gallstones

[Guest guest]

IIRC, the stones I saw were multi-colored.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:17:04 -0400

" Jewett, Diane C " <diane.c.jewett@...> wrote:

> On the liver/gallbladder flush forum in the curezone some people have had

their

> green stones examined and said they where cholesterol and pigment. Probably

> that is the debris that gets stuck on the walls of the gallbladder when there

is not

> enough movement through it because of the low fat diets we are following. I

did

> a liver flush and it helps similiar to way a bowel cleanse helps your bowels.

> Some people supposedly pass true calcified gallstones, but they are very

small.

> I am sure true calcified gallstones do not pass with these cleanses.

>

>

> Re: Re:gallstones

>

>

> i have done a lot of research and spoke to friends of mine before the flush.

one of the friends had severe attack and after doing the flush, she has never

had a problem again. she too was advised by her doctor to have her gall bladder

removed. she swears by it. i don't swear by anything, all i know is it APPEARS

to have been a good thing. i wouldn't say i felt " dirty " inside, i just felt

lighter. who can know anything for sure? diana

>

> Christie <christiekeith@...> wrote:

> >> . i found hundreds of pea green stones, all sizes. <<

>

> Did you possibly have any of them analyzed to see if they were gallstones?

That is what had mentioned, I'd very much like someone who has done this

cleanse to do that, just to see.

>

> >> i lost weight, and felt clean inside. <<

>

> I admit this is a pet peeve of mine, but... were you " dirty " inside before and

if so, did you feel dirty? I have this aversion to the whole cleanse/flush/detox

mentality about our bodies. I believe that given the right support they heal and

maintain themselves and it's not wise to take aggressive approaches to

" cleansing " them.

>

> Just my personal point of view.

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:35:33 -0400

" Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

>

> ------>alternatively, perhaps it's the body's repair mechanism? maybe when

> the body is flooded with a big dose of UNsaturated oil (olive oil used in

> the flush), it goes into overdrive to manufacture a lot of cholesterol to

> buffer or protect the unsaturated fatty acids from oxidation, and to protect

> cell membranes from excess permeability? That's what it does *in* cell

> *membranes*, but i don't know if it would do so quickly after ingesting a

> big dose of unsaturated oil, or wait until all that unsaturated oil got

> incorporated into cell membranes. IF this were the case, then the flush

> itself would be the *cause* of the excess cholesterol.

Hi Suze,

the last few times I did a flush, I used mostly coconut oil. I thought

this would be an upgrade over the standard procedure. Plus most olive

oil that people use is junk.

It should be noted that the olive oil flush is only one type of flush.

There are some pretty " harsh " flushes out there. I have an interview of

an MD who used them in helping to treat her patients with cancer. I will

see if I can find it. I think it might even have some pictures of stones

from some of her patients. I believe she had them in a jar.

[Guest guest]

>> But, I don't have much more to say to her now

not having any post-gallbladder removal protocol other than that I

believe that she can still safely use and enjoy coconut oil, but that

other fats are now definitely and permanently a problem in large

doses. <<

I had my gall bladder out years ago, I have no trouble with fats of any kind and

am currently on the third month of a diet that is around 70 percent of its

calories from fat.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>So, if someone here knows

>safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person,

>I would appreciate it.

:

I do empathize with the problem ... someone I know had a stomach-stapling

operation. No stomach left at all, can only eat a few bites. He's

lost 100 lbs, but ... what do you say? Esp. when a large chunk of your

life revolves around eating well? And how come the doctors will

just DO that?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

<<<<< I'll add that I had gut problems for a month producing fatty stools and my

fatty stools were eliminated through a single day of taking high-dose Primal

Defense.

>>>>>>

How high a dose?

[Guest guest]

Did you get good results with the coconut oil as compared to the olive?

Re: Re:gallstones

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:35:33 -0400

" Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

>

> ------>alternatively, perhaps it's the body's repair mechanism? maybe when

> the body is flooded with a big dose of UNsaturated oil (olive oil used in

> the flush), it goes into overdrive to manufacture a lot of cholesterol to

> buffer or protect the unsaturated fatty acids from oxidation, and to protect

> cell membranes from excess permeability? That's what it does *in* cell

> *membranes*, but i don't know if it would do so quickly after ingesting a

> big dose of unsaturated oil, or wait until all that unsaturated oil got

> incorporated into cell membranes. IF this were the case, then the flush

> itself would be the *cause* of the excess cholesterol.

