Iron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/28/01 12:30:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,

baumelj@... writes:

<< (12.4 or so) but very low ferritin and my doctor wants me to take iron

pills

for three months to supplement, he says my levels are very very low (18.2 on

a scale of 12-300, that's half dead!)

Anyhow, I remember a thread - Ken was that you? - which said that PWC's have

iron problems but shouldn't take iron as it adds to their problems. So what

can I do/ I have to take iron on the one hand otherwise I will be in big

trouble if I need reserves, on the other hand, what about the problem with

taking it? Anyone taking supplements? What kind? Suggestions?

Thanks,

Judy B >>

Hi Judy, I also have low iron. Yes, after much research it is my opinion

that you need to take iron if its low. Then when it comes back up or you

feel a like it has come back up, stop taking it. I take it in my

multivitamin three time a week. Its hard to find one that doesn't hurt your

stomach(a plain iron supp). If someone knows of one please tell us. At

first everyone was saying not take iron but now that has changed,,,,but it is

crucial that you don't take to much. Yes, whey will help iron get into the

rest of the body, I use immuplus, because the pro was terrible for me. I

feel better using the iron.

[Guest guest]

Dear Everyone,

I wrote last week but receive no reply from the group so here goes again.

Anyone on the list plagued with low iron? I have decent hemoglobin levels

(12.4 or so) but very low ferritin and my doctor wants me to take iron pills

for three months to supplement, he says my levels are very very low (18.2 on

a scale of 12-300, that's half dead!)

Anyhow, I remember a thread - Ken was that you? - which said that PWC's have

iron problems but shouldn't take iron as it adds to their problems. So what

can I do/ I have to take iron on the one hand otherwise I will be in big

trouble if I need reserves, on the other hand, what about the problem with

taking it? Anyone taking supplements? What kind? Suggestions?

Thanks,

Judy B.

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I have low iron too (our MD said I had NO iron, but I wasn't anemic),

and I have been taking iron supplements. Ken and I were concerned

about it because he had read that the mycoplasma may consume the

iron, feeding the infection rather than myself. Ken will likely

post later, but my recollection is that there was some reason to

believe that whey could help block the mycoplasma from taking the

iron. Sorry I can't remember more myself...

My iron levels are slightly improved.

Laurie

[Guest guest]

> Dear Everyone,

> I wrote last week but receive no reply from the group so here goes

again.

> Anyone on the list plagued with low iron? I have decent hemoglobin

levels

> (12.4 or so) but very low ferritin and my doctor wants me to take

iron pills

> for three months to supplement, he says my levels are very very low

(18.2 on

> a scale of 12-300, that's half dead!)

> Anyhow, I remember a thread - Ken was that you? - which said that

PWC's have

> iron problems but shouldn't take iron as it adds to their problems.

So what

> can I do/ I have to take iron on the one hand otherwise I will be in

big

> trouble if I need reserves, on the other hand, what about the

problem with

> taking it? Anyone taking supplements? What kind? Suggestions?

> Thanks,

> Judy B.

Judy,

You got the best test run for iron status, which is serum ferritin,

and your number is low. It is in the range characterized as Stage I

iron deficiency, also known as " iron-store depletion. " You are not

anemic, but you are getting close to it.

It is important to determine why your iron stores are low. I assume

that menstruation is a factor in your case. I wonder if your diet is

particularly low in iron, also. The main thing is that you want to

rule out any occult bleeding, such as from an ulcer in the digestive

tract.

Yes, it would be a good idea to build up your iron stores. There are

two general forms of iron that can be taken orally: heme iron and

non-heme iron. Heme iron is the best absorbed, and can be obtained in

the form of hydrolyzed liver extract. Non-heme iron is most commonly

prescribed, even though not as well absorbed. The most common iron

pill is ferrous sulfate. Another is ferrous fumarate. These are

absorbed about 2.9% on an empty stomach and 0.9% with food. The

absorption of heme iron is about 35%.

The concern about taking iron is that if you have unbound iron in your

body, it acts as a catalyst to make oxidizing free radicals. PWCs are

known to be under oxidative stress already, so Dr. Cheney has

recommended that iron (and copper) not be supplemented in CFS.

