gallstones

[Guest guest]

Someone just posted this on the misc health alternative newsgroup. In this website it states that Dr says gallstones is caused by wearing shoes. Scroll to the bottom. Has anyone ever read where she says this?

Jan

http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm

[Guest guest]

Jan, I went to that site. The guy is sincere, and all that, but he is still boxed in with only one way of testing and evaluating real world happenings, and apparently he is proud of that.

OK Leo thanks for the reply, but I still want to know if anywhere Hulda has EVER said that gallstones are caused by wearing shoes??

[Guest guest]

Jan, I went to that site. The guy is sincere, and all that, but he is

still boxed in with only one way of testing and evaluating real world

happenings, and apparently he is proud of that.

No one way can work. It's like saying, " one size fits all " , or like

Henry Ford said, " buy any colour you want, so long as it's black.

For those of us who are into literature, it is a Procrustean Bed

approach to accommodate the real world. An Indian scholar has

described mainstream economics as a Procrustean Bed. At

http://www.bartleby.com/81/13673.html we find the origin of the term,

namely, that

" Procrustes was a robber of Attica, who placed all who fell into his

hands upon an iron bed. If they were longer than the bed, he cut off

the redundant part; if shorter, he stretched them till they fitted it.

Any attempt to reduce men to one standard, one way of thinking, or one

way of acting, is called placing them on Procrustes' bed, and the

person who makes the attempt is called Procrustes. "

The names of mainstream medical interest groups and individuals and

the harm they do, comes to mind. Going back to your post, Jan, the guy

actually brags about his Procrustean Bed.

Leo

------------------------------------------------

> Someone just posted this on the misc health alternative newsgroup.

In this

> website it states that Dr says gallstones is caused by wearing

shoes.

> Scroll to the bottom. Has anyone ever read where she says this?

>

> Jan

>

> <A

HREF= " http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm " >http://www.pathguy.com/alte

rmed.htm</A>

[Guest guest]

In this

> website it states that Dr says gallstones is caused by

wearing shoes.

No diseases is caused by only one or two or just very few causative

agents.

Sometimes, few causative agents are most important, but still, there

are millions of others.

Wearing shoes is causative cofactor to any health problem, (not just

gallstones) to any person who wears shoes.

Human body have been created through millions of years, and for all

that time humans didn't wear shoes.

Our body is designed to be used barefoot.

Can you change genetical design in just few hundreds of years ?

Just like for all that time humans have never been exposed to high

levels (toxic levels) of metalic mercury, copper, fluoride, thallium,

arsenic, iron, nickel, chromium, zinc and of benzen, aspartame,

pesticides, antibiotics, preservatives, vaccination ... and all the

other toxic gifts of civilised lifestyle (over 1000 carcinogens ... ).

Today, we are saying no to free natural foot massage that we get when

walking barefoot. People even wear shoes on seaside, beach, on the

grass ...

Walk barefoot in the clean nature (not in the city, or village) and

you will boost your health, and eliminate.

Agnes

[Guest guest]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe Dr. advises

against wearing shoes! In fact, quite the opposite!

Not wearing shoes, especially outdoors, is a good way

to pick up certain parasites. I'd like to know the URL

of that website so we can set them straight.

Jan Bolen (Tim & Jan Bolen - JuriMed)

That also was my thinking, but don't set them straight until you know sure!

Jan

http://www.pathguy.com/altermed.htm

[Guest guest]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe Dr. advises

against wearing shoes! In fact, quite the opposite!

Not wearing shoes, especially outdoors, is a good way

to pick up certain parasites. I'd like to know the URL

of that website so we can set them straight.

Jan Bolen (Tim & Jan Bolen - JuriMed)

--- Agnes <dusan@...> wrote:

> In this

> > website it states that Dr says gallstones is

> caused by

> wearing shoes.

>

>

> No diseases is caused by only one or two or just

> very few causative

> agents.

>

> Sometimes, few causative agents are most important,

> but still, there

> are millions of others.

>

>

> Wearing shoes is causative cofactor to any health

> problem, (not just

> gallstones) to any person who wears shoes.

>

>

> Human body have been created through millions of

> years, and for all

> that time humans didn't wear shoes.

> Our body is designed to be used barefoot.

>

> Can you change genetical design in just few hundreds

> of years ?

>

> Just like for all that time humans have never been

> exposed to high

> levels (toxic levels) of metalic mercury, copper,

> fluoride, thallium,

> arsenic, iron, nickel, chromium, zinc and of benzen,

> aspartame,

> pesticides, antibiotics, preservatives, vaccination

> ... and all the

> other toxic gifts of civilised lifestyle (over 1000

> carcinogens ... ).

>

>

> Today, we are saying no to free natural foot massage

> that we get when

> walking barefoot. People even wear shoes on seaside,

> beach, on the

> grass ...

>

> Walk barefoot in the clean nature (not in the city,

> or village) and

> you will boost your health, and eliminate.

>

> Agnes

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Have you heard of doing liver/gall bladder flushes, which flush the stones out?

I have done a few and seen the buggers first hand. Also got rid of gall bladder

pain that way.

Donna

----- Original Message -----

From: belladormente

Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 1:05 PM

Subject: Gallstones

Unfortunately I have gallstones. The doctor said that I should have

my gallbladder removed sometime in the future. Also I was adviced to

stay away from acidic and fatty foods. Ok well I know that usually

when I have horrible pain it just comes and goes out of the blue so

I can't pinpoint it to anything I ate. I do suffer from heartburn

but I did notice that diminishing the amount of grains I eat usually

helps. Another thing I was able to pinpoint was that chocolate gives

me heartburn(really bad)as well as certain red wines unfortunately I

never know which ones until after I drink it(only on occasion) Does

anyone here have similar problems or know of something that would

help? Thanks in advance B.

[Guest guest]

When I was in my mid-teens, my mom and I got involved with a

multi-level-marketing direct sales company called Equinox that sold

supplements, shark liver oil, three-stage water filtration systems, and a

bunch of other stuff. It was actually a really good company, but the owner

got greedy and was being a real bastard to everyone and so a bunch of people

sued him under some stupid " pyramid scheme " law and he lost his empire.

Anyway, the owner told a story about how he got involved with natural health.

He had an inflamed organ, I think it was gall bladder but can't remember.

The doctor's told him they had to take it out, but had to wait for the

inflammation to go down. He was in horrible shape, felt like he was dying,

etc, etc, then ended up in Mexico somehow and got treated with herbal

remedies and his inflammation disappeared. The docs apparently thought that

was the right time to do the operation, but he though, wait a minute, if the

inflammation is *gone* what they hell do I need an operation for???

Chris

In a message dated 3/6/03 6:22:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> >The doctor said that I should have

> >my gallbladder removed sometime in the future.

>

> From what I've read, this procedure is unwarranted practically all the

> time; it seems to be one more medical outrage perpetrated on an unwitting

> populace. I'm not dispensing medical advice, but personally I'd never

ever

> get my gallbladder removed. What might help you as well as dietary

changes

> (avoid sugar and starches, particularly all refined forms of carbs, avoid

> antinutrients, avoid preservatives and additives) is supplementation with

> digestive enzymes (pancreatin) and perhaps even stomach acid in the form

of

> betaine hydrochloride. Something to consider, anyway.

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Bella-

>The doctor said that I should have

>my gallbladder removed sometime in the future.

From what I've read, this procedure is unwarranted practically all the

time; it seems to be one more medical outrage perpetrated on an unwitting

populace. I'm not dispensing medical advice, but personally I'd never ever

get my gallbladder removed. What might help you as well as dietary changes

(avoid sugar and starches, particularly all refined forms of carbs, avoid

antinutrients, avoid preservatives and additives) is supplementation with

digestive enzymes (pancreatin) and perhaps even stomach acid in the form of

betaine hydrochloride. Something to consider, anyway.

-

[Guest guest]

, I know too many people who had this done and about half of

them tell me that it is not worth it as it doesn't solve their

indigestion. To be honest I am not thrilled with having the surgery

as I only get that horrible pain once in a great while, nothing I

can do about it.

>What might help you as well as dietary changes

This alone has made a difference but I still get heartburn just not

as often.

> digestive enzymes (pancreatin) and perhaps even stomach acid in

the form of

> betaine hydrochloride. Where can I buy these enzymes?

Thanks! B.

[Guest guest]

Me too. The flushes are great.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " CountryGirl " <ruthful@...>

< >

Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:00 AM

Subject: Re: Gallstones

> Have you heard of doing liver/gall bladder flushes, which flush the stones

out? I have done a few and seen the buggers first hand. Also got rid of

gall bladder pain that way.

