Introduction

December 6, 1999

said:

> I hope to be able to intertwine our programs for maximum language

training.

> The Lovaas format gives him the language, hopefully the S/P technique will

> help him understand and use the language spontaneously/functionally.

Dear and others, I recently watched a workshop of Dr. Carbone's

and the family was telling him that they were unsure if the child was

" comprehending " what was being taught. How Dr. Carbone responded really

made since to me...

He said: (not an exact quote!!) Do not view what we teach cognitively(in

our heads) but view it behaviorally (skills we need in life). As a

behavioralist, it is easier to view teaching as a set of behaviors that need

to be taught to be successful in life, instead of seeing if the child is

getting the cognitive understanding and concept meaning of a skill being

taught.

If you view things behaviorally, you need to think about how many skills you

are required to do in a classroom at one time (listening, looking, doing,

listening more, etc.).

Cognitive problems can not be taught. But good behavior teaching will

improve cognitive understanding.

In all actuality, if the problem is in the cognitive understanding, it is

the child's problem (behavioralist do not like to view things in this

light). If it is viewed in a functional behavioral aspect, the problem can

be solved in the teaching itself.

I do not want to confuse the issue but I would like the listers here to

understand that through our teaching and technique, cognitive abilities will

improve. Trying to figure out what is going on in that little head will

only confuse the issues. So try to look at your teaching in black and

white. Either he has is or he does not. If he does not, take a look at how

the skill is being taught, make sure you know the goal you are actually

looking for, and then take a look at how the skill is being taught (not

whether the child is getting it cognitively.)

I hope this helps and I hope that I have not blotched up Dr. Carbone's

explanation too much!

Rhonda

bbird098@...

August 22, 2000

<< I have been considering ritalin. >>

which promises permanent brain damage in return for temporary benefit -

perhaps why it is so popular with the same MD's who shoot kids full of

mercury.

Andy

August 22, 2000

<< We had the mercury blood test done last week and it was negative for

mercury. >>

this test is always negative. Then the people somehow magically all have a

spontaneous remission after mercury detox.

Andy

August 22, 2000

<< Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for something

other than mercury? >>

Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

Andy

August 22, 2000

<< Previous testing through the Great Plains Lab also

showed low levels of glutathione. >>

Testing through GP always shows that. Sometimes it is true. Sometimes it is

the opposite.

Andy

August 22, 2000

Ok, so first I should do the hair test? and current hair would be

sufficient? Can you tell me what you mean about the download thing. And

where do I call?

Do you recommend any other testing?

Thank you so much for this information.

Carol Goodson

August 22, 2000

Can someone give me some stats about how many people have done the treatments

to remove the mercury and what kind of results they are seeing. Also, what

regimen do you recommend following? Is this something I can just do, or do I

need a doctor? Should I start my son on DMSA. He is already taking 5000 IU

of cod liver oil a day, and melatonin at night.

Thanks,

Carol

August 23, 2000

No I don't, but I suspect it may have something to do with a post I saw from

Amy about counting how many results are above or below reference ranges.

Re: [ ] introduction

<< Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for something

other than mercury? >>

Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

Andy

August 23, 2000

Thanks for all the information all of you have given me. I plan to print out

and give to my doctor.

Sincerely,

Carol Goodson

August 23, 2000

Andy,

Would you please explain what you mean by the counting rules?

Neena Garza

ngarza@...

Re: [ ] introduction

><< Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

>months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for something

>other than mercury? >>

>

>Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

>can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

>

>Andy

>

August 23, 2000

Carol,

A blood test for mercury NOW will not in any way tell you if you son was

toxic during infancy when he would have been exposed if he recived

thimerosal containing vaccines. It will only tell you current exposure,

like if he had just eaten a tuna fish sandwitch. Half life of mercury in the

blood is approximately 50 days, them it becomes bound to the fatty tissues

in the body and will no longer be detected in the blood. The blood test was

a total was of money and time, unless they gave your child a chelating agent

before the test.

Lyn

[ ] introduction

> Hi,

>

> I am new here. My son is 5.9 years old. His development seemed quite

normal

> up to around 18 months. He was at his worst around 3. We learned he had

> severe milk allergy around 4. We had him tested also for gluten and

casein

> peptides -- negative. He started special ed at 4 with a diagnosis of

> language disorder. He does have sensory issues and I would say mild

autism

> (whatever that means). He has a recent medical diagnosis of PDD.

Although

> other professional evaluators disagree, and say he is NOT PDD and that is

a

> mislabeling. I have kept these labels out of his school paperwork. He is

> very intelligent. His language is now considered within normal range. At

5

> years old, he reads at a third grade level (completely self taught and

with

> comprehension). He no longer has an IEP and I am fearful of how he will

> handle himself socially. He definitely has problems with attention and

> focus, and I have been considering ritalin.

>

> We had the mercury blood test done last week and it was negative for

mercury.

> I refused his Kindergarten boosters with a religeous exemption.

>

> I am wondering what my next step should be. I have had little to no

support

> from doctors and insurance companies. But I plan to continue with

testing.

> I do not believe that my son was born with these issues.

