question

[Guest guest]

, your condition sounds similar to me. My worse symptom is dizziness

and tiredness, mixed with sore throats and headaches.

Get a liver function test done (www.gsdl.com) - mine is so useless I am

embarressed that it is ny body

It may be revealing for you

Ho

Email: justinho@...

Question

> Hi all,

>

> A friend recommended I join this group. I've read many of the posts

> here so am becoming familiar with the things people on the list are

> doing. The decent doctors I've seen tend to homogenize us as a group

> and I know we are all different.

>

> My overriding symptom is a feeling of toxicity and having a

> bad " buzz " . It starts when I wake up in the morning and basically

> lasts all day. When I speak to others with the illness they tend to

> call it " brain fog " but I think this is different. It prevents me

> from driving beyond local distances and working for that matter. I

> don't really have alot of other symptoms and have had a pretty good

> workup over the last couple years for pathogens including Mycoplasma

> and they are all basically negative.

>

> It isn't as bad when I'm outdoors because it isn't as noticeable. I

> actually feel better standing and moving around then when lying

> down. I can golf for example, and of course feel crappy afterward,

> but can't sit in front of a computer for more than a few minutes.

>

> Does anyone else have this toxicity thing as their biggest symptom

> and what approach makes sense? Or is this just my particular

> manifestation of the illness? I've tried antioxidants but not sure

> they have benefited me much, if at all. My MD is okay, but not too

> knowledgeable and there aren't too many other options here. He's

> willing to try things though. I'm sure he'll be willing to have the

> ISAC panel run. Other than that, does anyone have any input in terms

> of tests and/or supplements/nutrients? Thanks.

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I think I might understand what you mean by " buzz " .

I also can't drive beyond the very familiar. What helped

me is Klonopin, it was prescribed by Dr Cheney and is neuroprotective.

I've copied and pasted a patient of Cheney's who explains what he

believes is happening.

Here it is:

Over time there has been a lot of discussion of Klonopin on the list. It is

a favorite of many CFIDS specialists besides Cheney. (In the October 1999

issue of The Fibromyalgia Network, six out of nine CFS and/or FM

specialists included Klonopin on their list of most beneficial therapies.

The three who didn't mention it (Bennet, Clauw, Pellegrino) are to my

knowledge primarily, if not exclusively, FM specialists.

(This info is taken from several visits with Cheney and from a classic

article in the Spring 1995 CFIDS Chronicle, " CFIDS Treatment: The Cheney

Clinic's Strategic Approach " .)

Cheney begins by drawing a chart. It's too complex to reduce to words, but

here's a simplified version:

Imagine a horizontal line with seizure on the far left, coma on the far

right, and a point in the middle labeled " normal awake " . About an inch to

the right of the first point is another point labeled " normal asleep " .

Everything from the middle point to seizure is highlighted red and labeled

" Neurotoxic State " . Everything from the middle point to coma (including the

" normal asleep " point) is highlighted blue and is labeled " Healing State " .

(Sigh. A picture really is worth a thousand words.)

Now, for CFIDS, a point about two inches to the left of middle (in the

neurotoxic territory) is labeled " Injury " . In CFIDS there is an injury to

the brain that shifts us toward seizure. It's why many experience " sensory

overload " . It's as if our radar is set wrong - too sensitive. The neurons

are firing when they aren't supposed to. (Coma - no firing; Seizure -

continuous firing.) Stimulus that should be too weak to cause a neuron to

fire now triggers it. And we become sensitive to light, sound, motion -

even pain. Everything is amplified.

What determines how much stimulus it takes to make a neuron fire? The

" threshold potential " . If the threshold potential is too high, neurons

don't fire when they should - you feel like a drugged zombie. If the

threshold potential is too low, neurons fire when they shouldn't - you feel

like you're in sensory overload.

What sets the threshold potential? Two receptors in the brain: GABA and

NMDA. They should be balanced (during the day) to keep you in the middle of

the line between coma and seizure. NMDA stimulates, GABA inhibits. If GABA

increases, you move toward coma. If NMDA increases, you move toward

seizure. (By the way, I don't think taking the supplement GABA will affect

this - I don't believe it can cross the blood-brain barrier)

But in CFIDS, NMDA is activated over GABA, lowering the threshold and

causing neurons to fire inappropriately. Cheney calls this " excitatory

neurotoxicity " . And it is dangerous. Neurons that continue to fire

excessively are eventually killed by the body. We're talking brain-cell

loss!!

