Re: cruciferous veg

May 6, 2008

Deanna,

> Well, first off, he was a creationist who firmly believed that all

> species were created separately in the beginning. So he was wrong about

> that. He also classified orangutans under the genus Homo, he placed

> fungi in the plant kingdom (iirc), and so on.

Well the independent creation of all species is completely

implausible, so I would accept saying he was almost certainly wrong in

that regard, but it makes little sense to say he was " wrong " with

respect to the other examples. His classification system simply had a

different basis than the currently used classification system,

reflecting similarities rather than phylogeny.

> > It's the noun of cruciferous. The cruciferae were so named because

> > the bore the cross of their four leaves -- thus, they were bearers of

> > a cross.

> No shit in terms of the grammar. But I thought it was the flowers that

> made the cross, not the leaves. Arugula flowers look like an " x " ,

> cross, " t " or whathaveyou.

Oh yes you are right. I even wrote that in my article. My point

about the grammar was that if one form is accepted the other has to

be.

> No I don't have a problem with it. I was joking about the word

> crucifer, which you use ad nauseum when a variety might be spicier - you

> know, like calling these horrid toxic plants, that some wackos actual

> ferment and then eat <gasp>, by their genus name! You are mainly

> referring to broccoli, cabbage and the dreaded brussels sprouts, after all.

I use both terms, but in my article I mainly used crucifer because I

was discussing the entire family. The goitrogenic anti-carcinogens

are found throughout the family, not just in the brassicas.

> And so what if I spelled the family name the same as the genus name? It

> appears that you take things far too seriously and are nit picking as if

> your very ego depended on it. Arugula is in the family, call the family

> what you will, Brassicaceae or Cruciferae; so will I. I mean hell, the

> former (as in first listed in the previous sentence) name for the family

> DOES come from the genus. But fine, if spelling is so important, then

> why don't you use the proper name Cruciferae?

Because I misspelled it. I wasn't making a point about the spelling

-- the term " brassica " refers to plants in the genus. If you look at

dictionary.com, for example, all the entries for " brassica " that spell

it with a lower-case b (and thus are not the proper genus name) have

it referring to plants in the genus:

=======

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brassica

Any of various plants of the genus Brassica of the mustard family,

including cabbage, broccoli, and turnip.

=======

Of course, you are right in criticizing my arrogance here, I suppose,

though I think you made this about me when you called the commonly

used " crucifer " a " Masterjohnism, " but I am, I suppose, no less lame

for taking the bait.

Chris

May 6, 2008

Not my children. They love them.

> nutrition

> From: tonio@...

> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:34:56 -0400

> Subject: Re: cruciferous veg

>

> LOL, ok, maybe we can all at least agree that brussel sprouts were

specifically designed and created to nauseate children. The rest hardly matters

anymore, as adults have long since lost any sense.

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senger_052008

May 6, 2008

<<My wife loves brussels sprouts and she is a US native. Please be real.>>

OK I have not wanted to come forward and admit this, but I will:

I LOVE brussels sprouts and I am from Cuba, wonder what that

means...my children also love brussels sprouts and they are only 1/2

Cuban. I never buy them b/c I cannot find them organically grown

around here, sigh. Has anyone ever fermented those deadly little green balls?

Millie

May 6, 2008

Deanna

I think you mean H.W. and not W.

GB

>

> Well, perhaps they were out of sorts and didn't get enough vitamins

> and minerals cuz they wouldn't eat their broccoli. There's a lesson

> in here somewhere, like maybe: If you don't want to be like W, eat

> your brassicas!

>

> Deanna

>

May 6, 2008

On 5/6/08, various people wrote:

> I am from northwest Indiana and I love brussle sprouts. I only buy them in

> season though.

> Not my children. They love them.

> OK I have not wanted to come forward and admit this, but I will:

> I LOVE brussels sprouts and I am from Cuba, wonder what that

> means...my children also love brussels sprouts and they are only 1/2

> Cuban. I never buy them b/c I cannot find them organically grown

> around here, sigh. Has anyone ever fermented those deadly little green balls?

I'm sorry for any confusion, let me just clarify: it does not surprise

me to run into people on the internet who like brussels sprouts. In

fact, I have even seen this type of thing on tv. It is only in real

life that I have not seen this happen personally. I have occasionally

met people who forced their children to eat them because they

erroneously believed they were good for them, but no one enthusiastic

to eat them.

I think one of the reasons that there are populational variations in

having a taste for brussels sprouts is probably because people with

different genes might have different tolerances for cyanide. I know

someone from the internet (though whom I have met in real life a few

times) who got what I believe was transient cyanide toxicity from

brussels sprouts once because she was on a restrictive diet that

allowed them and ate too many. In lab animals, they have signs at

toxicity beginning at the lowest level tested, 2% of the diet, though

the toxicity becomes much more worrisome at 5-10% of the diet.

Brussels sprouts are unique among crucifers in this respect. So that

might explain, say, UK vs. US. Why it is that everyone who likes them

I meet on the internet, I'm not yet sure.

