Intro

[Guest guest]

> Your dtr contracted HIB from another vaccinated child who in turn ALSO

>infected another child who was vaccinated?!!..geesh! So now, not only do I

>have to keep in mind the risk of contracting the disease from OPV and the

>new Rotavirus shield, but HIB as well? Maybe I should just lock our family

>in our home for the rest of our days. NOT!!

Just to clarify - my daughter was not vaccinated against HIB. I don't

think the HIB vaccine is live so I don't know that it can be contracted

from a recently vaccinated child. I just wanted to show that out of three

children that came down with this my daughter was the only unvaccinated

child and that she came off much better.

Judy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Judy <earthmum@...>

My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3144/

Mother to 2/93, 2/95, and 11/97.

" If you educate a man you educate an individual, but when you

educate a woman you educate the whole family and the community.

When the woman moves forward, the family move, the village

moves and the nation moves forward. "

Mahatma Gandhi.

[Guest guest]

Wow!! Thanks for sharing Judy...sounds like you've gotten to see the

difference of diseases and illness that were contracted naturally and the

harmful effects of immunizations. That must have been so very scarry to

experience your child having an adverse reaction. I commend you for

following your heart, and not putting your other children at risk. It is

stories like yours that really assure me that I have made the right

decision. I'm sure I'm not the only one who (occasionally) questions my

reasoning.

Your dtr contracted HIB from another vaccinated child who in turn ALSO

infected another child who was vaccinated?!!..geesh! So now, not only do I

have to keep in mind the risk of contracting the disease from OPV and the

new Rotavirus shield, but HIB as well? Maybe I should just lock our family

in our home for the rest of our days. NOT!!

Mama nature has an ideal order to the building of the immune system---you

are just asking for trouble when you interfere IMO.

blessings,

Lana

aka malana

mama of Cody Ukiah 8-15-97

At 06:16 PM 9/5/98 +1200, you wrote:

>From: Earthmum <earthmum@...>

>

>

>Hi everyone,

>

>My name is Judy and I have three children aged 5 1/2, 3 1/2 and 9 months.

>The eldest two are girls, baby is a boy. I used to be on the AVML list but

>the mail volume was overwhelming so I had to sign off. I'm glad to find

>you all :-) Here is my experience with vaccines:

>

>My eldest daughter received her first three vaccines (NOT an informed

>choice) - after the first my perfectly healthy

> baby had three and a half hours of cerebral screaming. Thankfully she had

>no lasting damage. After that she

> experienced her first bout of tonsilitis and an ear infection. Two weeks

>after the shot she was seen at the hospital with

> screaming like the one she did after her vaccination. The doctor that

>referred her was concerned but since they hadn't

> heard her in the hospital they said it was probably colic and I was a

>fussy first time mother. Believe me, I have plenty of

> experience with babies and having since had three kids, all of who had

>colic, I have NEVER heard a baby scream like

> that. I suspect that was vaccine related but can't prove that so it is

>only speculation.

>

> Although I was told it was a contraindication my first daughter received

>two more rounds of shots because I was

> scared into it. Her immune system crashed each time. After this I decided

>no more vaccines after reading some

> information I had looked for but been unable to find when I had been

>pregnant with her. Thankfully it is much more

> available now.

>

> My eldest daughter was sick ALL THE TIME - my two unvaccinated kids have

>almost never been sick. My eldest

> daughter is now that way but it's taken time. They get one cold each

>Winter and have had chicken pox and rubella - if

> they hadn't had spots I would never have known they were sick!

>

> My eldest daughter got HIB when she was 17 months. I had earlier refused

>the vaccine so was of course chastised for

> that in the hospital. They didn't know at the time of course that she had

>contracted the disease from an IMMUNISED

> child who had also given the illness to a second IMMUNISED child. My

>daughter was probably sicker over the three

> hours she had the rash and was in hospital overnight (only because they

>suspected meningitis) but the vaccinated kids,

> although they never ended up in the hospital, were bedridden and very sick

>with the full blown rash for TWO WEEKS.

> I consider that my daughter came off best in that one.

>

> My eldest daughter may have also had whooping cough - as the doc pointed

>out, in most cases it can't be diagnosed

> without tests so she couldn't confirm that diagnosis. She was vaccinated

>against whooping cough as a baby so if vaccines were so effective she

>shouldn't have got it - I didn't know at the time that the pertussis

>vaccine has only got a 35-45% efficacy rate. My husband had

> whooping cough as a baby when he was vaccinated against it.

>

> I must also point out that my daughter's reaction was NEVER reported - it

>has been since, three years after it happened

> because I made sure of it, but if it wasn't for me finding out it was

>supposed to be reported it would never have been

> known. I also have myself as an example - I have never had measles since

>my parents had me vaccinated against it.

> After contracting chicken pox at 22 I asked for a test to show if I was

>immune to measles as I didn't want to get that

> too so wanted to know where I stood. Well, I was told that the results

>suggested some immunity but he couldn't

> promise anything since it was questionable. Well, I WISH I had had both

>measles and chicken pox as a child. After my

> experience with chicken pox I don't relish the idea of having to go

>through measles as well. (No, I won't get

> vaccinated). I don't want my children to have to deal with this sort of

>thing as adults like I have had to. I want them to

> get the illnesses now so that they will have lifelong immunity, not the

>transient immunity I apparently had. Of course I can't guarantee I would

>have got measles since I didn't get chicken pox which I wasn't vaccinated

>against...

>

> For some reason, even after I'd had rubella as 9 year old my mother saw

>fit for me to be vaccinated for rubella as usual

> at 11. (Why on earth she saw the need to do that is beyond me). For YEARS

>afterwards I suffered joint pains as can

> occur after this vaccine. I remember sitting in typing class at school

>unable to type due to the pain. Thankfully, that has

> also passed. My pregnancy blood tests show very high rubella titers.