>

> I also had an MRI done a couple of months ago, and was told it was

normal.

>

> Would it be wise now to have a hair test done from his first haircut (13

> months)? Can you recommend a lab? Should I have it analyzed for

something

> other than mercury?

>

> In reading the article at the ARI site regarding mercury poisoning, I find

> alot of my son there. Previous testing through the Great Plains Lab also

> showed low levels of glutathione.

>

> Is there a class action suit going on against the manufacturer of the Hep

B?

>

> Sorry for so many questions. Thanks.

>

> Carol Goodson

>

August 23, 2000

> Andy,

In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you read the

numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data?

Just curious as we just sent a sample to Great Smokies and have been hearing

about Doctor's data.

Mom to Josh in Iowa

>

> Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules you

> can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

>

> Andy

>

August 24, 2000

What part of Iowa are you in?

Re: [ ] introduction

>

>> Andy,

>

>In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you read the

>numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data?

>

>Just curious as we just sent a sample to Great Smokies and have been

hearing

>about Doctor's data.

>

>Mom to Josh in Iowa

>

>>

>> Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting rules

you

>> can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is irrelevant.

>>

>> Andy

>>

August 24, 2000

<< Would you please explain what you mean by the counting rules? >>

Statistical rules to interpret the Doctor's Data or Great Smokies hair

element analysis tests and decide if your kid is toxic. They can be

downloaded from the same place as the FAQ's. They are straightforward enough

you can sit down with the test results and the rules and decide what you

think.

Andy

August 24, 2000

See message #5580 for counting rules for Great Smokies, and Andy's

opinion of them (OK, but report not as understandable and it's more

expensive)

>

> > Andy,

>

> In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you

read the

> numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data?

>

> Just curious as we just sent a sample to Great Smokies and have

been hearing

> about Doctor's data.

>

> Mom to Josh in Iowa

>

> >

> > Doctor's data lab, either old or current hair, use the counting

rules you

> > can download to interpret it - the level of mercury itself is

irrelevant.

> >

> > Andy

> >

August 24, 2000

<< In your opinion, is the Great Smokies Hair test reliable? Do you read the

numbers the same as with the Doctor's Data? >>

I believe it is reliable. The way they report the data makes it much more

difficult to interpret using the " counting rules " approach. Doctor's Data is

also a bit cheaper.

Andy

August 30, 2000

June,

I salute you for being an active supporter of your grandchild's progress! So

nice to hear of a grandmother who cares enough about what her grandchild is

going through that she joins this e-mail list . Many others could learn

from you.

Gaylen

September 9, 2000

>

>Hello. I am new to this list & new to the world of autism: dx of my

>2 1/2 yo son in 4/00. We are setting up a behavioral program as I

>type. I'm very excited. But after skimming some of the posts to

>this list, I am learning how very much more there is for me to

>learn. So lets start with an extrememly basic question (please don't

>laugh). What is a mand? Is it a " communication event " from the

>child? Also, I know about Lovaas & DTT. But I haven't learned a lot

>about Dr. Carbone, S/P, . Is there a place (web site, etc.)

>where I can get a good understanding of these people & theories?

>

Dear ,

I promise not to laugh at any of your questions, other than the one can you

trust most school districts. Of course that is not fair, because this may

not be the case in your area, and also it is too cynical for a parent of a

newly diagnosed child. ;-)

A mand is a request. It stems from the word, DEMAND or even perhaps, or

also COMMAND. Certainly my son is into those kinds of requesting. ;-)

It is a verbal behavior term which is a form or flavor of ABA. I like to

say that ABA is like a country, potentially powerful, a great ally to its

citizens and has many dialects. Verbal Behavior is a type of dialect in ABA

teaching. It is a communication event, although we do not call it that in

ABA, however for all practical purposes it starts a process or is an event

that allows the listener to react and ideally meet the child's needs.

Dr. Carbone is a professional in the field, a Ph.D., who specializes in

the Verbal Behavior dialect of ABA and works mostly with children with

autism, although addresses the needs of children and older individuals with

developmental disabilities as well or has in the past. He is a consultant,

so booked up, I would'nt bother, and works with a few schools and is

involved in the Jericho School in Florida on some level. He also is a

popular and highly in demand speaker, and is probably doing that more than

anything else at this point. He is one of many, although a limited many who

is a very dedicated professional in the field of autism who believes

language is first and foremost and everything else is taught simultaneously

and at a different pace and rate than most DTT and other kinds of ABA, but

follows the principles of ABA. He also deviates a tiny bit from some of his

colleagues in minor ways, but is knowledgable and intelligent. Most of the

parents who are working with him directly have been pleased with his

services. I would think he probably is way over extended at this point, but

this is my little commentary I am famous for, and could be jealousy

talking. Probably not. LOL

Actually, S/P stands for Sundberg and Partington, VB professionals who have

made the literature of this form of ABA understandable and implementable by

the general public, IF well understood, ideally supported and supervised by

somebody who is in the know and used judiously and I hope I spelled that

right. They wrote a book that is a bible on this list and is immensely

helpful. If you do not own it, buy it from DIFFERENT ROADS TO LEARNING.

