now.

Maybe I am just used to feeling like crap all the time but what of my

symptoms sounds so " serious " ?

Thanks for all the suggestions as far as testing goes.

Marcella

>

> Take care,

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

>> Can you get an epidural for this? LOL <<

LOL, good question! I was on major drugs, but I never thought to ask about an

epidural. <G>

I do know that when I was finally taken down for surgery, the anesthesiologist

came to my side and said " Are there any questions I can answer for you or

anything I can do for you? "

I said, " All I want is to be unconsious. "

He laughed and said, " I can do that for you. " And he did. <G>

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> Of course they could all also have other causes, but it is an important

question to ask anyone with systemic problems I think. <<

I agree, particularly if it turns out you have a kidney infection. Studies of

bacteria in kidney infections find that an amazing number of them originate in

the mouth. Of course, they also come from the bladder. But it's a thought.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> I would like to

looking into insurance for myself to cover possible treatment BUT am I in so bad

a health that I can pass the medical exam they initially do? <<

One nice thing about being off the medical system radar is that they probably

have no idea what symptoms you have. And most of the things you mention are

pretty vague from the perspective of conventional medicine.

Do you see any kind of MD or OD right now, such as your thyroid doc? Anyone

whose info on you would be in the big medical history computer in the sky? I

wouldn't lie on the application as they'll just use it as a reason to deny

coverage if you make a claim, but much of what you're complaining of is not the

kind of thing they are looking for. Also, most health insurance will make you

wait 90 days or some other time period to be covered, to rule out a lot of

pre-existing conditions, unless you were previously insured. The only thing that

they might be concerned about is your thyroid condition.

I am not trying in any way to scare you, by the way. I just was trying to

reflect back my perception of what you were saying, to give you some perspective

on what it looked like to me as far as how serious it is. I truly believe that

you should be willing to go to any lengths to feel good, and not just accept

feeling crappy for all your adult life. I don't know why others have brushed it

off, whether that was their problem or if perhaps you expressed yourself in a

way that dismisses what you're saying, possibly for the reasons you gave as to

why you don't take this seriously. But I'll say this: I do believe that you can

feel good, and that you deserve to feel good, and that the things that are wrong

with you are probably more or less one thing, except that pain in the side which

I would try to get pinned down ASAP.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>I have been sleeping very badly lately and I don't know why.

>Difficulty getting to sleep and waking up at 5.20am most mornings (if

>I go to bed an hour later, I awake at around 6.30, so I don't believe

>it is a regular noise outside that is waking me). It's driving me

>mad and I am suffering from sleep deprivation.

>

>Jo

For some reason I get this whenever I don't eat enough in

the evening. I started having a few rice crackers and lox

(and, I admit) a glass of wine, and sleep great. If I eat too

much in the evening, I sleep in way too late. Too little

and I'm up at 5.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

> Well, you won't hear any arguments from me! NOTHING hurts more than a

> gall stone. Nothing on this earth. I've never had a child but women I

> know who have had both babies and gallstones, tell me that the gall

> stone pain is worse than childbirth. On a scale of 1-10 it's a

> thousand.

Yeah, in the words of Spinal Tap, it goes to eleven. First you think

you're dying and then you wish you were dying. Had there been a gun

nearby I would have happily shot myself to make it stop. Here's my

article on gallstones:

http://www.newhomemaker.com/health/gallbladder.html

It advises extremely low fat if you're having gallstone trouble, but

it's a temporary measure until you can get to surgery. Extreme low fat

and dieting can actually cause gallstones in the first place.

What concerns me about Marcella's story is the location of the pain and

the proximity to pregnancy. These are classic indications of

gallbladder trouble, Marcella; you really need to have it checked out.

Not only is passing a stone one of the most painful things that can

happen to you (and I've had a heart attack and gone through both labor

and a c-section), but if a stone gets stuck in the bile duct you can

develop pancreatitis and die. My 22-year-old sister-in-law nearly bit

it this way. Lithotripsy--concentrated blasts of ultrasound--can break

up stones, but it's a chancy procedure at best and can sometimes make a

bad situation worse. Usually once you've started having gallbladder

attacks the only thing for it is to yank that puppy. Even my

naturopaths said so, and they are very anti-surgery generally speaking.

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

[Guest guest]

> Uggh, that sounds horrible. But I thought that gallbladder pains were

> in a

> different spot, the upper back/chest area? I guess I need to find out

> what it

> would cost to get some insurance.

Read my article. When I had the pain it was front and center right

below my breast bone; when I passed a stone the pain radiated through

to my back. Gallbladder pain tends to be toward the right, but doesn't

have to be, and tends to be just under or just below the rib cage, but

doesn't have to be. It's very individual; gallbladders are in different

spots in different people but generally speaking are above the liver to

the center right of the breastbone.

You have three babies who need you. Get some health insurance. We're on

WIC and may have to get food stamps, so I know all about how hard it

is; we are lucky to (finally) have paid health insurance through my

husband's work. During the time he was un/underemployed, we begged,

borrowed and contemplated stealing to pay our $700/mo health insurance

premium (more than our house payment) and wondered if we were making

the right decision. When I had my heart attack that year, coverage for

five days of the ICU and cardiologists' fees more than paid back the

previous six months of premiums. It's that important.

Best,

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

[Guest guest]

>> Can you get an epidural for this? LOL

1 word: Demerol. aaahhh, demerol. The last gallbladder attack I had I

literally blessed the nurse as she pushed it into my IV.

Lynn S.