>

>I have no hesitations about my decision not to vaccinate. Had I known what

>I do now I would never have started vaccinating - my instinct told me not

>to. I had searched for the 'other side' of the vaccination debate when I

>was pregnant with my first but couldn't find ANYTHING anywhere. I guess in

>some ways it is nice to have the validating experience I got with this but

>it's a shame my poor daughter had to suffer for it.

>

>Sorry this is so long. Nice to meet you all :-)

>

>Judy.

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Judy <earthmum@...>

>My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3144/

>Mother to 2/93, 2/95, and 11/97.

>

> " If you educate a man you educate an individual, but when you

>educate a woman you educate the whole family and the community.

>When the woman moves forward, the family move, the village

>moves and the nation moves forward. "

>Mahatma Gandhi.

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

At 01:00 AM 10/21/98 -0400, you wrote:

>From: " sheilat111 " <sheilat111@...>

>We also homeschool in a very relaxed child-led manner, avoid antibiotics at

all costs, go to a chiropractor instead of a Dr., exclusively breast feed

the baby(although he has started demanding some tastes in the last week or

two) and almost all sleep together(the 7yo sleeps alone 95% of the time) I

think that covers the basics.

Welcome to the list Sheila!! Sounds like we have alot in common

We look forward to homeschooling our son (montessori style) in the years to

come. We also love our family bed - especially now that it's getting cold

out; its nice to snuggle with warm bodies *smiles*.

So - tell me, what does the chiropractor do for your baby?...any back

adjustments? I have considered taking my son; but I can't help but feel a

little hesitant. Their undeveloped bones and body seem to fragile to mess

with IMO and wouldn't want to risk anything....besides, I notice my sons

back cracks naturally whenever I pick him up or playin' round with him.

Hope you all are having a nice weekend

Take Care~

Lana

mama of Cody Ukiah (8-15-97)

>Hello, I just joined the list, I'm Sheila SAHM to a 7yob, 5yog, and 1(next

>week)yob. The 7yo has had all his shots upto age 4, the 5yo upto age 2 and

>the 1 yo none. Somewhere along the lines I started reading and educating

>myself and stopped doing what the Drs. said to do. Actually I think we just

>quit going to Drs. The last baby was born at home and it was wonderful!

>We did go through pertussis with the 5yo when she was 3-4 months so

>thankfully she only received one dose of that vaccine, although it is still

>one too many. Looking back I could just kick myself for some of the things I

>let happen just because I didn't know any better. But I guess you live and

>learn! By the 10th kid I should have it perfect, ha-ha don't tell my DH that

>he says we're done!

>

>We also homeschool in a very relaxed child-led manner, avoid antibiotics at

>all costs, go to a chiropractor instead of a Dr., exclusively breast feed

>the baby(although he has started demanding some tastes in the last week or

>two) and almost all sleep together(the 7yo sleeps alone 95% of the time) I

>think that covers the basics.

>

>Sheila Terry

>SheilaT111@...

>

>Just as eating against one's will is injurious to health, so study without

>liking for it spoils the memory, and it retains nothing it takes in.

>-Leonardo Da Vinci

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome ,

Please post any questions you may have about any of the diseases or

vaccines. Please take the time and read through the archived posts at

/archives.cgi/Vaccinations

If you would like info on your state vaccine laws or anything else please

post. You may even find someone on the list in your state!!

List Owner

Intro

From: spygirl@...

My name is . I have just started researching the issue of vaccination

so that I can make an informed decision for my next baby. When my son was

born two and a half years ago I didn't know that some people were choosing

not to vaccinate and I had no idea of the reasons why. I still don't know

the reasons but I am determined to learn them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi . Welcome. What other church have you found that is anti-vacc? Just

curious. I have a couple of addresses somewhere and will try to find them

for you. --Tammy

Andy Velwest wrote:

> From: Andy Velwest <velwest@...>

>

> Hi all. My name is . I joined this list kind of by accident as I

> was trying to join another list! But it looks like I fit in quite well

> here and I think I'll stay!! I am mom to Bob (5/24/94) Art (3/28/96)

> and Louis (1/3/99). Bob and Art are fully vaccinated so far. I had a

> home birth for Louis and that whole process made me look at many medical

> issues in a different light than I did before. I bagan to seriously

> research vax while I was pregnant. I have quite a few books on the

> subject now, and I looked at stuff on the internet. Also, it turns

> out I know quite a few people who did not vax their kids - didn't know

> that about them before I started asking questions. So louis hasn't had

> any shots and I don't think the others will get any more. I continue to

> get more information in the topic. I'm not familiar with the church of

> illumination, but I've found another anti vax church which I will

> probably be joining. How can I find out about the church of

> illumination?

>

> vw

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life?

>

> Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories

[Guest guest]

Jule wrote:

> I am new to the list and have been lurking for a week or so.

Welcome!

> I have 3

> children, 17, 15 and 10. The youngest was diagnosed ADHD in first grade

> (currently in 4th) and with major depression and OCD in October '97. He

> was admitted this week to a child psychiatric hospital for an acute

> exacerbation of his depression and OCD.

I am sorry to hear that he has been suffering so much.

> The doc mentioned autism as a possible diagnosis in addition to the rest.

> It fits with his longstanding expressive language problem, his poor eye

> contact (worse in the past), his inability to function in a group of peers,

> etc. In some ways, the diagnosis is beside the point as long as we find

> effective treatment.

My understanding is that the medication management for autism is quite

different than for ADHD, so in this respect the diagnosis could matter.

>I am lucky to have a

> wonderful staff at my son's school who are working very hard to find an IEP

> plan that will help him stay in school. Right now he has an intense school

> phobia. Our IEP team has been meeting almost weekly, and they brought in a

> special education resource consultant to inservice staff.

