question

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm rather new here, but *I* think was over the top with a

lot of her statements. Spreading fear is not the way to handle a potential

health crisis.

Like it or not, this is Sheri' list. She has the right to moderate someone

if she so chooses. If you don't like it, you can leave the list~ although

IMO, that would be a shame because there is an incredible wealth of

information here.

My .02

Jan

Doula & SAHM of 8

[Guest guest]

I personally think everyone is getting carried away. It is so easy for an

email to get taken in the wrong way.

Let's not fan the fire more by carrying on about this and get back to what this

list is about. Otherwise people who really want & need help and support will

just be turned away. Seen it happen on many a list.

My 2 cents worth.

Barbara

[Guest guest]

Thank God for this list is all I can say. These ladies sound like me BEFORE

vaccine damage opened my eyes. Be patient they are new and don't take what

they say to heart okay Sheri?

Big hugs for all hurt by ignorance, including me...in trouble at work for

talking about vaccines...go figure...

" Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should

be

given to their children "

<A HREF= " http://www.theforgotten.com/vaccines/ " > Vaccine Information</A>

[Guest guest]

I know all too well about spies on the list as I still have my ckn pox pics of

my kids on the ratbags site because of one.

Diane and Jim Emerick

emerick@...

Blake, 5 years old (12-25-97)

Amber, 2 years old (2-17-01)

Please visit our homepage at:

http://theemericks.homestead.com/family.html

" Uneducated people believe what they are told...

Educated people question what they are told "

[Guest guest]

Yes , it has occurred to me, and is happening. No one should

ever have to go through a sick child because of a vaccine reaction.

Thank God for lists like this one! Wish I had it 16 years ago? Where

were the " mainstream " Drs when it came to helping my son? I spend

many hours out of the day trying to explain this to " mainstream "

parents who need sceintific proof.

> has it ever occurred to you that some activists are

> literally living on the bread line because we believe

> so much in the truth and we find it more important to

> help parents getting their children back than to make

> a comfortable living?

> yes, do feel free to call us nuts. but at least we

> have a clear conscience.

> :-)

> claudia

[Guest guest]

I said something to the wrong person's daughter in law. this family is high

in the church and is in the medical profession. I work at the church one day

a week, cooking. So I was reprimanded and made to sign a paper that I would

not initiate any conversation about vaccines but that if someone asked me I

could talk about it on my own time. I cannot go up to a new Mom and ask her

to research vaccines or hand her my card....how ungodly is that! Yikes is

right! Wanted to quit right on the spot but at the same time they doubled my

salary! Go figure!

All the best,

" Parents should decide through informed choice, which vaccines if any should

be

given to their children "

<A HREF= " http://www.theforgotten.com/vaccines/ " > Vaccine Information</A>

[Guest guest]

At 06:06 PM 04/01/2003 EST, you wrote:

>Thank God for this list is all I can say. These ladies sound like me BEFORE

>vaccine damage opened my eyes. Be patient they are new and don't take what

>they say to heart okay Sheri?

Thanks and thank you all.

>Big hugs for all hurt by ignorance, including me...in trouble at work for

>talking about vaccines...go figure...

Oh no, what happened? Yikes...........

Sheri

>

>

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

wear a button!

Kathy

I said something to the wrong person's daughter in law. this family is high

in the church and is in the medical profession. I work at the church one day

a week, cooking. So I was reprimanded and made to sign a paper that I would

not initiate any conversation about vaccines but that if someone asked me I

could talk about it on my own time. I cannot go up to a new Mom and ask her

to research vaccines or hand her my card....how ungodly is that! Yikes is

right! Wanted to quit right on the spot but at the same time they doubled my

salary! Go figure!

All the best,

[Guest guest]

What? You can not talk about this at church? Why? And is your church aware of

the fact that some vaccines are grown up on a cell line from aborted babies? I

have brought up vaccine issues to complete strangers at the store. I see a mom

with a little one and feel compeled to say something. I guess some have thought

I was crazy, but I have also had others thank me and said they would look into

some of the vaccine issues. Are we that far gone that you can not talk about

this issue. I think most people are too scared and/or brainwashed and too

trusting of the medical profession. I wish someone had hit me on the head years

ago and pointed me into the right direction. Even before researching and

learning the truth about vaccines, my husband and I knew instinctively that

there was a connection with what happened to our son and haven't vaccinated

since 98. And as we learned more and more, are convictions became stronger.