Chris

May 6, 2008

Hi

Well I guess I don't count either because I'm on the internet (!) but I

recently bought some Brussels Sprouts, despite your warnings about how evil

they are {LOL}. We cooked roast lamb for supper with our neighbours, and

this was actually a little treat for hubby who is very partial to them. I

quite like them, although I prefer broccoli. We are both English, as is one

of our neighbours, and the other is Canadian. They were genuinely pleased

to have them for a change, saying they only usually eat them with Christmas

dinner. I always thought that everyone likes Brussels in England - maybe

because they can actually grow them there ;-)

and the K9's

> I think one of the reasons that there are populational variations in

> having a taste for brussels sprouts is probably because people with

> different genes might have different tolerances for cyanide. I know

> someone from the internet (though whom I have met in real life a few

> times) who got what I believe was transient cyanide toxicity from

> brussels sprouts once because she was on a restrictive diet that

> allowed them and ate too many. In lab animals, they have signs at

> toxicity beginning at the lowest level tested, 2% of the diet, though

> the toxicity becomes much more worrisome at 5-10% of the diet.

> Brussels sprouts are unique among crucifers in this respect. So that

> might explain, say, UK vs. US. Why it is that everyone who likes them

> I meet on the internet, I'm not yet sure.

May 6, 2008

Hi ,

> Well I guess I don't count either because I'm on the internet (!)

Oh by no means! Far be it from me to discount anyone, let alone

anyone so precious as you. :-) You count, it's just that you count

as an internet person and not in the other category. I hope you

understand :-)

> but I

> recently bought some Brussels Sprouts, despite your warnings about how evil

> they are {LOL}.

I didn't say they are *evil* just that they are pretty toxic and kind

of gross, except to people on the internet and people in the UK

(Australia included by extension), especially people who are from both

simultaneously.

> We cooked roast lamb for supper with our neighbours, and

> this was actually a little treat for hubby who is very partial to them. I

> quite like them, although I prefer broccoli. We are both English, as is one

> of our neighbours, and the other is Canadian.

French Canadian or English Canadian? (I see a pattern...?)

> They were genuinely pleased

> to have them for a change, saying they only usually eat them with Christmas

> dinner. I always thought that everyone likes Brussels in England - maybe

> because they can actually grow them there ;-)

Well I've never been to England, but in the US there is a stereotype

about English cooking and how it doesn't taste good. I have no idea

if there is any truth to it. By how pleasant people from the English

internet are, I would guess it must be a myth and I'm sure your

dinner, especially the lamb, was delightful. :-)

Chris

May 6, 2008

Perhaps your experience in " real life " is simply limited. I understand that

you do not like Brussels sprouts and that you really did not like them as a

child and that you have found evidence (on the internet?) that they contain

more cyanide than, perhaps, other brassicas/cruciferous vegetables and that

your friend from the internet whom you have met in real life a few times may

have shown some transient cyanide toxicity.

Can we let this go now?

Connie

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Masterjohn

Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:29 PM

nutrition

Subject: Re: cruciferous veg

Hi ,

> Well I guess I don't count either because I'm on the internet (!)

Oh by no means! Far be it from me to discount anyone, let alone

anyone so precious as you. :-) You count, it's just that you count

as an internet person and not in the other category. I hope you

understand :-)

> but I

> recently bought some Brussels Sprouts, despite your warnings about how

evil

> they are {LOL}.

I didn't say they are *evil* just that they are pretty toxic and kind

of gross, except to people on the internet and people in the UK

(Australia included by extension), especially people who are from both

simultaneously.

> We cooked roast lamb for supper with our neighbours, and

> this was actually a little treat for hubby who is very partial to them. I

> quite like them, although I prefer broccoli. We are both English, as is

one

> of our neighbours, and the other is Canadian.

French Canadian or English Canadian? (I see a pattern...?)

> They were genuinely pleased

> to have them for a change, saying they only usually eat them with

Christmas

> dinner. I always thought that everyone likes Brussels in England - maybe

> because they can actually grow them there ;-)

Well I've never been to England, but in the US there is a stereotype

about English cooking and how it doesn't taste good. I have no idea

if there is any truth to it. By how pleasant people from the English

internet are, I would guess it must be a myth and I'm sure your

dinner, especially the lamb, was delightful. :-)

Chris

May 6, 2008

Oh

You are too funny :-)

My friend is English Canadian, but she's been married to a Brit for so long

that she's forgotten her Cdn heritage! I really don't know where Canadians

stand on the issue of Brussels Sprouts, but they sell them here, so somebody

must be eating them......

BTW I've eaten a lot of prune pits in my time, so am probably immune to the

effects of Cyanide :-)

The lamb was Australian and EXCELLENT. I'm sure Ross would be proud :-)

-----

> Oh by no means! Far be it from me to discount anyone, let alone

> anyone so precious as you. :-) You count, it's just that you count

> as an internet person and not in the other category. I hope you

> understand :-)

May 6, 2008

Connie,

> Perhaps your experience in " real life " is simply limited. I understand that

> you do not like Brussels sprouts and that you really did not like them as a

> child and that you have found evidence (on the internet?) that they contain

> more cyanide than, perhaps, other brassicas/cruciferous vegetables and that

> your friend from the internet whom you have met in real life a few times may

> have shown some transient cyanide toxicity.