Hi Suze,

the last few times I did a flush, I used mostly coconut oil. I thought

this would be an upgrade over the standard procedure. Plus most olive

oil that people use is junk.

It should be noted that the olive oil flush is only one type of flush.

There are some pretty " harsh " flushes out there. I have an interview of

an MD who used them in helping to treat her patients with cancer. I will

see if I can find it. I think it might even have some pictures of stones

from some of her patients. I believe she had them in a jar.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:12:15 -0400

" Jewett, Diane C " <diane.c.jewett@...> wrote:

> Did you get good results with the coconut oil as compared to the olive?

>

Yes. But I wasn't doing a liver/gallbladder flush for the purpose of

removing stones. It was more for prophylactic purposes.

[Guest guest]

My dad had his gall bladder removed after several years on statin

(cholesterol-reducing) 'medication'.

I think there is a connection.

I know what you mean of the akwardness of talking about diet if you

are into high-fat but for that particular person it may no longer be

best.

> My friend went on the Craig diet and then shortly after

losing

> the weight she wanted she started having terrible pains. The doctor

> told her she needed her gallbladder removed and confirmed that the

> Craig diet is what probably caused her condition--a very low

> fat diet consisting entirely of crappy, high-carb, processed foods

> plus lots of salads with low fat dressing.

>

> Yet another reason to avoid SALFD--Standard American Low Fat Diets.

>

> The sad ending to this story is that while I was on vacation, she

> went ahead and had the operation, despite my urging she at least

get

> a second opinion, explore some of the traditional alternatives,

etc.

> I had criticized her choice of diet from the outset. But what can

you

> say to someone who actually follows such nonsense to the letter

> without cheating and actually loses weight? Seems to me, people who

> want to lose weight above all can be pretty irrational and lose

their

> sense of self-preservation.

>

> After the operation, she apologized to me for doubting me on the

> Craig business. But, I don't have much more to say to her now

> not having any post-gallbladder removal protocol other than that I

> believe that she can still safely use and enjoy coconut oil, but

that

> other fats are now definitely and permanently a problem in large

> doses. We're still friends, but I try to steer the conversation

away

> from food, which for me, is really hard! So, if someone here knows

> safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal

person,

> I would appreciate it.

>

> in Berkeley

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I

finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she still won't

listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the surgery but if I bring

it

up she starts pressuring me to get it done - on me! (she only stopped

because I got angry and told her I wouldn't talk to her anymore). My

dad's on the pressure too.

Dawn

>

> >So, if someone here knows

> >safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person,

> > I would appreciate it.

>

> :

>

> I do empathize with the problem ... someone I know had a

> stomach-stapling operation. No stomach left at all, can only eat a few

> bites. He's lost 100 lbs, but ... what do you say? Esp. when a large

> chunk of your life revolves around eating well? And how come the

> doctors will just DO that?

>

> -- Heidi

email: lady_blaidd@...

Brenin Draig Web Design

www.BreninDraig.com

***************************************

Pendraig - Anatolian Shepherds, Great Danes and Kinder Goats

www.Pendraig.us

Weston A Price Foundation - Austin, TX Chapter

http://www.BreninDraig.com/WAPAustin/

Copyright c 2002 Dawn Luttrall.

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

You have got to stop your mom. There are so many complications. I friend's mom

got it done after I met her. She feels like the food is always stuck in her

esophagus and has to throw up just about every meal she eats to relieve the

feeling. Just about the only thing she can keep down are liquids, but not all.

She still eats junk foods, mainly in the way of soft drinks and ice cream and

soft candy. She has developed a hernia from all the vomiting and must have

another operation for that. And there are no guarantees she won't get another

hernia, if she continues vomiting. You can just imagine what this is doing to

her teeth. She has lost about 90 pds. but is on her way to being malnourished,

weak, fatigued and very sick.

I know it works for many people, but it sure didn't work for her. And it is non

reversible!!! Maybe you could show this to your mom.

Jafa

blaidd2@... wrote:

Heidi,

My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I

finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she still won't

listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the surgery but if I bring

it

up she starts pressuring me to get it done - on me! (she only stopped

because I got angry and told her I wouldn't talk to her anymore). My

dad's on the pressure too.

Dawn

>

> >So, if someone here knows

> >safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person,

> > I would appreciate it.