And to see the development of an unvaxed child (our youngest is unvaxed) will

really open up ones eyes.

Wat happened to freedom of speech? I would want to know if members can talk

about the so-called benefits of vaccine? This is just what the power-elite

wants.

They do not want us to discuss real issues and to think for ourselves. Uh-Oh,

we might discover the truth! I thought the church was about the truth?

Lynda Nixon

Re: Re: Question

wear a button!

Kathy

I said something to the wrong person's daughter in law. this family is high

in the church and is in the medical profession. I work at the church one day

a week, cooking. So I was reprimanded and made to sign a paper that I would

not initiate any conversation about vaccines but that if someone asked me I

could talk about it on my own time. I cannot go up to a new Mom and ask her

to research vaccines or hand her my card....how ungodly is that! Yikes is

right! Wanted to quit right on the spot but at the same time they doubled my

salary! Go figure!

All the best,

[Guest guest]

it was a complete stranger that started me researching

thanks to her, neither of my girls are vaxed

Kathy

----- Original Message -----

From: J & L Nixon

I have brought up vaccine issues to complete strangers at the store. I see a

mom with a little one and feel compeled to say something. I guess some have

thought I was crazy, but I have also had others thank me and said they would

look into some of the vaccine issues.

Lynda Nixon

[Guest guest]

I believe has a tape for people who are in wheelchairs OR who cant stand long. REACH maybe is the name. OR even the leslie sansone tapes but sitting down. You can do them in a chair in front of the tv and do the motions. Every movement helps.

NH

Mommy to Abby Liz 10-25-94

Mommy to Anne 7-1-99

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <sunshine_5280@...>

> Hi.. I would like to know if anyone has any ideas for exercises for

> someone who can not stand .. I have ms and it is very hard for me to do

> the kind of exercises that I see others doing.. I really need some

> ideas.. I can lift my legs but just can not stand very long and loose my

> balance easily.. Any ideas would be appreciated.. Thanks..

Hi ,

Check out www.chairdancing.com. I got one for my sister and she really

likes it. Check amazon for prices though.

Ann

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " cherry sundae " <cherrybabync@...>

>

> It seems like I once looked at a RIchard book at the library on

exercises for wheel chair bound people. I work with alot of elderly

wheelchair patients. One thing the PT does is get them a small set of hand

weights and have them lift them, and do small waist twists. THeres also a

small pedal bike, thats only the pedals . Alot of our patients who have

little leg mobility use them. you just place the pedals on the floor, slide

your feet in the straps and pedal. theres no balancing or sitting on a bike.

I just saw these in the Foot Smart catalog. Go to www.footsmart.com. Might

be cheaper than a medical supply store. Dunno.

Ann

[Guest guest]

Jase4567@... wrote:

I believe

has a tape for people who are in wheelchairs OR who cant stand

long. REACH maybe is the name. OR even the leslie sansone tapes

but sitting down. You can do them in a chair in front of the tv and

do the motions. Every movement helps.

has an older one called "Reach for Fitness" and there is

also a newer one called "Sit Tight" that also is done sitting.

Carol

[Guest guest]

> Hi.. I would like to know if anyone has any ideas for exercises for

> someone who can not stand .. I have ms and it is very hard for me

to do

> the kind of exercises that I see others doing.. I really need some

> ideas.. I can lift my legs but just can not stand very long and

loose my

> balance easily.. Any ideas would be appreciated.. Thanks..

Hi ,

maybe exercise bands or free weights for your upper body would work

[Guest guest]

At 12:09 AM 03/04/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>And is your church aware of the fact that some vaccines are grown up on a

>cell line from aborted babies?

>Lynda Nixon

I'm relatively new to this list. Wading through lots of emails that I

didn't get to read in the heat of the thread.

I would be grateful for being pointed toward links, books, resources that

provide information on this use of cells from aborted babies.

Sobering.

Thank you.

Ninette

[Guest guest]

What is the point of this post exactly? If you are unhappy, leave,

quietly.

None of us have time for this..

Lora

Re: Question

The point of this list was discussing and sharing information about

vaccines, not brow beating and harassing everyone who joins into

following your particular ideal. Yes sheri, I've been on this list since

shortly after nicole started it and there were 60 members.

