Supplements

[Guest guest]

Hi:

It seems that they emphasize detoxifying processes. Is that

correct? Can you tell us more about why you think this company has

the best supplements? ...your experience?

At 09:01 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:

>The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

>supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

>

>

>

>

>

>Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but

>under no circumstances should any information published here be

>considered a substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified

>physician. -the owner

>

[Guest guest]

When my daughter was on chemotherapy for her cancer when she was 11months old

the Dr. told me to give her some kind of a basic vitamin. I am friends with the

lady who formulated the whole series of vitamins you can read about on this web

site. I told her about the cancer and then started her on the basic plus.

While on these her blood counts never got to low she never threw up and did not

lose her hair at all. I too have been on the kela E for the endocrine system

for my hypothyroid and it helped me feel better and I lost 35 pounds too.

Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

It seems that they emphasize detoxifying processes. Is that

correct? Can you tell us more about why you think this company has

the best supplements? ...your experience?

At 09:01 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:

>The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

>supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

>

>

>

>

>

>Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but

>under no circumstances should any information published here be

>considered a substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified

>physician. -the owner

>

[Guest guest]

Hi:

Thanks for the info. I generally use stuff from

Life Extension ( http://www.lef.org ) and Vitamin

Research ( http://www.vrp.com/ ), because they

have high quality, are endorsed by a number of

physicians and they fund research and I also buy

standard stuff from Swanson,(

http://www.swansonvitamins.com ) because they're

so inexpensive. I'm going to give lifezone (

http://www.lifezone.com/supplements.html ) a try,

thanks to you. Thanks for the info, so far what

I've read on the site looks interesting though

their product range is very limited. I just

ordered their Multivitamin and the Kela E for a try.

At 05:02 PM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

> When my daughter was on chemotherapy for her

> cancer when she was 11months old the Dr. told

> me to give her some kind of a basic vitamin. I

> am friends with the lady who formulated the

> whole series of vitamins you can read about on

> this web site. I told her about the cancer and

> then started her on the basic plus. While on

> these her blood counts never got to low she

> never threw up and did not lose her hair at

> all. I too have been on the kela E for the

> endocrine system for my hypothyroid and it

> helped me feel better and I lost 35 pounds too.

>

> Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

>

>It seems that they emphasize detoxifying processes. Is that

>correct? Can you tell us more about why you think this company has

>the best supplements? ...your experience?

>

>

>

>At 09:01 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:

> >The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

> >supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but

> >under no circumstances should any information published here be

> >considered a substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified

> >physician. -the owner

> >

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your reply I hope it helps you as it has me and my family.

Please keep in touch and let me know how you are doing. Maybe we can both help

others with our expierinces we have gone through, Marilyn.

Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

Thanks for the info. I generally use stuff from

Life Extension ( http://www.lef.org ) and Vitamin

Research ( http://www.vrp.com/ ), because they

have high quality, are endorsed by a number of

physicians and they fund research and I also buy

standard stuff from Swanson,(

http://www.swansonvitamins.com ) because they're

so inexpensive. I'm going to give lifezone (

http://www.lifezone.com/supplements.html ) a try,

thanks to you. Thanks for the info, so far what

I've read on the site looks interesting though

their product range is very limited. I just

ordered their Multivitamin and the Kela E for a try.

At 05:02 PM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

> When my daughter was on chemotherapy for her

> cancer when she was 11months old the Dr. told

> me to give her some kind of a basic vitamin. I

> am friends with the lady who formulated the

> whole series of vitamins you can read about on

> this web site. I told her about the cancer and

> then started her on the basic plus. While on

> these her blood counts never got to low she

> never threw up and did not lose her hair at

> all. I too have been on the kela E for the

> endocrine system for my hypothyroid and it

> helped me feel better and I lost 35 pounds too.

>

> Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

>

>It seems that they emphasize detoxifying processes. Is that

>correct? Can you tell us more about why you think this company has

>the best supplements? ...your experience?

>

>

>

>At 09:01 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:

> >The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

> >supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but

> >under no circumstances should any information published here be

> >considered a substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified

> >physician. -the owner

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Marilyn:

I called Lifezone, the company you mentioned and

they are very kind and generous with their

time. I talked with them about some of the

problems I have, which are not very severe

compared to yours but they were very excellent at

going over the various syndromes that can create

the one problem I discussed. I told them about

you recommending them to me as well, not by name

of course. I wound up ordering their immune

formula as well and all three supplements ship

today. I look forward to using their

supplements. Also to note for those who may want

to start using their supplements: they give a 50%

discount if you buy a box of 12 bottles of any

one supplement. I'm impressed with that as their

prices are not very high to begin with.

My problem that I spoke of with them is that I

have low free testosterone. It gives low libido,

proneness to injury of tendons, depression,

fatigue and other symptoms. My total

testosterone is not low. My doctor has

prescribed testosterone for me, but it only

raises my free testosterone for a few days and then it drops back down again.