>

> :

>

> I do empathize with the problem ... someone I know had a

> stomach-stapling operation. No stomach left at all, can only eat a few

> bites. He's lost 100 lbs, but ... what do you say? Esp. when a large

> chunk of your life revolves around eating well? And how come the

> doctors will just DO that?

>

> -- Heidi

email: lady_blaidd@...

Brenin Draig Web Design

www.BreninDraig.com

***************************************

Pendraig - Anatolian Shepherds, Great Danes and Kinder Goats

www.Pendraig.us

Weston A Price Foundation - Austin, TX Chapter

http://www.BreninDraig.com/WAPAustin/

Copyright c 2002 Dawn Luttrall.

[Guest guest]

Jafa,

I don't know what to do. Maybe I should explain more.

My mom is a bit... well, mentally embalanced. And when I freak her out,

by sending her posts like yours, she takes it out on my Dad, who then

takes it out on me... and well, argh. My only hope is that my diet

convinces her that it CAN be done without surgery but this isn't a quick

weight loss plan. =( I can feel my clothes are loser but I have no

numbers to give her, no statistics, no scientific studies... not that she'd

listen. She'll stay mad at me for months, and I am not exaggerating and

Dad will be angry with me for making his life miserable.

I'm a VERY poor college kid, and couldn't even afford real groceries. I

was scraping by but still having to fill up on carbs because we couldn't

afford much protein or veggies. ($40 a week for groceries for 2 people).

My fiance is finally getting a promotion with a real paycheck so things are

going to be better, and my father helped me start my diet early by giving

me money every week and paying for supplements/probiotics/kombucha

mushroom etc. And thanks to some nice people (Dom!) I got my kefir

grains for free, well, I'll pay him back later.

Back to my mom, she's convinced she's dying (and well she is). She's

48, has type II diabetes with her blood sugar out of control (because she

binges on sugar and carbs), drinks diet cokes like they were water, aprox

100 ounces or more a day... which of course makes her eye site worse -

which she thinks is ALL the diabetes - AND makes her crave carbs. So, I

could lose her in a year if she doesn't do something, or in 5 to 10 years if

she does th gastric bypass. Either way, I'll feel responsible. So, anyone

have any bright ideas? =(

I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her every site

like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on this)

has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that, Dawn. " " I

can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister calls me a

fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all I've shown

her).

What's a daughter to do??

Dawn

> Dawn,

>

> You have got to stop your mom. There are so many complications. I

> friend's mom got it done after I met her. She feels like the food is

> always stuck in her esophagus and has to throw up just about every

> meal she eats to relieve the feeling. Just about the only thing she

> can keep down are liquids, but not all. She still eats junk foods,

> mainly in the way of soft drinks and ice cream and soft candy. She

> has developed a hernia from all the vomiting and must have another

> operation for that. And there are no guarantees she won't get another

> hernia, if she continues vomiting. You can just imagine what this is

> doing to her teeth. She has lost about 90 pds. but is on her way to

> being malnourished, weak, fatigued and very sick.

>

> I know it works for many people, but it sure didn't work for her. And

> it is non reversible!!! Maybe you could show this to your mom.

>

> Jafa

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I

>finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she still won't

>listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the surgery but if I bring

it

>up she starts pressuring me to get it done - on me! (she only stopped

>because I got angry and told her I wouldn't talk to her anymore). My

>dad's on the pressure too.

>

>Dawn

Gads, I wish I knew some good answers. I've seen so many people die and get

ruined needlessly. Starting with my ex-mother-in-law who smoked a pack

a day, but " when my time comes, it comes " . Her time did NOT have to come

via lung cancer!

I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily. Like, humans are

designed to need surgery? There was one great website (that no longer

exists, unfortunately) from a celiac woman who refused to get

her gall bladder out -- she went GF (and probably on a high-fat low-carb

diet?) and it healed. Gall bladder damage is very often related to upper-gut

damage. One doc thinks it is because the outlet gets blocked by inflammation,

or lack of the " gall bladder emptying " chemical.

