Re: OT: Old Animals

[Guest guest]

>

> peta.org Animals are not ours to eat.

Why not? They eat each other!

R

[Guest guest]

It is one thing to take care of animals and then kill them if you want

to or at least to buy flesh from somewhere where the animals are

treated decently, but its disgusting to support factory " farms " by

buying from the grocery stores and restraunts.Those animals don't even

see the light of day and live tortured lives, literally. It is

compassionate not to eat animals' flesh. They have families and feel

pain, physical and emotional, just like we do.They do not have any

opportunity to get away or fight back like in nature.Pigs are more

intelligent than dogs.People are animals, too, and people also kill

people but it is not something I would want to do..I hope that I never

have to go through what they do.If peopole are ever reincarnated back

here as animals, then they will really understand the complete pain

and suffering they go through.Meat eaters will most likely experience

bad karma in this lifetime, also. Most meat eaters are negative,

unhappy and fat.Meat causes disease.If people were meant to eat meat

it wouldn't have negative effects.Evolve or degenerate..

[Guest guest]

No offense:)That is just my opinion.I have eaten my share of meat.

[Guest guest]

>> It is one thing to take care of animals and then kill them if you want

to or at least to buy flesh from somewhere where the animals are

treated decently, but its disgusting to support factory " farms " by

buying from the grocery stores and restraunts

A few years ago I would have vehemently disagreed,

but since raising my own animals (and getting some

from farmers I trust) I tend to agree. I feel better

knowing where the meat came from, how it was raised.

It's a weird symbiosis though. When you actually become

involved in the process, you realize that you ARE part

of the process, and you will eventually become food

for some other creature.

You are created from star-stuff, and will go back to

the stars. In the meantime, your molecules will become

part of many creature's bodies, and you will consume

many creature's bodies (whether or not you are vegan!).

And if that ain't weird, what is?

In the meantime, since I don't really understand

how this universe is put together, I try to treat

animals (and humans) decently. In nature, all animals

end up being food for some other animal, usually a

predator who isn't particularly concerned with their

well-being. But as a farmer, you are more involved with

the *life* of the animal, which is a huge responsibility.

Every animal wants different things, and just figuring

that out takes a lot of brain cells.

Most farmer's I've met really do treat their livestock

with care though. You can deal with the farmers directly

if you care to, which is often a win-win for everyone.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I agree Heidi that supporting humane farming is a good idea, I like to buy

locally from the small farmer when I can after I've had a chance to scope out

their operation. I would just have to add that at this point in time it is not

possible for everyone who wants to eat meat to be able to afford the grass-fed

humanely raised stuff, nor do a lot of people live in rural areas. So I don't

feel a need to judge people who eat meat and say they are going to hell (the

equivalent of telling someone they are going to get " bad karma " ) (not that you

said this). Indeed, as you said, we are all of the same stuff and in one way or

another our " stuff " gets recycled back --- food or fertilizer!

-------------- Original message --------------

From: HeidiS <heidis@...>

> >> It is one thing to take care of animals and then kill them if you want

> to or at least to buy flesh from somewhere where the animals are

> treated decently, but its disgusting to support factory " farms " by

> buying from the grocery stores and restraunts

>

> A few years ago I would have vehemently disagreed,

> but since raising my own animals (and getting some

> from farmers I trust) I tend to agree. I feel better

> knowing where the meat came from, how it was raised.

> It's a weird symbiosis though. When you actually become

> involved in the process, you realize that you ARE part

> of the process, and you will eventually become food

> for some other creature.

>

> You are created from star-stuff, and will go back to

> the stars. In the meantime, your molecules will become

> part of many creature's bodies, and you will consume

> many creature's bodies (whether or not you are vegan!).

>

> And if that ain't weird, what is?

>

> In the meantime, since I don't really understand

> how this universe is put together, I try to treat

> animals (and humans) decently. In nature, all animals

> end up being food for some other animal, usually a

> predator who isn't particularly concerned with their

> well-being. But as a farmer, you are more involved with

> the *life* of the animal, which is a huge responsibility.

> Every animal wants different things, and just figuring

> that out takes a lot of brain cells.

>

> Most farmer's I've met really do treat their livestock

> with care though. You can deal with the farmers directly

> if you care to, which is often a win-win for everyone.

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

And I'll second the " non judgmental " part! I really, really try

to get people in touch with buying from the farm, because

it's a better way to go for all concerned (the way we do it,

it's cheaper, too).

