Re: I thought I put a post about Kimchi....

March 24, 2010

It is said that the Mongols taught the Germans to make kraut. The

Mongols made something like Kimchi, and the Germans adapted it.

Anyway, today the main difference is that kraut is made with round

cabbage, and kimchi is made (at least one kind) with napa cabbage.

Kimchi is also made with a dozen other vegies. Kimchi usually has more

spices in it too, esp. red pepper.

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Jon <jonkatzmail@...> wrote:

> I thought I added a post asking what the difference was between making Kimchi

like in the Files section, and making sauerkraut. I have not made either one but

the recipe in the file seemed like the technique I read about a long time ago

for making sauerkraut. They don't taste the same, so what is the difference in

the way you make them? I have only eaten Kimchi at a chinese buffet, and haven't

eaten sauerkraut in quite a while. I thought about maybe possibly making some

Kimchi but I want to make it right so it doesn't become sauerkraut. So, can

anyone tell me?

>

> ------------------------------------

>

March 26, 2010

OOoooOOOOOoooHHHH! Different kind of cabbage, that makes sense. I looked at

Walmart for Napa cabbage and they didn't have it which sort of surprised me. I

wonder where else to look...

--- In nutrition ,

March 27, 2010

It's not always called " Napa " . It goes by other names (like " Chinese

cabbage " ). Anyway, here is a picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napa_cabbage

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Jon <jonkatzmail@...> wrote:

> OOoooOOOOOoooHHHH! Different kind of cabbage, that makes sense. I looked at

Walmart for Napa cabbage and they didn't have it which sort of surprised me. I

wonder where else to look...

>

> --- In nutrition ,

March 27, 2010

Napa / Nappa means " leafy vegetables " or " greens " like you call beef " meat " .

So any leafy vegetables like cabbage,hakusai,bokchoy,mustards can be called so.

Na means vegetable and Pa/Ha means leaf literally.

So napa definition is so broad and maybe defferent by people.

" napa " is confusing sometimes and very often,too,when you look for the specific

greens.

take care,

isao

March 27, 2010

That is interesting. I expect it's one of those labelling things

with " foreign " food. Right now Napa ONLY means

one kind of cabbage, at the grocery stores in the US. They also call it by an

even more confusing name though: " Chinese cabbage " , which is also

used to refer to Bok Choy, depending where you shop.

I bought some really interesting roots at one of the American

mainstream stores,

which were labelled " Japanese potato " . Took some research to

identify it: turns out to be something called " Nagaimo " which makes

this great pancake-like thing called okonomiyaki. I haven't tried

making anything else from it yet. But it doesn't appear to have much

of anything in common with a potato.

In the better markets around me, where there is " real " Asian food, it's

usually labelled in another language, and the English name is

" vegetable " .

So basically, no matter what store you shop in, if you want non-ordinary

ingredients, you have to learn to recognize them by sight.

Hm. In Wikipedia, they do refer to both Bok Choy and Napa as

" Chinese cabbage " :

===============

[edit] Pekinensis

Main article: Napa cabbage

This group is the more common of the two, especially outside Asia;

names such as napa cabbage, da baicai (lit. " large white vegetable " );

Baguio pechay or pechay wombok (Tagalog); Chinese white cabbage;

baechu (Korean), wongbok and hakusai (Japanese: ç™½èœ) usually refer to

members of this group. Pekinensis cabbages have broad green leaves

with white petioles, tightly wrapped in a cylindrical formation and

usually forming a compact head. As the group name indicates, this is

particularly popular in northern China around Beijing (Peking).

Chinensis

This group was originally classified as its own species under the name

B. chinensis by Linnaeus. When used in English, the name bok choy

(from Cantonese; also spelled pak choi) typically refers to Chinensis.

Smaller in size, the Mandarin term xiao baicai ( " small white

vegetable " ) as well as the descriptive English names Chinese chard,

Chinese mustard, celery mustard, and spoon cabbage are also employed.

Chinensis varieties do not form heads; instead, they have smooth, dark

green leaf blades forming a cluster reminiscent of mustard or celery.

Chinensis varieties are popular in southern China and Southeast Asia.

Being winter-hardy, they are increasingly grown in Northern Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cabbage

=============================

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 5:49 PM, isao haraguchi <dw1@...> wrote:

> Napa / Nappa means " leafy vegetables " or " greens " like you call beef " meat " .