I do not have the number on me right this second, probably because I am in

my nightgown, but she sells it and ships it out incredibly fast. I make no

commission unfortunately, so that is not why I am saying use her. She is a

fellow parent and a great person though, so feel free to purchase good ABA

materials from her. And all is really is the form of ABA that

utilizes DTT, both at the table or on the floor, trampoline, back yard,

living room couch and anywhere, as long as you follow the steps and have a

target in mind and get some where using the general definitions of DTT.

NET stands for Natural Environment Teaching and it means generalizing and

using the real world to either teach or more often expand and explore

concepts you are introducing more formally, especially as language gets a

bit stronger and you want to have some opportunities that you can not

manage in your house at the table. Bringing a large wild animal to your

house is tricky.

And the clean up is awful. Don't bother, just drive on over to your local

zoo. LOL

I hope your preschool is of benefit. Please do read everything you can

here. Depending on your families needs, supports, funding sources if any,

ability to involve other tutor/therapists, etc., you may want to think hard

about your glorified daycare. Some of the preschool places offer a nice

balance of socialization, push without too much pressure. But too many

offer a lack of structure and have low expectations for participation OR

the readiness of the child and their receptive and expressive abilities.

This may not be your problem, but do consider if his time can be better

utilized. It might be a nice break for you though and it may allow you to

have time to focus on other needs, so you can better focus on his program

with ABA, etc., after and really work on that more intensely, so you have

to consider yourself too.

Good Luck. We are rooting for you.

Jennie, mom of older kid by far...

September 9, 2000

Hi ,

Any questions you have on here are very important. Never feel like others

might laugh at you. I have learned so much from this list I can't tell you.

Since ABA DTT is rather new to me too, only 3 months into it, I too have had

questions and gotten great answers on here.

I can add to what Jennie sent you in that I attended a workshop of Dr Mark

Sundbergs in March of this year. That is how I met Krista,(Dr Sundberg

recommended I talk with her) the therapist training me in ABA DTT. I have

to tell you his workshop was one of the greatest things I have ever done. He

too, like Dr Carbone, is totally committed to autism. I was fortunate enough

to talk with Mark for a bit privately and realized what a compassionate,

intelligent and committed man he is. That aside I do have his address,

website URL and the names of books you should have.

Mark L. Sunberg, Ph.D.

Behavior Analysts, Inc

3329 road

Pleasant Hill, CA 94523

www.corteks.com/stars

Books to get

The Assessment of Basic Language and learning skills (ABLLS)

W. Partington, PH.D and Mark L. Sundberg, PH.D

( this is a must pair of books, packaged together, since this is how you

track your child's progress)

Teaching Language to Children with Autism or Other Developmental

Disabilities

Mark Sundberg and Partington

Also make sure you get

A Work in Progress

Ron Leaf and McEachin, editors

I can't imagine life using ABA without this book. Everyone at the Sundberg

workshop told me this book was a must as also the ABLLS is. This book will

explain to you different things about Autism, plans, ideas, and about

everything you can imagine.

Mark Sundberg travels a great deal all over,doing workshops. I am from

Michigan and attended his workshop when my son had just been diagnosed. I

recommend you find out where he is (I know he is in Kalamazoo MI in a few

weeks)and try to go to his workshops. It will open your eyes to a great deal

of things.

As for school, please read all you can to prepare yourself on what may

happen. I never dreamed we would have to fight for a good education for my 5

year old son in public school. But we are now in the throws of it. As Jennie

said, preschool is nice for social interaction with " typical " peers, but a

great deal of time in it is time you lose to work with him and make

tremendous progress. Are you the one being trained to work with him using

ABA?

I hope some of this helped and look forward to hearing how things are going.

[ ] Introduction

>

> Hello. I am new to this list & new to the world of autism: dx of my

> 2 1/2 yo son in 4/00. We are setting up a behavioral program as I

> type. I'm very excited. But after skimming some of the posts to

> this list, I am learning how very much more there is for me to

> learn. So lets start with an extrememly basic question (please don't

> laugh). What is a mand? Is it a " communication event " from the

> child? Also, I know about Lovaas & DTT. But I haven't learned a lot

> about Dr. Carbone, S/P, . Is there a place (web site, etc.)

> where I can get a good understanding of these people & theories?

>

> My son is verbal, and is starting a regular " preschool " (glorified

> babysitting) on Monday w/ a shadow. I'm very excited about getting

> our program started, but my head is spinning from the brief training

> we did today. Thanks for your patience with a newcomer.

>

> VISIT www./community/ for informative FILES, LINKS page,

and ARCHIVE searches. You will need your password for egroups to use these

services.

>

September 9, 2000

Are you a member of the me-list?

http://www.addr.com/~me-list

If you are, go to the me-list files page.

http://people.sca.uqam.ca/~sqa/prive/

The user and passwords are availabe on me-list posts.

If not, you should become a member to discuss setting up your program on

the me-list too.

> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 02:11:16 -0000

> From: " " <JulsFish@...>

>Subject: Introduction