Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 IIRC, the stones I saw were multi-colored. On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:17:04 -0400 " Jewett, Diane C " <diane.c.jewett@...> wrote: > On the liver/gallbladder flush forum in the curezone some people have had their > green stones examined and said they where cholesterol and pigment. Probably > that is the debris that gets stuck on the walls of the gallbladder when there is not > enough movement through it because of the low fat diets we are following. I did > a liver flush and it helps similiar to way a bowel cleanse helps your bowels. > Some people supposedly pass true calcified gallstones, but they are very small. > I am sure true calcified gallstones do not pass with these cleanses. > > > Re: Re:gallstones > > > i have done a lot of research and spoke to friends of mine before the flush. one of the friends had severe attack and after doing the flush, she has never had a problem again. she too was advised by her doctor to have her gall bladder removed. she swears by it. i don't swear by anything, all i know is it APPEARS to have been a good thing. i wouldn't say i felt " dirty " inside, i just felt lighter. who can know anything for sure? diana > > Christie <christiekeith@...> wrote: > >> . i found hundreds of pea green stones, all sizes. << > > Did you possibly have any of them analyzed to see if they were gallstones? That is what had mentioned, I'd very much like someone who has done this cleanse to do that, just to see. > > >> i lost weight, and felt clean inside. << > > I admit this is a pet peeve of mine, but... were you " dirty " inside before and if so, did you feel dirty? I have this aversion to the whole cleanse/flush/detox mentality about our bodies. I believe that given the right support they heal and maintain themselves and it's not wise to take aggressive approaches to " cleansing " them. > > Just my personal point of view. > > Christie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:35:33 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > > ------>alternatively, perhaps it's the body's repair mechanism? maybe when > the body is flooded with a big dose of UNsaturated oil (olive oil used in > the flush), it goes into overdrive to manufacture a lot of cholesterol to > buffer or protect the unsaturated fatty acids from oxidation, and to protect > cell membranes from excess permeability? That's what it does *in* cell > *membranes*, but i don't know if it would do so quickly after ingesting a > big dose of unsaturated oil, or wait until all that unsaturated oil got > incorporated into cell membranes. IF this were the case, then the flush > itself would be the *cause* of the excess cholesterol. Hi Suze, the last few times I did a flush, I used mostly coconut oil. I thought this would be an upgrade over the standard procedure. Plus most olive oil that people use is junk. It should be noted that the olive oil flush is only one type of flush. There are some pretty " harsh " flushes out there. I have an interview of an MD who used them in helping to treat her patients with cancer. I will see if I can find it. I think it might even have some pictures of stones from some of her patients. I believe she had them in a jar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 >> But, I don't have much more to say to her now not having any post-gallbladder removal protocol other than that I believe that she can still safely use and enjoy coconut oil, but that other fats are now definitely and permanently a problem in large doses. << I had my gall bladder out years ago, I have no trouble with fats of any kind and am currently on the third month of a diet that is around 70 percent of its calories from fat. Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 >So, if someone here knows >safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person, >I would appreciate it. : I do empathize with the problem ... someone I know had a stomach-stapling operation. No stomach left at all, can only eat a few bites. He's lost 100 lbs, but ... what do you say? Esp. when a large chunk of your life revolves around eating well? And how come the doctors will just DO that? -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 <<<<< I'll add that I had gut problems for a month producing fatty stools and my fatty stools were eliminated through a single day of taking high-dose Primal Defense. >>>>>> How high a dose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Did you get good results with the coconut oil as compared to the olive? Re: Re:gallstones On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:35:33 -0400 " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > > ------>alternatively, perhaps it's the body's repair mechanism? maybe when > the body is flooded with a big dose of UNsaturated oil (olive oil used in > the flush), it goes into overdrive to manufacture a lot of cholesterol to > buffer or protect the unsaturated fatty acids from oxidation, and to protect > cell membranes from excess permeability? That's what it does *in* cell > *membranes*, but i don't know if it would do so quickly after ingesting a > big dose of unsaturated oil, or wait until all that unsaturated oil got > incorporated into cell membranes. IF this were the case, then the flush > itself would be the *cause* of the excess cholesterol. Hi Suze, the last few times I did a flush, I used mostly coconut oil. I thought this would be an upgrade over the standard procedure. Plus most olive oil that people use is junk. It should be noted that the olive oil flush is only one type of flush. There are some pretty " harsh " flushes out there. I have an interview of an MD who used them in helping to treat her patients with cancer. I will see if I can find it. I think it might even have some pictures of stones from some of her patients. I believe she had them in a jar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:12:15 -0400 " Jewett, Diane C " <diane.c.jewett@...