update

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/02 12:13:35 AM Mountain Standard Time, bobd1@... writes:

Have you tried talking to the doctor?

> Not in an attack mode, but in a concerned, informative way?

Have you threatened to sue their pants off if they kill your husband?????

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/02 11:00:58 AM Mountain Standard Time, ccreel@... writes:

Approximately 25% of physicians (higher percentage with nurses)

are on some mind-numbing drugs. Those who experience what is commonly reported here are shunned when they try to tell their peers.

What % of psychiatrists are on these drugs? I know it is much higher.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/02 11:00:58 AM Mountain Standard Time, ccreel@... writes:

Approximately 25% of physicians (higher percentage with nurses)

are on some mind-numbing drugs. Those who experience what is commonly reported here are shunned when they try to tell their peers.

What % of psychiatrists are on these drugs? I know it is much higher.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/02 12:13:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, ccreel@... writes:

Approximately 30% antidepressants.

As a whole, they seem to prefer benzodiazapines.

The number one rule among drug pushers is that you don't consume your wares. LOL

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/3/02 12:13:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, ccreel@... writes:

Approximately 30% antidepressants.

As a whole, they seem to prefer benzodiazapines.

The number one rule among drug pushers is that you don't consume your wares. LOL

[Guest guest]

From the perspective of someone who has a lot of contact

with docs, the latter would get a better response than the former.

In most cases, talking " nicely " gets you nowhere.

Doctors are deeply offended when " lay people " try to

tell them anything. They feel they ALWAYS know better than you -

even if you have reams of information.

The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing what

is considered to be the appropriate treatment according to

current accepted medical practice.

<<Have you tried talking to the

doctor?

> Not in an attack mode, but in a concerned, informative way?

<<Have you threatened to sue their pants off if they kill your

husband?????>>

Regards,

[Guest guest]

From the perspective of someone who has a lot of contact

with docs, the latter would get a better response than the former.

In most cases, talking " nicely " gets you nowhere.

Doctors are deeply offended when " lay people " try to

tell them anything. They feel they ALWAYS know better than you -

even if you have reams of information.

The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing what

is considered to be the appropriate treatment according to

current accepted medical practice.

<<Have you tried talking to the

doctor?

> Not in an attack mode, but in a concerned, informative way?

<<Have you threatened to sue their pants off if they kill your

husband?????>>

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Geeeeeeez...I guess I should finish my statement:

The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing what

is considered to be the appropriate treatment according to

current accepted medical practice, they feel they are doing

the right thing, and no amount of information from YOU

can convince them otherwise.

Malpractice threats are really more effective than most

people think. Unpleasant...but effective.

[Guest guest]

Geeeeeeez...I guess I should finish my statement:

The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing what

is considered to be the appropriate treatment according to

current accepted medical practice, they feel they are doing

the right thing, and no amount of information from YOU

can convince them otherwise.

Malpractice threats are really more effective than most

people think. Unpleasant...but effective.

[Guest guest]

I feel I must reply to this, as I have hit a brick wall with the doctors.

I do believe at least some of them KNOW what these drugs do, and are hiding behind the drug companies. I have been nice, I have begged, and I have also been not so nice. In the state that I'm in..... I'm concidered a loony! I'm sure my records they document will state this! They can manipulate those records anyway they see fit to hide their butts! My suggestion would be to somehow come up with a form for them to sign..... stating that THEY have been given the information showing the effects of these drugs and they refuse to treat the patient accordingly. Is this too far fetched?? I saw on one of my records at a glance that when he prescribed Paxil, that the "risks were explained and accepted." This is sooo untrue, as it was the same visit I asked him if these drugs could be my problem, and he highly praised the drugs, saying they are totally safe! How do you fight against their documentations, and us being the "mental case"???

Frustrated and Ticked,

Malinda

Re: Re: Update

Geeeeeeez...I guess I should finish my statement: The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing whatis considered to be the appropriate treatment according tocurrent accepted medical practice, they feel they are doingthe right thing, and no amount of information from YOUcan convince them otherwise. Malpractice threats are really more effective than mostpeople think. Unpleasant...but effective.

[Guest guest]

I feel I must reply to this, as I have hit a brick wall with the doctors.

I do believe at least some of them KNOW what these drugs do, and are hiding behind the drug companies. I have been nice, I have begged, and I have also been not so nice. In the state that I'm in..... I'm concidered a loony! I'm sure my records they document will state this! They can manipulate those records anyway they see fit to hide their butts! My suggestion would be to somehow come up with a form for them to sign..... stating that THEY have been given the information showing the effects of these drugs and they refuse to treat the patient accordingly. Is this too far fetched?? I saw on one of my records at a glance that when he prescribed Paxil, that the "risks were explained and accepted." This is sooo untrue, as it was the same visit I asked him if these drugs could be my problem, and he highly praised the drugs, saying they are totally safe! How do you fight against their documentations, and us being the "mental case"???

Frustrated and Ticked,

Malinda

Re: Re: Update

Geeeeeeez...I guess I should finish my statement: The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing whatis considered to be the appropriate treatment according tocurrent accepted medical practice, they feel they are doingthe right thing, and no amount of information from YOUcan convince them otherwise. Malpractice threats are really more effective than mostpeople think. Unpleasant...but effective.

[Guest guest]

said.....

" In most cases, talking " nicely " gets you nowhere.

Doctors are deeply offended when " lay people " try to

tell them anything. They feel they ALWAYS know better than you -

even if you have reams of information. "

Yea, they get this 'glazed look' in their eyes and you know you have

been written off as someone who doesn't deserve their attention.

I've seen my doctor talk to a pharmaceutical salesman. No glazed over

look to be seen. more like a mutual flirtation going on.

Pharmacists do the same thing - I've tried the nice approach. Say one

negative thing against their drugs and you have lost them. If you

look in their eyes, the moment they dismiss you can be seen.

lol, - I laughed so hard at your comment about the

pharmacist probably washing down his valium with my liquid zoloft.

Then I realised in your humour, you are probably so right - scary

thought! I wonder how many doctors are on antidepressants or similar

mind-altering drugs. Now that would be an interesting study. Or how

many doctors would never touch the stuff because they KNOW the truth

yet are willing to shove them off on their patients.

I wanted to thank you also, for recommending the two American Indian

books on the Red Road. Reading about American Indian spirituality

has been on my mental list of reading for some time, and so I took

your post as a 'sign' reminding me. Went to bookstore and they could

order one of them but the other was not on their list. Gonna go

search amazon now for them.

I am desperate for a balance between fighting the battle before us

and maintaining my sanity at the same time. That is why seeing an

egret flying by me at eye level stops me in my tracks and reminds me

that with all the evil in the world, there is something else in the

world which is good and true that I must keep in touch with.

Yesterday I took my dog to the beach just before sunset and he had

this great run with a greyhound. Ever see one of those guys freely

run? what a thing of beauty. It is one of those things that allows

me to be completely in the moment - thinking of absolutely NOTHING

else - just feeling his happiness to be running free.

> From the perspective of someone who has a lot of contact

> with docs, the latter would get a better response than the former.

> In most cases, talking " nicely " gets you nowhere.

> Doctors are deeply offended when " lay people " try to

> tell them anything. They feel they ALWAYS know better than you -

> even if you have reams of information.

>

> The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing what

> is considered to be the appropriate treatment according to

> current accepted medical practice.

>

>

> <<Have you tried talking to the

> doctor?

> > Not in an attack mode, but in a concerned, informative way?

>

>

> <<Have you threatened to sue their pants off if they kill your

> husband?????>>

>

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

said.....

" In most cases, talking " nicely " gets you nowhere.

Doctors are deeply offended when " lay people " try to

tell them anything. They feel they ALWAYS know better than you -

even if you have reams of information. "

Yea, they get this 'glazed look' in their eyes and you know you have

been written off as someone who doesn't deserve their attention.

I've seen my doctor talk to a pharmaceutical salesman. No glazed over

look to be seen. more like a mutual flirtation going on.

Pharmacists do the same thing - I've tried the nice approach. Say one

negative thing against their drugs and you have lost them. If you

look in their eyes, the moment they dismiss you can be seen.

lol, - I laughed so hard at your comment about the

pharmacist probably washing down his valium with my liquid zoloft.

Then I realised in your humour, you are probably so right - scary

thought! I wonder how many doctors are on antidepressants or similar

mind-altering drugs. Now that would be an interesting study. Or how

many doctors would never touch the stuff because they KNOW the truth

yet are willing to shove them off on their patients.

I wanted to thank you also, for recommending the two American Indian

books on the Red Road. Reading about American Indian spirituality

has been on my mental list of reading for some time, and so I took

your post as a 'sign' reminding me. Went to bookstore and they could

order one of them but the other was not on their list. Gonna go

search amazon now for them.

I am desperate for a balance between fighting the battle before us

and maintaining my sanity at the same time. That is why seeing an

egret flying by me at eye level stops me in my tracks and reminds me

that with all the evil in the world, there is something else in the

world which is good and true that I must keep in touch with.

Yesterday I took my dog to the beach just before sunset and he had

this great run with a greyhound. Ever see one of those guys freely

run? what a thing of beauty. It is one of those things that allows

me to be completely in the moment - thinking of absolutely NOTHING

else - just feeling his happiness to be running free.

> From the perspective of someone who has a lot of contact

> with docs, the latter would get a better response than the former.

> In most cases, talking " nicely " gets you nowhere.

> Doctors are deeply offended when " lay people " try to

> tell them anything. They feel they ALWAYS know better than you -

> even if you have reams of information.

>

> The problem is that as long as your doctors are doing what

> is considered to be the appropriate treatment according to

> current accepted medical practice.

>

>

> <<Have you tried talking to the

> doctor?

> > Not in an attack mode, but in a concerned, informative way?

>

>

> <<Have you threatened to sue their pants off if they kill your

> husband?????>>

>

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You said:

<< I wonder how many doctors are on antidepressants or similar

mind-altering drugs. Now that would be an interesting study. Or how

many doctors would never touch the stuff because they KNOW the truth

yet are willing to shove them off on their patients.>>

Approximately 25% of physicians (higher percentage with nurses)

are on some mind-numbing drugs. Those who experience what is

commonly reported here are shunned when they try to tell their peers.

Just as people here have been met with denial when they try to seek

help for their problems with these drugs, so have doctors.

This is so prevalent that most will no longer try to get help from

their colleagues because of the ridicule others have endured.

I hope this clearly illustrates what we are up against.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You said:

<< I wonder how many doctors are on antidepressants or similar

mind-altering drugs. Now that would be an interesting study. Or how

many doctors would never touch the stuff because they KNOW the truth

yet are willing to shove them off on their patients.>>

Approximately 25% of physicians (higher percentage with nurses)

are on some mind-numbing drugs. Those who experience what is

commonly reported here are shunned when they try to tell their peers.

Just as people here have been met with denial when they try to seek

help for their problems with these drugs, so have doctors.

This is so prevalent that most will no longer try to get help from

their colleagues because of the ridicule others have endured.

I hope this clearly illustrates what we are up against.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

yea, it sure does make it clearer. just another brick in the wall

that we are going to tear down, brick by brick.

ha ha - thinking of this huge problem as a wall of many bricks....how

do you successfully weaken the structure of a wall of bricks? attack

the base so that all the bricks above have no support and come

tumbling down. So, the bottom bricks are the most important for

holding the wall together.

who are the bottom bricks? the pharmaceutical companies? when you

look past the pharmaceutical companies, where does that take you? I

see the pharmaceutical industry as the 'ground level' layer of

bricks, however, there is an underground base on which it rests that

never sees the light of day and remains secret. who is that?

(no, I'm not stoned - straight as an arrow)

> Hi ,

>

>

> You said:

>

> << I wonder how many doctors are on antidepressants or similar

> mind-altering drugs. Now that would be an interesting study. Or

how

> many doctors would never touch the stuff because they KNOW the

truth

> yet are willing to shove them off on their patients.>>

>

>

> Approximately 25% of physicians (higher percentage with nurses)

> are on some mind-numbing drugs. Those who experience what is

> commonly reported here are shunned when they try to tell their

peers.

>

>

> Just as people here have been met with denial when they try to

seek

> help for their problems with these drugs, so have doctors.

> This is so prevalent that most will no longer try to get help from

> their colleagues because of the ridicule others have endured.

>

>

> I hope this clearly illustrates what we are up against.

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

yea, it sure does make it clearer. just another brick in the wall

that we are going to tear down, brick by brick.

ha ha - thinking of this huge problem as a wall of many bricks....how

do you successfully weaken the structure of a wall of bricks? attack

the base so that all the bricks above have no support and come

tumbling down. So, the bottom bricks are the most important for

holding the wall together.

who are the bottom bricks? the pharmaceutical companies? when you

look past the pharmaceutical companies, where does that take you? I

see the pharmaceutical industry as the 'ground level' layer of

bricks, however, there is an underground base on which it rests that

never sees the light of day and remains secret. who is that?

(no, I'm not stoned - straight as an arrow)

> Hi ,

>

>

> You said:

>

> << I wonder how many doctors are on antidepressants or similar

> mind-altering drugs. Now that would be an interesting study. Or

how

> many doctors would never touch the stuff because they KNOW the

truth

> yet are willing to shove them off on their patients.>>

>

>

> Approximately 25% of physicians (higher percentage with nurses)

> are on some mind-numbing drugs. Those who experience what is

> commonly reported here are shunned when they try to tell their

peers.

>

>

> Just as people here have been met with denial when they try to

seek

> help for their problems with these drugs, so have doctors.

> This is so prevalent that most will no longer try to get help from

> their colleagues because of the ridicule others have endured.

>

>

> I hope this clearly illustrates what we are up against.

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

<<What % of psychiatrists are on these drugs? I know it is much higher. >>

Approximately 30% antidepressants.

As a whole, they seem to prefer benzodiazapines.

[Guest guest]

<<What % of psychiatrists are on these drugs? I know it is much higher. >>

Approximately 30% antidepressants.

As a whole, they seem to prefer benzodiazapines.

[Guest guest]

Hi Malinda,

<<I feel I must reply to this, as I have hit a brick wall with the

doctors.

I do believe at least some of them KNOW what these drugs do, and are hiding

behind the drug companies.>>

You have to understand how a doctor is trained to undertand how

it is they really don't know.

Another big problem is that docs are stuck between a

" rock and a hard place. "

The accepted treatment for depression is antidepressants. If they

refuse to treat, they are going against the accepted treatment for

depression. They can lose their licenses for this.

The dangers of SSRIs are so difficult to see because not

all people react so poorly to them. About 50% of people

actually get significant relief.

The true problem that ALL drugs have been created while

we have very little CORRECT knowledge about body chemistry.

Drugs are manufactured for " cookie cutter " chemistry, when, in fact,

there is no such thing as " cookie cutter " chemistry.

This all began with " the wonder drug " penicillin. The results

were so positive that a horrible error in thinking occurred - if we can

create a drug like this for 'this' illness, why not create drugs for other

illnesses? Unfortunately, this was premature, and now we're only

beginning to see the trouble this way of thinking has created.

The majority of physicians get their drug information from

the pharmaceutical company representatives. Honestly,

a fair amount of physicians are incapable of reading detailed

drug info and understanding the implications of what they are reading.

They are not trained to do this.

Suffice it to say the problem has multiple, complex layers.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I wanted to comment on what you said here:

<<I wanted to thank you also, for recommending the two American Indian

books on the Red Road. Reading about American Indian spirituality

has been on my mental list of reading for some time, and so I took

your post as a 'sign' reminding me. Went to bookstore and they could

order one of them but the other was not on their list. Gonna go

search amazon now for them.>>

** You're welcome :-) 'Signs' - they're everywhere. We are

constantly being guided by the Universe's messengers. Animals,

people, sunsets, birds, stones...our 'guides' are everywhere.

You said:

<<I am desperate for a balance between fighting the battle before us

and maintaining my sanity at the same time. That is why seeing an

egret flying by me at eye level stops me in my tracks and reminds me

that with all the evil in the world, there is something else in the

world which is good and true that I must keep in touch with.

Yesterday I took my dog to the beach just before sunset and he had

this great run with a greyhound. Ever see one of those guys freely

run? what a thing of beauty. It is one of those things that allows

me to be completely in the moment - thinking of absolutely NOTHING

else - just feeling his happiness to be running free.>>

** As a teenager, I lived in Pownal, VT where they turned

a horse racing track into a greyhound racing track. A number of people

in town acquired older greyhounds who could no longer race.