In my layman's opinion (recognizing that I am not licensed to diagnose

or prescribe), in your case your more important concern is to get your

iron stores back up into the normal range, rather than being concerned

about unbound iron. Even though you are not anemic at present, your

body may already be having difficulty making enough iron-containing

enzymes such as the cytochromes that are needed for your main

metabolism and for detox of toxic substances. If you want to guard

against oxidizing free radicals while increasing your iron stores,

your best bet would be to take heme iron (liver extract), together

with vitamin C (which will keep the iron in the reduced ferrous state

and improve its absorption), and together with a good set of

antioxidant supplements (Co Q-10, vitamin E, selenium, beta carotene,

alpha lipoic acid, precursors for making glutathione (such as a

nondenatured whey protein product), and plant-based antioxidants).

That way, you can have the best of both worlds.

As usual, please run this by your doctor before you decide to follow

any of my advice.

Rich

[Guest guest]

Dear Rich,

As usual thanks for the advice I will try and follow. Will check out where I

can get heme iron and see about taking it. As of now my doctor prescribed

the other kind of iron twice a day (pills of 40mg. total iron each). The

problem with the other supplements is that my liver functions were up and

the doctor who is treating me thinks that it was a reaction to all the

supplements. So after going off everything for a few weeks and having liver

functions go back to normal, he suggested that I take C along with the iron,

eat lots of vitamin A (but not supplement as it can be toxic) and, yes my

diet was probably iron deficient and the loss came from menstruation at my

age. he doesn't think it was anything else, but he said to stop the amino

acids I was taking, the B12 (my levels tested fine) and even the magnesium

and zinc. I am not sure how much he is into vitamin therapy and had it not

been for my liver function problem I wouldn't have hesitated to start taking

supplements again, but I dont know...anyhow, hope that I can get hold of

liver extract and I will start eating liver. I wonder whether it will be bad

to take both the iron he prescribed and a liver extract pill...there is such

a thing as too much, am I right?

Thanks again,

Judy

Re: iron

>

> > Dear Everyone,

> > I wrote last week but receive no reply from the group so here goes

> again.

> > Anyone on the list plagued with low iron? I have decent hemoglobin

> levels

> > (12.4 or so) but very low ferritin and my doctor wants me to take

> iron pills

> > for three months to supplement, he says my levels are very very low

> (18.2 on

> > a scale of 12-300, that's half dead!)

> > Anyhow, I remember a thread - Ken was that you? - which said that

> PWC's have

> > iron problems but shouldn't take iron as it adds to their problems.

> So what

> > can I do/ I have to take iron on the one hand otherwise I will be in

> big

> > trouble if I need reserves, on the other hand, what about the

> problem with

> > taking it? Anyone taking supplements? What kind? Suggestions?

> > Thanks,

> > Judy B.

>

> Judy,

>

> You got the best test run for iron status, which is serum ferritin,

> and your number is low. It is in the range characterized as Stage I

> iron deficiency, also known as " iron-store depletion. " You are not

> anemic, but you are getting close to it.

>

> It is important to determine why your iron stores are low. I assume

> that menstruation is a factor in your case. I wonder if your diet is

> particularly low in iron, also. The main thing is that you want to

> rule out any occult bleeding, such as from an ulcer in the digestive

> tract.

>

> Yes, it would be a good idea to build up your iron stores. There are

> two general forms of iron that can be taken orally: heme iron and

> non-heme iron. Heme iron is the best absorbed, and can be obtained in

> the form of hydrolyzed liver extract. Non-heme iron is most commonly

> prescribed, even though not as well absorbed. The most common iron

> pill is ferrous sulfate. Another is ferrous fumarate. These are

> absorbed about 2.9% on an empty stomach and 0.9% with food. The

> absorption of heme iron is about 35%.

>

> The concern about taking iron is that if you have unbound iron in your

> body, it acts as a catalyst to make oxidizing free radicals. PWCs are

> known to be under oxidative stress already, so Dr. Cheney has

> recommended that iron (and copper) not be supplemented in CFS.