She gave me a complete analysis of all the

syndromes including hormones and diet that could

be involved. She explained that their

supplements work differently and absorb better

than almost all others. They have over a hundred

patents regarding the way their supplements are

formulated and many clinical trials to show their

efficacy - impressive. She thought my problem

may be one of toxicity with heavy metals and that

is why I ordered the immune formula. It is

better than chelation therapy with EDTA,

according to her, at removing heavy metals. I

eat tons of fish and that is one of the pitfalls of fish eating - heavy metals.

She thought that balancing my minerals (with the

Basic formula that absorbs so well), since

minerals are the basis for all hormones, combined

with the hormone balancing formula, Kela E, for

obvious reasons would of course also help. I was

really impressed with her knowledge. I'm pretty

knowledgeable myself and everything she said was

perfectly in line with my understanding plus I

learned a lot from the conversation as well.

I'm excited to try these supplements. I'll let you know the outcome.

At 10:41 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:

>Thank you for your reply I hope it helps

>you as it has me and my family. Please keep in

>touch and let me know how you are doing. Maybe

>we can both help others with our expierinces we have gone through, Marilyn.

>

> Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

>

>Thanks for the info. I generally use stuff from

>Life Extension ( http://www.lef.org ) and Vitamin

>Research ( http://www.vrp.com/ ), because they

>have high quality, are endorsed by a number of

>physicians and they fund research and I also buy

>standard stuff from Swanson,(

>http://www.swansonvitamins.com ) because they're

>so inexpensive. I'm going to give lifezone (

>http://www.lifezone.com/supplements.html ) a try,

>thanks to you. Thanks for the info, so far what

>I've read on the site looks interesting though

>their product range is very limited. I just

>ordered their Multivitamin and the Kela E for a try.

>

>

>

>At 05:02 PM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

> > When my daughter was on chemotherapy for her

> > cancer when she was 11months old the Dr. told

> > me to give her some kind of a basic vitamin. I

> > am friends with the lady who formulated the

> > whole series of vitamins you can read about on

> > this web site. I told her about the cancer and

> > then started her on the basic plus. While on

> > these her blood counts never got to low she

> > never threw up and did not lose her hair at

> > all. I too have been on the kela E for the

> > endocrine system for my hypothyroid and it

> > helped me feel better and I lost 35 pounds too.

> >

> > Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

> >

> >It seems that they emphasize detoxifying processes. Is that

> >correct? Can you tell us more about why you think this company has

> >the best supplements? ...your experience?

> >

> >

> >

> >At 09:01 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:

> > >The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

> > >supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but

> > >under no circumstances should any information published here be

> > >considered a substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified

> > >physician. -the owner

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hmm, those prices look very expensive and provided only small quantities

per dose e.g. the Basic Plus formula has only 60mg Vitamin C per dose,

this is inadequate and actually tiny, given that Humans probably need

between 5g to 10g of Vitamin C per day, for optimum health, assuming the

same amount per body weight as animals which make their own vitamin C.

As an example the " Quest Super Once A Day Timed Release " product (link

below) provides a lot more ingredients, in larger amounts and includes

mostly Chelated Minerals, all at a fraction of the cost of the LifeZone

Basic Plus formula, and can also be bought cheaply in my local health

food shop!

http://www.questvitamins.co.uk/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=2960

The above is my base supplement, however even it's adequate 250mg

Vitamin C is too low for me, so I add 4 to 5g Ester C gel caps and other

antioxidants, spread out during the day, together with a good low-carb

omnivore diet, including Wild Salmon, plenty of unfiltered Extra Virgin

Olive Oil and some organic vegetables.

jgnmemom wrote:

> The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

> supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

>

>

>

>

>

> Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but under no

circumstances should any information published here be considered a substitute

for personal medical advice from a qualified physician. -the owner

>

[Guest guest]

nospam.rwp@... wrote:

> Hmm, those prices look very expensive and provided only small quantities

> per dose e.g. the Basic Plus formula has only 60mg Vitamin C per dose,

> this is inadequate and actually tiny, given that Humans probably need

> between 5g to 10g of Vitamin C per day, for optimum health, assuming the

> same amount per body weight as animals which make their own vitamin C.

>

> As an example the " Quest Super Once A Day Timed Release " product (link

> below) provides a lot more ingredients, in larger amounts and includes

> mostly Chelated Minerals, all at a fraction of the cost of the LifeZone

> Basic Plus formula, and can also be bought cheaply in my local health

> food shop!

> http://www.questvitamins.co.uk/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=2960

>

>

> The above is my base supplement, however even it's adequate 250mg

>

Correction 150mg Vitamin C, which is a bit low (damned EU/CODEX), so

extra Vitamin C is essential.

> Vitamin C is too low for me, so I add 4 to 5g Ester C gel caps and other

> antioxidants, spread out during the day, together with a good low-carb

> omnivore diet, including Wild Salmon, plenty of unfiltered Extra Virgin

> Olive Oil and some organic vegetables.

>

>

>

> jgnmemom wrote:

>

>> The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

>> supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

>>

[Guest guest]

That is so great I am glad you called her she is a very good friend of mine and

has helped me countless times. She is in the business to help people and she

truly cares and wants to help others feel better. I really hope through your

posts more people in this group can find answers to some of thier health

problems. I thank you for your reply, keep in touch Marilyn.

Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi Marilyn:

I called Lifezone, the company you mentioned and

they are very kind and generous with their

time. I talked with them about some of the

problems I have, which are not very severe

compared to yours but they were very excellent at

going over the various syndromes that can create

the one problem I discussed. I told them about

you recommending them to me as well, not by name

of course. I wound up ordering their immune

formula as well and all three supplements ship

today. I look forward to using their

supplements. Also to note for those who may want

to start using their supplements: they give a 50%

discount if you buy a box of 12 bottles of any

one supplement. I'm impressed with that as their

prices are not very high to begin with.

My problem that I spoke of with them is that I

have low free testosterone. It gives low libido,

proneness to injury of tendons, depression,

fatigue and other symptoms. My total

testosterone is not low. My doctor has

prescribed testosterone for me, but it only

raises my free testosterone for a few days and then it drops back down again.

She gave me a complete analysis of all the

syndromes including hormones and diet that could

be involved. She explained that their

supplements work differently and absorb better

than almost all others. They have over a hundred

patents regarding the way their supplements are

formulated and many clinical trials to show their

efficacy - impressive. She thought my problem

may be one of toxicity with heavy metals and that

is why I ordered the immune formula. It is

better than chelation therapy with EDTA,

according to her, at removing heavy metals. I

eat tons of fish and that is one of the pitfalls of fish eating - heavy metals.

She thought that balancing my minerals (with the

Basic formula that absorbs so well), since

minerals are the basis for all hormones, combined

with the hormone balancing formula, Kela E, for

obvious reasons would of course also help. I was

really impressed with her knowledge. I'm pretty

knowledgeable myself and everything she said was

perfectly in line with my understanding plus I

learned a lot from the conversation as well.

I'm excited to try these supplements. I'll let you know the outcome.

At 10:41 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:

>Thank you for your reply I hope it helps

>you as it has me and my family. Please keep in

>touch and let me know how you are doing. Maybe

>we can both help others with our expierinces we have gone through, Marilyn.

>

> Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

>

>Thanks for the info. I generally use stuff from

>Life Extension ( http://www.lef.org ) and Vitamin

>Research ( http://www.vrp.com/ ), because they

>have high quality, are endorsed by a number of

>physicians and they fund research and I also buy

>standard stuff from Swanson,(

>http://www.swansonvitamins.com ) because they're

>so inexpensive. I'm going to give lifezone (

>http://www.lifezone.com/supplements.html ) a try,

>thanks to you. Thanks for the info, so far what

>I've read on the site looks interesting though

>their product range is very limited. I just

>ordered their Multivitamin and the Kela E for a try.

>

>

>

>At 05:02 PM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

> > When my daughter was on chemotherapy for her

> > cancer when she was 11months old the Dr. told

> > me to give her some kind of a basic vitamin. I

> > am friends with the lady who formulated the

> > whole series of vitamins you can read about on

> > this web site. I told her about the cancer and

> > then started her on the basic plus. While on

> > these her blood counts never got to low she

> > never threw up and did not lose her hair at

> > all. I too have been on the kela E for the

> > endocrine system for my hypothyroid and it

> > helped me feel better and I lost 35 pounds too.

> >

> > Brown <scotflyr@...> wrote: Hi:

> >

> >It seems that they emphasize detoxifying processes. Is that

> >correct? Can you tell us more about why you think this company has

> >the best supplements? ...your experience?

> >

> >

> >

> >At 09:01 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:

> > >The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

> > >supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but

> > >under no circumstances should any information published here be

> > >considered a substitute for personal medical advice from a qualified

> > >physician. -the owner

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi:

You are assuming that the purpose of this supplement is to supply all

of your vitamin needs. Even though the description implies

that, after speaking with the company, I believe its value is in

it's unique delivery system with a high rate of absorption for

minerals and with the right vitamins for that mineral and

micro-nutrient absorption to work well. It is patented for that.

Vitamin C, even when taken in chelated forms, can interfere with some

mineral's absorption. I take chelated Ester C and Emergen-C, but not

with the rest of my vitamins, about 6 gm per day or more. I think

that research has shown clearly that people need a lot more than 60mg

of C. The fact that most other mammals generate the human equivalent

of 3-10 gm per day in their livers, confirms this, I believe..

At 03:25 PM 4/25/2006, you wrote:

>Hmm, those prices look very expensive and provided only small quantities

>per dose e.g. the Basic Plus formula has only 60mg Vitamin C per dose,

>this is inadequate and actually tiny, given that Humans probably need

>between 5g to 10g of Vitamin C per day, for optimum health, assuming the

>same amount per body weight as animals which make their own vitamin C.

>

>As an example the " Quest Super Once A Day Timed Release " product (link

>below) provides a lot more ingredients, in larger amounts and includes

>mostly Chelated Minerals, all at a fraction of the cost of the LifeZone

>Basic Plus formula, and can also be bought cheaply in my local health

>food shop!