How do you protect your brain? How do you prevent the destruction of those

poor neurons that are firing off excessively? How do you decrease NMDA so

that you're not shifted toward seizure and in that " neurotoxic territory?

Klonopin. Klonopin lowers NMDA activity, reducing the inappropriate

excessive firing. It is " neuro protective " - it protects the brain by

stopping the excessive firing that eventually gets our brain cells

(neurons) killed. Cheney learned from patients that the generic,

Clonazepam, was not as effective as Klonopin. I found that to be true

myself. I do better on Klonopin than on Clonazepam.

Neurontin also protects the brain, but it comes at it from the other

direction - it raises GABA. Two patients from our support group who saw

Cheney recently each came back with prescriptions for both Klonopin and

Neurontin. Hit it from both directions: Klonopin decreasing NMDA and

Neurontin increasing GABA to really protect the brain and bring you back

into balance on that seizure - coma continuum.

What else is neuro protective? At my visit in October, Cheney mentioned

magnesium and Doxepin. Cheney really likes magnesium because it protects

the brain. It's a very, very important supplement. And Cheney told me early

on that Doxepin acts synergistically with Klonopin, enhancing its

effect.But, as most know, the Doxepin is often tolerated only in very low

doses. Anywhere from 2 drops to 1/2 cc of Doxepin Elixir (10mg/mL). He also

said that at these low doses Doxepin is a very powerful anti-histamine. It

may be the most powerful anti-histamine there is. It gets into the central

nervous system, and Cheney thinks it may adjust the histamine receptors,

thereby down regulating the central nervous system. Very beneficial.

However, Doxepin can cause morning fog and drowsiness if the dose it too

high (usually 5 to 10 mg or higher.)

One indication of the shift toward seizure in the brains of CFIDS patients

is the effect of a low dose of Klonopin. When healthy people are given a

low dose of Klonopin, it makes them drowsy - it's shifted them slightly

toward coma. But if you give a low dose of Klonopin to CFIDS patients, it

makes them more alert. It's moved them away from the neurotoxic territory

of seizure closer to the balance point in the middle.

Cheney emphasized that Klonopin, Doxepin and magnesium are very, very good

at protecting the brain from cell death due to excess firing. But they

can't stop the underlying mechanisms that are injuring your brain in the

first place. (Those injury mechanisms are another story, another post.)

Klonopin can't stop the underlying injury mechanisms, but it can keep your

neurons from being destroyed by those injury mechanisms. Then when you come

out on the other side of all this, you'll have more of your brain left!

More to come on Klonopin. And if you're panicking about having lost brain

cells, Cheney latest study involves resuscitation / repair of injured /

damaged brain and organ systems. (Again, another story, another post.)

Take care. Carol

[Guest guest]

> Hi all,

>

> A friend recommended I join this group. I've read many of the posts

> here so am becoming familiar with the things people on the list are

> doing. The decent doctors I've seen tend to homogenize us as a

group

> and I know we are all different.

>

> My overriding symptom is a feeling of toxicity and having a

> bad " buzz " . It starts when I wake up in the morning and basically

> lasts all day. When I speak to others with the illness they tend to

> call it " brain fog " but I think this is different. It prevents me

> from driving beyond local distances and working for that matter. I

> don't really have alot of other symptoms and have had a pretty good

> workup over the last couple years for pathogens including Mycoplasma

> and they are all basically negative.

>

> It isn't as bad when I'm outdoors because it isn't as noticeable. I

> actually feel better standing and moving around then when lying

> down. I can golf for example, and of course feel crappy afterward,

> but can't sit in front of a computer for more than a few minutes.

>

> Does anyone else have this toxicity thing as their biggest symptom

> and what approach makes sense? Or is this just my particular

> manifestation of the illness? I've tried antioxidants but not sure

> they have benefited me much, if at all. My MD is okay, but not too

> knowledgeable and there aren't too many other options here. He's

> willing to try things though. I'm sure he'll be willing to have the

> ISAC panel run. Other than that, does anyone have any input in

terms

> of tests and/or supplements/nutrients? Thanks.