-----

Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan

The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/

Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/

[Guest guest]

> had heard recommended to get in alot of raw

> fats. I had raw cream, butter, a little coconut oil, a raw egg yolk

> and some

> frozen strawberries and stevia. I spent hours, most of the day, in

> pain and had

> diarrhea. My mom actually came over to watch the kids so my husband

> could go to

> work. Ok, so that is really not normal. I guess you have a point. I had

> forgotten about that. Could that be gallbladder? I just thought it was

> an allergic

> reaction to something I had eaten.

Marcella, this is a classic case of cholecystitis--gallbladder

trouble--I'm telling you, you've got to get an ultrasound asap before

you end up in the ER. I am betting you have that gallbladder removed

before the end of the year. THIS IS NOT AN ALLERGY.

Lynn S.

[Guest guest]

>I was looking at the site you mentioned and I don't think I would even want

>to be tested for it if it meant I couldn't get health insurance in the future.

>I was really surprised by that.

That is one reason I didn't have my kids tested, and I got tested

" on my own dime. " And the test I got done is not the classic

" celiac " test. If you do get diagnosed celiac it is bad news, insurance

wise. But they don't care about " gluten intolerance " . They have not

figured out, yet, that they are the same disease.

Like others have been saying though, if you CAN get to a doctor,

you should. You probably will NOT show up positive on

an IgA blood test, even if they do it, because you haven't been

eating gluten. And most docs won't do it unless you ask

anyway, because very, very few of them have read anything

about gluten intolerance. They think it is very rare, or in

your head.

However, it is a good idea to get insurance before ANY

diagnostic tests because in most states, if you get diagnosed

with something expensive, it will not be covered when you DO

get insurance. The health care in this country ... !

Pain in the right quadrant could be gall bladder or kidney,

or appendicitis, or anything. Pain has a way of showing up

in places other than where it originated -- back pain does

that a lot. When I get a stiff back, it shows up in my hip,

for some reason. If you can press on it, then it hurts

when you let UP, then it is likely appendicitis and you

REALLY need to get to a doctor.

> Why did he take Pepto Bismol?

Pepto helps heal damage to the gut. It also kills " bad " bacteria

(and maybe the good ones too), so then the probiotics you

are eating can get a better foothold.

>We have some whole grains in a bucket but I don't buy things with wheat in it

>for them except rarely (that I know of). I haven't made them bread in months.

>It wouldn't be hard to take it out of everyone's diets, if we never visit my

>parents again:) My children are too little to object and my husband would be

>totally supportive.

You are fortunate. My husband was supportive after I started " cooking

different " , because he started to feel better. He didn't know WHY he was

feeling better, then he did the meat/vegie/Pepto thing and really got

better. My daughter got supportive after she figured out the wheat

was giving her canker sores -- she HATES canker sores, and she

reliably gets them when she eats something with wheat or malt in it.

>What defines getting well? You can start reintroducing it right?

No. There is zero evidence that gluten intolerance goes away, and

a good deal of evidence that people who THINK it has gone

away are in fact getting damage. Some of the other allergies

can go away, but not this one. Though some folks disagree on

this: none of the folks who disagree are researchers though, that

I've read.

>

>What really is the difference between gluten intolerance and celiac? I get

>alot of conflicting info from what I have read.

Zero difference. Celiac is ONE symptom of gluten intolerance, which

is an autoimmune disorder. Celiac is defined by a certain degree

of damage to the villi in the upper intestine ... not all folks with

gluten intolerance have that damage, and often it isn't found when

they DO have it. It is probable though, that said damage can ALSO

be caused by other factors, such as other allergies or bacterial

overgrowth or candida, so maybe some folks with " celiac " are not

gluten intolerant.

>

>I had them with raw creme freche and dill and sea salt. I have had the creme

>freche lately though and not noticed a reaction. I had some earlier that day

>with a few bites of blackberries and had no problems.

Some brands of herbs have gluten in them (from not cleaning the lines,

or they use starch to make them pour easier). McCormick is ok though.

I've had problems with some other brands, mostly smaller companies.

>I co-slept with my second. It was a necessity. He nursed every 10 min around

>the clock and it was how I survived. My first slept through the night at 4

>weeks and it looks like Fintan is doing it now also. I love sleeping with a

baby

>but I really want my own room in the bed. I avoid sleeping during the day

>because I feel so horrible when I do it. I can't quite recover from it. I need

to

>get the one I coslept with to sleep now. He has to sleep alone at nap time

>because he bounces off the walls for an hour or so before going to sleep. He is

>fine at night. I am really tired though, not all that sleep deprived but

>exhausted from one of those 2 year olds who has to go through everything and

empty

>it out or dump the silverware and shoes in the trash, spread potatoes around

>the house, put rocks in the toilet etc...He doesn't want toys he wants

>appliances!!

Well, mine are STILL that way. The oldest is 9 and they are just beginning

to put stuff away when they get it out!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>I am betting you have that gallbladder removed

>before the end of the year. THIS IS NOT AN ALLERGY.

>

>Lynn S.

Or it might be both. Many people with gluten intolerances

lose their gall bladder a LOT -- the gluten problems can damage

the gall bladder (and pancreas/liver/thyroid) very badly.

If you don't believe me, do a search on:

" gall bladder " gluten. One typical story:

http://www.mandlmedia.com/aviva/fall.html

We were very close and it was very stressful. The stress affected my stomach and

made an already bad situation worse. My grandmother was ok, I was busy with

college and was fine with the Zantac until shortly before my 20th birthday. I

was awake all night with a typical " attack " that this time, would not go away.

In the morning I was in the emergency room and after many tests, gall stones

were found. I had my gall bladder removed a week later and I thought for once I

could move on with my life. I was fine for a few months and then the same

stomach disorders returned. I was starting to believe it was all in my head.

---

She then goes on for more years with more problems, until she changes her diet.

It really is NOT an either/or

situation.

-- Heidi