> wrote: > Did you get good results with the coconut oil as compared to the olive? > Yes. But I wasn't doing a liver/gallbladder flush for the purpose of removing stones. It was more for prophylactic purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 My dad had his gall bladder removed after several years on statin (cholesterol-reducing) 'medication'. I think there is a connection. I know what you mean of the akwardness of talking about diet if you are into high-fat but for that particular person it may no longer be best. > My friend went on the Craig diet and then shortly after losing > the weight she wanted she started having terrible pains. The doctor > told her she needed her gallbladder removed and confirmed that the > Craig diet is what probably caused her condition--a very low > fat diet consisting entirely of crappy, high-carb, processed foods > plus lots of salads with low fat dressing. > > Yet another reason to avoid SALFD--Standard American Low Fat Diets. > > The sad ending to this story is that while I was on vacation, she > went ahead and had the operation, despite my urging she at least get > a second opinion, explore some of the traditional alternatives, etc. > I had criticized her choice of diet from the outset. But what can you > say to someone who actually follows such nonsense to the letter > without cheating and actually loses weight? Seems to me, people who > want to lose weight above all can be pretty irrational and lose their > sense of self-preservation. > > After the operation, she apologized to me for doubting me on the > Craig business. But, I don't have much more to say to her now > not having any post-gallbladder removal protocol other than that I > believe that she can still safely use and enjoy coconut oil, but that > other fats are now definitely and permanently a problem in large > doses. We're still friends, but I try to steer the conversation away > from food, which for me, is really hard! So, if someone here knows > safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person, > I would appreciate it. > > in Berkeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Heidi, My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she still won't listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the surgery but if I bring it up she starts pressuring me to get it done - on me! (she only stopped because I got angry and told her I wouldn't talk to her anymore). My dad's on the pressure too. Dawn > > >So, if someone here knows > >safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person, > > I would appreciate it. > > : > > I do empathize with the problem ... someone I know had a > stomach-stapling operation. No stomach left at all, can only eat a few > bites. He's lost 100 lbs, but ... what do you say? Esp. when a large > chunk of your life revolves around eating well? And how come the > doctors will just DO that? > > -- Heidi email: lady_blaidd@... Brenin Draig Web Design www.BreninDraig.com *************************************** Pendraig - Anatolian Shepherds, Great Danes and Kinder Goats www.Pendraig.us Weston A Price Foundation - Austin, TX Chapter http://www.BreninDraig.com/WAPAustin/ Copyright c 2002 Dawn Luttrall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Dawn, You have got to stop your mom. There are so many complications. I friend's mom got it done after I met her. She feels like the food is always stuck in her esophagus and has to throw up just about every meal she eats to relieve the feeling. Just about the only thing she can keep down are liquids, but not all. She still eats junk foods, mainly in the way of soft drinks and ice cream and soft candy. She has developed a hernia from all the vomiting and must have another operation for that. And there are no guarantees she won't get another hernia, if she continues vomiting. You can just imagine what this is doing to her teeth. She has lost about 90 pds. but is on her way to being malnourished, weak, fatigued and very sick. I know it works for many people, but it sure didn't work for her. And it is non reversible!!! Maybe you could show this to your mom. Jafa blaidd2@... wrote: Heidi, My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she still won't listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the surgery but if I bring it up she starts pressuring me to get it done - on me! (she only stopped because I got angry and told her I wouldn't talk to her anymore). My dad's on the pressure too. Dawn > > >So, if