The martyr routine doesn't cut it with me any more, you've used it too

many times. I tired of it when you admonished the list for not standing

out in the rain to protest " mad-cow " beside you. You used to have a lot

more help researching and presenting information but you've driven away

most of the credible, knowledgeable members. I've done my share, I used

to help gather information, used to frequent vaccine boards at parenting

web sites (yeah, remember when we did that sheri, when you were just a

human like the rest of us?). Quite frankly, you've become flaky and it's

a turn off. It makes me question information you present and hesitant to

refer anyone to this list. And your homeopathy classes are an obvious

conflict of interest.

Shelby

Sheri Nakken wrote:

>What??????????/

> hasn't been here for about 4 years

>And just what is the point of the list, Shelby?

>

>You are all welcome to start your own lists

>I think your statements are totally unfair

>I email privately everyone who joins this list. I help people

constantly

>with vaccine dangers info. I help them find treatment. People phone

me at

>all hours of the day and night. I research articles, I maintain a

webpage

>for informatoin

>

>And I teach homeopathy so you all don't have to be dependent on

allopathic

>treatment and can take charge of your own health - 4 month class for a

>measly $50. I teach it so you won't be taken in by most homeopaths out

>there that aren't worth their weight in salt as that is the feedback I

get

>all the time.

>

>I have spies get on this list and do all I can to protect all of

>you................

>

>So until you've walked a mile in my shoes, you might want to think

about it

>Thanks so much. I've pretty much had it and this is nearly the straw

that

>breaks the camels' back

>Sheri

>moderator

>

>At 11:01 AM 04/01/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>

>

>>Yes, I agree, it's very disturbing and sad. I've been on this list

since

>>'98 or '99 and it's gone down hill considerably, the point of the list

>>was forgotten at some point shortly after nicole passed the baton.

Seems

>>it's become a heavy handed forum of single mindedness with the sole

>>purpose of selling homeopathy classes.

>>Shelby

>>

>>imusmcwife wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>>Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then is

>>> on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she VOICES it

>>>more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

>>>

>>>I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

>>>simply HAD to ask the question.

>>>

>>>This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

>>>

>>>MY humble opinion.

>>>

>>>Stacey

>>>Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the time.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

Measles is a normal childhood disease, like chickenpox. Nearly 100 percent

of the population had measles, whooping cough, and chickenpox during

childhood. Their incidence did not decline with modern public health

measures, but their fatality rate did. Fatalities from all childhood

diseases were decreasing long before the era of vaccines. Polio is a

different matter. The incidence of polio would come in waves of about every

30 years. So during the 1950s a virulent polio strain caused significant

morbidity. This was well into the age of modern sanitation. Clearly the

improvement in nutrition, living conditions, and sanitation/water treatment

had a big impact on deaths from these diseases (and the near elimination of

water borne diseases like typhoid and cholera). Because the diseases still

exist and because the medical profession is helpless in the face of most of

these infectious diseases, vaccination has become the first line of defense,

regardless of the consequences. Homeopathy has a tremendous track record in

the treatment of typhoid, yellow fever, cholera, measles, etc. There is a

much higher level of confidence among homeopaths about the ability to treat

childhood infections and prevent complications. Therefore, homeopaths are

much less inclined to recommend vaccines and risk their adverse effects. for

allopaths the choice is clear - use vaccines to prevent disease or do

nothing at all in the face of these infections and their complications. For

them the second choice is not an option.

Randall Neustaedter OMD, LAc

Classical Medicine Center

1779 Woodside Rd., Suite 201C

Redwood City, CA 94061

Author of The Vaccine Guide, North Atlantic Books, 2002

650 299-9170

Subscribe to my free email newsletter

at www.cure-guide.com

Question

> A question came to me today. I am an avid genealogist and know that in

the not too distant past our ancestors often died from diseases such as

cholera and typhoid. My own great aunt had typhoid in the late 1930's (and

lived). My great grandfather died from it around the turn of the century.

>

> Anyway, I know both can be from contaminated water. I also know there is

a vaccine for both.

>

> I'm sure the reason these vaccines are not on our list of " required "

vaccines in this country because these diseases are not prevalent here any

longer. Better sanitation, nutrition, improved water supplies etc., I

imagine is what led to it's eradication.

>

> So why does it seem so hard for people to believe that these very same

improvements in our society are what led to the decline of polio, measles,

smallpox, etc. and not from the vaccines themselves? Typhoid and cholera

declined here without mass vaccination... It just seems so simple.