Yes, you are indeed very fortunate!

>

> Several people have written about advocacy issues and learning to navigate

> both the medical/insurance system as well as the laws surrounding FAPE. I

> often wonder how people manage when they don't have the education,

> supports, energy, etc. to advocate for their children. It can be such a

> lonely and full-time battle. More than once I have considered giving up my

> job to devote all my time to advocacy. I am hoping to eventually write an

> article for a nursing and/or parenting journal on advocacy. The more we as

> parents going through this can share our experience with others, the better

> the world will go for our children and those who come after them.

I agree that more advocacy assistance for parents is sorely needed.

Your experience would be valuable to others.

>

> I was quite interested in the information Fran shared on Risperidol. The

> reason my son's doctor gave for prescribing it in place of Adderall was to

> reduce his anxiety and combat his obsessive and depressive thoughts. She

> feels that the Adderall could well be contributing to his anxiety. I have

> to say that after just a couple days on the new med regime he is much

> better. He described his thoughts on admission as been a gazillion.

> Yesterday afternoon they were down to a million, and last night only 900.

> I would be interested in your thoughts, Fran, on this, as you have more

> background in psychiatric nursing than I do.

Adderal certainly can contribute to increased anxiety and racing

thoughts, although this is a typical reaction for people who do *not*

have ADHD, not for those who do.

Another possible cause of racing thoughts is bipolar disorder. Many

children who have bipolar disorder are originally diagnosed with ADHD,

because many of the symptoms overlap, and the bipolar diagnosis only

becomes clear after some time. The symptoms of bipolar disorder in

children may be somewhat different that in adults, in that rapid

cycling, ultradian cycling (switching back and forth between mania and

depression mmore than once in the same day), and mixed states (symptoms

of both depression and mania at the same time, for example, being hyper,

depressed, and irritable all at the same time) are much more common in

children, and this rather chaotic-looking picture can be confused with

severe ADHD. It sounds like your son's diagnosis is very complex. It

is common to have OCD with either ADHD or Asperger's disorder (a kind of

high-functioning autism). It is certainly possible to have OCD in

addition to bipolar disoder. Risperdal can help OCD, particularly when

it is combined with an SSRI (such as the Prozac he is on), and

particulary in people who also have tics. If he is obsessing on

depressive thoughts, then the Risperdal can help that, too.

It sounds like his doctor is both capable and concerned. I hope that

your son's diagnostic picture can be clarified while he is in the

hospital, and that a med regimen that really helps him in the long run

can be established. If he has bipolar disorder, mood stabilizers could

help. If he has autism, a different med regimen would be indicated. I

do not know a great deal about the treatment of autism, however.

Again, welcome to the list,

Fran

[Guest guest]

I just read linda's list rules/suggestions about introducing oneself

I've had cfids for at least 7 years; viral onset, flulike symtpoms,

cognitive dysfunction, energy crashes, food intolerances (very severe). The

only treatment to really work is neurontin (prescribed for me by Jay

Goldstein) for the food problems (and somewhat for hypersensitivity to

sound). Recently i was retested for Lyme Disease and three tests came

back positive: Western Blot, IgM, Lyme Urine Antigen Test and the PCR.

Also tested for other tick-borned diseases and was positive for

babesia, which is a parasitical critter. I've started working with Dr.

Joe Burrascano in East Hampton, Long Island, who also thinks I have a

mixed picture of lyme and CFS. I was also tested recently for the evil

" stealth virus " at 's lab and was positive. Dr.

Burrascano uses Valtrex (an anti viral) for this, which is also the

drug Dr. Lerner uses. Lerner believes CFS is a cardiomyopathy of

the heart caused by Epstein Barr.

Well, that's my disease resume . . .

mike a.

[Guest guest]

>Lerner believes CFS is a cardiomyopathy of

> the heart caused by Epstein Barr.

Hi,

Welcome! Does Dr. Lerner find cardiomyopathy in each CFIDS patient? And

does he refer them to cardiologist? I have CFIDS and lupus & also possible

cardiomyopthy. However, some people are better with certain treatments,

but cardio problem as this leads to congestive heart failure. I also have

had high EBR titers, and Lyme titers. I haven't been tested for other tick

born diseases. So, guess I have another thing to worry about!! If you could

provide more info, I would appreciate it.

Take care,

Christie

tab@...

ICQ# 24506195

At 09:45 PM 4/17/99 EDT, you wrote:

>From: Msa0001@...

>

> I just read linda's list rules/suggestions about introducing oneself

>

> I've had cfids for at least 7 years; viral onset, flulike symtpoms,

>cognitive dysfunction, energy crashes, food intolerances (very severe).

The

>only treatment to really work is neurontin (prescribed for me by Jay

>Goldstein) for the food problems (and somewhat for hypersensitivity

to

> sound). Recently i was retested for Lyme Disease and three tests came

>back positive: Western Blot, IgM, Lyme Urine Antigen Test and the PCR.

>Also tested for other tick-borned diseases and was positive for

>babesia, which is a parasitical critter. I've started working with Dr.

>Joe Burrascano in East Hampton, Long Island, who also thinks I have a

>mixed picture of lyme and CFS. I was also tested recently for the evil

> " stealth virus " at 's lab and was positive. Dr.

>Burrascano uses Valtrex (an anti viral) for this, which is also the

>drug Dr. Lerner uses. Lerner believes CFS is a cardiomyopathy

of

> the heart caused by Epstein Barr.

>

> Well, that's my disease resume . . .

>

> mike a.

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?

>http://www.ONElist.com

>Come join one of the 115,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Christie, Dr. Lerner has written on a " subset " of patients he believes have

cardio problems.

Gail

[Guest guest]

does valtrex help at all I tried it and it did nothing for me.

thanks

Steve

> Re: Intro

>

> From: Msa0001@...

