Re: diet advice needed

[Guest guest]

Marcella,

Some of your problems I have no idea, but I'll try to throw in a few tidbits.

Before anything, if it makes you feel worse, don't do it. Maybe you *should*

be going easy on solid foods right now.

For candida, you might want to check out <A

HREF= " www.naturalhealingsolutions.com " >www.naturalhealingsolutions.com</A>. I

thought I might have had candida problems and didn't have luck on this

protocol, but I think that's because it isn't/wasn't candida. Many people have

amazing and quick success on this program. Evely, who used to be active

on

this list and still pops in from time to time, had amazing results with this

protocol.

Kefir and coconut oil should help candida as well.

Coconut oil and iodine are supposed to help hypothyroid. If you can handle

it eat more good salt (celtic sea salt or lima salt, etc) but more importantly

look into iodine supplementing. (If you are not already doing it.)

I wonder if you should try lacto-fermented foods like raw sauerkraut. I know

they've helped me a lot with digestion and might help your appetite, energy,

and ability to eat.

If you can I'd look into finding D.O. or a holistic M.D. Not that they're on

everyone's street corner.

I'm sure and I hope other folks can help more than me.

Chris

[Guest guest]

I completely forgot to mention the main thing I intended on writing--

If you are suffering from post-partum depression you should consider vitamin

A deficiency and should try supplementing with cod liver oil. If you have

trouble digesting it you could try fish liver oil-derived vitamin A supplements,

though CLO would be superior.

Vitamin A deficiency is strongly linked to post-partum depression, and

consumption of vitamin A-rich foods like shrimp are linked with lack of such

problems.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/03 8:05:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

christiekeith@... writes:

> Like said, good holistic doctors aren't hanging out on every street

> corner, but perhaps you could at least find a regular MD who would test your

> hormone levels.

By the way, I should point out that it might be easier to find a good doctor

than you think. DO's overrepresented in the primary care field, and

constitute 10% of family care doctors, and are also overrepresented in rural

areas and

economically disadvantaged areas. I don't know where you live Marcella, but

just throwing that out there since a lot of folks on this list live in rural

areas.

To find a DO, check out <A

HREF= " http://www.aacom.org/home-applicants/index.html " >Considering Your Medical

School Options</A> Never mind

the name of the link, it should be a link to an AOA database where you might

be able to find a DO near you.

DO's are fully licenced in all 50 states and DC to practice medicine. While

not every DO is the perfect doctor, your chances of getting a doctor who " gets

it " are much greater if you see a DO. Not only that, but DO's use cranial

osteopathy, a manipulative medicine which can be *very* powerful in adjusting

endocrine problems, in addition to musculo-skeletal problems.

> Diet will help with many of these problems. So will getting enough sleep,

> and avoiding excessive exposure to artificial light, both of which are hard to

> do with a new baby.

>

That reminds me. Do you wear glasses or contacts? If you wear either, or

sunglasses, you are depriving yourself of much-needed UV rays. These are

important to get both on skin and eyes, and have powerful effects on numerous

hormones. Sunlight on skin directly produces numerous hormones including

vitamin D

and adrenal hormones. Getting small amounts of skin-produced hormones may

help your adrenal glands rest and get themselves in order. This means sunlight

with no sunscreen (in amounts you know you can handle without getting burned),

as well as no contacts, glasses, or sunglasses. I wear glasses and recognize

this can be difficult, but I took Dr. Mercola up on his suggestion of getting

an hour of sunshine on bare eyes for sleeping and I feel it helped a lot. UV

rays on bare eyeballs directly effects pineal gland apparently right behind

the eye, and also seems to have a strong effect on parathyroid and some other

hormones, and the difference in hormone production can be manipulated simply by

wearing eyeglasses.

And I definitely second the suggestion on sleep.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/03 8:22:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Good point. I apparently forgot I'd intended to cover more territory than

> just digestion, because I sent off my message as soon as I finished with

> digestion, though Heidi's suggestion of a digestive enzyme supplement is a

> stunningly obvious one that I can't believe I forgot since I use one myself.

>

That happens to me all the time :-P

> I'd also recommend colloidal silver, though it can be tricky getting

> good-quality CS.

>

Russ Newman at <A

HREF= " www.naturalhealingsolutions.com " >www.naturalhealingsolutions.com</A> sells

CS for $104 per gallon

and it is apparently very high quality. He has his candida folks take 6 tbsp a

day while on the protocol. He sometimes has people eliminate severe systemic

infections in under a week, and generally always under a month, if the

problem is correctly diagnosed.

> And as you say, vitamin A could be very important, though I'd planned on

> suggesting liver as the best source. But shrimp are good.

I wasn't suggesting shrimp per se, but it was a recent study I'd seen that

connected sea food with post-partum depression. It was on Mercola's site and

lumped shrimp in with fish (though explicitly said shrimp and shellfish) and

attributed the effects to omega-3s. No doubt they'd help, another reason to

take

cod liver oil and knock out two birds with one stone, but I personally think

vitamin A is probably more important considering it necessity in hormone

conversions. Also, all Price's people had a high intake of n-3s *all* the time,

mostly from fish when they were coastal, but during preganancy they went out of

their way specifically to provide extra vitamin-A-rich foods, not omega-3 rich

foods.