>

>

,

I suggest that you get the Comprehensive Detoxification Profile test

from Great Smokies (www.gsdl.com) and the " Metals-blood " test from

Great Plains (www.greatplainslaboratory.com). This combination should

give you a good picture of what's going on with your detox system.

Rich

[Guest guest]

HI ,

Are you sensitive to other EMF's that you are aware of? We

correspond with someone that has severe intolerance to EMF's. You

may want to do searches or ask someone to do them for you with regard

to this. MCS and Environmental illness come to mind as well. Some

have reported the usefulness of NAET, a type of allergy/intolerance

desensitization technique based on body energy fields/acupuncture.

We wish you the best! Hang around on this board, there's lots of

great folks and things to learn/ponder.

Mark and

> Hi all,

>

> A friend recommended I join this group. I've read many of the

posts

> here so am becoming familiar with the things people on the list are

> doing. The decent doctors I've seen tend to homogenize us as a

group

> and I know we are all different.

>

> My overriding symptom is a feeling of toxicity and having a

> bad " buzz " . It starts when I wake up in the morning and basically

> lasts all day. When I speak to others with the illness they tend

to

> call it " brain fog " but I think this is different. It prevents me

> from driving beyond local distances and working for that matter. I

> don't really have alot of other symptoms and have had a pretty good

> workup over the last couple years for pathogens including

Mycoplasma

> and they are all basically negative.

>

> It isn't as bad when I'm outdoors because it isn't as noticeable.

I

> actually feel better standing and moving around then when lying

> down. I can golf for example, and of course feel crappy afterward,

> but can't sit in front of a computer for more than a few minutes.

>

> Does anyone else have this toxicity thing as their biggest symptom

> and what approach makes sense? Or is this just my particular

> manifestation of the illness? I've tried antioxidants but not sure

> they have benefited me much, if at all. My MD is okay, but not too

> knowledgeable and there aren't too many other options here. He's

> willing to try things though. I'm sure he'll be willing to have

the

> ISAC panel run. Other than that, does anyone have any input in

terms

> of tests and/or supplements/nutrients? Thanks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I had a cortisone shot a few years ago and

it lasted all of a couple of days. Besides that, it

hurt like crazy! I have had Synvisc injections

finished this week, but it will take a little while to see

if they will work. Have you tried any medications?

Vioxx, Celebrex? I am on lodine and it has helped

tremendously. I also take glucosamine/chondroiton. Give it a

try. Good luck!

[Guest guest]

Hi<br><br>From what I've heard you should try to

avoid cortizone injections. The occasional one isn't

too bad but more than a couple a year is bad for the

joint cartilage (I think). I'm sure the one injection

you've had will be just fine but I think you should try

to avoid them in the future. I believe they (can) be

effective at reducingthe pain, but the effect is temporary.

It's not a cure.<br><br>I think you should see another

doc for a second opinion or a PT who will give you

some excercises to do. I know you already have

excercises, but get these checked by a second PT!!! I'm a bit

suspicious of docs who immediately inject cortizone for

" mild " CP!!!!<br><br>Good luck!<br>Joe

[Guest guest]

Use caffeinated coffee.

[Guest guest]

I would like a recipe for a cream or lotion that would help me clear my skin on

my face. I have insulin resitances which has put black marks on my cheek area.

Anyone know what I could use to lighten up this area?

Thanks,

Beverly in Florida

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.313 / Virus Database: 174 - Release Date: 1/2/02

[Guest guest]

Hi Beth........Yes planters warts are a virus , usually picked up

around swimming pools or walking barefooted where others have walked

that have them , they are a different virus than other warts , like

the ones you get on your hands..etc.......just soaking her feet will

not help get rid of them ,...my daughter got them real bad one year (

we used the city swimming pool for swimming ) one trick to getting

rid of them is putting castor oil on them and then covering with a

piece of duct tape ( ok dont laugh , I found that in a old folk

remedy book and it does work) I used that on my daughter cause I

hadnt gotten into using EO oils yet.....do that morning and

nite.......also you can use Tea Tree oil straight out of the bottle

on them , the tea tree oil will kill the virus .I used the Tea Tree

oil on a planters wart I had and it worked to get rid of it.-...Your

friend can soak her feet in a tea tree soak then use the oil right on

them, put the oil on maorning and nite....