>

> I just read linda's list rules/suggestions about introducing

> oneself

>

> I've had cfids for at least 7 years; viral onset, flulike

> symtpoms,

> cognitive dysfunction, energy crashes, food intolerances (very severe).

> The

> only treatment to really work is neurontin (prescribed for me by Jay

> Goldstein) for the food problems (and somewhat for hypersensitivity

> to

> sound). Recently i was retested for Lyme Disease and three tests came

>

> back positive: Western Blot, IgM, Lyme Urine Antigen Test and the PCR.

>

> Also tested for other tick-borned diseases and was positive for

> babesia, which is a parasitical critter. I've started working with

> Dr.

> Joe Burrascano in East Hampton, Long Island, who also thinks I have

> a

> mixed picture of lyme and CFS. I was also tested recently for the evil

>

> " stealth virus " at 's lab and was positive. Dr.

> Burrascano uses Valtrex (an anti viral) for this, which is also

> the

> drug Dr. Lerner uses. Lerner believes CFS is a cardiomyopathy

> of

> the heart caused by Epstein Barr.

>

> Well, that's my disease resume . . .

>

> mike a.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?

> http://www.ONElist.com

> Come join one of the 115,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I am ine, I thought i might introduce myself

My husband has had a kidney transplant in 1985, and between 1080-1985 he

acquired HepC. we didn't find out untill 91. We have had two children during

that time, i can tell you we were devastated when we found out. and still have

very many concerns about it...eg: when he will get sick and what type of liver

problems it will cause. Sex as well, this worries me alot, we have been using

protection since we found out. the doctor said that the chance is less than 1%

but still he couldn't gaurantee i wouldn't get it, so we dont take any

risk..this is cumbursome somtimes

[Guest guest]

Hey Sam (I see you're from NC so I know you'll recognize the official southern

greeting " hey " ). I only have a minute so I can't respond fully but one thing

that comes to mind is this : is

there any way you can shorten your daughter's day? If not don't stress over it,

I just know that one of the strategies that has been important for my daughter

is to have lot's of " down

time " . I also keep her on a strict bedtime schedule - she needs lot's of sleep.

If you need the after school for childcare due to your work schedule another

idea is to hire someone, like a

graduate student, to pick her up from school and bring her home. Being at home

is less stressful (sometimes less fun too but that's the breaks) than group

care.

Dana in NC

Sam Beck wrote:

> From: Sam Beck <sbeck@...>

>

> I just found out about this list...and already I realize what a great

> resource!! A quick intro... My daughter, Lohr, is 9 & in 4th grade. She

> was diagnosed with OCD at age 5 (with symptoms practically since

> birth). She is currently on Luvox (compulsions include counting and

> ordering and needs for everything to be " just so " ) She excels in

> academically gifted classes and loves school - our major concerns with

> Lohr are all social & behavioral. (She has been suspended from her

> afterschool program twice this year for backtalking, refusing to comply

> with requests, " blowing up " , etc.) I loved the description about

> " fragile days " & will definitely use it with Lohr since we certainly

> have our share of " perceived persecutions " from classmates, friends,

> afterschool supervisors, etc & notice that these complaints all seem to

> come in bunches. Can anyone share strategies with me on dealing with

> the temper and oppositional behavior stuff - my husband & I can sure use

> it as well as share possible interventions with her afterschool

> counselors. We've tried distancing ourselves (for our needs as much as

> hers) when she starts " spinning out of control " but that doesn't work...

> Lohr becomes even more upset, agitated, verbally abusive, etc. She will

> even fling herself at me in an effort to restrain me and keep me from

> leaving the room (even tho' some time to herself always helps her to

> calm down). Her younger sister also becomes frightened of her and very

> upset when Lohr is in this " blow-up " mood. Any

> suggestions/interventions that seem to help?

>

> --

> Sam in NC

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Are you hogging all the fun?

> http://www.ONElist.com

> Friends tell friends about ONElist!

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may visit their

web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for chatroom support at

http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

[Guest guest]

john,

hi and welcome to the vaccinations list! i used to

live in england, in blandford, dorset, before we moved

here... i've just learned that creosote appears to be

a very effective cancer remedy. do you have any of

that on your site? if not, i'll collect the info for

you. i'm only just learning about desert plants,

having moved here a couple of months ago... but this

bush seems to be real effective...

claudia

--- <whale@...> wrote:

> From: " " <whale@...>

>

>

>

> Intro

>

> I am a father of 5 kids, the last three have not

> been vaccinated (12, 5 & 2).

>

> I collect cancer & vaccine info, which I recently

> put on my site

> www.whale.to It includes Dr Kelleys cancer book---a

> cancer cure you aren't

> allowed to have as it would deplete the income of

> the cancer industry by

> around 90%. Another interest is earth

> radiation---possibly the main cause

> of disease---no money in investigating that

> one---and dental toxicity, the

> other main disease factor.

>

> You have to be well uninformed to vaccinate, as I

> was with my first two

> kids. A monopoly industry, self-policing, run by

> businessmen.

>

> I also sell books, in the UK. Most are American

> imports. I have no

> financial connection with any therapy, doctor or

> medicine/supplements.

>

> Please send me any info you have on vaccines, cancer

> etc. I want it all up

> there on the net, not sitting is some filing

> cabinet. In fact www.whale.to

> is my filing cabinet and it sure beats the hell out

> of my tin job.

>

> Post is Whale, PO Box 38, Hereford, UK

>

>

>

>

>

> Welcome to

> Vaccinationsonelist

>

>

> >Hello,

> >

> >Welcome to the list. Please take a moment to review

> this message.

> >

> >All mail for this group is sent to:

> Vaccinationsonelist

> >

> >If you have questions that you would like me to

> answer personally please

> send

> >mail to Mom2Q@....