>http://www.questvitamins.co.uk/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=2960

>

>The above is my base supplement, however even it's adequate 250mg

>Vitamin C is too low for me, so I add 4 to 5g Ester C gel caps and other

>antioxidants, spread out during the day, together with a good low-carb

>omnivore diet, including Wild Salmon, plenty of unfiltered Extra Virgin

>Olive Oil and some organic vegetables.

>

>

>

>jgnmemom wrote:

> > The best supplements I have ever tried, look through and read about the

> > supplements in this web site- www.lifezone.com.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Note: This forum is for discussion of health related subjects but

> under no circumstances should any information published here be

> considered a substitute for personal medical advice from a

> qualified physician. -the owner

> >

[Guest guest]

Supplements

Hi Adrienne,

I had never heard of Antronex. I am vaguely familiar with Propax and

Standard Process products. Are these available without consulting a

doctor or getting a prescription? Where do you buy them?

I would be very grateful if you would give me a more complete list of

some of the other supplements that have helped you.

You can also email me at vickie_taylor@....

Thanks so very much,

Vickie

--

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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[Guest guest]

On Apr 30, 2006, at 10:13 PM, Adrienne wrote:

> I should say, too, that finally getting something like adequate

> caregiving

> for 14 mos was the point at which my situation bottomed and began

> to turn

> upward. not being so alone- and thus depressed and anxious, as well

> as the

> actual services I received, such as having better cooked food

> available- all

> that helped me get where I am.

I think this is a really interesting point, and am glad Adrienne

brought it up.

My illness bottomed out at a point where I was doing a whole lot of

caregiving for others (including a toddler and a baby), but had no

one really taking care of me (a husband who was emotionally,

economically, and usually physically absent).

My recovery really started four years later, when I was finally able

to stop work, rely on my new husband -- and thus have the space and

time to stop denying my illness and start figuring out what to do

about it.

It didn't really gain speed for another few years after that; but the

ability to just STOP my life, hand the details over to a caretaker,

drop the guilt (which was constant) over the things that weren't

being done, and just be a sick person -- well, that was huge.

Fighting all that just prolonged my illness, and made it much worse

in the long run. Being able to withdraw from the battle, own my

situation, and deal with it realistically and appropriately was the

thing that, in time, allowed me to begin movement toward health.

It's the little stuff -- someone doing the cooking and shopping (good

food matters!) and cleaning (don't know about the rest of you, but

mess is a huge energy suck for me) and kid-schlepping (the worst task

by far, because I'd have to leave the house and drive). And it's the

big stuff, like not having to worry about the bills and insurance.

When all that's handled, the little bits of found energy get to be

put to more productive use, like reading books and doing Internet

research and seeing doctors.

It would be interesting to know how many of us who finally found

ourselves at a significant recovery point got there because we had

good support. It's such a rare gift among PWCs that it's probably

surprising we don't talk about it much.

Sara

[Guest guest]

I believe we do talk about it. We talked about it as a possible

trigger in 's death. If you think your parents are going to throw

you out into the snowy winter and you have no place to go, your stress

hormones might skyrocket.

Others here have often talked about completely unsupportive families,

or cruel families, we've had multiple discussions about that and how

stressful it was.

And still others have discussed the difficulty of finding good

doctors, having to travel to doctors, or not being able to get tests

(that is lack of support for instance in NY State) that would help

them on their path to wellness. As Andy Cutler noted yesterday, its

fairly satanic that we can't even pay for the tests we want in NY State...

All that adds up to lack of support in various ways, stressing each of

us. Still, I think a chronic infection is a chronic infection, and you

can't get better until you somehow address the infection and its

downstream cascade. So the support I would most like is from good

scientists, not looking into genomics, but into infection. So that's

where I personally feel most frustrated.

> It would be interesting to know how many of us who finally found

> ourselves at a significant recovery point got there because we had

> good support. It's such a rare gift among PWCs that it's probably

> surprising we don't talk about it much.

>

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Adrienne,

Weren't you taking some stuff for neurotransmitters after you had some kind of

testing for them? Some nautral blend of stuff you said was doing a lot for you.

I dont' see that mentioned here on the list of what you take now?

I'm really happy that you've gotten the help you need and are feeling better

about it all, I do understand how hard it is when we have to worry about 'what

will become of us?' :-(

Personally I can't take St s Wort as it causes depression. I had read about

it in my herb books long before it came out on the market as such a popular item

and it warned about that, that in some cases it will actually increase

depression. So years later when everybody was taking it, I decided to try and it

did cause horrible depression in me, I was walking around crying all the time

which is something I dont' do unless there is a death or good reason. DHEA does

the exact same thing to me for some reason. I'm actually surprised that this

warning is never mentioned tho, even by alternative health care people, which

kind of shows me they do whats popular and they don't do their own research.

Anyway, I had been wondering how you were doing since we hadn't heard from you

in some time and sure happy to hear that things are going better for you!

Marcia

Re: Supplements

propax (it includes a dose of fish oil)definitely available w.out doc. Can't

recall about Standard Process. Google it.

