Hello everyone

July 2, 2001

In a message dated 7/1/01 9:25:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

crowcountryhf@... writes:

> Anyhow... wanted to introduce myself (and my mom). I look forward to

> chatting and dealing with y'all.

>

Hi Don and Mom!

Welcome to the group! I am in South Carolina. Let us know how we can help.

Angie

The Herbarie

at Stoney Hill Farm

Angie

The Herbarie

at Stoney Hill Farm

July 2, 2001

HI Don

> Anyhow... wanted to introduce myself (and my mom). I look forward to

> chatting and dealing with y'all.

>

Welcome to the list. Sounds like your mother and you have a good thing

going!!! )

Hope the summer tourist season goes well for you!!!

&

http://www.betweenfriendstoo.com

Supplier of quality products for your soap making and body essential needs.

August 6, 2001

In a message dated 8/6/01 10:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cathcart@... writes:

We also found it rather disheartening that not a single parent we met at the conference has their child in private school (everyone either fights the local school district, or homeschools).

So it looks like we are back to public school again this year. We are actually going to have Grant repeat the 8th grade, hoping that the extra year of maturity will do him some good. I took a lot of notes in the talk on "Getting your local school to listen" and have a 3 inch thick notebook of Grant's entire educational history. I hope I can be a better advocate for him this year.

Any words of advise, encouragement, warning!

--

I personally went to a private Catholic school when I was in my elementary years, and due to my fearful experiences there, I refused to even entertain the idea of private education for any of my 3 sons (despite my parents disappointment). Granted, the nuns and priests don't beat you with a ruler anymore, nor do they force you into confession and make you repeat prayers that make no sense, but from MY perspective---- private schools are for 4 reasons: 1) religious (although one must be careful with religion due to scrupulocity OCD) 2) your child is a disciplinary problem and needs a 'heavy hand' or 3) s/he has military ambitions (and would enjoy a private school with a military emphasis) or 4) your child is academically gifted and bright and succeeds in an environment where self-discipline and academics RULE.

This is NOT a place where children with NPD's should be. However, that's just MY opinion.

They aren't protected by the law and basically, you as a parent have to go along with whatever they decide--- which is usually nothing except more discipline, or they get kicked out.

The public school system has so much more to offer.

-Your son could enter the 8th grade as a normal 8th grader

-Your son could get an IEP or 504 and be protected under the disability act and thus, the school has to accomodate his disorder (by reducing and making adjustments to the requirements) -- all within the 8th grade classroom

-Your son could use the 'special ed' program which will offer tudors and MORE help, if needed.

-If your son's OCD is severe, he could also go into a 'self-contained' environment which will offer even MORE accomodations and support. I'm not sure if 'self-contained' is available to an 8th grader, but it IS available in elementary school.

None of these services are available thru' the private school system that I know of. The only 'fighting' I've done with the public school system is to FIGHT their recommendations that my son *needs more help.* In other words, I tend to be in DENIAL about him (LOL) and don't want to hear 'We feel he may need more assistance..." Public school is an all-you-can-eat buffet bar--- and the decisions can be tough. But, the level of COMPASSION towards kids who are having problems is wonderful. I actually REGRET that I never had the opportunity to attend public school in my elementary years because private school TAINTED my perceptions of the world. Most of the kids that attended were 1) extremely wealthy 'brats' 2) were a discipline problem or 3) their parents were racists and wanted to keep their child from interacting with minorities....

*sigh* I'm sure many kids were there for religious education, however, once I entered public school in the 7th grade, I realized just how sheltered I had been from a whole WORLD of people, ideas, and situations that would have BENEFITED my development!!! I feel as though private school stunted my personal growth in many ways..... One of my sisters developed an ANXIETY DISORDER in the 4th grade thanks to an abusive nun who enjoyed torturing little children.... Granted, times have changed, but I'm still distrustful of 'closed systems' and prefer that my child is exposed to a VARIETY of people and is protected under the law.

For what it's worth, you can get more information about the 'self-contained' classroom by doing a search in our archives for those words. I posted my own personal dilema back in May or June about a big decision I was trying to make about my own son. The posts were wonderfully informative about all the options my son has (keeping him mainstreamed, or go into self-contained).

I still haven't made my decision.... however I see that he NEEDS self-contained. This summer has been an eye-opener for me as to how much my son is mentally tortured everyday by OCD. However, I'm so torn due to my own 'self containment' as a child in an abusive *Private* School System.... is it any wonder I'm distrustful? I'm sure I have no reason to be, but I am, nonetheless.... proceeding with caution... LOL Naturally, I'm a little distrustful of children in ANYTHING that resembles the isolation (and subsequent cruelty) I endured in Private School.

Just my two cents....

Joni

Mom of (20), (18, ADHD+mild OCD) and (10, OCD)

P.S. Welcome to the group!