There are likely other causes, but in at least ONE circumstance (gluten

intolerance)

the gall bladder is easily " saveable " .

http://members.shaw.ca/oldsite/gall_bladder_disease.htm

http://www.celiac.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=121 & p_catid= & sid=91\

hH9H0m8H6A82T-32103275074.d5

(Same article, better format)

Now, given the low level of clinical suspicion for celiac disease, I

anticipate the suggestion that absent gall bladder emptying, atresia, and

gall stones might occur in the absence of celiac disease. I did another

Medline search, and I can't find a single study that has tested atresia

patients or gallstone patients for celiac disease. My answer to the

suggestion that gall bladder disease may occur in the absence of celiac

disease is that there is no evidence to support such a contention.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Just realized how unclear/confusing I was.

She is going to get gastric bypass, to lose weight and is pressuring me to

do the same via guilt trips. =)

Dawn

>

> >Heidi,

> >

> >My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I

> > finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she

> >still won't listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the

> >surgery but if I bring it up she starts pressuring me to get it done

> >- on me! (she only stopped because I got angry and told her I

> >wouldn't talk to her anymore). My dad's on the pressure too.

> >

> >Dawn

>

> Gads, I wish I knew some good answers. I've seen so many people die

> and get ruined needlessly. Starting with my ex-mother-in-law who

> smoked a pack a day, but " when my time comes, it comes " . Her time did

> NOT have to come via lung cancer!

>

> I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily. Like, humans are

> designed to need surgery? There was one great website (that no longer

> exists, unfortunately) from a celiac woman who refused to get her gall

> bladder out -- she went GF (and probably on a high-fat low-carb diet?)

> and it healed. Gall bladder damage is very often related to upper-gut

> damage. One doc thinks it is because the outlet gets blocked by

> inflammation, or lack of the " gall bladder emptying " chemical. There

> are likely other causes, but in at least ONE circumstance (gluten

> intolerance) the gall bladder is easily " saveable " .

>

> http://members.shaw.ca/oldsite/gall_bladder_disease.htm

>

> http://www.celiac.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=121 & p_cat

> id= & sid=91hH9H0m8H6A82T-32103275074.d5

>

> (Same article, better format)

>

> Now, given the low level of clinical suspicion for celiac disease, I

> anticipate the suggestion that absent gall bladder emptying, atresia,

> and gall stones might occur in the absence of celiac disease. I did

> another Medline search, and I can't find a single study that has

> tested atresia patients or gallstone patients for celiac disease. My

> answer to the suggestion that gall bladder disease may occur in the

> absence of celiac disease is that there is no evidence to support such

> a contention.

>

>

> -- Heidi

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her every

site

like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on this)

has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that, Dawn. "

" I

can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister calls me a

fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all I've shown

her).

------>i don't have any advice to offer dawn, i just want to say i'm sorry

for what you're experiencing with your family. it made me so sad to read

this. you are not a freak, you are not a fanatic, you are probably the most

sane person in your family (absolutely no disrespect to them!). and you are

brave to forge ahead with what you know is right despite their apathy

towards their own health and lack of interest in your help. it sounds like

the best way to reach them (IF they are reachable) is by improving your own

health and being an *example* of the nutritional principles that you are

educating them about.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Folks...

There is the psychological side of all this to consider.

I am not a psychologist it is my only observations of the past.

We all have to hit bottom at some point, the reason why is individual to

everybody as well as the means of how they achieve it.

I have seen people hit bottom with the bottle, anorexia, bolemia, tragic

business decisions, endless horrible relationships, cancer, multiple

operations ect.....

I do think the current state of nutrition in this country has an effect

on people to the extent we can no longer listen to our own bodies and

know what is good for ourselves yet our bodies will do its best to

inform us even if it has to go under the knife to do so.

Yes some never hear it and drop through the bottom of this existence, I

surely believe they will get the picture on the other side.

All I can say is I know how hard it is to deal with the sight of your

own family members disintegrate before your eyes no matter how much you

tell them, or offer them an alternative.

They can not see it and will not see it until there own beliefs have

been verified from the bottom of the pit.

Just be there when they return, or wish them well if they don't, those

at the bottom often reach, for those closest when approaching it , don't

get caught yourself.

I don't mean to sound cold, it is how I see it.

Tim

blaidd2@... wrote:

> Jafa,

>

> I don't know what to do. Maybe I should explain more.

>

> My mom is a bit... well, mentally embalanced. And when I freak her

> out,

> by sending her posts like yours, she takes it out on my Dad, who then

> takes it out on me... and well, argh. My only hope is that my diet

> convinces her that it CAN be done without surgery but this isn't a

> quick

> weight loss plan. =( I can feel my clothes are loser but I have no

> numbers to give her, no statistics, no scientific studies... not that

> she'd

> listen. She'll stay mad at me for months, and I am not exaggerating

> and

> Dad will be angry with me for making his life miserable.