As for the rest of the stuff I use:

Every couple of weeks, a little sublingual spray of DHEA. Used to use more.

(Nature's Plus. I have had the same bottle for years, now. Have no idea if

it is still for sale.)

Did I mention St. 's Wort for depression? Wonderful.

Also use caffeine medicinally- and not daily, either. (Green tea, usually.)

Two major ones, were my mainstay for most of the course of this. Now take

them along w. the Neuroscience stuff; DLPA, and l-tryptophan.

That's about it.

I should say, too, that finally getting something like adequate caregiving

for 14 mos was the point at which my situation bottomed and began to turn

upward. not being so alone- and thus depressed and anxious, as well as the

actual services I received, such as having better cooked food available- all

that helped me get where I am.

Best,

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

> We've talked about the lack of support. I'm wondering if it turns the

> other way, too: if getting good support can make a demonstrable

> difference in outcome.

Well that's true of anything, any endeavor, in life, isn't it? Why

wouldn't it be true of health, too. If you have more time to pursue

answers, and the $ to pay for relatively expensive treatments, you are

likelier not to fall between the cracks. In fact, how could it not be

true?

>

> But aren't you more likely to get that infection addressed if you've

> got someone making sure you get regular, high-quality meals, taking

> you to the doctor, staying on you to take your meds (there were, and

> sometimes still are, days that don't start at all unless someone

> brings breakfast, drugs, and the water to take them directly to my

> bedside), dealing with the world so you can increase rest and reduce

> stress, and bringing in some income to pay for the doctors and meds?

> There were years of my life that I had to do all of this for myself

> (while taking care of two small kids) -- which meant that, much too

> often, it didn't happen at all.

>

> It makes sense on a practical level that all the stuff required for

> good healing is more likely to happen if you can rely on someone

> besides yourself to make sure it does. And a sense that somebody

> cares about you is, perhaps, excellent medicine all on its own.

>

> Sara

This doesn't speak to what I was addressing. If we knew what these

infections were, if we were more medically literate, and had better

ways to tackle them, than a combination of happenstance, luck, and

doctors willing to risk their license, many people, whether stressed

or not, divorced or happily married, with inheritances or not, with

good families or bad, would be able to do recover and do fine.

Underlying good health is a key to being able to overcome difficult or

tragic times in life. Babesia is akin to malaria; lyme to syphilis;

you can have all the support in the world and if you don't treat it

properly you aren't going to get better. Wells on her ya-ya

page talks about the unwavering love of her husband, and she's

certainly a mega-millionaire from her bestselling book which sold

something like 8 million copies. And yet until lyme and babesia were

diagnosed she was getting sicker and sicker, until she was in a

wheelchair. You can bounce back from a bad spouse or bad family or

lost job or almost anything if you have the physical resilience. In

turn, without good health, obviously every stressor becomes magnified.

But I do NOT think that having someone to help in most cases turns the

infection around. I just think that's dangerously close to the

psychologizing we are all wary of. Stress is a known factor in

exacerbating illness, but to me the tragedy is all these sick people

with infections that go misdiagnosed, undiagnosed, undertreated, etc.

Even now I do not know how many infections I got from two ticks. Maybe

I have more than 2 lymes and one babesia. I may have bartonella,

filiariasis, who knows what else. I saw on another list there will be

a presentation on May 12 on lyme by specialists, and one presentation

will be on novel tickborne pathogens in southern connecticut.

[Guest guest]

I did most of the hardest stuff all by my little ole self and I did it

well. I advocated for myself in a very creative way. II did not have

enough $ or help to manage it but I did. I took pride in doing that

and in my strength in the battle. There is a book: Adrift, 76 Days

Lost at Sea by Callahan, that speaks to this exactly.

I am not frightened by what you said. I just don't think its the main

issue. The things that helped me the most were the hyperbaric chamber

I managed to get, the IV's and IVIG I get, and the allies I found in

who can help me research and even be willing to make novel molecules

that might help me and then help others. I could order in food from

any diner in the neighborhood, but I could not order in oxygen pushed

into my tissues to slow down replication of spirochetes or order in

the research that helped me understand lyme disease, or order in folks

like Dr. Schaller or Enlander or a or Rich on this list, or order

in a few colleagues who understood the molecular biology of lyme much

better than I did.

As for fundamental rights, that could lead to a whole philosophical

discussion about life itself, and the rights of for instance, human

beings in Darfur to live. This world does not distribute fundamental

rights, or luck for that matter, equally to anyone. I'm not even sure

how one could demand it--demand to be loved well? Where is the care

coming from?

But research monies could be funneled differently. I don't want to be

an activist, so I'll just try to join the pioneers--I like what the

DAN! community is doing, and its link to CFS< and indirectly, to lyme,

for instance. THAT is what I consider real help, most efficiently, and

for the most folks.

>

> > You can bounce back from a bad spouse or bad family or

> > lost job or almost anything if you have the physical resilience. In

> > turn, without good health, obviously every stressor becomes magnified.