August 6, 2001

In a message dated 8/6/01 2:52:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nmlinnen@... writes:

I think private school can be accomodating due to the size and less bureacracy, and parent involvement, and also because of shared values-which creates a connection rather than a parent vs teacher scenario. ***But, if they are real tied up in standards, competition, grade point average etc, they might not want students with difficulties. *** This is really not very charitable or in keeping ith religious values IMO, so I think a truly religious school would be charitable before they'd be "success at all costs" oriented.

This was my experience. The private school I attended - (and it hasn't improved since I was a child-- my nephews attend the same school) is overly concerned with standards, COMPETITION, grade point average AND extreme DISCIPLINE. My sister pulled both of her sons out after 2 years because they were so miserable.

If only there were more private schools with a focus on CHARITY, Grace.... If so, I'd be more open to the idea.

Joni

August 6, 2001

My daughter (age 8 bipolar/ocd) attends a private Catholic School and has for three years along with my other two kids. Our school is wonderful - totally accomodating and understanding. They have accepted our "Recommendation - IEP" with no problems and they work with us on every issue. Our school has teachers that are very loving not to mention that have their masters in special ed too. We have been very fortunate. My daughter loves structure - and wearing the same uniform every day - routine etc. This has worked for us so far and only time will tell for the future but right now we're at peace with our school.

in PA

-----Original Message-----From: lyricaldreamer@... [mailto:lyricaldreamer@...]Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Hello everyoneIn a message dated 8/6/01 10:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cathcart@... writes:

We also found it rather disheartening that not a single parent we met at the conference has their child in private school (everyone either fights the local school district, or homeschools). So it looks like we are back to public school again this year. We are actually going to have Grant repeat the 8th grade, hoping that the extra year of maturity will do him some good. I took a lot of notes in the talk on "Getting your local school to listen" and have a 3 inch thick notebook of Grant's entire educational history. I hope I can be a better advocate for him this year. Any words of advise, encouragement, warning! -- I personally went to a private Catholic school when I was in my elementary years, and due to my fearful experiences there, I refused to even entertain the idea of private education for any of my 3 sons (despite my parents disappointment). Granted, the nuns and priests don't beat you with a ruler anymore, nor do they force you into confession and make you repeat prayers that make no sense, but from MY perspective---- private schools are for 4 reasons: 1) religious (although one must be careful with religion due to scrupulocity OCD) 2) your child is a disciplinary problem and needs a 'heavy hand' or 3) s/he has military ambitions (and would enjoy a private school with a military emphasis) or 4) your child is academically gifted and bright and succeeds in an environment where self-discipline and academics RULE. This is NOT a place where children with NPD's should be. However, that's just MY opinion. They aren't protected by the law and basically, you as a parent have to go along with whatever they decide--- which is usually nothing except more discipline, or they get kicked out. The public school system has so much more to offer. -Your son could enter the 8th grade as a normal 8th grader -Your son could get an IEP or 504 and be protected under the disability act and thus, the school has to accomodate his disorder (by reducing and making adjustments to the requirements) -- all within the 8th grade classroom -Your son could use the 'special ed' program which will offer tudors and MORE help, if needed. -If your son's OCD is severe, he could also go into a 'self-contained' environment which will offer even MORE accomodations and support. I'm not sure if 'self-contained' is available to an 8th grader, but it IS available in elementary school. None of these services are available thru' the private school system that I know of. The only 'fighting' I've done with the public school system is to FIGHT their recommendations that my son *needs more help.* In other words, I tend to be in DENIAL about him (LOL) and don't want to hear 'We feel he may need more assistance..." Public school is an all-you-can-eat buffet bar--- and the decisions can be tough. But, the level of COMPASSION towards kids who are having problems is wonderful. I actually REGRET that I never had the opportunity to attend public school in my elementary years because private school TAINTED my perceptions of the world. Most of the kids that attended were 1) extremely wealthy 'brats' 2) were a discipline problem or 3) their parents were racists and wanted to keep their child from interacting with minorities.... *sigh* I'm sure many kids were there for religious education, however, once I entered public school in the 7th grade, I realized just how sheltered I had been from a whole WORLD of people, ideas, and situations that would have BENEFITED my development!!! I feel as though private school stunted my personal growth in many ways..... One of my sisters developed an ANXIETY DISORDER in the 4th grade thanks to an abusive nun who enjoyed torturing little children.... Granted, times have changed, but I'm still distrustful of 'closed systems' and prefer that my child is exposed to a VARIETY of people and is protected under the law. For what it's worth, you can get more information about the 'self-contained' classroom by doing a search in our archives for those words. I posted my own personal dilema back in May or June about a big decision I was trying to make about my own son. The posts were wonderfully informative about all the options my son has (keeping him mainstreamed, or go into self-contained). I still haven't made my decision.... however I see that he NEEDS self-contained. This summer has been an eye-opener for me as to how much my son is mentally tortured everyday by OCD. However, I'm so torn due to my own 'self containment' as a child in an abusive *Private* School System.... is it any wonder I'm distrustful? I'm sure I have no reason to be, but I am, nonetheless.... proceeding with caution... LOL Naturally, I'm a little distrustful of children in ANYTHING that resembles the isolation (and subsequent cruelty) I endured in Private School. Just my two cents.... Joni Mom of (20), (18, ADHD+mild OCD) and (10, OCD) P.S. Welcome to the group! You may subscribe to the OCD-L by emailing listserv@... . In the body of your message write: subscribe OCD-L your name. You may subscribe to the Parents of Adults with OCD List at parentsofadultswithOCD-subscribe . You may subscribe to the OCD and Homeschooling List at ocdandhomeschooling-subscribe . You may change your subscription format or access the files, bookmarks, and archives for our list at . Our list advisors are Tamar Chansky, Ph.D., Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., and Dan Geller, M.D. Our list moderators are Birkhan, Kathy Hammes, Jule Monnens, Gail Pesses, Kathy , and Jackie Stout. Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at lharkins@... .

