Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Chris- >I agree unless the tooth is dead. There's really no way to know at all >without getting them checked. Really! Never having gone in for dentistry, I didn't know it could be dead without obvious visual (and olfactory) signs. You mean a tooth can be normal white or off-white for an extended period of time after dying? That seems counterintuitive enough that I'll actually remember it. <g> - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Lynn- >Now, AVOIDING the problem in the first place--that's an area that's up >for debate! Don't crash diet is the best advice I can give on that >one from my research. I never suggested avoiding the problem. I specifically recommended that Marcella get it checked out. However, I remain skeptical that her gall bladder would actually have to come out, and I know that the admonition against crash dieting is not strictly accurate. Many people have indeed had their gall bladders out after very rapid weight loss, but AFAIK those were all people who followed a more or less conventional weight-loss strategy -- IOW fat and calorie reduction as opposed to carb reduction and eating to satiation. Many people have lost weight just as quickly on a low-carb regimen without irritating their gall bladders at all. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 04:24 PM, Idol wrote: > Lynn- > >> Now, AVOIDING the problem in the first place--that's an area that's up >> for debate! Don't crash diet is the best advice I can give on that >> one from my research. > > I never suggested avoiding the problem. I specifically recommended > that > Marcella get it checked out. No, no, I meant not getting gallstones in the first place--avoiding getting gallstones. > However, I remain skeptical that her gall bladder would actually have > to > come out, and I know that the admonition against crash dieting is not > strictly accurate. Many people have indeed had their gall bladders out > after very rapid weight loss, but AFAIK those were all people who > followed > a more or less conventional weight-loss strategy -- IOW fat and calorie > reduction as opposed to carb reduction and eating to satiation. Many > people have lost weight just as quickly on a low-carb regimen without > irritating their gall bladders at all. Point taken. Lynn S. ----- Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/ Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 >> I'm not making any claim for the accuracy of this statement and am certainly not claiming I can give dietary advice to someone with this problem, just pointing out that the low-fat recommendations may be misguided and this other theory exists. << I think the only benefit of the low fat advice is to temporarily stop the gall bladder from spasming until you can find a more permanent solution. I damaged my body hideously in my attempts to save my gall bladder, eating only 12 grams of fat a day for an extended period of time. And I was a vegetarian. Can you say " carbohydrate poisoning " ? Can you say " insulin resistance " ? I agree that eating a diet high in healthy fats is good medicine for the gall bladder. I just think that it causes the gall bladder to spasm, which is painful and potentially dangerous for someone with gall bladder disease/stones of a certain severity. So, I don't think anyone is going to say that eating fat CAUSES gall bladder disease. I think it can just irritate an already-highly-compromised gall bladder. Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 > So, I don't think anyone is going to say that eating fat CAUSES gall > bladder disease. I think it can just irritate an > already-highly-compromised gall bladder. Just so. Lynn S. ----- Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/ Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 > Oh, I know folks don't say that. But Tom Cowan believes eating > enormous > quantites of animal fat and cholesterol REVERSES gall bladder disease. That may be correct, I mean, the cholesterol-hoarding theory makes sense to me. But I don' t know if I would've survived the cure; I think I would've jumped off a bridge before I got better. Lynn S. ----- Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/ Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 >Alternatively, take your own stuff and make a point of eating >it at the same time as everyone else to show how seriously you take >your own health (if you take it seriously, then they should) I do this at most family get-togethers: my relatives are not inconsiderate, but cooking gluten free is just difficult at best. Anyway, I usually bring something like cookies or pecan pie -- which usually takes over, because most people don't actually COOK anymore. Bringing your own food makes three statements: 1. That you care about your health (and theirs: by all means share it!) and 2. That cooking " well " also tastes better and 3. That you are not doing this to be self-flagellating and monastic, you are doing just fine thank you! When people hear the word " diet " they think you are into self-denial or something, and try to talk you out of it, but once they taste the