> So any leafy vegetables like cabbage,hakusai,bokchoy,mustards can be called

so.

> Na means vegetable and Pa/Ha means leaf literally.

> So napa definition is so broad and maybe defferent by people.

>

> " napa " is confusing sometimes and very often,too,when you look for the

specific greens.

>

> take care,

> isao

>

> ------------------------------------

>

March 27, 2010

I bought some Napa cabbage today. At Walmart! I guess they were out before. Also

some fresh ginger. I couldn't find Kimchi there, I thought I could pour some

Kimchi juice over whatever I make. I guess I'll have to look somewhere else. I

mean, I could try making it with out juice but it seems more certain if I use

it.

--- In nutrition ,

March 27, 2010

Hi ,

What is your favorite blend of vegetables for kraut making?

Thank you kindly,

Kathleen

March 28, 2010

My favorite is just cabbage, with some apple chunks and juniper

berries. Not very fancy! I do love kimchi too though, and when I have that

it needs LOTS of good Korean pepper.

With kraut I think the secret is what you have it with. Cooked over

potatoes, with a good grilled sausage and a good mustard, is ideal. Or

raw, with pepperoni and mustard on a sandwich.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> What is your favorite blend of vegetables for kraut making?

>

> Thank you kindly,

>

> Kathleen

>

March 28, 2010

Hi ,

Do you crush the juniper berries? What kind of flavor do juniper berries

impart? That's the issue I have with kraut - what to have it with. You cook

the kraut??? Where can I find healthy recipes that call for kraut? What I have

done in the past is put some in a dish, add olive oil and celtic sea salt (but

that was when I made it salt free). Maybe I'll just need olive oil. My kraut

was so sour that the olive oil mellowed it out. This time I won't let it set

out for a week ;-)

Kathleen

" Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to

their limitations again. " R. Cook

________________________________

From:

March 28, 2010

Oh yeah, we cook with kraut! And yes, it kills the bacteria, but you

don't need *everything* you eat to have live bacteria. Fermented

cabbage has lots of good stuff in it, and the more problematic cabbage

ingredients go away when it's fermented.

The classic recipe for kraut is: Put some potatoes in the bottom of a

cassarole dish. Cover with kraut. Bake til the potatoes are done. Put

some bratwurst or bockwurst on top, bake some more til the wurst are

done (roasted, like a hot dog). You can coat the wurst with oil to

make them crispier if you want. Serve with a good mustard.

Any kind of meat was commonly roasted in or on the kraut. This adds

oil to it: and yes, oil makes it yummier. Corned beef, shank meat, any

long-roasted meat ... can be roasted in kraut. I think pig's feet were

common too, and ribs.

The germans often use carmelized onions mixed in with the kraut. The

sweet onion balances the sour kraut.

You can also make it into an " antipasto " salad, by mixing it with

balsamic vinegar. This makes it seem less sour too, and balances out

the flavor.

You can mix it with eggs and spices to make something like egg-foo-young.

You can add it to soup for flavor (esp. when it gets " too sour " or

it's a little mushy).

Raw, it is good on hot dogs. Probably on pizza too, though I haven't

tried it. And Reuben sandwiches. I don't do bread anymore, so I

haven't done that. I do put kimchi in tacos though, and it is quite

yummy (albeit I guess it's " fusion " cooking!).

Juniper berries, whole, are a traditional ingredient in kraut. I can't

really place the flavor, but the kraut tastes nicer with juniper

berries in it. Ditto for apples. I can't taste " apple " but the kraut

comes out nice.

Nummers, now I'm getting hungry ...

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Do you crush the juniper berries? What kind of flavor do juniper berries

impart? That's the issue I have with kraut - what to have it with. You cook

the kraut??? Where can I find healthy recipes that call for kraut? What I have

done in the past is put some in a dish, add olive oil and celtic sea salt (but

that was when I made it salt free). Maybe I'll just need olive oil. My kraut

was so sour that the olive oil mellowed it out. This time I won't let it set

out for a week ;-)

>

> Kathleen

>

> " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention

to their limitations again. " R. Cook

>

> ________________________________

> From:

March 28, 2010

Thank you!, . I DO like kraut on hot dogs. In order to make the kraut

flavored with juniper berries, is there a berry in every bite, or do the berries

tend to flavor the kraut like a peppercorn might? You've been very helpful,

. Thanks again!