>

>

> Kay (who must have too much time on her hands to come up with these

questions!) : )

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/03 9:33:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

zaynetp@... writes:

>

> So why does it seem so hard for people to believe that these very same

> improvements in our society are what led to the decline of polio, measles,

> smallpox, etc. and not from the vaccines themselves? Typhoid and cholera

declined

> here without mass vaccination... It just seems so simple.

>

According to Dr. Robt Mendelson..the " Medical Heretic, " the Amer. public has

fallen for the religion of " modern medicine. "

--Doc, the " Medical gadfly. "

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the explanation. I think your point about homeopathy is very

important.

Kay

Dr. Neustaedter Responds

Let's consider these diseases. Measles is a normal childhood disease, like

chickenpox. Nearly 100 percent of the population contracted measles, whooping

cough, and chickenpox during childhood prior to widespread vaccination. The

incidence of these diseases did not decline with modern public health measures,

but their fatality rate did. Fatalities from all childhood diseases were

decreasing long before the era of vaccines. Polio is a different matter. The

incidence of polio would come in waves about every 30 years. During the 1950s a

virulent polio strain caused significant morbidity. This was well into the age

of modern sanitation. Clearly the improvement in nutrition, living conditions,

and sanitation/water treatment had a big impact on deaths from these infectious

diseases (and the near elimination of water-borne diseases like typhoid and

cholera). Because the diseases still exist and because the medical profession is

helpless in the face of most of these infectious diseases, vaccination has

become the first line of defense, regardless of the consequences.

Homeopathy has a tremendous track record in the treatment of typhoid, yellow

fever, cholera, measles, etc. There is a much higher level of confidence among

homeopaths about the ability to treat childhood infections and prevent

complications. Therefore, homeopaths are much less inclined to recommend

vaccines and risk their adverse effects. For allopaths the choice is clear - use

vaccines to prevent disease or do nothing at all for most of these infections

and their complications. For the conventional physician doing nothing is not a

viable option.

Smallpox has a somewhat different history. The vaccine was introduced prior to

the development of modern sanitation, and over a hundred years before the era of

refrigeration and modern nutritional practices. Early vaccines had a poor record

of preventing epidemics. Deadly and devastating smallpox epidemics repeatedly

occurred in populations with nearly universal vaccination and revaccination

coverage. Vaccines were unreliable. Manufacturers had no way to verify the

potency of a vaccine preparation or to keep vaccine supplies from deteriorating.

Many authorities claim that smallpox and its high mortality rate exist only in

populations with poor sanitation, compromised living conditions, and inadequate

nutrition. These claims are difficult to evaluate, except to note the parallel

decline in smallpox mortality along with the other infectious diseases as living

conditions improved in the twentieth century. Modern tests of smallpox vaccine

effectiveness are contradictory. In areas of the world with squalid living

conditions, the vaccine is effective in preventing household transmission of

smallpox. In more developed areas of the world, the effectiveness of the

smallpox vaccine has been questioned. In a survey of all smallpox cases in North

America and Europe during the period 1950-1971, the number of smallpox victims

who had never received vaccine was nearly equivalent to the number of cases with

a history of vaccination in the previous 10 years.

Randall Neustaedter OMD, LAc

[Guest guest]

At 07:28 AM 01/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:

>I have a 5 year old step daughter, I/we see maybe about 3 times every other

>week. I've noticed for about 3 years she has almost a chronic flemmy cough,

>and sounds like she's a 2 pack a day smoker with the hacking and wheezing.

>Lately I've noticed a rash on her inner thighs (which may come from her

>still wetting the bed, not sure), but, there's also small bumps that goes on

>her stomach up to her chest. I'm sure she's been vaccinated, she's in

>school, and I haven't heard talk about waivers, so, I " m assuming the mother

>has had her vaccinated. Her mother just married a gentleman that's a health

>nut... we've had small conversations about vaccines. I don't think he's

> " into " them, but, probably allows the mother to do whatever... I'm just the

> " step " , so, I have no say.

>I'm just curious to know if anyone else has the same problems (health) with

>their child, as mentioned above, what it may be the start of, and how to

>stop it. It doesn't seem to slow her down any in terms of energy, but the

>coughing, flemmy/gurgle sound, and wheezing has me a bit concerned.