difference they tend to come around. I wouldn't recommend bringing boiled tongue though ;-) -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote: > However, Tom Cowan presented his theory that gall stones form from a > deficiency of animal fat and cholesterol, as a way of preserving the cholesterol in a > recent Wise Traditions and suggested eating lots and lots of it. He said he's > treated people with this advice, and has observed two cases where gall stones > were reversed through diet alone by eating enormous quantities of animal fat > and cholesterol. Thanks for the info. Did he say how much is the enormous quantities? Roman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 >> Perhaps this could be more or less dangerous depending on how far along it is. But he is saying that low-fat or cholesterol deficiency is exactly what can cause gall stones. That the gall bladder creates gall stones as a way of conserving cholesterol just like in starvation mode you create fat to conserve calories rather than expending them. And if you don't eat, sometimes eating more or more regularly can alone help you lose some weight. << I think that is very true, I don't dispute it at all. I simply know that the unbelievable pain of a diseased, stone-loaded gallbladder contracting after eating fat (anything more than 10 grams at a time makes it spasm) is just so severe it's not a practical strategy once the damage is done. I'm sure there are those who can reverse their gallbladder disease. I couldn't. And eating fat might have helped me at some point but it was impossible in the end. The pain was too severe. By " severe " I mean doubled over screaming. Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 In a message dated 7/13/03 11:45:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, romeml@... writes: > Thanks for the info. Did he say how much is the enormous quantities? It's in the Spring 2003 Wise Traditions. He doesn't give speciic ammounts. " So what should you do? First, do not believe that your gall bladder is diseased! Second, give yor body what it needs, in this case more cholesterol. Once your body is convinced that you are serious and will provide it with a steady stream of cholesterol, which it desperately needs to stay alive, it will give up the flawed strategy of storing extra, the stones will dissolve and you will be well again. I know of two people who adopted this strategy, and within a year their stones completely dissolved. Actually, you might want to thank your gall bladder for devising such an innovative strategy for keeping you alive until you learned how to eat in a way that provides your body with the materials it needs to be healthy. " The best way to provide your gall bladder with cholesterol is to eat plenty of animal fats. If you eat a lot of vegetable oils and trans fats, the gall bladder is likely to become inflamed. " Tom Cowan in as MD and supervises patients, some of whom presumably have gall stones. Presumably he is not deliberately trying to kill them, so I wouldn't necessarily dismiss his comments/observations off-hand. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I would try the Liver/Gallbladder cleanse on curezone.com before you go to the medical establishment and they remove your gallbladder. Many galbladders have been saved by it. Re: diet advice needed > had heard recommended to get in alot of raw > fats. I had raw cream, butter, a little coconut oil, a raw egg yolk > and some > frozen strawberries and stevia. I spent hours, most of the day, in > pain and had > diarrhea. My mom actually came over to watch the kids so my husband > could go to > work. Ok, so that is really not normal. I guess you have a point. I had > forgotten about that. Could that be gallbladder? I just thought it was > an allergic > reaction to something I had eaten. Marcella, this is a classic case of cholecystitis--gallbladder trouble--I'm telling you, you've got to get an ultrasound asap before you end up in the ER. I am betting you have that gallbladder removed before the end of the year. THIS IS NOT AN ALLERGY. Lynn S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 > That may be correct, I mean, the cholesterol-hoarding theory makes > sense to me. But I don' t know if I would've survived the cure; I think > I would've jumped off a bridge before I got better. > I have a question, after following this thread with interest... Why would the body preserve cholesterol in a gall stone? How can it access that store when it needs it? Jo (who worried when someone described the symptoms of gall stones... I currently have a pain in the middle of my chest just under the breast bone! But it feels muscular, and I must try not to be such a hypochondriac!! lol!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 <<< Why did he take Pepto Bismol? Pepto helps heal damage to the gut. It also kills " bad " bacteria (and maybe the good ones too), so then the probiotics you are eating can get a better foothold.