Kathleen

" Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to

their limitations again. " R. Cook

________________________________

From:

March 28, 2010

I just toss a handful into the mix, probably one handful per 2 heads

of cabbage. They don't taste very strong. I don't put many in because

some people don't like " stuff " in their kraut.

On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...> wrote:

> Thank you!, . I DO like kraut on hot dogs. In order to make the kraut

flavored with juniper berries, is there a berry in every bite, or do the berries

tend to flavor the kraut like a peppercorn might? You've been very helpful,

. Thanks again!

>

> Kathleen

>

> " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention

to their limitations again. " R. Cook

>

> ________________________________

> From:

March 29, 2010

You mentioned carmelized onions. Do you make without oil and then kraut that in

the mix or add after it is made? Thought that sounded good. Made my first

Kraut on saturday. I am always nervous about these ventures but I just keep

adding new cultures or ferments. My kitchen is a chemistry lab now and loving

it.

Shari

March 29, 2010

Shari,

I'm a kitchen chemist too! hahaha It's so much fun. What do your friends and

family think about it all?

Kathleen

" Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to

their limitations again. " R. Cook

________________________________

From: havfaith56 <havfaith@...>

nutrition

Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 3:54:03 AM

Subject: Re: I thought I put a post about Kimchi....

You mentioned carmelized onions. Do you make without oil and then kraut that in

the mix or add after it is made? Thought that sounded good. Made my first

Kraut on saturday. I am always nervous about these ventures but I just keep

adding new cultures or ferments. My kitchen is a chemistry lab now and loving

it.

Shari

March 29, 2010

You make a batch of " grilled onions " and just mix them into the hot

kraut. Oil and all. Just before serving. Chopped potatoes are good

too. But no, don't put onions in before it ferments. They can get

really stinky ... sulfurous ...

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:54 AM, havfaith56 <havfaith@...> wrote:

>

> You mentioned carmelized onions. Do you make without oil and then kraut that

in the mix or add after it is made? Thought that sounded good. Made my first

Kraut on saturday. I am always nervous about these ventures but I just keep

adding new cultures or ferments. My kitchen is a chemistry lab now and loving

it.

>

> Shari

>

> ---------

March 29, 2010

Funny my kids refer to me as the crazy kitchen scientist!!!! lots of fermenting

& stuff going on! LOL

Patti

________________________________

From: Kathleen <kathleencsa@...>

nutrition

Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 12:42:30 PM

Subject: Re: Re: I thought I put a post about Kimchi....

Shari,

I'm a kitchen chemist too! hahaha It's so much fun. What do your friends and

family think about it all?

Kathleen

" Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to

their limitations again. " R. Cook

____________ _________ _________ __

From: havfaith56 <havfaithcharter (DOT) net>

nutrition @groups. com

Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 3:54:03 AM

Subject: Re: I thought I put a post about Kimchi....

You mentioned carmelized onions. Do you make without oil and then kraut that in

the mix or add after it is made? Thought that sounded good. Made my first

Kraut on saturday. I am always nervous about these ventures but I just keep

adding new cultures or ferments. My kitchen is a chemistry lab now and loving

it.

Shari

March 30, 2010

Kathleen,

I ordered a Viili yogurt start and Water Kefir grains one week before Christmas.

I found them by accident while researching natural salts. I received the

ordered the day after Christmas. Since then, my kitchen has exploded. I have

made sourdough bread (not the greatest still working on this), soft cheeses from

3 different yogurt starts (now have 6 starts), cultured butter, wheat grass

(still afraid of that some), sprouting some beans and more and more. Family

rolls their eyes and then is standing in line for more. I make Viile yogurt for

my mom. She uses it as an excused to come over and watch a movie and get a good

meal. Many who I have given a start to, can't seem to make the traditions

yogurts regularly themselves. Fear. I must say I had a lot of that myself.

Still do. Like my kraut bubles up against the metal lid, what should I do about

that? Just keep removing some?

I am making Kraut now. I is full of bubbles and is a beautiful purple color.