> I believe vitamin D is also important for postpartum depression, so a good

> quality cod liver oil is probably essential, provided it's taken with a

> good-quality yellow grass-fed butter.

Ok, *three* birds with one stone! ;-) I think the X-Factor butter oil from

Wetzel Farms has helped me fight off my systemic infection better than

anything else. I strongly suggest

1)cod liver oil

2)Wetzel Farms X-Factor Butter Oil

3)Primal Defense from Garden of Life

as a basic foundation for *any* treatment plan.

(Two more things *I* forgot to mention!)

> Glandular supplements can also help, but I'd be venturing too far into

> areas which depend on more information we don't have if I continued in that

> vein.

lol!

chris

[Guest guest]

<<<I'm always chock full of suggestions, as many people in this group can no

doubt tell you. <g>>>

I will take all the suggestions I can get:)

>

> <<<First, try making some bone broths. If you don't have _Nourishing

> Traditions_, I strongly recommend you purchase a copy. It doesn't have all

> the answers to health problems, but it does have most of the answers to

> traditional cooking and food preparation questions, including stock

> making. You could try traditional chicken soup (but made with an NT-style

> chicken stock) and you should definitely try beef stock.>>>

I am making stock and have been getting some in almost every day over the

past week. I haven't today but I have some in the fridge. I have a chicken in a

pot on the stove right now. I do also have the book mentioned. I hope to buy

some beef bones to make beef broth.

>

> <<<Second, try eating some very rare or even raw ruminant meat (ruminants

> being the four-stomached grazing animals, such as cows, sheep, deer, and

> bison). Ideally this should be grass-fed meat, both for the health

> benefits and because of the drastically lower risk of food poisoning, but

> supermarket meat is tremendously better than no meat. Just get the best

> meat you can find and afford. You should try eating this meat with some

> homemade broth to aid digestion, particularly if you cook the meat.>>>

All I can get is hormone and antibiotic free beef right now . No, actually I

believe the " 's lean beef " in the store is supposed to be grassfed. I can

look into that. I can't really imagine eating it raw though. Any particular

amount a day? I have found that eating meat makes me tired.

>

> <<<Third, avoid foods which are (at least for now) difficult for you to

> handle. It sounds like that means you should cut out eggs, dairy, all

> refined sugar, all grains, and all legumes. You may well be able to add

> some of these foods back to your diet later, but for now, you're not up to

> handling them.>>>

I have been drinking raw milk for a while. But found it started to make me

feel funny in the head almost lightheaded after drinking it. I can have kefir

out of it and not have that happen.

>

> <<<Fourth, consume some lacto-fermented foods. These are probiotic foods

> and

> will not only aid digestion, they'll help repopulate your digestive system

> with beneficial organisms. Since you have difficulty with dairy, you

> should probably avoid yoghurt and kefir, two widely useful probiotic foods,

> but if you do want a dairy-based probiotic, culture yoghurt yourself for 24

> hours at 100-105 degrees to eliminate virtually all the

> lactose. Home-fermented sauerkraut or kimchi might be very useful, but

> it's not impossible that you'd initially have difficulty with the cabbage

> itself, in which case you could drink the liquid and, for kimchee, eat the

> other solids, while discarding the cabbage until your health has improved

> sufficiently to handle it.>>>

I just made some saurkraut last night. I had some yogurt today that I

cultured for over 24hours and it seemed to not affect me adversely. I haven't

made

kimchi before. I would like to try it. I was also going to try and make the

lactofermented cabbage juice in NT.

>

> <<<Fifth, look further into the possibility of a thyroid problem. The

> current

> guidelines for thyroid treatment are absurd, and leave legions of

> unfortunates untreated. One cheap and easy test you can perform yourself

> is the Basal Metabolism Test. Put a regular mercury thermometer by

> your bedside, and for three days running, put the thermometer into your

> armpit the moment you wake up, lie still and relaxed without talking or

> moving or doing anything else for ten minutes, and the record your

> temperature. If your three-day average is below 97.8 degrees, you probably

> have some degree of hypothyroidism. I believe women are supposed to

> perform the test during menstruation, but not on the first day, because of

> temperature fluctuations over the course of the month, but you should

> probably look into that yourself.>>>

I have been diagnosed as hypothyroid and take armour thyroid for it. I have

been on it for about 7 months and I don't see any change but I was taking it

during pregnancy and it is just hard to notice any difference in that area when

I had morning sickness till delivery. I have also just started taking

something desiccated for my adrenals. My temps have always been low. I can

remember it

being like that in elementary school.

> <<<I'm sure I and others will think of other things later, but partly that

> depends on you. Are you hypoglycemic? During what parts of the day do you

> have the most -- and the least -- energy? Do you have difficulty getting

> to sleep and waking up?>>>

I talked to Dr Marasco awhile back and he suggested I was hypoglycemic. I

agree with it. It appears to have gotten worse. I feel sick if I go to long

without something and often get a headache. Unfortunately that is usually my

signal

that I need to eat. I would say late afternoon/early evening is when I have

the least energy. I often end up so tired I can not stay awake. I will just

fall asleep. I can't keep my eyes open. That doesn't work too well when you have

children 3 and under. I have often had to drag them all into their room and

lock the door before falling asleep on their bed. I have the most energy late in

the evening when I need to be getting to bed. No guesses about the side pain?

