Re: Mineral deficiencies and hypothyroidism

November 5, 2008

You are using a tiny, unrepresentative [and thus flawed] sample. Try a

sample of PhD's in the hard sciences and see how many support Brownstein

and Optimox.

..

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@...

>

<mailto:circe@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Mineral%20deficiencies%20and%20hy\

pothyroidism>

> graciabee <graciabee>

>

> Tue Nov 4, 2008 9:45 am (PST)

>

> I have actually found the reverse to be true! the most brilliant ppl

> are using iodine.

> Gracia

> (both of my parents were considered geniuses)

>

> You certainly have a right to your opinion. However, among the

> intelligent and educated people of the entire world it is Optimox and

> Dr. Brownstein who are totally devoid of respect.

>

November 5, 2008

Hi, Rick. If you want to research yourself just put " hair analysis

fraud " into Google and then determine whether any of the links appear to

be valid. I suspect you will be convinced. But perhaps more convincing

to you would be the message from Chuck, which I'm including in case you

missed it:

..

Quote:

>

> Posted by: " gumboyaya@... " gumboyaya@...

>

<mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Mineral%20deficiencies%20and%20hypo\

thyroidism>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

> Tue Nov 4, 2008 1:29 pm (PST)

>

> Fragrance,

>

> I agree with .

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > Why do you think hair analysis is not reliable.

>

> Perhaps he was influenced by the American Medical Association's

> Committee on Cutaneous Health and Cosmetics, which concluded in 1974,

> that,

>

> " The state of health of the body may be entirely unrelated to the

> physical and chemical condition of the hair . . . Although severe

> deficiency states of an essential element are often associated with

> low concentrations of the element in hair, there are no data that

> indicate that low concentrations of an element signify low tissue

> levels nor that high concentrations reflect high tissue stores.

> Therefore . . . hair metal levels would rarely help a physician select

> effective treatment. " Lazar P. Hair analysis: What does it tell us?

> JAMA 229:1908-1909, 1974.

>

> In general, the mineral content of hair can be significantly affected

> by shampoo, bleach, and hair dyes. No analytic technique can tell

> whether an element came from your food or from something you put on

> your head.

> Further, most minerals can be affected by the color, diameter and rate

> of growth of an individual's hair, the season of the year, the

> geographic location, and the age and gender of the individual.

> Consequently, no one has been able to standardize or measure normal

> ranges for hair minerals. Since there are no reference ranges or

> standards, none of the places that offer hair analysis can claim to

> have compared to a published standard.

>

> Chuck

..

End of quote. As you know, Chuck is a scientist; and he certainly can

state it better than I. As a matter of fact he would be the perfect

person to ask if cell walls are permeable to thyroid hormones in the

blood. I may be mistaken, but I believe he was the source of my

information. But if not blame me, not him... Perhaps more important in

hair analysis than the fact that accurately measured results don't mean

anything is the fact that the same sample sent to the same lab [as well

as multiple labs] give widely varying results. So what you have are

totally undependable results that would not mean anything even if they

were consistent. You simply cannot make an intelligent and educated

decision from such results. OTOH if you want to depend upon the placebo

effect or psychological results of such quackery you might find them

beneficial.

As for this statement:

>I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS. AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, MY INTRACELLULAR

>MINERAL TESTS (NOT THROUGH HAIR ANALYSIS) DID NOT CORRELATE AT ALL

>WITH STANDARD BLOOD MINERAL TESTS.

..

If any hair analysis test results happen to agree with any accurate

intracellular mineral tests the results will be astounding, and nothing

more than coincidence.

Rick, my reason for questioning test methods and results that either

have no credible support or in fact are proven to be cons, quackery or

simply unreliable is this: You cannot reliably treat ANY condition base

upon erroneous data. I don't know the answers to why some people have

major difficulties in getting help with hypothyroidism, but whatever is

done needs to be based upon accurate data as far as possible. I'm sure

that as a [former?] scientist you will agree.

Best of luck,

..

> Posted by: " richardtcbatty " rbatty@...