It is that some courage, but I will eat it. Then I will make more. I am still

over coming the lies we have all been taught. I amazes me how easy. I am going

to put in a garden this summer. Learning to dry food.

I have one friend really helping me with this. We have health problems and the

more of the crazy food chemistry I do, the better I feel. Thank God for this.

Reading Nourishing Traditions.

Anything else I should try?

Shari

March 30, 2010

Do you have any organizational tips for all of this? Ha!Ha! I want my

husband to put up some shelves in my kitchen to organize it all.

I have too many yogurt starts, but can't give any of them up. I have them

in the freezer. I need to dry them. I had an accident and crossed several

with milk kefir. Dried my hands on a towel with milk kefir on it. Realized

that later. I am glad I have my friend Cathi to told to about this. I got

her started in this. We figure it out over the phone.

Shari

Use it up, wear it out

make it do or do without

March 30, 2010

My kids and husband refer to my various ferments lining the kitchen counter as

" science projects. " ;-) They will not eat or drink any of my delicious ferments.

Been doing this for 5 or 6 years now. The only exception is my youngest daughter

who loves kimchi, but she won't do kefir or kombucha or any of my other veggie

ferments.

Boise, Idaho

March 30, 2010

Mine wont touch anything I " ferment or brew " ... they are even afraid I am going

to " slip " it into something too LOL... they ALWAYS ask, ah Mom what's in

this????

Patti

________________________________

From: artistmama <artistmama@...>

My kids and husband refer to my various ferments lining the kitchen counter as

" science projects. " ;-) They will not eat or drink any of my delicious ferments.

March 30, 2010

LOL. Do you slip them anything? I would, :-0 It's just me here. I have some

friends that love what I'm doing and I have them brewing KT, now. Next I will

get them to do the coconut kefir. If I can figure out how to make a good fruit

kefir I will pass that on too. Others think I'm way out there and don't even

come around anymore - weeds out the weaklings ;-) I love it all so much that I

want to open a cafe, and being here in the Los Angeles area I would find many

welcoming customers.

Kathleen

________________________________

From: patti <patti720@...>

nutrition

Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 6:28:46 AM

Subject: Re: Re: I thought I put a post about Kimchi....

Mine wont touch anything I " ferment or brew " ... they are even afraid I am going

to " slip " it into something too LOL... they ALWAYS ask, ah Mom what's in

this????

Patti

____________ _________ _________ __

From: artistmama <artistmama (DOT) com>

My kids and husband refer to my various ferments lining the kitchen counter as

" science projects. " ;-) They will not eat or drink any of my delicious ferments.

March 30, 2010

Wow, Shari, sounds like you are having way too much fun. A few years ago I

ordered Pima culture. It called for raw cream. It only works well in cooler

weather. I started it in Spring and it died when the days got warmer. It was

soooo good. However, the raw cream was so expensive and there was emphasis on

using raw cream. It turned the cream into a completely usable food and

non-fattening because the body utilized it all. I wonder if using pasteurized

cream is OK - any know? I wanted to get the sourdough starter so I could

eventually make Kvass from NT. I want to make yogurt. Shari, what is the

difference in Viili and yogurt? That's funny about your mom and family. It's

the creamy stuff they are after, huh? My canning jars don't have metal that the

kraut juice pushes against. I have my jar in a bowl. I made my kraut yesterday

and this morning it has leaked from the lid and into the bowl. I can't wait to

try it. I hope it's not too salty.

I used 2 small heads cabbage and 1 TBS of Celtic sea salt, juniper berries, an

apple, and ACV - per Patti. I put about 12 oz of the wilted cabbage into the

blender with fresh water and about heaping tsp of salt and poured it over the

cabbage, berries and apple, mixed and stuffed it into the jar. I hope I wilted

the cabbage long enough. Do you have to churn your butter to make cultured

butter? I'd love to make that but thought special equipment and a willing arm

was necessary. I noticed that some people that I give cultures to are hesitant

when the prepare the ferment. I strongly feel that one must be present when

preparing these foods/drinks - if not then they fail.

I love NT. So far though, I've only made the drinks and tonics. I have yet to

buy a cow hoof and make beef broth. But I'll get there ;-)

Kathleen

" Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to

their limitations again. " R. Cook

________________________________

From: havfaith56 <havfaith@...>

nutrition

Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 3:52:17 AM