But it's not about judgment. If I start

getting into " all living beings should be humane " then I'll have

to start getting upset about all those cruel lions in Africa

and the way elk (Bambi's Dad!) will fight each other to

the death or the ever-present infanticide (one species of

parrot always has two chicks: and they only feed the strongest

one so the other starves).

If anything, the oddity in all this is that humans have a

lot of empathy, which other creatures

largely lack. And being a meat-eating creature with

a high empathy level is just a kind of a huge irony.

The most empathetic people are the ones most likely

to not want to know much about where their meat

comes from, to avoid cognitive dissonance.

-- Heidi

seaorca@... wrote:

> I agree Heidi that supporting humane farming is a good idea, I like

to buy locally from the small farmer when I can after I've had a chance

to scope out their operation. I would just have to add that at this

point in time it is not possible for everyone who wants to eat meat to

be able to afford the grass-fed humanely raised stuff, nor do a lot of

people live in rural areas. So I don't feel a need to judge people who

eat meat and say they are going to hell (the equivalent of telling

someone they are going to get " bad karma " ) (not that you said this).

Indeed, as you said, we are all of the same stuff and in one way or

another our " stuff " gets recycled back --- food or fertilizer!

>

>

[Guest guest]

How negative is it to come and call meat eaters bad people? The

negative result from eating meat is that peta members will hate

you. They will 'see' something bad in whatever it is that you do.

Most people don't have the opportunity to go to a butchers' shop.

Yes factory raised chicken is disgusting - it's not good enough.

Not ever having good food would make anyone unhappy. It's the

disgusting factory monopoly that is making everyone unhappy. You

don't help by saying vegetables are enough. You play right into the

industry's hands. And just how " happy " will I get buying a piece of

leaf in a piece of plastic? Not.

People are already experiencing complete pain. You just may not

know about it because the prison system is way off as far to you as

outer space. People are treated worse than animals. Go see a

slum.

We all want to have good food...people on the dairy group want real

milk from properly treated animals. Members of that factory farm

system you call so disgusting are the ones driving good farms out.

They're wrecking anything that could break their monopoly.

How nice of you to tell us this is all okay because we will evolve

into herbivores. Let the meat eaters degenerate.

>

> It is one thing to take care of animals and then kill them if you

want

> to or at least to buy flesh from somewhere where the animals are

> treated decently, but its disgusting to support factory " farms " by

> buying from the grocery stores and restraunts.Those animals don't

even

> see the light of day and live tortured lives, literally. It is

> compassionate not to eat animals' flesh. They have families and

feel

> pain, physical and emotional, just like we do.They do not have any

> opportunity to get away or fight back like in nature.Pigs are more

> intelligent than dogs.People are animals, too, and people also kill

> people but it is not something I would want to do..I hope that I

never

> have to go through what they do.If peopole are ever reincarnated

back

> here as animals, then they will really understand the complete pain

> and suffering they go through.Meat eaters will most likely

experience

> bad karma in this lifetime, also. Most meat eaters are negative,

> unhappy and fat.Meat causes disease.If people were meant to eat

meat

> it wouldn't have negative effects.Evolve or degenerate..

>

[Guest guest]

Sure. Get around your wicked work by saying it's not offensive. You

most certainly did mean it to be offensive.

Would people just quit writing its Just My Opinion.?! It's

redundant. We already know it's your opinion---you wouldn't post

something you don't believe in!

>

> No offense:)That is just my opinion.I have eaten my share of meat.

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry to be judgmental. My opinion is based on personal experience and

observations.

I also notice a resemblance between human beings and nursing pigs..

[Guest guest]

I think free animals living naturally is a completely different thing

from living as a prisoner in a little cage in a building and going

through a whole long process of machinery to experience your death bit

by bit in a " sterile " lifeless environment with mechanized people

doing their jobs.I would much rather live free and be ripped apart ny

a lion or shot and killed by a hunter.

[Guest guest]

...One more thing, is that meat eaters are addicted to the taste and

fullness. I don't think anyone eats meat for health reasons and if so

they are mistaken, because it is easy to prove that a vegetarian diet

is healthier. (Of course, attitude and will factor in.)

[Guest guest]

>

> ..One more thing, is that meat eaters are addicted to the taste and

> fullness. I don't think anyone eats meat for health reasons and if so

> they are mistaken, because it is easy to prove that a vegetarian diet

> is healthier. (Of course, attitude and will factor in.)