> >

> >Once you have received this note please take the

> time and post an

> introduction

> >to the group. We would be happy to hear about your

> vaccination

> experiences.

> >Also why you have

> >chosen not to vaccinate. Please ask any questions

> too, we are all here to

> learn

> >about

> >vaccinations and vaccine-related issues.

> >

> >I as the list owner have made a very educated

> decision not to vaccinate and

> my

> >daughter and all future children. I hope you enjoy

> this list and learn

> lots

> >about vaccinations.

> >

> >Please also take the time and view the archived

> posts from this list.

> There is

> >lots of information in our previous posts.

> >You can view these messages at:

> >/archives.cgi/Vaccinations

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

:

Creasote? You mean the stuff on railroad ties? I heard

that was a carcinogen. Mi mum died of breast cancer. I

think the chemo is what killed her! She lived in agony and

died a slow death.

> From: Ayaz <claudiaayaz@...>

i've just learned that creosote appears to be

> a very effective cancer remedy. do you have any of

> that on your site? if not, i'll collect the info for

> you. i'm only just learning about desert plants,

> having moved here a couple of months ago... but this

> bush seems to be real effective...

> claudia

Thanks,

C Casey

-.-. .-. .- .. --. -.-. .- ... . -.--

Death Insurance Agent

Email me to learn ways to save money on life and disability

insurance.

A page of history is worth a volume of logic.

~Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Guest guest]

Welcome to

>> Vaccinationsonelist

>>

>>

>> >Hello,

>> >

>> >Welcome to the list. Please take a moment to review

>> this message.

>> >

>> >All mail for this group is sent to:

>> Vaccinationsonelist

>> >

>> >If you have questions that you would like me to

>> answer personally please

>> send

>> >mail to Mom2Q@....

>> >

>> >Once you have received this note please take the

>> time and post an

>> introduction

>> >to the group. We would be happy to hear about your

>> vaccination

>> experiences.

>> >Also why you have

>> >chosen not to vaccinate. Please ask any questions

>> too, we are all here to

>> learn

>> >about

>> >vaccinations and vaccine-related issues.

>> >

>> >I as the list owner have made a very educated

>> decision not to vaccinate and

>> my

>> >daughter and all future children. I hope you enjoy

>> this list and learn

>> lots

>> >about vaccinations.

>> >

>> >Please also take the time and view the archived

>> posts from this list.

>> There is

>> >lots of information in our previous posts.

>> >You can view these messages at:

>> >/archives.cgi/Vaccinations

>> >

>> >

>> >

[Guest guest]

Intro

>From: " Dale & Swartz " <cdswartz@...>

>

>Hi all! My name is and I have 3 children, 2 girls and a boy.

The

>first 2 are fully vaccinated for their ages (6,3), we didn't know to

>question it. Our third is not quite 2 mos. old and we're researching and

>not doing anything we don't strongly believe in with him. We live in south

>central Pennsylvania, in Newburg, PA.

>

>I guess our whole " bucking the system " started when I realized that the

HepB

>was mandatory. Our oldest had gotten it in the hospital (she was one of

the

>first to be born and have that injected into them before discharge) and I

>was too out of it to really know what I was doing. Then we followed the

> " well the 1st got it, might as well " routine with #2. Then I saw a lot of

>documentaries about vaccines and side effects, etc. and started to wonder

>about them, so I started researching. Knowing that HepB was one that they

>hound you for at the hospital, I thought that should be the first one I

form

>an opinion on. We chose not to give it to our beautiful little son, we

>figure he doesn't have any risk factors (and if he decides to be sexually

>permiscuous or use drugs, he'll have more to worry about than HepB! LOL!)

>The nurse that was assigned to us at the hospital really hassled me about

it

>(choosing not to give it) and then, when she realized I wasn't budging, was

>totally cold and clinical. I figure I've seen what I'll be facing now.

>Several other new moms from my church have questioned me about it and just

>don't understand our decision (one can't wait to give her 1 mo. old

daughter

>the roto virus vaccine!)

Incao's Hepatitis B Vaccination Testimony in Ohio

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/niin/incao_hepatitis_b_vaccination_te.htm

A Hard Look at Hepatitis B Vaccination

http://www.ffitz.com/niin/health/hep-b/default.htm

Burton A. Waisbren, Sr., M.D. is a mainstream physician who enthusiastically

supports

vaccination where a risk/benefit ratio has been demonstrated, but hopes

" that groups such as

yours will ask a federal judge for an injunction to stop universal hepatitis

B vaccination because it

is an experiment that violates the civil rights of children who are put into

the experiment

Belkin testimony to Congress

http://www.ffitz.com/niin/health/hep-b/tstimony.htm

Case Reports: Postvaccinal Encephalomyelitis Following Hepatitis Vaccination

Burton A. Waisbren, Sr., M.D., F.A.C.P. http://www.ffitz.com/niin/case.htm

COURT HEARING (France) AGAINST THE HEPATITIS B VACCINE JULY 1998

http://www.ctanet.fr/vaccination-information/plainte.htm

www.whale.to/Vaccines/hepatitis.html

That lot should make your hair stand on end.

>

>So, now I have until Tuesday (27th) to have my final arguments made for the

>2mo. vaccinations. I know the doctor will hassle me, especially since

we've

>vaccinated the others. I am researching each individual one and

considering

>the risks of disease vs. risks of vaccination. So far, we're only definite

>on the HepB. Could someone please give me well thought out arguments for

>the DTP (each component if possible) and polio?

Dr mendelsohn www.whale.to/Vaccines/Mendelsohn.html

Polio www.whale.to/Vaccines/polio.html

DTP package inserts www.whale.to/Vaccines/package_inserts.html

It's interesting to note, I

>suppose, that my DH wasn't vaccinated for anything. He never even had a

>needle in his skin until he was applying for our marriage license and had

to

>have a blood test (and his entire arm got black and blue, shoulder to

>wrist). He did have measles, mumps (as did I) and I think rubella, and of

>course chicken pox (as did I). And to think, he's still alive and well?!