-- In , " bam500k <bam500k@y...> "

<bam500k@y...> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,

> Its me again!!!!!!

>

> Well one of my good friends who is testing my cream just called me

> and asked me if I could come up with a product for her.

>

> She is suffering from planters warts on her feet. She stands all

> day as her and her husband own our local gas station, she does the

> clerical and runs the counter during the day. She said she has

been

> soaking her feet every night, trying everything she can think of to

> help her get rid of them.

>

> She also is interested in herbs and eo and soapmaking (she has

> actually made candles and is an avid basket weaver). So she asked

> me about lavender and tee tree oil. If she were to take a grate up

> a bar of lavender soap (just a little bit in the foot soak water)

> and added a couple of drops of tee tree oil, after time will this

> start helping the planters warts?

>

> Now planters warts are a virus right? So any advice you all can

> give me on this would be great. I am also going out onto the net

> right now to research planters warts a little bit more.

>

> Thanks again (one day I will be able to start answering questions

> for new people).

>

> Beth in MN

[Guest guest]

Beth --

I suffered with plantars warts for quite some time and found after

much testing that the best thing for them was the strongest wart

remover available at my local drugstore. Removers come in at least

two strengths that I've seen. Read the packing -- buy the strongest

one. I was amazed at how well it worked even when I forget to put it

on for a few days. Not only did it clear them up but I haven't had

any reoccurence in over a year! There are even some that come in

patch form for the feet. I believe I used a brush on type but just

have her read the packing carefully for the strongest acid she can

fine. I know it's not an herbal remedy but it works quickly.

Best of luck!

-- Lyn

Hi Everyone,

Its me again!!!!!!

Well one of my good friends who is testing my

cream just called me

and asked me if I could come up with a product

for her.

She is suffering from planters warts on her

feet. She stands all

day as her and her husband own our local gas

station, she does the

clerical and runs the counter during the day.

She said she has been

soaking her feet every night, trying everything

she can think of to

help her get rid of them.

She also is interested in herbs and eo and

soapmaking (she has

actually made candles and is an avid basket

weaver). So she asked

me about lavender and tee tree oil. If she were

to take a grate up

a bar of lavender soap (just a little bit in the

foot soak water)

and added a couple of drops of tee tree oil,

after time will this

start helping the planters warts?

Now planters warts are a virus right? So any

advice you all can

give me on this would be great. I am also going

out onto the net

right now to research planters warts a little

bit more.

Thanks again (one day I will be able to start

answering questions

for new people).

Beth in MN

[Guest guest]

I have a sister in law that used the Atkins plan and she has had great success with it. Of course, she doesn't have any kids at home and she had someone to cook for her most of the time. LOL! I would never make it without the carb/starchy stuff.

Shaw in Nevada

Goal is to get to where the scale can read my weight!

Mom2jmebo@...

[Guest guest]

is anyone doing the Aktins diet i think im going to? the one with the white book cover?have you had good results?>>>

I am doing it, I lost 40 lbs this summer but then around the Holidays stopped doing it, but I am back on it again.

Lucy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/25/03 5:28:18 PM Central Standard Time, lucygirl2@... writes:

is anyone doing the Aktins diet i think im going to? the one with the white book cover?have you had good results?>>>

now remember everybodys differt ok?

so please dont flame me!im very sensitive on this.

yes i tried it,the only thing i lost was 20 thousand dollors

and my credit.

my body fuctions on carbs,

i cut out cokes white stuff,ect.

after 2 weeks my dh picked me off the floor.

i had a heart attack.

the withdrawels sent my body into shock and my heart couldnt take it.

just my story.

and i was 24 at the time.

dont mean to be a downer just not rite for me.

doni

i know several people who had great success.

good luck!

[Guest guest]

Jan and all -

Her name is Deborah Olenev and she practices in the

South San Francisco Bay Area. I believe she also does

phone consultations. You can check her web site at

http://home.att.net/~olenev, or reach her by phone at

650-569-6219.

Best wishes, Jennie Floyd

--- pnutmm92647 <skyqtee@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

> Would you be kind enough in sharing who your Homie

> guy is?

> Name and phone number and location. Thanks in

> advance.

> -Jan

>

=====

The ny Against Fear:

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings

total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and

through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

In any case God is always keeping an eye on things... Herbert, in Dune

[Guest guest]

New York law says that you must have a sincere belief.