>

> In my layman's opinion (recognizing that I am not licensed to diagnose

> or prescribe), in your case your more important concern is to get your

> iron stores back up into the normal range, rather than being concerned

> about unbound iron. Even though you are not anemic at present, your

> body may already be having difficulty making enough iron-containing

> enzymes such as the cytochromes that are needed for your main

> metabolism and for detox of toxic substances. If you want to guard

> against oxidizing free radicals while increasing your iron stores,

> your best bet would be to take heme iron (liver extract), together

> with vitamin C (which will keep the iron in the reduced ferrous state

> and improve its absorption), and together with a good set of

> antioxidant supplements (Co Q-10, vitamin E, selenium, beta carotene,

> alpha lipoic acid, precursors for making glutathione (such as a

> nondenatured whey protein product), and plant-based antioxidants).

> That way, you can have the best of both worlds.

>

> As usual, please run this by your doctor before you decide to follow

> any of my advice.

>

> Rich

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

Judy

Re: Re: iron

> In a message dated 2/28/01 12:30:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> baumelj@... writes:

>

> << (12.4 or so) but very low ferritin and my doctor wants me to take iron

> pills

> for three months to supplement, he says my levels are very very low (18.2

on

> a scale of 12-300, that's half dead!)

> Anyhow, I remember a thread - Ken was that you? - which said that PWC's

have

> iron problems but shouldn't take iron as it adds to their problems. So

what

> can I do/ I have to take iron on the one hand otherwise I will be in big

> trouble if I need reserves, on the other hand, what about the problem

with

> taking it? Anyone taking supplements? What kind? Suggestions?

> Thanks,

> Judy B >>

>

> Hi Judy, I also have low iron. Yes, after much research it is my opinion

> that you need to take iron if its low. Then when it comes back up or you

> feel a like it has come back up, stop taking it. I take it in my

> multivitamin three time a week. Its hard to find one that doesn't hurt

your

> stomach(a plain iron supp). If someone knows of one please tell us. At

> first everyone was saying not take iron but now that has changed,,,,but it

is

> crucial that you don't take to much. Yes, whey will help iron get into

the

> rest of the body, I use immuplus, because the pro was terrible for me. I

> feel better using the iron.

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Laurie,

Both you and have posted me about taking whey supplements along with

the iron so I will speak to my doctor and if he has no problems with it, I

will start taking it again.

Best,

Judy

Re: iron

> Judy,

> I have low iron too (our MD said I had NO iron, but I wasn't anemic),

> and I have been taking iron supplements. Ken and I were concerned

> about it because he had read that the mycoplasma may consume the

> iron, feeding the infection rather than myself. Ken will likely

> post later, but my recollection is that there was some reason to

> believe that whey could help block the mycoplasma from taking the

> iron. Sorry I can't remember more myself...

>

> My iron levels are slightly improved.

>

> Laurie

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

hope that I can get

hold of

> liver extract and I will start eating liver. I wonder whether it

will be bad

> to take both the iron he prescribed and a liver extract pill...there

is such

> a thing as too much, am I right?

> Thanks again,

> Judy

Judy,

It's probably O.K. to do both, so long as you have your blood tested

periodically to make sure you haven't absorbed too much iron. Excess

iron does cause problems.

Rich

[Guest guest]

Dear Rich,

That's hemochromatosis if I remember correctly or something like that. I am

rather far from that state and yes, my internist said to be tested in three

months and to relax until then, I'm not at death's door...or at least so he

thinks. Considering that he is the chair of an internal medicine department

and practices clinical medicine, I am told (and hope) that he knows what he

is doing...anyhow, just took out some liver from the freezer and will make

myself chopped liver for tomorrow's supper...my grandmother (who believed

that chopped liver cured anything that chicken soup would not) must be doing

somersaults in her grave out of joy...

Thanks again for all the advice, It's wonderful to have someone so

knowledgeable to turn to.

Judy

Re: iron

>

>

> hope that I can get

> hold of

> > liver extract and I will start eating liver. I wonder whether it

> will be bad

> > to take both the iron he prescribed and a liver extract pill...there

> is such

> > a thing as too much, am I right?

> > Thanks again,

> > Judy

>

> Judy,

>

> It's probably O.K. to do both, so long as you have your blood tested

> periodically to make sure you haven't absorbed too much iron. Excess

> iron does cause problems.

>

> Rich

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

We just had my son, Gene's, labs done...CBC, thyroid, chem panel and iron and

celiac. THe celiac isn't back yet though I have no reason to think he has

this problem. But his iron came back quite low. THe Dr. said she sees this

in puberty with kids. Gene eats alot of cheerios that supply iron and red

meat. Have any of you seen this with your chldren?