>

> I'm a VERY poor college kid, and couldn't even afford real groceries.

> I

> was scraping by but still having to fill up on carbs because we

> couldn't

> afford much protein or veggies. ($40 a week for groceries for 2

> people).

> My fiance is finally getting a promotion with a real paycheck so

> things are

> going to be better, and my father helped me start my diet early by

> giving

> me money every week and paying for supplements/probiotics/kombucha

> mushroom etc. And thanks to some nice people (Dom!) I got my kefir

> grains for free, well, I'll pay him back later.

>

> Back to my mom, she's convinced she's dying (and well she is). She's

> 48, has type II diabetes with her blood sugar out of control (because

> she

> binges on sugar and carbs), drinks diet cokes like they were water,

> aprox

> 100 ounces or more a day... which of course makes her eye site worse -

>

> which she thinks is ALL the diabetes - AND makes her crave carbs. So,

> I

> could lose her in a year if she doesn't do something, or in 5 to 10

> years if

> she does th gastric bypass. Either way, I'll feel responsible. So,

> anyone

> have any bright ideas? =(

>

> I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her every

> site

> like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on

> this)

> has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that,

> Dawn. " " I

> can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister calls

> me a

> fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all I've

> shown

> her).

>

> What's a daughter to do??

>

> Dawn

>

> > Dawn,

> >

> > You have got to stop your mom. There are so many complications. I

> > friend's mom got it done after I met her. She feels like the food

> is

> > always stuck in her esophagus and has to throw up just about every

> > meal she eats to relieve the feeling. Just about the only thing she

>

> > can keep down are liquids, but not all. She still eats junk foods,

> > mainly in the way of soft drinks and ice cream and soft candy. She

> > has developed a hernia from all the vomiting and must have another

> > operation for that. And there are no guarantees she won't get

> another

> > hernia, if she continues vomiting. You can just imagine what this

> is

> > doing to her teeth. She has lost about 90 pds. but is on her way

> to

> > being malnourished, weak, fatigued and very sick.

> >

> > I know it works for many people, but it sure didn't work for her.

> And

> > it is non reversible!!! Maybe you could show this to your mom.

> >

> > Jafa

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Just realized how unclear/confusing I was.

>

>She is going to get gastric bypass, to lose weight and is pressuring me to

>do the same via guilt trips. =)

>

>Dawn

Ah. Well, then, we'll pressure you the other way: DON'T DON'T DON'T. If you need

more pressure, just ask!

Your Mom has to make her own decisions, and if she is that addicted, it is a

problem.

I feel for you, and her ... your best bet though, is taking really, really good

care of

yourself, both as an example (as others have said) and so you can be there for

her. If you stick to a high-protein low-carb diet you are likely to be in better

shape psychologically too, and with all that stress, you'll need it!

I know it is really difficult getting good food on

a budget, I lived off very little money for a long time. People in our

society on a budget tend to go for carbs, carbs, carbs -- my friends were

all really big into potato chips, for some reason, though really, they

aren't very cheap.

I can offer one little piece of advice that helped me: get a membership to

a Costco, if you have one nearby. They don't have organic stuff, but at

least you can live without so many carbs. I can buy beef shoulder there

for $1.29/lb (boneless) and just cut it up into big roasts. Carrots are $2.99

for a huge bag (about 10 lbs, I think). Broccoli is about $4 for a huge bag,

and that is just the nice tops, no stems. A 20-lb roast lasts a LONG time

and costs about $30.

When I was really, really broke I

did most of my shopping in bulk, cut it up into smaller pieces and

froze it in my little freezer. I lived off vegies and meats, mostly,

and pasta (unfortunately, but I admit it!). Anyway, you can do your

low-carb diet affordably if you shop wholesale. Then when you get

richer stick to the same diet, but organic. First thing you do is

buy a big chest freezer and get grass-fed beef from the farmer,

wholesale, which is also darn cheap in the long run but you have

to have the outlay money to begin with, which is a challenge.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Dawn,

I really feel for you. But I am also diabetic, and 50 years old.