You can change your sincere beliefs anytime-we all go through changes.

The fact that her older ones are vaxed is not relevant according to the

law.

I just attended a very informative meeting on the island in which an

attorney explained this. Let me know if you need more info. I will

see what I can find out.

Lora

question

Hello everyone

I have a question for a friend of mine who lives in NY.

She has six children and the first 4 are thus far completely vaxed......

her 5th had what she called a " reaction " to one of the vaxes....

{around 9 days of irritability and crankiness as opposed to the dr

prescribed 3 days thus the drs say it's NOT due to the vax} and now her

6th child is 4 mos old.

She has come a long way since giving birth to her first child and is now

very much into chiropractic and homeopathy. She does not want her #4

child to get the varicela vax and she no longer wants children 5 and 6

to receive vaxes at this time.

She is concerned about the schools. How can she " legimately " say she

no longer wants vaccines for her 4th and 5th children and no vaxes

whatsoever for her 6th child? Can the " system " come down on her b/c

her older ones are vaxed? What kind of argument can she use or does

she need in order to stop the vaxing?

Can any of you give me advice to pass along to her?

Thank you in advance.

~~ Jacqui ~~ homeschooling mom to unvaxed 8y and unvaxed

5y

Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified, do not be discouraged.

For the LORD your GOD is with you wherever you go. 1:9

WomensBibleStudy/

[Guest guest]

Lora - any specifics you could give me would be greatly appreciated. If

you want to send it off-list, my e-addy is: jacq210@...

I leave it up to you as to where you want to send the info.

Thank you so much.

~~ Jacqui ~~ homeschooling mom to unvaxed 8y and unvaxed 5y

Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified, do not be discouraged. For

the LORD your GOD is with you wherever you go. 1:9

WomensBibleStudy/

----- Original Message -----

From: " Lora Penola " <lorapeno@...>

> New York law says that you must have a sincere belief.

> You can change your sincere beliefs anytime-we all go through changes.

> The fact that her older ones are vaxed is not relevant according to the

> law.

> I just attended a very informative meeting on the island in which an

> attorney explained this. Let me know if you need more info. I will

> see what I can find out.

> Lora

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: [mailto:jacq210@...]

>

> Hello everyone

>

> I have a question for a friend of mine who lives in NY.

>

> She has six children and the first 4 are thus far completely vaxed......

> her 5th had what she called a " reaction " to one of the vaxes....

> {around 9 days of irritability and crankiness as opposed to the dr

> prescribed 3 days thus the drs say it's NOT due to the vax} and now her

> 6th child is 4 mos old.

>

> She has come a long way since giving birth to her first child and is now

> very much into chiropractic and homeopathy. She does not want her #4

> child to get the varicela vax and she no longer wants children 5 and 6

> to receive vaxes at this time.

>

> She is concerned about the schools. How can she " legimately " say she

> no longer wants vaccines for her 4th and 5th children and no vaxes

> whatsoever for her 6th child? Can the " system " come down on her b/c

> her older ones are vaxed? What kind of argument can she use or does

> she need in order to stop the vaxing?

>

> Can any of you give me advice to pass along to her?

>

> Thank you in advance.

>

> ~~ Jacqui ~~

[Guest guest]

Dasweeney, well said. Thank you. Indeed we all need to be thankful for the

information that Sheri has taken her personal time to share with us. I get a

little ill when rather than seeing emails thanking Sheri, I see whining,

quick dismissal of new information, and intolerance for a new way of

thinking. Those of you with complaints about the list perhaps should

consider discussing them off-list with Sheri. Also, I take offense at the

dig at homeopathy. Many listmembers have benefitted from it. If one wishes

not to use it, fine. But don't try to take it away from members who

appreciate having this excellent tool in our endeavor for true health.

I, for one, am quite pleased with the list and believe it just as good as

when I signed on several years ago. So let me take the time to send a big

thank you to Sheri who does her best to get us to think for ourselves. It's

not an easy job because most people have an emotional investment in the

beliefs we hold, thus we don't like to change our belief system.