August 6, 2001

Hi and welcome,

My daughter entered private school for 7th grade last year. She had

previously been homeschooled. She was not diagnosed with ocd at the

time (nor is she now, though we have started seeing a therapist). I

believe she has BDD and social anxiety which can be hard to separate

from normal teen concerns, and so the reluctance of the therapist to

give a diagnosis yet. But clearly it is severe at times, because she

spends hours grooming during bad " spells " (which has developed into

trichotillomania with her eyebrows) and won't be seen outside the

house, or even her room at times. She also has panic attacks that

come on when she is too overwhelmed with school concerns. Testing,

esp math, is very hard for her. I was wary enrolling her there not

knowing quite how to explain the anxiety and not wanting to

stigmatize my daughter in case they were prejudiced that way (and I

was confused myself because it was undiagnosed at that time). But I

just met with her teachers (3 full time teachers-did not meet with

the PE or Spanish teacher) explained some of her behaviors, and told

them what they might expect (I actually expected/feared some sort of

major breakdown-but didn't express this). At first I was afraid

they'd blame me for preparing her poorly if she had trouble. But they

got to know and appreciate my daughter-she is talented in art, for

example, and very well read/knowledgeable about many things in an

almost adult way. They were understanding when she missed an entire

week of school associated with our move across town. They were

eventually lenient with late assignments, with her missing school

etc. She still got good grades as a result, because her effort and

knowledge was apparent, even if she was late due to

anxiety/perfectionism. They are into discipline and hard work but

certainly open to distinguishing between disobedience/laziness and

anxiety. They require the use of a planner, but often my daughter did

not get her assignments written in the planner because she would be

overwhelmed with the noise and activity at the end of class when the

teachers were giving homework, and fail to write it dowm properly or

at all, then she would be afraid to call a class mate for the

assignment. I explained this to the home room teacher and she tried

to have more quite in the class room at the end of class when she was

giving the homework and long term assignments. I also had to force my

daughter to call classmates. Overall my experience (it is a very

small parish school) has been better than I expected due in part to

the ready access I have to the school (I am there alot overseeing

students at lunch and recess and bring my other homeschooled kids

along),to the teachers, and to the very few administrators

(principle, and vice principle, and counselor who all also teach). I

find the smallness to be an advantage-much less bureacracy. I think

the teachers have the time to see kids as individuals (though the

classrooms are large 30+ students). Perhaps there is more structure

than in a large public school. Also they were not critical of

homeschooling as I feared, and it helps that the environment is

controlled to encourage respect, and to prevent teasing, rudeness,

bad language, overly sexualized dressing or language innuendo, drugs,

cliques etc. There are no locker rooms (no locker room banter-teasing

etc) no hanging out in bathrooms (so no place for smoking and drugs),

no smoking behind the school (it is on church grounds) no " hazing " of

new kids, no stealing, etc (all things that went on in my schools).

Although it is a Catholic school and they have daily prayers, weekly

mass and times for confession (which I think can be therapeutic as

well) I would not be afraid of scrupulosity necessarily becoming an

issue for ocders because ocd is as unique as the individual and if

scrupulosity becomes their issue it can just as well occur outside a

religious environment, as it does with moral scrupulosity. In my

daughter's case, I am sure the environment, unfortunately,

contributed in part to her BDD behaviors (b/c of the strong emphasis

on appearance among middle schoolers-I am glad they wear uniforms -

but shoes, hair and accessories become all important as a result).