Thanks for the suggestions.

Marcella

>

>

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/03 8:53:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

antioecumenist@... writes:

> I have the most energy late in

> the evening when I need to be getting to bed.

This is another sine of hypoadrenal I read recently. Too bad it's so

inconvenient to nap, but it would help a lot. If you can manage, I've read

laying

down on your back for periods during the day can help the adrenals rest, short

of a nap.

Chris

[Guest guest]

<<<For candida, you might want to check out <A

HREF= " www.naturalhealingsolutions.com " >www.naturalhealingsolutions.com</A>. I

thought I might have had candida problems and didn't have luck on this

protocol, but I think that's because it isn't/wasn't candida. Many people

have

amazing and quick success on this program. Evely, who used to be

active on

this list and still pops in from time to time, had amazing results with this

protocol. >>>

Thanks, I will check this out. I know it is candida for sure.

>

> <<Kefir and coconut oil should help candida as well.

>

> Coconut oil and iodine are supposed to help hypothyroid. If you can handle

> it eat more good salt (celtic sea salt or lima salt, etc) but more

> importantly

> look into iodine supplementing. (If you are not already doing it.)>>

I have been getting coconut milk in with my chicken broth using that recipe

in NT. I hate the taste of cocunut oil though. Maybe it is just the brand I

have. I was just reading about iodine supplementing and then I read that Armour

thyroid has iodine in it. I don't want to overdo the iodine? I have also been

using fish sauce in my broth. But keep in mind I have only been doing this

going on two weeks.

>

> <<I wonder if you should try lacto-fermented foods like raw sauerkraut. I

> know

> they've helped me a lot with digestion and might help your appetite, energy,

> and ability to eat.>>

I had been drinking beet kvass but ran out and need to make more.

Thanks,

Marcella

>

> If you can I'd look into finding D.O. or a holistic M.D. Not that they're

> on

> everyone's street corner.

>

> I'm sure and I hope other folks can help more than me.

>

> Chris

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<<I feel you DO need a doctor. A really good, competent, caring doctor who

will evaluate your hormone levels (not just thyroid). I don't know why hormones

are such a big mystery to doctors - it's like you want them to translate the

Rosetta stone for you! But I am concerned with the severity of your symptoms,

and the possible hormonal cause of virutally everything you mention (digestive

problems, postpartum depression, inappetance, candida, etc).>>>

I have been seeing an MD for my thyroid. What causes lack of appetite?

>

> <<<Like said, good holistic doctors aren't hanging out on every street

> corner, but perhaps you could at least find a regular MD who would test your

> hormone levels. This would at least give you an idea of what's going on with

> your thyroid, adrenals (many people who are actually OVER-producing

> cortisiol diagnose themselves with " adrenal depletion " and can really mess

themselves

> up), sex hormones - estrogen and progesterone imbalances which are common

> post-partum (too much progesterone can cause depression, but so can rapidly

> rising and falling estrogen. Steady high levels of estrogen generally make you

> feel GOOD, but if your levels are all over the place, you can feel bad,

> ranging from a bit blue to full on post-partum psychosis). Plus someone asked

about

> sleep - sleep hormones should be looked at. Then there are the digestive

> hormones like insulin, which is closely related to cortisol.>>>

What hormones should I ask him to test? estrogen, progesterone, insulin? What

sleep hormones? He used kinesiology to tell me my adrenals were out of wack.

I don't know what I think of that. He seems open to alot things and is

definitely pro meat eating and recommended I cut out grains. I saw another Dr

here in

Atlanta years ago, a naturopath, but he is outrageously expensive. I simply

can afford to spend a few hundred dollars evertime I walk in the door.

>

> <<<<Diet will help with many of these problems. So will getting enough

> sleep, and avoiding excessive exposure to artificial light, both of which are

hard

> to do with a new baby.

>

> I hope you can find a caring health care professional who can help you with

> this. I wouldn't try to do this on your own, or at least, not until you have

> a firmer picture of what exactly is going on.

>

> All my best wishes,

>

> Christie >>>>

>

>

> Thanks!

>

> Marcella

[Guest guest]

<<<When you say you have gluten " allergy " exactly how do you mean? Have

you had any testing done? Gluten intolerance is really a different animal

from other food intolerances.>>>

The naturopath I mentioned before told me I was allergic/sensitive to wheat.

About a year ago I tried an elimination diet and found myself extremely

sensitive to anything with gluten in it. I added brown rice back I my diet also

and

though I didn't have as sever a reaction I started to feel worse after

including it. I discovered that eliminating the gluten took care of my

depression in

a way antipdepressants never had. It was the first time I had felt good in as

long as I good remember but I added rice back in and gradually felt worse and

worse and have found it next to impossible to totally eliminate the gluten

ever since but I am at a point where I just have to and am.

>

> <<<I say this because people with gluten intolerance (IgA reaction) produce

> a lot of nasty antibodies, which commonly lead to damaged thyroid,

> adrenals, pancreas, and gall bladder. And other nasty stuff. They are also

> more prone to easier allergies to eggs, yeast, and milk. They commonly

> cannot digest fats (pancreatic and gall bladder damage, and low stomach

> acid). Abdominal pain is common. So is candida, dermatitis, bloating,

> and various gut problems (diarrhea or constipation), depression, anger,

> GERD, nerve problems, and canker sores.>>>

Sounds familiar. I had a little wheat once and got a canker sore.

>

> <<<Getting rid of the gluten DOES NOT cure the other problems necessarily.

> People I

> know from those groups use a lot of different therapies to get their

> health back, and it can take a long time.>>>

>

> Well, that is just really depressing! What is a long time?

<<<Having a baby makes it worse.>>>

How about 3 , 3 and under.

> <<<I'd suggest doing some research if you haven't already or joining a

> list group on gluten intolerance (there is a good one at Delphi). The other

> problem is that to be cured, you would need a *zero* gluten diet, and

> that is very difficult, because it exists in many foods you would not

> expect and is not necessarily on the label. Even if it is on the label, foods

> become contaminated -- even from the toaster oven, if it has been used

> for gluten-containing foods in the past.>>>

>

> I will look into Delphi. Any other suggestions?

>

> <<<The other allergens, like eggs, can cause similar reactions but they

> don't seem to be *quite* as problematic, and they are easier to avoid.

>

> Some things that seem to help:

>

> -- Taking Bio-gest. It has enzymes to help digest food and increase

> stomach acid. Kimchi with meals helps a LOT also, and kimchi is cheap

> to make.

> -- Less oils. Coconut oil is the most digestible.

> -- Probiotics (which you are doing).

> -- Eating a very restricted diet for awhile.>>>

Any cocunut oils that don't taste so coconutty?

>

> <<<Since you reacted to salmon cakes, what did you use to hold them

> together? Most of the recipes I have use flour of some kind, or bread

> crumbs. Many flours contain gluten (cross-contamination). Rice also

> commonly contains gluten, because they use " starch " instead of talc

> to keep it from sticking together nowadays. One manufacturer said

> specifically that their brown rice contained gluten, but didn't say

> why. In any case, brown rice causes a reaction in us, so I don't use it.>>>

I held them together with just eggs. They probably would have benefitted

taste wise from some flour but I didn't want to use any and my kids did like

them.

>

> <<<When you stop eating allergens of any type, lack of appetite is

> fairly common. I'm not sure why that happens. I also went into

> a fog for about a week, giving up gluten. Again, I don't know why.

> But, if that is the problem you should be feeling better soon.>>>

Ok, that is good to hear.

Thanks,

Marcella

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> <<<I completely forgot to mention the main thing I intended on writing--

>

> If you are suffering from post-partum depression you should consider vitamin

> A deficiency and should try supplementing with cod liver oil. If you have

> trouble digesting it you could try fish liver oil-derived vitamin A

> supplements,

> though CLO would be superior.

>

> Vitamin A deficiency is strongly linked to post-partum depression, and

> consumption of vitamin A-rich foods like shrimp are linked with lack of such

> problems.>>>

I have been taking cod liver oil and salmon oil throughout my pregnancy and

still take it. I just got some Premier cod liver oil today though and was

shocked at how clear it is. The cod liver oil I had was orangish. I was using

some

from GNLD and they aren't too cheap. Why the difference in color?

Marcella

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

:

> <<<I'd also recommend colloidal silver, though it can be tricky getting

> good-quality CS.>>>

>

> I have been kind of hesitant about colloidal silver.

>

> Marcella

[Guest guest]

<<<By the way, I should point out that it might be easier to find a good

doctor

than you think. DO's overrepresented in the primary care field, and

constitute 10% of family care doctors, and are also overrepresented in rural

areas and

economically disadvantaged areas. I don't know where you live Marcella, but

just throwing that out there since a lot of folks on this list live in rural

areas.>>>

I will check into this. I live northeast of Atlanta.

>

>

>

> <<<That reminds me. Do you wear glasses or contacts? If you wear either,

> or

> sunglasses, you are depriving yourself of much-needed UV rays. These are

> important to get both on skin and eyes, and have powerful effects on

> numerous

> hormones. Sunlight on skin directly produces numerous hormones including

> vitamin D

> and adrenal hormones. Getting small amounts of skin-produced hormones may

> help your adrenal glands rest and get themselves in order. This means

> sunlight

> with no sunscreen (in amounts you know you can handle without getting

> burned),

> as well as no contacts, glasses, or sunglasses. I wear glasses and

> recognize

> this can be difficult, but I took Dr. Mercola up on his suggestion of

> getting

> an hour of sunshine on bare eyes for sleeping and I feel it helped a lot.

> UV

> rays on bare eyeballs directly effects pineal gland apparently right behind

> the eye, and also seems to have a strong effect on parathyroid and some

> other

> hormones, and the difference in hormone production can be manipulated simply

> by

> wearing eyeglasses.

>

> And I definitely second the suggestion on sleep.>>>

I don't wear either. I was about to go ahead and call in for antidepressants

but decided I would give it another week and go outside everyday, aim for an

hour, and take a 15-20 min walk. And it made the difference. I don't feel the

need for any medication. The depression is much much better if I do that. I

try to get enough sleep but it is not all that easy to do with a 5 week old. My

husband does most of the night time baby care and last night the baby went 7

hours between feedings which is great. The longest stretch we normally get is

5-6 hours and that is not all sleep.

Marcella

>

> Chris

[Guest guest]

> <<<Ok, *three* birds with one stone! ;-) I think the X-Factor butter oil

> from

> Wetzel Farms has helped me fight off my systemic infection better than

> anything else. I strongly suggest

>

> 1)cod liver oil

> 2)Wetzel Farms X-Factor Butter Oil

> 3)Primal Defense from Garden of Life

>

> as a basic foundation for *any* treatment plan.

>

> (Two more things *I* forgot to mention!) >>>

These are all very expensive except maybe the cod liver oil. I just saw the

primal defense at the store yesterday and it was, I believe, $50 for a bottle.

I did just find a bottle of the Wetzel butter oil in my freezer that I had

forgotten about though. It is a shame it requires so much money to eat healthy

or

to get well.

Marcella

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marcella-

>Don't ask me what it was I have never heard of it

>before. Any suggestions? I am tired of feeling tired. I need to eat but most

>of what I do makes me sick and tired.

I'm always chock full of suggestions, as many people in this group can no

doubt tell you. <g>

I think there's definitely something to the idea that chronic fatigue

springs from impaired digestion, though it's not the whole story, as

thyroid and other problems can be more or less unrelated to digestion, so

you should definitely address your digestion.

First, try making some bone broths. If you don't have _Nourishing

Traditions_, I strongly recommend you purchase a copy. It doesn't have all

the answers to health problems, but it does have most of the answers to

traditional cooking and food preparation questions, including stock

making. You could try traditional chicken soup (but made with an NT-style

chicken stock) and you should definitely try beef stock.

Second, try eating some very rare or even raw ruminant meat (ruminants

being the four-stomached grazing animals, such as cows, sheep, deer, and

bison). Ideally this should be grass-fed meat, both for the health

benefits and because of the drastically lower risk of food poisoning, but

supermarket meat is tremendously better than no meat. Just get the best

meat you can find and afford. You should try eating this meat with some

homemade broth to aid digestion, particularly if you cook the meat.

Third, avoid foods which are (at least for now) difficult for you to

handle. It sounds like that means you should cut out eggs, dairy, all

refined sugar, all grains, and all legumes. You may well be able to add

some of these foods back to your diet later, but for now, you're not up to

handling them.

Fourth, consume some lacto-fermented foods. These are probiotic foods and

will not only aid digestion, they'll help repopulate your digestive system

with beneficial organisms. Since you have difficulty with dairy, you

should probably avoid yoghurt and kefir, two widely useful probiotic foods,

but if you do want a dairy-based probiotic, culture yoghurt yourself for 24

hours at 100-105 degrees to eliminate virtually all the

lactose. Home-fermented sauerkraut or kimchi might be very useful, but

it's not impossible that you'd initially have difficulty with the cabbage

itself, in which case you could drink the liquid and, for kimchee, eat the

other solids, while discarding the cabbage until your health has improved

sufficiently to handle it.

Fifth, look further into the possibility of a thyroid problem. The current

guidelines for thyroid treatment are absurd, and leave legions of

unfortunates untreated. One cheap and easy test you can perform yourself

is the Basal Metabolism Test. Put a regular mercury thermometer by

your bedside, and for three days running, put the thermometer into your

armpit the moment you wake up, lie still and relaxed without talking or

moving or doing anything else for ten minutes, and the record your

temperature. If your three-day average is below 97.8 degrees, you probably

have some degree of hypothyroidism. I believe women are supposed to

perform the test during menstruation, but not on the first day, because of

temperature fluctuations over the course of the month, but you should

probably look into that yourself.

I'm sure I and others will think of other things later, but partly that

depends on you. Are you hypoglycemic? During what parts of the day do you

have the most -- and the least -- energy? Do you have difficulty getting

to sleep and waking up?

-

[Guest guest]

>> I know y'all aren't

Dr's. I am not looking for one. I just need ideas of what I can do myself. <<

Marcella, you've gotten some good advice, and this is by way of adding to it

rather than instead of it.

I feel you DO need a doctor. A really good, competent, caring doctor who will

evaluate your hormone levels (not just thyroid). I don't know why hormones are

such a big mystery to doctors - it's like you want them to translate the Rosetta

stone for you! But I am concerned with the severity of your symptoms, and the

possible hormonal cause of virutally everything you mention (digestive problems,

postpartum depression, inappetance, candida, etc).

Like said, good holistic doctors aren't hanging out on every street

corner, but perhaps you could at least find a regular MD who would test your

hormone levels. This would at least give you an idea of what's going on with

your thyroid, adrenals (many people who are actually OVER-producing cortisiol

diagnose themselves with " adrenal depletion " and can really mess themselves up),

sex hormones - estrogen and progesterone imbalances which are common post-partum

(too much progesterone can cause depression, but so can rapidly rising and

falling estrogen. Steady high levels of estrogen generally make you feel GOOD,

but if your levels are all over the place, you can feel bad, ranging from a bit

blue to full on post-partum psychosis). Plus someone asked about sleep - sleep

hormones should be looked at. Then there are the digestive hormones like

insulin, which is closely related to cortisol.