>

<mailto:rbatty@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Mineral%20deficiencies%20and%2\

0hypothyroidism>

> richardtcbatty <richardtcbatty>

>

> Tue Nov 4, 2008 11:03 am (PST)

>

> ,

>

> I've inserted my comments in CAPS within your post.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Rick

>

> >

> > I think there is no point in taking ANY test that cannot measure

> what it

> > presumes to measure in any kind of predictable way.

>

> BUT THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, NOT ONLY WITH THYROID. I BELIEVE IT'S

> WELL KNOWN THAT ONE CAN LOW MINERAL LEVELS IN THE BODY WITH NORMAL

>

> If you have EVER

> > found any support in credible research for hair analysis for medical

> > diagnostics I'd be interested in seeing it. There's no point in

> > spending your money if the results are totally undependable.

>

> IN THEORY I AGREE AS I'VE BEEN A SCIENTIST AT A CERTAIN POINT IN MY

> CAREER. BUT LACK OF CREDIBLE RESEARCH DOES NOT MEAN THAT RESULTS ARE

> UNDEPENDABLE. THERE ARE ALWAYS THINGS WE HAVE YET TO DISCOVER AND

> SOME OF US TURN TO UNPROVEN METHODS WHEN WE GET NO HELP FROM STANDARD

> MEDICAL APPROACHES.

> >

> > It's true there are some percentage of hypothyroid patients who do not

> > seem to do well with conventional allopathic treatment. However, even

> > in those cases it's pointless to do a test upon whose results you

> cannot

> > depend.

>

> CAN YOU POINT US TO STUDIES THAT SHOW HAIR ANALYSIS IS UNDEPENDABLE?

> I'M NOT SURE IT IS BUT AS I MENTIONED, SOME OF MY RESULTS DID

> CORRELATE WITH INTRACELLULAR MINERAL TESTS WHICH THEMSELVES DID NOT AT

> ALL CORRELATE WITH STANDARD BLOOD MINERAL TESTS.

>

> In such a case you're just as likely to take exactly the WRONG

> > mineral as the right one.

>

> I AGREE, IF THE TEST IS UNDEPENDABLE.

>

> In any case I think you can get dependable

> > blood mineral content from any competent lab.

>

> I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS. AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, MY INTRACELLULAR

> MINERAL TESTS (NOT THROUGH HAIR ANALYSIS) DID NOT CORRELATE AT ALL

> WITH STANDARD BLOOD MINERAL TESTS.

> >

> > As for thyroid hormones within cells it's my understanding [and I

> may be

> > wrong] that cell walls do not present ANY obstacle to same, and it

> > that's accurate then the hormone concentration within the cell is MOL

> > the same as outside the cell.

>

> WOW, I'D LIKE TO SEE PROOF OF THAT. WITHOUT SEARCHING THE NET, IT

> SEEMS TO ME THAT THE BODY IS SO DELICATELY BALANCED. I THINK WE KNOW

> CELL WALLS CAN BE PERMEABLE TO DIFFERENT DEGREES FOR MINERALS SO WHY

> NOT FOR HORMONES? IF PEOPLE SUCH AS MYSELF CAN TAKE HUGE DOSAGES OF

> THYROID HORMONE WITHOUT HYPERTHYROID SYMPTOMS, IT SEEMS EITHER THE

> HORMONE IS NOT GETTING INTO THE CELL OR NOT WORKING PROPERLY AT THE

> RECEPTOR LEVEL.

>

> >

> > As for why some percentage of people don't benefit for conventional

> > treatment the short answer is I don't know. There is a least some

> > anecdotal evidence that it MAY be related to damage caused by an

> > extended period of untreated or undertreated hypothyroidism in some

> > patients. Maybe some level of Myxedema coma? In which case perhaps

> the

> > damage would not be reversed soon after starting treatment, if at all.

>

> WE KNOW PETROLEUM PRODUCTS CAN IMITATE HORMONES IN THE BODY AND THUS

> CAUSE HORMONAL PROBLEMS (E.G. BIG DROPS IN MEN'S SPERM LEVELS OVER THE

> PAST 50 OR SO YEARS). I DON'T THINK IT'S HUGE LEAP OF FAITH TO THINK

> THAT POLLUTANTS (INCLUDING PETROLEUM PRODUCTS AND TOXIC METALS) COULD

> DAMAGE HORMONE RECEPTORS OR SOMEHOW PREVENT THE HORMONES FROM WORKING

> PROPERLY.