someone here knows > >safe food subjects to discuss with a post-gallbladder removal person, > > I would appreciate it. > > : > > I do empathize with the problem ... someone I know had a > stomach-stapling operation. No stomach left at all, can only eat a few > bites. He's lost 100 lbs, but ... what do you say? Esp. when a large > chunk of your life revolves around eating well? And how come the > doctors will just DO that? > > -- Heidi email: lady_blaidd@... Brenin Draig Web Design www.BreninDraig.com *************************************** Pendraig - Anatolian Shepherds, Great Danes and Kinder Goats www.Pendraig.us Weston A Price Foundation - Austin, TX Chapter http://www.BreninDraig.com/WAPAustin/ Copyright c 2002 Dawn Luttrall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Jafa, I don't know what to do. Maybe I should explain more. My mom is a bit... well, mentally embalanced. And when I freak her out, by sending her posts like yours, she takes it out on my Dad, who then takes it out on me... and well, argh. My only hope is that my diet convinces her that it CAN be done without surgery but this isn't a quick weight loss plan. =( I can feel my clothes are loser but I have no numbers to give her, no statistics, no scientific studies... not that she'd listen. She'll stay mad at me for months, and I am not exaggerating and Dad will be angry with me for making his life miserable. I'm a VERY poor college kid, and couldn't even afford real groceries. I was scraping by but still having to fill up on carbs because we couldn't afford much protein or veggies. ($40 a week for groceries for 2 people). My fiance is finally getting a promotion with a real paycheck so things are going to be better, and my father helped me start my diet early by giving me money every week and paying for supplements/probiotics/kombucha mushroom etc. And thanks to some nice people (Dom!) I got my kefir grains for free, well, I'll pay him back later. Back to my mom, she's convinced she's dying (and well she is). She's 48, has type II diabetes with her blood sugar out of control (because she binges on sugar and carbs), drinks diet cokes like they were water, aprox 100 ounces or more a day... which of course makes her eye site worse - which she thinks is ALL the diabetes - AND makes her crave carbs. So, I could lose her in a year if she doesn't do something, or in 5 to 10 years if she does th gastric bypass. Either way, I'll feel responsible. So, anyone have any bright ideas? =( I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her every site like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on this) has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that, Dawn. " " I can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister calls me a fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all I've shown her). What's a daughter to do?? Dawn > Dawn, > > You have got to stop your mom. There are so many complications. I > friend's mom got it done after I met her. She feels like the food is > always stuck in her esophagus and has to throw up just about every > meal she eats to relieve the feeling. Just about the only thing she > can keep down are liquids, but not all. She still eats junk foods, > mainly in the way of soft drinks and ice cream and soft candy. She > has developed a hernia from all the vomiting and must have another > operation for that. And there are no guarantees she won't get another > hernia, if she continues vomiting. You can just imagine what this is > doing to her teeth. She has lost about 90 pds. but is on her way to > being malnourished, weak, fatigued and very sick. > > I know it works for many people, but it sure didn't work for her. And > it is non reversible!!! Maybe you could show this to your mom. > > Jafa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 >Heidi, > >My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I >finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she still won't >listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the surgery but if I bring it >up she starts pressuring me to get it done - on me! (she only stopped >because I got angry and told her I wouldn't talk to her anymore). My >dad's on the pressure too. > >Dawn Gads, I wish I knew some good answers. I've seen so many people die and get ruined needlessly. Starting with my ex-mother-in-law who smoked a pack a day, but " when my time comes, it comes " . Her time did NOT have to come via lung cancer! I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily. Like, humans are designed to need surgery? There was one great website (that no longer exists, unfortunately) from a celiac woman who refused to get her gall bladder out -- she went GF (and probably on a high-fat low-carb diet?) and it healed. Gall bladder damage is very often related to upper-gut damage. One doc thinks it is because the outlet gets blocked by inflammation, or lack of the " gall bladder emptying " chemical. There are likely other causes, but in at least ONE circumstance (gluten intolerance) the gall bladder is easily " saveable " . http://members.shaw.ca/oldsite/gall_bladder_disease.htm http://www.celiac.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=121 & p_catid= & sid=91\ hH9H0m8H6A82T-32103275074.d5 (Same article, better format) Now, given the low level of clinical suspicion for celiac disease, I anticipate the suggestion that absent gall bladder emptying, atresia, and gall stones might occur in the absence of celiac disease. I did another Medline search, and I can't find a single study that has tested atresia patients or gallstone patients for celiac disease. My answer to the suggestion that gall bladder disease may occur in the absence of celiac disease is that there is no evidence to support such a contention. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Just realized how unclear/confusing I was. She is going to get gastric bypass, to lose weight and is pressuring me to do the same via guilt trips. =) Dawn > > >Heidi, > > > >My mom is getting it done and nothing I say or do can stop her. =( I > > finally got on my low carb diet and I'm losing weight... but she > >still won't listen. And I can tell she's secretly terrified of the > >surgery but if I bring it up she starts pressuring me to get it done > >- on me! (she only stopped because I got angry and told her I > >wouldn't talk to her anymore). My dad's on the pressure too. > > > >Dawn > > Gads, I wish I knew some good answers. I've seen so many people die > and get ruined needlessly. Starting with my ex-mother-in-law who > smoked a pack a day, but " when my time comes, it comes " . Her time did > NOT have to come via lung cancer! > > I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily. Like, humans are > designed to need surgery? There was one great website (that no longer > exists, unfortunately) from a celiac woman who refused to get her gall > bladder out -- she went GF (and probably on a high-fat low-carb diet?) > and it healed. Gall bladder damage is very often related to upper-gut > damage. One doc thinks it is because the outlet gets blocked by > inflammation, or lack of the " gall bladder emptying " chemical. There > are likely other causes, but in at least ONE circumstance (gluten > intolerance) the gall bladder is easily " saveable " . > > http://members.shaw.ca/oldsite/gall_bladder_disease.htm > > http://www.celiac.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=121 & p_cat > id= & sid=91hH9H0m8H6A82T-32103275074.d5 > > (Same article, better format) > > Now, given the low level of clinical suspicion for celiac disease, I > anticipate the suggestion that absent gall bladder emptying, atresia, > and gall stones might occur in the absence of celiac disease. I did > another Medline search, and I can't find a single study that has > tested atresia patients or gallstone patients for celiac disease. My > answer to the suggestion that gall bladder disease may occur in the > absence of celiac disease is that there is no evidence to support such > a contention. > > > -- Heidi > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 >>>>>I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her every site like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on this) has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that, Dawn. " " I can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister calls me a fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all I've shown her). ------>i don't have any advice to offer dawn, i just want to say i'm sorry for what you're experiencing with your family. it made me so sad to read this. you are not a freak, you are not a fanatic, you are probably the most sane person in your family (absolutely no disrespect to them!). and you are brave to forge ahead with what you know is right despite their apathy towards their own health and lack of interest in your help. it sounds like the best way to reach them (IF they are reachable) is by improving your own health and being an *example* of the nutritional principles that you are educating them about. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Hi Folks... There is the psychological side of all this to consider. I am not a psychologist it is my only observations of the past. We all have to hit bottom at some point, the reason why is individual to everybody as well as the means of how they achieve it. I have seen people hit bottom with the bottle, anorexia, bolemia, tragic business decisions, endless horrible relationships, cancer, multiple operations ect..... I do think the current state of nutrition in this country has an effect on people to the extent we can no longer listen to our own bodies and know what is good for ourselves yet our bodies will do its best to inform us even if it has to go under the knife to do so. Yes some never hear it and drop through the bottom of this existence, I surely believe they will get the picture on the other side. All I can say is I know how hard it is to deal with the sight of your own family members disintegrate before your eyes no matter how much you tell them, or offer them an alternative. They can not see it and will not see it until there own beliefs have been verified from the bottom of the pit. Just be there when they return, or wish them well if they don't, those at the bottom often reach, for those closest when approaching it , don't get caught yourself. I don't mean to sound cold, it is how I see it. Tim blaidd2@... wrote: > Jafa, > > I