Kathleen

In a message dated 4/1/2003 11:07:26 AM Central Standard Time,

dasweeney@... writes:

> You all should be thankful for this list and what Sherri does.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree, it's very disturbing and sad. I've been on this list since

'98 or '99 and it's gone down hill considerably, the point of the list

was forgotten at some point shortly after nicole passed the baton. Seems

it's become a heavy handed forum of single mindedness with the sole

purpose of selling homeopathy classes.

Shelby

imusmcwife wrote:

>Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then is

> on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she VOICES it

>more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

>

>I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

>simply HAD to ask the question.

>

>This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

>

>MY humble opinion.

>

>Stacey

>Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the time.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phhhhew! I thought I was the only person who felt that way besides

, who now can't even post her opinion!

Stacey

>

> >Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then is

> > on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she VOICES

it

> >more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

> >

> >I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

> >simply HAD to ask the question.

> >

> >This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

> >

> >MY humble opinion.

> >

> >Stacey

> >Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the time.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

TListen - youy start a list if you want one.

SHe is on moderate because she is a little distressed right now and

misunderstanding people

Her emails are posted, just moderated frist.

She is not modreated because she is voicing her concerns.

I think maybe everyone needs to take a deep breath

I have to think of all here and peace on this list (even if there isn't

peace in the world)

Everything she has sent has been posted.

You may not know the whole story of what I have to deal with here and don't

get paid, now do I.

Sheri

At 03:53 PM 04/01/2003 -0000, you wrote:

>Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then is

> on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she VOICES it

>more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

>

>I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

>simply HAD to ask the question.

>

>This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

>

>MY humble opinion.

>

>Stacey

>Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the time.

>

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Classical Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@... voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

Homeopathy course - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/homeo.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL

OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

******

" Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down.

Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy

knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information

and religions destroy spirituality " .... Ellner

[Guest guest]

What??????????/

hasn't been here for about 4 years

And just what is the point of the list, Shelby?

You are all welcome to start your own lists

I think your statements are totally unfair

I email privately everyone who joins this list. I help people constantly

with vaccine dangers info. I help them find treatment. People phone me at

all hours of the day and night. I research articles, I maintain a webpage

for informatoin

And I teach homeopathy so you all don't have to be dependent on allopathic

treatment and can take charge of your own health - 4 month class for a

measly $50. I teach it so you won't be taken in by most homeopaths out

there that aren't worth their weight in salt as that is the feedback I get

all the time.

I have spies get on this list and do all I can to protect all of

you................

So until you've walked a mile in my shoes, you might want to think about it

Thanks so much. I've pretty much had it and this is nearly the straw that

breaks the camels' back

Sheri

moderator

At 11:01 AM 04/01/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Yes, I agree, it's very disturbing and sad. I've been on this list since

>'98 or '99 and it's gone down hill considerably, the point of the list

>was forgotten at some point shortly after nicole passed the baton. Seems

>it's become a heavy handed forum of single mindedness with the sole

>purpose of selling homeopathy classes.

>Shelby

>

>imusmcwife wrote:

>

>>Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then is

>> on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she VOICES it

>>more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

>>

>>I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

>>simply HAD to ask the question.

>>

>>This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

>>

>>MY humble opinion.

>>

>>Stacey

>>Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the time.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

The point of this list was discussing and sharing information about

vaccines, not brow beating and harassing everyone who joins into

following your particular ideal. Yes sheri, I've been on this list since

shortly after nicole started it and there were 60 members.

The martyr routine doesn't cut it with me any more, you've used it too

many times. I tired of it when you admonished the list for not standing

out in the rain to protest " mad-cow " beside you. You used to have a lot

more help researching and presenting information but you've driven away

most of the credible, knowledgeable members. I've done my share, I used

to help gather information, used to frequent vaccine boards at parenting

web sites (yeah, remember when we did that sheri, when you were just a

human like the rest of us?). Quite frankly, you've become flaky and it's

a turn off. It makes me question information you present and hesitant to

refer anyone to this list. And your homeopathy classes are an obvious

conflict of interest.

Shelby

Sheri Nakken wrote:

>What??????????/

> hasn't been here for about 4 years

>And just what is the point of the list, Shelby?