>

> >

> > Even the percentage of people who do not benefit from conventional

> > treatment is hotly debated. From certain numbers available it appears

> > to be under 5%, but lists such as this tend to indicate a much higher

> > number. However, this list would tend to self select for same.

> Many of

> > those same people seem to benefit from some form of T3 such as Armour.

>

> WHATEVER THE %, THE KEY POINT IS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO PRESENT

> WITH HYPOTHYROID SYMPTOMS AND ARE NOT HELPED BY TRADITIONAL APPROACHES.

>

> > I short I don't have much of an answer for you except what I've already

> > given: Whatever course you take and to whatever extent you depend upon

> > medical tests they need to be tests that at least can measure what they

> > purport to measure. Hair analysis sorely fails this criteria.

>

> IS THERE PROOF OF THIS?

>

> THANKS FOR THE DISCUSSION. AT ANY TIME IN HISTORY THERE IS STUFF WE

> DON'T KNOW AND IT APPEARS THAT IS WHERE WE CERTAIN SETS OF HYPOTHYROID

> SYMPTOMS...

>

> CHEERS,

>

> RICK

>

> > Best of luck,

> >

> > .

November 5, 2008

You've pointed out a couple of the problems. One is shampoos,

conditioners and whatever else is on the hair.

The other problem is perhaps more difficult. If you have long hair, say

24 " long then the minerals deposited within the hair was established

when the hair strand was about to emerge from your head. That had to be

months ago. So you should get a completely different result from an

accurate test if you sent in a sample cut close to your scalp unless

nothing has changed in the intervening months.

But since you cannot get any kind of consistent or reliable results it

really doesn't matter. Flipping a coin would give you as much

diagnostic help.

..

>

> Posted by: " fragrance_seen " fragrance_seen@...

>

<mailto:fragrance_seen@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Mineral%20deficiencies%20and\

%20hypothyroidism>

> fragrance_seen <fragrance_seen>

>

> Wed Nov 5, 2008 12:29 am (PST)

>

> Sue,

>

> I forgot something else,, I am taking vitamins/iron every day now. Do

> you think it is necessary to stop them for a few days to make sure the

> accuracy. And I heard that I should use shampoo for children a few days

> before cutting the samples. What did you do then? Thanks!

>

> Fragrance

November 5, 2008

HI Fragrance,

They test for

Calcium

Magnesium

Sodium

Potassium

Iron

Copper

Manganese

Zinc

Chromium

Selenium

Phosophorus

Lead

Mercury

Cadmium

Arsenic

Aluminum

Nickel

Cobalt

Molybendum

Lithium

And Boron

About 3 years ago, I had two HUGE metal/mercury filling removed they were

very very old and probably leaking into my body for some time, and the year

I had them removed ³some² mercury did show up in my hair analysis and

without my knowing it, or thinking of it, my nutritionist who consults with

me, asked I had mercury fillings removed, which I did. They did not use a

mouth guard or anything so even that ³little² bit had gotten into my body

but the good thing is my body detoxes well and put it out... That¹s what

hair analysis shows ‹what out bodies are putting OUT.

My mercury levels are back down to normal.

I have one large mercury filling left and I imagine when I do have that

replaced, mercury will once again register...

Only time will tell.

Sue

On 11/5/08 2:01 AM, " fragrance_seen " <fragrance_seen@...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Sue.

>

> How many minerals/elements did you have them tested for hair analysis?

> You said your mecury level is a little bit high?! How could it be!?

> OMG...it is toxic to human health!

>

> Fragrance

>

>> >

>>> > >

>>> > > Hi, Rick!

>>> > >

>>> > > I am considering to have a hair analysis, too. For nutriology, I

> think

>>> > > testing all vitamins is also important to find if we are vitamin

>>> > > defficiencies. although vitamin tests are blood based.

>>> > >

>>> > > Fragrance

>>> > >

>> >

November 5, 2008

I have never been told to stop any of my vitimins/minerals but I can¹t see

how that would hurt, probably a good idea.

Also, they do say to use baby shampoo.

I have been using the same people for 5 years and have been able to see

what¹s going on with me as I make dietary, lifestyle and supplement changes

via the hair testing.

Why I even took it in the first place was cuz I just felt ³off² and wanted

to see if anything ³weird² was going on with me and since doctors always

said, other than hypoT and high cholesterol, you are basically healthy but I

felt as if something was making me ³ill.²

I did it out of curiosity and concern.

When I saw my potassium was always so low and my ratios overall overall

skewed, that made sense to me why I didn¹t feel as well as the traditional

doctors felt I should.

As I mentioned, I do believe the body strives to find balance, that¹s pretty

natural and obvious but if we do things to hinder than then we don¹t really

give it a fighting chance.

I felt that ³just² because I had quit smoking and drinking, I did my part

and that was that. But there was more going on, nutrients I was lacking in

and lifestyle changes ‹ mainly increasing sleep and decreasing stress that I

personally needed to see ³proof² of that really opened my eyes to how I was

letting my body go so far off its natural course.

Sue

On 11/5/08 2:29 AM, " fragrance_seen " <fragrance_seen@...> wrote:

>

> Sue,

>

> I forgot something else,, I am taking vitamins/iron every day now. Do

> you think it is necessary to stop them for a few days to make sure the

> accuracy. And I heard that I should use shampoo for children a few days

> before cutting the samples. What did you do then? Thanks!

>

> Fragrance

November 5, 2008

The only thing that is CRITICAL is that you cut the hair VERY VERY close to

your scalp and only use the 1.5 2 inches CLOSEST TO YOUR SCALP so it shows

what it going on with you NOW since hair grows about 1/2 inch per month.

You can get pretty creative and find places to cut to hide the places you

cut ‹ I wear my hair long so it¹s not a problem for me.

They wash the hair before they test it also.

Sue

On 11/5/08 2:29 AM, " fragrance_seen " <fragrance_seen@...> wrote:

>

> Sue,

>

> I forgot something else,, I am taking vitamins/iron every day now. Do

> you think it is necessary to stop them for a few days to make sure the

> accuracy. And I heard that I should use shampoo for children a few days

> before cutting the samples. What did you do then? Thanks!

>

> Fragrance

November 5, 2008

Sue...

We are in the same boat. I have mercury filling in one of my tooth,

too..So I am worried about the mercury toxin. Following is the link for

the mercury levels in urine for more accuracy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15611750

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15611750>

So after your fillings were removed, your mercury reading in hair

analysis was down immediately..That's great...That showed that the hair

analysis is useful/accurate somehow.

Fragrance

> >> >

> >>> > >

> >>> > > Hi, Rick!

> >>> > >

> >>> > > I am considering to have a hair analysis, too. For nutriology,

I

> > think

> >>> > > testing all vitamins is also important to find if we are

vitamin

> >>> > > defficiencies. although vitamin tests are blood based.

> >>> > >

> >>> > > Fragrance

> >>> > >

> >> >

November 5, 2008

Sue,

They told me to cut the hair close to the scalp, too. But you know, I

take the thyroid hormone treatment these months. And I found my hair

grows crazily, much faster than ever before! I was planing to go to the

barber's to have my hair cut again. I take iron supplement now to make

the Ferritin level elevated, so I think it would affect the iron results

somehow..

Fragrance

>

> >

> > Sue,

> >

> > I forgot something else,, I am taking vitamins/iron every day now.

Do

> > you think it is necessary to stop them for a few days to make sure

the

> > accuracy. And I heard that I should use shampoo for children a few

days

> > before cutting the samples. What did you do then? Thanks!

> >

> > Fragrance

>

November 5, 2008

Thanks for the links. Wow, I never thought of how much the dentists

themselves have been exposed to the mercury as well 4x as much as control

subjects, makes sense. And they used hair, nails and urine to test.

Yeah, out of 5 years of hair testing only that ONE TIME did I show more

than a trace of mercury and then it went right back down so one more to

go... And I will be mercury free.

I see no quakery involved in hair analysis at all. Like I say, I pay about

55 bucks for it, once a year and it includes a short consult.

My low potassium showed up for years in my hair before it finally showed up

in my blood this year.

If there is a resource available that can uncover something conventional

medicine cannot, we must at least give it a try if we are able and willing.

IMHO.

Sue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_analysis

³Analysis of hair samples has many advantages as a preliminary screening

method for the presence of toxic substances deleterious to health after

exposures in air, dust, sediment, soil and water, food and toxins in the

environment. The advantages of hair analysis include the non-invasiveness,

low cost and the ability to measure a large number of, potentially

interacting, toxic and biologically essential elements. Hence, head hair

analysis is now increasingly being used as a preliminary test to see whether

individuals have absorbed poisons linked to behavioral or health problems.

There appears to be genuine validity to the use of hair analysis in the

measurement of life-long, or long-term heavy metal burden, if not the

measurement of general elemental analysis. Several interesting studies

including the analysis of Ludwig van Beethoven's hair have been conducted in

conjunction with the National Institutes of Health, and Centers for Disease

Control and Prevention to name a few.

A 1999 study on hair concentrations of calcium, iron, and zinc in pregnant

women and effects of supplementation, it was concluded that " From the

analyses, it was clear that hair concentrations of Ca, Fe, and Zn could

reflect the effects of supplementation...Finally, it could be concluded that

mineral element deficiencies might be convalesced by adequate compensations

of mineral element nutrients.²

On 11/5/08 8:34 PM, " fragrance_seen " <fragrance_seen@...> wrote:

>

> Sue...

>

> We are in the same boat. I have mercury filling in one of my tooth,

> too..So I am worried about the mercury toxin. Following is the link for

> the mercury levels in urine for more accuracy.

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15611750

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15611750>

>

> So after your fillings were removed, your mercury reading in hair

> analysis was down immediately..That's great...That showed that the hair

> analysis is useful/accurate somehow.

>

> Fragrance

>

>>>>> > >> >

>>>>>>> > >>> > >

>>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi, Rick!

>>>>>>> > >>> > >

>>>>>>> > >>> > > I am considering to have a hair analysis, too. For nutriology,

> I

>>> > > think

>>>>>>> > >>> > > testing all vitamins is also important to find if we are

> vitamin

>>>>>>> > >>> > > defficiencies. although vitamin tests are blood based.

>>>>>>> > >>> > >

>>>>>>> > >>> > > Fragrance

>>>>>>> > >>> > >

>>>>> > >> >

November 6, 2008

ly, , he is getting results, and I really don't care how many

" scientists " agree with him. I have little respect for many in the medical and

scientific field these days because of the arrogance, lack of conscience, and

lack of compassion displayed by so many in these fields. Results mean much more

to me than scientific studies that may just be flawed so that they back up the

authors suppositions or theories. I have seen too much of this type of thing in

the so called " scientific " fields that I have lost much respect for the

so-called peer review, which in itself is flawed. Your arguments just don't hold

much water for me. Peer reveiw can mean just that - you submit to those whom you

think will agree with you the most and ignore those who might disagree. I have

seen THAT also. I am in hot disagreement with much of what is going on in the

scientific community, and I no longer think that cases of paying doctors or

scientists or other

professionals to sign off or back up someones work is isolated. I watch this

type of thing and it is becoming more common. The process itself is too flawed

for me to any longer trust it.

F.

http://catherineshypohelljourney.blogspot.com/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

www.naturalthyroidchoices.com

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/

www.thinkbeforeyoupink.org

November 6, 2008

Well, using the AMA as a standard is not my idea of a high standard! A more

prejudiced body of puffed up, egotistical, narrow-minded so called scientists is

not my idea of any kind of fair review. The beginnings of this institution are

highly suspect and their continued arrogance and profound ignorance in some

matters is scary. They mislead, sometimes deliberately, and are hand in hand

with the arrogant pharmaceutical companies, or should I say hand in pocket?

F.

http://catherineshypohelljourney.blogspot.com/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

www.naturalthyroidchoices.com

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/

www.thinkbeforeyoupink.org

November 6, 2008

Hi ,

I don't know whether hair mineral analysis is valid or not. I do

agree with you that it is best to treat based on sound scientific

research if possible.

There does seem to be some scientific knowledge of the roles of

certain minerals in changing cell permeability and for the conversion

of T4 to T3. So I think it is worth a shot to try eating a high

potassium diet and add calcium, magnesium and selenium supplements.

It's a fairly safe, low-cost and generally health-enhancing (i.e.

eating a high potassium diet) trial. However, I would much prefer to

have some scientific method to know the required amounts since

minerals work in combination.

I've been dealing with hypothyroid symptoms on a consistent basis now

for over 15 years (and 23 years on and off). Even " Top Docs " have not

been able to treat me successfully. I did have some success years ago

with super high doses of T4 (which I arrived upon by researching the

endocrinology journals) and then super high doses of time-release T3.

So I've tried to act as a detective and my experience (and the

experience of others on high doses) makes me think that there must be

something going on regarding either the permeability of cells to

thyroid hormone or difficulty in the conversion of T4 to T3 within the

cell. It would be great to know if mineral deficiencies were the cause.

Thanks,

Rick

November 6, 2008

Rick,

That¹s an interesting point.

I have been treated with T4 and T3 for six years and I have yet to feel it¹s

successful.

My weight still won¹t come off as it should for my caloric intake/exercise

regimen, my cholesterol continues to be whacky and I feel I would need those

³mega doses² you speak of but then I would get heart palps and for women I

know, continual and prolonged use of high doses of thyroid meds leads to

bone loss, I am guessing for men as well.

The notion that maybe it¹s due to mineral imbalance is a worthy avenue to

pursue and one I am working on.

As mine get closer to where they need to be my body does seem to do more of

what¹s it¹s supposed to.

Sue

On 11/6/08 11:57 AM, " richardtcbatty " <rbatty@...> wrote:

>

> I've been dealing with hypothyroid symptoms on a consistent basis now

> for over 15 years (and 23 years on and off). Even " Top Docs " have not

> been able to treat me successfully. I did have some success years ago

> with super high doses of T4 (which I arrived upon by researching the

> endocrinology journals) and then super high doses of time-release T3.

> So I've tried to act as a detective and my experience (and the

> experience of others on high doses) makes me think that there must be

> something going on regarding either the permeability of cells to

> thyroid hormone or difficulty in the conversion of T4 to T3 within the

> cell. It would be great to know if mineral deficiencies were the cause.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Rick

November 7, 2008

You have a totally distorted view of the peer review process. No

reputable scientist will risk his total career by signing of on

something that upon inspection will prove to be bogus. To do so would

destroy him professionally, financially and personally. Professional

peer review submits the work to the entire field for analysis,

criticism and replication. The process itself is very good at weeding

out any " bad apples " ; and in discouraging any nefarious practices. If

you know of any less than honorable activities then kindly report them

to the proper channels. Any scientist " selling " himself will find

himself out of business.

If you could quote a bit of the message to which you reply then I would

know who " is getting results " . FAIK he may be scoring 100%; or

basically no more than placebo, because I don't know to whom you have

reference.

You have your choice: You can make decisions based upon facts or upon

quacks. Take your pick.

..

>

> Posted by: " F. " cccquilter@...

>

<mailto:cccquilter@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Mineral%20deficiencies%20and%20h\

ypothyroidism>

> cccquilter <cccquilter>

>

> Thu Nov 6, 2008 5:30 am (PST)

>

> ly, , he is getting results, and I really don't care how

> many " scientists " agree with him. I have little respect for many in

> the medical and scientific field these days because of the arrogance,

> lack of conscience, and lack of compassion displayed by so many in

> these fields. Results mean much more to me than scientific studies

> that may just be flawed so that they back up the authors suppositions

> or theories. I have seen too much of this type of thing in the so

> called " scientific " fields that I have lost much respect for the

> so-called peer review, which in itself is flawed. Your arguments just

> don't hold much water for me. Peer reveiw can mean just that - you

> submit to those whom you think will agree with you the most and ignore

> those who might disagree. I have seen THAT also. I am in hot

> disagreement with much of what is going on in the scientific

> community, and I no longer think that cases of paying doctors or

> scientists or other

> professionals to sign off or back up someones work is isolated. I

> watch this type of thing and it is becoming more common. The process

> itself is too flawed for me to any longer trust it.