>LOL!

>

>I'm looking forward to learning more and strengthening my stance on

>vaccinations through education. Thanks in advance for all the help!

Book to download Obomsawin, M.D. Universal Immunization. Published

by the Health Action Network Society, Burnaby, B.C., Canada.

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02healthlibrary/0201hygienlib & 127;cat/020115imm

un/020115immun.toc.html

www.whale.to/Vaccines/vaccine_books.html

Consult a naturopath & homeopath if you can find any who haven't been bought

by the allopaths.

>

>.

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Marsha. I'm also in Seattle. I had my doubts too, but I've become alot

more convinced in the last several months after being on this list, and

especially hearing people's stories about how their children have been

damaged. My daughter is almost 4, she hasn't had any vaccines and is

extremely healthy. All of her friends and cousins who have been vaccinated

seem to be sick all the time.

intro

From: " Marsha Hudson " <marsha@...>

Hi. I am new to this list. I thought I would tell you a little about

myself and my child. My name is Marsha, I am married, and I live in

Seattle. I am a professional but for the last 3-1/2 years have been a SAHM.

My son will be four in November. He had the first two Hib vaccinations

(before I " saw the light " and my husband was pretty persuasive then) but

none after. He had a febrile seizure when he was 13 months old (four days

before Christmas). It was a very short grand mal-type seizure related to

his flu-related fever and there were and have been no negative side-effects.

However, such a reaction to fever contra-indicates the MMR because it does

cause a fever.

I had considered giving him the Measles vaccination but it does not come

independent of the Mumps and Rubella and there is the issue of fever. I am

concerned now that I am preparing him to start preschool in a few weeks --

his first time at something apart from me. He will be in a small class of

12 kids and two adults -- that's the entire school. But he will be exposed

to lots more illnesses than he has all these years at home with me. Not

that we don't get out everyday but he has not spent that kind of time in an

environment so close to so many kids. His risk of being exposed to

fever-related illnesses (like the flu) is great, in fact, a certainty! And

his risk of being exposed to measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc, is also much

higher.

Even though I am fairly convinced I have made the right choices about not

vaccinating him further, I do worry. Are you all CONVINCED, without a doubt

that you have made the right choices? Or do you, like me, always second

guess yourself? I look forward to hearing more from you.

Marsha in Seattle

---------------------------

[Guest guest]

-----Original Message-----

From: Maya Ojalehto (General Employment) <a-mayao@...>

>Even though I am fairly convinced I have made the right choices about not

>vaccinating him further, I do worry. Are you all CONVINCED, without a

doubt

>that you have made the right choices? Or do you, like me, always second

>guess yourself? I look forward to hearing more from you.

>

>Marsha in Seattle

>

I'm convinced. It helped to talk to a naturopath & homeopath at the time

some years ago. You only have to read one article to know more about

vaccines than the average GP, and half an article to know more than he'll

ever know on health & nutrition.

The vaccinators (allopaths) record over a century:

“At your next dinner party, try playing the following game. Challenge

everyone around the table to produce a single drug that can cure people of

an illness, other then antibiotics. If you come up with anything, stop

whatever you are doing and call me.”---Lynne McTaggart. www.wddty.co.uk

Their best cancer therapy:

“the great success stories of chemotherapy were always in relatively obscure

types of cancer. Childhood leukemia constitutes less than two percent of all

cancers and many of chemotherapy's other successes were in diseases so rare

that many clinicians had never even seen a single case (Burkitt's lymphoma,

choriocarcinoma, etc.)”—Ralph Moss

“Two to 4% of cancers respond to chemotherapy……The bottom line is for a few

kinds of cancer chemo is a life extending procedure---Hodgkin's disease,

Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia, Testicular cancer, and

Choriocarcinoma.”----Ralph Moss, Ph.D. 1995 Author of Questioning

Chemotherapy.

And don't bet on your child living over 7 years after chemo for childhood

leukemia.

Around 30 years ago Dr Hardin B. , Professor of Medical Physics &

Physiology at Berkeley, announced the results of sifting and collating a

large number of unpublished hospital records, announced at the 1969 Science

Writers Conference of the ACS. He disclosed that analysis of the mass of

case histories indicated that, statistically, the life expectancy of

untreated cancer cases appears to be FOUR TIMES LONGER than that of treated

individuals.

http://whale.to/cancer.html

Their ethics:

" I had a brain cancer specialist sit in my living room and tell me that he

would never take radiation if he had a brain tumor. And I asked him, 'but,

do you send people for radiation?' and he said, of course. 'I'd be drummed

out of the hospital if I didn't. " ---Ralph Moss

" A study was done which shows the majority of oncologists who refer patients

for chemotherapy for lung cancer would not themselves take chemotherapy for

lung cancer. And in fact if the chemotherapy involved cis-platen, something

like 75% of them said they wouldn't take it. But what do these people do all

day long? They're sending people for cis-platen. " --Ralph Moss

(www.ralphmoss.com

Their medical politics

“this (Coley’s toxins) is really an effective treatment and it an OUTRAGEOUS

crime of the century that we at MSK were able to cure cancer a 100 years ago

that they can't cure today.”----Ralph Moss

http://www.livelinks.com/sumeria/canc/rmoss.html

The joke arthritis drugs, no better than placebo:

“Early statistics kept by referral physicians demonstrated that 80% of those

who follow our (Arthritis Fund) recommendations got well…providing they hadn

’t been treated by traditional methods (which) drops our successes to 50%,

which is considerably greater than the “improvement” rate of about 33%

obtained through traditional treatments. Incidently, that 33% “improvement”

rate claimed by establishment treatments is just about equal to the placebo

effect.”---di Fabio author of Arthritis: Little Known Treatments.