But if she had remained home I can't say she would not have had the

same concerns, or that she would have developed other equally serious

concerns, for example at home her tendency was to avoid any

socializing and to isolate herself and to blame it on homeschooling.

Now I have to decide what to do for highschool because this school

ends at 8th grade. There is a parent run Catholic private school that

goes through highschool, it is quite a distance, but I am thinking of

enrolling all my kids and working at the school myself during school

hours, they would likely allow me to have my preschooler with me. I

think they feel called to be accomodating to some kid's special needs

out of religious charity, even though it might be hard to accomodate

if it was whole school full of such kids. I think private school can

be accomodating due to the size and less bureacracy, and parent

involvement, and also because of shared values-which creates a

connection rather than a parent vs teacher scenario. But, if they are

real tied up in standards, competition, grade point average etc, they

might not want students with difficulties. This is really not very

charitable or in keeping ith religious values IMO, so I think a truly

religious school would be charitable before they'd be " success at all

costs " oriented. I think a parent can work with teachers who share

their values in this way, and who put the students' well-being ahead

of the school's standards. Usually, they would not have the budget

for tutors, special ed classrooms, school nurses and psychologists,

or any special equipment (say for example a student who could more

easily do assignments on a keyboard)) so this would be something to

consider. I guess it is a matter of choosing what is best for the

individual child no matter what schooling you decide upon.

Grace

becuae cathcart@q...> wrote:

> I have just signed on to OCD and Parenting. My husband Greg

and I attended the OC Foundation Conference in Denver the weekend

before last. We also took our 14 year old, Grant. It was great

seeing him socialize with the other teens, especially since he has

had such a terrible time finding friends in our neighborhood. Santa

Fe is a rough town for school. It is predominantly a retiree haven

and unfortunately the schools suffer for it. Grant went to a

montessori school our first year here, which was a great social

experience, but not much else. They cancelled the middle school the

next year. We then switched him to public school for 8th grade but

by Dec. last year we finally pulled him out of what by then was the

second middle school of the year. We was getting abused by students,

neglected by teachers, and abandoned by administrators, all despite

the fact that he was under an IEP. It was terrible. If I had had

more time I'm sure I would have taken them to court.

> We tried to homeschool the rest of the year but admittedly

didn't get far. My husband travels and I am a full-time physician.

He also feels very lonely at home and wants to go back. We have

looked at private schools but they admittedly aren't very excited

about having to make the accommodations that will be necessary for

Grant. We also found it rather disheartening that not a single

parent we met at the conference has their child in private school

(everyone either fights the local school district, or homeschools).

> So it looks like we are back to public school again this year.

We are actually going to have Grant repeat the 8th grade, hoping that

the extra year of maturity will do him some good. I took a lot of

notes in the talk on " Getting your local school to listen " and have a

3 inch thick notebook of Grant's entire educational history. I hope

I can be a better advocate for him this year.

> Any words of advise, encouragement, warning!

>

August 6, 2001

Hi and welcome!

This is a great support group with lots of varying experiences,

opinions, OCD+ behaviors, medications, etc. I'm still new to OCD in

that my 12 y/o son (1 of 3) was diagnosed with it last fall, just

after starting 6th grade (all the behaviors really hit then!).

Sorry you're having school problems too! What kind of

accommodations does Grant need at school? I know that last year for

us there were 2 main teachers; one worked with us better than the

other one in some ways but I could see where some subjects are just

faster-paced than others. Hope this year in 7th grade goes better!!

My son has a 504 plan instead of an IEP. I'm going to have

to get a copy of it (lost it somewhere) to see what's actually

written in it! When we did it in 6th grade, a lot of it was verbal

talk/agreements between the teachers and myself and not actually

written into the plan. So I need to see about it for school in 7th

grade (starting here Aug 8). But needs things like: allowed

to turn in work late, allowed to bring home classwork, extra time on

tests if needed, an OK for ME to write his work at home when he's

unable to, teacher notes, etc., etc. Does Grant need anything like

this?

OCD has made him where he's unable to or can't write some days; can't

read (not great for the required reading program!) some days; there

were times he couldn't even look at his math book last year as he was

afraid he'd get " stuck " on something on the page and not be able to

get " unstuck " - anyway, it was a TOUGH year. A lot of nights we

could NOT finish it all. Grades went down a lot! Luckily he

does/did well on state tests so they can see he's capable. And he's

got a great memory for things said in class.

If you don't want to go through the court system, could you not call

the school's administrative office about noncompliance with the IEP?

Or the state office would be better!

Keep us posted on how everything goes!

P.S. We found out the kids' teachers today. One of them my older

son had in 7th. She was one I did NOT like but hopefully it'll be

better the 2nd time around. But I'm not sure if she's one that will

work with us well. Since I previously told the " school " to choose

's teachers that would work best with him, she'd BETTER!!