Let me tell you, your mom's problems are not YOUR fault. A diabetic

has to take control of her disease herself. I used to drink tons of

diet coke too. I got myself off it by drinking naturally sparkling

mineral water with whey and lemon juice because it tastes good to me

(I love the bubbles!) But the point is, a person has to take

responsibility for her own care. I have to be constantly educating

myself because I can't even trust my doctor (who wants me to take

Lipitor although my cholesterol is below 240.)

I know many diabetics who blame their poor health on their families,

their doctors, anyone but themselves. Having diabetes is beyond

one's control. But what IS within the diabetic's control is their

choices of food and lifestyle. I have had insulin-dependent diabetes

for ten years, and still have no complications and my blood sugar is

(mostly) under good control, but I have to watch it every single

day. That's just the reality of it.

I know you would love to get your mother to take better care of

herself, but ultimately you can't change another person's ways, no

matter how close you are to them. You can only present the

information and hope it is taken seriously.

Don't be too hard on yourself. And BTW, I do know several people who

have had gall bladders removed -- always because they went on non-fat

or Optifast diets -- but they are all doing pretty well. I'm not

saying it's the best choice, it certainly is not in my opinion, but

usually it isn't life threatening. Sorry this is so long. Ann

> Jafa,

>

> I don't know what to do. Maybe I should explain more.

>

> My mom is a bit... well, mentally embalanced. And when I freak her

out,

> by sending her posts like yours, she takes it out on my Dad, who

then

> takes it out on me... and well, argh. My only hope is that my

diet

> convinces her that it CAN be done without surgery but this isn't a

quick

> weight loss plan. =( I can feel my clothes are loser but I have no

> numbers to give her, no statistics, no scientific studies... not

that she'd

> listen. She'll stay mad at me for months, and I am not

exaggerating and

> Dad will be angry with me for making his life miserable.

>

> I'm a VERY poor college kid, and couldn't even afford real

groceries. I

> was scraping by but still having to fill up on carbs because we

couldn't

> afford much protein or veggies. ($40 a week for groceries for 2

people).

> My fiance is finally getting a promotion with a real paycheck so

things are

> going to be better, and my father helped me start my diet early by

giving

> me money every week and paying for supplements/probiotics/kombucha

> mushroom etc. And thanks to some nice people (Dom!) I got my kefir

> grains for free, well, I'll pay him back later.

>

> Back to my mom, she's convinced she's dying (and well she is).

She's

> 48, has type II diabetes with her blood sugar out of control

(because she

> binges on sugar and carbs), drinks diet cokes like they were water,

aprox

> 100 ounces or more a day... which of course makes her eye site

worse -

> which she thinks is ALL the diabetes - AND makes her crave carbs.

So, I

> could lose her in a year if she doesn't do something, or in 5 to 10

years if

> she does th gastric bypass. Either way, I'll feel responsible.

So, anyone

> have any bright ideas? =(

>

> I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her

every site

> like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on

this)

> has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that,

Dawn. " " I

> can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister

calls me a

> fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all

I've shown

> her).

>

> What's a daughter to do??

>

> Dawn

[Guest guest]

Thank you, it does help some.

Unfortunately I was upset and didn't make myself clear though, it's worse

then a gall bladder removal, she's doing gastric bypass. You know, they

staple her stomach to the size of a tiny pouch (the size of her thumb i

think?) so she can starve herself? This is also what she has been

pushing me to do to myself. Here's a quote, " I don't want to lose my

oldest daughter in the next two years to her weight problem " - something

like that. Maybe it was drop dead.

Ah well, big sigh. Tim's also right and (my fiance) tells me this all

the time, I can't save the world, he says, and I need to realize that first

with my family.

I am hoping my sister will join this list but she may not. If she does she

may tattle on me. *grin* Worth the risk for the education she can get

here.

Maybe it is so hard because I am still pretty young? 25, does dealing with

your parents get any easier?

Dawn

> Dawn,

> I really feel for you. But I am also diabetic, and 50 years old. Let

> me tell you, your mom's problems are not YOUR fault. A diabetic has

> to take control of her disease herself. I used to drink tons of diet

> coke too. I got myself off it by drinking naturally sparkling mineral

> water with whey and lemon juice because it tastes good to me (I love

> the bubbles!) But the point is, a person has to take responsibility

> for her own care. I have to be constantly educating myself because I

> can't even trust my doctor (who wants me to take Lipitor although my

> cholesterol is below 240.)