>

> F.

November 7, 2008

In the larger view my opinion and yours mean little or nothing.

Unfounded and baseless charges of arrogance, narrow-mindedness,

stupidity and so on aimed at those of demonstrated accomplishment,

education and intellect do not enhance the reputation of the accuser.

I will have to accept that you have a completely different world view

than I. I can live with that.

..

>

> Posted by: " F. " cccquilter@...

>

<mailto:cccquilter@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Mineral%20deficiencies%20and%20h\

ypothyroidism>

> cccquilter <cccquilter>

>

> Thu Nov 6, 2008 5:36 am (PST)

>

> Well, using the AMA as a standard is not my idea of a high standard! A

> more prejudiced body of puffed up, egotistical, narrow-minded so

> called scientists is not my idea of any kind of fair review. The

> beginnings of this institution are highly suspect and their continued

> arrogance and profound ignorance in some matters is scary. They

> mislead, sometimes deliberately, and are hand in hand with the

> arrogant pharmaceutical companies, or should I say hand in pocket?

>

> F.

November 7, 2008

There is IMHO a solid scientific idea behind the assertion that certain

chemicals or minerals found in the hair reflect conditions that exist

[or at one time existed] in the body. But AFAIK there has never been

any research that established any standards or guidelines as to what

these findings mean WRT health diagnostics. They may well serve as an

indicator, but what are they indicating? Without standards you're

shooting in the dark even if you were able to get consistent results.

And you WOULD be able to at least get consistent results if you were

dealing with a reputable, quality lab. Unfortunately, as there are no

standards for diagnostic results the field has attracted many con

artists who use it to either sell questionable products to gullible

people; or simple to sell another quack product/service. As long as the

same sample sent in under different names gives very widely varying

results you're quite simply dealing with a con artist or quack. If

you're dealing with a reputable lab that gives consistent results you

would at least have some kind of guideline; but without standards you're

still on you own as to what the results mean.

I'm sorry you're one of the group who have difficulty getting results

from conventional medical practices. We've heard from a lot of those

here. I often feel guilty that I am not among that group; although I

cannot say I'm sorry for that fact. I'm lucky in that I have no

symptoms on nothing but Synthroid.

I know very little about problems with T4 to T3 conversion beyond the

fact that it probably occurs. Nor am I educated WRT binding or other T4

[or T3] utilization problems. You no doubt know far more than I about

that. You may be correct to guess that possibly some kind of mineral

imbalance or deficiency may be involved. I certainly wish you the best

in your efforts to find a solution to your health problems. My negative

posts re: hair analysis are simply to alert you [and others] to the con

artists who prey upon the sick, desperate, ofter poor and too often ill

informed. Such " practitioners " cannot have any benefit beyond placebo,

and are likely to cause more harm than good.

Again, best of luck. Be sure to deal with a reputable lab; not some

quack outfit. And let us know what you find out.

..

> Posted by: " richardtcbatty " rbatty@...

>

<mailto:rbatty@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Mineral%20deficiencies%20and%2\

0hypothyroidism>

> richardtcbatty <richardtcbatty>

>

> Thu Nov 6, 2008 9:57 am (PST)

>

> Hi ,

>

> I don't know whether hair mineral analysis is valid or not. I do

> agree with you that it is best to treat based on sound scientific

> research if possible.

>

> There does seem to be some scientific knowledge of the roles of

> certain minerals in changing cell permeability and for the conversion

> of T4 to T3. So I think it is worth a shot to try eating a high

> potassium diet and add calcium, magnesium and selenium supplements.

> It's a fairly safe, low-cost and generally health-enhancing (i.e.

> eating a high potassium diet) trial. However, I would much prefer to

> have some scientific method to know the required amounts since

> minerals work in combination.