>

>You are all welcome to start your own lists

>I think your statements are totally unfair

>I email privately everyone who joins this list. I help people constantly

>with vaccine dangers info. I help them find treatment. People phone me at

>all hours of the day and night. I research articles, I maintain a webpage

>for informatoin

>

>And I teach homeopathy so you all don't have to be dependent on allopathic

>treatment and can take charge of your own health - 4 month class for a

>measly $50. I teach it so you won't be taken in by most homeopaths out

>there that aren't worth their weight in salt as that is the feedback I get

>all the time.

>

>I have spies get on this list and do all I can to protect all of

>you................

>

>So until you've walked a mile in my shoes, you might want to think about it

>Thanks so much. I've pretty much had it and this is nearly the straw that

>breaks the camels' back

>Sheri

>moderator

>

>At 11:01 AM 04/01/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>

>

>>Yes, I agree, it's very disturbing and sad. I've been on this list since

>>'98 or '99 and it's gone down hill considerably, the point of the list

>>was forgotten at some point shortly after nicole passed the baton. Seems

>>it's become a heavy handed forum of single mindedness with the sole

>>purpose of selling homeopathy classes.

>>Shelby

>>

>>imusmcwife wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>>Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then is

>>> on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she VOICES it

>>>more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

>>>

>>>I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

>>>simply HAD to ask the question.

>>>

>>>This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

>>>

>>>MY humble opinion.

>>>

>>>Stacey

>>>Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the time.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

Sheri - there are 410 members of this list and maybe 15 who post

regularly -- how do you determine who is a a spy? What exactly is a

spy -- isn't all the information shared on the list information that

is available elsewhere anyway? It's not confidential or anything?

Are you a Homeopath?

Stacey

Who thinks it's great to have all the information in the same place.

> >

> >>Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then

is

> >> on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she

VOICES it

> >>more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

> >>

> >>I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

> >>simply HAD to ask the question.

> >>

> >>This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

> >>

> >>MY humble opinion.

> >>

> >>Stacey

> >>Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the

time.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

You all should be thankful for this list and what Sherri does. About

2 weeks ago I had my email address and posts I sent to this list sent

to a list of pediatritions and was threatened by them to contact my

internet provider for copyright infringment not even made by me as

well as possible legal action taken against me. I post here maybe 10

times a year and am no mail yet I got harrassed for at least a week

bc a *spy* took stuff from this list eleswhere.

Take your imamture whining and start your own list and let everyone

you want on it, then come crying back to Sheri to let you back here

to this list when you see what those who don't agree with you will

recklessly do on your list and to you! My gosh, she has your

personal interest at hand here - can't you see that?

Dawn

> >

> > >Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then

is

> > > on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she

VOICES

> it

> > >more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

> > >

> > >I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

> > >simply HAD to ask the question.

> > >

> > >This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

> > >

> > >MY humble opinion.

> > >

> > >Stacey

> > >Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the

time.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I agree with Dawn.

I have a mercury damaged child and have no time REPEAT NO TIME for

dissension or kindgarten behaviour. I am in a race against time. Every

little bickering post that I have to plow through is a waste of the time I

need for my daughter.

If you're in a bad mood, keep it off list and go take a sauna or better

still just drop out of the list.

Sheri is doing a great job in keeping this forum going. No one is forced to

take part.

Best regards,

Re: Question

> You all should be thankful for this list and what Sherri does. About

> 2 weeks ago I had my email address and posts I sent to this list sent

> to a list of pediatritions and was threatened by them to contact my

> internet provider for copyright infringment not even made by me as

> well as possible legal action taken against me. I post here maybe 10

> times a year and am no mail yet I got harrassed for at least a week

> bc a *spy* took stuff from this list eleswhere.

>

> Take your imamture whining and start your own list and let everyone

> you want on it, then come crying back to Sheri to let you back here

> to this list when you see what those who don't agree with you will

> recklessly do on your list and to you! My gosh, she has your

> personal interest at hand here - can't you see that?

>

> Dawn

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > >Ok, so isn't this whole list about freedom of sorts? WHY then

> is

> > > > on Moderate? Because she's afraid? Because she

> VOICES

> > it

> > > >more than the rest of us? Seems really unfair...

> > > >

> > > >I suppose I'll be placed on moderate too now (or worse), but I

> > > >simply HAD to ask the question.

> > > >

> > > >This list used to be more supportive and less fanatical.

> > > >

> > > >MY humble opinion.

> > > >

> > > >Stacey

> > > >Who ENJOYS the information this list provides... most of the

> time.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >