Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Strattera is a SNRI, not an SSRI. > The school nurse doles it out but in many states a teacher used to be able > to label a child and then if the parents didn't comply, call the state to > take > the child along with siblings. > > A law just passed preventing that for stimulant drugs but the new > Strattera is a failed SSRI gone ADHD med, it actually is not covered > by the law. > > Jim > > > > Under what auspices does the federal government fund children on > Ritalin??? And it is illegal for a teacher to distribute any medication. > Ritalin > must be administered by a registered nurse. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Strattera is a SNRI, not an SSRI. > The school nurse doles it out but in many states a teacher used to be able > to label a child and then if the parents didn't comply, call the state to > take > the child along with siblings. > > A law just passed preventing that for stimulant drugs but the new > Strattera is a failed SSRI gone ADHD med, it actually is not covered > by the law. > > Jim > > > > Under what auspices does the federal government fund children on > Ritalin??? And it is illegal for a teacher to distribute any medication. > Ritalin > must be administered by a registered nurse. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 She will probably get farther reporting the doctor to her state medical board, than pursuing the school district. Due process hearings for appropriate education are a very difficult long road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 These aren't special ed kids. Just regular students. Just regular school routine. Special ed is very different. Starris Re: Funding for ADD kids Children with ADHD along with many other disabilities, are covered under IDEA. Most people call them " special ed " . There is additional funding provided for special ed students regardless of the diagnosis....or the medication they are taking. Many of these children receive services that cost the districts far more than they are reimbursed. Further, President Bush just signed an ammendment to IDEA which prohibits schools from requiring children to take stimulants as a condition of their being allowed to attend school. > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school and get dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > Starris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Forvr22@a... > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a district money > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than $500.) and the child > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are learning or not, but I > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for medicating a > child. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Then I'm going to have to ask you for some kind of proof. I know there are no funds paid to schools for each child who takes a stimulant. Special ed kids can be in the regular classroom with a regular teacher. Very often they get some accomadations that others besides the teacher may not know about. In fact, IDEA encourages identified children be kept in the regular classroom whenever possible. That is what happens with most ADHD children who are prescribed stimulants. Further, stims are controlled substances and school nurses can't just hand them out like candy. In fact, I just talked to a parent whose child takes Ritalin. Ten pills seem to have disappeared from the nurse's office. She cannot get them replaced in the state of Texas unless she files a police report. > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school and get > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > Starris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Forvr22@a... > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > district money > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than $500.) and > the child > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are learning > or not, but I > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > medicating a > > child. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Are you asking me? You want my friend's phone # who has a kid at that school, or her daughter's # who is a teacher who lines 'em up and passes them out? Starris Re: Funding for ADD kids Then I'm going to have to ask you for some kind of proof. I know there are no funds paid to schools for each child who takes a stimulant. Special ed kids can be in the regular classroom with a regular teacher. Very often they get some accomadations that others besides the teacher may not know about. In fact, IDEA encourages identified children be kept in the regular classroom whenever possible. That is what happens with most ADHD children who are prescribed stimulants. Further, stims are controlled substances and school nurses can't just hand them out like candy. In fact, I just talked to a parent whose child takes Ritalin. Ten pills seem to have disappeared from the nurse's office. She cannot get them replaced in the state of Texas unless she files a police report. > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school and get > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > Starris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Forvr22@a... > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > district money > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than $500.) and > the child > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are learning > or not, but I > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > medicating a > > child. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Are you asking me? You want my friend's phone # who has a kid at that school, or her daughter's # who is a teacher who lines 'em up and passes them out? Starris Re: Funding for ADD kids Then I'm going to have to ask you for some kind of proof. I know there are no funds paid to schools for each child who takes a stimulant. Special ed kids can be in the regular classroom with a regular teacher. Very often they get some accomadations that others besides the teacher may not know about. In fact, IDEA encourages identified children be kept in the regular classroom whenever possible. That is what happens with most ADHD children who are prescribed stimulants. Further, stims are controlled substances and school nurses can't just hand them out like candy. In fact, I just talked to a parent whose child takes Ritalin. Ten pills seem to have disappeared from the nurse's office. She cannot get them replaced in the state of Texas unless she files a police report. > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school and get > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > Starris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Forvr22@a... > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > district money > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than $500.) and > the child > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are learning > or not, but I > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > medicating a > > child. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 No, I want to know the name of any program that pays schools to give children stimulants. I also want to know the name of any school that is despensing controlled drugs to children without a doctor's prescription. Yes, kids who take stimulants often take them a number of times throughout the day. Parents take the drugs to the nurse who gives them to the child when the next dose is needed. Children are not allowed to have the drugs with them at school. Stimulants must be kept under lock. That's standard procedure. In schools where there is no nurse, another adult is repsonsible. In this case it is apparently the teacher. If indeed the teacher is handing out speed to kids who don't have a doctor's prescription for it, your friend needs to call the police. > > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school and get > > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > > > Starris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Forvr22@a... > > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > > district money > > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than $500.) and > > the child > > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are learning > > or not, but I > > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > > medicating a > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Who said they don't have a prescription? Only the kids who are supposed to have it are dosed. I don't know the name of the schools. One is in CA and another is in FL. Don't believe it if you don't want to. Can't tell you the name of the law. I was simply reporting what happens. That's why schools are so anxious to get kids on the stuff. $$$ Used to be that a teacher could recommend it and a school dr would write the prescription w/o testing the child. Oh well, I don't think there are such tests anyway, so that's not important. Starris Re: Funding for ADD kids No, I want to know the name of any program that pays schools to give children stimulants. I also want to know the name of any school that is despensing controlled drugs to children without a doctor's prescription. Yes, kids who take stimulants often take them a number of times throughout the day. Parents take the drugs to the nurse who gives them to the child when the next dose is needed. Children are not allowed to have the drugs with them at school. Stimulants must be kept under lock. That's standard procedure. In schools where there is no nurse, another adult is repsonsible. In this case it is apparently the teacher. If indeed the teacher is handing out speed to kids who don't have a doctor's prescription for it, your friend needs to call the police. > > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school and get > > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > > > Starris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Forvr22@a... > > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > > district money > > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than $500.) and > > the child > > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are learning > > or not, but I > > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > > medicating a > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 There is no money paid to schools for putting children on stimulants or coercing their parents to do so. It doesn't happen. There is federal money given to school districts based on the number of special education student (students covered by IDEA) enrolled. Schools want kids on stimulants because it quiets many of them for the period they are in school. What happens to the kid after school when the drug wears off or when they grow up is of no concern to the school. > > > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > > > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school > and get > > > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > > > > > Starris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Forvr22@a... > > > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > > > district money > > > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than > $500.) and > > > the child > > > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are > learning > > > or not, but I > > > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > > > medicating a > > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 However, there are no federal funds allocated for gifted children in states where gifted is a category. > > Special Ed does not mean just below level, but all exceptionalities. > Actually in some states the gifted category is included with exceptional > children. Neurologic impairments and other specific learning disabilities are very > much part of exceptional children. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 No, they're still identified under IDEA, same as always. Many need special accomodations that can be provided by the mainstream teacher - no homework, late starts, escape passes, extra time for tests. 504s do not provide certain protections that IEPs do. Therefore many parents with kids deemed ED or OHI request IEPs rather than 504s. > > Identified kids in regular classes, with no resource or other services > (such as PT, or OT) are not funded under IDEA, and probably no longer are > identified under IDEA. Instead they may have accommodation under section 504 of > the Rehabilitation act. This carries no funding, but assures their right to > having their disability accommodated, and their right to participate in all > activities for which they would be otherwise qualified. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 My son has an IEP since October of this year. His specific designation is " other medical " anxiety related to paxil withdrawal. I fought hard for that designation to continue home instruction until he's ready to go back.Initially they wanted to classify him " emotionally disturbed " . You can imagine how I responded to that! I know that this gives the school alot of leeway for absences,testing accomadations etc.. I'm not sure about additional funds. > > > > Identified kids in regular classes, with no resource or other > services > > (such as PT, or OT) are not funded under IDEA, and probably no > longer are > > identified under IDEA. Instead they may have accommodation under > section 504 of > > the Rehabilitation act. This carries no funding, but assures their > right to > > having their disability accommodated, and their right to participate > in all > > activities for which they would be otherwise qualified. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Check out the Conners Rating Scale, http://www.mhs.com/CRS.htm I know a mom in Alvin, Texas that had that assessed on her child without her permission and then the scale was sent home for her to do on herself. This mother was being pressured to drug her exceptional boy, a little genius. finally after much trouble the boy was moved into a different class and he settled right down. I would assess that teacher not the boy. And Strattera is still going to be pushed because it's " non-stimulant " so I am curious what happens with that. No, I want to know the name of any program that pays schools to give children stimulants. I also want to know the name of any school that is despensing controlled drugs to children without a doctor's prescription. Yes, kids who take stimulants often take them a number of times throughout the day. Parents take the drugs to the nurse who gives them to the child when the next dose is needed. Children are not allowed to have the drugs with them at school. Stimulants must be kept under lock. That's standard procedure. In schools where there is no nurse, another adult is repsonsible. In this case it is apparently the teacher. If indeed the teacher is handing out speed to kids who don't have a doctor's prescription for it, your friend needs to call the police. > > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school and get > > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > > > Starris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Forvr22@a... > > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > > district money > > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than $500.) and > > the child > > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are learning > > or not, but I > > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > > medicating a > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 It is never legal to mail or fax a prescription for a Substance II drug. ALSO, it is not necessary that it is filled the day it is written --- What does that have to do with anything?!?!?!? Filing the prescription the same day it is prescribed is absolutely irrelevant!!!!! The prescription must be signed for by the parent/guardian of that prescribed child, or adult receiving that drug. You can't just pick up Ritalin like you can amoxicillin !!!!! School counselors can call all of their doctor friends they want ... but parents still have power to make their own doctor choices. No one is twisting their arm to see that " favored/recommended " doctor!!!! And that Doctor cannot prescribe ADHD drugs without an exam!!!! Don't even imply such an act............ ========================================== On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:27:40 EST Forvr22@... writes: What I do know that has happened is that school counselors will have a doc that they will call and recommend the child be medicated. Then persuade the parent to see the doc. This is not appropriate. If the doc mails the prescription it is not legal. They must be filled the day they are written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 It is never legal to mail or fax a prescription for a Substance II drug. ALSO, it is not necessary that it is filled the day it is written --- What does that have to do with anything?!?!?!? Filing the prescription the same day it is prescribed is absolutely irrelevant!!!!! The prescription must be signed for by the parent/guardian of that prescribed child, or adult receiving that drug. You can't just pick up Ritalin like you can amoxicillin !!!!! School counselors can call all of their doctor friends they want ... but parents still have power to make their own doctor choices. No one is twisting their arm to see that " favored/recommended " doctor!!!! And that Doctor cannot prescribe ADHD drugs without an exam!!!! Don't even imply such an act............ ========================================== On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:27:40 EST Forvr22@... writes: What I do know that has happened is that school counselors will have a doc that they will call and recommend the child be medicated. Then persuade the parent to see the doc. This is not appropriate. If the doc mails the prescription it is not legal. They must be filled the day they are written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I know another mother that had the principal drive her boy over to her house take her and the boy to a psych, get a prescription, insisting she stay in the car, driving to the pharmacy and getting the prescription filled, taking the mother home and making the kid take the drug before bringing him back to school. , Texas What I do know that has happened is that school counselors will have a doc that they will call and recommend the child be medicated. Then persuade the parent to see the doc. This is not appropriate. If the doc mails the prescription it is not legal. They must be filled the day they are written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Not sure what eligibility criteria you mean. A child with a disability that interfers with his ability to get an education should be covered under IDEA. There are no protections from disciplinary actions with 504's, something most of these kids need. > > You can request all you want, but the reality is that it is can be > difficult to meet eligibility criteria for identification. There is a yo yo > effect of identification, being served, they do better, then no longer meet > criteria. Then at the 3 year reeval. they are out. So it is good to have 504 > protection, especially in high school and beyond. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Not sure what eligibility criteria you mean. A child with a disability that interfers with his ability to get an education should be covered under IDEA. There are no protections from disciplinary actions with 504's, something most of these kids need. > > You can request all you want, but the reality is that it is can be > difficult to meet eligibility criteria for identification. There is a yo yo > effect of identification, being served, they do better, then no longer meet > criteria. Then at the 3 year reeval. they are out. So it is good to have 504 > protection, especially in high school and beyond. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I am fully aware that what schools are allowed/supposed to do under regulations like IDEA and FERPA and what they do are entirely two different things far too often. And, unfortunately, the people who are suppose to make schools follow the regulations -- states' departments of education -- generally protect the schools, not the children. > > > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > > > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school > and get > > > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > > > > > Starris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Forvr22@a... > > > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > > > district money > > > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than > $500.) and > > > the child > > > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are > learning > > > or not, but I > > > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > > > medicating a > > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I am fully aware that what schools are allowed/supposed to do under regulations like IDEA and FERPA and what they do are entirely two different things far too often. And, unfortunately, the people who are suppose to make schools follow the regulations -- states' departments of education -- generally protect the schools, not the children. > > > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > > > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school > and get > > > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > > > > > Starris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Forvr22@a... > > > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > > > district money > > > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than > $500.) and > > > the child > > > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are > learning > > > or not, but I > > > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > > > medicating a > > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 That's not only unethical for the principal, the doctor who accomodates that sort of behavior should have his licence revoked. I hope you have forwarded the new IDEA ammendment to her and that she has stopped medicating. > I know another mother that had the principal drive her boy over to her house > take her and the boy to a psych, get a prescription, insisting she stay in > the car, > driving to the pharmacy and getting the prescription filled, taking the > mother home > and making the kid take the drug before bringing him back to school. > , Texas > > > > What I do know that has happened is that school counselors will have > a > doc that they will call and recommend the child be medicated. Then persuade > the parent to see the doc. This is not appropriate. If the doc mails the > prescription it is not legal. They must be filled the day they are written. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 That's not only unethical for the principal, the doctor who accomodates that sort of behavior should have his licence revoked. I hope you have forwarded the new IDEA ammendment to her and that she has stopped medicating. > I know another mother that had the principal drive her boy over to her house > take her and the boy to a psych, get a prescription, insisting she stay in > the car, > driving to the pharmacy and getting the prescription filled, taking the > mother home > and making the kid take the drug before bringing him back to school. > , Texas > > > > What I do know that has happened is that school counselors will have > a > doc that they will call and recommend the child be medicated. Then persuade > the parent to see the doc. This is not appropriate. If the doc mails the > prescription it is not legal. They must be filled the day they are written. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Sorry, but it has happened many times, the thing is that no force is usually used against the parent, it's just suggested and the parent is recommended to the psych. The bad stories are when they do force the parents to comply or refuse to teach the kids. That's why all the uproar, that's whats been going on. See it's business as usual for many children that are misbehaving have parents that are not informed or to busy and overwhelmed. It's easy to get the kid on drugs when it's advertised all the time and the names are in common use in our language. Jim It is never legal to mail or fax a prescription for a Substance II drug. ALSO, it is not necessary that it is filled the day it is written --- What does that have to do with anything?!?!?!? Filing the prescription the same day it is prescribed is absolutely irrelevant!!!!! The prescription must be signed for by the parent/guardian of that prescribed child, or adult receiving that drug. You can't just pick up Ritalin like you can amoxicillin !!!!! School counselors can call all of their doctor friends they want ... but parents still have power to make their own doctor choices. No one is twisting their arm to see that " favored/recommended " doctor!!!! And that Doctor cannot prescribe ADHD drugs without an exam!!!! Don't even imply such an act............ ========================================== On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:27:40 EST Forvr22@... writes: What I do know that has happened is that school counselors will have a doc that they will call and recommend the child be medicated. Then persuade the parent to see the doc. This is not appropriate. If the doc mails the prescription it is not legal. They must be filled the day they are written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Exactly Sara, But things are getting better from two years ago. Thank goodness Jim I am fully aware that what schools are allowed/supposed to do under regulations like IDEA and FERPA and what they do are entirely two different things far too often. And, unfortunately, the people who are suppose to make schools follow the regulations -- states' departments of education -- generally protect the schools, not the children. > > > > The school district in Rancho Cordova, CA, gets $873 in federal > > > funds for every child on ritalin. The kids line up at school > and get > > > dosed. Teachers hand it out. > > > > > > > > Starris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Forvr22@a... > > > > Sorry, I don't understand that. Effectively it saves a > > > district money > > > > if they don't provide services(and saves much more than > $500.) and > > > the child > > > > is medicated, ie just is quiet in class wether they are > learning > > > or not, but I > > > > don't understand how you say they get an actual payment for > > > medicating a > > > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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