>Randi

>

Well, if they could get her to a homeopath to sort it all out

Where do they live?

Maybe her mother's new husband can help influence this.

Sheri

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Randi,

You are really between a rock and a hard place, aren't you? If it were my

child, I would take them to a homoeopath for a remedy but the ex probably

won't listen to that. Therefore, you need to get them to read something and

that is always hard because you are up against so much embedded belief.

Therefore, try to find something short to show them - even if you send it

anonymously. If you want to have a look, the AVN has produced a flyer for

just this sort of purpose. You can find it by going to our website -

http://www.avn.org.au and clicking on the link that says donate. It is

always difficult to get through to people who are operating from a position

of fear - but once people are better informed, the fear seems to dissolve

away.

Good luck,

Meryl

Question

I have a 5 year old step daughter, I/we see maybe about 3 times every other

week. I've noticed for about 3 years she has almost a chronic flemmy cough,

and sounds like she's a 2 pack a day smoker with the hacking and wheezing.

Lately I've noticed a rash on her inner thighs (which may come from her

still wetting the bed, not sure), but, there's also small bumps that goes on

her stomach up to her chest. I'm sure she's been vaccinated, she's in

school, and I haven't heard talk about waivers, so, I " m assuming the mother

has had her vaccinated. Her mother just married a gentleman that's a health

nut... we've had small conversations about vaccines. I don't think he's

" into " them, but, probably allows the mother to do whatever... I'm just the

" step " , so, I have no say.

I'm just curious to know if anyone else has the same problems (health) with

their child, as mentioned above, what it may be the start of, and how to

stop it. It doesn't seem to slow her down any in terms of energy, but the

coughing, flemmy/gurgle sound, and wheezing has me a bit concerned.

Randi

_____

[Guest guest]

hi erin,

NC has a religious exemption. contact PAVE (parents

advocating vaccine education) for detailed info

werpave at

claudia

--- ERIN CORN <NCorn@...> wrote: > I live in

NC and I was told that all children that

> are in daycare have to be up to date on their shots.

> Which is not a problem for us since I am a SAHM.

> Here comes the but. But I was also told that all

> school age children have to have all their

> vaccinations before entering school. Is this true?

>

> May God bless you and yours.

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

=====

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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem & item=2986556451

http://www.freeyurko.bizland.com/

http://www.he-ed.org.uk

" The mind is like a parachute. In order to function, it first has to open. "

-- Dewar

___________________________________________________________

BT Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save £80

http://bt..co.uk

[Guest guest]

,

This is a total lie that is widely used in each state. Each and every state has

some sort of exemption from vaccines in order for children to start school.

Some states are easier to get these exemptions in than others.

North Carolina is one that has a religious exemption. You need to find out

exactly how it's worded. In Kentucky we also have a religious exemption. I

simply went to the heath department and picked up 2 specific forms for this and

filled them out for my 2 children. We don't have to belong to any certain

religion or anything.

I had a link that provided the laws for each state, but it no longer works.

Perhaps someone else out there has it. Or you can put " North Carolina vaccine

exemptions " in your search engine.

I get so angry when I see the lies everywhere around the beginning of school

saying what is " required " for a child to attend. I wrote to our local paper's

editor last year because they stated that children must be up to date on their

vaccines in order to attend school. I said in my letter that they weren't

giving people the truth and that exemptions are allowed in our state. Of course

that was one letter they didn't print!

You're asking some great questions. Don't feel hesitent to continue to do so.

That's what this list is for... supporting eachother and getting our questions

answered. We all had to start somewhere, and I think we're all more than happy

to help get the " newer " people started on their quest to learn more about the

dangers of vaccines.

Kay

****************

I was also told that all school age children have to have all their

vaccinations before entering school. Is this true?

[Guest guest]

<<YOu are not alone . Even those of us who are nurses are bowled

over by them, even with as much as I know. I don't even try anymore.

They will only wake up when one of their own is damaged and not even

then sometimes due to the denial>>

Thanks, Sheri. Brings up an interesting story...a girl in one of my

classes is an ABA therapist with special school district here...she was

encouraging me to apply for a position, because the " rich " areas here in

town are desperate for therapists, " All but one of my students are

children of doctors. "

I found that so interesting...does autism follow any socioeconomic or

occupational patterns, does anyone know? It would make sense, if

vaccines are a risk factor, that doctors would have more autistic

children...just curious.

M