Diet will help with many of these problems. So will getting enough sleep, and

avoiding excessive exposure to artificial light, both of which are hard to do

with a new baby.

I hope you can find a caring health care professional who can help you with

this. I wouldn't try to do this on your own, or at least, not until you have a

firmer picture of what exactly is going on.

All my best wishes,

Christie

[Guest guest]

>. I have alot of food allergies such as

>gluten, citrus and dairy in different forms. I have systemic candida also. I

>have been off all grains and sugars including fruit for the past few weeks with

>the exceptions of brown rice twice and a handful of blackberries and

>blueberries I picked. I have been on Nystatin for 2 weeks and have had garlic

tablets

>since and it is not treating the candida. It seems the only way I can feel

>good is to not eat anything. I had some sardines earlier and felt fine after

>eating them. Later this evening I had some salmon cakes with egg in them. I

have

>a headache and achey joints and pain in my side now. I have wondered if I was

>allergic to eggs for a while. I haven't had any for well over a week till now.

>Maybe it was the salmon? I have felt MUCH better since eating pretty much

>only vegetable juices, broths, kefir or yoghurt and only a little bit of solid

>foods. But I have no appetite. I have never felt this way before. I really only

>remember to eat when I find myself fealing dizzy or lightheaded. It concerns

>me having no appetite for food. I have some postpartum depression but I have

>dealt with depression before and it never caused a lack of appetite.

When you say you have gluten " allergy " exactly how do you mean? Have

you had any testing done? Gluten intolerance is really a different animal

from other food intolerances.

I say this because people with gluten intolerance (IgA reaction) produce

a lot of nasty antibodies, which commonly lead to damaged thyroid,

adrenals, pancreas, and gall bladder. And other nasty stuff. They are also

more prone to easier allergies to eggs, yeast, and milk. They commonly

cannot digest fats (pancreatic and gall bladder damage, and low stomach

acid). Abdominal pain is common. So is candida, dermatitis, bloating,

and various gut problems (diarrhea or constipation), depression, anger,

GERD, nerve problems, and canker sores.

Getting rid of the gluten DOES NOT cure the other problems necessarily. People I

know from those groups use a lot of different therapies to get their

health back, and it can take a long time. Having a baby makes it worse.

I'd suggest doing some research if you haven't already or joining a

list group on gluten intolerance (there is a good one at Delphi). The other

problem is that to be cured, you would need a *zero* gluten diet, and

that is very difficult, because it exists in many foods you would not

expect and is not necessarily on the label. Even if it is on the label, foods

become contaminated -- even from the toaster oven, if it has been used

for gluten-containing foods in the past.

The other allergens, like eggs, can cause similar reactions but they

don't seem to be *quite* as problematic, and they are easier to avoid.

Some things that seem to help:

-- Taking Bio-gest. It has enzymes to help digest food and increase

stomach acid. Kimchi with meals helps a LOT also, and kimchi is cheap

to make.

-- Less oils. Coconut oil is the most digestible.

-- Probiotics (which you are doing).

-- Eating a very restricted diet for awhile.

Since you reacted to salmon cakes, what did you use to hold them

together? Most of the recipes I have use flour of some kind, or bread

crumbs. Many flours contain gluten (cross-contamination). Rice also

commonly contains gluten, because they use " starch " instead of talc

to keep it from sticking together nowadays. One manufacturer said

specifically that their brown rice contained gluten, but didn't say

why. In any case, brown rice causes a reaction in us, so I don't use it.

When you stop eating allergens of any type, lack of appetite is

fairly common. I'm not sure why that happens. I also went into

a fog for about a week, giving up gluten. Again, I don't know why.

But, if that is the problem you should be feeling better soon.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Vitamin A deficiency is strongly linked to post-partum depression, and

>consumption of vitamin A-rich foods like shrimp are linked with lack of such

>problems.

Good point. I apparently forgot I'd intended to cover more territory than

just digestion, because I sent off my message as soon as I finished with

digestion, though Heidi's suggestion of a digestive enzyme supplement is a

stunningly obvious one that I can't believe I forgot since I use one myself.

I'd also recommend colloidal silver, though it can be tricky getting

good-quality CS.

And as you say, vitamin A could be very important, though I'd planned on

suggesting liver as the best source. But shrimp are good.

I believe vitamin D is also important for postpartum depression, so a good

quality cod liver oil is probably essential, provided it's taken with a

good-quality yellow grass-fed butter.

Glandular supplements can also help, but I'd be venturing too far into

areas which depend on more information we don't have if I continued in that

vein.