Well I suppose it could be something about me. My friend didn't eat a

toxic load of brussels sprouts until *after* meeting me in real life

so I suppose that could be part of it. However, notice the

geographical distribution of folks even on the internet who like

brussels sprouts. So I'm not the only factor.

Chris

May 6, 2008

Hi ,

> My friend is English Canadian, but she's been married to a Brit for so long

> that she's forgotten her Cdn heritage!

That pretty much explains it then.

> I really don't know where Canadians

> stand on the issue of Brussels Sprouts, but they sell them here, so somebody

> must be eating them......

If " here " is English Canada I think it's self-explanatory. The US is

kind of a melting pot, though brussels sprouts are usually greatly

outnumbered by other vegetables in a grocery store.

> BTW I've eaten a lot of prune pits in my time, so am probably immune to the

> effects of Cyanide :-)

>

> The lamb was Australian and EXCELLENT. I'm sure Ross would be proud :-)

If you always eat them with plenty of lamb, the sulfur amino acids and

the B12 help detoxify cyanide, so that would make them much safer.

Still, the rate of enzymatic cyanide detoxification in the liver

varies by a huge factor, I forget how much, but it is enough that one

man's brussels sprout would be another man's poison, as the Romans

used to say.

Chris

May 6, 2008

My own personal experience is that most people I know and have known

over the years don't like brussels sprouts. Same goes for liver. Most

of the people I know who like either food are from the Internet.

Personally I can't stand them although I have eaten them from time to

time.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

May 6, 2008

On 5/6/08, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> My own personal experience is that most people I know and have known

> over the years don't like brussels sprouts. Same goes for liver. Most

> of the people I know who like either food are from the Internet.

> Personally I can't stand them although I have eaten them from time to

> time.

Most people I have met in real life, I would guess, probably wouldn't

like liver, but actually most of them have never had liver. I

frequently meet people who say they've never had liver, occasionally

meet people who hate liver, and about just as often meet people whose

grandfather loved liver.

However, I have met tons of people in real life who eat liver

associated with WAPF or the internet, some of whom like it, in

contrast to brussels sprouts.

Have you tried liver from North Star Bison? I find it to be of much

higher quality than what I can get elsewhere and much more tolerable.

Chris

May 6, 2008

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Masterjohn

<chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Most people I have met in real life, I would guess, probably wouldn't

> like liver, but actually most of them have never had liver. I

> frequently meet people who say they've never had liver, occasionally

> meet people who hate liver, and about just as often meet people whose

> grandfather loved liver.

>

> However, I have met tons of people in real life who eat liver

> associated with WAPF or the internet, some of whom like it, in

> contrast to brussels sprouts.

I should have clarified that.I hate brussels sprouts but I can

tolerate liver. On rare occasions I will make liver and onions. And

yes my parents, let alone my grandparents, actually like the stuff.

> Have you tried liver from North Star Bison? I find it to be of much

> higher quality than what I can get elsewhere and much more tolerable.

I believe I have. I find both their organ meats and muscle meats a cut

above just about anything I have tried out there. I actually like some

chicken liver pates, although I have yet to find a good beef liver

pate with a good fatty acid profile that I like. I am looking forward

to trying the beef pates (which include liver, heart, tongue and

kidney) from US Wellness meats.

--

I will say that unless one is in some kind of daily, personal dynamic,

be it marriage or monasticism, one will never truly see themselves.

Like it or not in either of these situations there is inescapable

feedback on one's character and choices...There is a built in reality

gauge in living in an intimate vowed relationship that cannot be

simulated otherwise.

-Anonymous

May 6, 2008

I am curious as to why you make a point about meeting them on the internet.

Are you implying that people on the net who like brussels sprouts are

somehow being untruthful with you or are somehow different than the rest of

the population? Believe me, my wife likes them and she is not on the

internet with me. I would not make it up to prove a point. So why is that

even an issue? Perhaps you need to get out more and meet different people,

then you would find folks in " real life " who eat them and enjoy them.

Re: cruciferous veg

> On 5/6/08, various people wrote:

>

>> I am from northwest Indiana and I love brussle sprouts. I only buy them

>> in

>> season though.

>

>> Not my children. They love them.

>

>> OK I have not wanted to come forward and admit this, but I will:

>> I LOVE brussels sprouts and I am from Cuba, wonder what that

>> means...my children also love brussels sprouts and they are only 1/2

>> Cuban. I never buy them b/c I cannot find them organically grown

>> around here, sigh. Has anyone ever fermented those deadly little green

>> balls?

>

> I'm sorry for any confusion, let me just clarify: it does not surprise

> me to run into people on the internet who like brussels sprouts. In

> fact, I have even seen this type of thing on tv. It is only in real

> life that I have not seen this happen personally. I have occasionally

> met people who forced their children to eat them because they

> erroneously believed they were good for them, but no one enthusiastic

> to eat them.