>>> So if I appear to have gluten intolerance should I take Pepto Bismol? Marcella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 >>(who worried when someone described the symptoms of gall stones... I currently have a pain in the middle of my chest just under the breast bone! But it feels muscular, and I must try not to be such a hypochondriac!! lol!) << I hate to tell you this... but that is exactly how mine always felt: Like a muscle pain. It would be good to get it checked out. Hopefully you are fine. Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 In a message dated 7/14/03 4:56:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jopollack2001@... writes: > Why would the body preserve cholesterol in a gall stone? How can it > access that store when it needs it? I don't know, but if I'd have to wager a guess, it would be that a spherical shape is the best way to minimize its surface area, making it less vulnerable to being used, or to chemical reactions in general. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 > <<<Marcella > Ihave to pipe up here. This is something I feel very stronly about. > Quite frankly, how dare they!!!! If you are good enough to ask them > to respect your food choices, then they should try to cater for you. > You are family, after all, not an unwanted guest or a stranger. >>> I am not really family to them. I kinda have the inlaws from hell. They don't outwardly appear that way and they can be really nice to other people but my mil hated me the first time she met me and has worked really hard to make things miserable. She is even mean to my children. She totally denies it. But it is kind of a non-issue visiting them. I have said I would never step foot in their home again because of poor treatment to my son. And short of their funeral I don't plan on going back BUT they come down to ton at least once a year and I will go and stay with family there and visit them. I am just no longer putting myself in the position of being treated like my mil likes to treat me. But I really like Heidi's idea. I wouldn't mind showing up with a boiled tongue. Marcella If > you sat and watched them ate often enough, wouldn't they get the > hint? Alternatively, take your own stuff and make a point of eating > it at the same time as everyone else to show how seriously you take > your own health (if you take it seriously, then they should) > > And then you can get your own back by feeding them some raw meat and > other NT delicacies! > > > Jo > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Thanks for all the advice given. I just can't catch up with all the email. I really appreciate all the input. It is has given me alot to think about. Marcella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 I agree. I certainly can't diagnose a gall bladder attack, but I have been doubled over in pain for hour from a food allergy. That was when I had a very severe dairy allergy. It oly happened when I had dairy and I ate lots of other fatty foods. Irene At 01:19 AM 7/13/03, you wrote: > >I am betting you have that gallbladder removed > >before the end of the year. THIS IS NOT AN ALLERGY. > > > >Lynn S. > >Or it might be both. Many people with gluten intolerances >lose their gall bladder a LOT -- the gluten problems can damage >the gall bladder (and pancreas/liver/thyroid) very badly. > >If you don't believe me, do a search on: > " gall bladder " gluten. One typical story: > ><http://www.mandlmedia.com/aviva/fall.html>http://www.mandlmedia.com/aviva/fall\ ..html > > >We were very close and it was very stressful. The stress affected my >stomach and made an already bad situation worse. My grandmother was ok, I >was busy with college and was fine with the Zantac until shortly before my >20th birthday. I was awake all night with a typical " attack " that this >time, would not go away. In the morning I was in the emergency room and >after many tests, gall stones were found. I had my gall bladder removed a >week later and I thought for once I could move on with my life. I was fine >for a few months and then the same stomach disorders returned. I was >starting to believe it was all in my head. >--- > >She then goes on for more years with more problems, until she changes her >diet. It really is NOT an either/or >situation. > >-- Heidi > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 >So if I appear to have gluten intolerance should I take Pepto Bismol? > >Marcella If it helps! He got immediate relief, and he needed it. I took it when I was travelling, because there was no way I could get GF food all the time (it was MOSTLY GF, but there is the contamination problem, and I am sensitive to that. Also there was no kimchi !!!!!). PB eases the inflammation issues, which is really a lifesaver sometimes. It heals microscopic colitis, which a lot of people seem to have (esp. people who react to gluten). But it is only for short-term use: like, do it for a week or two to get stabilized. And start good probiotics (kimchi is my favorite) during that period or shortly after. Bismuth is the active ingredient, and it actively inhibits certain kinds of bacterial activity (mostly of the type you DO NOT need). Kefir is a wonderful probiotic too, BTW, but the casein in it adds another variable you probably don't need right now. Kefir has it's own good things that are different from kimchi. Kimchi has a lot of digestive enzymes (esp. if it is made with garlic and ginger and pepper!) which are very helpful. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Marcella, Know what you mean. Garden of Life products are expensive retail. Through this website, you can get them cheap: http://primaldefenseandbeyond.com > > > > > <<<Ok, *three* birds with one stone! ;-) I think the X-Factor butter oil > > from > > Wetzel Farms has helped me fight off my systemic infection better than > > anything else. I strongly suggest > > > > 1)cod liver oil > > 2)Wetzel Farms X-Factor Butter Oil > > 3)Primal Defense from Garden of Life > > > > as a basic foundation for *any* treatment plan. > > > > (Two more things *I* forgot to mention!) >>> > > > These are all very expensive except maybe the cod liver oil. I just saw the > primal defense at the store yesterday and it was, I believe, $50 for a bottle. > I did just find a bottle of the Wetzel butter oil in my freezer that I had > forgotten about though. It is a shame it requires so much money to eat healthy or > to get well. > > Marcella > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Hi Marcella, I'm sure as I scroll down my inbox I will see lots of responses from folks regarding your post, but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth, On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:02:12 EDT antioecumenist@... wrote: > I have felt horrible since I was about 14 and I am 26 now. I feel worse every > year. I have tried one thing or another with my diet over the years. I know I > am hypothyroid and have weak adrenals. I have alot of food allergies such as > gluten, citrus and dairy in different forms. I have systemic candida also. I > have been off all grains and sugars including fruit for the past few weeks with > the exceptions of brown rice twice and a handful of blackberries and > blueberries I picked. I have been on Nystatin for 2 weeks and have had garlic tablets > since and it is not treating the candida. It seems the only way I can feel > good is to not eat anything. I had some sardines earlier and felt fine after > eating them. Later this evening I had some salmon cakes with egg in them. I have > a headache and achey joints and pain in my side now. I have wondered if I was > allergic to eggs for a while. I haven't had any for well over a week till now. > Maybe it was the salmon? I have felt MUCH better since eating pretty much > only vegetable juices, broths, kefir or yoghurt and only a little bit of solid > foods. But I have no appetite. I have never felt this way before. I really only > remember to eat when I find myself fealing dizzy or lightheaded. It concerns > me having no appetite for food. I have some postpartum depression but I have > dealt with depression before and it never caused a lack of appetite. My first suggestion would be something you have already discovered on your own: fast. IMO, the simplest, easiest, safest and fastest way to deal with most situations like this is to go on a juice fast. You will be amazed at what such will do for you. Literally amazed. After twelve years of feeling horrible this could be the first time you have had some serious relief in a long long time. Hippocrates referred to fasting as " the doctor within. " One of the first things I did when I got on this healing treadmill was to juice fast for 21 days. My mom thought I was crazy since I was in my early twenties at the time, but there was no denying my improvement in health. Most Americans are not very well versed on this protocol and often afraid of it. You might search out a health practitioner nearby who is familiar with fasting and can help guide you through it, but don't let a lack of one stop you if your mind, heart and gut tell you this is the way to go. Fasting has a long and honorable tradition and a good body of supporting literature as well, although it is largely ignored on this side of the pond. And it sounds to me like you are already mostly fasting anyway. Judicious fasting is certainly possible on your own provided you know what you are doing and what to expect. All the symptoms and problems you describe above should find immediate relief while juice fasting. And while you can find lots of books with lots of recipes about what juices to use, let me suggest that for the most part it is not the juices themselves which do the healing, but the body's own healing mechanisms that are able to work more efficiently during this process (plus the things you are not taking in). There are some guidelines about juicing itself (not fasting per se) that you can find at this site: http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/juicing-basic-1.html. The info should be quite helpful. But a juice fast that includes a variety of mostly veggie juices, potassium broths, some herbal support, and maybe even some green drinks can be quite efficacious, IMO, in situations such as yours. Here is a web link to fasting: http://www.fasting.com/index.html Ignore whatever it is he is trying to sell. You don't really need it, but you might find some of the info helpful. If you are interested I can