don't know what to do. Maybe I should explain more. > > My mom is a bit... well, mentally embalanced. And when I freak her > out, > by sending her posts like yours, she takes it out on my Dad, who then > takes it out on me... and well, argh. My only hope is that my diet > convinces her that it CAN be done without surgery but this isn't a > quick > weight loss plan. =( I can feel my clothes are loser but I have no > numbers to give her, no statistics, no scientific studies... not that > she'd > listen. She'll stay mad at me for months, and I am not exaggerating > and > Dad will be angry with me for making his life miserable. > > I'm a VERY poor college kid, and couldn't even afford real groceries. > I > was scraping by but still having to fill up on carbs because we > couldn't > afford much protein or veggies. ($40 a week for groceries for 2 > people). > My fiance is finally getting a promotion with a real paycheck so > things are > going to be better, and my father helped me start my diet early by > giving > me money every week and paying for supplements/probiotics/kombucha > mushroom etc. And thanks to some nice people (Dom!) I got my kefir > grains for free, well, I'll pay him back later. > > Back to my mom, she's convinced she's dying (and well she is). She's > 48, has type II diabetes with her blood sugar out of control (because > she > binges on sugar and carbs), drinks diet cokes like they were water, > aprox > 100 ounces or more a day... which of course makes her eye site worse - > > which she thinks is ALL the diabetes - AND makes her crave carbs. So, > I > could lose her in a year if she doesn't do something, or in 5 to 10 > years if > she does th gastric bypass. Either way, I'll feel responsible. So, > anyone > have any bright ideas? =( > > I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her every > site > like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on > this) > has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that, > Dawn. " " I > can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister calls > me a > fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all I've > shown > her). > > What's a daughter to do?? > > Dawn > > > Dawn, > > > > You have got to stop your mom. There are so many complications. I > > friend's mom got it done after I met her. She feels like the food > is > > always stuck in her esophagus and has to throw up just about every > > meal she eats to relieve the feeling. Just about the only thing she > > > can keep down are liquids, but not all. She still eats junk foods, > > mainly in the way of soft drinks and ice cream and soft candy. She > > has developed a hernia from all the vomiting and must have another > > operation for that. And there are no guarantees she won't get > another > > hernia, if she continues vomiting. You can just imagine what this > is > > doing to her teeth. She has lost about 90 pds. but is on her way > to > > being malnourished, weak, fatigued and very sick. > > > > I know it works for many people, but it sure didn't work for her. > And > > it is non reversible!!! Maybe you could show this to your mom. > > > > Jafa > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 >Just realized how unclear/confusing I was. > >She is going to get gastric bypass, to lose weight and is pressuring me to >do the same via guilt trips. =) > >Dawn Ah. Well, then, we'll pressure you the other way: DON'T DON'T DON'T. If you need more pressure, just ask! Your Mom has to make her own decisions, and if she is that addicted, it is a problem. I feel for you, and her ... your best bet though, is taking really, really good care of yourself, both as an example (as others have said) and so you can be there for her. If you stick to a high-protein low-carb diet you are likely to be in better shape psychologically too, and with all that stress, you'll need it! I know it is really difficult getting good food on a budget, I lived off very little money for a long time. People in our society on a budget tend to go for carbs, carbs, carbs -- my friends were all really big into potato chips, for some reason, though really, they aren't very cheap. I can offer one little piece of advice that helped me: get a membership to a Costco, if you have one nearby. They don't have organic stuff, but at least you can live without so many carbs. I can buy beef shoulder there for $1.29/lb (boneless) and just cut it up into big roasts. Carrots are $2.99 for a huge bag (about 10 lbs, I think). Broccoli is about $4 for a huge bag, and that is just the nice tops, no stems. A 20-lb roast lasts a LONG time and costs about $30. When I was really, really broke I did most of my shopping in bulk, cut it up into smaller pieces and froze it in my little freezer. I lived off vegies and meats, mostly, and pasta (unfortunately, but I admit it!). Anyway, you can do your low-carb diet affordably if you shop wholesale. Then when you get richer stick to the same diet, but organic. First thing you do is buy a big chest freezer and get grass-fed beef from the farmer, wholesale, which is also darn cheap in the long run but you have to have the outlay money to begin with, which is a challenge. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Dawn, I really feel for you. But I am also diabetic, and 50 years old. Let me tell you, your mom's problems are not YOUR fault. A diabetic has to take control of her disease herself. I used to drink tons of diet coke too. I got myself off it by drinking naturally sparkling mineral water with whey and lemon juice because it tastes good to me (I love the bubbles!) But the point is, a person has to take responsibility for her own care. I have to be constantly educating myself because I can't even trust my doctor (who wants me to take Lipitor although my cholesterol is below 240.) I know many diabetics who blame their poor health on their families, their doctors, anyone but themselves. Having diabetes is beyond one's control. But what IS within the diabetic's control is their choices of food and lifestyle. I have had insulin-dependent diabetes for ten years, and still have no complications and my blood sugar is (mostly) under good control, but I have to watch it every single day. That's just the reality of it. I know you would love to get your mother to take better care of herself, but ultimately you can't change another person's ways, no matter how close you are to them. You can only present the information and hope it is taken seriously. Don't be too hard on yourself. And BTW, I do know several people who have had gall bladders removed -- always because they went on non-fat or Optifast diets -- but they are all doing pretty well. I'm not saying it's the best choice, it certainly is not in my opinion, but usually it isn't life threatening. Sorry this is so long. Ann > Jafa, > > I don't know what to do. Maybe I should explain more. > > My mom is a bit... well, mentally embalanced. And when I freak her out, > by sending her posts like yours, she takes it out on my Dad, who then > takes it out on me... and well, argh. My only hope is that my diet > convinces her that it CAN be done without surgery but this isn't a quick > weight loss plan. =( I can feel my clothes are loser but I have no > numbers to give her, no statistics, no scientific studies... not that she'd > listen. She'll stay mad at me for months, and I am not exaggerating and > Dad will be angry with me for making his life miserable. > > I'm a VERY poor college kid, and couldn't even afford real groceries. I > was scraping by but still having to fill up on carbs because we couldn't > afford much protein or veggies. ($40 a week for groceries for 2 people). > My fiance is finally getting a promotion with a real paycheck so things are > going to be better, and my father helped me start my diet early by giving > me money every week and paying for supplements/probiotics/kombucha > mushroom etc. And thanks to some nice people (Dom!) I got my kefir > grains for free, well, I'll pay him back later. > > Back to my mom, she's convinced she's dying (and well she is). She's > 48, has type II diabetes with her blood sugar out of control (because she > binges on sugar and carbs), drinks diet cokes like they were water, aprox > 100 ounces or more a day... which of course makes her eye site worse - > which she thinks is ALL the diabetes - AND makes her crave carbs. So, I > could lose her in a year if she doesn't do something, or in 5 to 10 years if > she does th gastric bypass. Either way, I'll feel responsible. So, anyone > have any bright ideas? =( > > I've sent her every site on aspartame I can, nothing. Sent her every site > like WAP, and TONS of other stuff my friend (who got me started on this) > has sent me over the last few years... nothing. " I can't do that, Dawn. " " I > can't give up soda " , I can't I can't I can't. And now my sister calls me a > fanatic (she's like my mom, and now drinking soy milk after all I've shown > her). > > What's a daughter to do?? > > Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Thank you, it does help some. Unfortunately I was upset and didn't make myself clear though, it's worse then a gall bladder removal, she's doing gastric bypass. You know, they staple her stomach to the size of a tiny pouch (the size of her thumb i think?) so she can starve herself? This is also what she has been pushing me to do to myself. Here's a quote, " I don't want to lose my oldest daughter in the next two years to her weight problem " - something like that. Maybe it was drop dead. Ah well, big sigh. Tim's also right and (my fiance) tells me this all the time, I can't save the world, he says, and I need to realize that first with my family. I am hoping my sister will join this list but she may not. If she does she may tattle on me. *grin* Worth the risk for the education she can get here. Maybe it is so hard because I am still pretty young? 