> > But I do NOT think that having someone to help in most cases turns the

> > infection around. I just think that's dangerously close to the

> > psychologizing we are all wary of. Stress is a known factor in

> > exacerbating illness, but to me the tragedy is all these sick people

> > with infections that go misdiagnosed, undiagnosed, undertreated, etc.

>

> I never said that it would " turn an infection around. "

>

> Sheesh. You people are sooooo frightened of what you might hear that

> you hear it when it's not even been said. That's not brain fog:

> that's just willful misunderstanding.

>

> What I said was: My healing started when I no longer had to deal with

> my disease on my own. I'm not denying that there are legitimate

> physical causes (you'd think after 28 goddamn years, I'd know better

> -- cut me a fucking break, will you?). I'm not saying that all of us

> will automatically get better if Mummy just does her job and gets

> over here with the chicken soup pronto.

>

> What I am saying is that the odds of finding, living with, and

> getting appropriate treatment for what DOES ail you are probably

> better if you've got someone looking out for you, especially on bad

> days. And I'm saying that, in my experience, this was definitely the

> case.

>

> If you honestly think you'll get better faster by earning, feeding,

> shopping, dosing, and doctoring yourself from your bed with no help

> whatsoever, you go right on ahead. No more visitors for you, then,

> and all the best to you.

>

> I'm just saying that, in my case, having help tending to that stuff

> made a radical shift in my ability to heal over the long term. And I

> suspect that it might have helped others, too. Beyond that (and,

> oooo, you can REALLY fry me for this one!!!) I think people with this

> disease have a fundamental RIGHT to that kind of care -- one that we

> might legitimately claim, if y'all could let go of your reactive fear

> of the " psychologizers " long enough to take a clear look at the

> actual conditions under which some of us have gotten well.

>

> I think the biggest damage those people have done to this community

> is to drive us into a reactive mode where large topics of possible

> importance are driven completely off the table, lest anyone for a

> moment open a crack that could let The Boogeymen in the door.

>

> Accusations like the ones above are just doing their job for them,

> because they are still giving them the power to define the parameters

> of our disease and its treatment. Science -- and our best hopes --

> both say that kind of intellectual avoidance is an erroneous,

> dangerous, and unhelpful attitude that will do us far more harm in

> the long run than the psych guys on their own ever could.

>

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Well I personally appreciate your post and thanx for writing it.

>

> > You can bounce back from a bad spouse or bad family or

> > lost job or almost anything if you have the physical resilience. In

> > turn, without good health, obviously every stressor becomes

magnified.

> > But I do NOT think that having someone to help in most cases

turns the

> > infection around. I just think that's dangerously close to the

> > psychologizing we are all wary of. Stress is a known factor in

> > exacerbating illness, but to me the tragedy is all these sick people

> > with infections that go misdiagnosed, undiagnosed, undertreated,

etc.

>

> I never said that it would " turn an infection around. "

>

> Sheesh. You people are sooooo frightened of what you might hear that

> you hear it when it's not even been said. That's not brain fog:

> that's just willful misunderstanding.

>

> What I said was: My healing started when I no longer had to deal

with

> my disease on my own. I'm not denying that there are legitimate

> physical causes (you'd think after 28 goddamn years, I'd know better

> -- cut me a fucking break, will you?). I'm not saying that all of us

> will automatically get better if Mummy just does her job and gets

> over here with the chicken soup pronto.

>

> What I am saying is that the odds of finding, living with, and

> getting appropriate treatment for what DOES ail you are probably

> better if you've got someone looking out for you, especially on bad

> days. And I'm saying that, in my experience, this was definitely the

> case.

>

> If you honestly think you'll get better faster by earning, feeding,

> shopping, dosing, and doctoring yourself from your bed with no help

> whatsoever, you go right on ahead. No more visitors for you, then,

> and all the best to you.

>

> I'm just saying that, in my case, having help tending to that stuff

> made a radical shift in my ability to heal over the long term. And I

> suspect that it might have helped others, too. Beyond that (and,

> oooo, you can REALLY fry me for this one!!!) I think people with

this

> disease have a fundamental RIGHT to that kind of care -- one that we

> might legitimately claim, if y'all could let go of your reactive

fear

> of the " psychologizers " long enough to take a clear look at the

> actual conditions under which some of us have gotten well.

>

> I think the biggest damage those people have done to this community

> is to drive us into a reactive mode where large topics of possible

> importance are driven completely off the table, lest anyone for a

> moment open a crack that could let The Boogeymen in the door.

>

> Accusations like the ones above are just doing their job for them,

> because they are still giving them the power to define the

parameters

> of our disease and its treatment. Science -- and our best hopes --

> both say that kind of intellectual avoidance is an erroneous,

> dangerous, and unhelpful attitude that will do us far more harm in

> the long run than the psych guys on their own ever could.

>

> Sara

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

From what I understand from having talked to you once, and from your

posts, you have sufficient $ and time, so why don't you put some of

that into seed money for a foundation to that can then raise further

funding to study your question and do it yourself?