>

I love vegetables. Sauted mushrooms and onions are so good on a

burger or a steak. I am glad that you are free to enjoy

vegetarianism, please allow me the same courtesy without insult. It

may be that someday, you realize you are starved for some satisfying

food as well. What is the difference if you buy some poor vegetable

and eat it. Don't you think it cries for its momma when you crunch

into it? No matter what you choose to eat, something is lost, What of

all those rows of plants, tended by machinery, in poor soil, who

produce their seeds in a last ditch effort in the hope of living on

through their young. And you eat them!!! How cruel is that? All

those peanuts, cooked to their death and then ground into a butter for

your pleasure? The list of injustices goes on and on. What makes you

think plants are unfeeling? Think of the abuse suffered by soy beans

to make you that burger-like patty thing. What God allows that to

happen to a bean? Maybe a better way to look at a persons diet is to

be appreciative and thankful for every morsel. Lighten up on us

unhealthy meat eaters. We just don't know how wrong we are and

deserve your pity.

3jsmom31

[Guest guest]

Some people are addicted to fruit too, so what does that mean?

You might wish to read some of Dr. Mercola's columns on the subject as he argues

that vegetarin diet is not healthier. See also the Beyond Vegetarianism site at

http://www.beyondveg.com/ for a viewpoint that differs from that you claim. An

of course, Nourishing Traditions is another good book showing the healthy

effects of eating a diet including meat. As for heath and healing I would refer

you to the book " We Want to Live " by Aajonus Vonderplanitz where he documents

the dramatic healing effects on people from consuming raw animal products (meat,

butter, etc).

I also have to wonder about a diet that is entirely deficient in an essential

vitamin (B-12).

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " mistymountainforest " <mistymountainforest@...>

> ..One more thing, is that meat eaters are addicted to the taste and

> fullness. I don't think anyone eats meat for health reasons and if so

> they are mistaken, because it is easy to prove that a vegetarian diet

> is healthier. (Of course, attitude and will factor in.)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not to mention the myriad numbers of insects, rodents, lizards, small mammels,

etc that are killed when those fields are harvested. I saw an article which

estimated that mouse and vole populations can be in the hundereds to thousands

per acre and that up to 50% can be killed by one pass from certain harvesting

machines.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " threejsmom31 " <threejsmom31@...>

>

> >

> > ..One more thing, is that meat eaters are addicted to the taste and

> > fullness. I don't think anyone eats meat for health reasons and if so

> > they are mistaken, because it is easy to prove that a vegetarian diet

> > is healthier. (Of course, attitude and will factor in.)

> >

>

> I love vegetables. Sauted mushrooms and onions are so good on a

> burger or a steak. I am glad that you are free to enjoy

> vegetarianism, please allow me the same courtesy without insult. It

> may be that someday, you realize you are starved for some satisfying

> food as well. What is the difference if you buy some poor vegetable

> and eat it. Don't you think it cries for its momma when you crunch

> into it? No matter what you choose to eat, something is lost, What of

> all those rows of plants, tended by machinery, in poor soil, who

> produce their seeds in a last ditch effort in the hope of living on

> through their young. And you eat them!!! How cruel is that? All

> those peanuts, cooked to their death and then ground into a butter for

> your pleasure? The list of injustices goes on and on. What makes you

> think plants are unfeeling? Think of the abuse suffered by soy beans

> to make you that burger-like patty thing. What God allows that to

> happen to a bean? Maybe a better way to look at a persons diet is to

> be appreciative and thankful for every morsel. Lighten up on us

> unhealthy meat eaters. We just don't know how wrong we are and

> deserve your pity.

> 3jsmom31

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>> What God allows that to

happen to a bean? Maybe a better way to look at a persons diet is to

be appreciative and thankful for every morsel. Lighten up on us

unhealthy meat eaters. We just don't know how wrong we are and

deserve your pity.

3jsmom31

Also think about all the poor rabbits and mice that are killed

by the tractors, and millions of animals displaced to make

room for farms. And the pesticide load on the planet! And

all those tractor fumes! Eating farm-raised vegies is very hard

on the planet (I try to get them from my backyard: wild, natural

berries, running around in their native state ... :-) )

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Animal protein has been in our diet before we speciated into homo erectus.

Grains however, require fire. A relatively recent invention. If you

doubt, toss back a fist full of wheat berries, fresh off the bud. Mmmmmm

mmmmm **choke cough gag** We do not have the teeth, or 4 stomaches

required to eat grain without fire, and arguably cookware. The new and

unhealthy food in our diet, is grain, not meat. Most primates will eat

locusts until they can't find any more. I know I will. I pickle them.