>

> I know many diabetics who blame their poor health on their families,

> their doctors, anyone but themselves. Having diabetes is beyond one's

> control. But what IS within the diabetic's control is their choices

> of food and lifestyle. I have had insulin-dependent diabetes for ten

> years, and still have no complications and my blood sugar is (mostly)

> under good control, but I have to watch it every single day. That's

> just the reality of it.

>

> I know you would love to get your mother to take better care of

> herself, but ultimately you can't change another person's ways, no

> matter how close you are to them. You can only present the

> information and hope it is taken seriously.

>

> Don't be too hard on yourself. And BTW, I do know several people who

> have had gall bladders removed -- always because they went on non-fat

> or Optifast diets -- but they are all doing pretty well. I'm not

> saying it's the best choice, it certainly is not in my opinion, but

> usually it isn't life threatening. Sorry this is so long. Ann

[Guest guest]

My next door neighbor had the gastric bypass last year and lost tons of weight.

But, she still eats poorly, albeit less quantity. She has stopped losing weight

now and has even regained some. If your mom has the surgery but can't change

her way of eating she is just shooting her self in the foot. If she can change

her diet then why have surgery? Kind of a catch-22 for her.

Sometimes when you want to give someone info. You find they don't want to hear

it from you (family politics and powerplays intrude). Maybe a friend she trusts

can be used as a conduit for this info.

Good luck

Amy

Re: Re: gallstones

>Just realized how unclear/confusing I was.

>

>She is going to get gastric bypass, to lose weight and is pressuring me to

>do the same via guilt trips. =)

>

>Dawn

Ah. Well, then, we'll pressure you the other way: DON'T DON'T DON'T. If you

need

more pressure, just ask!

Your Mom has to make her own decisions, and if she is that addicted, it is a

problem.

I feel for you, and her ... your best bet though, is taking really, really

good care of

yourself, both as an example (as others have said) and so you can be there for

her. If you stick to a high-protein low-carb diet you are likely to be in

better

shape psychologically too, and with all that stress, you'll need it!

I know it is really difficult getting good food on

a budget, I lived off very little money for a long time. People in our

society on a budget tend to go for carbs, carbs, carbs -- my friends were

all really big into potato chips, for some reason, though really, they

aren't very cheap.

I can offer one little piece of advice that helped me: get a membership to

a Costco, if you have one nearby. They don't have organic stuff, but at

least you can live without so many carbs. I can buy beef shoulder there

for $1.29/lb (boneless) and just cut it up into big roasts. Carrots are $2.99

for a huge bag (about 10 lbs, I think). Broccoli is about $4 for a huge bag,

and that is just the nice tops, no stems. A 20-lb roast lasts a LONG time

and costs about $30.

When I was really, really broke I

did most of my shopping in bulk, cut it up into smaller pieces and

froze it in my little freezer. I lived off vegies and meats, mostly,

and pasta (unfortunately, but I admit it!). Anyway, you can do your

low-carb diet affordably if you shop wholesale. Then when you get

richer stick to the same diet, but organic. First thing you do is

buy a big chest freezer and get grass-fed beef from the farmer,

wholesale, which is also darn cheap in the long run but you have

to have the outlay money to begin with, which is a challenge.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>

> Maybe it is so hard because I am still pretty young? 25, does

dealing with

> your parents get any easier?

>

> Dawn

Well, not to be depressing, but it doesn't seem to get easier!

Although my 75 year old parents eat pretty well (my mom does cook

from scratch, home canning and preserving, and buys organic whenever

possible), and they even eat more raw stuff than I do (they eat

sashimi, steak tartare, raw fish), still, I can't convince my mother

to stop taking Lipitor. I really hate the way the medical community

prescribe Lipitor to just about everybody over the age of 40. My

sister, my brother in law, and my mother are all on it, and I would

be too if I listened to my doctor. Bleaggh! It can cause liver

damage, and since I am currently watching my ex-husband at death's

door waiting for a liver transplant, that is far more scary to me

than the unlikely chance that cholesterol causes heart disease.

Ann

[Guest guest]

>>> Bleaggh! It can cause liver

damage, and since I am currently watching my ex-husband at death's

door waiting for a liver transplant, that is far more scary to me

than the unlikely chance that cholesterol causes heart disease.

----->ann, cholesterol does NOT cause heart disease. Lipitor, on the other

hand, may...and that's not to mention its other " side " effects. see below.