And if you think I'm tongue in cheek, I'm not. I spent months

attempting to get a substance imported from Asia and finally

succeeeded, in exchange for online tutoring in English for the

scientist who had to travel inland to get me what I wanted. I now have

it in my possession and have someone here who will formulate it in the

way I want so that it does not have to be used intravenously.

I don't talk about half the stuff I'm doing. To me, infection is the

cause; genes work in concert, and a panoply of 'vulnerable' genes can

be upregulated or downregulated and I tend to agree more with Andy

Cutler's recent posts than the idea that genomics will point us to

unique vulnerabilities that we can somehow manipulate so that we are

invulnerable to the variety of infections we have. It seems more

likely that far sooner we coudl tackle the infections, than could

arrive at successful gene manipulation where multiple genes with

multiple primary functions are involved.

>

> > As for fundamental rights, that could lead to a whole philosophical

> > discussion about life itself, and the rights of for instance, human

> > beings in Darfur to live. This world does not distribute fundamental

> > rights, or luck for that matter, equally to anyone.

>

> Actually, most of the world (including the US) recognizes a

> fundamental right to health care. The UN Charter of Rights includes

> this as one of the basic human rights. The Charter was written by

> Eleanor Roosevelt; the US was its first signatory. Every First World

> nation, and most of World 2 as well, have signed it.

>

> Yes, it's observed mostly in the breach in the US; but most of the

> rest of the industrialized world does take this right seriously

> enough to include it in their national constitutions -- and back it

> up by granting free health care to all their citizens. No, none of

> them are sending Meals on Wheels over to the houses of ME patients

> yet -- but that could happen if it turned out that might actually help.

>

> > I'm not even sure

> > how one could demand it--demand to be loved well? Where is the care

> > coming from?

>

> Insurance companies, doctors, and governments do recognize that many

> kinds of illness and disability require support; and will grant

> benefits to help defray the costs associated with getting it. That's

> the kind of support I'm talking about -- a caregiver who will come

> in, clean up the house, do some errands and laundry and shopping, and

> see to it that you get a bath and a decent meal once in a while.

>

> Americans are a bit fuzzy on this idea, because the system that is

> supposed to support them generally has strong financial incentives to

> leave them high and dry. But, even so, there ARE illnesses that are

> recognized as meriting this.

>

> If it can be proven that people who are getting even a basic level of

> help with their everyday tasks have a higher rate of recovery,

> recover faster, or recover to a higher level, then we might have

> grounds to persuade/demand insurers and governments (whoever's paying

> for our care -- I know, I know) to include this in our care package.

> In fact, if it's definitively shown to improve outcomes, they'll have

> a strong financial incentive to do so.

>

> But proving this idea takes scientific studies. Which require a

> working hypothesis. Which usually starts with anecdotal data

> supporting someone's hunch.

>

> I have a hunch. I'm looking for data. It's a long way to the rest of

> it; but I don't think I deserved being accused of consorting with

> " psychologizers " for merely asking the question.

>

> Again, your ability to leap to unwarranted conclusions and read

> things into my words that are not said is simply astonishing.

>

> > But research monies could be funneled differently. I don't want to be

> > an activist, so I'll just try to join the pioneers--I like what the

> > DAN! community is doing, and its link to CFS< and indirectly, to lyme,

> > for instance. THAT is what I consider real help, most efficiently, and

> > for the most folks.

>

> Like I've said here before: the focus on a cure is wonderful -- but

> in the meantime, we're all just trying to get through one day at a

> time. And it may turn out that making those days a little easier in

> the short run will support our healing in the long run. There's

> already quite a bit of science on ME that suggests this is probably so.

>

> But we'll never know if we don't ask the question. Evidently,

> though, there are some areas of inquiry that are simply out of bounds

> for this community, some information that nobody seems to want to

> even LOOK at. Like I said: fear of the boogeymen is doing such a

> good job of keeping us in our narrow little world that the boogeymen

> don't even have to show up any more.

>

> I find that supertitious attitude extremely disturbing, especially

> coming from someone who appeared to have some pretty serious

> scientific chops.

>

> Sara

>

[Guest guest]

Rod, one thing to remember, is that the best vitamins in the world

won't work if the patient refuses to be regular with them. I used to

be a big fan of metagenics, they are excellent, I got hooked up with

them becuase they gave alot of seminars when I was a student in the

early/mid 90s. But in last couple of years I have actually

ramped-down my approach with vitamins and don't use vites for targeted

therapy but rather just core supplementation ...I have found that a

pre-packaged type of product that contains 4-6 vitamins/items results

in greater compliance than use of multiple bottles that run out at

different intervals. We use the Nutriscan/Healthcoach, primarily their

'off the shelf' products (see healthcoach.com)and we also have

patients who use their cutomized program too. The customized thing is

a bit time consuming but if you want to step it up, this service

offers a more customized, targeted approach healthcoach.com or go

to my website and check it out.

with an auto-ship component.