Old Yemen recipe.

mistymountainforest wrote:

> ..One more thing, is that meat eaters are addicted to the taste and

> fullness. I don't think anyone eats meat for health reasons and if so

> they are mistaken, because it is easy to prove that a vegetarian diet

> is healthier. (Of course, attitude and will factor in.)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I have to give my 2c.

I have friend who are vegetarians, and the diet suits them. But some people

(myself included) function VERY poorly on such a diet. If the blood type

diet is to be believed (and it works for many people) then vegetarianism is

anathema to Type O's.

Personally, I LOVE vegetables. I would choose some nice broccoli and

eggplant over a steak ANY day. However, I function quite poorly on a

strictly vegetarian diet. Many people are so. Many people at the very least

need some eggs or dairy or else vitamin supplementation if they are to

perform optimarlly on a vegetarian diet.

But contrast, Dr. Price and others have proved beyond doubt that it is

entirely possible to live and be healthy on a 100% meat diet. I have tried

such a diet for some considerable time (nearly a year). It really is GREAT

for energy, provided you don't overcook the meat. High fat, moderate

protein, zero carb.

However, I hate it, and I will never eat that way again unless I have to.

The point is, one cannot advocate vegetarianism as the ultimate diet based

purely on how well it benefits a person's health. There is NO evidence to

suggest vegetarianism is a more healthy diet and will provde more energy.

For many the contrary is true.

On moral grounds, it seems a silly point to argue. Sure, I would like to

only eat meat that was raised in a humane way and fed on grass and

antibiotic free, but for many, this is a luxury they can't afford. Here in

africa, starvation is huge! People just want some food and they don't care

where it comes from.

I don't believe in karma. In fact, from a Christian perspective, man has

dominion over the animals and is entitled to kill and eat them. Was animal

sacrifice not a Jewish rite since time immemorial? Of course, one could

argue that before the fall, Adam and Eve must (strictly speaking) have been

vegetarianisms.

Again though, the whole argument is moot. You are entitled to believe as you

do, but cannot rationally prove any such point, just as I cannot prove the

counter argument. I don't believe there is anything wrong with slaughtering

chickens en-mass for human consumption. But that's just me.

I appreciate your opinion, but this sort of arguing leads nowhere. Everybody

is simply going to give their opinion. It's always personal. It's always

subjective. Arguing about diet can get as bad as arguing about religion. If

vegetarianism works for you, kudos. I wish it worked so well for me since I

actually prefer it. I'd miss eggs though. But I'm over eating meat (must be

that year of meat-only dieting). I actually even tried fruitarianism once.

That was an absolute disaster.

Anyway, let's all live and let live! This is an argument nobody can win.

On 10/24/06, mistymountainforest <mistymountainforest@...> wrote:

>

> ..One more thing, is that meat eaters are addicted to the taste and

> fullness. I don't think anyone eats meat for health reasons and if so

> they are mistaken, because it is easy to prove that a vegetarian diet

> is healthier. (Of course, attitude and will factor in.)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL I love threads like this... " most meat eaters " sheesh if you want to

stereotype and generalize why don't I start with " most

vegan/vegetarians " ...to each his own is what it's about.

I was a vegetarian for 3 years my GF was for 10.. We owe our sanity and

robust health to eating meat again. Balance is the only thing that makes

sense (and feels right) to me.

We're animals too, we eat what we can get, and what we can afford.. Ideally

we would all raise our own veggies and livestock.. We had chickens, dairy

goats and a small garden for awhile, but with the economy and state of the

world it is no easy task to have the time to raise ALL of your

food AND afford to maintain it as well.

There are alot of areas/directions in life in which a person can choose to

evolve, some are inevitable but what you eat is only a portion of conscious

evolution, acceptance and objectivity for others and their choices is far

more rewarding and important...

It feels good to say to a person.. " hey whatever works for you " that is a

sign that you have faith in the universe and faith in that individual to

make the correct choice on his or her own.

Advice is pointless...A wise person doesn't need it and an ignorant person

won't understand it...

Beau

[Guest guest]

So very well said Dirk

On 10/24/06, Dirk Coetsee <dirk.coetsee@...> wrote:

>

> Sorry, I have to give my 2c.

>

> I have friend who are vegetarians, and the diet suits them. But some

> people

> (myself included) function VERY poorly on such a diet. If the blood type

> diet is to be believed (and it works for many people) then vegetarianism

> is

> anathema to Type O's.