-

[Guest guest]

Get your hands on 'How We Heal' by on (North Atlantic Books)

Bellanger

Melb, Aust

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to

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[Guest guest]

>> I have been seeing an MD for my thyroid. What causes lack of appetite? <<

Low or dropping cortisol, insulin and blood sugar swings (high OR low can cause

lack of appetite, depending on other factors), weight loss (if it's body fat

being lost, not necessarily a bad thing if you have excess stored body fat, but

not the best thing in the world for a nursing mom), estrogen swings, candida

die-off, and also overgrowth of other pathogens - remember that pregnancy is a

time of mild immune suppression, and insufficient sleep also slightly depresses

the immune system. You mentioned that you had changed your diet, but I don't

recall what changes you made - did you cut out any major sources of carbs? If

so, that can cause candida to die, can cause your body to release stored

estrogen, and the immune system is slightly depressed when body fat is burned

also. I wouldn't rule out some kind of systemic overgrowth of pathogens, some of

which release toxins that cause extreme fatigue and nausea. (Are you nauseated

or just inappetant?)

>> What hormones should I ask him to test? estrogen, progesterone, insulin? What

sleep hormones? He used kinesiology to tell me my adrenals were out of wack.

I don't know what I think of that. <<

I think it's a poor substitute for blood tests. I had a vet once who was a

genius with applied kinesiology, so I do believe in it, but I don't believe in

using it as a sole diagnostic tool when there are other more objective methods

available. And IMO many of those who use this as a method don't actually know

what they are doing. So I tend to doubt it, in general. Many so-called holistic

practicioners seem to think EVERYONE'S adrenals are screwed up, and indeed,

probably they are. But I'd want to know what stage of adrenal problems I'm at,

rather than a blanket " whacked out. " Are you producing too much cortisol, or too

little, being a good, basic place to start.

I would ask for a complete endocrine panel including sex hormones. These are

blood tests. Fertility clinics do sex hormone panels all the time, they are

highly reliable and widely available. I'm not sure why so many doctors are

averse to doing them or think they are unreliable or, in the case of those who

lean more toward alternative practice, why they seem to prefer the

much-less-reliable saliva tests. (If saliva tests were as reliable as blood

tests, fertility clinics would use them.) You want to know if your own estrogens

(you have more than one kind) and progesterone are at optimum levels - not just

within the lab's " normal " range, but actually optimum for your age.

Sex hormones to check include:

FSH (follilcle stimulating hormone)

Estradiol (one of the estrogens)

Estriol (another estrogen)

Testosterone

Progesterone

DHEA

Usually the blood should be drawn on day 3 of your menstrual cycle.

You can also get an adrenal panel, a thyroid panel (which you seem to already be

handling - is your doctor monitoring your TSH levels and have they always been

normal since you've been on supplementation?), and if you want, a melatonin

(sleep hormone) panel, although unless you suspect a sleeping disorder I think

that can be skipped also. Some DHEA panels include estradiol and testosterone,

as DHEA converts to those hormones, so be careful when pricing the tests that

the doctor realizes that and isn't adding up the same test more than once.

Adrenal stress profiles come in a variety of packages, including some that chart

the overall adrenal hormones over a time period. These panels often include

DHEA, Estradiol, Testosterone, and Melatonin, so again, don't get double

charged.

The tests for digestive hormones and blood sugar are widely available. If you

are diagnosed hypoglycemic, I presume you've had blood sugar tests done already?

Or was this just diagnosed with either AK or based on symptoms?

I know most, or many, doctors will want to put you on hormone supplementation

based on the results of these tests, and I do think in severe imbalances that's

not a bad idea, as long as you are using natural, bio-identical human hormones

and not horse hormones like Premarin and its ilk. Some severe cases of

post-partum depression, even post-partum psychosis, have responded to

appropriate and monitored hormone therapy - even cases that were barely managed,

or not managed at all, by anti-depressants. But I also believe that with

appropriate nutrition, exercise, fresh air, sunshine, and sleep, and other

complementary therapies that can include acupunture, homeopathy, supplements,

glandulars, etc, balance can be restored on its own. It depends on what is

comfortable for you and what you want, and how good your doctor is at monitoring

hormone levels. It's an art.

One other thing - I don't know if it's significant, but in one study, patients

on Armour thyroid had high levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (a bad thing),

but I honestly don't know what the effect of that would be. I do like that

Armour has both T3 and T4, but it IS pig thyroid, so I wonder if its benefit is

more from including both T3 and T4 (unlike Synthroid which is just T3), or

because it's " natural. "

I am sure there are those on this list who know more about hormones than I do. I

just know enough to know that hormones do everything and that everything affects

them. <G>

>> I simply

can afford to spend a few hundred dollars evertime I walk in the door. <<

I tend to want to get as much information as I can from all the diagnostics that

are available that I can afford. I hate it when doctors do things in dribbles. I

want everything laid out for me, and then I like to decide for myself what I'm

going to do about it. Cost is a definite factor, as even if you have insurance

it's not certain it will cover all these tests. That is something I can't

answer.

You mentioned in a later post that you are depressed, and that you have three

children under three. My guess is that you are severely sleep deprived. Sleep

deprivation has been proven again and again to disrupt all phases of the

endocrine system - sex hormones, sleep hormones, digestive hormones, stress

hormones. I don't know how to suggest you get more sleep, as most moms I know

are chronically sleep-deprived, but none of them that I know personally has

symptoms that sound as serious to me as yours do.

Take care,

Christie

[Guest guest]

Marcella,

To add to what has been said about hormones, I'd like to recommend

reading an interview with Dr. Plechner at Keep Hope Alive site. Go to

http://www.keephope.net/j20031.html and search for " ADRENAL/THYROID

HORMONE IMBALANCES AND DEFICITS " . This is unusual and reportedly very

effective. An intro to it can be found by searching for " Chronic fatigue

(syndrome) slows me down " .

If you are going to get colloidal silver, a good place to get info about

it is http://silverlist.org/

Roman

[Guest guest]

> look into iodine supplementing. (If you are not already doing it.)>>

>>>>.... I was just reading about iodine supplementing and then I read that

Armour

thyroid has iodine in it. I don't want to overdo the iodine? I have also

been

using fish sauce in my broth. But keep in mind I have only been doing this

going on two weeks.

----->i am just now reading this thread and am afraid i don't have much to

offer, but send my best wishes for your recovery :-) you've gotten so much

helpful advice alreadly from chris and everyone else. but i do want to

mention that i've been told by my holistic vet/ND that *too much* iodine can

cause thyroid problems as well as too little. i've heard the same thing from

a number of folks on the pet health lists, although haven't read any primary

references on it. so, before adding more iodine to your diet, you might

want to research it a little and perhaps discuss it with the health care

professional who prescribed the armour, to be on the safe side.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/03 9:55:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

antioecumenist@... writes:

> These are all very expensive except maybe the cod liver oil. I just saw the

>

> primal defense at the store yesterday and it was, I believe, $50 for a

> bottle.

> I did just find a bottle of the Wetzel butter oil in my freezer that I had

> forgotten about though. It is a shame it requires so much money to eat

> healthy or

> to get well.

That's too much for Primal Defense unless it is a bigger bottle than mine. I

payed around 30 for it. Order it online maybe. I got mine from <A

HREF= " www.primaldefense.net " >

www.primaldefense.net</A>

Chris

[Guest guest]

I don't know why the cod liver oil would be orange, but vitamin A is not

organge, only carotenes are. Vitamin A in cod liver oil is destroyed in

processing including molecular distillation (which is done to remove heavy

metals) and

it appears most brands either only contain a small fraction of what they

claim, or are adding synthetic A back to the oil. It could be the brand you

were

using was adding carotenes back to the oil, so they could call it " vitamin A "

on the label, which would be worthless to you at this point.

Unfortunately it is not clear which brands are good for vitamin A.

Carlson's, otherwise a great brand, has been tested at 25% of the vitamin A they

claim

is in it. (This is from private discussion with Jordan Rubin of Garden of

Life). Unfortuantely the discussion didn't go deep enough to talk about other

brands, and I don't remember whether he had Priemer tested or what he found.

Because I trust Radiant Life and et al's conscientiousness, I trust

this brand right now over all the other ones. I'm not sure what processing

Primier does, but they don't *say* they do molecular distillation, they just

*say* they " test " the oil and it comes up consistently negative for metals. So

that might be positive.

When Garden of Life comes out with their product I would put a lot of trust

in it because the whole entire reason they are coming out with their own cod

liver oil is *because* of this very problem. And they do all their *own*

testing (which costs loads of money).

If it is true you are vitamin A deficient (very unlikely you aren't), then a

serving of cod liver oil a day wouldn't be enough necessarily, perhaps even if

it had all the vitamin A claimed. Should be used with other foods I think,

like said, like shrimp, liver, etc. Problem is can you digest these

foods.

This goes hand in hand with what Christie has been saying. Hormones, I think

all of them but most of them anyway, have cholesterol as their " mother " and

go through many, many conversions to get to their active form. Vitamin A is

used in every single conversion step. It is impossible to achieve hormonal

balance without sufficient Vitamin A.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 7/11/03 8:53:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> antioecumenist@w... writes:

>

> > I have the most energy late in

> > the evening when I need to be getting to bed.

>

> This is another sine of hypoadrenal I read recently. Too bad it's

so

> inconvenient to nap, but it would help a lot.

Really? I also get very tired in the early evening and am buzzing

when it actually reaches bedtime. My own theory on this is that

obviously, when you get tired, your body is telling you to sleep. If

you don't sleep it's emergency reserves kick in to keep you awake and

functioning. The emergency reserve being adrenalin. I also find

that when I fight through the tiredness barrier, I get hungry, which

is my body calling out for the energy required to keep me going when

I should be fast asleep!

Jo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/11/03 11:07:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ----->i am just now reading this thread and am afraid i don't have much to

> offer, but send my best wishes for your recovery :-) you've gotten so much

> helpful advice alreadly from chris and everyone else. but i do want to

> mention that i've been told by my holistic vet/ND that *too much* iodine can

> cause thyroid problems as well as too little. i've heard the same thing from

> a number of folks on the pet health lists, although haven't read any primary

> references on it. so, before adding more iodine to your diet, you might

> want to research it a little and perhaps discuss it with the health care

> professional who prescribed the armour, to be on the safe side.

>

According to Kat (I think it was her... iirc) you can test your iodine status

by rubbing some on your inner thigh. If you are deficient, the iodine will

disappear fairly quickly. This seems like a better way of testing than hair or

serum or whatever else, because it takes into account bioindividuality.

Chris