25, does dealing with your parents get any easier? Dawn > Dawn, > I really feel for you. But I am also diabetic, and 50 years old. Let > me tell you, your mom's problems are not YOUR fault. A diabetic has > to take control of her disease herself. I used to drink tons of diet > coke too. I got myself off it by drinking naturally sparkling mineral > water with whey and lemon juice because it tastes good to me (I love > the bubbles!) But the point is, a person has to take responsibility > for her own care. I have to be constantly educating myself because I > can't even trust my doctor (who wants me to take Lipitor although my > cholesterol is below 240.) > > I know many diabetics who blame their poor health on their families, > their doctors, anyone but themselves. Having diabetes is beyond one's > control. But what IS within the diabetic's control is their choices > of food and lifestyle. I have had insulin-dependent diabetes for ten > years, and still have no complications and my blood sugar is (mostly) > under good control, but I have to watch it every single day. That's > just the reality of it. > > I know you would love to get your mother to take better care of > herself, but ultimately you can't change another person's ways, no > matter how close you are to them. You can only present the > information and hope it is taken seriously. > > Don't be too hard on yourself. And BTW, I do know several people who > have had gall bladders removed -- always because they went on non-fat > or Optifast diets -- but they are all doing pretty well. I'm not > saying it's the best choice, it certainly is not in my opinion, but > usually it isn't life threatening. Sorry this is so long. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 My next door neighbor had the gastric bypass last year and lost tons of weight. But, she still eats poorly, albeit less quantity. She has stopped losing weight now and has even regained some. If your mom has the surgery but can't change her way of eating she is just shooting her self in the foot. If she can change her diet then why have surgery? Kind of a catch-22 for her. Sometimes when you want to give someone info. You find they don't want to hear it from you (family politics and powerplays intrude). Maybe a friend she trusts can be used as a conduit for this info. Good luck Amy Re: Re: gallstones >Just realized how unclear/confusing I was. > >She is going to get gastric bypass, to lose weight and is pressuring me to >do the same via guilt trips. =) > >Dawn Ah. Well, then, we'll pressure you the other way: DON'T DON'T DON'T. If you need more pressure, just ask! Your Mom has to make her own decisions, and if she is that addicted, it is a problem. I feel for you, and her ... your best bet though, is taking really, really good care of yourself, both as an example (as others have said) and so you can be there for her. If you stick to a high-protein low-carb diet you are likely to be in better shape psychologically too, and with all that stress, you'll need it! I know it is really difficult getting good food on a budget, I lived off very little money for a long time. People in our society on a budget tend to go for carbs, carbs, carbs -- my friends were all really big into potato chips, for some reason, though really, they aren't very cheap. I can offer one little piece of advice that helped me: get a membership to a Costco, if you have one nearby. They don't have organic stuff, but at least you can live without so many carbs. I can buy beef shoulder there for $1.29/lb (boneless) and just cut it up into big roasts. Carrots are $2.99 for a huge bag (about 10 lbs, I think). Broccoli is about $4 for a huge bag, and that is just the nice tops, no stems. A 20-lb roast lasts a LONG time and costs about $30. When I was really, really broke I did most of my shopping in bulk, cut it up into smaller pieces and froze it in my little freezer. I lived off vegies and meats, mostly, and pasta (unfortunately, but I admit it!). Anyway, you can do your low-carb diet affordably if you shop wholesale. Then when you get richer stick to the same diet, but organic. First thing you do is buy a big chest freezer and get grass-fed beef from the farmer, wholesale, which is also darn cheap in the long run but you have to have the outlay money to begin with, which is a challenge. -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 > > Maybe it is so hard because I am still pretty young? 25, does dealing with > your parents get any easier? > > Dawn Well, not to be depressing, but it doesn't seem to get easier! Although my 75 year old parents eat pretty well (my mom does cook from scratch, home canning and preserving, and buys organic whenever possible), and they even eat more raw stuff than I do (they eat sashimi, steak tartare, raw fish), still, I can't convince my mother to stop taking Lipitor. I really hate the way the medical community prescribe Lipitor to just about everybody over the age of 40. My sister, my brother in law, and my mother are all on it, and I would be too if I listened to my doctor. Bleaggh! It can cause liver damage, and since I am currently watching my ex-husband at death's door waiting for a liver transplant, that is far more scary to me than the unlikely chance that cholesterol causes heart disease. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 >>> Bleaggh! It can cause liver damage, and since I am currently watching my ex-husband at death's door waiting for a liver transplant, that is far more scary to me than the unlikely chance that cholesterol causes heart disease. ----->ann, cholesterol does NOT cause heart disease. Lipitor, on the other hand, may...and that's not to mention its other " side " effects. see below. " Statin Drugs & Memory Loss Duane Graveline, MD, MPH, a retired family doctor and former NASA scientist/astronaut, recounted his own hair-raising experience taking the popular statin drug Lipitor for only six weeks. Soon after he went for a walk, Dr. Graveline was found wandering, confused, and reluctant to enter his own home because he didn't recognize it or remember his wife's name. Six hours later--after being examined by a neurologist and undergoing an MRI--he came to his senses. Transient global amnesia (TGA) was diagnosed. Neither he nor his physician suspected Lipitor, so Dr. Graveline was restarted on one-half the previous dose. Again, at six weeks, the TGA returned. This time, he regressed to his teen-age years with no memory for his time in college, medical school, or the recent past. " Many decades of my life were obliterated, " he said. " The diagnosis was TGA: cause unknown. " To verify his growing suspicion that Lipitor might be the cause, Dr. Graveline wrote to Joe and Graedon, the husband and wife team that writes the syndicated column called The People's Pharmacy, which specializes in warning the public about drug side effects. The Graedons asked for permission to print his letter in their column, and once it appeared, hundreds of people wrote in to say they, too, had experienced severe memory loss while on Lipitor. " Patients are reluctant to report amnesia, or they attribute the symptoms to old age or early Alzheimer's, " explained Dr. Graveline. " And doctors are reluctant to see that the drug they prescribed was the cause. " Still, the official word on Lipitor is that memory loss is not a statin side effect. " Thousands of cases of memory dysfunction have been reported to the FDA's Medwatch program, " he said, " but after two years, the agency still hasn't acted. And most practicing physicians are unaware of the problem. " Lipitor is not the only statin linked to this side effect, observed Dr. Graveline. A reporter pointed out to that FDA-required trials do not report memory loss in people taking statins. An explanation was offered by M. Kauffman, PhD, research professor of chemistry and biochemistry at the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia. " In drug trials, the pharmaceutical companies often divide similar adverse effects into six or seven different categories to keep the scarier side effects under 1%. " To illustrate his point, Dr. Kauffman said that amnesia could be divided into confusion, memory loss, senility, and cognitive impairment. There is general acknowledgment, however, that muscle pain, weakness, fatigue, peripheral neuropathy, and rhabdomyolysis, a potentially fatal muscle disease, are statin side effects, though they are thought to be rare. " http://www.medicalconsumers.org/pages/cholesterol_skeptics.html Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Heidi- It seems like a simple, straight-forward answer to their problems, and it fits their ideas of the world around them -- your car breaks down, you take it to a mechanic; your washing machine craps out on you, you get it serviced; etc. >I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 >Heidi- > >It seems like a simple, straight-forward answer to their problems, and it >fits their ideas of the world around them -- your car breaks down, you take >it to a mechanic; your washing machine craps out on you, you get it >serviced; etc. > >>I don't know why people opt for surgery so readily. > >- Yes, this is true. Actually I was the same, just went to the doctor all the time. Actually the idea of having " specialists " is a good one -- like we've said before, a person should NOT have to spend half their life researching stuff to solve what could be a simple issue. Our society is just kind of dysfunctional in that respect. Weight loss especially -- there are SO MANY different theories. According to " change theory " , when a bunch of theories proliferate like this, it means that the old system isn't working and people are experimenting to find " the new paradigm " . So stomach stapling is one experiment. In theory, one of the new paradigms will prove most effective and win out, and that will be the paradigm for the near future. So I should be more philisophical ... -- Heidi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 , Christie Thanks for the tips. Heidi, Thanks for the sympathy. If anyone knows of any " official " looking sites about how someone without a gallbladder can still eat a lot of fat, I'd appreciate it. I think it will take more than " someone on this user group said... " to counteract The Doctor's Advice (said with a certain amount of gravity. in Berkeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 >> If anyone knows of any " official " looking sites about how someone without a gallbladder can still eat a lot of fat, I'd appreciate it. I think it will take more than " someone on this user group said... " to counteract The Doctor's Advice (said with a certain amount of gravity. << You know, my surgeon literally told me to eat all the fat I wanted. Where exactly is this idea coming from, that if you have no gall bladder you can't eat fat? My mom had hers out just last fall and no one said anything to her about not eating fat either. Christie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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