Lauri

[Guest guest]

Lauri,

Does that mean he's anemic? When had surgery last month, they did

bloodwork and told me that he is anemic. I don't know if it is related to

the surgery directly (he had to get blood to replace what he lost) or if he

was anemic prior to the surgery.

Terry

[Guest guest]

is always quite pale looking, he was a little low when really little,

we had to give him vitamins with iron in it i remember, but i havent heard

anything lately from his docs in that area, and he gets blood drawn pretty

regualary. shawna.

>From: timothytlstein@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Iron

>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:12:58 EST

>

>Hello all,

>

>We just had my son, Gene's, labs done...CBC, thyroid, chem panel and iron

>and

>celiac. THe celiac isn't back yet though I have no reason to think he has

>this problem. But his iron came back quite low. THe Dr. said she sees

>this

>in puberty with kids. Gene eats alot of cheerios that supply iron and red

>meat. Have any of you seen this with your chldren?

>

>Lauri

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

a,

It was really hard for me to get on the doc's charts,

but I eventully got on the charts. I was always

skinny, but I was always a good eater, so I guess

height was an issue unitll I finally managed to get on

the charts. Unlike my brother who shot on the height

chart, even off the charts.

--- mashawna g <mashawnag@...> wrote:

> is always quite pale looking, he was a little

> low when really little,

> we had to give him vitamins with iron in it i

> remember, but i havent heard

> anything lately from his docs in that area, and he

> gets blood drawn pretty

> regualary. shawna.

>

>

> >From: timothytlstein@...

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Re: Iron

> >Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:12:58 EST

> >

> >Hello all,

> >

> >We just had my son, Gene's, labs done...CBC,

> thyroid, chem panel and iron

> >and

> >celiac. THe celiac isn't back yet though I have no

> reason to think he has

> >this problem. But his iron came back quite low.

> THe Dr. said she sees

> >this

> >in puberty with kids. Gene eats alot of cheerios

> that supply iron and red

> >meat. Have any of you seen this with your chldren?

> >

> >Lauri

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

> http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know, I don't think so.

--- timothytlstein@... wrote:

> Hello all,

>

> We just had my son, Gene's, labs done...CBC,

> thyroid, chem panel and iron and

> celiac. THe celiac isn't back yet though I have no

> reason to think he has

> this problem. But his iron came back quite low.

> THe Dr. said she sees this

> in puberty with kids. Gene eats alot of cheerios

> that supply iron and red

> meat. Have any of you seen this with your chldren?

>

> Lauri

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Terry,

Is on Depakote? If he is it can cause a lot of side effects which

might account for the anemia. I hope he is feeling okay these days.

Marisa

[Guest guest]

Hi Marisa,

Yes, is on Depekene....(liquid form of Depekote). I know that both

it and Tegretol can cause a number of blood anomalies, like anemia and low

white blood count. I was kind of surprised that has anemia now

because he has been on the Depekene since 1994. He has had a chronicly low

white blood count all along and sometimes his red blood count is low as well.

In fact, his white blood count has been so low for so long that the doctors

have considered doing a bone marrow biopsy to find out why. I wish they

would have thought of it when he had his hip surgery! I thought it was low

hemoglobin that indicated anemia, but I'm probably confused. Not hard to do

these days! LOL

is ok, thanks for asking.

Terry

[Guest guest]

I was taking Slow Fe before I switched to Floradix.

john kidd <blue@...> wrote:

i take a iron pill .......that is the most easily assimilated, accordin to my pharmacist........he is a good one........the brand name escapes me as i threw the box away........they are each wrapped in cellaphane........not much help there........but he said some iron will go rite through you with out even stopping............

[Guest guest]

-- In , " vicki "

<lghthousegrl@c...> wrote:

> im taking my vitamins. am i supposed to take an extra iron pill??

>

You are supposed to take a MultiVitamin with Iron in it.

[Guest guest]

> > im taking my vitamins. am i supposed to take an extra iron pill??

> >

>

>

> You are supposed to take a MultiVitamin with Iron in it.

********************************************

doin that. and an extra one for calcium. but im not taking an iron

supplements

vicki

251/230/150

ds 9/8/03

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Jo...just printed this. Susie

> This was referenced on the main ds group I found it

> interesting information taken from costco.com under pharmacy.