And people trust them with vaccines? Folk have such a strong desire to

worship something. I guess a white coat is better than nothing.

" I no longer believe in Modern Medicine. I believe that despite all the

super technology and elite bedside manner….the greatest danger to your

health is the doctor who practices Modern Medicine. I believe that Modern

Medicine’s treatments for disease are seldom effective, and that they’re

often more dangerous than the disease they’re designed to treat. I believe

more than 90% of Modern Medicine could disappear from the face of the

earth---doctors, hospitals, drugs and equipment---and the effect on our

health would be immediate & beneficial……Modern Medicine can’t survive

without our faith, because Modern Medicine is neither an art nor a science.

It’s a religion. " ---Dr Mendelsohn, M.D.

www.whale.to

[Guest guest]

Marsha,

I have to say I am *convinced* absolutely that vaccines are a danger.

Mostly for reasons that are illogical and can't be explained. (But, I'm a

big believer in intuition.) I'd rather take my chances with a god-made

disease than a man-made poison.

Bekki Bradshaw

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/2957

ICQ# 14128223

intro

> From: " Marsha Hudson " <marsha@...>

>

> Hi. I am new to this list. I thought I would tell you a little about

> myself and my child. My name is Marsha, I am married, and I live in

> Seattle. I am a professional but for the last 3-1/2 years have been a

SAHM.

> My son will be four in November. He had the first two Hib vaccinations

> (before I " saw the light " and my husband was pretty persuasive then) but

> none after. He had a febrile seizure when he was 13 months old (four days

> before Christmas). It was a very short grand mal-type seizure related to

> his flu-related fever and there were and have been no negative

side-effects.

> However, such a reaction to fever contra-indicates the MMR because it does

> cause a fever.

>

> I had considered giving him the Measles vaccination but it does not come

> independent of the Mumps and Rubella and there is the issue of fever. I

am

> concerned now that I am preparing him to start preschool in a few weeks --

> his first time at something apart from me. He will be in a small class of

> 12 kids and two adults -- that's the entire school. But he will be

exposed

> to lots more illnesses than he has all these years at home with me. Not

> that we don't get out everyday but he has not spent that kind of time in

an

> environment so close to so many kids. His risk of being exposed to

> fever-related illnesses (like the flu) is great, in fact, a certainty!

And

> his risk of being exposed to measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc, is also

much

> higher.

>

> Even though I am fairly convinced I have made the right choices about not

> vaccinating him further, I do worry. Are you all CONVINCED, without a

doubt

> that you have made the right choices? Or do you, like me, always second

> guess yourself? I look forward to hearing more from you.

>

> Marsha in Seattle

>

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Amen! Has anyone read the book " The Gift of Fear? " It's a great book written

by a detective on how we need to listen to our instincts. It was featured on

Ophra and it makes so much sense how animals are given that gift to protect

their young and themselves from harm. Yes! Listen to your gut!

Kel

Rebekah Bradshaw wrote:

> From: " Rebekah Bradshaw " <junegodess@...>

>

> Marsha,

> I have to say I am *convinced* absolutely that vaccines are a danger.

> Mostly for reasons that are illogical and can't be explained. (But, I'm a

> big believer in intuition.) I'd rather take my chances with a god-made

> disease than a man-made poison.

>

> Bekki Bradshaw

> http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/2957

> ICQ# 14128223

>

> intro

>

> > From: " Marsha Hudson " <marsha@...>

> >

> > Hi. I am new to this list. I thought I would tell you a little about

> > myself and my child. My name is Marsha, I am married, and I live in

> > Seattle. I am a professional but for the last 3-1/2 years have been a

> SAHM.

> > My son will be four in November. He had the first two Hib vaccinations

> > (before I " saw the light " and my husband was pretty persuasive then) but

> > none after. He had a febrile seizure when he was 13 months old (four days

> > before Christmas). It was a very short grand mal-type seizure related to

> > his flu-related fever and there were and have been no negative

> side-effects.

> > However, such a reaction to fever contra-indicates the MMR because it does

> > cause a fever.

> >

> > I had considered giving him the Measles vaccination but it does not come

> > independent of the Mumps and Rubella and there is the issue of fever. I

> am

> > concerned now that I am preparing him to start preschool in a few weeks --

> > his first time at something apart from me. He will be in a small class of

> > 12 kids and two adults -- that's the entire school. But he will be

> exposed

> > to lots more illnesses than he has all these years at home with me. Not

> > that we don't get out everyday but he has not spent that kind of time in

> an

> > environment so close to so many kids. His risk of being exposed to

> > fever-related illnesses (like the flu) is great, in fact, a certainty!

> And

> > his risk of being exposed to measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc, is also

> much

> > higher.

> >

> > Even though I am fairly convinced I have made the right choices about not

> > vaccinating him further, I do worry. Are you all CONVINCED, without a

> doubt

> > that you have made the right choices? Or do you, like me, always second

> > guess yourself? I look forward to hearing more from you.

> >

> > Marsha in Seattle

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Maya. That's what I like to hear.

> intro

>

>

> From: " Marsha Hudson " <marsha@...>

>

> Hi. I am new to this list. I thought I would tell you a little about

> myself and my child. My name is Marsha, I am married, and I live in

> Seattle. I am a professional but for the last 3-1/2 years

> have been a SAHM.

> My son will be four in November. He had the first two Hib

> vaccinations

> (before I " saw the light " and my husband was pretty

> persuasive then) but

> none after. He had a febrile seizure when he was 13 months

> old (four days

> before Christmas). It was a very short grand mal-type

> seizure related to

> his flu-related fever and there were and have been no

> negative side-effects.

> However, such a reaction to fever contra-indicates the MMR

> because it does

> cause a fever.