We had one. Her name was Honey Bear:-) She was one of the

larger greyhounds, weighing in at 74 lb. Could she run (as long as she

wasn't in a race)!

It is a Native American belief that our pets show us what we need in our

lives.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You said:

<<ha ha - thinking of this huge problem as a wall of many bricks....how

do you successfully weaken the structure of a wall of bricks? attack

the base so that all the bricks above have no support and come

tumbling down. So, the bottom bricks are the most important for

holding the wall together. >>

** This kind of thinking is helpful. It gives a clearer picture

by removing the emotional content.

<<who are the bottom bricks? the pharmaceutical companies? when you

look past the pharmaceutical companies, where does that take you? I

see the pharmaceutical industry as the 'ground level' layer of

bricks, however, there is an underground base on which it rests that

never sees the light of day and remains secret. who is that?>>

** Those who stand to financially benefit the most are at the

underground base. They are not directly involved in the drug companies

or politics, but they financially support and benefit from both.

I want to get the " building inspectors " to demand that the " base "

be rebuilt because it was originally constructed on unstable ground.

The " building inspectors " wield al the power here.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You said:

<<ha ha - thinking of this huge problem as a wall of many bricks....how

do you successfully weaken the structure of a wall of bricks? attack

the base so that all the bricks above have no support and come

tumbling down. So, the bottom bricks are the most important for

holding the wall together. >>

** This kind of thinking is helpful. It gives a clearer picture

by removing the emotional content.

<<who are the bottom bricks? the pharmaceutical companies? when you

look past the pharmaceutical companies, where does that take you? I

see the pharmaceutical industry as the 'ground level' layer of

bricks, however, there is an underground base on which it rests that

never sees the light of day and remains secret. who is that?>>

** Those who stand to financially benefit the most are at the

underground base. They are not directly involved in the drug companies

or politics, but they financially support and benefit from both.

I want to get the " building inspectors " to demand that the " base "

be rebuilt because it was originally constructed on unstable ground.

The " building inspectors " wield al the power here.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

hi Trisha , nice to talk to you over here, a bit of a freer to voice

board.... these great folks have really me vent.... yes indeed, I

have told them I will see them either in hell or in court when Bob

hangs himself.... I have it written and dated even...gave copies to

the doctor...if you can cll him that.. hugs honey

> In a message dated 3/3/02 12:13:35 AM Mountain Standard Time,

> bobd1@e... writes:

>

>

> > Have you tried talking to the

> > doctor?

> > > Not in an attack mode, but in a concerned, informative way?

> >

> Have you threatened to sue their pants off if they kill your

husband?????

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

How sad and scary.

Suzy

>From: " joey75234 " <bobd1@...>

>Reply-SSRI medications

>SSRI medications

>Subject: Re: Update

>Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 06:46:56 -0000

>

>Suzy, hi and yew, I tried.....had him convinced to help Bob get off

>the stuff way last March...his way was to get him in the

>hospital...we agreed, and they locked him up, started a 10 reduction

>of the valium, Bob's schitso roomy called me one morning at about

>6am, said it was Bill, amazed me as Bill was the side of this man

>that never spoke...anyway, he told me Bob was laying in the bed and

>would not get up and was all cold and shaking and had messed himself

>and he had not gotten up since the day before...needless to say, I

>drove in 35 minutes the miles that usually took an hour and saw this

>wreck of humanity lying in his own filth, he did not even know me and

>he had not had food, water or his drugs for 18 hours...I went

>ballistic and ranted and yelled at everyone...his doc started rounds

>and heard me screaming and burst into the room, when he saw Bob he

>got scared, order brain scans and all sorts of things, guess he must

>have thought he messed up by the speed people ran... I insisted they

>get him to dose and send him home where he would at least be taken

>care of...he did that and Bob was home in 3 days....since then, I

>cannot even look at the ass wipe with out wanting to vomit...good

>suggestion, but no thanks, Bob can get murdered by this ass all by

>himself...

>

>

>

> >

> > Dear ,

> >

> > You were only telling him the truth. Have you tried talking to the

>doctor?

> > Not in an attack mode, but in a concerned, informative way?

> >

> > Love,

> > Suzy

> >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

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