" Statin Drugs & Memory Loss

Duane Graveline, MD, MPH, a retired family doctor and former NASA

scientist/astronaut, recounted his own hair-raising experience taking the

popular statin drug Lipitor for only six weeks. Soon after he went for a

walk, Dr. Graveline was found wandering, confused, and reluctant to enter

his own home because he didn't recognize it or remember his wife's name. Six

hours later--after being examined by a neurologist and undergoing an MRI--he

came to his senses. Transient global amnesia (TGA) was diagnosed. Neither he

nor his physician suspected Lipitor, so Dr. Graveline was restarted on

one-half the previous dose. Again, at six weeks, the TGA returned. This

time, he regressed to his teen-age years with no memory for his time in

college, medical school, or the recent past. " Many decades of my life were

obliterated, " he said. " The diagnosis was TGA: cause unknown. "

To verify his growing suspicion that Lipitor might be the cause, Dr.

Graveline wrote to Joe and Graedon, the husband and wife team that

writes the syndicated column called The People's Pharmacy, which specializes

in warning the public about drug side effects. The Graedons asked for

permission to print his letter in their column, and once it appeared,

hundreds of people wrote in to say they, too, had experienced severe memory

loss while on Lipitor. " Patients are reluctant to report amnesia, or they

attribute the symptoms to old age or early Alzheimer's, " explained Dr.

Graveline. " And doctors are reluctant to see that the drug they prescribed

was the cause. " Still, the official word on Lipitor is that memory loss is

not a statin side effect. " Thousands of cases of memory dysfunction have

been reported to the FDA's Medwatch program, " he said, " but after two years,

the agency still hasn't acted. And most practicing physicians are unaware of

the problem. " Lipitor is not the only statin linked to this side effect,

observed Dr. Graveline.

A reporter pointed out to that FDA-required trials do not report memory loss

in people taking statins. An explanation was offered by M. Kauffman,

PhD, research professor of chemistry and biochemistry at the University of

the Sciences in Philadelphia. " In drug trials, the pharmaceutical companies

often divide similar adverse effects into six or seven different categories

to keep the scarier side effects under 1%. " To illustrate his point, Dr.

Kauffman said that amnesia could be divided into confusion, memory loss,

senility, and cognitive impairment. There is general acknowledgment,

however, that muscle pain, weakness, fatigue, peripheral neuropathy, and

rhabdomyolysis, a potentially fatal muscle disease, are statin side effects,

though they are thought to be rare. "

http://www.medicalconsumers.org/pages/cholesterol_skeptics.html

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

It seems like a simple, straight-forward answer to their problems, and it

fits their ideas of the world around them -- your car breaks down, you take

it to a mechanic; your washing machine craps out on you, you get it

serviced; etc.

>I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily.

-

[Guest guest]

>Heidi-

>

>It seems like a simple, straight-forward answer to their problems, and it

>fits their ideas of the world around them -- your car breaks down, you take

>it to a mechanic; your washing machine craps out on you, you get it

>serviced; etc.

>

>>I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily.

>

>-

Yes, this is true. Actually I was the same, just went to the doctor all the

time.

Actually the idea of having " specialists " is a good one -- like we've said

before,

a person should NOT have to spend half their life researching stuff to

solve what could be a simple issue. Our society is just kind of dysfunctional

in that respect.

Weight loss especially -- there are SO MANY different theories. According

to " change theory " , when a bunch of theories proliferate like this, it means

that the old system isn't working and people are experimenting to find

" the new paradigm " . So stomach stapling is one experiment. In theory,

one of the new paradigms will prove most effective and win out, and

that will be the paradigm for the near future. So I should be more

philisophical ...

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

, Christie

Thanks for the tips.

Heidi,

Thanks for the sympathy.

If anyone knows of any " official " looking sites about how someone

without a gallbladder can still eat a lot of fat, I'd appreciate it.

I think it will take more than " someone on this user group said... "

to counteract The Doctor's Advice (said with a certain amount of

gravity.

in Berkeley

[Guest guest]

>> If anyone knows of any " official " looking sites about how someone

without a gallbladder can still eat a lot of fat, I'd appreciate it.

I think it will take more than " someone on this user group said... "

to counteract The Doctor's Advice (said with a certain amount of

gravity. <<

You know, my surgeon literally told me to eat all the fat I wanted. Where

exactly is this idea coming from, that if you have no gall bladder you can't eat

fat? My mom had hers out just last fall and no one said anything to her about

not eating fat either.

Christie