>

> Personally, I LOVE vegetables. I would choose some nice broccoli and

> eggplant over a steak ANY day. However, I function quite poorly on a

> strictly vegetarian diet. Many people are so. Many people at the very

> least

> need some eggs or dairy or else vitamin supplementation if they are to

> perform optimarlly on a vegetarian diet.

>

> But contrast, Dr. Price and others have proved beyond doubt that it is

> entirely possible to live and be healthy on a 100% meat diet. I have tried

> such a diet for some considerable time (nearly a year). It really is GREAT

> for energy, provided you don't overcook the meat. High fat, moderate

> protein, zero carb.

>

> However, I hate it, and I will never eat that way again unless I have to.

>

> The point is, one cannot advocate vegetarianism as the ultimate diet based

> purely on how well it benefits a person's health. There is NO evidence to

> suggest vegetarianism is a more healthy diet and will provde more energy.

> For many the contrary is true.

>

> On moral grounds, it seems a silly point to argue. Sure, I would like to

> only eat meat that was raised in a humane way and fed on grass and

> antibiotic free, but for many, this is a luxury they can't afford. Here in

> africa, starvation is huge! People just want some food and they don't care

> where it comes from.

>

> I don't believe in karma. In fact, from a Christian perspective, man has

> dominion over the animals and is entitled to kill and eat them. Was animal

> sacrifice not a Jewish rite since time immemorial? Of course, one could

> argue that before the fall, Adam and Eve must (strictly speaking) have

> been

> vegetarianisms.

>

> Again though, the whole argument is moot. You are entitled to believe as

> you

> do, but cannot rationally prove any such point, just as I cannot prove the

> counter argument. I don't believe there is anything wrong with

> slaughtering

> chickens en-mass for human consumption. But that's just me.

>

> I appreciate your opinion, but this sort of arguing leads nowhere.

> Everybody

> is simply going to give their opinion. It's always personal. It's always

> subjective. Arguing about diet can get as bad as arguing about religion.

> If

> vegetarianism works for you, kudos. I wish it worked so well for me since

> I

> actually prefer it. I'd miss eggs though. But I'm over eating meat (must

> be

> that year of meat-only dieting). I actually even tried fruitarianism once.

> That was an absolute disaster.

>

> Anyway, let's all live and let live! This is an argument nobody can win.

> On 10/24/06, mistymountainforest

<mistymountainforest@...<mistymountainforest%40>>

> wrote:

> >

> > ..One more thing, is that meat eaters are addicted to the taste and

> > fullness. I don't think anyone eats meat for health reasons and if so

> > they are mistaken, because it is easy to prove that a vegetarian diet

> > is healthier. (Of course, attitude and will factor in.)

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

>> Most meat eaters are negative,

>>unhappy and fat.Meat causes disease.If people were meant to eat

>>

>>

>meat

>

>

>>it wouldn't have negative effects.

>>

>

>

And those people who can't eat certain vegetable products? I guess my

children are damned to the lowest rings of hell, since there isn't a

single form of non-animal protein that they are able to tolerate.

--s, whose family experiences all kinds of problems from grains, beans,

nuts, and other non-animal foods, but has been steadily getting better

on a heavily meat diet.

[Guest guest]

Indeed Beau, I've eaten a lot of different ways in my life and I've found that

for myself, following anything that is an " -ism " works out poorly for me in the

long run. Some days I eat almost all raw veggies and fruits, some days savory

meats, potatoes, & pickles. I have a lovely rice bowl hand-made on Orcas Island

(it has grooves on the top to hold chopsticks) and some days nothing gives me

more pleasure than to fill it with steamed rice (white or brown...depends on my

mood), some salmon (often sweet smoked), a dab of butter and a splash of nama

shouyu. Maybe some pickled ginger or kimchee on the side. I'm grateful that I

live in a place where I can have a meal such as that and happy that I can give

myself what I want without worrying about a particular dietary philosophy.

We're moving soon and hope to expand our gardening quite a bit.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Beau Barrett " <Beau.Barrett@...>

> LOL I love threads like this... " most meat eaters " sheesh if you want to

> stereotype and generalize why don't I start with " most

> vegan/vegetarians " ...to each his own is what it's about.

> I was a vegetarian for 3 years my GF was for 10.. We owe our sanity and

> robust health to eating meat again. Balance is the only thing that makes

> sense (and feels right) to me.