> +++++++++++++++++++++++

>

>

> Many foods, beverages and supplements have been shown to affect the

> absorption of iron.50

>

> Foods, beverages and supplements that interfere with iron

absorption

> include:

>

> Green tea (Camellia sinensis).51 52 53 54 This effect may be

> desirable for people with iron overload diseases, such as

> hemochromatosis. The inhibitory effect of green tea on iron

> absorption was 26% in one study.55

>

> Coffee (Coffea arabica, C. robusta).56 57 58

>

> Red wine, particularly the polyphenol component (also found in

> tea).59 60

>

> Phytate (phytic acid), found in unleavened wheat products such as

> matzoh, pita, and some rye crackers; in wheat germ, oats, nuts,

> cacao powder, vanilla extract, beans, and many other foods, and in

> IP-6 supplements.61 62 63

>

> Whole wheat bran, independent of its phytate content, has been

shown

> to inhibit iron absorption.64

>

> Calcium from food and supplements interferes with heme-iron

> absorption.65 66

>

> Soy protein.67 68

>

> Eggs.69 70

>

> Foods and supplements that increase iron absorption include:

>

> Meat, poultry, and fish.71 72 73 74 75

>

> Although vitamin C increases iron absorption,76 77 78 79 the effect

> is relatively minor.80

>

> Taking vitamin A with iron helps treat iron deficiency, since

> vitamin A improves the absorption and/or utilization of iron.81 82

>

> Although soy protein has been shown to decrease iron absorption

(see

> above), certain soy-containing foods (e.g. tofu, miso, tempeh) have

> significantly improved iron absorption.83 Some soy sauces may also

> enhance iron absorption.84

>

> Alcohol, but not red wine, has been reported to increase the

> absorption of ferric, but not ferrous, iron.85 86

>

> Iron has been reported to potentially interfere with manganese

> absorption. In one trial, women with high iron status had

relatively

> poor absorption of manganese.87 In another trial studying

> manganese/iron interactions in women, increased intake of " non-heme

> iron " —the kind of iron found in most supplements—decreased

manganese

> status.88 These interactions suggest that taking multiminerals that

> include manganese may protect against manganese deficiencies that

> might otherwise be triggered by taking isolated iron supplements.

[Guest guest]

So, basically, we need to just stop eating and only take

supplements. LOL!

Tracey

> This was referenced on the main ds group I found it

> interesting information taken from costco.com under pharmacy.

> +++++++++++++++++++++++

>

>

> Many foods, beverages and supplements have been shown to affect

the

> absorption of iron.50

>

[Guest guest]

> So, basically, we need to just stop eating and only take

> supplements. LOL!

>

> Tracey

>

Too funny Tracey, cause that was my first thought too! But I didnt

post it cause I was a very good girl the other day, and wanted to

stay in mamma Jos good graces...lol

Sharon in Onyx

who believes great minds think alike!

[Guest guest]

Hee hee! We always seem to do that, don't we? Think alike.

Honestly, I just don't pay that much attention to that kind of

stuff. It seems like everything out there has some potential to be

harmful. I just concentrate on taking my supplements, keeping my

protein up, and doing my exercises and hope for the best. Unless,

of course, somewhere down the road I have some deficiencies. Then I

suppose I'll have to start paying more attention. LOL!

Tracey

> > So, basically, we need to just stop eating and only take

> > supplements. LOL!

> >

> > Tracey

> >

>

>

> Too funny Tracey, cause that was my first thought too! But I

didnt

> post it cause I was a very good girl the other day, and wanted to

> stay in mamma Jos good graces...lol

> Sharon in Onyx

> who believes great minds think alike!

[Guest guest]

> > So, basically, we need to just stop eating and only take

> > supplements. LOL!

> >

> > Tracey

------------------------

Naw...that won't work either because too many supplements interfere

with the absorbtion of iron also....oh the tangled web we weave! lol

Jo

[Guest guest]

> > So, basically, we need to just stop eating and only take

> > supplements. LOL!

> >

> > Tracey

------------------------

Naw...that won't work either because too many supplements interfere

with the absorbtion of iron also....oh the tangled web we weave! lol

Jo