email you an article on fasting which would be WAY to long to post here but is pretty good on the subject. Also, you could easily graduate from a juice fast to a milk/kefir protocol, as a way to extend the " fast " provided you have TOP QUALITY dairy available. And if the thought of juice fasting intimidates you, this may even be a good place to start instead. You can find some info at the Weston Price Real Milk website: http://www.realmilk.com/milkcure.html > > I also have this pain in my right side that comes and go. It started when I > was pregnant with my first child. I had this severe pain in my side but my > midwife brushed it off and told me it was probably my gallbladder but had no > suggestions. I found out a few weeks later after giving birth that I had recently > had an undiagnosed kidney infection. This pain has come and gone over the years > but gotten worse the past year. I just had another baby 5 weeks ago and > whenever I brought it up again to my midwife (different from the first) during my > pregnancy it was brushed off(sore from carrying around small children etc..). I > don't have insurance so need to take care of something like this myself. It > has bothered me alot the last few days. I know it hurts worse if I eat fried > foods or drink soft drinks. I of course have not had these lately but it is > something that can start hurting minutes from starting to eat. It is on my right > side, kinda of in the back under the back of my rib cage approximately. A > friend who is missing a kidney and the other one is weak has suggested it is my > kidney. What else is down there that could hurt like that? I know y'all aren't > Dr's. I am not looking for one. I just need ideas of what I can do myself. I > have mentioned it to the thyroid Dr I see every few months and he thought maybe > my kidney had " fallen " some. He did something with some vibrating/massage like > thing and it hasn't helped. Don't ask me what it was I have never heard of it > before. Any suggestions? I am tired of feeling tired. I need to eat but most > of what I do makes me sick and tired. You may not think so now but being sick and tired of being sick and tired can be a good place to be, if it spurs you on to make the necessary changes in your food choices and lifestyles. Unless you want to be dealing with some extremely excruciating pain, I think you need to pay very close attention to the pain you are having. In my opinion, while you are fasting you should do both a liver flush and a kidney/gall bladder flush, as it certainly sounds like you may have stones. Believe me you don't want to pass those babies in the normal manner. You will discover a new vocabulary that you may not have known existed if you do. A properly done flush is a non-invasive safe way to help heal your organs and remove any stones. And during a fast of any sort it is important that you get all your organs of elimination working properly. I have an simple dietary flush that I can send your way if you are so inclined. Much of what I have seen on the web is WAY to harsh and not necessary. It has been my experience that fasting, flushing and the milk cure are simple but effective tools. Perhaps they can help you. " Humans live on one-quarter of what they eat; on the other three-quarters lives their doctor. " --Egyptian pyramid inscription, 3800 B.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Oh one other thing I neglected to ask. Are you breastfeeding your baby? If you are then that would change what I was suggesting in the previous response. On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:02:12 EDT antioecumenist@... wrote: > I have felt horrible since I was about 14 and I am 26 now. I feel worse every > year. I have tried one thing or another with my diet over the years. I know I > am hypothyroid and have weak adrenals. I have alot of food allergies such as > gluten, citrus and dairy in different forms. I have systemic candida also. I > have been off all grains and sugars including fruit for the past few weeks with > the exceptions of brown rice twice and a handful of blackberries and > blueberries I picked. I have been on Nystatin for 2 weeks and have had garlic tablets > since and it is not treating the candida. It seems the only way I can feel > good is to not eat anything. I had some sardines earlier and felt fine after > eating them. Later this evening I had some salmon cakes with egg in them. I have > a headache and achey joints and pain in my side now. I have wondered if I was > allergic to eggs for a while. I haven't had any for well over a week till now. > Maybe it was the salmon? I have felt MUCH better since eating pretty much > only vegetable juices, broths, kefir or yoghurt and only a little bit of solid > foods. But I have no appetite. I have never felt this way before. I really only > remember to eat when I find myself fealing dizzy or lightheaded. It concerns > me having no appetite for food. I have some postpartum depression but I have > dealt with depression before and it never caused a lack of appetite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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