>

> Donna

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: belladormente

>

> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 1:05 PM

> Subject: Gallstones

>

>

> Unfortunately I have gallstones. The doctor said that I should have

> my gallbladder removed sometime in the future. Also I was adviced to

> stay away from acidic and fatty foods. Ok well I know that usually

> when I have horrible pain it just comes and goes out of the blue so

> I can't pinpoint it to anything I ate. I do suffer from heartburn

> but I did notice that diminishing the amount of grains I eat usually

> helps. Another thing I was able to pinpoint was that chocolate gives

> me heartburn(really bad)as well as certain red wines unfortunately I

> never know which ones until after I drink it(only on occasion) Does

> anyone here have similar problems or know of something that would

> help? Thanks in advance B.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Donna, I have heard of gall bladder flushes. I am just scared that

I will end up in a serious amount of pain and would end up getting

my gallbladder removed. Did you experience any pain? The one I read

about was using olive oil, lemon juice and something else that I

can't recall right now. Thanks, B.

> Have you heard of doing liver/gall bladder flushes, which flush

the stones out? I have done a few and seen the buggers first hand.

Also got rid of gall bladder pain that way.

[Guest guest]

Interesting story I will look into some type of alternative

medicine for this. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Hi Kat, where can I find more info on this gallbladder flush.

Thanks, B.

[Guest guest]

Any article by Hulda (do a web search for either Hulda or Liver

Flush), or in her book " A Cure For All Diseases. "

If you do the web search, there are a lot of people who have " perfected " the

basic flush, which is hundreds of years old.

Kat

http://www.katking.com

----- Original Message -----

From: " belladormente " <belladormente@...>

< >

Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:48 PM

Subject: Re: Gallstones

> Hi Kat, where can I find more info on this gallbladder flush.

> Thanks, B.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i was told by my doctor that i needed gall bladder removed asap. i decided to

do a flush instead, which was completed in 1-1/2 days. i found hundreds of pea

green stones, all sizes. i lost weight, and felt clean inside. i will do it

again soon (3 weeks later). if u can tell me this is nonsense, i disagree. i

would be happy to share any info with those interested. thanks, diana

slethnobotanist@... wrote:Hi Christie,

Can't go with you here on this one. First, I have seen a guy, who did have a

stone stuck, do a flush and later pass the stone without pain. Second, one can

" catch " their stones, have them examined, and find out exactly what they are.

Removes all the mystery.

So while I have no doubt that some people passing stones aren't really passing

stones, I see no reason to adopt the establishment view that it is all a bunch

of hooey. Maybe beyond their knowledge and experience, but that doesn't make it

false.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:24:03 -0700

" Christie " <christiekeith@...> wrote:

> >> The malic acid in ACV has the same effect as the citric acid in lemon juice

to

> my knowledge. Have seen cleanses with both or one of the two. <<

>

> The problem is, the " gallstones " passed by people who do the olive oil and

lemon " cleanse " are not gallstones. Have you ever mixed olive oil and lemon

juice? When you do, what do you see after letting it sit for a while?

>

> The olive oil and lemon combined will form a white clump in your stool, which

many people mistakenly believe are gall stones. If the bladder could simply pass

the stones, it would have already done so. My stone got stuck in my bile duct

and I have already explained what that pain was like - not to mention the 4 days

in the hospital with emergency surgery for what can be an outpatient procedure,

with you asleep in your own bed that night.

>

> If you try the olive oil and lemon juice " cleanse, " all you're likely to do is

send your gall bladder into spasms from the fat in the olive oil, and then think

your pain means you passed " stones " when you see clumps in your stool, and it's

all a big delusion. The reason so many people believe it was successful is that

30 percent of all people who have a gall bladder attack never have another, and

just having stones doesn't mean your gall bladder is diseased. In other words,

that emperor is just stark raving naked!

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

>> . i found hundreds of pea green stones, all sizes. <<

Did you possibly have any of them analyzed to see if they were gallstones? That

is what had mentioned, I'd very much like someone who has done this

cleanse to do that, just to see.

>> i lost weight, and felt clean inside. <<

I admit this is a pet peeve of mine, but... were you " dirty " inside before and

if so, did you feel dirty? I have this aversion to the whole cleanse/flush/detox

mentality about our bodies. I believe that given the right support they heal and

maintain themselves and it's not wise to take aggressive approaches to

" cleansing " them.

Just my personal point of view.