>

> I had considered giving him the Measles vaccination but it

> does not come

> independent of the Mumps and Rubella and there is the issue

> of fever. I am

> concerned now that I am preparing him to start preschool in a

> few weeks --

> his first time at something apart from me. He will be in a

> small class of

> 12 kids and two adults -- that's the entire school. But he

> will be exposed

> to lots more illnesses than he has all these years at home

> with me. Not

> that we don't get out everyday but he has not spent that kind

> of time in an

> environment so close to so many kids. His risk of being exposed to

> fever-related illnesses (like the flu) is great, in fact, a

> certainty! And

> his risk of being exposed to measles, mumps, chicken pox,

> etc, is also much

> higher.

>

> Even though I am fairly convinced I have made the right

> choices about not

> vaccinating him further, I do worry. Are you all CONVINCED,

> without a doubt

> that you have made the right choices? Or do you, like me,

> always second

> guess yourself? I look forward to hearing more from you.

>

> Marsha in Seattle

>

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

I'm so relieved to see that I'm not the only one! I thought this fear of

them that I've developed was illogical as well. Whew, I'm not nuts! LOL

.

>From: " Rebekah Bradshaw " <junegodess@...>

>I have to say I am *convinced* absolutely that vaccines are a danger.

>Mostly for reasons that are illogical and can't be explained. (But, I'm a

>big believer in intuition.) I'd rather take my chances with a god-made

>disease than a man-made poison.

>

>Bekki Bradshaw

>http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/2957

>ICQ# 14128223

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Rebekah.

> Re: intro

>

>

> From: " Rebekah Bradshaw " <junegodess@...>

>

> Marsha,

> I have to say I am *convinced* absolutely that vaccines are a danger.

> Mostly for reasons that are illogical and can't be explained.

> (But, I'm a

> big believer in intuition.) I'd rather take my chances with

> a god-made

> disease than a man-made poison.

>

> Bekki Bradshaw

> http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/2957

> ICQ# 14128223

>

> intro

>

>

> > From: " Marsha Hudson " <marsha@...>

> >

> > Hi. I am new to this list. I thought I would tell you a

> little about

> > myself and my child. My name is Marsha, I am married, and I live in

> > Seattle. I am a professional but for the last 3-1/2 years

> have been a

> SAHM.

> > My son will be four in November. He had the first two Hib

> vaccinations

> > (before I " saw the light " and my husband was pretty

> persuasive then) but

> > none after. He had a febrile seizure when he was 13 months

> old (four days

> > before Christmas). It was a very short grand mal-type

> seizure related to

> > his flu-related fever and there were and have been no negative

> side-effects.

> > However, such a reaction to fever contra-indicates the MMR

> because it does

> > cause a fever.

> >

> > I had considered giving him the Measles vaccination but it

> does not come

> > independent of the Mumps and Rubella and there is the issue

> of fever. I

> am

> > concerned now that I am preparing him to start preschool in

> a few weeks --

> > his first time at something apart from me. He will be in a

> small class of

> > 12 kids and two adults -- that's the entire school. But he will be

> exposed

> > to lots more illnesses than he has all these years at home

> with me. Not

> > that we don't get out everyday but he has not spent that

> kind of time in

> an

> > environment so close to so many kids. His risk of being exposed to

> > fever-related illnesses (like the flu) is great, in fact, a

> certainty!

> And

> > his risk of being exposed to measles, mumps, chicken pox,

> etc, is also

> much

> > higher.

> >

> > Even though I am fairly convinced I have made the right

> choices about not

> > vaccinating him further, I do worry. Are you all

> CONVINCED, without a

> doubt

> > that you have made the right choices? Or do you, like me,

> always second

> > guess yourself? I look forward to hearing more from you.

> >

> > Marsha in Seattle

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

> Dear Marsha,

I'm sure it is the right decision. I started out by saying no vaccines until my

son was one year old. I let him have two shots then, DT and IPV, but it was

really hard on me to make that decision, and he hasn't had any since and my

daughter didn't have any at all.

For me the hard decision to make would be to GIVE the vaccines. I won't let my

kids have ANY drugs unless there would be a life threatening emergency.

Lone

> >

> > Even though I am fairly convinced I have made the right choices about not

> > vaccinating him further, I do worry. Are you all CONVINCED, without a

> doubt

> > that you have made the right choices? Or do you, like me, always second

> > guess yourself? I look forward to hearing more from you.

> >

> > Marsha in Seattle

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Keryl,

This is what I know about tetanus. Please anyone in group correct me if I am

wrong.

Tetanus is not caused by a virus but a bacteria. You must have a deep,

puncture wound and the wound closes right away so no oxygen gets into it. If

the bacteria is present it will attack the nerve cells in the spinal cord

that control muscle activity. The incubation period could be two days or two

weeks. 40% cases end in death of suffocation. Tetanus is rare in this

country, only 100 or fewer cases a year. (I wonder how many people get

bitten by a poisoneous snake.) Your chance of getting tetanus is very slim

unless you live on a horse farm. The best way to avoid it is to make sure

you clean the wound very well with water and soap, then use an antiseptic. I

also heard that there is a blood test to test if the bacteria is present

after you're wounded. Or you can always get the shot in the ER if you think

you need it.

Hope its helpful.

Intro

>From: Keryl72093@...

>

> Well, now that I've posted I guess I should introduce myself! LOL My

>name is Cheryl and I am mom to Nick(5) Jake(3) and Dan(9m). The oldest has

>been vaccinated up to 12m (darn it), the other 2 have never seen a doctor.

I

>have decided not to vax, but am being a bit wishy -washy about the tetnus.

>Anyway, I joined the list to keep myself educated and informed about this

>very important subject. I've been very pleased to see a lot of great info

>passed around in the short time since I joined!

>

>Cheryl

>

>---------------------------