> We're animals too, we eat what we can get, and what we can afford.. Ideally

> we would all raise our own veggies and livestock.. We had chickens, dairy

> goats and a small garden for awhile, but with the economy and state of the

> world it is no easy task to have the time to raise ALL of your

> food AND afford to maintain it as well.

> There are alot of areas/directions in life in which a person can choose to

> evolve, some are inevitable but what you eat is only a portion of conscious

> evolution, acceptance and objectivity for others and their choices is far

> more rewarding and important...

> It feels good to say to a person.. " hey whatever works for you " that is a

> sign that you have faith in the universe and faith in that individual to

> make the correct choice on his or her own.

> Advice is pointless...A wise person doesn't need it and an ignorant person

> won't understand it...

> Beau

[Guest guest]

HAhaha: " Advice is pointless...A wise person doesn't need it and an ignorant

person

won't understand it... "

I've never heard that before. Classic! How true

On 10/24/06, Beau Barrett <Beau.Barrett@...> wrote:

>

> LOL I love threads like this... " most meat eaters " sheesh if you want to

> stereotype and generalize why don't I start with " most

> vegan/vegetarians " ...to each his own is what it's about.

> I was a vegetarian for 3 years my GF was for 10.. We owe our sanity and

> robust health to eating meat again. Balance is the only thing that makes

> sense (and feels right) to me.

> We're animals too, we eat what we can get, and what we can afford..

> Ideally

> we would all raise our own veggies and livestock.. We had chickens, dairy

> goats and a small garden for awhile, but with the economy and state of the

> world it is no easy task to have the time to raise ALL of your

> food AND afford to maintain it as well.

> There are alot of areas/directions in life in which a person can choose to

> evolve, some are inevitable but what you eat is only a portion of

> conscious

> evolution, acceptance and objectivity for others and their choices is far

> more rewarding and important...

> It feels good to say to a person.. " hey whatever works for you " that is a

> sign that you have faith in the universe and faith in that individual to

> make the correct choice on his or her own.

> Advice is pointless...A wise person doesn't need it and an ignorant person

> won't understand it...

> Beau

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a positive existence to me ...the world has enough

duality as it is..it is truely a liberation to just do what feels right at

the time...

I read in a book called " The book of secrets " that it is not wrong to

induldge so long as you do it in a maximum state of awareness...a nice way

to live IMO...

Dirk..the advice quote is from a fortune cookie that I'll never forget, it's

rather liberating to just let people make their own choices, it's one thing

if a person asks for advice but for most of us this is only asking for

confirmation of an answer that we already know.

We'll all be just fine ;~)

Beau

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I must confess I ALWAYS ask the advice of at least a half dozen people

and then ignore it on any major decision. I just like to know what people

think...

What I have found, however, is that typically my mother is always right.

Sounds stupid and cliched, but I swear that woman is smart (or maybe she's

just been around the block?). 95% of the time she will give me advice, I'll

ignore it, and I'll be sorry. But hey! When you learn the hard way, you

remember...

On 10/24/06, Beau Barrett <Beau.Barrett@...> wrote:

>

> Sounds like a positive existence to me ...the world has enough

> duality as it is..it is truely a liberation to just do what feels right at

> the time...

> I read in a book called " The book of secrets " that it is not wrong to

> induldge so long as you do it in a maximum state of awareness...a nice way

> to live IMO...

> Dirk..the advice quote is from a fortune cookie that I'll never forget,

> it's

> rather liberating to just let people make their own choices, it's one

> thing

> if a person asks for advice but for most of us this is only asking for

> confirmation of an answer that we already know.

> We'll all be just fine ;~)

> Beau

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Suzanne,

This is a peculiar problem. What symptoms do they get if they eat no animal

products? Does it even happen with, e.g. broccoli? Sounds like the most

terrible dysbiosis. Have you tried EM probiotics?

On 10/24/06, Suzanne Noakes <snoakes@...> wrote:

>

>

> >> Most meat eaters are negative,

> >>unhappy and fat.Meat causes disease.If people were meant to eat

> >>

> >>

> >meat

> >

> >

> >>it wouldn't have negative effects.

> >>

> >

> >

> And those people who can't eat certain vegetable products? I guess my

> children are damned to the lowest rings of hell, since there isn't a

> single form of non-animal protein that they are able to tolerate.

>

> --s, whose family experiences all kinds of problems from grains, beans,

> nuts, and other non-animal foods, but has been steadily getting better

> on a heavily meat diet.

>

>