Christie

[Guest guest]

i have done a lot of research and spoke to friends of mine before the flush.

one of the friends had severe attack and after doing the flush, she has never

had a problem again. she too was advised by her doctor to have her gall bladder

removed. she swears by it. i don't swear by anything, all i know is it APPEARS

to have been a good thing. i wouldn't say i felt " dirty " inside, i just felt

lighter. who can know anything for sure? diana

Christie <christiekeith@...> wrote:

>> . i found hundreds of pea green stones, all sizes. <<

Did you possibly have any of them analyzed to see if they were gallstones? That

is what had mentioned, I'd very much like someone who has done this

cleanse to do that, just to see.

>> i lost weight, and felt clean inside. <<

I admit this is a pet peeve of mine, but... were you " dirty " inside before and

if so, did you feel dirty? I have this aversion to the whole cleanse/flush/detox

mentality about our bodies. I believe that given the right support they heal and

maintain themselves and it's not wise to take aggressive approaches to

" cleansing " them.

Just my personal point of view.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> one of the friends had severe attack and after doing the flush, she has never

had a problem again. she too was advised by her doctor to have her gall bladder

removed. she swears by it. i don't swear by anything, all i know is it APPEARS

to have been a good thing. <<

I understand, and as I said, if it turns out I'm wrong I shall cheerfully eat my

words! (With a large helping of healthy fat, of course!)

A third of all people who have a gall bladder attack never have another one,

whether they do a cleanse or not. So that alone isn't really definitive.

Christie

[Guest guest]

On the liver/gallbladder flush forum in the curezone some people have had

their

green stones examined and said they where cholesterol and pigment. Probably

that is the debris that gets stuck on the walls of the gallbladder when there is

not

enough movement through it because of the low fat diets we are following. I did

a liver flush and it helps similiar to way a bowel cleanse helps your bowels.

Some people supposedly pass true calcified gallstones, but they are very small.

I am sure true calcified gallstones do not pass with these cleanses.

Re: Re:gallstones

i have done a lot of research and spoke to friends of mine before the flush.

one of the friends had severe attack and after doing the flush, she has never

had a problem again. she too was advised by her doctor to have her gall bladder

removed. she swears by it. i don't swear by anything, all i know is it APPEARS

to have been a good thing. i wouldn't say i felt " dirty " inside, i just felt

lighter. who can know anything for sure? diana

Christie <christiekeith@...> wrote:

>> . i found hundreds of pea green stones, all sizes. <<

Did you possibly have any of them analyzed to see if they were gallstones? That

is what had mentioned, I'd very much like someone who has done this

cleanse to do that, just to see.

>> i lost weight, and felt clean inside. <<

I admit this is a pet peeve of mine, but... were you " dirty " inside before and

if so, did you feel dirty? I have this aversion to the whole cleanse/flush/detox

mentality about our bodies. I believe that given the right support they heal and

maintain themselves and it's not wise to take aggressive approaches to

" cleansing " them.

Just my personal point of view.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>>>>On the liver/gallbladder flush forum in the curezone some people have

had their

green stones examined and said they where cholesterol and pigment. Probably

that is the debris that gets stuck on the walls of the gallbladder when

there is not

enough movement through it because of the low fat diets we are following.

------>alternatively, perhaps it's the body's repair mechanism? maybe when

the body is flooded with a big dose of UNsaturated oil (olive oil used in

the flush), it goes into overdrive to manufacture a lot of cholesterol to

buffer or protect the unsaturated fatty acids from oxidation, and to protect

cell membranes from excess permeability? That's what it does *in* cell

*membranes*, but i don't know if it would do so quickly after ingesting a

big dose of unsaturated oil, or wait until all that unsaturated oil got

incorporated into cell membranes. IF this were the case, then the flush

itself would be the *cause* of the excess cholesterol.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

Re: Re:gallstones

i have done a lot of research and spoke to friends of mine before the flush.

one of the friends had severe attack and after doing the flush, she has

never had a problem again. she too was advised by her doctor to have her

gall bladder removed. she swears by it. i don't swear by anything, all i

know is it APPEARS to have been a good thing. i wouldn't say i felt " dirty "

inside, i just felt lighter. who can know anything for sure? diana

Christie <christiekeith@...> wrote:

>> . i found hundreds of pea green stones, all sizes. <<

Did you possibly have any of them analyzed to see if they were gallstones?

That is what had mentioned, I'd very much like someone who has done

this cleanse to do that, just to see.