>

> Hi All:

>

> I am looking for a line of good basic nutritional supplements to

sell. I'm not interested in MLM or Versendaal-type analysis. What do

you all use? Any private label thoughts?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Rod , DC

> Tillamook, OR

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Steph! Appreciate the hot tip, I know I am still trying to build my immune system back up! Love and Hugs, Sheena Ruggio <thestephanier@...> wrote: Hi Sheena and everyone. Lessman st HSN sells as pure and

balanced vit E and Fish oil products( no mercury and metals) as you can get along with other formulas. I would not buy anyone elses. Take a look. Peace and love to everyone. oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase.

[Guest guest]

Is it pretty much standard now that most of us are recommending two complete multivitamins daily - so the goal is 200% RDA for supplementation? Is this long term or just the first few months? Does anyone know if they can be taken together? I feel like with the calcium, MVI, separating doses, etc.. I don't see how they can do it. Our surgeons also recommend B50 complex - so I am wondering if just one complete MVI that meets 100% RDA with the B50 would suffice. Perhaps I'll get some good answers when I get that book on Micronutrition and post WLS patient!

Theresa

Re: [bariatricNutrition Dietitians] pre-op weight loss programs

We do 12 weeks of pre-op programs including Psych, Nutrition, Exercise, etc.

We just did a study to show patients who attended >6 classes lost more weight 3 and 6 months post-op than patients who attended <6 classes.

We don't use any supplements except recommend Optifast, Slimfast Optima, Or Carnation Instant breakfast (No sugar added). I feel this really helps the patients succeed before and after surgery.

Hope this helps! Nikolakopoulos <linlsn (DOT) com> wrote:

Hello All,Our Center is considering implementing a structured weight loss program for our pre-op patients (probably for the 2 weeks directly before their scheduled surgery date).I know some programs already have this in place and I'm wondering what kind of results you've seen - both positive and negative- since including this in your centers.I met some of you at the Bariatric Conference in Pennsylvania this past September, and you 'inspired' me to consider this for our Center. I've been in this position for the past 7+ years and our staff hasn't felt a need for this type of program thus far. However, they are now considering it and would like me to research and recommend certain programs.Some questions I have include:Are you required to sell the products at your facility?How long do you have the patients on the 'program'?Which products do you recommend?Any

input would be appreciated.Thanks -

McCarthy, M.S., R.D., L.D.N.Registered Dietitian

Bariatric Surgery CenterMercy Hospital2525 S Michigan Ave, Chicago, IL

office: 312-567-8793

cell: 773-307-3160

mccarthy112781

Quote of the week: "Knowing others is intelligence. Knowing yourself is true wisdom"

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[Guest guest]

I prefer the taste of Boost rather than Ensure.

Vicki

**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

[Guest guest]

" Thick-It " is a thickening agent you can add to food

and drinks to make them easier to swallow. If her

throat muscles are getting weak, she may actually have

trouble swallowing thin foods and liquids. It does not

change the taste of foods and liquids and it does not

lead to dehydration. I had a lot of trouble swallowing

for awhile, and it helped a lot. I used it especially

in juices and soups. The only things it didn't taste

good in were milk and water, but that's my opinion. I

have found it in places like Wal-Mart, but you usually

have to check with the pharmacy, and sometimes they

have to order it.

In addition to Ensure, there is something called

Scandishake. I have heard it tastes better than

Ensure, although I personally don't mind the taste of

Ensure.

Dina

--- Doug <doug696@...> wrote:

> Hey could you ladies tell me what you drink to gain

> weight and has good nutritional value? My Mother

> developed a cough and choking problem and the

> doctors can't seem to find out the cause. One doctor

> thinks the muscles in her throat might be weakening

> (sound familiar?) she's 77. Anyway she's having

> trouble eating and is withering away before our

> eyes. I bought her some Ensure to try and get some

> calories into her, but she didn't care for the

> taste. I remember you guys saying there were better

> products than Ensure. I'd appreciate some suggestion

> of things that are readily available in the local

> drug or grocery store. Thanks alot, Doug

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I drink both Boost and Ensure, switching once in a while. One thing to know

about Boost

is that it's much more concentrated than Ensure, especially Boost Plus, so it's

important to

drink water when taking Boost. I struggle with gaining calories too and the

Scandi shake

is a powder that can be mixed with whole milk or some other liquid. I take this

too.

Here's the website for ScandiShake if you're interested in finding out more

about it:

http://www.axcan.com/scandishake_us.php?lang=1

Alice

>

> I prefer the taste of Boost rather than Ensure.

>

> Vicki

>

>

>

> **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

> (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone it helped alot, Doug

[Guest guest]

, I took Revoxil, i also used ivermectin with out much results. revoxil can

be bought at healthwalk.com. Remember that internals are only as good as your

environment and skin. It worked very well for me. Please note that it was not

the only thing i was using, but it was very instrumental in ridding us of the

mites.

Holly

>

> Hi again friends, Bessie said in a recent post it was important to

> treat mites in environment and on the body, and also internally. Bessie

> - and anyone else who can advise - what would be the most important

> thing to take? I've seen lists which are frighteningly long and look

> expensive. What I want to know is what would be the most basic and most

> important thing and hopefully not cost too much? I can't afford much.

> (Also if you are taking quite a lot of supplements, how do you know

> which are " working " ?)

>