>> i lost weight, and felt clean inside. <<

I admit this is a pet peeve of mine, but... were you " dirty " inside before

and if so, did you feel dirty? I have this aversion to the whole

cleanse/flush/detox mentality about our bodies. I believe that given the

right support they heal and maintain themselves and it's not wise to take

aggressive approaches to " cleansing " them.

Just my personal point of view.

Christie

[Guest guest]

Maybe it is the pigment on the walls of the gallbladder that is causing the

problems then.

There seems there must be a reason that people feel better after doing these

flushes.

Maybe the cholesterol helps pull the pigment from the walls and open up the

gallbladder more

so that bile can pass more easily.

I hear a high fat diet will fix your gallbladder problems, but if you have

trouble with fats and would

like to fix things a little quicker. I have only done 2 flushes, but I will

continue to try more

if it will help me. I still get sick from eating cream or too much butter.

Cultured butter is a little better

but not that much. When I am not constipated everything I produce floats from

all the fat in my

stool. I have no gallbladder pain. I just don't digest fats very well and feel

hungry all the time on this

low carb diets even with eating as much fat as I can handle without getting sick

to my stomach.

Re: Re:gallstones

i have done a lot of research and spoke to friends of mine before the flush.

one of the friends had severe attack and after doing the flush, she has

never had a problem again. she too was advised by her doctor to have her

gall bladder removed. she swears by it. i don't swear by anything, all i

know is it APPEARS to have been a good thing. i wouldn't say i felt " dirty "

inside, i just felt lighter. who can know anything for sure? diana

Christie <christiekeith@...> wrote:

>> . i found hundreds of pea green stones, all sizes. <<

Did you possibly have any of them analyzed to see if they were gallstones?

That is what had mentioned, I'd very much like someone who has done

this cleanse to do that, just to see.

>> i lost weight, and felt clean inside. <<

I admit this is a pet peeve of mine, but... were you " dirty " inside before

and if so, did you feel dirty? I have this aversion to the whole

cleanse/flush/detox mentality about our bodies. I believe that given the

right support they heal and maintain themselves and it's not wise to take

aggressive approaches to " cleansing " them.

Just my personal point of view.

Christie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/5/03 12:56:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

diane.c.jewett@... writes:

> When I am not constipated everything I produce floats from all the fat in

> my

> stool. I have no gallbladder pain. I just don't digest fats very well and

> feel hungry all the time on this

> low carb diets even with eating as much fat as I can handle without getting

> sick to my stomach.

Diane,

I think this is a relatively serious, though not immediate or threatening,

problem and I highly suggest you take as many digestive enzymes as you need

(particularly ones with HCl, lipase, and ox bile) to eliminate this problem.

I'll add that I had gut problems for a month producing fatty stools and my

fatty stools were eliminated through a single day of taking high-dose Primal

Defense.

Chris

[Guest guest]

My friend went on the Craig diet and then shortly after losing

the weight she wanted she started having terrible pains. The doctor

told her she needed her gallbladder removed and confirmed that the

Craig diet is what probably caused her condition--a very low

fat diet consisting entirely of crappy, high-carb, processed foods

plus lots of salads with low fat dressing.

Yet another reason to avoid SALFD--Standard American Low Fat Diets.

The sad ending to this story is that while I was on vacation, she

went ahead and had the operation, despite my urging she at least get

a second opinion, explore some of the traditional alternatives, etc.

I had criticized her choice of diet from the outset. But what can you

say to someone who actually follows such nonsense to the letter

without cheating and actually loses weight? Seems to me, people who

want to lose weight above all can be pretty irrational and lose their

sense of self-preservation.

After the operation, she apologized to me for doubting me on the

Craig business. But, I don't have much more to say to her now

not having any post-gallbladder removal protocol other than that I

believe that she can still safely use and enjoy coconut oil, but that

other fats are now definitely and permanently a problem in large

doses. We're still friends, but I try to steer the conversation away

from food, which for me, is really hard! So, if someone here knows

safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person,

I would appreciate it.

in Berkeley

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Re. diet after gall bladder removal, see www.ahoa.org.au , click on User

Forum and search on gall bladder (two words). This is a high fat diet that

apparently is fine for people with gall bladder problems or no gall bladder.

>>But what can you say to someone who actually follows such nonsense to

the letter

without cheating and actually loses weight? <<

That it's possible to lose weight by eating grass, too.. and look at all

the chlorophyl and phytonutrients it contains.. is there maybe a logical

fallacy lurking somewhere? ;-)

-